Consequences for disrespect

[KrissiK]

We have a very difficult child, so please, only answer if your child is very difficult and you have been able to find a way to have a good relationship going into the teen years.  DS is 11. He is argumentative in the extreme, he is high energy, he is impulsive, he is argumentative and he is disrespectful. And we are at our wit's end. Basically, we have degenerated into just yelling at him, and yes, we realize this is not effective.  We know, we want to stop,  but he's the type of child who would probably provoke Mother Theresa. My mother, who never even spanked me once when I was a child, told me the other day, "I just wanted to smack him!"  On his good days he's just obnoxious. We can tolerate that. Right now he's in his room for throwing a Lego "in the general direction" of his dad (it was at his dad, but since it didn't hit him, to him it didn't count as being at his dad) because he was mad because we wouldn't let him do something. We want a consequences based discipline system, and we've read Kevin Lehman and others like him, and agree with him, but for some reason can't get it to work.  This child pushes buttons, he bullies his little sister, he is responsible for about 90% of the conflict in our family. The week he was at camp was the most peaceful we've had since the last time he was at camp. We want consequences. We need a way to get him to be respectful. We try to be respectful of him. We try to listen to him, give him a chance to be heard, not order him around, etc. We've tried to give him tools to control his anger - run around the block, go on a fast bike ride, say, "I'm just really angry right now" and go outside, even take a shower (he's said that helps calm him down). But things just escalate fast and then we're yelling. And he keeps getting older and bigger and I'm starting to get scared.

[Catwoman]

I don't have any advice for you, Krissi, but I wanted to send you a :grouphug:.

 

I hope someone who has experience with this will be able to give you some good ideas. I can understand why you and your dh are feeling so frustrated and worried.

[luckymom]

I do not have advice but I do have empathy. 

 

There may be a root cause that he isn't even aware of that drives him to behave the way he does.  If so, a consequence based approach may not help, but rather aggravate because the root is not being addressed. This may not be your case but I have seen it before and wanted to suggest that you may want to consider this.  

[bettyandbob]

(Hugs)

 

My ds got worse through the teen years. Exercise helped. I think if we could have gotten serious hard exercise daily, like 90 minutes sweating, it would gave helped some. But he's a very stubborn person and never latched into fitness or sports as something he liked. So he did get exercise a little, bug not enough.

 

My friend got CDs from celebrate calm. They are expensive. She says they helped her tremendously. She listened on her own, but she also listened with her boys and sometimes they would discuss. She thought that helped too.

 

My ds is still extremely difficult. He is 19. He is starting to be more pleasant. He is getting along with siblings. I know you hate reading this because that a long time for you. It gets very hard because family stuff often revolved around whether ds would be difficult. So, we had to choose not to do some things because we were trying to avoid that.

 

I don't have a answers. Camp was good. Everyone needs a break. When I could I sent dd to camp at a different time so she had more break. The best summer ever was when ds was away 5 weeks. He went away to college. Far away. He decided the school was not a good fit. He did ok grade wise. He's been home a year attending cc. He's still difficult, but he's better since he was away a long time. I think he actually missed home and he had to learn to get along with others.

[Desert Strawberry]

I agree that consequences don't seem to be a solution here. I think pinning down the why of his behavior is essential before you can address the what. 

Do you have any idea why he behaves this way? Can you generally understand what he is feeling and why he responds the way he does?  If not, you really have to start there.

Consequences won't make him stop a behavior he is not in control of. If you are requiring something that is impossible, or that he can't understand, no matter how much he wants to, he won't be able to comply.

[shanvan]

Have you read Heart of Anger by Lou Priolo?  I like some of his techniques and he does aim to help parents discover the root of the problem.  I should get my copy out again for dealing w/ Dd.  I know that for my Ds, any type of writing assignment where he had to reflect on the situation really forced him to see how he was acting.  

[VaKim]

I had one like that. But I didn't yell. I spanked. Immediately and without warning for the kind of behavior you have described. And I prayed. Lots. She is a wonderful 16 year old young lady now, who still has the same stubborn personality, but she has matured a lot in the last several years, so perhaps your son will as well. She is now a pleasure to have around. We still have some days when she has trouble keeping things together (mostly hormone related), but nothing like she used to. 

[Joanne]

I think that I searching for "consequences for disrespect" you are approaching it the wrong way.

 

I am on my phone; will be back later.

[fairfarmhand]

Read The Explosive Child.

 

But that's not a cure all.

 

Some kids are just so stinkin difficult. I have one. She was terrible at 10-13. She's still no picnic.

 

For me, I had to work on me. I would get up each day and pray about her, for her. I prayed that God would make me the kind of mother that I needed to be. That he would show me what to do and say and that *my* attitude would be kind and loving. I would walk my way mentally through scenarios and rehearse how I would handle them. Then I would try to get through each day.

 

For my daughter, I had to be extremely proactive in meeting her needs. This was more than food, shelter and clothing. This was love and loving interactions from parents (really hard to do when you're in a bad place with your kid and you can't stand them) Fairness (even if she was driving me bonkers, I still had to be fair) Opportunities for interaction with others (my extrovert gets worse when she's stuck at home more than 3 days in a row) Firmness balanced with kindness, A Good diet, a consistent get up go to bed schedule.

 

About the yelling, my kid doesn't ever back down. So when the first hint of escalation begins, I try to remove myself and anyone else from her presence. The key is to be proactive.

 

[Ottakee]

Read The Explosive Child.

 

But that's not a cure all.

 

Some kids are just so stinkin difficult. I have one. She was terrible at 10-13. She's still no picnic.

 

For me, I had to work on me. I would get up each day and pray about her, for her. I prayed that God would make me the kind of mother that I needed to be. That he would show me what to do and say and that *my* attitude would be kind and loving. I would walk my way mentally through scenarios and rehearse how I would handle them. Then I would try to get through each day.

 

For my daughter, I had to be extremely proactive in meeting her needs. This was more than food, shelter and clothing. This was love and loving interactions from parents (really hard to do when you're in a bad place with your kid and you can't stand them) Fairness (even if she was driving me bonkers, I still had to be fair) Opportunities for interaction with others (my extrovert gets worse when she's stuck at home more than 3 days in a row) Firmness balanced with kindness, A Good diet, a consistent get up go to bed schedule.

 

About the yelling, my kid doesn't ever back down. So when the first hint of escalation begins, I try to remove myself and anyone else from her presence. The key is to be proactive.

 

Very good ideas.

 

I would also see what is behind the behavior.  Is he ADHD where he is very impulsive with his thoughts and actions and needs a "pause" button before reacting?  Is he the type that is insecure and needs a lot more attention and 1:1 time to reassure him he is loved and cared for?  Does he need more physical outlets?  More/better sleep?  Anything else you can figure out that might be behind the behavior?

 

[fairfarmhand]

By the way, it helped me when I remembered that God had a reason for giving me *this* particular child.

 

I can't tell you how she's challenged me to be a better mother. How I've been humbled. How I've learned to pray. How I've learned to be less judgmental. I could go on. Perhaps I need to write a blog post about her.

