Halcyon Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Before I had kids, I had a potty mouth. I managed to control myself when they were little, but over the last year, I have been resuming my bad habit. DH hates it, and both my kids hate it. They hate bad language, and get upset when I let one slip. Personally, I don't think it's that big of deal as long as it's not that often, but that's neither here nor there. My kids hate it, and DH hates it, so I need to stop. I know some people say "Just stop." but when i get annoyed or ticked or frustrated or depressed (which I am now, which often couples with a quick temper) my usage rises. Any ideas? Please don't quote. This is mortifying enough as it is :closedeyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenn- Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I can't see the age of your children on the phone, but how about a mommy sticker chart. Start with a 12 hr goal and work your way up to a 7 consecutive days goal. It you reach your goals, a sweet treat for after dinner at the beginning and a trip to the favorite dessert place when you can go a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I had a foul mouth as a teen, too, and it does creep back. I find that it's important that I don't hear it elsewhere. If I hear it, it seems to trigger it. So staying away from sources where I might hear it helps me. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 … staying away from sources where I might hear it helps me. :iagree: Also, how about a substitute word or phrase? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiche Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 How about using silly substitutes? (Cheese and crackers, chicken picking rice, christopher Columbus...). Or you could try using a different language. Singing an aria when you need a release (doesn't have to be a real one. Just something loud to blow off steam)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junie Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You've gotten some good advice above. All I have to add is :grouphug: . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The above are good strategies. If you really do want to adopt this goal. But you also need to realize that, honestly, the fact that your family members have a pet peeve about you isn't always a reason to change yourself. It might be an opportunity for them to learn to accept you: warts and all. Personally, I never mind trying to change myself for the sake of my own values... But I always resent doing it if others are imposing on me and trying to make me feel ashamed of myself for no reason. That resentment would totally derail me. I need the strength of a "me" motivation. "You" motivations always change inside me to very powerful "You're not the boss of me!" Anti-motivation. What I'm trying to say is that you probably won't be able to stop swearing if it is only something that others "hate about you" -- but you will if it is honestly something you want to quit for your own reasons. So that makes questioning your motives 'step one' of an effective strategy. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I like the old fashioned rubber band around the wrist to snap each time you make that mistake technique. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I don't like to be uncomfortable, so when I'm trying to make a habit change, I try to make the old habit very uncomfortable. It's a negative way, and some don't like that, but it seems I need a negative sometimes. YMMV. (An example for your situation would be a fine for cursing. But for me, I'd have to make that fine really unreasonable, say, $20 or something, and I'd have to find someone to keep me accountable.You could do something like 20 situps for every word said in front of the kids, and you have to do them right then--so it can be negative but lighthearted and so positive, too.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 This is my biggest character flaw. I try, really I f*@%ing do. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wabi Sabi Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You're an adult. If you want to try to break a habit for your own sake, then by all means try some of the other suggestions offered here. But if it's just who you are and your family doesn't like it? #@$% them. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Please, don't be mortified! :grouphug: As "flaws" go, I consider that to be a pretty minor one, if it even IS one! It's great that you want to change for the sake of your husband and kids, but goodness it's not like you're hurting them or anything! I think you've already received some great advice, and I have nothing to add to that. I just wanted to say, don't beat yourself up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 This is my biggest character flaw. I try, really I f*@%ing do. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 I am made to feel quite bad about it, tbh. Older ds is at the age when he will throw things back in my face when I try to correct him. He'll say things like "well, I may do that, but you say inappropriate words!" so i feel like it undermines my authority. To be clear, it's not a constant thing, nor is it solely when i am angry. Sometimes I will be joking with a friend and i will say something like "blah blah blah such a shitty thing to do" or something...and I just mean it as a descriptor, not as a curse word, kwim? I think i need to keep a calendar where i mark off the number of days I've been good. At the end of a certain number, i get a massage. :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara in Colo Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I too had a potty mouth and I still do to some extent-- I did, however manage to stop the bad words from flowing without conscious thought on my part-- now when I say the F word - I MEANT to say the F word, I really worked hard at saying a word with the same first sound and then I replaced it altogether. Now when I hit my hand with a hammer I say ouch! But at first it was "frick and frack". Now I just need to stop saying the words I mean to say... but honestly I think that some words shouldn't be bad. If you are acting like a donkey-- I should be able to call you one. If you are acting like a female dog- I should be able to call you one.-- If someone can BE that way, why is it bad that I call them on it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 It's probably easier to break this habit now than down the road when you don't want to be Grandma Potty Mouth. Good luck, I vote for coming up with fun substitutes. Somewhere on the 'net there is a Medieval cursing list which is pretty funny. They're made up to sound Medieval, I'm sure not genuine from the period. Maybe they have those too. Meanwhile, I bite my thumb at thee! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara in Colo Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 BTW-- I tell the children they too, can curse, when they pay the bills and have all the pressures of adulthood. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 In all seriousness, I come from a very dysfunctional family. I've worked super hard to break a lot of cycles. I will always be working on it, but I have really made vast improvements over the childhood experience I had with my parents, for my own kids. (It helps that I do not have undiagnosed mental illness and addictions.) Now, I NEVER swear AT my kids. I still yell too much, but I've made a lot of improvement there too. So what I'm trying to say is that the swearing is kind of my last thing left to fix, and I actually really like saying bad words. :lol: :lol: :lol: I definitely don't swear in front of other people's kids, and I'm really trying to have a better reaction when I'm angry, but if I'm being honest, I doubt I'll ever stop completely. :ph34r: In short, I justify my potty mouth by telling myself I could be a lot worse. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiche Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Shakespeare insult kit: http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/shake_rule.html :laugh: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I was really hoping for a much more embarrassing confession. :lol: I'd suggest the tips from Tiny Habits http://tinyhabits.com/ & I'd suggest daily mindfulness meditation & gratitude journaling to address the blurted out in anger ones, because both those activities reduce anger.For the conversational ones, I'd suggest simply slowing down. Slow down and be more deliberate about your conversation.And I think your idea of rewarding yourself after success is great. I'd put in a small reward at the end of one day, then a bigger reward at the end of 3, then an even bigger at the end of 7, and a really fun one at the end of 30. Assess constantly whether the reinforcement schedule is sufficient. If you're not succeeding, then you need to continue putting in changes to the environment and increase rewards for positive bhvr.At the end of 30 days, reassess how hard this new bhvr is for you and whether you need to continue to reward. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I struggle with this too, and it is true that you can go a long time and then it creeps back. I notice it creeps back when other old thinking I had creeps back in. So I do better when I keep my mind full of good things. For instance, right now I have been reading lots of books about getting rich for my business. Like The Secret, Think and Grow Rich, The Science of Getting Rich, and they all have lots of positive talk about controlling what you think about and I have been doing really good in the last month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Try hanging around someone who uses words that make you uncomfortable! I have an acquaintance who has an overall cleaner mouth than I do, but she has a few choice words that *really* stand out. After spending a day with her, I'm good for about a week. It also helps when I'm around young kids who curse a lot (my son does at home as well), and it reminds me to watch what I'm modeling for my son. And the flip side; hanging out with people who never seem to let anything slip. However, this doesn't have as much of an impact as the opposite. *this just after I told him to pick the sh*t up he tossed during a tantrum. :( I'm working on it, but not perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerileanne99 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Ha! I entered the army from Idaho with nary a curse word in my vocabulary...and emerged four years later with an extremely creative and colorful @$&@ing repertoire of new words. The army make swearing its own language, a true art form. Seriously, you can get by with mostly acronyms and curse words. The F-word alone can be made into just about any part of speech:) So when I was pregnant with my dd my hubby and I decided something drastic was called for. We made a jar. Then we went to the bank for a serious