Would you talk to the parent? How would you frame the issue? NOT a JAWM!

[38carrots]

First of all, I'm not a "kid person." I love / like mine, enjoy their every age, homeschool them even (haha) but I've only rarely been in charge of other children and I'm not a natural with other children. Children that I've met are normally friends of my kids, and normally other parents are there. And when other parents are not there, those children are instructed to listen to me, and I've never encountered any problems. Until now. (My kids are 14, 11 and 8)

 

I'm carpooling with a 10 yo girl. I take her and DD14 to the location, spend 2-3 hours there, and bring them back. The girl's mother takes DD there on alternate days, but DD does not require any supervision while there. It was implied to me that I'm not "in charge" of the child, as there's a coach there, but the coach is not spending her time 1:1 with the child and there's a lot (like 1-2 hours) of unstructured time.

 

I think the child has some (very mild) behavioral issues. Or maybe I'm being a bit too uptight about it, as I'm just not used to this behavior. (So do let me know!)

 

Examples.

 

1. I ask the child to hurry up as we need to leave (after giving several warnings--1h, 30 min, 15 min, 3 min). The child looks me in the eyes and walks towards me by making a step and pausing. Making another step. And pausing. When she finally reaches me I tell her that we really need to hurry up and jog to my car, about 60 feet. She slowly walks behind me, eating a sandwich.

 

2. I sit in a camping chair. The child decides to play a "naughty puppy" game and pushes me, tilting the chair backwards (luckily, into a wall, but still enough tilt to make me uncomfortable.) Since she is playing I decide not to be too strict, but tell her in a non-playfull, but not a mean voice, "I don't like poorly trained puppies." I smile, but I'm pretty firm. She pushes me again.

 

3. While DD is focused on something else, the child opens her thermos. DD notices and tells her that it is hers (thinking the child got their thermoses mixed up.) The child replies, "I know. I forgot mine today," and proceeds to bringing the thermos to her mouth. (DD is not cool with this and tells her, Hey, that's not cool, I already drank from it and I don't have a cup). The girl pretend she wants to drink it anyway, but then says she doesn't like what's in there (tea.)

 

4. I walk, somewhat absent mindedly, down a pretty wide path. When I glance up, I see the girl marching towards me, on a collision course. I realize that she was probably on that course before I started mine, but before I have a chance to react she forcefully pushes against me with her outstretched arm (which actually was quite painful!)

 

So this all happenned in my first 2 times carpooling with her. My observations are that I'm possibly not as playful as she expects? I think I need to be more direct with her, and instead of telling her I don't like pushy puppies, I should've told her that she needed to stop. (Please stop, I'm not playing the game with you. I did say this after her second push, and got up and left the area.) When I need to leave I probably need to come over to her and be more proactive at giving her directions about leaving, rather than just calling her over.

 

I do want for the carpool to work out. However, the above also feels like maybe too much work? Or am I spoiled by my kids who are a better match for my temperament and this is what is normal when dealing with kids this age? It is not that my kids always listen and "obey" right away, but I can't imagine them not listening to another adult in charge of them. And all the other children I spent time with listened to me a bit better than to their parents (in terms of "time go go" or "no ice-cream now" etc, typical play date scenarios).

 

DD tells me that the girl is much better behaved when her mother is there and that her mother "directs" her more. I think her mother is aware of some issues? But when I asked the mother, before we started the carpool, if there was something I needed to know (and I meant allergies etc) she told me that there was nothing that came to mind. Or maybe those are not even "issues" but typical behavior?

 

Should I talk to the mother? How to bring it up?

 

Should I stop being so uptight and play with the kid? lol

 

Not a JAWM, so please, tell me everything!

 

 

[kewb]

This is why I avoid carpools.

 

I am selfish enough that I would tell the other mom it is not working out and you will no longer be carpooling.

 

I don't think talking to the mom will get you the desired results. The mom is not there when the incidents are occurring. You are in charge and I would treat her like my own and set the expectations of behavior.

[HomeAgain]

I wouldn't tell tales, but I would tell the mom how I am dealing with the behavior.  For example, "I have informed Sally that we will be leaving at X time, and that if she chooses not to be in the car I will call you and let you know so you can come pick her up."  I will call a child on their behavior and make sure they know I'm a person of my word.