 

Hugs....It is so hard.

 

[KrissiK]

Read The Explosive Child.

 

But that's not a cure all.

 

Some kids are just so stinkin difficult. I have one. She was terrible at 10-13. She's still no picnic.

 

For me, I had to work on me. I would get up each day and pray about her, for her. I prayed that God would make me the kind of mother that I needed to be. That he would show me what to do and say and that *my* attitude would be kind and loving. I would walk my way mentally through scenarios and rehearse how I would handle them. Then I would try to get through each day.

 

For my daughter, I had to be extremely proactive in meeting her needs. This was more than food, shelter and clothing. This was love and loving interactions from parents (really hard to do when you're in a bad place with your kid and you can't stand them) Fairness (even if she was driving me bonkers, I still had to be fair) Opportunities for interaction with others (my extrovert gets worse when she's stuck at home more than 3 days in a row) Firmness balanced with kindness, A Good diet, a consistent get up go to bed schedule.

 

About the yelling, my kid doesn't ever back down. So when the first hint of escalation begins, I try to remove myself and anyone else from her presence. The key is to be proactive.

Good ideas and things that could work with this child. He doesn't back down, either. One of Kevin Lehman's things is "say it once, turn around and walk away." DS lives for confrontation, and is almost devilish in his ability to suck you in to one. So, I've been trying very hard to not give in to his manipulations.

 

He does need interaction, so I have been sending him to every VBS available in our town this summer. Unfortunately, his best friend, who lives across the street, has been quite unavailable this summer. We think it's because his parents don't like DS because he is so obnoxious, so they keep their son very busy. But, there's not a VBS every week. Fortunately, I do believe God answered my prayers because I was just in tears on Friday, praying, and later that morning I was made aware of a basketball camp for three mornings this coming week. I wasted no time signing him up.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Make sure you only take advice on punishments or physical disciplines for tween/teen boys from parents who have raised sons through that period and beyond. There is so much advice out there about coming down like a brick house on your teen son and wearing him out so he's too physically exhausted to question you or exhibit behavior problems. It's not always correct. They aren't "just" piles of muscle and hormones...Be careful who you are listening to. Experienced parents, counselors, doctors in some cases -- listen to people who have walked the road you're walking or whose education closes a gap.

 

You don't mention counseling. Have you ever found an effective family therapist? Sometimes we need outside help to locate the source of the problem or to work on strategies that will most likely achieve your goal of moving into the teen years with a better relationship with your son.

[Katy]

Do you have anyone in your life that has horses or could teach him horseback riding?  Several people sent their sons to stay with us when I was a kid (my dad was a police chief after leaving the military), with basically a if you can straighten my son out I won't have to send him to military school thing.  We had horses so there was always work to be done, but mostly I think the thing that had the most effect was the riding.  You cannot control a horse if you cannot control yourself, and a lot of times as a kid you're projecting energy you don't even know that you're projecting.  I think maybe it's a hormonal thing. Anyway I'm sure my dad did a few fun things with them too, taught some martial arts, maybe shooting, maybe building something, but I think what made the most difference was riding.

 

I've heard really good things about Colorado Outward Bound too, if you can afford a trip like that. 

[KrissiK]

You don't mention counseling. Have you ever found an effective family therapist? Sometimes we need outside help to locate the source of the problem or to work on strategies that will most likely achieve your goal of moving into the teen years with a better relationship with your son.

We are very open to counseling, but are not sure how to go about finding one. We went down the typical routes, asked pastor, friends, etc. No one ever really enthusiastically gave us a name. I've looked on line, Yellow Pages, etc. I am so leery and weary of the medical establishment that I just don't trust it. I'm afraid we'll get someone who just wants to medicate him. I'm not against medication, but only after an extensive work-up. If it's warranted. Not some fly-by-night 5 minute, clip-board, check the boxes interview. KWIM? My brother was very difficult and my parents went to counseling with him (back in the 70's) and the counselor made my dad pin my brother down. I wasn't there, but they told me and that freaked me out.

[BlessedMom]

((((((((Hugs)))))))) I am sorry you are dealing with such challenging times.

 

You might take a look at these books,

 

http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Logic-Updated-Expanded-Edition/dp/1576839540/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0

 

http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Teens-With-Love-Logic/dp/1576839303/ref=pd_sim_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1Z0W2DYJBPQVC5PJMQNP

 

The authors also have a website at LoveandLogic.com where you will find articles & helpful information.

 

Their approach works well with some challenging young people. It might give you some valuable tools for defusing the situation.

[zoobie]

We went to a psychologist and psychiatrist for testing when we realized we were in over our heads. I would recommend that heartily to find out the why. There may not be a diagnosis, but if there is, knowing what you're dealing with is helpful. :grouphug:

[bettyandbob]

I had one like that. But I didn't yell. I spanked. Immediately and without warning for the kind of behavior you have described. And I prayed. Lots. She is a wonderful 16 year old young lady now, who still has the same stubborn personality, but she has matured a lot in the last several years, so perhaps your son will as well. She is now a pleasure to have around. We still have some days when she has trouble keeping things together (mostly hormone related), but nothing like she used to.

We actually tried physical discipline when ds was much younger. It did not help at all. Yelling did not help at all. The pp who mentioned focusing on your own response and removing yourself and others was spot on (at least from my experience).

 

Honestly, I cannot imagine any good from starting or continuing to physically discipline boy who is on the verge of becoming physically bigger and stronger than his parents.

[Garga]

I think I'd see if there's something else going on. My son has ADHD and acts just like yours when he's not taking his meds. I know many, many people hate the meds route, so I'm not pushing that. I'm just saying that it sounds like it could be something as "simple" as ADHD.

 

Look into different evaluations. If you know what you're really dealing with you can find the proper treatments for the issue whether it's counseling, parenting techniques, meds, whatever.

[gardenmom5]

every child is different. what works for one, may or may not work for another.  I understand how frustrating it is. I even had one who got physical on occasion.   the challenge is in the meantime . . . .

 

have you spoken with your ped to rule out anything physical with him?  I would also consider a naturopath who is familiar with adolescents with anger problems.  it's possible he is actually reacting to something he is eating.  dyes are a very common trigger for anger in boys.  dudeling would get angry if he ate nitrates.  (e.g. hot dogs, bacon, pot stickers . . .  ).  do a food diary to start to see if there is a connection.  the good thing is, most food reactions will go away quickly once you remove the catylist.

also - does he get enough sleep? does he have down time in his schedule, or does he need to have more things scheduled? (it's a fine balance.)

 

if water is calming (and one reason I wonder if his nervous system is overwhelmed. something he would be unable to understand let alone explain),- can you get him in a regular swimming program?  around here, lessons are available all year long,, 2x per week.  (you can conceivably do 4x if you sign up for two-programs.).  if he's already a developed swimmer - pre-swim team can get them swimming laps, but doesn't cost as much as swim team.

