Have we talked about Alecia Pennington?

[LibraryLover]

 

http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/04/intentionally-parenting-your-toddler-part-2/

[Laura Corin]

http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/04/intentionally-parenting-your-toddler-part-2/

Vile

[Katy]

Lisa Pennington appears to be editing her archived posts to make them seem less extreme and controlling.

 

Someone elsewhere quoted, and linked to, a post about children and money:

 

 

 

 

 

None of those suggestions are in the post about children and money anymore. Ir says "These are some tips for using money to teach lessons" and then doesn't give any tips - just platitudes about selfishness, appreciation, etc. http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/01/children-and-money/

 

Edited to add: The Internet Wayback Machine has the original. https://web.archive.org/web/20121122092930/http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/01/children-and-money/

 

Well, forcing someone to work without pay is slavery.  Pretty sure she can file a criminal complaint about that one and be allowed to see a judge.  Not that an abused child is likely to want to press charges.

 

[Katy]

Caught up to the whole thread now.  Would one of you who's been exploring the wayback machine please pull those quotes and submit a complaint to CPS?  If no one else will, I will, but someone really needs to intervene.

[Murphy101]

http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/04/intentionally-parenting-your-toddler-part-2/

Ugh.

 

Someone pinches my baby, I'm punching them. Possibly with their own arm that I ripped off. The trick is to understand that it's just something that happens when her fingers pinch. /sarcasm end.

 

I didn't bother reading further. That sounds like Pearl BS.

 

I can only pray the poor woman has seen the err of her ways and would change how she parented if she could go back.

 

I'm glad she is taking stuff off and making it less ... Well less whatever it was before. I hope it's bc she has learned to be a better parent over the years, but regardless, I'm glad she is no longer encouraging other mothers to parent that way.

[LibraryLover]

I don't know how, but I was able to open the original blogs in one of my windows. (Every word is there. ETA- No, I was mistaken.) That's where I found the pinching advice. For whatever reason, I'm having trouble posting here from my desktop. Says I'm not posting. I'm not tech -savvy. I'm posting now from my phone.

 

ETA: I see that this is the edited version. Sorry. I was getting content not found for the Parenting Tips links at first. Fi, the Money post in Parenting tips is the edited version that Rivka linked with the Way Back orginal.

[gardenmom5]

Martha, on 14 Feb 2015 - 3:44 PM, said:

Ugh.

 

Someone pinches my baby, I'm punching them. Possibly with their own arm that I ripped off. The trick is to understand that it's just something that happens when her fingers pinch. /sarcasm end.

 

I didn't bother reading further. That sounds like Pearl BS.

 

I can only pray the poor woman has seen the err of her ways and would change how she parented if she could go back.

 

I'm glad she is taking stuff off and making it less ... Well less whatever it was before. I hope it's bc she has learned to be a better parent over the years, but regardless, I'm glad she is no longer encouraging other mothers to parent that way.

don't hold your breath.  I think the only reason she's editing posts is cya. 

 

she's a righteous person and is being persecuted by supporters of her rebellious daughter who has been influenced by ungodly people. sarcasm off  . . .  gag.

[LibraryLover]

 

 

http://thepenningtonpoint.com/faith-points/parenting-gallery/

[Jasperstone]

I know.

 

Way up thread someone mentioned this as a religious problem instead of homeschooling issue. Or something like that. I know this board is diverse and honestly I love that. I think it's a Pearl problem. Or Gothard. Or one of those other whackos that is at the root of this particular family's issues.

Exactly, I used to know a non religious homeschooling family that was very, very authoritative. To the point of controlling the children's affection to one another. They were strict about *when* and *if* the children could cuddle, hold hands etc... Heartbreaking!

[*Lulu*]

I know.

 

Way up thread someone mentioned this as a religious problem instead of homeschooling issue. Or something like that. I know this board is diverse and honestly I love that. I think it's a Pearl problem. Or Gothard. Or one of those other whackos that is at the root of this particular family's issues.

I think you may be referring to my post.

 

I am coming at this as a Christian who is much less conservative now than how I was raised. (Did I mention I am MUCH less conservative now?)

 

This is a homeschool problem in that unregulation makes this sort of abuse easier to hide.

 

But the petrie dish of crazy that this abuse grows in IS a religious problem. Not all abusers are religious, but when you are surrounded by people telling you your abuse is actually godly parenting....

