Taking husband's surname upon marriage?

[abba12]

There are not last names in the bible so I don't see what naming conventions surrounding marriage would have to do with biblical patriarchy.

 

It has to do with exactly what I said, a symbolic representation of transferring from my fathers to my husbands headship. The name change isn't a biblical thing. But what is it supposed to represent is. 

[Slojo]

My parents got married in 1970's Berkeley and my mom kept her name. She and my dad saddled me with a horribly clunky hyphenated name that I HATED. Seriously, I wish they had picked either my mom's name or my dad's for me. Trying to locate records from before I got married is a nightmare because I never know what they're listed under.

 

Imagine my name was Jane Doe-Smith. The records could be under Doe-Smith, Jane; Smith, Jane; Doe, Jane; Doesmith, Jane; Smith, Jane Doe (as a double first name), etc. etc.

 

I got married 2 weeks after my college graduation and couldn't wait to dump it in favor of my DH's name.

I would like to think with all the blended families these days that the "records people" have figured this one out. I don't really see why this has to be a big problem, and sincerely hope it's not for my children. I don't think saddled has anything to do with hyphenated or not. Sure - some hyphenated names don't work well, but some single last names can be quite "unfortunate" as well. There are plenty of ways that a name can "saddle" a child -- work with what you have, do your best to honor whatever you are trying to honor, and carry on. 

[DesertBlossom]

I don't remember where I read this, but I read that "back in the day" the father's last name was given to a child because it showed the child was "legitimate" and the parents were married. And at a time when single mothers or "illegitimate" children would have not have done very well in society, it was important to show that and for the father to "claim" the child. (It's easy to know who the mother is because she birthed the baby, but before DNA testing paternity could be questioned.)

 

I thought that's where the tradition came from anyway.

[fdrinca]

I kept my name. I'd already been published under that name, and really, both of our last names are pretty standard - not Smith or Jones, but not far off, either. There's no real family attachment to last names on either side. And while this didn't factor into the decision, I will be the only one in my family that continues on our very generic last name, as all of the cousins are girls who have adopted other names. 

 

Pros: Easy. (Lazy.) 

 

Cons: I personally haven't experienced any. Professionally, DH and I are in academia, so it's fairly common. The kids have a hyphenated last name, making their very generic name somewhat unusual, a first for both DH and myself. The church rectory is mystified as to our name situation. I occasionally get mail addressed to the opposite name,which is understandable. 

 

DH occasionally brings up the idea that a family should have the same name,and is interested in changing his last name to that of the kids. The paperwork for a name change is just a big PITA, so it never happens.

 

My parents got married in 1970's Berkeley and my mom kept her name. She and my dad saddled me with a horribly clunky hyphenated name that I HATED. Seriously, I wish they had picked either my mom's name or my dad's for me. Trying to locate records from before I got married is a nightmare because I never know what they're listed under.

 

Imagine my name was Jane Doe-Smith. The records could be under Doe-Smith, Jane; Smith, Jane; Doe, Jane; Doesmith, Jane; Smith, Jane Doe (as a double first name), etc. etc.

 

I got married 2 weeks after my college graduation and couldn't wait to dump it in favor of my DH's name.

 

I find this hugely interesting. We hyphenated the kids' last name as we couldn't agree on which name they should use. It would make as much sense for them to use either mine or DH name, right? DH had some problems with this. (He was very afraid that he'd be seen as a stepfather, I believe.) 

 

Anyway, my kids have a "horribly clunky hyphenated name" that they will probably resent in 10 years or so. I've already told them they're free to pick any combination of names they prefer. I really don't care. 

[Slojo]

It has to do with exactly what I said, a symbolic representation of transferring from my fathers to my husbands headship. The name change isn't a biblical thing. But what is it supposed to represent is. 

That is a traditional biblical interpretation. But couldn't there just as easily be an interpretation based on this verse as well: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." Seems like there is no more symbolic "cleaving" than taking on the wife's surname. Or making a new family name altogether that is neither family of origin's?

 

Whatever last name one has taken is lovely -- I just don't get the "biblical" thing. Feels more like a cultural thing that has been given "biblical" meaning "after the fact."

[J-rap]

I got married in the 80's and changed my name to my husband's, mostly out of tradition at the time, but also I really liked it.  It's a very classy-sounding name compared to my maiden name which is probably one of the most common last names in the entire USA.  But my husband wouldn't have minded at all changing to my last name.  He wouldn't have minded anything at all, as long as we were together.  I really do like the idea of everyone in the family having a shared family name, the same one for everyone.  I know it's just symbolic, but to me it's a nice symbol of unity.  (Again, I know it's just a symbol.) 

 

My views have changed a lot about some things over time, but I still like a shared family name.  It can be the husband's last name, or the wife's, or a brand new one. 

 

Everyone in my husband's family kept their own names after they married.  I think they believe I should have too, because whenever they write my name, they always put my maiden name (even after 30 years!).  I've told them over and over that I don't use that name, AT ALL, not even for a middle name.  It's kind of a running joke.

 

My daughter lives in a Latin American country, and there, the wife typically keeps her own last name but then tacks on her husband's last name too.  So then they have two last names.  That's what my daughter did.  It will be confusing when they move up here.  The names aren't hyphenated or anything, just two last names.  Another daughter has said that she won't marry unless her husband agrees to take her name.  She's half joking, but half not! 

[LucyStoner]

It has to do with exactly what I said, a symbolic representation of transferring from my fathers to my husbands headship. The name change isn't a biblical thing. But what is it supposed to represent is.

So it's patriarchy, not biblical anything.

 

It's by definition an extra-biblical concept.