 

this will sound counter-intuitive, but martial arts.  as well as a physical outlet and discipline for him, there is the mental discipline.  they are required to learn how to control themselves. they are taught to think and how to defuse, acting in defense is a last resort. (aggression is a big no-no.)  a *good* sensei doesn't tolerate nonsense - even if it is happening at home and not at the dojo.

[lewelma]

I came here to recommend The Explosive Child, but I see it has already been recommended!  This book single handedly saved my relationship with my son.  It is excellent.

 

Ruth in NZ

[KrissiK]

 

this will sound counter-intuitive, but martial arts. as well as a physical outlet and discipline for him, there is the mental discipline. they are required to learn how to control themselves. they are taught to think and how to defuse, acting in defense is a last resort. (aggression is a big no-no.) a *good* sensei doesn't tolerate nonsense - even if it is happening at home and not at the dojo.

I have thought about it. I like it because it is on-going and not seasonal like sports are. And the strange thing about him .... He is not aggressive. At all. It's maddening on the sports field. He has got a beautiful physique, strength, stamina, coordination.... and no aggression. He could be the best player on his soccer team, (really, that's not just a mother's opinion), but he does not play aggressively at all. So, while that is frustrating on the sports field, I'm not afraid he will hit me. I'm afraid he may break the door down, but not hit me. He may do well in martial arts. It would probably teach him self control, too.

[celticmom]

My dd9 is still challenging but we saw great improvement after we removed the wheat/gluten that she is intolerant of from her diet. Food intolerances can have a dramatic impact on mood. I have personally experienced this with my own food intolerances. Also dd9's intolerance did not show up on a scratch test.

[Alessandra]

Make sure you only take advice on punishments or physical disciplines for tween/teen boys from parents who have raised sons through that period and beyond. There is so much advice out there about coming down like a brick house on your teen son and wearing him out so he's too physically exhausted to question you or exhibit behavior problems. It's not always correct. They aren't "just" piles of muscle and hormones...Be careful who you are listening to. Experienced parents, counselors, doctors in some cases -- listen to people who have walked the road you're walking or whose education closes a gap.

 

You don't mention counseling. Have you ever found an effective family therapist? Sometimes we need outside help to locate the source of the problem or to work on strategies that will most likely achieve your goal of moving into the teen years with a better relationship with your son.

Wise advice.

 

I would suggest counseling too. My personal preference is for a psychiatrist, because IF medication is warranted, even for a brief period, you will not be seeing multiple practitioners.

 

But it does cost a lot, especially if you decide to go out of your insurance plan. Some plans have very limited choices and those on the plan can be very booked up. Your ped may have good recommendations. If you have a relationship with your school district, that can also be a place for recommendations. Another source can be a special needs parent group, even if your kid is not diagnosed with anything.

 

I typed some advice about adequate sleep, plenty of food at that age, being outdoors, and (on your part) listening. Then I deleted all of it because every kid is so different. I think that seeing a professional who can help can make a real difference.

 

In my state (nj), there are a number of free counseling services for at risk children. Services are based on need if child, not on economic status of family and are not restricted to special needs kids. Maybe your state has something similar. (I have not actually used these, but have heard talks about them and been impressed.)

[Ohdanigirl]

..

[Incognito]

My most explosive child needs to be drawn closer when they are angry and exploding, not punished or pushed away.  Punishments just cause bitterness, resentment, retaliation, etc.  My other kids aren't like that, but in case yours is, consider drawing him nearer (feels very opposite of what you want to do when they are being horrible, I know).

 

I found this book very insightful in dealing with my most challenging tempered child.  http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Willed-Child-Dreamer-Dana-Spears/dp/0785277005/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407041725&sr=8-1&keywords=child+or+dreamer

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[saw]

A few years ago I was in daily yelling matches with dd15 (she was 11/12 at the time). She had to have her own way with everything, it seemed, and would get obnoxious if she didn't agree with something. What worked for us was for me to stop engaging. I think the suggestion came from the Lehman book, Have a New Teenager by Friday. I would just ignore her when she started becoming disrespectful/obnoxious. The only thing I would say is, "I'm sorry, but I won't deal with you when you're like that." VERY calmly (even when I was feeling anything but calm!). Then later, once she had calmed down, I would tell her, I'm sorry but you've lost the privilege of movie night/reading/going out because of your behaviour earlier. It was more of a losing privilege rather than a "punishment", and I would phrase it along the lines of, when you act like you just did, I don't feel like doing x for you. It worked very very well for us, although it took a little while (and much biting of my tongue) before it took effect.

I also tried to spend extra time with DD one on one to build the relationship between the two of us, which was always a bit tricky because her twin is super chilled out and easy to get along with at all times, and one of the brothers is also very close to me and relaxed in approach (the little brother on the other hand ...).

It's not perfect now but there are almost never ever yelling matches and any issues can be dealt with pretty easily.

[lineinthesand9]

So sorry that your family is going through this.  We can empathize, as our situation with DS12 is similar.  I have thrown myself into prayer and study.  Yes, Lou Priolo's The Heart of Anger is an excellent resource.  Also, I highly recommend http://www.amazon.com/The-Christian-Parenting-Handbook-Heart-Based/dp/1400205190.  

 

Let me causiously and gently tell you that Dh and I have learned this -- As Christians, we have often strayed from God's instructions in raising our kiddos, and they have learned from our EXAMPLE.  They have learned to do as we do.  For example, we have yelled and been frustrated with misbehavior and gotten angry, so why are we surprised that they have learned to deal with frustrations in "their little world" in the same manner??  God's instructions are"And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." and "Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged."  We have begun to learn that our parenting "default" methods were provoking our children and introducing a spirit of anger (or,for lack of a better descriptor, an "atmosphere" of anger) into our home.  We have learned that *we* must prayfully make changes in our parenting methods -- to sort of back up, start over, and do it God's way instead of our way.  Sooo, yelling is out.  We've had to just cold-turkey quit.  Eradicating all yelling, sarcasm (of which my dh is KING, bless his heart  :001_smile: ), and other un-Christlike methods of dealing with our children has been priority.  Self-control.  When we model it, they have an easier time learning it.

 

And some other good advice from another Christian family who had dealt with the same stuff -- Have your behavior/consequences "list" ready.  In other words, write down the behaviors that are unacceptable and the consequences for those behaviors. Then, just be the policeman.  When a person is pulled over for violation, the policeman is not all an emotional wreck.  He doesn't yell and carry-on and wail, "Why do you do this me???"  He doesn't do this: :banghead: .  He doesn't spend HOURS of the day lecturing the driver.  He just WRITES THE TICKET.  Calmly.  And then he & the bummed-out driver go on with life.  