[38carrots]

This is why I avoid carpools.

 

I am selfish enough that I would tell the other mom it is not working out and you will no longer be carpooling.

 

I don't think talking to the mom will get you the desired results. The mom is not there when the incidents are occurring. You are in charge and I would treat her like my own and set the expectations of behavior.

 

Yes. But.

 

lol

 

The drive there is 1h one way. We go there 4 times a week. I have to stay there for the duration of the activity, which is 2-3 hours.

 

Even if we don't carpool, the girl and her mother are very likely to be there at the very same time.

 

It would make all sense to carpool! The idea that I can free so much of my time is delicious to me.

 

So far it is not horrible for me, just annoying and unexpected. Maybe I can deal. But I wouldn't this to escalate either.

[KungFuPanda]

Is the kid a bigger PITA than doing all of your own driving?

[38carrots]

Is the kid a bigger PITA than doing all of your own driving?

 

I guess she might become? lol

 

[38carrots]

Does it seem as behavioral issues, or just normal behavior?

[kewb]

If you find the benefits outweigh the negative then you need to take charge of the girl. She needs to know what behavior is acceptable and the consequences if she does not follow the rules and be prepared to end the car pool.

[hjffkj]

You need to set clear rules and expectations with the girl and correct her behavior when it affects you or your child. I would ignore her behavior directed at other people because that is the coaches job or the people being affected by her. So, we are leaving now so he got the car. If she doesn't, call her mom and tell her to pick her up. If that happened twice I would be done with carpool. When she is pushing your chair tell her to stop. If she doesn't I'd mention it once to mom that her dd is being disruptive and disrespectful to you and if it continues you are done with carpool. I would always give a second chance so the mom can at least have a chance at correcting the problem but if her dd doesn't listen I'd be done.

[elegantlion]

I would be horrified if my child was touching another adult in that manner. The other stuff might be teasing that may be appropriate in her household. This is one reason we didn't do carpools either. I would talk to mom about the pokey nature and the shoving with her arm, the other stuff I would speak to the child about directly. If the shoving happened again, I would discontinue the carpool. 

[Pink and Green Mom]

I would tell the girl that she is expected to keep her hands to herself, and her hands off DD's food/thermos (I would keep DDs stuff on the front passenger seat or in the trunk to avoid all temptation). I would be very direct and forceful (because your playful tone in the naughty puppy game seems to not have been understood).  The taking a step and then stopping when you are in a rush is so obnoxious that I would seriously consider whether this carpool is worth my energy or not.  For me, it would not.  I would find a gym to join at the destination, workout, read, shop, whatever, during that time if I had to go every day but I would rather that than dealing with this girl 2x week.

 

I don't think the situation is going to improve. At all.  It may not get worse but I doubt it will get better.

[KungFuPanda]

"Hey Kid's Mom, here is what has happened _______, ________, and _________. I am not equipped to deal with defiant children. If Kid doesn't start behaving and showing some respect I'm going to have to dissolve this carpool."

 

Then the kid improves (within reason) or you end the carpool. It's not an easy conversation to have, but it is very simple.

 

ETA: I think it's a courtesy to the parents to keep them in the loop. I appreciate people keeping me in the loop. I never want to hear that a situation has become unmanageable the first time I hear about it. If I'm watching a kid, tell them not to do something, and they stop I don't "report" them. However, a pattern of disrespect needs to be discussed. Honestly, I haven't had to do this too often, but when I have the parents have responded admirably and have even offered very helpful suggestions for managing their children.

Edited December 23, 2015 by KungFuPanda

[Guest]

I would just tell her to stop in a simple and direct way. Then when I dropped her off, I'd briefly let her mom know "Suzy was pushing my chair so I told her to stop."

 

It doesn't matter overmuch if it's "normal" behavior or not. Nor that the mother "directs" her child more than you do. You're over-thinking it imho.

 

 

But if you REALLY want to know what I'd do LOL, I never would have signed up for a 2 hour drive 4 times a week :-D

[bolt.]

I'd start with a direct-to-child strategy before bringing in parents.

