Can you help me work thru these feelings, or, Chris breaks down in the car

[Chris in VA]

LOL--

 

Well, not really LOL, but you kinda have to, sometimes.

 

Backstory (short and sweet, hopefully):

 

When a family member came home from residential treatment (this is years ago), we really needed time to rebond. I became resentful of a "friend" and her son who kept inviting Family Member over for dinners out, special festivals/outings, etc. She wanted a friend for her son, who had issues. FM were not good together historically--got into trouble together, etc. Several months after FM came home, use started again, exacerbated by reintroduction of substances by friend's son. So, anger on my part. I do realize it probably would've happened anyway.

 

I was "triggered" by a conversation the other day--and cried about it, so I think I'm still angry for the past. FM says friend and son have invited Fm over for Christmas dinner. We are eating around 2 ish, but still. WHO DOES THAT?

 

I feel like they want FM to be their FM.

 

I don't want to share.

 

How do I heal this hurt, anger, resentfulness, etc.? I am prob going to do a traumatic incident reduction exercise with it, but in the meantime...I need to let it go, but honestly, I am not ready to just "let it go."

 

There's just so darned much baggage to keep unpacking with ten years of stuff.

 

 

[marbel]

:grouphug: :grouphug:   I'm sorry.  I don't know what to say, can't offer anything at all except :grouphug: :grouphug:

[applethyme]

_{:grouphug:  :grouphug: :grouphug:}  

[Laurie4b]

The Christmas dinner invite would make me mad, too.  And I would be uncomfortable with that relationship. Sorry for all that you've been through.  :grouphug:

 

 

[happi duck]

(Hugs)

[Catwoman]

I'm not sure you should let it go. You have every right to be hurt and angry.

[Annie G]

Don't think I could let that go.  I'd be a bundle of emotions, all mixed up like some kind of hodgepodge leftover soup. 

 

:grouphug:

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Carol in Cal.]

It is weird to invite someone who lives with or near their family over for Christmas, particularly without including the rest of the family.  You have every right to be annoyed, even without the history.  WITH the history, ugh.

[J-rap]

I'm sorry.  :grouphug:  

 

We just had a vaguely similar thing happen, with one more distant family member inviting a couple closer family members on an exotic trip all expenses paid over the holidays.  I can't compete with that!  Granted, I would have been tempted to accept the invitation too ;) (sounds really fun!), and also, I do think that this more distant family member suffers from some personality issues where he just can't see the bigger picture.  I guess it helps a little to know that!

[Tsuga]

I don't know, but with the substance abuse issues I think that you are legitimately breaking down over something very scary and sad and I'm sorry you're facing this. It's not merely possessiveness in this case, it's fear for what-ifs.  :grouphug:

[mamiof5]

Christmas dinner?? What?? Hmm...no. Don't even thinking about the history behind it. And I'd definitely talk to FM...probably not a relationship that he/she would like to continue :(

[liber]

I guess talking to the friends mom is out of the question? She sounds clueless or thoughtless.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I understand the feelings.  But FM is an adult, right?  I mean, I can't imagine even as a  young adult taking it kindly if my mother tried to interfere with my social life.  That said, I don't know from the OP if when FM mentioned this, it was in the context of him trying to get a read on what you thought or if he was informing you of a decision that he's made to accept their invitation. 

[Arcadia]

:grouphug:

A girlfriend's uncle (dad's brother) drag her dad down for substance abuse so that he gets a lighter jail sentence for drug trafficking. Both her dad, uncle and uncle's wife are drug addicts. Her uncle's kids were born with drug withdrawal syndrome and congenital defects requiring surgery.

 

I can understand the yucky feeling.

[Harriet Vane]

Have you ever told this awful, horrible person just how insensitive they are? Perhaps you should? Because honestly, users should not be friends with users.

 

(I understand that mentoring is different, but it doesn't sound like FM is at the stage to do that. Also, I wouldn't necessarily recommend that someone still shaky in their recovery attempt to mentor a drug-buddy. Too much history.)

 

:grouphug:

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

I have nothing helpful to say so just hugs

[Chris in VA]

Thanks for commiserating.

