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[alisoncooks]

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Edited July 27, 2022 by alisoncooks

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Are these skills hard for other kids?

 

I'm convinced my oldest DD will be wearing Velcro shoes as an adult. Seriously, :D learning to tie shoes has been a dismal failure here. I remember learning in kindergarten -- and being given extra practice because I was behind my peers. DD is going into FOUTH!

 

I've also noticed many girls her age can put in a ponytail on their own. DD cannot do that either -- we've tried. It's like there is a brain-hand disconnect, with too many steps to remember.

 

This same DD had trouble learning to read (just finally picked it up at Christmas). Perhaps these things are related? What has worked for your child?

 

I have one that didn't learn to tie shoes until age 10/11, sometimes the fine motor skills just aren't there.

[Beaniemom]

My ds was diagnosed with developmental coordination disorder among other things and goes to OT. They are working on shoe tieing using the doughnut method. You can google for directions but it seems much easier than the traditional method for anyone with motor difficulties.

[PeachyDoodle]

Well... I didn't learn to put up a ponytail until high school. My baby sister (9 years younger) could do it before I could. To this day, I still can't use a curling iron or any kind of styling apparatus besides a hair dryer. I just keep a really low-maintenance style. My mother used to get so frustrated and ask me if she was was going to have to go with me on my honeymoon to do my hair (FTR: she didn't :D ). But something about the awkward angle has just never clicked for me.

 

My dd10 has been tying her shoes since kindy but she still doesn't tie them well. They're always loose and coming untied. If you watch her you can tell she hasn't mastered the motions; that's why they're loose. Heaven help us if that poor child ever wanted to do anything more than brush her hair. I keep her in a low-maintenance bob as well -- and even that has its days. That's a function of not really caring how she looks, though. I expect it may change as she moves into adolescence.

 

Not sure about the connection to reading. Both dd and I were early and advanced readers. There could be a connection, I suppose, but it sounds like a motor skills issue to me. Practice and patience are probably the prescription here.

[MrsWeasley]

With my first, I was really uptight about tying shoes and had her learn as a preschooler. My current five year old cannot tie his shoes. My eight year old learned to put her hair in a very messy pony tail for swimming last year with a traditional hair tie, but this summer, I've become a hair bungee convert, and they are much easier for kids to use:I don't want to sound like an adbot, but I'm even teaching my five year old to use it. My eldest was an early reader. My five year old is pretty average for his age. 

[fairfarmhand]

My 13 yo can't ponytail her hair well at all.

 

She has very thick heavy hair and even I hate messing with it. So I'm not surprised that with her hair texture it's hard for her.

 

I can't remember about tying her shoes, but I do know that reading was a little late for her (3rd grade) and fine motor stuff like scissors and sewing are not things she does well.

 

However, she is an amazing artist. So go figure.

[Tanaqui]

I didn't learn to tie my shoes until I was in my double digits, and I was older still when I was able to make a ponytail (though admittedly, as my mother did my hair, I had no incentive to learn). However, I am autistic, and this sort of fine motor issue is fairly common among autistics. (Not universal, though.)

 

Given that your daughter has trouble with those fine motor skills AND she also had some real trouble learning how to read, it might be wise to have her evaluated for a learning disability. I'm not saying she *does* have one, just that it may be a possibility.

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree with Tanaqui.  Get an evaluation.  It could also show you any hidden strengths she has that may be currently untapped.  Better to be safe than wait and end up having to start remediation of some kind when she is a resistant teenager.  Yes, those things can be related, although not always.  How is her handwriting?  

[alisoncooks]

Her handwriting isn't bad -- she's currently learning cursive so it's a bit wobbly. :)

 

Would I still need an eval if she's made progress up to near grade-level recently?  She's very math-strong and interested in all things science and history.  Reading/writing/spelling were her only struggle areas.  Now that reading has caught itself up, I was hoping spelling and writing would soon follow.

 

 

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone!  Glad to know she isn't the only one out there who ISN'T tying her shoes or fixing her own hair.  (I have never been hair-savvy... the BEST I can do is a regular 3-strand braid and a ponytail.  :001_rolleyes: )

[SKL]

My kids were not late at shoe tying, but the one who learned first was also the earliest reader.  BUT she still (age 8) doesn't tie the laces tightly enough most of the time.  I'm not sure if her issue is physical or just plain carelessness.  :P

 

As for hair, one of my daughters is fascinated by hair, so she was motivated to learn how to style it.  I believe she was 5, maybe 6 when she taught herself to make a pony tail.  My other kid is not into hair styling, and while I think she can do a pony tail, I'm not sure.

[wintermom]

My dc wore velcro shoes until about age 7, then they learned to tie shoes because they had to. Some of them are better at it that others. Some like wearing large shoes so they can just slip them on and off and not have to bothering with the laces. I usually tie their hockey skates until age 10 or so because the laces have to be tight for a proper fit, which is tough for younger children to do.