 

1. With the child: I don't think you are less playful than she expects... I think you are less directive than she expects. She doesn't seem to know when you are serious, and when there is leeway. All of her behaviors are 'leeway checks', and you haven't given her enough information, so she keeps checking. I'd be direct and clear with her, avoiding cheerful voice markers that add confusion between an instruction and encouragement/cajoling. I'd use concrete words and short clear sentences, with a flat tone, good eye contact, and a straight face. Like, "Don't push me. Pushing hurts." / "Move faster." / "You are making a mistake." / "Stop x immediately. / "You need to follow my instructions."

 

2. Using the phone: Say to the child, "I'm sure your parents expect you to follow my instructions when you are with me. Do you want me to phone and check? I think your mom will probably tell you to stop doodling and get in the car when I tell you to. Do you think so?" Probably the 'threat' will be enough. If it's not, I'd call and say, "Hey, Sally, I know this is completely normal, but Suzy is checking to see what I will do if she intentionally slows down every time I ask her to do something quickly. I told her that I'd call confirm that you really do expect her to follow my instructions about car pooling when she's with me, so I'm calling mostly to show her that I really will call... Of course. Yep, totally normal kid stuff... Ok, so maybe I'll hand her the phone and she can hear it from you? Perfect."

 

3. Direct to parent: causal or serious discussions as previous posters have been brainstorming.

Edited December 23, 2015 by bolt.

[luuknam]

It sounds like maybe the girl is bored? Does she even want to be there? Why is there so much unstructured time?

 

I can't comment on whether it's normal or not, as my oldest is an 8yo boy with high-functioning autism, so not normal by definition.

[SKL]

First I would be more firm with the girl.  Tell her "we are driving away in 3 minutes" and go sit in your car.  Tell her "do not push me, thank you."  The thermos thing was not worth any fuss IMO.

 

If she doesn't shape up, tell her you are going to have to tell her mom next time.

 

If that doesn't work, tell her mom.

 

If that doesn't work, stop the carpool.

[Miss Tick]

speak firmly and matter-of-factly, don't engage playfully. Explain the rules of behaviour in your family (when I say it is time to go, we don't mess around, we go. Save that behavior for when your mom is driving). You want the carpool to work out, but you have to find the behavior balance so it doesn't become a burden.

 

Just after saying you should expect child to operate by your rules when you are in charge, now I'm going to suggest that you might try bribing with food on the way home. Haha. It sounds like you may need some kind of carrot to dangle.

 

Mom may not see enough other kids to see her dd's behavior as unusual.

 

At 10 I would expect all behavior to be negotiated between you and the child.

 

You could consider offering to pay the other mom to do all the driving...

[zoobie]

Be direct and firm with the child. You don't have to be smiley and playful when she's being obnoxious.

 

Stop. Hands off my chair.

 

We are leaving. If you're not in the car, I can call your mother to come get you. (Then turn around and walk to the car. Your maintaining eye contact is engaging her.)

 

Put the cup down. (I'd actually defer first to DD to handle that unless she weren't around.)

 

I don't know if she has behavior issues or a lack of respect. If she continues being a PITA with you being direct, I'd talk to mom before dissolving carpool.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think I'd feel the same way as you in this situation.  Her behavior doesn't strike me as terrible and outrageous, but yes it would annoy me a bit.

 

But then I guess you have to consider if it doesn't just mostly boil down to not wanting to engage with the child at all. I don't know if it is reasonable to expect her to just be seen and not heard.  And I totally get it because admittedly I'm not the most social person.  And also not a "kid" person.  So I wouldn't even want to do something like this in the first place.  Maybe that is also how you feel?

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

I wanted to add that my typical first response is light and playful. I prefer to spare a child's feelings if I can. However, after speaking to a parent, I learned that her child didn't respond to kind suggestions. She needed direct, firm instruction. She needed to be TOLD what to do, not asked. This was not a sensitive kid that was going to cry if I was very serious with her. She was a tough, boundary pushing kid who responded VERY well to clear, no-nonsense speech and expectations. It took a conversation with her mother to learn this and once I had the information the child and I were both happier and our relationship improved.

 

This all happened when the child was nine or ten. She's 15 now, is still a frequent visitor in my home, and is a delightful young lady. I haven't had to 'manage' her behavior in YEARS.