 

I don't for one second think everyone who is a conservative Christian is an abuser. I also don't think people who have not experienced even a sliver of this sort of abuse immediately understand how religion can fuel the warped thinking and damaging dynamic that keeps the cycle going.

[eternalsummer]

Well, I'm now thoroughly depressed and wish I hadn't ever read this thread in the first place.

[texasmama]

I think you may be referring to my post.

 

I am coming at this as a Christian who is much less conservative now than how I was raised. (Did I mention I am MUCH less conservative now?)

 

This is a homeschool problem in that unregulation makes this sort of abuse easier to hide.

 

But the petrie dish of crazy that this abuse grows in IS a religious problem. Not all abusers are religious, but when you are surrounded by people telling you your abuse is actually godly parenting....

 

I don't for one second think everyone who is a conservative Christian is an abuser. I also don't think people who have not experienced even a sliver of this sort of abuse immediately understand how religion can fuel the warped thinking and damaging dynamic that keeps the cycle going.

I have been on the inside of the Ezzo parenting style so I understand it well.  I've been taken in by a church which presented, endorsed and taught a program that is "guaranteed to make your child sleep through the night at 8 weeks" and "make your baby a welcome member in your family" rather than the center of the universe and disruptive to your life, your marriage, your home and your relationship with God.  Additionally, if you don't do the program, your marriage will suffer, and your child will not be godly.  And then add on the pressure of the people who are your peers in Sunday School class tell you that everyone can tell who is a scheduled feeder and sleeper versus not by how well they do in the nursery.  <gasp>  And there you sit very pregnant with your first baby and this seems like a reasonable thing to try.  Only it's not.  And it didn't work.  And your baby did not sleep through the night, and you felt like a failure and the precious early time with your baby was spent trying to "do it right" and "follow the rules" because God is a God of order.

 

God is a God of grace.  I am so grateful that He does not deal with me the way it is advocated for us to deal with our infants. 

 

I will always remember feeling horrified even at the time by a video in which a lady said (smiling) that she and her husband prayed about whether it was time for their baby to sleep through the night, and they let him cry it out.  At the age of three weeks.  Even then, it sounded harsh.  Now, it sounds horrifying.

 

I am still angry about the lies that I was told and believed.  I have apologized to my first child who received the "Ezzo treatment".  I learned and changed.  I did not repeat that with her siblings.  When you know better, you do better.  These people (and those like them) are under the very gravest of disordered thinking.  They are doing what they believe is best in the name of God, and it is abusive and damaging.  I am so grateful to now be one of the "ungodly Attachment Parenting followers" that I was warned against.  My children are grateful, too.  I promise you that.

[Mommy22alyns]

Well, I'm now thoroughly depressed and wish I hadn't ever read this thread in the first place.

 

I'm practically in tears over her suggestion to just pinch her baby's adorable chubby leg.   :crying: They need gentle squishes and kisses, not pain.

[FO4UR]

Swatting a 15mo with a back-scratcher and pinching them when they squirm on the changing table???

 

 

 

She better hope she never is in a place to depend upon her children to care for her in her old age. Maybe they will swat her when she forgets their names and pinch her when she wets her pants.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[*Lulu*]

I am still angry about the lies that I was told and believed. I have apologized to my first child who received the "Ezzo treatment". I learned and changed. I did not repeat that with her siblings. When you know better, you do better. These people (and those like them) are under the very gravest of disordered thinking. They are doing what they believe is best in the name of God, and it is abusive and damaging. I am so grateful to now be one of the "ungodly Attachment Parenting followers" that I was warned against. My children are grateful, too. I promise you that.

I get it.

 

I never heard of the Pearls or Ezzo while a part of conservative Christianity. The methods though, some of those got passed around by older moms as wisdom. I don't remember paying much attention to it. I was too busy thinking about the other things I needed to improve on to be a godly young woman. (Like getting rid of my two piece swim suit, steering clear of dungeons and dragons and submitting to my alcoholic father.) But then I had children.

 

The first time my brain connected the idea of spanking with my infant, my bullshit bell went off like I was at a political debate. After I set aside infant obedience as a godly practice, I started looking at the other stuff that I had always just "known". Things like DH being the final word on everything, troll dolls being evil, my name not being on accounts and major purchases were put in the rubbish pile. (Thank God that DH, while raised even more conservatively than me, had considered all of that BS all along and never let it be the ruling philosophy of our relationship.) Then no swearing, no using birth control, no women in positions of authority, and the use of pithy scripture one-liners joined the other cast offs. Over the years homosexuality as a sin, scripture alone, hell, the sinner's prayer, daily devotional time, and the concept of evangelism as embraced by the American church have found themselves discarded.

