? For Christians with grown children....

[Prairie~Phlox]

Have any of you raised your children as Christian and then they totally turn away from the Lord? I have a dfriend that has a few grown children, all married & and two are now proclaimed athiest & 1 that doesn't see the importance of fellowship (not sure where he's at). My df also has issues with her 12 & 15 year old already having serious rationships. She always asks what she's doing wrong. My other friend and I know, but just can't bring our selves to tell her. It really stems from various issues. It makes me think though about my own children & I pray that when they are grown that they don't walk the other way. Though we are more similar in our parenting style to our pastor and all of his kids have a strong faith. So have any of you dealth with this and do you have any thing that you would do differently now?

[ThisIsTheDay]

I have a few friends whose kids have become very lost.  I remind them that Adam and Eve had the PERFECT parent, and even that wasn't enough. 

 

At some point, it has nothing to do with what the parents do, or don't do.  It's not because of you. It's can be comforting to think that, in the hopes that it won't happen to us, or to our kid, but like any lie of satan, it's a false reassurance.

[LucyStoner]

My ILs were not especially active or devout unspecified Protestants and they have two 30 something athiest sons.

 

My parents were very active and devout Catholics and they ended up with:

 

-one atheist who goes to church fairly often. Yours truly.

-one laidback believer who doesn't go to church often anymore and not to a Catholic one when he does go but has Christian religious beliefs and teaches his children about his faith.

-one self identified Christian but not a Catholic. This one also thinks he's not an alcoholic or a wife beater, but he is. Not to say that there are not Christians with addictions and family violence but I don't really put much stock into his claims of any sort, faith or not. If he goes to church it must meet in the bathroom at his favorite bar. In a way, I really wish he would be more religious. It might help him.

[Chris in VA]

We're a clergy family (so, "super Christian" lol...) and one of ours is agnostic/atheist--he does believe in something, but it's not at all like the Judeo-Christian God.

 

I'd do a number of things differently, but the main one is probably be more intentional about listening to his questions and staying in a closer, more intentional relationship with him, instead of trusting Sunday School and the church to provide his Christian education.

 

Sad, eh?

 

I'm comforted by the fact that I cannot see the future, and there is always hope. AND that it's simply not my job to ensure his relationship with God.

[retiredHSmom]

My grandmother had five children and only one is Christian today. The other four are atheist/pagan/exploring.

 

My mother had five children and today three are Christian, two are atheist/agnostic.

 

I have two in college and so far both still follow the religion they were brought up in (Catholic)

[Myeightkiddies]

Free Will.

 

No matter how you raise them. No matter what you do (or don't do).  In the end, the choice is theirs.

[Liz CA]

I agree with the free will...but there is a promise in the bible. If we train them up with biblical principles, they will not depart from it. It may take a short or long time for them to come back to it but they may - according to this scripture and if you take it literally. As with anything, interpretation is key.

[Happy]

My in laws raised six men into strong vibrate active Christians. Among the children of those men, there are many shades and differences...from Christians to agnostics, to interested in Buddhism...

 

My two sons are among the agnostic types...

 

Very disheartening...I thought I was raising young men who would love the Lord.

[gardenmom5]

I have four adult children - all practicing our faith becasue they want to.  including one who turned away as a teen, but came back.

 

My parents both turned away from the mainstream religious teaching of their youth.  my mother was agnostic.

 

My observation of why they did - religion was used as a weapon, and a means of control.  there was alot of coercion using "god will ___ you if you don't ___", and what was modeled by their mother's was NOT a loving God, but a controlling one.  (even as a teen, I used to joke my maternal grandmother worshipped a god of death, hell, fire, brimstone, and destruction.)

I've observed what drives many to leave religion entirely - and make them atheist is often they were raised with a controlling God.  I'm deeply religious, and have a strong belief in a Loving God - but I also understand why those raised as my parents were raised want nothing to do with religion.

[busymama7]

Free Will.

 

No matter how you raise them. No matter what you do (or don't do). In the end, the choice is theirs.

I agree in the end. But in the short term I think there are things that parents can do or not do to encourage the building of a testimony within their children. I don't have the answers, our oldest is only 17. But all our teens are very strong right now in their faith. I think really living your faith, appologizing/repenting with your children aware helps. Family relationships and traditions with regards to faith. Attending church no matter what as just routine and true importance. Reading scriptures together and praying daily together. Building times for the children to feel the spirit and pointing out to them what they are feeling. Showing them when God answers prayers. Encourage them to pray for things thy are important to them. Giving them chances to make choices and feel the consequences for their choices after being taught correct principles.