[SereneHome]

I can understand not wanting to change the name if you are published or known in certain professional circles, etc.

 

Other than that - I don't get why women get so hang up about it and why people care so much what they are being called in general.   Some claim it it's a matter of respect, but I call BS on it. 

 

My IL's threw a HUGE fit when I told them that I am not comfortable calling them "mom" and "dad".  It was a sign of disrespect to them.

 

What they didn't realize is that they completely lost any and all of my respect when they tried to give me an ultimatum on what to call them.  At that point it didn't matter if I called them "their majesty" bc it was just empty words.

 

I care a lot more about how my husband treats me and our relationship vs whether he wanted me to take his name.

 

Actions are always much more important than words, to me, at least

 

[Aelwydd]

I took dh's name when we were married, as we were both conservative Christians at the time, and it was just what is done in those circles. Since we have both evolved philosophically away from that religion, I do sometimes wish I hadn't changed my name.  However, it was dh who actually first suggested changing it back.  Though since I have established my professional identity under my married name, it would be too much trouble to go back and change everything now. 

 

I was really miffed earlier this week, when I attempted to get my new enhanced license (from TX to MN), and presented no less than: my certified birth certificate, my SS card (with my married name on it), my marriage certificate signed by the priest/ officiator, my bank statement (with my married name), and my tax return from last year (again, with my last name.)  

 

Do you know that the office called me after and said that they could not approve my license until I provided a certified copy of my marriage license to prove my married name is my legal name??  Did I mention that my SS card and my tax return (for the last 14 years) both show my married name???

 

So, while dh gets his application approved (because you know, he never changed his name), mine has gotten sidelined while I undergo the extra expense to procure a certified marriage certificate from the state we were married in. 

 

I totally get why women would not change their last names.  It's stupid B.S. like this, in addition to all of the recent barriers being thrown up around things like procuring voting cards with the correct matching legal name, that would have me strongly advise my daughter, if I had one, to just keep her own name.  (That's assuming she would even desire to formalize a relationship in marriage.)

[frogger]

What I really wish is that our culture would drop the Miss, Mrs., and Ms. for one single title. Some people keep their names, some don't, some you knew were married are now divorced, or I meet them as first name, last name and don't know what to give them as a title if I want to address them respectfully but don't know the marriage background. You don't have to know a man's personal background to address them respectfully as a Mr. Why can't it be that easy for women?

[abba12]

So it's patriarchy, not biblical anything.

 

It's by definition an extra-biblical concept.

 

I used the word biblical to differentiate it from the 'patriarchy' practiced by groups led by people like Gothard or Phillips. Nothing more. There's a difference between the current catch word patriarchy, and biblical patriarchy, which I thought was made clear by my following the term with the explanation differentiating it from those sorts of leaders. Apparently not, so be it. 

 

That is a traditional biblical interpretation. But couldn't there just as easily be an interpretation based on this verse as well: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." Seems like there is no more symbolic "cleaving" than taking on the wife's surname. Or making a new family name altogether that is neither family of origin's?

 

Because in the bible a woman submits to her husband, a man changing his name to his wifes name is a reversal of that

And, again, I expanded on the statment later by saying the name change itself is not biblical, I never claimed as much. I was explaining WHY I changed my name to the OP. That, for me, it was a symbolic gesture of the biblical concept of my headship changing from my father to my husband. My last name, to me, is not my personal identity but is a reflection of the family I belong to. I left my fathers family, and became my husbands family. My husband, while he too left his fathers family, did not become my family perse, he became his own family, because he has no human headship to fall under. 

 

I wasn't trying to say everyone was wrong, I was trying to explain MY reasons to the curious OP and the biblical basis for the decision, what is symbolized to me. I assumed others on the forum had enough general knowledge of the concept to understand what I was saying without extensive explanations like these. Not agree with me, I don't care if people agree with me, just understand and respect my viewpoint as much as anyone else is respecting theirs. 

[Guest]

I was going to be Patricia MaidenName DhLastName when we got married. About three weeks after the wedding, I had to sign alllllll the papers for an FHA loan. That settled my hash. Patricia DHName.

[MeghansMom]

I have my ex-spouse's last name and my current husband's name as my last name.

 

My maiden last name is pretty atrocious and when I remarried, I gained three bonus children, custodial. My son did not want to be the only one with a different name, so I just hyphenated it. Socially I am called by my current husband's last name, but legally I have both last names.

[lailasmum]

I think it's odd that women who focus on the 'not taking a man's name' aspect of things never stop to think that they are saddled with their father's name. In my case that was relevant to my decision, as I figured I'd rather have the name of a man I chose than one who I didn't and who let me down repeatedly. As I child of a remarried mother I also wanted us all to share the same family name.

 

I did stop to think and personally would rather not have my father's surname either, but just taking my husband's name doesn't cure the problem that we're all named in relation to men, it's just continuing the tradition. I have two friends who have created entirely new names, one just the surname and one her full name, both to disassociate from extremely abusive families and really hard stages of their lives. Their new surnames have a strong and important meaning to them. I personally can't think of anything I really want as a surname which stops me doing it and I don't come from a family I really want to leave behind in the same way.

[SKL]

I'm not married, but I like the idea of taking on the husband's name.  That said, I probably wouldn't do it as a seasoned adult, because there are so many important documents / life events using my original name.  The thought of changing so many things over to a new name - if you can even do that for most of those things - sounds like an unnecessary burden.

 

The issue of what to call the kids is a sticky one.  In my case, I adopted my kids while single, so that would be easier if I just kept my maiden name.  For more typical situations, I like the idea of a hyphenated last name for the kids, but traditional families might be uncomfortable with that.  I don't like the idea of having a different last name from my kids, but I still might choose that over losing a large chunk of my identity.