 

FM told me FM accepted the invite. I am not fearful of the same thing happening as before--I'm just hurt, I think, and angry that this other family keeps intruding on OUR time. It is hard, because I do feel compassion of sorts for the other family (I'm being purposely vague). I only get 3 days with FM and I knew FM would want to see "son," but shoot. I just wish they would have invited FM over the next day, you know? It's stinkin' Christmas. They will have a huge dinner, probably with lobster and steak and anything else you can possibly imagine. No kidding. FM says "don't compare" but I'm not comparing, and I'm not competing (we have a nice dinner, too), but I just want them to move out of the country or something. It's just baggage and I'm trying to accept what I can't change and having a hard time with it. Yes, FM is an adult, and no, I'm not mad about not being invited--not at all. I see these people on Sundays (well, the rest of the family, as the mom and son don't come anymore) and I do honestly care about them, but it's just so insensitive and I have no control--maybe that's what is bugging me, too.  IDK.

 

Thanks for listening.

[Harriet Vane]

Chris, inviting your son away from his family on Christmas is rude and insensitive. FM's choice to accept the invitation is also insensitive. You have every reason to be hurt. I think it's okay to say so, as well. 

 

The family in question should know better, but clearly they do not. It's okay to tell them it hurts not to have your beloved child with you on the holiday.

 

Teens and young adults sometimes do things that are stupid or insensitive. It's okay to tell FM how this hurts.

 

:grouphug:

[bettyandbob]

Yes it's rude. These people know FM has a family (you) that he is visiting. They know families have Christmas traditions.

 

Their invitation should have been more open ended: "stop by over your visit" or come by after you have dinner with your parents " without specifying times and without taking the main meal.

 

I'm sorry this happened. I hope you enjoy the visit anyway.

[creekland]

Can't think of much to offer for suggestions.  Just sending tons of  :grouphug: .  It really is the pits and it's ok to feel hurt by it.  I wish it were something easy to fix.

[Garga]

I'd be pretty upset, too, and I tend to try to step back and see things logically or try to "see all sides" rather than indulge in my feelings 

 

But Christmas is different.  I'd be so sad if my FM chose to visit with people who had led them down a dark road in the past, rather than me.  I can see how FM might not have the maturity to understand that, but I would still be deeply sad inside.  I don't think I could logic this sadness away, or "see all sides".

 

I wish I could make you feel better. 

Edited December 11, 2015 by Garga

[bettyandbob]

Just throwing this out there... not trying to dismiss feelings or points made.

 

Maybe they don't know that Christmas night is a big deal. Maybe they think by then he's already spent Christmas Eve and Christmas morning/afternoon with you. In my family growing up we were "done" with all our things by Christmas night. I think we used to sometimes go to the movies that night.

 

However, it sounds like they should ask and not assume. Clearly their "big" thing is on Christmas night so it should cross their mind. Did they have a conversation with FM like, "what are you doing Christmas night?" FM says something like, "I don't have anything planned" and they say, "come over and eat with us"? I am just trying to think of ways this could have happened that don't sound so menacing. FM is perhaps the clueless one. I urge you to talk to FM if you haven't expressed how you feel.

This family has to know the OPs schedule. They attend her church where her dh is Rector. One only needs to know the service schedule to know how " family " time is set over Christmas. It sounds like this family has been there for years. I'd have a hard time believing that they couldn't know this is when OPs family celebrates together. OPs dh has to working all of Christmas Eve and Christmas morning.

 

So, early afternoon Christmas Day would be the first they could relax together

[ErinE]

I'm of two minds. If it was a healthy relationship, I would be a bit disappointed, but I'd remind myself I had morning and lunch with FM and FM is an adult. With the relationship as you described, my fear for FM's well-being would be the primary emotion, and I would be as upset as you are.

[Guest]

Truthfully I think waiting until Christmas night is very considerate of them. That gives you Christmas Eve and morning. I'm usually well and sick of my family by then.

 

I'm sorry this is bothering you so much, it sounds like it is more baggage than this one incident in particular. The enabling and drug issue is troubling but that's not always such an issue for everyone be down the road, you know? That really, really depends. If you were certain this would prompt family member into using again I can see the upset and it makes more sense than just a Christmas dinner. That's kind of overly intense for one meal after the holidays have concluded.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Arctic Mama

[QueenCat]

I'd probably find a way to talk to your FM and find a way to show him that you are hurt without showing anger. More tears than anything.