[Wheres Toto]

You said you don't need to supervise your child there - are you staying at the activity for all that time just to supervise the other child?  You were told you weren't "in charge" of her there so can you go somewhere else - a coffee shop, library, whatever - for the time of the activity?  If the deal was just for car pooling, that's all I would worry about - the drive back and forth.

 

Is she just hanging out waiting while your daughter finishes up at the end? or is she the one finishing up? or both?  The warnings sound like she's just hanging out waiting at that point.  I'd take her out to the car 15 minutes early and have your daughter meet you out there, if she can't move faster when it's time.

 

[Guest]

In my experiences in teaching kids, most (barring those who have known issues that the parents are working on) kids that act like that do it because they get away with doing it at home. I teach Pre K at church, and in the adjoining classroom they have the craft/missions part of the lesson. The teacher in there has two kids who are currently in my/our class. She brings her three along with two neighbor kids to church every Wednesday. Her two, but the older one especially, is downright a pain some times.

 

Examples:

 

She knows that we like the kids to guess the topic by being given clues. She will go look at her mom's paper, then come tell me she knows what it is. I will tell her nicely that she needs to keep it to herself so she doesn't take away the fun for everyone else. She will say ok, then before we even get one clue out, she blurts out the answer.

 

There is a rule that any food or drink brought in gets put up once the lesson time starts. She will try to put her drinks that she brings next to her on the floor during circle time. I will let her know I am putting it up, and reiterate the rules. She will give me this snotty death stare, or try to sneak away to get it.

 

The worst was when she looked at a child (whom she has known for years) that has a very obvious facial deformity, and with a smirk, asked him what was wrong with his face. Thankfully his friend from school was sitting there and said there wasn't anything wrong with him, God makes everyone different. I said "Yeh, He made C awesome." It got a smile out of him, but I immediately took her out of the room and let her know that it wasn't ok, and that her mom WOULD find out what she said.

 

I told the youth director, and the mother was made aware of the behaviour of the child. The youth director made it a point to walk through the classroom periodically, just so she could see it for herself before she said something. The mother now makes them come in and sit down to eat their dinner before class, and tries to get them to behave, but it is still obvious that she is a burnt out mom who just can't make them listen so she has given up trying. I would be mortified if someone had had to come to me to tell me my child was acting like that. Unfortunately, the majority of parents don't want to hear it, and will get defensive when you bring it up.

[38carrots]

You said you don't need to supervise your child there - are you staying at the activity for all that time just to supervise the other child?  You were told you weren't "in charge" of her there so can you go somewhere else - a coffee shop, library, whatever - for the time of the activity?  If the deal was just for car pooling, that's all I would worry about - the drive back and forth.

 

Is she just hanging out waiting while your daughter finishes up at the end? or is she the one finishing up? or both?  The warnings sound like she's just hanging out waiting at that point.  I'd take her out to the car 15 minutes early and have your daughter meet you out there, if she can't move faster when it's time.

 

I have nowhere to go there. At best I can drive for 20 min to a coffee shop. This adds the total of 40 min of driving per day, so I prefer to stay there.

[Wheres Toto]

I have nowhere to go there. At best I can drive for 20 min to a coffee shop. This adds the total of 40 min of driving per day, so I prefer to stay there.

 

Well that stinks, but I've been known to sit out in my car with a book during dd's dance classes.

[Seasider]

I would be horrified if my child was touching another adult in that manner. The other stuff might be teasing that may be appropriate in her household. This is one reason we didn't do carpools either. I would talk to mom about the pokey nature and the shoving with her arm, the other stuff I would speak to the child about directly. If the shoving happened again, I would discontinue the carpool.

I agree with this. I would speak clearly to the mom to let her know that I will be correcting the daughter's behavior (the pushing and shoving in particular). Perhaps she will then say no more carpooling. If the carpool continues, let the three strikes and you're out rule apply.

 

I personally could probably not continue with the carpooling arrangement if the mother gave me the vibe (or flat out stated) that her child didn't have to follow my directions. During the time that she is not supervised directly by someone in charge of the activity, who is (legally?) responsible for her? If she does this puppy play with some other kid and breaks an arm, are you going to be held responsible? Something to think about.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would be horrified if my child was touching another adult in that manner. The other stuff might be teasing that may be appropriate in her household. This is one reason we didn't do carpools either. I would talk to mom about the pokey nature and the shoving with her arm, the other stuff I would speak to the child about directly. If the shoving happened again, I would discontinue the carpool. 