[Liz CA]

When ds was still in school, his 4th grade teacher had a rather long and funny sounding name. He married some time later and took his wife's last name which was rather common, easily spelled and pronounced...I can never remember his new name but I certainly remember his first last name. :lol:

[MedicMom]

My name is first name maiden Name married name. I didn't hyphenate them, but I do usually sign it with a hyphen.

I've been trying to figure it if, since the last name is not legally hyphenated, if I can simply drop DH name. It's a harsh sounding German name that always has to be spelled, and I have a pretty sounding Irish maiden name that is easy to spell. I didn't want to change my name in the first place, but it was a big deal to DH that first year of marriage. Now he really doesn't care.

 

Maybe I can just start signing my name first name maiden name?

[poppy]

I can understand not wanting to change the name if you are published or known in certain professional circles, etc.

 

Other than that - I don't get why women get so hang up about it and why people care so much what they are being called in general.   Some claim it it's a matter of respect, but I call BS on it. 

 

My IL's threw a HUGE fit when I told them that I am not comfortable calling them "mom" and "dad".  It was a sign of disrespect to them.

 

What they didn't realize is that they completely lost any and all of my respect when they tried to give me an ultimatum on what to call them.  At that point it didn't matter if I called them "their majesty" bc it was just empty words.

 

I care a lot more about how my husband treats me and our relationship vs whether he wanted me to take his name.

 

Actions are always much more important than words, to me, at least

So, your position is, me asking you to call my by birth name is forcing something on you and you don't respect me because of it?

 

Listen, here is what I did to NOT change my name:

1. Got married

2. Kept on living

This is not some act of rebellion because I'm hung up on what people call me.  Honestly, I didn't do anything at all.  Keeping the name you're born with is an entirely passive act.   It's really easy.  It's what our husbands did, you know.

 

 

[poppy]

 

The issue of what to call the kids is a sticky one.  In my case, I adopted my kids while single, so that would be easier if I just kept my maiden name.  For more typical situations, I like the idea of a hyphenated last name for the kids, but traditional families might be uncomfortable with that.  I don't like the idea of having a different last name from my kids, but I still might choose that over losing a large chunk of my identity.

 

When I was first pregnant, I asked my husband- how about if it's a girl she has my first name, and if it's a boy, he gets yours?

He was not comfortable with that.  He said a women has kids with a different last name, people think "she didn't change her name when she got married". (Not uncommon in our region). A man has kids with a different last name, people think "they're stepkids".  I accepted his wishes and the kids have his name.  My daughter has my last name as her middle name. My son would have too, but he was born when DH's father died, and we ended up making him a namesake.

[ktgrok]

 She is mainly peeved because it happens all the time when they see her, whereas before she was married, they never came up to her gleefully and said 'Hi, Miss MaidenName', they'd use her first name only.  I guess it's because they think being newly married, that she'd be thrilled to hear the title Mrs, and naturally they'd use Husband's Name to go with it.  She'd prefer they'd still say 'Hi, Lucy' as they always used to.  I think after the initial newness has worn off they'll go back to using her first name upon greeting.

 

I need to move by you! No one EVER calls me Mrs. Husband's last name, even though it IS my name. I love the sound of it, and it just never happens. I'm in the south, so it's Miss First Name around here. Which is fine, but I'd like to hear the other now and then. 

[SporkUK]

We both changed our family name, though he kept his as a second middle name out of respect for his siblings. We were creating a new family, we're both estranged from our fathers so that wasn't a big deal (though weird when we had to list them on our marriage certificate), and I was changing my name anyways so it seemed normal to us. I use Mx. or Ms. as a title when required but prefer to be without. 

 

For others, I would use whatever title or name they wanted. I do think it is quite disrespectful and downright rude to call someone a name or title or other identifiers they do not want even if it is tradition. Traditions are made by people and changed by people, people are always more important. As someone who often has people call them by a different name (a visually close more common name that is pronounced very differently) and am routinely written off when I try to correct people - or have them try to rewrite my name differently, it feels like people don't view me as enough of an individual person to bother recognizing me by my own chosen two-syllable identifier. 

[Slojo]

I used the word biblical to differentiate it from the 'patriarchy' practiced by groups led by people like Gothard or Phillips. Nothing more. There's a difference between the current catch word patriarchy, and biblical patriarchy, which I thought was made clear by my following the term with the explanation differentiating it from those sorts of leaders. Apparently not, so be it. 

 

 

Because in the bible a woman submits to her husband, a man changing his name to his wifes name is a reversal of that

And, again, I expanded on the statment later by saying the name change itself is not biblical, I never claimed as much. I was explaining WHY I changed my name to the OP. That, for me, it was a symbolic gesture of the biblical concept of my headship changing from my father to my husband. My last name, to me, is not my personal identity but is a reflection of the family I belong to. I left my fathers family, and became my husbands family. My husband, while he too left his fathers family, did not become my family perse, he became his own family, because he has no human headship to fall under. 

 

I wasn't trying to say everyone was wrong, I was trying to explain MY reasons to the curious OP and the biblical basis for the decision, what is symbolized to me. I assumed others on the forum had enough general knowledge of the concept to understand what I was saying without extensive explanations like these. Not agree with me, I don't care if people agree with me, just understand and respect my viewpoint as much as anyone else is respecting theirs. 