 

The kicker, my church would have considered itself mainstream. Women could cut their hair and wear pants so we weren't conservative. *sigh* Those ideas don't have to come in the package of the Pearls, Gothard, Ezzo, and so on to leave a path of destruction and pain.

[Orthodox6]

I miss my troll dolls and my ratfinks. 😄

[Guest submarines]

Swatting a 15mo with a back-scratcher and pinching them when they squirm on the changing table???

 

 

 

She better hope she never is in a place to depend upon her children to care for her in her old age. Maybe they will swat her when she forgets their names and pinch her when she wets her pants.

Honest question: So how do those children grow up to be? Do all denounce their parents, or there are some who internalized some kind of respect, and maybe even love, the way those parents so misguidedly try to instill?

 

There are, after all, generations of religious people who follow that very parenting approach, and children end parenting their own children in the same way? I've heard it too many times--my parents spanked me, and I grew up a decent, God loving person, and therefore I'll spank my own children. Out of love.

[lauranc]

http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/04/intentionally-parenting-your-toddler-part-2/

 

This is really horrible.  Truly.

 

[JustEm]

 

I will always remember feeling horrified even at the time by a video in which a lady said (smiling) that she and her husband prayed about whether it was time for their baby to sleep through the night, and they let him cry it out. At the age of three weeks. Even then, it sounded harsh. Now, it sounds horrifying.

Here I am cuddling my 2 week old wanting to cry for the precious babies who get treated so terribly like that.

[Ipsey]

Honest question: So how do those children grow up to be? Do all denounce their parents, or there are some who internalized some kind of respect, and maybe even love, the way those parents so misguidedly try to instill?

 

There are, after all, generations of religious people who follow that very parenting approach, and children end parenting their own children in the same way? I've heard it too many times--my parents spanked me, and I grew up a decent, God loving person, and therefore I'll spank my own children. Out of love.

 

I don't know that they all turn out one way or another, but I have one example of close friends.

 

Our family was pretty close to some members of Charity Christian Fellowship for a long time (a "plain" Anabaptist group), and a lot of the childrearing teachings were similar to what we're reading about here. All homeschooling--no college for the girls, etc.

 

One of my best friends (just a few years younger than I) was 20 and living at home and the 2nd of 11 children (at the time).

 

The family had major struggles. The parents were very controlling to their children but were really lovely to be around in most outward ways.

 

The oldest daughter was married off to a church leader's son, and they've lived in Africa serving missions for about 13 years now.

 

The rest of the children all eventually moved away. It took my friend making the break and going to college and then moving 1,500 miles away.  Almost all of the children now live in the same state as my friend. None of them, except the oldest daughter, are Christians. 

 

I think the children do have some love for their parents, but they can't be around them. My friend just about has panic attacks any time she has any interaction with her parents. The last time I talked to her, she didn't know if her parents were still married or not. They'd been having trouble for a long time, but she couldn't even bring herself to get involved with even knowing about her parents' relationship. 

 

I'm sure that some families work out, but my friends didn't.

[Joanne]

Honest question: So how do those children grow up to be? Do all denounce their parents, or there are some who internalized some kind of respect, and maybe even love, the way those parents so misguidedly try to instill?

 

There are, after all, generations of religious people who follow that very parenting approach, and children end parenting their own children in the same way? I've heard it too many times--my parents spanked me, and I grew up a decent, God loving person, and therefore I'll spank my own children. Out of love.

 

 

I don't believe that. I don't believe paragraph 2, where scripted training (set up, hitting, re-set up, hitting) was practiced. I think the scripted, ritualized hitting as punishment has developed in recent *decades* as a twisted theology used to increasingly grab power and control where there has been a perceived slip in control and power.

"My parents spanked me" covers a WIDE range, and can't be used to support anything in terms of outcomes.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Can we start a petition that requests authorities to conduct and investigation based on the blogs? It seems like that should be possible. Perhaps it would open a can of worms with negative implications for other (innocent) mommy bloggers, but I can't stomach the thought that these people can openly abuse their children and spread their practices as if they are linked to and inspired by the Holy Gospels and Scriptures. So disgusting.

[albeto.]