 

This past Mon. we had MAJOR attitude issues with DD14 and DS12.  Soooo, they lost stay-up-later-than-the-little-ones privileges for one week.  The attitude issues continued on Tues.  Soooo, they lost all electronics for one week.  The attitude and getting-along problem reared its ugly head on Thurs. when they were riding horses.  Soooo, they lost all horse-riding privileges for one week.  (Me (sweetly): "And we can make it two weeks if need be.")  By yesterday, life was much more pleasant around here.  (What really worked, was on Fri. we went to visit Grandparents who live an hour-and-a-half away...all the younger brothers and sisters got to watch movies on the laptops while we drove, but DD14 and DS12 just got to sit and engage in pleasant conversation with ME!!  :001_smile:   And I didn't budge on the no-electronics-for-a-week consequence, even when they begged and were AMAZINGLY reformed in their behavior!!)

 

Hope these little blurbs of our life are a bit of a help.  God's grace is miraculous, His strength makes it possible, His Word is our light, and prayer is our lifeline! Also, I know that you will receive much good advice and support here on this forum.  I have!

 

--Julie

 

ETA:  Just wanted to add that I have learned that "methods" and "techniques" may or may not fail, but God -- working in/through DH and me, and in the hearts of our children -- is the solid foundation on which we can build.  HUGS in your journey through this.

[kiwik]

Hugs. Whatever you do will be hard. On the positive side it will probably be easier now than when he is 16. All the best.

[umsami]

Following, because I see this in our future. 

[Haiku]

One of the best things I did for my extremely difficult (adopted at 11) daughter was put her in school. It gave everyone a break from each other and gave me one less thing to be responsible for (education).

 

I say this gently, but your son deserves not to be yelled at all the time. You could enroll him in school while you find and begin counseling and then take him out again if you want.

 

It was very hard for e to accept that homeschooling was not best for my daughter, but putting her in school helped reduce the stress in our family.

[strawberries]

Following. DS turns 10 next month and has been throwing a lot of that tween/teen disrespect my way. :/

 

One piece of advice from my childhood though - if you do read a book called "The Explosive Child" or anything like that, you may not want to leave it where he can see it.  I remember when I was young my mom was reading something, it may have been "The Strong Willed Child." I saw it and thought "Oh yeah? You think I'm so bad you need a book to deal with me?" It made me angrier, in a "strong willed? I'll show you strong willed" kind of way. Gee, I don't know why she was reading that book.  :laugh:  

[Farrar]

One of the best things I did for my extremely difficult (adopted at 11) daughter was put her in school. It gave everyone a break from each other and gave me one less thing to be responsible for (education).

 

I say this gently, but your son deserves not to be yelled at all the time. You could enroll him in school while you find and begin counseling and then take him out again if you want.

 

It was very hard for e to accept that homeschooling was not best for my daughter, but putting her in school helped reduce the stress in our family.

 

The fact that the OP said that the house was so much better when he was at camp seems to suggest that might be a good thing to strongly consider.

 

I would ask your pediatrician for a recommendation for that counselor.  Before you actually go in and pay money, it's fine to say, we are only for medication as a means of last resort, we don't want homeschooling to be the focus of the counseling, etc. and make sure they're on the same page as you.  But at some point, you have to go out on a limb.  Even if you have to try a couple of people, it really sounds like it may be worth it for your family.

[TammyS]

:grouphug:   I have so been there and I feel your pain keenly, even though we are pretty much on the other side of it. 

 

My 15 (almost 16) year old was such a misery at that age.  And it lasted for about 3 years.  I remember days of just crying alone in my room because it was exactly what I had not wanted our life to be like.  And while I wasn't afraid he would hit me (or anyone else) I was afraid of what the intensity of his emotions might lead to (and yes, he was big, he's currently 6'8").

 

So, I don't know that any of these are solutions, but here are some thoughts from the other side, in no particular order:

 

1.  Try to separate his intelligence from his maturity.  I remember thinking, constantly, that I couldn't understand why he was behaving that way, because it wasn't like he was stupid.  Except, he sort of was.  The immaturity and hormones of the age acted like a depressant on his brain.  When you feel like, "he can't be this stupid", you need to believe that he can.

 

2. The Kevin Lehman stuff about "don't warn" is absolutely right.  Warnings are just argument starters.  The kid knows how to behave.  Warnings are really just YOU starting an argument.  Keep your mouth shut until he actually commits the violation. 

 

3. Kevin Lehman is also right about "don't be there" when anything may be an opening for an argument.  If you have to tell him about a consequence, or you ask him to do something, or anything else that he isn't going to like, tell him, then walk away.  Don't be there 10 seconds later.  Do not offer yourself for an argument.  Go to the bathroom, go to your room, shoot, get in the car and go to the store.  But don't be available for an argument.

 

4. Do not attempt to control his happiness.  One of the ways that parents get into trouble is by expecting their kids to be happy and positive all the time.  We not only want obedience, but we want approval.  That is inappropriately controlling. If you tell the kid to clean his room, and he goes off with a very minor amount of huffing, but does it, then call that a victory.  Standing there and griping at him about being disrespectful when he's just doing what he's told in an somewhat unhappy manner is begging him to argue with you.  And he's much rather argue than clean his room! 

 

5. He doesn't get to make others miserable with his misery.  While you shouldn't expect him to be happy about what you want, and should probably ignore MINOR grumping (as long as he's otherwise obedient), he doesn't get to spread his misery.  He needs to learn to keep that misery to himself.  I know this goes against a lot of modern psychological thought, but I honestly believe that repression is a good thing.  We will feel in the way that we behave.  If we behave miserably, we feel miserable.  Allowing him to indulge his misery makes him even more miserable and spreads it like the flu to the rest of the family.  He can choose to repress his misery (and feel a little better) or he can choose to quarantine himself while he's being miserable, but he doesn't get to expose others to his misery.  Note: for those who don't get what I think is obvious, this is for self-inflicted attitude misery, not true misery of real problems (grandpa dies, dog dies, best friend is mean, etc).

 

6. Exercise is required.  It doesn't matter what.  But each day should start with exercise.  It not only will wear him out a little, but the natural endorphins that are produced during exercise will literally put him in a better mood.  I would try very hard to find something that he likes (be willing to spend a little money exploring that) but if he can't (or won't) choose something, then you choose something for him.  Just frame it in terms of phys ed/health, not a behavior issue.  "You need a phys ed credit this year.  Is there anything you would like to do, or try?  Or shall I choose something for you?  We can look online at different options."

 

7. You MUST have a daily break from him.  You just have to.  You will lose your ever-lovin' mind if you don't.  I scheduled quiet time in my house every day, from 2-4.  He was (supposed) to be doing schoolwork.  Frankly, it didn't matter all that much to me whether he did nor didn't.  I needed the break more than he needed the schoolwork.  I went to my room and (this is important) did NOT think about him.  You aren't going to solve the problem of his behavior in the late afternoon when you're spent.  Don't even try.  Use this as mental/emotional downtime.  Take a nap, watch TV, call a friend, whatever.  But do NOT think about him.

 

8. He needs a break from you, too.  Get him out of the house as much as you can.  He'll be happier and you'll be happier.