 

My dd has never put her hair in a ponytail because she hates them. I have no idea if she can do this or not. I do my own ponytail now (often missing back hairs), but have no idea how old I was when I started because I always had short hair.

 

I don't consider these 2 tasks as indicators of a learning disorder on their own. In fact, they seem to be very specific to circumstances and motivation. Couldn't a person go through their entire life having never tied a shoe lace or put their hair in a ponytail?

[Ali in OR]

My middle dd was over ten before she was tying her own shoes. I think a lot of the delay was just lack of opportunity--she rarely wore shoes that needed to be tied.

[foxbridgeacademy]

DS, who is dyslexic, also had a lot of trouble tying his shoes and doing small motor activities (like writing) until around 12 or so.  Not that he's "all better" but it has gotten easier for him.  What I think helped was that I stopped buying him velcro shoes and he would have to regularly try to tie shoes (I ended up doing the tying for awhile) but eventually he got it and now has no issues.  He's a super smart kid, great at eye-hand coordination (throwing a ball, playing FPS XBOX games) but the little stuff always throws him for a loop.

[Tanaqui]

 

Would I still need an eval if she's made progress up to near grade-level recently?  She's very math-strong and interested in all things science and history. Reading/writing/spelling were her only struggle areas.  Now that reading has caught itself up, I was hoping spelling and writing would soon follow.

 

Being at grade level might not be the same as working at her full potential, though.

 

I mean, I think of it this way: If you get an eval, and it says "Wow, kid is just fine!", you're out a little money and a little time.

 

If you get an eval and it says "Needs some serious help", then you know. Either way, no harm done.

 

But if you don't get an eval, there's a 50% chance that she does need help and you DON'T know. So why not get it done now?

 

[Dmmetler]

DD10 didn't learn to tie her shoes until last year, when she got embarrassed because the college students she was doing field work with would say "oh, honey, let me get that for you". She can put her (waist long and thick, but super-fine textured) hair in a ponytail with a hair clip or bungee-type hair tie, but not a traditional elastic)-we worked on that hard this year because she's going to her first sleep away program this summer, and she can't do bio or chem lab stuff with hair getting on the way.

[scoutingmom]

I taught my oldest 2 how to do shoelaces at 6...... but they forgot and still really can't at a 9 and 11. I had to buy them both shoes with laces as we couldn't find velcro ones that fit. They tie them and then it comes undone and it is driving me nuts. The funny thing is they can both tie a few knots for scouts.....

 

I do think it is less needed and may eventually not be needed at all. After all, I have no idea how to use a button-hook to do up boots!

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[Mom22ns]

I'm pretty sure my oldest was at least 10, maybe 11 before he could tie shoes. I had given up and thought he'd be wearing velcro as an adult. My youngest could tie by 3 and could do her own ponytails before she went to K. 

 

That said, ds did have some issues and did OT from age 3-12. Those may be signs of a need for evaluation.

[Storygirl]

How does she do with buttons, zippers, opening candy wrappers or chip bags, twisting twist ties etc? If her fine motor skills seem to be lagging across the board, I'd suggest asking your pediatrician for a referral to an occupational therapist. If she is just having trouble with shoe tying and hair styling, she might just need more practice.

[Chris in VA]

Does she ride a bike?

[pitterpatter]

Two things. One, I think being home with our children all of the time, we tend to accommodate a lot for the sake of speed, cleanliness, etc. (Or, at least I do.) DD is an only child and it is so much quicker/easier for me to just do things. For example, I used to get her a Capri Sun out of the fridge and just naturally poked the straw through so that the wrapper got in the trash and liquid didn't get squirted everywhere. I open her Lunchables because I don't want the contents to go flying and end up on the floor wasted. (If this happened at school, it might serve as a good lesson to be more careful. At home, I see it as a waste of money and if it's the last Lunchables, I'd have to fix something else and the whole point of even giving her the Lunchables was to have a quick lunch that day.) If it's a pizza one, I open the sauce so she doesn't stain her clothes. With tying shoes, we don't often leave the house and then when we do, we're often in a hurry. If it's summer, we often wear flip-flops. I kept forgetting to teach her how to tie her shoes. If she were in public school, she would have to do a lot more for herself and opportunity for a lot more practice (think how many times school kids have to zip jackets).

 

Two, having said all this, I think DD may be dyspraxic (she's likely dyslexic too...various dys-es tend to go together). She has a hard time opening convenience packages. She's the only one who does most times at Girl Scouts. She can tie her shoes, but it was a challenge to learn. They still aren't tight enough most of the time. She struggles with zipping jackets, especially when it's a cheap or finicky zipper. She pushes down (and wiggles them back up) buttoned pants so she doesn't have to fiddle with the button. She can't put her hair in a ponytail, but it's really long right now. We're going to work on that after getting it cut. She's not great at washing/conditioning her own hair. We're working on that too. She doesn't enjoy the act of handwriting. I could go on and on. (Oddly enough, she had no problems riding a bike after a week or two of training wheels. Never wobbled over or wrecked.)