Can we start a petition that requests authorities to conduct and investigation based on the blogs? It seems like that should be possible. Perhaps it would open a can of worms with negative implications for other (innocent) mommy bloggers, but I can't stomach the thought that these people can openly abuse their children and spread their practices as if they are linked to and inspired by the Holy Gospels and Scriptures. So disgusting.

 

I'd settle for an end to religious privilege in law. Blogs shouldn't be "monitored," the legal standard should be identical for religious and non religious alike. Currently, this isn't the case. Sean Faircloth's book has specifics for more information.

[LibraryLover]

Why do the other female children in this family have attribute names but A does not? Did she change it?

[Jyhwkmama]

Why do the other female children in this family have attribute names but A does not? Did she change it?

 

 

I think her middle name is Faith.

[Murphy101]

I don't believe that. I don't believe paragraph 2, where scripted training (set up, hitting, re-set up, hitting) was practiced. I think the scripted, ritualized hitting as punishment has developed in recent *decades* as a twisted theology used to increasingly grab power and control where there has been a perceived slip in control and power.

"My parents spanked me" covers a WIDE range, and can't be used to support anything in terms of outcomes.

Holy snowballs. We agree.

 

Spanking that is usually spoken of in generational or cultural context and this brand of crazy is not the same thing at all.

 

Most people who spank are just as horrified by this Pearl type stuff as any of us are.

[happypamama]

"So I got my teeny, tiny baby spanker. It's a little back scratcher that barely stings, but it's great for babies."

 

I can't even.

That made me want to cry.  And to go cuddle my 17mo.

[LibraryLover]

I think her middle name is Faith.

[Seasider]

I think her middle name is Faith.

In Lisa's blog there are posts about modesty. In one of them, a daughter named Faith is the model. She looks very much like the photos I've seen of Alecea.

[FO4UR]

Honest question: So how do those children grow up to be? Do all denounce their parents, or there are some who internalized some kind of respect, and maybe even love, the way those parents so misguidedly try to instill?

 

There are, after all, generations of religious people who follow that very parenting approach, and children end parenting their own children in the same way? I've heard it too many times--my parents spanked me, and I grew up a decent, God loving person, and therefore I'll spank my own children. Out of love.

 

 

My opinion fwiw...

 

Either they reject their parents, and go on to live healthy(er) lives.  They have no real relationship with their parents once they fly the coop.

 

or

 

They buy it all hook, line, and sinker and hold on for their chance to be the Alpha in the domination situation.  (I'm positive that the boys are taught to keep the same sort of control over their future wives. They can endure a few years of their mother's garbage for the return of living the rest of their lives as King of their own Castle someday.)

 

 

 

 

 

They either have the initiative to seek out their own faith and realize that Jesus never abused people...certainly never hit babies, for the LOVE of ALL things.....

 

or

 

They continue in the tradition of using the Bible in twisted and demented ways to plant themselves firmly in the center of their narcissistic, idolatrous Universe. They build cults. They make a lot of money off of desperate people. They abuse in ways we cannot imagine and think that it is all normal...if not a superior and Godly way of living.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They VERY scary thing, for me, is that the Penningtons look so good from the outside, especially if you have grown up being spanked a few times. People latch onto a Godlier-looking, a More-Spiritual-Looking, way of life and don't see the very real outright abuse b/c they minimize the abuse, relating it to their own (mild!) childhood experiences.  

[zoobie]

Why do the other female children in this family have attribute names but A does not? Did she change it?

Her Facebook page says her name is Alecia Faith.

[Joker]

Honest question: So how do those children grow up to be? Do all denounce their parents, or there are some who internalized some kind of respect, and maybe even love, the way those parents so misguidedly try to instill?

 

There are, after all, generations of religious people who follow that very parenting approach, and children end parenting their own children in the same way? I've heard it too many times--my parents spanked me, and I grew up a decent, God loving person, and therefore I'll spank my own children. Out of love.

 

My parents spanked me but it was nothing like this family. I was spanked but have a ton of love and respect for my parents. I was spanked but do not spank my own children. My dad has passed but my mom has a "when you know better, you do better" approach to it so has zero problem with me feeling spanking isn't okay for my own children. All of my siblings have great relationships with our mom (and did with our dad when he was alive), are decent, and love God. IMO, spanking when I was growing up and what this family did are worlds apart. We were not spanked when babies and we were not spanked as teens. We were never controlled like these children and when older I did the right thing because it was right and out of respect, not fear, for my parents. I am now raising decent and God loving children but I do not spank. My dds' childhood is still very similar to my own (just minus the few spankings).