I affirmed your having whatever last name was meaningful to you. I do have general knowledge of the concept as the vast majority of people I know have taken their husband's name and many of them at least vaguely reference "headship" as the reason.  I am challenging the idea that the concept is particularly biblical. It's cultural, first and foremost, and has been assigned biblical meaning. The symbolism - as you've referred to it -- is cultural (how you've chosen to interpret what is really a practical human response to the task of differentiating individuals from other individuals, heavily influenced by your historical-social context).

 

And that is great (I originally said "lovely") - a long-standing cultural tradition that is as valid as following matrilineal lines or conferring more than one name, etc... I think we are actually saying the same thing: there is no actual biblical support one way or the other for changing to the husband's name, and any name change is symbolic. It sounds like we differ on whether we personally confer any emotional or spiritual meaning to it. If it's more than that for you, fine. But, no I don't "emotionally" get the theological argument for name changing and how that has any bearing on how I relate "biblically" to my husband. The Bible has many passages referencing or relating to "headship," but none that I know of stating that a man "changing his name to his wife's is a reversal of that." 

 

 

I can understand not wanting to change the name if you are published or known in certain professional circles, etc.

 

Other than that - I don't get why women get so hang up about it and why people care so much what they are being called in general.   Some claim it it's a matter of respect, but I call BS on it. 

 

Actions are always much more important than words, to me, at least...

Your exact same sentence could be changed to read: "I don't get why MEN get so hung up about it and why people care so much what they are being called in general..."  And yet, poster after poster describe much more emotion and disapproval about name changing or not taking THEIR name from men than women, actually. Seems like if there is any "hang up" problem, it is far more exhibited by men and/or people who are attached to the "take the man's name" thing. Seems like keeping the name you were born with (or perhaps remaining nameless until one is of age to chose for themselves -- I'm being facetious) is about as non-attached to what one is called as going through the hurdle of a name change. Both are attached to different things, but one is not better than the other. 

 

Where I might agree with you (not sure though, because I think names and naming is powerful, having descended from a people who were not given the basic right to name themselves or their children -- their slave masters did so), is I don't get why people claim that their attachments are anything other than that -- attachments. And attachments are cool - they support our self-identity, they help us feel bonded to important people in our lives, they ground us in a sense of peoplehood -- that's why people care about what they are being called. What I don't understand is why those attachments are also assigned biblical meaning or importance OR why anyone ELSE would care what I prefer to be called (rather than the other way around: I get why I care. I don't get why other people care.)

[Pam in CT]

Married 24 years; have only ever had one name: the one my parents gave me.

 

My kids have my husband's last name.  When teachers / school administrators or sport coaches etc call me, they generally go with Mrs (kids' last name); that's fine; an easy/natural inference; I expect it.  On all official school directories / team rosters etc, I'm in with my actual name.  Looking through such directories, there are gazillion kids whose last name are different from one or both resident parents, be that through divorce/reversion to maiden name, divorce/remarriage, step- or blended families, etc.  At least in this area, my kids are by no means unusual having a parent with a different last name.  We travel a lot and it has never once come up.

 

When I taught in a b&m school, I went by Mrs. MyLastName.  (Kids are for some reason terribly interested in their teachers' marital status, so I wanted to convey that information accurately,  though in actual practice I noticed that they mostly all merged the various Miss, Ms. and Mrs. into an indistinguishable Miz...)

 

People who actually know me use my actual name.  Superficial acquaintances, particularly if we meet through my husband or we meet as a couple, may call me Pam (husband's last name); that's fine, an easy/natural inference; I expect it.

 

If we become close, people eventually use my actual name.  Cuz, it's my name.

 

 

While I don't mind Pam Husband'sLastName in the least even though it's not accurate, I loathe Mrs. HusbandsFirstName  HusbandsLastName.  

 

Cuz then I *have* completely disappeared.  Cuz then there *is* no part of my own identity left.  I understand the Emily Post etiquette history but that isn't a sufficient reason for me to disappear.  

 

If I receive mail to Mrs. HusbandsFirstName HusbandsLastName and the sender is someone a) I know IRL and b) over seventy years old, I give a pass.  Otherwise I (politely) decline the invitation or throw the donation solicitation in the garbage.  Cuz that's not the world I wish to partake in. YMMV.

[Jane in NC]

My husband and I married while residing in an academic community.  (He was in grad school while I was teaching at another university down the road.)  It was the norm for couples to retain their birth names among our peers but some of my students--particularly some of the young men--were very disconcerted to hear that I had not changed my name after marrying.  Perhaps at the time this was not part of their family or community cultures.

 

In the ensuing years following our marriage and a move to a very different sort of community, we have seen many variations on names.  I respect the decision to change, hyphenate or retain names.  And I would hope that people would equally respect the decisions that others make.

 

A related but interesting tale:  one of my neighbors has a grandson who had been adopted by a single mom who later married neighbor's son.  I am not sure how these things go legally, but eventually my neighbor's son adopted the boy too. When this grandson turned 18, he decided to change his surname to that of his adopted father, something that everyone thought was very touching.  But here is the interesting thing:  the young man changed his first name too.  No one saw that coming.  I guess he decided that if he was going to change his last name, he might as well make a clean sweep of things.

[Violet Crown]

Names can be such a minefield. It's so tied up with one's personal identity and relation to both wider society and smaller communities; and for us women those are things in flux historically and over the course of our own lives. With the combination of (rightly) strong feelings about our names and the huge variety of names and titles, it's a wonder anybody dares address anybody else at all! I try to live by my grandmother's twin dicta: Call people by whatever they want to be called; and Remember most people are bad at names, so just assume the best and gently remind. (My Grandmommy went by Mrs. Firstname Maidenname Exhusband1 Exhusband2 Exhusband3, so she had had some experience there.)