[myfunnybunch]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I get it, Chris.

 

I would be hurt too. I know there's probably not really any other gracious response to the situation beyond acknowledging that the others are adults and will make their choices. They probably don't realize they're being insensitive. But it still stinks being on the hurting end of it, especially when there are old hurts underneath.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

[Chris in VA]

Truthfully I think waiting until Christmas night is very considerate of them. That gives you Christmas Eve and morning. I'm usually well and sick of my family by then.

 

I'm sorry this is bothering you so much, it sounds like it is more baggage than this one incident in particular. The enabling and drug issue is troubling but that's not always such an issue for everyone be down the road, you know? That really, really depends. If you were certain this would prompt family member into using again I can see the upset and it makes more sense than just a Christmas dinner. That's kind of overly intense for one meal after the holidays have concluded.

 

I have to disagree that it is very considerate.  (And I do so, with appreciation for your perspective--this is my "back" to your "forth"--yknow, "back and forth" conversation.)

 

It really has nothing to do with prompting use.

 

Christmas is for family. Not for friends. (Not saying I wouldn't ever invite a friend over for Christmas dinner, but I wouldn't split a family up to have that friend over, or expect, really, to see that friend if they only had a very limited time. I might suggest lunch or something. ANd not ON the holiday.) The holiday isn't concluded in the evening, it's still going on!

 

I would be totally ok with the next day. Maybe WE'D like to go to the movies, or play a board game, or do something together Christmas evening. They didn't even think we might like a whole friggin' day together. We only get 3. Why does it have to be Christmas day?

 

They didn't even ask what time WE eat. We hadn't really decided what time to eat, but I told FM (after he'd accepted the invite) that we could eat a little earlier. I didn't really feel the resentment until I thought about it, because TBH I'm just learning how to not give up everything when asked.

 

Yes, agree there's lots of baggage.

 

Sorry--still stuck in the suck.

 

Oh, and dh has all of Christmas day--he takes the Tgiving service so he can have Christmas Day completely off (his assistant does the am Christmas service b/c she doesn't have kids). But still--he'd like ALL day with his family, as would I.

 

[Chris in VA]

It is weird to invite someone who lives with or near their family over for Christmas, particularly without including the rest of the family.  You have every right to be annoyed, even without the history.  WITH the history, ugh.

 

Not the case. Trying to vague it up, but not this FM.

[Kim in Appalachia]

:grouphug:

 

I would be very angry.  I'm so sorry that they were so inconsiderate, as well as your son.  Children have the power to hurt you more than anyone else.  :grouphug:

[Chris in VA]

I'm not that hurt by FM (haven't said it's my son, though I haven't said it isn't...dun dun dunnnnn....) accepting invite.

I just wish FM hadn't been asked.

Like, "leave us alone."

 

(I think I'm feeling a bit better. DUN DUN DUNNNNNN,,,, :001_unsure: ,)

[Murphy101]

I'd be ticked too. Christmas is a time for FAMILY. I would try to gently explain to my family member that this is extremely hurtful to me bc of that and bc we already get so little time with them and now they won't even be here for the holiday.

 

After that, yeah I'd greatly dislike those other people and I sure wouldn't think of them as friends for interfering in my family, but the family member in question is the one making the choice to go along with it and that's what I'd actually find the most hurtful.

[Chris in VA]

I think FM is trying to please everyone. That's a hard spot.

[Guest]

But Chris, holding so tightly to these days as somehow special and cordoned off for family, aside from their basic purpose, is causing you stress and grief. Changing your perspective would fix the issue with *no* drama. Elevating this as a family only 36 hour thing (Christmas Eve to the next midnight) and therefore justifying getting upset about a dinner invite isn't really rational or productive, and moreover it is hurting you.

 

Getting over it, if only for your own sake, is the least problematic course from here. And without knowing the epic baggage, plenty of people like me would have zero issue inviting a friend or even a child's friend over for a late day meal. I mean, who cares? It's just not a big deal. It would seriously weird me out if someone flipped out over not spending every moment of the day together. It sounds like this is weird and longstanding, but I really don't mind another family wanting to semi-adopt my child or parent. Why would I? More connection and community isn't somehow threatening my relationship with them, YKWIM?