 

Although if she is used to that in her own household, why would she necessarily know that not everyone goes for that? 

[bolt.]

Can I ask what kind of activity this is with 2h driving, 2h unstructured time, and only 1h of structure, 4 days a week? It must be really worthwhile, or you wouldn't be doing it, but it sounds like only 1 out of 5 hours is actually of-value? Unless the unstructured time is has equipment provided or something?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Ultimately, I'd consider the problem to be me.  I don't want to hang out with a kid who does these things because I don't like these things.  BUT, I really do not think she is doing anything terrible at all. 

 

Even the part about her not hurrying to leave.  That is quite typical for a kid that age.  They really do not yet have our sense of urgency.  My 10 year old does exactly the same thing.

 

 

[QueenCat]

Does it seem as behavioral issues, or just normal behavior?

 

Not normal...... she is displaying obnoxious behavior and it doesn't sound like it comes from a disability. As far as the not coming when you say it's time to go, the mere fact that she looks you in the eye as she delays herself tells me it's obnoxious and not the normal child dawdling that many kids do.

Edited December 23, 2015 by QueenCat

[Seasider]

Not normal...... she is displaying obnoxious behavior and it doesn't sound like it comes from a disability. As far as the not coming when you say it's time to go, the mere fact that she looks you in the eye as she delays herself tells me it's obnoxious and not the normal child dawdling that many kids do.

I'm agreeing with not normal (having raised four past the age of ten). In fact, at age ten, none of mine would have put up with this sort of behavior from anyone they hung out with.

[Anne in CA]

The behavior is slightly controlling. She is trying to set the tone that she is in charge of you. She is not playful IMO. She is not evil. She is a kid who is testing limits, and you are unsure how to make kind limits because you are not comfortable with the situation. I would definitely work with her and her mother on these things one at a time. Being on time is important to me and I have one kid who has no sense of urgency and that is something I would nicely talk to the mom about. It will take work, but it can be done. She is trying to "be the boss of you", lol. You will have more work to straighten it out than might be necessary, but I think that if you are firm she will straighten out and be fine. You are going to have to have boundaries with her that other kids might not need, but that's okay. She is someone who tests limits. You need to have firm ones. I think this can be fine if you just work on it a little bit every trip and clearly communicate with her mom. If you talk to her mother and nothing happens I would not carpool because if the behavior escalates you will have more trouble than you can handle.

[38carrots]

So DD just texted me. The girl literally almost tripped her by running in front of her through the door, while DD was entering, carrying heavy bags. DD said, "That's not nice." The girl replied with "Ha-ha, silly DD. Haven't you learned by now that I'm rude?"

 

DD replied saying "I don't hang out with rude people." I hope she didn't sound too abrasive, but as stated, seems like a good firm response?

 

When I was 10, I had a 14 year old friend. There's no way I'd be rude like this to her. No way.

 

The sad thing is, even if we don't carpool, we'll be there at the same time. :-(

[Garga]

I am curious about what the activity is, too.

 

The kid sounds really bored. Bored, bored, bored. The behavoir is soooo obnoxious! It would drive me crazy. It would completely set me on edge. Never knowing when your chair will be pushed over? Or you will be pushed over when you're walking? Or when someone will drink out of your cup? Or will shuffle along when you have to go quickly?

 

I would be having very not-nice thoughts about the little girl. :( I am not a kid person either for the most part. I wasn't that kind of kid and I do NOT understand that kind of kid.

 

But...how to deal with it.

 

1. Laying down of some rules. These rules will change as the little girl comes up with new ways to push your buttons. Here are some rules: "Do not touch anyone else." Or, if you want to be specific if it's an event where the kids touch each other (gymnastics or something), "Do not touch me. Do not touch my DD." "Do not touch other people's things," re: the thermos. "Come quickly when I tell you it's time to go."

 

Talk about the rules in the car before the event.