stash of $1 bills. We EACH started with 200, lol. Every time one of us swore you had to put $1 of your stash in the jar. But we were competing, and this made it fun. The first person to run out of money was the loser, and their money used to treat us as a couple: the winner got to keep their $200 as a personal treat. I actually think we ended up using all of it for a get away, but that was the idea:) It worked, mostly! I still reserve the right to swear with purpose. Using curse words strategically can add great impact to your words, but only when used sparingly:) I have taught my dd5 this, although only in context of explaining words she hears from others so far. As she gets older I am sure she will hear mom or dad slip occasionally and this is the approach we plan to take. The words themselves are not 'bad' but people judge you when you use them...therefore it is a tool to be used just like with all words. A time and a place... And right now the time is usually after the kids are in bed:) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You must be my twin. Cursing is my worst habit (well, behind eating myself to an early death) and I am trying to stop. I had success for a while just by reminding myself that I am harming my kids by doing it and allowing myself to curse in the most vile way, but silently. Before I had kids, I had a potty mouth. I managed to control myself when they were little, but over the last year, I have been resuming my bad habit. DH hates it, and both my kids hate it. They hate bad language, and get upset when I let one slip. Personally, I don't think it's that big of deal as long as it's not that often, but that's neither here nor there. My kids hate it, and DH hates it, so I need to stop. I know some people say "Just stop." but when i get annoyed or ticked or frustrated or depressed (which I am now, which often couples with a quick temper) my usage rises. Any ideas? Please don't quote. This is mortifying enough as it is :closedeyes: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Count me in! I was also hoping for something far more embarrassing, but I struggle too. I have gotten a lot better, but if I am extremely stressed (say, not sleeping for a few days) and I'm triggered, I BLOW like crazy. I hate it so much. :grouphug: Usually I can steer away from it by exhaling hard, shifting it into unintelligible mumbling, or bleeping myself out. It's definitely a long process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I am made to feel quite bad about it, tbh. Older ds is at the age when he will throw things back in my face when I try to correct him. He'll say things like "well, I may do that, but you say inappropriate words!" so i feel like it undermines my authority. To be clear, it's not a constant thing, nor is it solely when i am angry. Sometimes I will be joking with a friend and i will say something like "blah blah blah such a shitty thing to do" or something...and I just mean it as a descriptor, not as a curse word, kwim? I think i need to keep a calendar where i mark off the number of days I've been good. At the end of a certain number, i get a massage. :) When my kids have been logic stage one fallacy they have indulged in is that they should not have to do anything that anyone who is not perfect tells them to do. That is a fallacy, lol. Your ds does not have to wait for you to be perfect before he accepts correction from you, and I would not let him get away with that thinking. Is he going to be unkind to his wife when she asks him to make changes because she is not perfect? His boss? I would not tolerate that kind of thinking. If your kids and husband think that you need to be perfect for them to take you seriously, they are the problem, not you. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Well, first, I agree with Bolt that you will need to want to improve for you, not for your dh or kids. I'm afraid that if the motivation is external, you won't enjoy much or easy success in breaking this habit. Second, I get the mouthy kids. My almost 14 yo son and 12 yo daughter are past masters at this type of manipulation (and that is what it is). I've learned to say to my kids that there are some things that adults can do/say/etc and to stop being so disrespectful. This isn't a zero sum game unless you let it be one. Your occasional cursing really has nothing to do with correcting/disciplining your ds; so, don't engage on that front. [And I do realize how hard it can be to resist engaging teens - see my second sentence :) Sometimes you just want to :smash: their precious (not so) little noggins. Or is that just me?] It's really disrespectful, in my rarely humble opinion, for your dh to make you feel bad, especially if he does so in front of your boys. I think it's perfectly fine for him to say, "Gee, hon, I really don't like it when you curse like that." But to make you feel bad? Maybe I don't understand what he's saying, but that would royally piss me off and probably make me curse more. Not very mature, I realize that; but (shhh, don't tell anyone as I have a reputation to uphold here :cool: ), I'm only human. So, I think the first thing to decide is whether or not you want to break this habit for you because you want to and not because of anyone else. If you do, there are some great suggestions in the thread. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You can totally do this for them. The 100 pounds that I lost I may have mentioned once or twice here (or 20 or so times) was for my kids. I couldn't have done that for myself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 When my kids have been logic stage one fallacy they have indulged in is that they should not have to do anything that anyone who is not perfect tells them to do. That is a fallacy, lol. Your ds does not have to wait for you to be perfect before he accepts correction from you, and I would not let him get away with that thinking. Is he going to be unkind to his wife when she asks him to make changes because she is not perfect? His boss? I would not tolerate that kind of thinking. If your kids and husband think that you need to be perfect for them to take you seriously, they are the problem, not you. :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: Halcyon, I'm a pretty relaxed parent, but I would not let a statement like that go. Trying to deflect blame by pointing out a totally unrelated "flaw" in someone else is both illogical and disrespectful. I would nip that in the bud right now, not only because he is disrespecting you, but because it encourages the idea that this is a reasonable argument, which will cause him a lot of trouble in the future. Next time he tries to play that card, I would reply something like this: "Yes, I do sometimes curse. However, that is my business, not yours, and it has absolutely nothing to do with hitting your brother. Please tell him you're sorry and then go to your room." Lather, rinse, repeat. Also, since you said that using an occasional curse word doesn't really bother you, and it's primarily their issue, I would discuss with them that although it's impolite to curse in certain situations, a well-placed curse word is not always "inappropriate." Every culture has curse words, and they're there for a reason. If your husband and sons choose to not ever utter a single curse word in their entire lives, that is certainly their choice, but if you chose to use a few words here and there when you consider them appropriate, that is also your choice. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You're not alone.... I've struggled with this too. It does seem to come and go but I'd much prefer if it went. Lately, it's been resurrecting itself. I like the rubber band idea!! Definitely going to give that one a try. I do talk with my kids and let them know that I am not proud of this in myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 THAT'S YOUR EMBARRASSING CONFESSION??? :svengo: Oh honey, you're gonna have to do way better than that!!! ;) 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 What Slache and a few others suggested has actually merit in some CBT techniques. It is easy to do and worth trying. Tie a rubber band to your wrist and snap yourself every time you slip into profanity. Just remember that change does usually not come overnight but is a process, however, there is some data that after a month of changing one's behavior (in general), the chance for lasting improvement is very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 My mom always apologized after swearing (which usually occurred in traffic jams and when she was cut off). I think it helped her be more aware of it, which helped her stop. I think she now swears about once or twice a year. Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I think you need to teach your kids to lighten up, and you need to deflect your dh's crappy attitude with some humor. Swear words don't kill people, they're heard more and more in public, and if your kids are going to be so fragile that they get a stroke every time someone drops the f-bomb, they'll never make it to their 18th birthday. If it were me, I'd inject humor in this as much as possible. Make self-deprecating jokes (as long as they're funny, to show you can't be manipulated because their outrage is ridiculous), and show your kids that while you're trying, you're not going to be held hostage to their standards. This is swear words, not arson after all. Kids should have thicker skin than freaking out about swear words. As far as undermining your authority, don't let them distract you from their responsibility. "Nevertheless" was my favorite word in times like this: "You need to cut the attitude and stop complaining and just finish your math." "Yeah? Well YOU need to cut the attitude and stop swearing all the time!""Nevertheless, your math needs to be finished. I'll check up on you in 20 minutes." 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Add me to those who agree that you can do this for your family if you want to. There's nothing at all wrong with loving someone enough that one changes their ways (in manners like this) for them. It's part of the compromise of relationships. I don't do many things for others, but I do try to live in ways that don't offend others I'm around. And for hubby, a man I love more than anyone else, yes, there are things in my life I'm doing for him. He wouldn't leave me or anything like that if I didn't. It wouldn't change our relationship. It's just being sensitive to his thoughts. I could stomp on his thoughts if I wanted to I suppose, but I know he also changes his ways and does things for me simply because he knows it's something I like. I'm not so self-centered that I need everything to be my way. That said, bribes rewards work fairly well for me. When I do things I don't want to do (whether hubby's wishes are part of it or not), I always manage to reward myself. It could be time to myself, a food treat, a trip, or whatever else I deem worthy of my effort. We do this for kids because