 

The substance thing is a different matter, but I really think your perspective on this is what is causing the issue, not their actions. The good news about that is that we can pray for peace in our minds and hearts and charity in dealing with others, and meditate on scripture ourselves, to good effect. God is gracious with us when we are hurting and grows us through these painful things. I hope you can come to a place where you can feel comfortable with this and not anxious or hurt, for your sake and the sake of this relationship.

 

That's all I'll say about that. :grouphug:

Edited December 11, 2015 by Arctic Mama

[bettyandbob]

No I wouldn't fault FM. FM is an adult, but young. It's hard to figuring out how to handle all the demands, especially at holidays. The person whose decision-making is problematic is the person who invited FM. This person 

 

1. knows your family's Christmas schedule

2. knows that her invitation will encroach on the precious little family time you have

 

The person was selfish to put FM in an awkward position with the invitation. FM probably sees  this person briefly when FM does get back to the area and there is a history so FM feels obligated. I suspect if FM were older and used to navigating social obligations with his own decision making he might have felt comfortable responding the invitation by saying "can I come just for short coffee or dessert at X time instead. I only have a short time to visit people here." Setting limits and making negotiations on social obligations is a skill that can take time to develop.

 

OP I think you can say to FM " your time is so limited. I know you want visit A, I just wish you could wait a couple hours and go for dessert instead of a whole meal." Then, when FM says he already responded to the invite you just say you understand and are glad you are having a visit with him anyway. Then, leave it alone. He'll know how you feel and hopefully, will figure out how to handle it better if the situation comes up again. 

 

Then, my passive-aggressive self would want dh to write a sermon for this weekend about how all our young people are coming home for a very short time and it is really important not to encroach of family visits. Then he could stare down the family in their pew while he gives the sermon. So, that would never, ever happen, but I know I would dream about that. 

[Chris in VA]

But Chris, holding so tightly to these days as somehow special and cordoned off for family, aside from their basic purpose, is causing you stress and grief. Changing your perspective would fix the issue with *no* drama. Elevating this as a family only 36 hour thing (Christmas Eve to the next midnight) and therefore justifying getting upset about a dinner invite isn't really rational or productive, and moreover it is hurting you.

 

Getting over it, if only for your own sake, is the least problematic course from here. And without knowing the epic baggage, plenty of people like me would have zero issue inviting a friend or even a child's friend over for a late day meal. I mean, who cares? It's just not a big deal. It would seriously weird me out if someone flipped out over not spending every moment of the day together. It sounds like this is weird and longstanding, but I really don't mind another family wanting to semi-adopt my child or parent. Why would I? More connection and community isn't somehow threatening my relationship with them, YKWIM?

 

The substance thing is a different matter, but I really think your perspective on this is what is causing the issue, not their actions. The good news about that is that we can pray for peace in our minds and hearts and charity in dealing with others, and meditate on scripture ourselves, to good effect. God is gracious with us when we are hurting and grows us through these painful things. I hope you can come to a place where you can feel comfortable with this and not anxious or hurt, for your sake and the sake of this relationship.

 

That's all I'll say about that. :grouphug:

 

I really appreciate this.

 

 

And because I'm  human I will add, to the "I really don't mind another family wanting to semi-adopt..." issue,

you would if it were this family. ;)

 

OK, OK, I'm going now.

 

 

[maize]

I really appreciate this.

 

 

And because I'm  human I will add, to the "I really don't mind another family wanting to semi-adopt..." issue,

you would if it were this family. ;)

 

OK, OK, I'm going now.

 

Which is probably the crux of the matter.

 

While I do generally view Christmas as family time, I don't see it as sacred to the extent that it is unreasonable for an adult to spend some time with family and some time with friends, or for friends to assume that inviting said adult to spend time would be utterly unreasonable.

 

I think, however, that there is a lot of background going on here and that having this FM spend time with these particular people on a day that you view as being primarily for family and during a very short visit from out of town, is deeply upsetting to you. That is is a re-encroachment on family boundaries that have been encroached on before and a re-opening of old wounds that are really not healed.

 

And I am sorry. There's not much I can offer except hugs.

Edited December 11, 2015 by maize

[katilac]

It's not my style, but I don't think it's unusual at all for people, particularly younger people, to spend part of the day with family, and part of the day with friends. 