 

2. Don't let things go. Right now you're setting the bar. If you let some things slide sometimes, she'll have not clear rules and she'll flounder around never knowing if she's acting ok or not. So, next time she does some crazy thing that you didn't anticipate, immediately say, "New rule: Do not throw your trash all around my car." Don't let bad behavior go at all. Later, you can loosen up if you like, but for now, she needs to know her boundaries.

 

3. When correcting her, be firm but not mean. Be impassive. Not jokey, not friendly, not mean. Just state the rules without emotion.

 

4. Catch her doing right. Don't be flowery about it, but notice it. "Thanks for throwing the trash in the trash can." Do not overdo the praise. Just quietly notice. "You got ready very quickly." Some things you can't really speak to, "Thank you for not pushing me today..." but some things you can, so if you can, notice the good behavior. From time to time you can add a "good job." "You got ready very quickly. Good job." But not too much. Some people get perverse about praise and derail it. Just simply notice when she's doing right and not only when she's doing wrong.

 

5. I'd try a couple more trips with your rules in place before talking to her mom. If she doesn't improve at all, then you'll have to reassess, and perhaps bring mom on board. I don't know yet. It's too soon.

 

I think it'll be a bit of a long road with her. I think you will need to actively teach her the correct behavior and it might take a while. So...clear boundaries and catch her doing right.

[Alessandra]

I'd talk to the other mother. She may have some good strategies and also can talk to her dd.

 

The girl needs to know that ultimately you have the power, because you can decide not to carpool. Then the girl will face some kind of consequences when her mom has to drive x times per week.

[38carrots]

Can I ask what kind of activity this is with 2h driving, 2h unstructured time, and only 1h of structure, 4 days a week? It must be really worthwhile, or you wouldn't be doing it, but it sounds like only 1 out of 5 hours is actually of-value? Unless the unstructured time is has equipment provided or something?

 

It is totally worthwhile to DD. As for the girl, I don't know. She is not spending her time productively.

[Seasider]

What is the activity?

[Catwoman]

So DD just texted me. The girl literally almost tripped her by running in front of her through the door, while DD was entering, carrying heavy bags. DD said, "That's not nice." The girl replied with "Ha-ha, silly DD. Haven't you learned by now that I'm rude?"

 

DD replied saying "I don't hang out with rude people." I hope she didn't sound too abrasive, but as stated, seems like a good firm response?

 

When I was 10, I had a 14 year old friend. There's no way I'd be rude like this to her. No way.

 

The sad thing is, even if we don't carpool, we'll be there at the same time. :-(

Your dd did the right thing. I think you should take the example from her and stop being such a softie to that girl. You are the adult and you are in charge. Act like it!

 

Definitely speak with the mom about the situation. If she seems cooperative and will insist that her dd behave properly, give the carpooling thing another shot (and I only suggest that because it sounds like you really want this to work.) If she's as obnoxious as her dd, tell her the carpooling isn't going to work out.

 

I think the problem here is that you are being way too nice and accommodating to a very rude and obnoxious child. If her own mom wants to put up with that kind of garbage, that's her business, but you certainly don't have to deal with it.

 

You are much nicer than I am, because I would have demanded the behavior stop after the first incident.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Catwoman

[GinaPagnato]

Just as a straight answer to your direct question:

 

No, I don't think this is normal behavior. Whether she has some sort of disability or is just plain obnoxious, I can't say. But it's not normal inasmuch as no 10 year old that I've ever raised, nor that I've been around, would act this way UNLESS they have developmental issues or plain old bad behavior.

[Soror]

I wouldn't talk to the mom until after I had tried and failed at correcting the behavior since you are with her for so long I think it should be expected that you will need to do some disciplining of each other's kids. You've already tried the playful and gentle approach, obviously that is not working, I would try the firm, gentle and insistent method and if that didn't work I'd talk to the mom.

[Garga]

Too bad she's not your child.

 

I think the book "The Five Love Languages" is often pretty spot on. There are 5 different ways people feel loved. For most people one of the 5 ways is their primary way to feel loved and the other 4 don't do much for them. Here they are:

 

If you speak kind/affirming words to them

If you give them presents

If you do things for them (taking out the trash, etc.)

If you spend a lot of time with them

 

And

 

Physical touch.