 

Two name anecdotes, not directly apropos of the OP:

 

1. A friend of mine has a last name that is both long and unusual: sort of like "Tchaikovsky." She married a second cousin with the same last name and has endless, endless confusion. "So you didn't take your husband's name then?" "No, I'm asking your maiden name, not your married name." "What, your husband took your name?" She says she has often toyed with hyphenating it, just as a sort of inchoate revenge on the universe. "Yes, it's Tchaikovsky-Tchaikovsky. The first Tchaikovsky is mine."

 

2. I knew my mother-in-law from childhood, and always addressed her as Mrs. Crown. On the day after my wedding, I phoned her from the airport to let her know our departure time (she distrusted airplanes and always liked to know when exactly to start worrying), and at the end of our conversation she said, very formally, "Now you are my daughter-in-law you must call me Carol." It was so like her to have guessed that I was unsure how to address her now and a little afraid to ask, and so beautiful how she made the direction sound like "You are truly family."

[Veritaserum]

I took my husband's last name because my maiden name is also a common first or middle name. People constantly confuse my full name as my first + middle and called me by my full name. It was annoying. I kept my maiden name as my middle name and just added dh's surname to the end. If my maiden name had been solely a surname, I might have kept it. At the time I married, I was conservative and part of a conservative culture and religion so I probably would have still changed to dh's. It did bother me that people automatically changed my name without even asking me and before I changed it legally because that's something I feel it's polite to ask about first. I know many women who haven't changed their last names upon marriage, even within conservative religions, but I prefer to hang out with feminists so that isn't surprising. ;-)

 

I loathe, loathe, loathe being addressed as Mrs. HusbandFirstName HusbandLastName. I'm his partner, not part of him. I don't care that this was once tradition. It's disturbing to me and I hate it. I'm Mrs. MyName HusbandLastName. We are Mr. and Mrs. HisName and MyName LastName.

[J-rap]

I meant to add in my earlier post, that I've never really understood how people feel their self-identity is so tied to a name.  To me, a name is a word and only that.  I am the same person no matter what name I choose.  The name itself is almost irrelevant.  It seems like it can become kind of a weird source of pride.  Maybe just picking a brand new name as a couple is the best way around it, if it's an issue.

 

I would change my entire name tomorrow and really wouldn't care at all.  I wouldn't feel like I'm losing myself.  (It might cause a few problems with people trying to get ahold of me, however!)

 

[Jane in NC]

I meant to add in my earlier post, that I've never really understood how people feel their self-identity is so tied to a name.  To me, a name is a word and only that.  I am the same person no matter what name I choose.  The name itself is almost irrelevant.  It seems like it can become kind of a weird source of pride.  Maybe just picking a brand new name as a couple is the best way around it, if it's an issue.

 

I would change my entire name tomorrow and really wouldn't care at all.  I wouldn't feel like I'm losing myself.  (It might cause a few problems with people trying to get ahold of me, however!)

 

Names here in the South are often tied to a community and its history.  This is quite different than the area of the Midwest in which I grew up which was a larger immigrant community. (And bear in mind that many immigrants formerly had their names changed at Ellis Island, not something they requested!)

 

Among the reasons I did not change my surname when I married:  1) I like my rather unique last name; 2) I do not have any brothers and my sister had changed her name so I foresaw being the last in a line of a family tree; 3) My husband's last name is a fine name but it is not my name--not my identity.

 

So while your name may be irrelevant to you, my name is relevant to me.  My name tells a larger story and I feel that I am a chapter within that story.

 

But I firmly believe that you have every right to change your name should you please. 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I took my husband's last name.  I dropped my middle name and put my maiden name in its place.  It took me quite a while to get used to the name change.  When we were engaged my husband said he didn't care if I took his name or if he took mine, he just wanted us to have the same name. We were both conservative Christians at the time, I still am.

 

My oldest is engaged to be married in 2 years.  She recently legally changed her name to her pen name.  She has no plans to take his name.  She's not a Christian.

 

Around here no one under age of 70 goes by Mr. or Mrs.  except in the conservative churches where it's the subculture.

[J-rap]

Names here in the South are often tied to a community and its history.  This is quite different than the area of the Midwest in which I grew up which was a larger immigrant community. (And bear in mind that many immigrants formerly had their names changed at Ellis Island, not something they requested!)

 

Among the reasons I did not change my surname when I married:  1) I like my rather unique last name; 2) I do not have any brothers and my sister had changed her name so I foresaw being the last in a line of a family tree; 3) My husband's last name is a fine name but it is not my name--not my identity.

 

So while your name may be irrelevant to you, my name is relevant to me.  My name tells a larger story and I feel that I am a chapter within that story.

 

But I firmly believe that you have every right to change your name should you please. 

 

 

I understand that.  Maybe since I live in the Midwest and also come from a line of immigrants who actually requested a name change at Ellis Island makes it easier for me to not feel as much of a connection to my name.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

What I really wish is that our culture would drop the Miss, Mrs., and Ms. for one single title. Some people keep their names, some don't, some you knew were married are now divorced, or I meet them as first name, last name and don't know what to give them as a title if I want to address them respectfully but don't know the marriage background. You don't have to know a man's personal background to address them respectfully as a Mr. Why can't it be that easy for women?

 

So true.  Ms. is all we need in situations where, apparently, this tradition of a titles + last names are still happening.  In most situations where I live people are addressed by their first names anyway.  Titles are fairly antiquated now in my region in most situations so using one to indicate a woman's marital status feels practically ancient.