[Jasperstone]

I have been on the inside of the Ezzo parenting style so I understand it well. I've been taken in by a church which presented, endorsed and taught a program that is "guaranteed to make your child sleep through the night at 8 weeks" and "make your baby a welcome member in your family" rather than the center of the universe and disruptive to your life, your marriage, your home and your relationship with God. Additionally, if you don't do the program, your marriage will suffer, and your child will not be godly. And then add on the pressure of the people who are your peers in Sunday School class tell you that everyone can tell who is a scheduled feeder and sleeper versus not by how well they do in the nursery. <gasp> And there you sit very pregnant with your first baby and this seems like a reasonable thing to try. Only it's not. And it didn't work. And your baby did not sleep through the night, and you felt like a failure and the precious early time with your baby was spent trying to "do it right" and "follow the rules" because God is a God of order.

 

God is a God of grace. I am so grateful that He does not deal with me the way it is advocated for us to deal with our infants.

 

I will always remember feeling horrified even at the time by a video in which a lady said (smiling) that she and her husband prayed about whether it was time for their baby to sleep through the night, and they let him cry it out. At the age of three weeks. Even then, it sounded harsh. Now, it sounds horrifying.

 

I am still angry about the lies that I was told and believed. I have apologized to my first child who received the "Ezzo treatment". I learned and changed. I did not repeat that with her siblings. When you know better, you do better. These people (and those like them) are under the very gravest of disordered thinking. They are doing what they believe is best in the name of God, and it is abusive and damaging. I am so grateful to now be one of the "ungodly Attachment Parenting followers" that I was warned against. My children are grateful, too. I promise you that.

Well said!

 

There are no formulas, as all children are unique. What works with one doesn't automatically work with another anyway.

 

I still can't get my head around how anyone can think smacking a baby is ever ok!

[SKL]

I don't agree with this lady, but occasional tot spanking was very normal "discipline" not that long ago.  It reads to me like she's trying to "codify" old-fashioned discipline, trying to make it "make sense" on paper, trying to use religion to rationalize base instincts, as well as exhibiting a lack of understanding of kids.

 

My mom was not abusive, but she would spank for some things that are considered "normal" baby/tot behavior.  The difference is that she would give a swat once or possibly a few times (depending on the kid) and that would be the end of it.  The kid would stop doing whatever it was and have no recollection of the event.  There was no long sanctimonious discussion of how you need to develop patience and consistency and do it with Godly love and bla bla bla.  I suspect that kind of writing (by Lisa and others) was reactionary to the movement against traditional corporal punishment.  The problem is that this cultish approach probably resulted in a lot more spankings.  Instead of "damn, nothing else was working and I couldn't deal with it so I spanked and that worked," we have this "you have to spank early and often or your kid is going to Hell and it will be your failing.  Even if it doesn't seem to be working, you have to keep on spanking every single time.  Maybe the problem is that you aren't spanking hard enough."

 

A couple of years ago I sat through a Sunday School class based on a book that taught that you have to spank your kids every single time they disobey.  Starting from about 1yo if not sooner.  If you don't, you obviously hate your child because you don't care if they go to Hell.  You're supposed to tell your kid, "I have no choice but to spank you."  BS.  My mom spanked because it was expedient.  And she realized it would only work if it was NOT done all the time, or in extreme ways.  I've spanked my kids, and I can't imagine telling them that I'm doing it to save their souls.  I can't imagine feeling the glow of righteousness on account of spanking.  But on the other hand, I don't feel the need to justify those occasional spanks I have given.

 

Just a thought:  if parents need to spank to save kids' souls, then why don't the parents need spanked to save their souls?  I'm guessing they don't claim to be already perfect....

[albeto.]

Just a thought:  if parents need to spank to save kids' souls, then why don't the parents need spanked to save their souls?  I'm guessing they don't claim to be already perfect....

 

You might be surprised to know just what can be rationalized when one has Real Faith: Christian Domestic Discipline.

[gardenmom5]

Jasperstone, on 14 Feb 2015 - 9:34 PM, said:

Well said!

 

There are no formulas, as all children are unique. What works with one doesn't automatically work with another anyway.

 

I still can't get my head around how anyone can think smacking a baby is ever ok!

but it would be so nice if it did . . . .