 

Really living faith in a meaningful way daily. They do see that and it does affect them. In the end it has to be their choice of course. But you can do all you can.

[zoobie]

My parents are Christian (evangelical Protestant). Church was required Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday. I joined the church and was Baptized because it was expected, but I never truly believed. They are perfectly lovely people. There's nothing they could have done differently to change how my brain works. We have never expressly talked about religion now that I'm grown. Perhaps they don't want to know for sure, or more likely they know that I am my own person. I'm happily married with 4 children and have put myself through college, graduate, and law school. I don't kick small children or kittens. If they are disappointed in me because I have differing religious beliefs than they do, well, that's their choice I suppose.

[countrygal]

You say you think you know what she is doing wrong but are too scared to tell her. What is it that you think she is doing 'wrong' (or not right)? If you are close enough to her that she confided in you about how this distresses her, you should tell her in a gentle way. And help her if you can. In the end, it's the person's choice, and even being the 'best' mother or Christian isn't a guarantee. I do not have grown children, so I can't advise if what I'm doing is 'working' or not! It is something I think about though.

[Joanne]

The books Already Gone and Why Christian Kids Rebel might answer some of your questions.

 

It seems to me that that IS the Christian parenting dilemma. You can't will faith or belief. It is either a gift and therefore arbitrarily given or it is an act of will and therefore earned.

[texasmama]

I have one adult child who has remained in the Christian faith. My other kids are 13 and under. My approach has been to not major in the minors. It is important to me that they retain a Christian faith, but I am not concerned with denomination in the least. I stay away from legalism at all costs. There is plenty of room for questioning in our house. I have done plenty of it myself.

[Ellie]

You know, God doesn't have grandchildren. Each person has to decide on his own whether he will serve God. That his parents did the right things or the wrong things may help him choose, but there are no guarantees. Adam and Eve had a perfect Parent, and they still chose to sin.

 

Mr. Ellie and I did the best we could, and I don't think either of us has regrets. One of our daughters is walking with God, one is not. We pray for both of them.

[HS Mom in NC]

My oldest isn't a believer.  My husband walked away from his faith (or what he thought was his faith, depending on your views on that) years ago but that didn't stop me from living my faith and teaching my kids and taking them to church.  He was respectful of that.  What we really need to do in this discussion is clarify what we believe salvation is and where it comes from.

I define "Christian" as someone who has been spiritually regenerated by the Holy Spirit. (See Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus for details.)  Parents cannot regenerate or contribute to a child's chances of regeneration no matter how they parent.  Believing parents can either be a faithful witness to their children or not, but salvation is not a parenting issue.  If it were, then no one would have come to salvation to begin with when Jesus came.  His disciples didn't have Christian parents.  All those first  believers in the NT  either came out of Judaism or one of the many flavors of paganism. They still got saved. How many of us here had unbelieving parents but we became believers anyway? How a person was parented can't stop them from being saved nor can it get them saved. Even before Christianity, remember that Samuel's sons didn't follow in his ways either.

 

I would weep out of bitter sadness if my children as adults only believe in Jesus because I do.  That's not being regenerated by the Holy Spirit through faith and repentance.  That's a whitewashed tomb full of spiritual rot and decay-pretty on the outside by not brought to life on the inside.  If a person's Christianity is all about outward conformity, tradition, culture, intellectualism, superstition, social acceptance, family culture, etc. it's not salvation. Those are all the people who Jesus told us would hear, "Depart from Me.  I never knew you."

Pray for your child's salvation.  Be a faithful witness living out your faith daily so Jesus will say to you, "Well done, good and faithful servant."  The NT focuses on the inner, spiritual matters, so be very familiar with it.  Have a daily, constant, personal relationship with Him. That's all you can do. 

Salvation comes from God, not mommy and daddy. Not through church attendance or classes. Not through meeting outward standards of morality. The NT tells us the demons believe and tremble and instantly recognized in full who Jesus was and immediately submitted to His authority when they saw Him.  They're not saved. Paul, then Saul, along with the religious leaders of the time, kept the law. They had all the Bible available up to then memorized.They weren't saved. They couldn't even begin to think Jesus was the Christ in spite of all their knowledge and adherence to The Law. Paul had to meet Jesus and be spiritually reborn apart from all his knowledge, culture, religious education, and memorization of Scripture. 