 

A title + a first name is often associated with low education, low income babysitters, daycare staff, and teen helpers so I suggest people be aware of their subcultures before using them in another place. One person's formality is another person's class distinction.

 

"Ma'am" is not used here at all for women unless they are obviously very elderly because it's equated with calling a woman old, so it's "Miss" for everyone but little old, stopped, cane using ladies.  I say we all just chuck them and use "Ms." if for some reason, people feel the need to be formal.

[MyThreeSons]

I don't see that anyone has mentioned genealogy as a factor in all of this. I'm not big into it, by any means, but I was just thinking how much more confusing it would be to track down family members when there are all of these name changes going on, for example when a child's birth certificate has one name and she changes it to something else later. 

[Spryte]

DH offered to take my name or another name from the female side of my family. But I chose to hyphenate. Once it became clear that my stepson desperately wanted us all to have the same name - it was a no brainer. I changed my name the next day. I'd do anything for that kid. :)

[poppy]

I meant to add in my earlier post, that I've never really understood how people feel their self-identity is so tied to a name.  To me, a name is a word and only that.  I am the same person no matter what name I choose.  The name itself is almost irrelevant.  It seems like it can become kind of a weird source of pride.  Maybe just picking a brand new name as a couple is the best way around it, if it's an issue.

 

I would change my entire name tomorrow and really wouldn't care at all.  I wouldn't feel like I'm losing myself.  (It might cause a few problems with people trying to get ahold of me, however!)

 

This is argument both for and against changing!  

 

Even though I didn't change my name, I'm open to doing so at some point in the future. Not a very big deal to me.  Taking the necessary steps is just not an action I'd take by default at the point of marriage.  

 

I remember a story of a woman who took her husband's name after many years of marriage due to a cruise ticket gift she received as "Hername Hislastname".  Changing the name was cheaper and easier than changing the ticket (which went through multiple passport stations).  So she did.

[SKL]

I meant to add in my earlier post, that I've never really understood how people feel their self-identity is so tied to a name.  To me, a name is a word and only that.  I am the same person no matter what name I choose.  The name itself is almost irrelevant.  It seems like it can become kind of a weird source of pride.  Maybe just picking a brand new name as a couple is the best way around it, if it's an issue.

 

I would change my entire name tomorrow and really wouldn't care at all.  I wouldn't feel like I'm losing myself.  (It might cause a few problems with people trying to get ahold of me, however!)

 

The following are all in my original name:

• School records and standardized test scores all the way up to grad school (MBA, JD).
• Professional licenses (CPA, attorney).  Also my notary public which never expires.
• Driving license, passport, visas.
• Anything I have published.
• 3+ decades of work history, credit history, and tax history.
• Nearly 5 decades of health history.
• My driving records, but I don't mind if those get lost.  :p
• Ownership of a house, car, bank accounts, retirement accounts, insurances, etc.
• Ownership and/or official positions (legally relevant) on a number of companies and nonprofits.
• My kids' many adoption records and their birth certificates.
• Thousands of other things I've signed over the years.
• The only name past friends/family would know to try if they wanted to look me up.
• Lots of other stuff.

There are tangible ways my name is relevant to my identity.  I'm sure there are ways to deal with a lot of these, but at some point I wouldn't find it worth the trouble, since nowadays having the same last name is far from universal anyway.

 

Now my mom was a 17yo high-school dropout (without kids) when she got married, so it probably felt a lot different for her.  Especially since her parents were divorced, her mom was going to remarry and change her name again, and her dad was, well, a creep.  She may have been pleased for a good reason to change her name.

 

To each her own.

[HS Mom in NC]

Of course I did. It is the custom in this country.

 

Of course it isn't.  As you can see on this thread, there isn't one custom that applies to this country as a whole.  It's one of many different customs in this country.

 

[Reefgazer]

If a name was just a word, this post wouldn't exist and there wouldn't a shitstorm within certain families and cultures when a woman decides to passively keep her name.

 

I don't think it's a big deal that your identity isn't tied to you name, s'ok. I just think it's a big deal when others make a stink because my identity is strongly attached to my name. Like you said, "Who cares?" Or more correctly, "Why would anyone care?"

 

.

I meant to add in my earlier post, that I've never really understood how people feel their self-identity is so tied to a name. To me, a name is a word and only that. I am the same person no matter what name I choose. The name itself is almost irrelevant. It seems like it can become kind of a weird source of pride. Maybe just picking a brand new name as a couple is the best way around it, if it's an issue.

 

I would change my entire name tomorrow and really wouldn't care at all. I wouldn't feel like I'm losing myself. (It might cause a few problems with people trying to get ahold of me, however!)

[mumto2]

Originally I had planned to keep my maiden name professionally but did not realize that I needed to make an announcement to that effect at work before my wedding. When I returned from my honeymoon a helpful coworker had changed my name on everything including the new phone directory which had conveniently been published that week (good for 6 months or so). They thought they were giving me a gift so I didn't make a fuss because I was already planning to use dh's name away from my work.

 

I really haven't regretted my name change. My maiden name is ethnic, but common enough so most people think they can spell it.....my family spell it differently so I always had to spell it. My brother was almost sent home from basic training because his records were lost (he wanted to come home so wasn't telling them the problem :lol: ) I never would have made my kids have to deal with that name hyphenated. Dh's last name is easy which I really enjoy.

[MSNative]

I grew up with a last name that had some unfortunate rhymes, so was happy to let it disappear and take DH's much-better last name.

 

However, I don't think it's a big deal if a woman chooses to not change her name. There are enough variations these days that people aren't surprised if the kids have a different last name than parents. I know one couple where the husband took the wife's last name. It's all good.