 

I'm sure I would be bothered by all of the context and background that goes with this particular situation, but there's nothing inherently rude about inviting a friend over on Christmas. 

[Carol in Cal.]

It's not my style, but I don't think it's unusual at all for people, particularly younger people, to spend part of the day with family, and part of the day with friends. 

 

I'm sure I would be bothered by all of the context and background that goes with this particular situation, but there's nothing inherently rude about inviting a friend over on Christmas. 

I disagree, particularly since this is a family that is committed to a liturgical church.

 

Taking in strays or entire families for Christmas, no problem.  Nice, even.

 

Taking a family member AWAY from their family ON ACTUAL CHRISTMAS, really not cool at all.

 

Have a Boxing Day gathering the next day or something.  But not this.  Not taking AWAY.

[Guest]

We often went over to other people's houses after Christmas dinner, but it was as a family.  But as my son has gotten older, he and his buddies have gone out together on Christmas night--often, they stay at each other''s houses for a night or two...or three...because they are good friends from high school and only see each other on Christmas and summer breaks now.  They are a good crew and I'm glad my son has friends.  If it were toward his personal destruction, I'd have a problem with it, but I don't know that I'd say much...because I don't know that it would bring us closer together.   Sometimes you have to let go to hold on.  

 

But that doesn't mean it's what I want.  

 

(For most of the last 4 years, that last statement has been most of the truth about my relationship with my son...)  So, I'm no expert.  I'm living into hope and listening to moms who have gone before me to know how what to do and say.

 

[swimmermom3]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Chris, please don't feel bad if you can't "let go."  When families have been living with mental illness/and/or substance abuse for many years, the wounds can be incredibly deep and incredibly hard to heal. You learn to live with chronic fear and sometimes I think there is almost a PTSD element. "Letting go" sounds good and right, but it's not like holding a balloon up to the wind, offering a prayer, and letting go of a string.

 

We had an incident a few years ago, that if it had involved young adults who were not severally depressed, would have on the surface, been something we could now laugh about as "kids being kids."  However, our severally depressed dd triggered events that created a perfect firestorm and to this day, I can hardly think about it without being ill and thinking about what could have happened. I am sure there will be a day when I can lighten the baggage, but so far, people telling me to lighten it, just doesn't work. The stitches are still holding the edges together. If your journey included nearly losing your FM, then the task can be doubly hard.

 

If you can, perhaps talk to your FM using one of the models you learn in counseling about framing things in terms of how FM's acceptance affected how you feel.

 

"When you accepted Z's offer, I struggled because I still have some conflicted feelings about what happened in the past with Z. I know everything is fine now; it's just hard not to feel uncomfortable, and besides, we really enjoy your company, but understand if you wish to go."  Eh, anyway, you probably know what I mean.

 

Be kind to yourself.

 

 

 

 

[Susan in TN]

(((Chris)))

[elegantlion]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I'd be upset too. I would work really hard to get through or set aside those feelings and focus on the "firsts" you will have this holiday season. I'd still be upset though. 

[Murphy101]

Really?

 

I don't know any family that expects people from other families to join them when their own families are nearby. Of any age.

 

None.

 

They might come together as families for the day. I have done and know others that have. But I have never heard of inviting just one member of a family that is nearby and not the entire family. I think that's pretty bizarre bc everyone, even the atheist and pagans in my would find it odd if for example, I invited just their son rather their household to a holiday event.

 

We always welcome anyone who doesn't have family nearby that they would understandably prefer spending the holiday with. This thanksgiving we have two very nice young men who are friends of my sons. Their families are in Cali and India, so they didn't have family here to be with. If they did, I would have invited their entire household, not just them.

 

I guess if they were estranged from their family I could see that happening too.

 

I guess that's why I would find it hurtful. My family is fairly close so I'd be very hurt and surprised if a son said he didn't want to spend the holiday with us but instead go to some other place in town. They have invited girlfriends and then spent some time at their girlfriends family home too. Which of course is only fair, but I've always invited their entire household to join us. A couple times they have accepted. In one case, the girlfriend's mom had had surgery just a couple weeks before a major holiday and really was not up to doing much and her extended family lived in another state. They joined us. It didn't even occur to me to ONLY invite the girlfriend.