We frequent church goers and kids raised in Christian homes need to keep asking ourselves, "How am I any different than a demon or a Pharisee?"  Our kids will have to do the same. We all come to Jesus individually. No one can live a spiritual life for anyone else. Once your children are adults, they get to decide how they're going to live and they're responsible for it.  Love them no matter what they do. If you did your job being a faithful witness, you can answer to God with a clear conscience no matter which way the kids go.  They'll have to answer to God themselves.

[HS Mom in NC]

It seems to me that that IS the Christian parenting dilemma. You can't will faith or belief. It is either a gift and therefore arbitrarily given or it is an act of will and therefore earned.

 

Absolutely!

 

(I didn't include the books in the quote for agreement because I've never read them and have no opinion.)

 

[livetoread]

I can't think of anything my folks could have done differently to keep me believing. They are good people and we have a close relationship. My journey into unbelief had nothing to do with them. It breaks my heart to know they worry for me and wonder what they could have done differently. I wish they could come to some peace around it. It helps that we don't discuss it.

[Joanne]

Absolutely!

 

(I didn't include the books in the quote for agreement because I've never read them and have no opinion.)

 

AZ HS mom, I know better than that. You have an opinion about, well, nearly everything. ;)

[shukriyya]

My ILs were not especially active or devout unspecified Protestants and they have two 30 something athiest sons.

 

My parents were very active and devout Catholics and they ended up with:

 

-one atheist who goes to church fairly often. Yours truly.

 

 

Okay, I love the open-ended and comfortable ambiguity of this!

[Jasperstone]

My oldest isn't a believer. My husband walked away from his faith (or what he thoughet was his faith, depending on your views on that) years ago but that didn't stop me from living my faith and teaching my kids and taking them to church. He was respectful of that. What we really need to do in this discussion is clarify what we believe salvation is and where it comes from.

 

I define "Christian" as someone who has been spiritually regenerated by the Holy Spirit. (See Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus for details.) Parents cannot regenerate or contribute to a child's chances of regeneration no matter how they parent. Believing parents can either be a faithful witness to their children or not, but salvation is not a parenting issue. If it were, then no one would have come to salvation to begin with when Jesus came. His disciples didn't have Christian parents. All those first believers in the NT either came out of Judaism or one of the many flavors of paganism. They still got saved. How many of us here had unbelieving parents but we became believers anyway? How a person was parented can't stop them from being saved nor can it get them saved. Even before Christianity, remember that Samuel's sons didn't follow in his ways either.

 

I would weep out of bitter sadness if my children as adults only believe in Jesus because I do. That's not being regenerated by the Holy Spirit through faith and repentance. That's a whitewashed tomb full of spiritual rot and decay-pretty on the outside by not brought to life on the inside. If a person's Christianity is all about outward conformity, tradition, culture, intellectualism, superstition, social acceptance, family culture, etc. it's not salvation. Those are all the people who Jesus told us would hear, "Depart from Me. I never knew you."

 

Pray for your child's salvation. Be a faithful witness living out your faith daily so Jesus will say to you, "Well done, good and faithful servant." The NT focuses on the inner, spiritual matters, so be very familiar with it. Have a daily, constant, personal relationship with Him. That's all you can do.

 

Salvation comes from God, not mommy and daddy. Not through church attendance or classes. Not through meeting outward standards of morality. The NT tells us the demons believe and tremble and instantly recognized in full who Jesus was and immediately submitted to His authority when they saw Him. They're not saved. Paul, then Saul, along with the religious leaders of the time, kept the law. They had all the Bible available up to then memorized.They weren't saved. They couldn't even begin to think Jesus was the Christ in spite of all their knowledge and adherence to The Law. Paul had to meet Jesus and be spiritually reborn apart from all his knowledge, culture, religious education, and memorization of Scripture.

 

We frequent church goers and kids raised in Christian homes need to keep asking ourselves, "How am I any different than a demon or a Pharisee?" Our kids will have to do the same. We all come to Jesus individually. No one can live a spiritual life for anyone else. Once your children are adults, they get to decide how they're going to live and they're responsible for it. Love them no matter what they do. If you did your job being a faithful witness, you can aneswer to God with a clear conscience no matter which way the kids go. They'll have to answer to God themselves.