 

9. He not only needs exercise, but he needs places to be competent.  Again, it doesn't really matter all that much what.  For my son, it was two things: 1. he started taking on increasing amounts of household repairs/improvements.  Meaningful, manly work is very, very important to boys who are becoming men.  Yesterday he helped his father install a pre-hung back door, getting it level, shimmed, the whole thing.  2. he started doing more and more cooking.  Not just silly kid cooking, either.  The kid makes french food and sushi.  He's a massive help to me with getting dinners made.  It's meaningful work (not make-work) and it's a thing he does that I can be sincerely grateful and appreciative of.  Boys becoming men need to feel needed and relevant.  

 

10. In an awful lot of ways, boys at this stage are enormous toddlers.  They are growing by leaps and bounds (one year, my son grew 15 inches!  If I had only realized at the time what was happening, I swear, I might have given him an entire year off of school and let him go play Tom Sawyer that year).  They need tons of food and tons of sleep.  Their emotions are big and out of control.  They are capable enough to get into lots of things, but lack the wisdom to protect themselves.  If you can look at him and ask yourself, "If a toddler were acting like this, what would I think was needed?" you will be surprised at how often the answer is correct.  Does he need a snack?  Does he need a nap?  When he's in the middle of a meltdown, it might be helpful to say to him, "I don't think you really want to be acting like this.  You seem really tired to me.  Would you like a snack and a nap?  We could talk about it some more when you get up."  He might be relieved to have you understand what he can't figure out that he needs.

 

11. Hard as it is, try, try, try not to take it personally.  That was really hard for me.  I felt like I had given up a life out of the home so that I could raise and educate this kid in the best way I knew how and all I was getting in return was misery.  I was so, so resentful.  I'm not proud of that, but it was true at the time.  You will be a lot less miserable, and a lot more able to handle him, if you can try not to take it personally.  It's not about you, I promise.

 

12. There is nothing wrong with consequences, and I believe firmly that bad behavior should have consequences attached to it.  But consequences are not going to solve this.  They just aren't.  So, do punish, but don't expect that it's a solution.  Also, don't feel trapped into having a consequence immediately at hand.  He's not a toddler.  He will understand if the consequence comes later that day, or even days later.  And until you've actually decided on a consequence, keep your mouth shut about it.  Telling him "there will be a consequence" is just starting an argument.  It's foolish.  And it's fine for it to come "without warning" days later.  "I'm not taking you to the skate park tonight because two days ago you ______."  Then walk away.  Do not be available for the argument.  And don't feel like that's unfair.  It's absolutely fair.  He knows what he did, he knows it was wrong.  In life, consequences are seldom immediate and we seldom get a warning (if you run a red light where there's a camera, you may not get the ticket in the mail for weeks....but you know you did it and you know you were wrong).

 

I hope some of these things help.  They are just my thoughts, remembrances, and things I wish I had known sooner or done better.

 

My son is much, much better these days and is mostly the pleasant person I remember from before.  Yesterday I went on a  7 mile run and he came with me as my crew, carrying Gatorade and Gu.  He spent the whole time talking about stuff (mostly nonsense) and was good company.  

[KrissiK]

Well, I'll throw something else into the mix, and I don't know if any of you with highly confrontational children have had this experience but.... I think DS finds these "fights" to be cathartic. I've just noticed it over the past year or so. I hate "fighting". I am a peace keeper, but he does frustrate me to no end. So, I'll chew him out and after I'll feel like dirt, but he seems relieved. His actions and attitude are like those of a child who has just had a tremendous emotional release. He's much more cooperative and pleasant. And not in a "trying to please Mom so I don't get in trouble again" because he is never like that, but in a genuine "pent up tension is released and I feel better" sort of way. He never holds grudges. He's never sullen or vindictive. Like yesterday, after our blow up, he was all lovey dovey in the evening, hanging on DH, sitting on my lap for a back scratch. Which makes me sometimes wonder if he provokes these fights just to make himself feel better. I hate it.

[TammyS]

Well, I'll throw something else into the mix, and I don't know if any of you with highly confrontational children have had this experience but.... I think DS finds these "fights" to be cathartic. I've just noticed it over the past year or so. I hate "fighting". I am a peace keeper, but he does frustrate me to no end. So, I'll chew him out and after I'll feel like dirt, but he seems relieved. His actions and attitude are like those of a child who has just had a tremendous emotional release. He's much more cooperative and pleasant. And not in a "trying to please Mom so I don't get in trouble again" because he is never like that, but in a genuine "pent up tension is released and I feel better" sort of way. He never holds grudges. He's never sullen or vindictive. Like yesterday, after our blow up, he was all lovey dovey in the evening, hanging on DH, sitting on my lap for a back scratch. Which makes me sometimes wonder if he provokes these fights just to make himself feel better. I hate it.

 

IF that's the case, that he finds it cathartic, I'd say he definitely needs to find his endorphin release somewhere else.  I'd start with exercise and go from there.

 

I also wouldn't be all lovey-dovey right away after a blow up.  He needs to learn that when you are ugly to people, their emotions don't just turn on a dime just because he now feels better.  He needs to learn that other people have been HURT by his behavior and it takes a little time for that hurt to heal.

[KrissiK]

I agree with you in his absolute need for exercise. Which is why any time there is a sport or athletic activity offered, he is signed up. Summer, though, is hard. There's not a lot available in our small town. We don't have a pool (either personally or a public pool) and when it's 105 degrees outside, and no one else is out, I don't feel right about making him go out and play. However, he is signed up for a 3 day basketball camp next week and soccer should be starting again in a couple of weeks.

[Desert Strawberry]

If he is picking fights to release tension, give him a better outlet. You call yourself a peacekeeper. Does that mean you tend to gloss over things until they become unbearable? If that's the case, you might want to confront him immediately with some straight talk.

" You sound grumpy. Is there something you want to tell me?" 

" You sound like something is bothering you. Can you tell me what it is?" 

If he feels he doesn't have a safe outlet for his complaints, he may feel that fighting is his only option.

[happypamama]

I agree with the suggestion of martial arts.  Our instructor is very good at getting the children to focus, and at least the early belts are fairly easy to achieve, so my kids met with success quickly, which breeds enthusiasm and momentum, while gently building perseverance.  Plus, it motivates my children to take a second look at their behavior at home, because nobody wants to be the one who has to miss class and explain to the instructor why they are missing class.  I also think that at some point, an outside figure of authority can be helpful to children, like "it's not just my mom and dad who want me to behave, but someone else too."  He makes them do pushups if they're not showing the proper respect in class. ;)  But I also think some good long talks about what's bothering him might help -- perhaps in the car?  For some kids, maybe a notebook where they can write (or draw) what they're feeling and leave it for you to read and write back, would help, because it's less embarrassing than face-to-face.  

[gardenmom5]

 

5. He doesn't get to make others miserable with his misery. 

Note: for those who don't get what I think is obvious, this is for self-inflicted attitude misery, not true misery of real problems (grandpa dies, dog dies, best friend is mean, etc).