Am I the only one thinking, "Mulva?"

[Cafdog]

Kept my maiden name, for both professional and personal reasons.  Neither my family nor my in-laws gave me any flack about it, but I am not religious, FWIW.

 

[Slojo]

I don't see that anyone has mentioned genealogy as a factor in all of this. I'm not big into it, by any means, but I was just thinking how much more confusing it would be to track down family members when there are all of these name changes going on, for example when a child's birth certificate has one name and she changes it to something else later. 

 

Maybe I don't understand. Doesn't that already happen to roughly 50% of the marrying population (all the women, until very, very recent years)? Seems like geneology is made no more difficult or easy by name changes. There are name changes that do make geneology difficult - like ethnic families feeling like they had to change their names to blend in, or the lost names because of inconsistent slave records and the fact that slaves didn't have surnames by which they could be easily tracked. 

 

My hyphenating would seem to make me easier to track. I'm still identified with my original family name, and, going forward, into the family I married into. Seems like I've made it easier for my descendants to "find" me. 

[J-rap]

The following are all in my original name:

• School records and standardized test scores all the way up to grad school (MBA, JD).
• Professional licenses (CPA, attorney).  Also my notary public which never expires.
• Driving license, passport, visas.
• Anything I have published.
• 3+ decades of work history, credit history, and tax history.
• Nearly 5 decades of health history.
• My driving records, but I don't mind if those get lost.  :p
• Ownership of a house, car, bank accounts, a retirement accounts, insurances, etc.
• Ownership and/or official positions (legally relevant) on a number of companies and nonprofits.
• My kids' many adoption records and their birth certificates.
• Thousands of other things I've signed over the years.
• The only name past friends/family would know to try if they wanted to look me up.
• Lots of other stuff.

There are tangible ways my name is relevant to my identity.  I'm sure there are ways to deal with a lot of these, but at some point I wouldn't find it worth the trouble, since nowadays having the same last name is far from universal anyway.

 

Now my mom was a 17yo high-school dropout (without kids) when she got married, so it probably felt a lot different for her.  Especially since her parents were divorced, her mom was going to remarry and change her name again, and her dad was, well, a creep.  She may have been pleased for a good reason to change her name.

 

To each her own.

 

Of course, I understand that we use names to keep track of who we are, our records, etc.  I'm just saying that I don't feel a strong personal attachment to it.  I am not my name. 

[LucyStoner]

I used the word biblical to differentiate it from the 'patriarchy' practiced by groups led by people like Gothard or Phillips. Nothing more. There's a difference between the current catch word patriarchy, and biblical patriarchy, which I thought was made clear by my following the term with the explanation differentiating it from those sorts of leaders. Apparently not, so be it.

 

 

Because in the bible a woman submits to her husband, a man changing his name to his wifes name is a reversal of that

And, again, I expanded on the statment later by saying the name change itself is not biblical, I never claimed as much. I was explaining WHY I changed my name to the OP. That, for me, it was a symbolic gesture of the biblical concept of my headship changing from my father to my husband. My last name, to me, is not my personal identity but is a reflection of the family I belong to. I left my fathers family, and became my husbands family. My husband, while he too left his fathers family, did not become my family perse, he became his own family, because he has no human headship to fall under.

 

I wasn't trying to say everyone was wrong, I was trying to explain MY reasons to the curious OP and the biblical basis for the decision, what is symbolized to me. I assumed others on the forum had enough general knowledge of the concept to understand what I was saying without extensive explanations like these. Not agree with me, I don't care if people agree with me, just understand and respect my viewpoint as much as anyone else is respecting theirs.

To the bolded: no, it absolutely is not and it's not ok to make pronouncements like that for others. To you, if you did it you would see it as a reversal of biblical gender roles. Not to any man or any woman.

 

Not everyone ties names to marital dynamics, or headship/ownership.

 

My husband using my name is not a sign of submission to me, or as one poster said of herself, that he "died unto himself" when he married me. It's a reflection of a mix of personal choices and practical considerations:

 

1. It's the name our sons have, which was primarily his decision.

2. My family name is easier to say, spell, communicate and generally doesn't generate confusion.

3. His father was abusive and shedding that name helped him make his peace with his past.

 

That some people ascribe meaning to this that isn't there has been both humorous and hurtful.

 

I would reckon that a feminist man like my husband would be more likely to consider changing his own name but feminism is not matriarchy replacing patriarchy. It's an equalitarian rejection of patriarchy. Biblical or otherwise, neither of us wants any part of patriarchy.

 

I'm sure there are people who adhere to a power differential relationship model, for any number of motivations or reasons, who do not change their names at all.

 

The meaning of the name choice either way by either partner shouldn't be generalized to others or all couples nor given non-existent biblical weight. It's very much a "you do you" situaiton.

[J-rap]

This is argument both for and against changing!  

 

 

Yes, I definitely agree! I'm not on either side.  :)

 

[8circles]

I took DH's lastname because that's just what people did - I was young and never really thought about it beyond knowing I didn't want a hyphen.  Went through a period of wishing I had kept my maiden name as a 2nd middle, just adding DH'd name on the end.

 

Now I'm glad I didn't keep my maiden - as few ties to my FOO as possible,

 

But I can't say that DH's name (now mine for almost 20 years) really feels like MY name.  It's my immediate FAMILY's name, so it belongs to me that way.

[dirty ethel rackham]

One more thing, when I was divorced from my first husband and changing my name back on my Social Security card. I had a very nasty clerk tell me that because I had kept my last name as a middle name, I must never have planned to stay married anyway. I was only 23 and had my son with me.I was raised in a traditional household and had very good reasons for seeking a divorce, even under the strictest of guidelines. I was already devastated and just trying to keep my head up: This nasty, spiteful woman's words stung in a way I will never forget.