 

 

I will always remember when 2 & 3 were very small, I would take them out of the chapel when they were disruptive.  I took them to an empty classroom, so they could be bored, then we'd go back.  I was always in the room with them . . .well, their reactions were completely opposite. 

 

#2 - didn't like it one bit, and it wasn't long before ready to go back.  

#3 . . . . well, gee, tables to climb, switches to play with,  oooh, chalk dust (blech). oh, the window opens this way . . .   I actually left that kid in the room by himself for a couple minutes to see if missing me would have any impact - but it was more fun 'cause mom wasn't dampening the exploration . .  . (we ended up in the car, with him in his carseat)

 

the real irony . . . . over the years I have jokingly referred to these two as my "twins" (even though they're more than three years apart.)

[ktgrok]

You might be surprised to know just what can be rationalized when one has Real Faith: Christian Domestic Discipline.

 

I was actually thinking these are just the people to be into that. (although, most of me thinks the whole idea is a made up one for people into BDSM to fantasize about.)

[Barb_]

Was her old blog "Living My Best Life"? http://livingmybestlife-lisa.blogspot.com

 

That's the blogger who spanked for not saying "Hi Mommy." She made her blog private when people started calling her out on it. The blog's "voice" sounds a lot like Lisa Pennington's, and I'm seeing that post linked multiple times and attributed to her, but I don't know for certain if it is or not.

 

If you have the stomach for it, here's a link where someone copied over the entire post. Just in case you're worried that the bit about spanking was taken out of context.

 

http://faithsista.blogspot.com/2009/06/what-do-you-guys-think-of-this.html

Pretty sure that was public just 2-3 days ago

[regentrude]

You might be surprised to know just what can be rationalized when one has Real Faith: Christian Domestic Discipline.

 

I am speechless.

[*Lulu*]

I am speechless.

I know.

 

People who would NEVER have told me that site contained good advice managed to give a lot of very similar sounding pearls of wisdom when we were in the conservative circle of Christianity.

 

Crazy.town.

[TranquilMind]

With a scripture backed, Christianese based, gold plated bullshit reason why this family was not a real member of the pack and a gold medal in mental gymnastics worthy explanation of how right the TRUE teachings of their group are.

There are abusers everywhere, not just in those who claim Christian-affiliation.  No one is defending that at all.    That needs to be said when it starts going off the rails, as if scripture or Christianity is the reason this family had problems or didn't provide documentation. 

 

There are also atheist sickos like Dawkins.  He has professed that the 50+ year systemic abuse/rapes perpetrated by priests were "less damaging than being brought up Catholic." 

 

http://www.bethinking.org/atheism/atheism-and-child-abuse

 

Judge each case on its merits, when you have facts, not just broadbrush "those people". 

[TranquilMind]

You might be surprised to know just what can be rationalized when one has Real Faith: Christian Domestic Discipline.

How, um, timely, given that the porno "shades" flick just released this weekend has brought in like 30 million on the first weekend. 

 

Ugh.  To all of it. 

[meena]

This type of "discipline" and parent-child relationship dynamics sound very much like Ezzo's Growing Kids God's Way. There's a local Christian homeschool/community school hybrid that my DH and I were looking into when our kids were approaching school age. This school required all parents take the GKGW class and then expected parents and children to follow those methods to the letter. I was able to preview the class workbook and couldn't believe what I was reading. It was twisting the Bible to condone such harsh parenting methods. Needless to say, we stayed far away from that school as well as any churches that promoted the use of materials from the Ezzos, Pearls, Maxwells, etc.

 

It's like these people, Pennington's included, want to make their children into robots who do their bidding. For what? So they have children who might be perfectly behaved on the outside, but on the inside have broken hearts desperately seeking true love and acceptance? So, so sad.

[Tanaqui]

You might be surprised to know just what can be rationalized when one has Real Faith: Christian Domestic Discipline.

 

Oooh, is that a link to Christians of Gor*?  Why yes, yes it is!

 

It's all fun and games when it's fun and games, but there is such a thing as taking things just a wee bit too far. When you're conflating "punishment" with actual punishments is probably that point. BDSM is no excuse for partner abuse.

 

* Link is to TVTropes and worksafe. Gor probably isn't worksafe. If you want a view of the style, and want to be able to read it at work or around your kids (same diff), try the spoof Houseplants of Gor. The writing is eye-bleedingly traumatizing, but it IS SFW.