 

I've had to repeatedly tell dudeling - fake crying doesn't impress me, and needs to stop. it's also been a bit of an eye opener to him that yes, mom can tell the difference between you crying because you're legitimately upset/hurt and 'crying' to try and get your way.

 

6. Exercise is required.   the natural endorphins that are produced during exercise will literally put him in a better mood. 

Excercise gives you endorphins.  endorphins make you happy.  happy people just don't kill their husbands.  they just don't.  elle woods.  :laugh:

 

 

 

Well, I'll throw something else into the mix, and I don't know if any of you with highly confrontational children have had this experience but.... I think DS finds these "fights" to be cathartic.  makes me sometimes wonder if he provokes these fights just to make himself feel better. I hate it.

again - his nervous system sounds overwhelmed.   my sensory son loves to be tickled. he functions better afterwards.  (he fights all attempts to have him in appropriate physical sport. we tried a couple things this summer and I've made clear he's going back to swimming in sept.)  I remember a *need* to be tickled when I was younger (rarely got it), and even now a deep tissue massage because of the tension held deep in the muscles.  dh can give an adequate backrub, but he is not capable of going as deep as my muscles demand to release.

 

one thing that can be done indoors - regardless of weather - is yoga.  there are dvd's with male yogi's, some even fairly young guys.  they are ripped in a way that can be motivating to boys too.  it will give an outlet, it will also help realign his moods.

 

I agree with you in his absolute need for exercise. Which is why any time there is a sport or athletic activity offered, he is signed up. Summer, though, is hard. There's not a lot available in our small town. We don't have a pool (either personally or a public pool) and when it's 105 degrees outside, and no one else is out, I don't feel right about making him go out and play. However, he is signed up for a 3 day basketball camp next week and soccer should be starting again in a couple of weeks.

 

[fairfarmhand]

Following. DS turns 10 next month and has been throwing a lot of that tween/teen disrespect my way. :/

 

One piece of advice from my childhood though - if you do read a book called "The Explosive Child" or anything like that, you may not want to leave it where he can see it.  I remember when I was young my mom was reading something, it may have been "The Strong Willed Child." I saw it and thought "Oh yeah? You think I'm so bad you need a book to deal with me?" It made me angrier, in a "strong willed? I'll show you strong willed" kind of way. Gee, I don't know why she was reading that book.  :laugh:  

 

Actually me getting this book and a couple of others actually improved things with my daughter.

 

She looked at my pile of library books and said, "Mom, what's up with that?" I told her very calmly (neither one of  us were at all upset at this point, it was an honest question) that I was concerned about how she handled life. She fell apart far too easily and the trivial challenges of life seemed like they were too much for her to handle. She said, "Mom, I AM a teenager." I said, "Yes. But of all of your friends, I've talked to their moms. None of them have ever had issues like this as often as we have to go through it. It is not normal for teens to have meltdowns several times a week, So yes, I am concerned."

 

I found in the following weeks that she started trying to exhibit a greater degree of self control. I think she began to see that she COULD control the over the top emotional feelings. This was about a year ago, so she was 15. I can see in a younger child how it might backfire.

 

But for us cueing her in that her reactions were WAY out of bounds of what most of her friends were displaying actually worked in my favor.

[fairfarmhand]

:grouphug:   I have so been there and I feel your pain keenly, even though we are pretty much on the other side of it. 

 

My 15 (almost 16) year old was such a misery at that age.  And it lasted for about 3 years.  I remember days of just crying alone in my room because it was exactly what I had not wanted our life to be like.  And while I wasn't afraid he would hit me (or anyone else) I was afraid of what the intensity of his emotions might lead to (and yes, he was big, he's currently 6'8").

 

So, I don't know that any of these are solutions, but here are some thoughts from the other side, in no particular order:

 

1.  Try to separate his intelligence from his maturity.  I remember thinking, constantly, that I couldn't understand why he was behaving that way, because it wasn't like he was stupid.  Except, he sort of was.  The immaturity and hormones of the age acted like a depressant on his brain.  When you feel like, "he can't be this stupid", you need to believe that he can.

 

2. The Kevin Lehman stuff about "don't warn" is absolutely right.  Warnings are just argument starters.  The kid knows how to behave.  Warnings are really just YOU starting an argument.  Keep your mouth shut until he actually commits the violation. 

 

3. Kevin Lehman is also right about "don't be there" when anything may be an opening for an argument.  If you have to tell him about a consequence, or you ask him to do something, or anything else that he isn't going to like, tell him, then walk away.  Don't be there 10 seconds later.  Do not offer yourself for an argument.  Go to the bathroom, go to your room, shoot, get in the car and go to the store.  But don't be available for an argument.

 

4. Do not attempt to control his happiness.  One of the ways that parents get into trouble is by expecting their kids to be happy and positive all the time.  We not only want obedience, but we want approval.  That is inappropriately controlling. If you tell the kid to clean his room, and he goes off with a very minor amount of huffing, but does it, then call that a victory.  Standing there and griping at him about being disrespectful when he's just doing what he's told in an somewhat unhappy manner is begging him to argue with you.  And he's much rather argue than clean his room! 

 

5. He doesn't get to make others miserable with his misery.  While you shouldn't expect him to be happy about what you want, and should probably ignore MINOR grumping (as long as he's otherwise obedient), he doesn't get to spread his misery.  He needs to learn to keep that misery to himself.  I know this goes against a lot of modern psychological thought, but I honestly believe that repression is a good thing.  We will feel in the way that we behave.  If we behave miserably, we feel miserable.  Allowing him to indulge his misery makes him even more miserable and spreads it like the flu to the rest of the family.  He can choose to repress his misery (and feel a little better) or he can choose to quarantine himself while he's being miserable, but he doesn't get to expose others to his misery.  Note: for those who don't get what I think is obvious, this is for self-inflicted attitude misery, not true misery of real problems (grandpa dies, dog dies, best friend is mean, etc).

 

6. Exercise is required.  It doesn't matter what.  But each day should start with exercise.  It not only will wear him out a little, but the natural endorphins that are produced during exercise will literally put him in a better mood.  I would try very hard to find something that he likes (be willing to spend a little money exploring that) but if he can't (or won't) choose something, then you choose something for him.  Just frame it in terms of phys ed/health, not a behavior issue.  "You need a phys ed credit this year.  Is there anything you would like to do, or try?  Or shall I choose something for you?  We can look online at different options."

 

7. You MUST have a daily break from him.  You just have to.  You will lose your ever-lovin' mind if you don't.  I scheduled quiet time in my house every day, from 2-4.  He was (supposed) to be doing schoolwork.  Frankly, it didn't matter all that much to me whether he did nor didn't.  I needed the break more than he needed the schoolwork.  I went to my room and (this is important) did NOT think about him.  You aren't going to solve the problem of his behavior in the late afternoon when you're spent.  Don't even try.  Use this as mental/emotional downtime.  Take a nap, watch TV, call a friend, whatever.  But do NOT think about him.

 

8. He needs a break from you, too.  Get him out of the house as much as you can.  He'll be happier and you'll be happier.