it works at making some things less painful. Why stop when we're adults? Because we're adults? That's not a very good reason IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Lack of sleep also triggers all sorts of bad behavior in me, via my temper, so getting enough sleep was important to me in cutting down the cursing. OP, can you identify your triggers? Count me in! I was also hoping for something far more embarrassing, but I struggle too. I have gotten a lot better, but if I am extremely stressed (say, not sleeping for a few days) and I'm triggered, I BLOW like crazy. I hate it so much. :grouphug: Usually I can steer away from it by exhaling hard, shifting it into unintelligible mumbling, or bleeping myself out. It's definitely a long process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 LOL - this is not embarrassing at all. Honestly, I think kids should lighten up and that's the stance I have taken with my own kids. I really don't think you can judge someone's character by the occasional swear word. Especially in context in a casual/relaxed setting. I always tell my kid to know their audience and speak appropriately. I just do not think swearing is that big of a deal AT ALL. I'm the worst driving. My kids also know in more formal settings and with certain people, I can turn that off completely. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Hey, science says swearing can help relieve pain. (The Mythbusters even did an experiment on it too.) Maybe it's helping you ease the pain of having two tweens? ;) :lol: 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 re the snapping rubber band, there is ongoing research on this but most data indicates that rewards work better. Some of the most interesting research actually looks at the brain & areas which are activated. Tasks learned with rewards light up different areas of the brain. It is neurochemically a completely different process. One of the most interesting findings is that you get more durable behavior change with rewards because it enhances learning.from one study where they tried both & then imaged brains: Differential Effect of Reward and Punishment on Procedural Learning (journal of neuroscience) "Both manipulations had a measurable effect on behavior and deciding which is preferable depends on whether one is interested in short term changes in performance without enhancement of learning or longer term changes in learning itself. Only the reward group showed enhanced implicit learning of the motor sequence; though the punished group also learned they did not do any better than the control subjects. The lack of an effect of punishment on learning, though there were clear effects on other aspects of behavior (see Fig.1), was surprising and would not necessarily have been predicted on the basis of the reinforcement learning literature. B.F. Skinner regarded punishment as a ‘questionable technique’, speculated as to whether it actually worked, and stressed the fact that even when it did, its effects tended to be short lived (Skinner, 1953)."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2765863/On the other hand, just having a band on (perhaps one of the silicone 'cause' bracelets or a bracelet made for you by a child) might be a visual cue to remind you to pause & make a different choice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I never swore until depression and anxiety. Now I swear pretty regularly both when upset and in everyday conversation. I see it as a sign that my brain is dealing with things more important than vocabulary regulation. Just because it was an old habit doesn't mean that now it isn't stress related. (Hugs) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Before I had kids, I had a potty mouth. I managed to control myself when they were little, but over the last year, I have been resuming my bad habit. DH hates it, and both my kids hate it. They hate bad language, and get upset when I let one slip. Personally, I don't think it's that big of deal as long as it's not that often, but that's neither here nor there. My kids hate it, and DH hates it, so I need to stop. I know some people say "Just stop." but when i get annoyed or ticked or frustrated or depressed (which I am now, which often couples with a quick temper) my usage rises. Any ideas? Please don't quote. This is mortifying enough as it is :closedeyes: Can you wean away by changing the words? Maybe adapt some old school sayings? "By goodness Jimeny cricket!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I think I have a solution for you. Every time you swear, you have to send me five dollars. I accept PayPal. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 THAT'S YOUR EMBARRASSING CONFESSION??? :svengo: Oh honey, you're gonna have to do way better than that!!! ;) You'd think she was new around here or something... ;) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 What Slache and a few others suggested has actually merit in some CBT techniques. It is easy to do and worth trying. Tie a rubber band to your wrist and snap yourself every time you slip into profanity. Just remember that change does usually not come overnight but is a process, however, there is some data that after a month of changing one's behavior (in general), the chance for lasting improvement is very good. Or snap a rubber band on DH or DS as they're the ones who have problems with it? ;) Kidding. Mostly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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