 

[TranquilMind]

This type of "discipline" and parent-child relationship dynamics sound very much like Ezzo's Growing Kids God's Way. There's a local Christian homeschool/community school hybrid that my DH and I were looking into when our kids were approaching school age. This school required all parents take the GKGW class and then expected parents and children to follow those methods to the letter. I was able to preview the class workbook and couldn't believe what I was reading. It was twisting the Bible to condone such harsh parenting methods. Needless to say, we stayed far away from that school as well as any churches that promoted the use of materials from the Ezzos, Pearls, Maxwells, etc.

 

It's like these people, Pennington's included, want to make their children into robots who do their bidding. For what? So they have children who might be perfectly behaved on the outside, but on the inside have broken hearts desperately seeking true love and acceptance? So, so sad.

The Ezzos did have one good piece of advice I haven't forgotten even 20 years later. 

 

"Eat - Play -Sleep", and don't mix up the order, in order to establish great sleeping habits. 

 

I couldn't tell you another thing that book said at this point, but I do remember this, and it worked beautifully.  I had great sleepers from a very early age. 

 

Reminds me of the old adage about eating the meat and spitting out the bones. 

[Reefgazer]

Fifty Shades of Grey has nothing on these people, LOL!

 

You might be surprised to know just what can be rationalized when one has Real Faith: Christian Domestic Discipline.

[*Lulu*]

Judge each case on its merits, when you have facts, not just broadbrush "those people".

 

#1- I did not say all abusers are Christians. A a matter of fact, in a subsequent post, I wrote, "I don't for one second think everyone who is a conservative Christian is an abuser. I also don't think people who have not experienced even a sliver of this sort of abuse immediately understand how religion can fuel the warped thinking and damaging dynamic that keeps the cycle going."

 

#2- the merits of this particular case have been well documented by the mother's own words on her blog.

 

#3- I refuse to judge each case on its merits when there is a pervasive culture that cloaks itself in religiosity and acts as a catalyst for abuse. Would this family have had an abusive element without the church teachings they took to heart? Probably. An ass, is an ass, is an ass. Would they have had an echo chamber of people telling them they were acting in an acceptable, even laudable, manner if they had not been involved in this flavor of Christianity? Most likely not.

 

#4- these are not "those people" they are OUR people. As homeschoolers. As Christians. And I have had enough first hand experience to know exactly who and what they teach and I assure you the brush I am using is exactly the right width.

[*Lulu*]

 

Reminds me of the old adage about eating the meat and spitting out the bones.

Which is all well and good unless the meat is poisoned.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I read the secular version of the Ezzo's book.  I haven't read the "Christian" one but I've been told that the secular one is toned down a lot?  Anyway, when I paired that with the La Leche League "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding", I found it helpful just in setting routines.  I had a friend who I think did the Christian one but whichever one it was, she ended up having to abandon breastfeeding because her baby was failing to thrive.  The thing is, she didn't use common sense (in my opinion) and was rigid instead of responding to her baby and her situation.  This baffled me, actually, because she was an R.N.  I think I've said this before but I do not like cookbooks for anything other than cooking (and even then I often abandon the cookbook and do my own thing).  Babies don't read the manuals.  My ds didn't even follow the secular ones.   ;)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The Ezzos did have one good piece of advice I haven't forgotten even 20 years later. 

 

"Eat - Play -Sleep", and don't mix up the order, in order to establish great sleeping habits. 

 

I couldn't tell you another thing that book said at this point, but I do remember this, and it worked beautifully.  I had great sleepers from a very early age. 

 

Reminds me of the old adage about eating the meat and spitting out the bones. 

 

Of course, this only works, when it works at all, for bottle fed babies, and some CIO is considered to be part of the process.

 

For successful breastfeeding, nursing has to be on demand and you have to be willing to nurse babies to sleep sometimes. The breastmilk acts as a soporific so it's not exactly natural, practical, or possible to get them up for active playtime after nursing when they're sleepy. The aforementioned CIO is also very detrimental to a successful long-term breastfeeding relationship.

 

But then, the Ezzos never did know anything at all about breastfeeding which is why so many of the families following "Growing Kids Gary's Way" found themselves with failure-to-thrive infants. Very sad and totally unnecessary.

 

My totally breastfed and never Ezzo'ed children were also great sleepers from early ages. They never pushed anybody off swings, either, as Ezzo predicted they would.