 

9. He not only needs exercise, but he needs places to be competent.  Again, it doesn't really matter all that much what.  For my son, it was two things: 1. he started taking on increasing amounts of household repairs/improvements.  Meaningful, manly work is very, very important to boys who are becoming men.  Yesterday he helped his father install a pre-hung back door, getting it level, shimmed, the whole thing.  2. he started doing more and more cooking.  Not just silly kid cooking, either.  The kid makes french food and sushi.  He's a massive help to me with getting dinners made.  It's meaningful work (not make-work) and it's a thing he does that I can be sincerely grateful and appreciative of.  Boys becoming men need to feel needed and relevant.  

 

10. In an awful lot of ways, boys at this stage are enormous toddlers.  They are growing by leaps and bounds (one year, my son grew 15 inches!  If I had only realized at the time what was happening, I swear, I might have given him an entire year off of school and let him go play Tom Sawyer that year).  They need tons of food and tons of sleep.  Their emotions are big and out of control.  They are capable enough to get into lots of things, but lack the wisdom to protect themselves.  If you can look at him and ask yourself, "If a toddler were acting like this, what would I think was needed?" you will be surprised at how often the answer is correct.  Does he need a snack?  Does he need a nap?  When he's in the middle of a meltdown, it might be helpful to say to him, "I don't think you really want to be acting like this.  You seem really tired to me.  Would you like a snack and a nap?  We could talk about it some more when you get up."  He might be relieved to have you understand what he can't figure out that he needs.

 

11. Hard as it is, try, try, try not to take it personally.  That was really hard for me.  I felt like I had given up a life out of the home so that I could raise and educate this kid in the best way I knew how and all I was getting in return was misery.  I was so, so resentful.  I'm not proud of that, but it was true at the time.  You will be a lot less miserable, and a lot more able to handle him, if you can try not to take it personally.  It's not about you, I promise.

 

12. There is nothing wrong with consequences, and I believe firmly that bad behavior should have consequences attached to it.  But consequences are not going to solve this.  They just aren't.  So, do punish, but don't expect that it's a solution.  Also, don't feel trapped into having a consequence immediately at hand.  He's not a toddler.  He will understand if the consequence comes later that day, or even days later.  And until you've actually decided on a consequence, keep your mouth shut about it.  Telling him "there will be a consequence" is just starting an argument.  It's foolish.  And it's fine for it to come "without warning" days later.  "I'm not taking you to the skate park tonight because two days ago you ______."  Then walk away.  Do not be available for the argument.  And don't feel like that's unfair.  It's absolutely fair.  He knows what he did, he knows it was wrong.  In life, consequences are seldom immediate and we seldom get a warning (if you run a red light where there's a camera, you may not get the ticket in the mail for weeks....but you know you did it and you know you were wrong).

 

I hope some of these things help.  They are just my thoughts, remembrances, and things I wish I had known sooner or done better.

 

My son is much, much better these days and is mostly the pleasant person I remember from before.  Yesterday I went on a  7 mile run and he came with me as my crew, carrying Gatorade and Gu.  He spent the whole time talking about stuff (mostly nonsense) and was good company.  

 

I was going to come back and make all of these points, but you nailed it.

 

OP I am a little further down the road. My dd is 16 and is generally more pleasant to be around than she was at age 11. Still have rocky days, especially in transition times (coming home from camp, beginning of the school year) or when she's not had enough sleep or eaten correctly. And she's stubbornly resistant about mom telling her to take a nap, go to bed early or eat properly.

[TammyS]

I agree with you in his absolute need for exercise. Which is why any time there is a sport or athletic activity offered, he is signed up. Summer, though, is hard. There's not a lot available in our small town. We don't have a pool (either personally or a public pool) and when it's 105 degrees outside, and no one else is out, I don't feel right about making him go out and play. However, he is signed up for a 3 day basketball camp next week and soccer should be starting again in a couple of weeks.

 

I would never suggest sending a kid out in 105 heat.

 

As a runner, I always think of running, because it doesn't require special skill or equipment (other than decent shoes).  But anything he could go out early and do before the heat would be good.  Or he could take up something that he can do indoors: karate (there are lots of good martial arts videos you can buy cheap), weight lifting (dumbbells aren't that expensive), body weight/boot camp type exercises, etc.  If you can spend a little money, maybe look on craigslist for a piece of exercise equipment: treadmill, exercise bike, nordic trak, etc.

[Corraleno]

Well, I'll throw something else into the mix, and I don't know if any of you with highly confrontational children have had this experience but.... I think DS finds these "fights" to be cathartic. I've just noticed it over the past year or so. I hate "fighting". I am a peace keeper, but he does frustrate me to no end. So, I'll chew him out and after I'll feel like dirt, but he seems relieved. His actions and attitude are like those of a child who has just had a tremendous emotional release. He's much more cooperative and pleasant. And not in a "trying to please Mom so I don't get in trouble again" because he is never like that, but in a genuine "pent up tension is released and I feel better" sort of way. He never holds grudges. He's never sullen or vindictive. Like yesterday, after our blow up, he was all lovey dovey in the evening, hanging on DH, sitting on my lap for a back scratch. Which makes me sometimes wonder if he provokes these fights just to make himself feel better. I hate it.

 

The fact that he feels better after the outbursts suggests that stimulant meds might help him. Many ADHD kids "self-medicate" by provoking fights, because the jolt of adrenalin they get has basically the same effect as ritalin. For most people, that jolt of adrenalin makes them feel wired and stressed and unhappy, but for kids with AHDH, it can make them feel normal.

 

The fact that he also seeks physical contact — hanging on his dad, asking you for a back scratch — suggests possible sensory issues, too, which often go along with AHDH. They're both indications of a nervous system that is overwhelmed, and a child that needs help to cope with that. It also indicates that his outbursts are not really directed at you (no matter what he might say or do in the heat of the argument), and that he needs, and is actively seeking, emotional connection and reassurance. 

 

If you can see him through that lens, not as an obnoxious kid who's just trying to provoke you, but as a child who is doing the best he can to compensate for a medical problem that he simply lacks the tools to deal with, it may make it easier for you to take his behavior less personally. I would really urge you to get him evaluated, and to give him the appropriate tools and support he needs to manage his issues. I agree with others that lots of exercise is really important, but I think that sending him to school may just end up fobbing the behavior problems off on someone else without addressing the causes. It may also make him feel like he's being rejected and punished for not being able to control something that he's never been given the tools and resources to control.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  for both of you.

[Peaceful Isle]

Prayers for your family.

 

Can you think about maybe putting him in a private school,...just for one year? Maybe you guys need some space, and then you can focus on the others for a bit. I'm sure it breaks your heart to have this going on. My brother was a very confrontational child, and very difficult in his younger years. It was almost like his mood set the stage each day for the rest of us. By the time he was a teenager, he was hitting, kicking, and spitting at my mother and I at different times. Counseling would have been so good for my family, but my parents were too proud to do anything like that. It was kinda the..just keep plugging along and act like nothing is wrong.