[alisoncooks]

DD does pretty well with most fine motor things. She's been riding a bike since she was 5.

 

Pitterpatter - you may have a point. I probably do things for her to make it go more quickly. We all wear flip flops most of the time...but if she wears sneakers, she keeps them tied and just pulls them on (I do this, too). She also prefers to keep pants buttoned, if possible, and just wiggle them up.

 

Her hair is very long -- near waist-length. That might be one reason it's so difficult.

 

I'm thinking perhaps she just needs more practice. This summer might be a good time to have a ponytail/shoe-tying bootcamp!

[Chris in VA]

Some in my family have automatic processing disorder. It means they have to really think thru things that most can do automatically, like tie shoes. They eventually got there, but it took longer to become automatic.

Just a thought.

 

Agreeing it may be a practice thing.

[Laura Corin]

I have one that didn't learn to tie shoes until age 10/11, sometimes the fine motor skills just aren't there.

 

Calvin didn't tie his shoes until age 9 or 10, around the same time he learned to ride a bike.  He didn't learn to put his hair in a ponytail until he was about 17, but his hair was a bit short for it until then.

[pitterpatter]

This is what we're doing too. DD's hair is about waist-length. She is getting it cut to just past her shoulders and then donating the rest. After that, we are going to really have her practice washing/conditioning her own hair, putting it in a ponytail and generally becoming a little more self-sufficient. DD can dress her teeny-weeny dolls and build Legos with few problems, but zippers and buttons, och! Then again, she's had more practice with these whereas we hardly leave the house in comparison to traditional school kids. The clothes she wears here are more comfortable...a lot of T-shirts and elastic pants/shorts. I don't have her wear good clothes to stain while playing outside, etc., so she might wear a button pair of jeans or shorts maybe, maybe once every other week. We tend to buy her GAP jeans, which often have those slide fasteners these days, so a snap or button pair is fairly rare.

 

DD does pretty well with most fine motor things. She's been riding a bike since she was 5.

Pitterpatter - you may have a point. I probably do things for her to make it go more quickly. We all wear flip flops most of the time...but if she wears sneakers, she keeps them tied and just pulls them on (I do this, too). She also prefers to keep pants buttoned, if possible, and just wiggle them up.

Her hair is very long -- near waist-length. That might be one reason it's so difficult.

I'm thinking perhaps she just needs more practice. This summer might be a good time to have a ponytail/shoe-tying bootcamp!

 

[Farrar]

Ds10 (who has very long hair) can't ponytail it. The fact that it turned out dh couldn't manage to do it either helped me think that maybe I was being unreasonable about thinking he should absolutely be able to do it by now. I have him practice on my hair. He's not really improving much though.

 

Both ds10 can tie shoes but the shoes are so rarely tie shoes that they very quickly fall out of practice with it. And they understandably get frustrated because their ties never last long and need to be retied.

[rimk3]

DS 9 just learned how to tie his shoes after refusing to wear any shoes with laces for years.  My husband showed him (and me) how to tie with the

and ds had it down in one evening and hasn't looked back.  The Ian knot is fast and rarely comes untied and that's a win for kids!   :thumbup1:  There is a learning curve if you have tied the traditional way for years, but once you get it and can teach that way first, the child gets it quickly and pretty painlessly.

 

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

This is sort of an embarrassing parent moment for me, but my kids have had Velcro so much that we didn't really sit and learn to tie shoes yet. He learned fancy knots in scouts, but not tying shoes. My youngest recently got a pair of shoes, and the last couple of weeks, he has been asking me how to do it, and I showed him, and he is getting the hang of it rather quickly. Imo, they learn most of these things eventually and quickly when they are ready.

[MEmama]

DS was riding a bike without trainers and ice skating on his own at 2, reading by 3, and just around 11 got comfortable enough tying his shoes. It still takes him awhile, but at 12 he doesn't ask for help anymore. Opening wrappers, handwriting, and so forth...it's coming, if slowly. His motivation is stronger than his fine motor abilities, but I have the sense it will all even out.

 

It sounds to me like plenty of kids take their time with these skills. I doubt many will struggle as adults.

[Tsuga]

I think it's unusual to tie a knot in K nowadays, because I taught my kids who learned quickly at five and people are amazed.

 

But with your daughter it sounds like there might be a more general issue so I'd go for the evaluation.