 

 

This ^^^^^

[Cammie]

Hmm, until reading this thread I never thought that I might have deeply disappointed my parents.  I am the daughter of a minister.  Neither my brother nor I are active in the Christian church.  Neither one of us is deeply "religious" in the traditional sense.  I married a Hindu and am raising two children with Hindu-Christian beliefs (I KNOW that made a few of you cringe!)  My brother is VERY spiritual but not religious.  Honestly, I can say that I feel our intimate and close up look at the true nature of organized religion in American really ruined it for us.  My father was pastor at 4 different churches and the President of a VERY prominent Christian organization.  Within those groups I have seen the WORST of humanity.  I have no desire to affiliate in such groups and open myself up to such people ever again.    However both my parents are still very active practicing Christians.  It is not an issue in my family and I would have really resented it if it had been.

[DawnM]

It is very hard.  I have a dear friend who has 3 grown children.  2 have walked away from the faith.  She and her husband pray for them daily.  

 

My children are not grown yet and as of right now, all 3 have a strong relationship with the Lord.  My oldest's Christian faith looks very different than the rest of us.  He has Asperger's and his views on God are often deeper in many ways, but they aren't relational like the rest of us.  He doesn't like going to church (too many perky people he says!  :lol: ), and he doesn't enjoy what we would consider vital fellowship.

 

I can't predict what my children will end up doing with their faith.  I can pray for them, love them, and pray for them some more.

 

Dawn

[Prairie~Phlox]

I have four adult children - all practicing our faith becasue they want to. including one who turned away as a teen, but came back.

 

My parents both turned away from the mainstream religious teaching of their youth. my mother was agnostic.

 

My observation of why they did - religion was used as a weapon, and a means of control. there was alot of coercion using "god will ___ you if you don't ___", and what was modeled by their mother's was NOT a loving God, but a controlling one. (even as a teen, I used to joke my maternal grandmother worshipped a god of death, hell, fire, brimstone, and destruction.)

I've observed what drives many to leave religion entirely - and make them atheist is often they were raised with a controlling God. I'm deeply religious, and have a strong belief in a Loving God - but I also understand why those raised as my parents were raised want nothing to do with religion.

This is what they do. Also the wife is big into Created To Be His Help Meet and it's like she puts her husband above God. She can't make any decisions without checking with him first. If I called her up at the last minute & said, can you meet for lunch, she would have to call him at work and run it by him. I'm no way (along with another friend) going to tell her these are the problems that I see.

[MysteryJen]

My father used to drive my mother crazy saying that faith was a gift. When I was younger, I wasn't sure that he was right. It seemed that you could will yourself to belief.

But now, I think he was right. My Dh and a couple of my kids have it. They just don't struggle in the same ways that the rest of us do.

 

I am sure that I will end up with a mix of believers and skeptics. Parented the same way, with the same prayers for them.

[Reefgazer]

My kids are very young, so I am speaking for myself as a child of a Christian household.  I am grown now, but was raised as a Christian, and I have a slightly different take on this.  I think many young people/young adults turn away from Christianity when they first spread their wings and become independent; it's part of learning who you are and growing up, rather than just blindly accepting what you have been taught.  Some stay away for quite some time, and have little to nothing to do with the religion in which they were raised.  But many, like me,  find their way back, for one reason or another, after they grown up, settle down, and have children.  I think this is probably a normal right of passage for many young adults, and is not necessarily a permanent state of mind.  Either way, I don't think you can force belief in any way.

[Laurie4b]

This is what they do. Also the wife is big into Created To Be His Help Meet and it's like she puts her husband above God. She can't make any decisions without checking with him first. If I called her up at the last minute & said, can you meet for lunch, she would have to call him at work and run it by him. I'm no way (along with another friend) going to tell her these are the problems that I see.

 

 

I'm puzzled as to why you are asking the question. It sounds like you already know what is causing the issues for her kids and have concluded you're not going to tell her. Is that correct? Or are you looking for resources that you could point her to that could help her without you telling her directly?

 

Why Christian Kids Rebel is good. There are also websites where kids raised in environments like this post about their experiences. I can't remember any well enough to give you links, but you could google around. There is one for kids who were homeschooled. That one overlaps with religion. I just read one where a guy with a tag musicman described leaving faith as he saw treatment of women play out. (He was an adult; it was not his upbringing but his experience in an unhealthy and controlling church environment where he saw women treated as 2nd class citizens.)  You could look around on Patheos.

 

 

[DawnM]

Wow.  I could not imagine being married to someone like that nor would I EVER think that way.

 

I am not even sure I could hang out with someone like that.

 

We had a woman like that in our scout troop.  It was impossible to ever talk to her about anything......it was always, "let me check with my husband."  Her husband is a royal jerk who have no time to even associate with.  

 

Ok, end of rant.