 

The book says that sometimes people who feel loved by physical touch are the sort of people who will playfully push someone when they're walking by. Or tickle them. Or pull on their pigtail in school.

 

One of my sons is like this. I will reach over and (gently) scratch at his stomach and he looooves it. If we're sitting side by side, I'll lean over and bump him and make him fall over. He just loves it! I also hold his hand a lot and give him hugs and ruffle his hair. He completely lights up.

 

It's a long shot, but with all the physical touching she's doing, I wonder if she's somehow trying to connect with you? And all she knows is that she wants to touch somehow and doesn't know how to do it appropriately?

 

Unfortunately, you can't really touch her because she's not your kid, so you can't test it out. I wonder if a pat on the shoulder would help. Like, if you're telling her a rule, place a hand gently on her shoulder and say, "When it's time to go, you'll need to move as quickly as you can."

 

Maybe it shouldn't be a rule not to touch you. Maybe you could put your hand on her shoulder and say, "If you touch someone, make sure it won't hurt them--don't push their chair or push them or walk in front of them. Be gentle." Telling a person whose love language is touch not to touch might not work. Maybe she needs to be taught how to touch.

 

I could be completely wrong. She might move away from you and haaaate being touched. It could go either way. If it were me, I think I'd try the shoulder thing. Only a shoulder though, or upper arm at the most and very gently.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Garga

[Paige]

I would parent her like my own child in the moment. You are being far too nice and and she's not a toddler or preschooler. If she does not respond to your directions, I would talk to the parent. I'd say something like, "I really want this carpool thing to work out, but I'm having trouble with Sweetie not listening when we need to leave and being rude. Can you help?" If the mom is a reasonable person, she'll apologize, give you some tips for how to deal with Sweetie's behavior, and talk to Sweetie herself about it. 

 

If the mom is not a reasonable person, she'll be offended and defensive and it will become obvious that the carpool won't work. Which, IMO, isn't too terrible. I wouldn't want my DD in the car for 2 hours several days a week with people who can't be reasonable. At least you'd know something's off with them before your DD spends months suffering with them.

[katilac]

I have nowhere to go there. At best I can drive for 20 min to a coffee shop. This adds the total of 40 min of driving per day, so I prefer to stay there.

 

I would leave the direct area at a minimum, walk away to read or whatever, maybe go to the coffee shop once or twice to establish that I am NOT watching her. 

 

Reading your follow-up post, I see that this won't solve the problem for your dd. I would speak very directly to the girl AND to her mother at this point. Personally, less driving would not be worth the headache of dealing with this girl if her behavior doesn't resolve. The activity is either worth me driving or not. Yes, she will still be there, but I have no problem telling annoying kids that they are not to hang out with me, lol. 

Can I ask what kind of activity this is with 2h driving, 2h unstructured time, and only 1h of structure, 4 days a week?  

 

Inquiring minds want to know...

[Excelsior! Academy]

Does it seem as behavioral issues, or just normal behavior?

 

Both.  Neurotypical, but annoying nonetheless.

 

I would just tell her to stop in a simple and direct way. Then when I dropped her off, I'd briefly let her mom know "Suzy was pushing my chair so I told her to stop."

 

It doesn't matter overmuch if it's "normal" behavior or not. Nor that the mother "directs" her child more than you do. You're over-thinking it imho.

 

 

But if you REALLY want to know what I'd do LOL, I never would have signed up for a 2 hour drive 4 times a week :-D

 

Yes!  

 

It sounds like maybe the girl is bored? Does she even want to be there? Why is there so much unstructured time?

 

I can't comment on whether it's normal or not, as my oldest is an 8yo boy with high-functioning autism, so not normal by definition.

 

Bolded.

 

First I would be more firm with the girl.  Tell her "we are driving away in 3 minutes" and go sit in your car.  Tell her "do not push me, thank you."  The thermos thing was not worth any fuss IMO.

 

If she doesn't shape up, tell her you are going to have to tell her mom next time.

 

If that doesn't work, tell her mom.

 

If that doesn't work, stop the carpool.

 

This.

 

 

 

 

I haven't read the thread in its entirety.  Be kind, but firm with the child.  She isn't awful, but is certainly looking for boundaries.  Say, "Child, we do not allow that.  We do x and when you are with me you will too."  And mean it.