[luuknam]

I haven't tried to teach either kid either of those (not that their hair is long enough for ponytails really). They don't own shoes with laces. I asked C last time we bought shoes if he wanted shoes with laces, and he said no. I prefer to not wear shoes with laces either, even though I can tie shoes just fine (got my shoe-tying diploma in K). It's just not a priority.

 

I have no idea how much practice is normal at w/e age to learn how to tie your shoes.

[Ausmumof3]

Youtube taught my kid to tie shoelaces... Really!

 

We found a good video and let him watch it 100x till he got it. I'm really bad at teaching stuff like that so I took a shortcut.

 

But my ds will still pick his elastic sides boots most of the time because he's too lazy to so them up.

[Kakids]

Thank you for the Ian knot link!

I think this might finally work.  DS can tie a shoe if he stops, takes his time, and really tries.  It's been mostly a one time, one shoe deal.  I have high hopes for how the Ian knot will work for him.  I have learned it myself, the next step is to show him...when he wakes up, lol.  Is it wrong to wake him up to teach him this?

[Julie Smith]

For shoes Youngest has these kinds of laces:

 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100CM-saft-elastic-shoe-laces-and-lock/32246303346.html?plac&gclid=Cj0KEQjwqe-rBRCv_J6qs6isp6EBEiQAmbctFj4uVxCKblT_ufL00MM6icuaV1YOw91EFARzbpNB3tQaAuz48P8HAQ&mtctp&trgt=63000991512&albag=13539119881&netw&albcp=230049721&isdl=y&currencyType=CAD&crea=en32246303346&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&albch=shopping&slnk&device=c&src=google&acnt=494-037-6276

 

 

[pitterpatter]

When I was in kindergarten in the early 80s, I remember being taught and tested on tying shoes. I was surprised to learn last year that most first graders in DD's Girl Scout troop (DD included) didn't know how. I guess since you can't test it by coloring a bubble, public schools no longer teach it?

 

I think it's unusual to tie a knot in K nowadays, because I taught my kids who learned quickly at five and people are amazed.

But with your daughter it sounds like there might be a more general issue so I'd go for the evaluation.

 

[pitterpatter]

Does he/she slip his/her foot in and out each time or actually adjust them? I'm looking for something for DD's playing outside sneakers, which I require her to wear when she rides her bike.

 

For shoes Youngest has these kinds of laces:

 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100CM-saft-elastic-shoe-laces-and-lock/32246303346.html?plac&gclid=Cj0KEQjwqe-rBRCv_J6qs6isp6EBEiQAmbctFj4uVxCKblT_ufL00MM6icuaV1YOw91EFARzbpNB3tQaAuz48P8HAQ&mtctp&trgt=63000991512&albag=13539119881&netw&albcp=230049721&isdl=y&currencyType=CAD&crea=en32246303346&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&albch=shopping&slnk&device=c&src=google&acnt=494-037-6276

 

[Julie Smith]

Does he/she slip his/her foot in and out each time or actually adjust them? I'm looking for something for DD's playing outside sneakers, which I require her to wear when she rides her bike.

 

Youngest always adjusts them, and takes a really long time in doing so.

 

Dh also has those laces and never adjusts them.

[lorisuewho]

Are these skills hard for other kids?

 

I'm convinced my oldest DD will be wearing Velcro shoes as an adult. Seriously, :D learning to tie shoes has been a dismal failure here. I remember learning in kindergarten -- and being given extra practice because I was behind my peers. DD is going into FOURTH!

 

I've also noticed many girls her age can put in a ponytail on their own. DD cannot do that either -- we've tried. It's like there is a brain-hand disconnect, with too many steps to remember.

 

This same DD had trouble learning to read (just finally picked it up at Christmas). Perhaps these things are related? What has worked for your child?

 

My oldest is also going into fourth and absolutely can not tie shoes.  His first grade year I bought him one of those books with different colored laces and made him practice tying every single school day.  180 days of shoe tying.  Still could not do it.  I quit.  My oldest daughter taught herself when she was five.  I don't understand it at all.

[blondeviolin]

My oldest two can tie laces. My 7yo is better than my 9yo, but he also chooses tie shoes. My oldest CAN do it, she just can't be bothered to practice it. My 9yo can put in a ponytail with an elastic, but that's not to say her hair has been brushed through adequately. :glare:

[Targhee]

Shoe tying is still hard for my 10 yr old. Anything hair related is hard for my 12 yr old. But I think they will come. We just keep trying.

[pitterpatter]

I bought a pack of these via Amazon Prime earlier this week. I thought DD might have problems with them too, as the buttons are pretty stiff, but she likes them very much. No more complaints and she is totally independent now. :)

 

http://www.amazon.com/LACES-Elastic-Shoelace-Fastening-System/dp/B007DLVLDY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434557046&sr=8-1&keywords=lock+laces&pebp=1434557050277&perid=1BYZ7NB4ZX9E883TQEGG