How bizarre?  In my mother's generation, it was the custom to use your maiden name as your middle name and take your husband's last name.  Mom, ever not the rebel, actually kept her given middle name, much to the consternation of everyone in her town.  She never explained her choice :). 

 

I've been married 24 years.  Most of my friends had taken their husband's last name.  I knew many people who had hyphenated their names and it seemed clumsy.  I had an identity at work that I wanted to maintain, but I wanted to join my name with my husband's (and I had read way too many romance novels as a young teen), so  legally changed my name to Ellen maiden-name husband's name.  At work, I went by all 3 names.  In my personal life, I just use dh's name.  Growing up, I just remembered many kids having different last names and it sounded chaotic to me.  Nowadays, it seems that there are so many variations that I worried over nothing.  I don't have any regrets over changing my last name as my maiden name was spelled differently than most people expect and it always took forever to get things right (on legal documents, financial accounts, you name it.) 

 

One of my friends was not married in the states and you actually couldn't legally change your name to your spouse's name.  So she kept hers.  I have another friend who decided with her husband to come up with a new surname for both of them, to symbolize starting a new family.  It was definitely a response to their feminist ideals and a political statement.  They are now divorced, but both kept the name. 

[goldberry]

I took DH's name.  I wish I had kept my maiden name as my middle, but I didn't.  Meh.  No big deal.

 

I have two friends who kept their names, and their children do they hyphenated thing.  My only opinion about it is that it is really inconvenient for the kids.

 

I have a SIL who kept her name, very much as a statement.  When people would accidentally refer to her as "Mrs. DHlast name" she would FREAK and go off on them with a lengthy rant.  I think that was uncalled for.  I could see being annoyed if someone knew and refused to address you by your legal name.  But as someone else mentioned, it's normal in some circumstances for people to just assume. 

[MrsBasil]

I am 33 and I took my husband's last name when we married 12 years ago. I have yet to regret that decision. We almost both changed our names to DH's mother's maiden name since her side of the family helped raise him and his father's family had a rotten reputation in the small towns DH grew up in.

 

In the end, we just went with DH's given last name. Neither of us was religious at all when we got married, we were both pretty disbelieving of God at all and we were fairly liberal. Having the same last name just made us seem more like a family in our minds.

 

Almost everyone I know who is married and in their late 20s to mid 30s has taken their husband's last name, even those on second marriages or people who had established lives well into their 30s with their maiden name. I know some people in long term partnerships and they've kept their given names. All of them have given their children the last name of the male partner.

 

I don't care at all whether or not someone keeps or changes their last name, but I would appreciate being told if I am calling them by the wrong name. I would assume a last name change after a wedding, but would apologize and move on if I was informed I was incorrect. Of the 10 women I know who have gotten married this year, they have all changed their name.

[Evergreen State Sue]

I took my dh's last name as my last name, dropped my middle name, and used the first initial from my maiden name as my middle initial.  I know that the initial stands for my maiden name, but my maiden name is not spelled out on any legal documents.  My three initials actual spell something, and I thought that was kind of cool!

 

I know of a co-worker who kept her maiden name when she married.  Her reasoning was if she was going to take a man's name, she thought it should be her father's who she is related to by blood. 

 

I also know of a couple who took part of his name and part of her name and made up a new name for the both of them as their last name.  That was confusing because I don't think they did it legally, but it would appear on their Christmas cards.  After they had their first child, then ended up picking an entirely new name for their family name.  The name was meaningful to them as a family. 

[scoutingmom]

Maybe I don't understand. Doesn't that already happen to roughly 50% of the marrying population (all the women, until very, very recent years)? Seems like geneology is made no more difficult or easy by name changes. There are name changes that do make geneology difficult - like ethnic families feeling like they had to change their names to blend in, or the lost names because of inconsistent slave records and the fact that slaves didn't have surnames by which they could be easily tracked.

 

My hyphenating would seem to make me easier to track. I'm still identified with my original family name, and, going forward, into the family I married into. Seems like I've made it easier for my descendants to "find" me.

But it is more confusing, as before you had societal norms to tell you what to look for. In Genealogy you tend to go back in time. So (using North America's previous norms), you would find the parents names of a person on their Birth Certificate. If it was relatively recent, that would include the Mother's maiden name.... if further back in time, you would look for that couple's marriage certificate which would (and often their parents names). Or if looking on a census that is old enough not to specify family relationships in a household, you could make the educated guess based on names, ages etc. Someone of a different name might be a relative, or a boarder, or servant, or other. At some point back in time you can't research the female lines (or not easily), partly because of their name changes, and partly because of status. And eventually you can only trace aristocracy, then eventually just royalty.

 

Othe naming practices of other countries are harder. John Peterson.... then you are looking for his father who is named Peter ???son.... say it turns out to be Oleson. Then you again don't even know the name yoh are looking for exfept his first name is Ole or Oles..... I have never had to do this type of research but it is hard.

 

And people just choosing to change their name for no reason is even harder.... especially if done during a move. Hard!

 

But the future genealogists will look at census records and see various names in a household.... well, I guess the relationship is listed.... You have a person's married name.... but there would be no hints to what their birthname might be at all.... the same? Different? Is that hyphinated name from the 2 parents.... or from 2 parents further down the tree? What a mess.

 

Mind you, I expect the main issue Genealogists of the future will have is probably most records, being mostly just digital, will have become inaccessible (old formats on old storage devices that are no longer used), or totally gone.

 

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