[Garga]

So DD just texted me. The girl literally almost tripped her by running in front of her through the door, while DD was entering, carrying heavy bags. DD said, "That's not nice." The girl replied with "Ha-ha, silly DD. Haven't you learned by now that I'm rude?"

 

DD replied saying "I don't hang out with rude people." I hope she didn't sound too abrasive, but as stated, seems like a good firm response?

 

When I was 10, I had a 14 year old friend. There's no way I'd be rude like this to her. No way.

 

The sad thing is, even if we don't carpool, we'll be there at the same time. :-(

Try giving her lots of things to do: Instead of just your DD carrying bags, so does the other girl. You can't help when you're not there, but when it's your turn to drive, give that little girl active things to do. Edited December 23, 2015 by Garga

[38carrots]

Your dd did the right thing. I think you should take the example from her and stop being such a softie to that girl. You are the adult and you are in charge. Act like it!

 

Definitely speak with the mom about the situation. If she seems cooperative and will insist that her dd behave properly, give the carpooling thing another shot (and I only suggest that because it sounds like you really want this to work.) If she's as obnoxious as her dd, tell her the carpooling isn't going to work out.

 

I think the problem here is that you are being way too nice and accommodating to a very rude and obnoxious child. If her own mom wants to put up with that kind of garbage, that's her business, but you certainly don't have to deal with it.

 

You are much nicer than I am, because I would have demanded the behavior stop after the first incident.

 

Her mom seems very nice and sensible, but I don't know her well at all. She messaged me about possibly carpooling when she found out there were other homeschoolers going there. The first day we all went in her car, so I talked to her for a couple of hours. I rather like her, but again, I don't know her well. Since then she took DD 4 times, and I took her DD twice.

 

I think I'll try to be much more direct with the kid.

 

A big part of my parenting, when the kids were little, is not to be overly direct. I trained myself not to say "Share your toys, please," but to say "It seems to be that little Bobby is sad that he hadn't had his turn for a while." I guess that was the fad in the attachment parenting / gentle discipline circles. I think it worked really well for my kids. I tend to say "I don't like this" instead of "Stop this" (well mostly. I guess in an emegency I wouldn't hesitate to say to stop something.)

 

But I see that this child needs me to be much more direct.

 

[Garga]

Also, I think the little girl has something going on. My son has ADHD and we do give him medicine. When he doesn't have his meds, he is sooooo difficult to handle. It's so draining.

 

This is a little funny thing, but when I watched it, I was in a bit of shock (link below). It is *exactly* how my son was with his ADHD before we gave him meds. The little girl might not have ADHD, but kids with *something* going on are really hard to work with. You just have to constantly (constantly) be on your toes around them and constantly redirect them.

 

If you're up for the challenge, you can make things better with the little girl, but you'll have to actively handle the issues.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NkPMRx2SFp4

[kitten18]

Does it seem as behavioral issues, or just normal behavior?

I'm a laid back parent and we are very playful with our kids.

I could describe my ds(10) and a "poorly trained puppy". Lol

And yet, he would NEVER do the things you described.

[Leav97]

So DD just texted me. The girl literally almost tripped her by running in front of her through the door, while DD was entering, carrying heavy bags. DD said, "That's not nice." The girl replied with "Ha-ha, silly DD. Haven't you learned by now that I'm rude?"

 

DD replied saying "I don't hang out with rude people." I hope she didn't sound too abrasive, but as stated, seems like a good firm response?

 

When I was 10, I had a 14 year old friend. There's no way I'd be rude like this to her. No way.

 

The sad thing is, even if we don't carpool, we'll be there at the same time. :-(

 

DDs response was good.  IMHO, let her be abrasive.  Don't bully the kid but be very blunt that you will not take crap from her.

 

The next time she pulls the moving really slow, "I see you're having a hard time listening.  I'll call your Mom to come pick you up."  Then call her Mom and let her deal with it.  I'm betting Mom doesn't want to drive an hour to pick her up.

[Julie Smith]

Now I'm really curious, what is the activity?

[JumpyTheFrog]

Garga has some good advice in post 34. You have to make it impossible for this girl to control you with her bad behavior.