 

Good for you for reaching out and trying to help your child. I would recommend counseling for you all to try to get to the heart of the matter.

Another thing, try not to blame yourself. Please. Everyone is responsible for their own choices, our kids included.

Hugs to you.

[Haiku]

I think that sending him to school may just end up fobbing the behavior problems off on someone else without addressing the causes. 

 

That's why I put my dd in school ... to let someone else deal with my dd for a while. It gave me a few hours a day where I wasn't on the verge of losing it, and I was able to deal with her more rationally when she did return home in the afternoon. We were caught in a negative feedback loop, and sending her to school was the first step in breaking that loop. (And yes, she wreaked havoc at school, too. Oh, well. I let them deal with it.)

 

Don't feel guilty if you send your son to school just to get him out of your hair. Sometimes you just need a break.

 

ETA: My dd did feel like she was being punished for a few weeks, and then she realized she liked school and enjoyed being there.

 

ETA2: I know exactly how you feel about how much different things are when the difficult child is out of the house. When my dd would be gone, it was like we were a different family. 

[Katy]

The fact that he feels better after the outbursts suggests that stimulant meds might help him. Many ADHD kids "self-medicate" by provoking fights, because the jolt of adrenalin they get has basically the same effect as ritalin. For most people, that jolt of adrenalin makes them feel wired and stressed and unhappy, but for kids with AHDH, it can make them feel normal.

 

The fact that he also seeks physical contact — hanging on his dad, asking you for a back scratch — suggests possible sensory issues, too, which often go along with AHDH. They're both indications of a nervous system that is overwhelmed, and a child that needs help to cope with that. It also indicates that his outbursts are not really directed at you (no matter what he might say or do in the heat of the argument), and that he needs, and is actively seeking, emotional connection and reassurance. 

 

If you can see him through that lens, not as an obnoxious kid who's just trying to provoke you, but as a child who is doing the best he can to compensate for a medical problem that he simply lacks the tools to deal with, it may make it easier for you to take his behavior less personally. I would really urge you to get him evaluated, and to give him the appropriate tools and support he needs to manage his issues. I agree with others that lots of exercise is really important, but I think that sending him to school may just end up fobbing the behavior problems off on someone else without addressing the causes. It may also make him feel like he's being rejected and punished for not being able to control something that he's never been given the tools and resources to control.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  for both of you.

 

This is really interesting.  We have an extended family member that is explosive and we don't find it fun to be around them because you never know when they'll explode; leaving all of us on edge and them feeling better.  This person is the one person in the family that I wouldn't have classified as having ADHD, I just thought they were emotionally troubled (it's an adult).  But the idea that they are self-medicating with adrenaline sounds completely spot-on to me.

[Storygirl]

 

 

I also wouldn't be all lovey-dovey right away after a blow up.  He needs to learn that when you are ugly to people, their emotions don't just turn on a dime just because he now feels better.  He needs to learn that other people have been HURT by his behavior and it takes a little time for that hurt to heal.

 

 

I have to disagree with this. I have some challenging children myself, and one of the things that I've been learning is that these children need MORE affection and positive attention, not less. Sometimes one of the root problems is that the child feels misunderstood or unliked by the parent, because they are always being chastised. To make sure that he feels loved, it is important for them to hear more positive and less negative from the parents (this is so hard -- I fail at it all the time). If the child is seeking affection, give as much as you can!  Sometimes this is hard, because we don't naturally have positive feelings toward someone who has just been unpleasant to us. Our children need to know that while we dislike their negative behavior, we do not dislike them and that we are always on their side.

 

The fact that he feels better after the outbursts suggests that stimulant meds might help him. Many ADHD kids "self-medicate" by provoking fights, because the jolt of adrenalin they get has basically the same effect as ritalin. For most people, that jolt of adrenalin makes them feel wired and stressed and unhappy, but for kids with AHDH, it can make them feel normal.

 

The fact that he also seeks physical contact — hanging on his dad, asking you for a back scratch — suggests possible sensory issues, too, which often go along with AHDH. They're both indications of a nervous system that is overwhelmed, and a child that needs help to cope with that. It also indicates that his outbursts are not really directed at you (no matter what he might say or do in the heat of the argument), and that he needs, and is actively seeking, emotional connection and reassurance. 

 

If you can see him through that lens, not as an obnoxious kid who's just trying to provoke you, but as a child who is doing the best he can to compensate for a medical problem that he simply lacks the tools to deal with, it may make it easier for you to take his behavior less personally. I would really urge you to get him evaluated, and to give him the appropriate tools and support he needs to manage his issues. I agree with others that lots of exercise is really important, but I think that sending him to school may just end up fobbing the behavior problems off on someone else without addressing the causes. It may also make him feel like he's being rejected and punished for not being able to control something that he's never been given the tools and resources to control.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  for both of you.

 

I agree with everything in this post. I have a 10 year old son with both ADHD and sensory issues, and his entire life is affected by them, including his ability to get along with others. If your son's issues have a root in either of these issues (or both), getting help will make a huge difference. We were aware that DS struggled with these things but didn't seek help until earlier this year. I cannot tell you what a difference it has made. And I am in no position to suggest a diagnosis for your son, but I will say that many of the things you have posted sound very very familiar :glare: .

[KrissiK]

The fact that he feels better after the outbursts suggests that stimulant meds might help him. Many ADHD kids "self-medicate" by provoking fights, because the jolt of adrenalin they get has basically the same effect as ritalin. For most people, that jolt of adrenalin makes them feel wired and stressed and unhappy, but for kids with AHDH, it can make them feel normal.

 

The fact that he also seeks physical contact — hanging on his dad, asking you for a back scratch — suggests possible sensory issues, too, which often go along with AHDH. They're both indications of a nervous system that is overwhelmed, and a child that needs help to cope with that. It also indicates that his outbursts are not really directed at you (no matter what he might say or do in the heat of the argument), and that he needs, and is actively seeking, emotional connection and reassurance.

 

If you can see him through that lens, not as an obnoxious kid who's just trying to provoke you, but as a child who is doing the best he can to compensate for a medical problem that he simply lacks the tools to deal with, it may make it easier for you to take his behavior less personally. I would really urge you to get him evaluated, and to give him the appropriate tools and support he needs to manage his issues. I agree with others that lots of exercise is really important, but I think that sending him to school may just end up fobbing the behavior problems off on someone else without addressing the causes. It may also make him feel like he's being rejected and punished for not being able to control something that he's never been given the tools and resources to control.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: for both of you.

Ok, wow! I never thought about it this way before. Every time I thought about ADHD I just thought about frazzled parents with rambunctious little boys who can't sit still in school for 6 hours at a time, so they drug them. My DS can focus. He can concentrate and sit still. He loves to be read aloud to. We went to Fresno last week, 1 1/2 hours round trip in the p car and he was as still as a mouse in his seat the whole time listening to Jonathan Park. He doesn't fidget. But the chemical stuff you described and the sensory stuff.... that sounds spot on.