 

Dawn

 

 

This is what they do. Also the wife is big into Created To Be His Help Meet and it's like she puts her husband above God. She can't make any decisions without checking with him first. If I called her up at the last minute & said, can you meet for lunch, she would have to call him at work and run it by him. I'm no way (along with another friend) going to tell her these are the problems that I see.

 

[Joanne]

Or, it is an act of will and chosen with a heart of submission and repentence.

Willing faith is counter intuitive. I can see willing spiritual discipline practices. In fact I did that for years.

 

But a heart of submission and repentance? I pass; not a world view that fits with the God that emerged from my spiritual discipline.

[Murphy101]

Ahh. Well it sounds like her kids aren't turning from the faith so much as turning away from spiritual abuse presented as faith. Good for them.

 

I hope they meet other Christians who can lead them to a happier and healthier view of what it means to walk in faith.

[Ellie]

Never mind. :-)

[Spryte]

OP, could you gently talk to your friend?  I think you said that you and another friend know what your dear friend is doing wrong, and if she's asking...  (bad paraphrase, but that's what I took away from your OP, correct me if I'm wrong).  Maybe there's a way to gently, kindly give her your thoughts?  If she's really asking, "What am I doing wrong?" and not just rhetorically lamenting what's happening in her life.  Maybe she's not asking for an answer, just complaining.  

 

DH's parents are devout Catholics, and not one of their three kids (who all attended Catholic schools, one even through college), is still practicing.  FIL has said to me that he thinks where they went "wrong" was in trusting the Church and school to guide the kids to staying in the Church.  They raised one atheist and 2 agnostics.

 

My protestant parents raised an atheist and an agnostic.  

 

 

ETA:  Oops, I see you addressed the issue of telling her the problems you see.  Sorry I missed that!  In that case, just listening to her is being a wonderful friend, of course, and it's great that she has you in her life.   :grouphug:

[Tess in the Burbs]

My sister and I had to go to church growing up.  My dad wouldn't go b/c it wasn't his denomination.  Mom wouldn't change her denomination.  We both were baptized about 8-9 years old.  My sister is a non believer at this point in her life and has said she only got baptized b/c everyone else was.  I saw that in a church when my kids were toddlers and I didn't want them to just go through that b/c of the age.  I wanted it to be their choice.  Both have on their own asked to be saved and were baptized but they were young.  We didn't stop them, but my dd has said her faith isn't strong.  She sees my faith and feels like she's missing something.  But I was strong in my faith as a teen, walked away for many years, and came back.  My sister just says all along she never believed.  She almost has a hatred toward God.  Not just a non believer, but hatred about it all.  

 

I can't make my kids believers.  They have to want that relationship and nurture it.  I do ask they attend church on Sunday.  They enjoy it.  I encourage reading their Bible.  I know in the future they will walk away like I did.  I can only pray they will want to live their faith as adults.  I just do not see many kids who stay firm in those early 20's.  I think walking away is part of growing up and figuring out who you are and not what your family was.  I pray for their faith and trust God.  Who knows what will happen.  

 

I do think you either come to faith and it's there all along or you never do after my own life and seeing my sister where she is.  She has struggled most of her life...and rejected faith from an early age.  It seems the more she turns away, the worse things get for her.  But she can't see that.  

 

So for us, we ask they pursue being active in church in our household, but if they gain faith from that is up to them and God.  They do a devotional at home and both asked to do a Bible Study together this year.  We have done church at home in the past and both prefer that.  

 

Honestly, if they grow up and have a relationship but aren't in a church I am ok with that.  I have found many churches not to be welcoming and it makes me sad.  I spend this week at VBS surrounded by people who know me, but few bother to even speak.  The guest pastor spoke of churches full of people wanting to belong...I get what he is saying.  My relationship with God has sustained me over the years, not church.  I wouldn't base success on church attendance.  i would base it on living their faith out in their lives. 

[Joanne]

My sister and I had to go to church growing up. My dad wouldn't go b/c it wasn't his denomination. Mom wouldn't change her denomination. We both were baptized about 8-9 years old. My sister is a non believer at this point in her life and has said she only got baptized b/c everyone else was. I saw that in a church when my kids were toddlers and I didn't want them to just go through that b/c of the age. I wanted it to be their choice. Both have on their own asked to be saved and were baptized but they were young. We didn't stop them, but my dd has said her faith isn't strong. She sees my faith and feels like she's missing something. But I was strong in my faith as a teen, walked away for many years, and came back. My sister just says all along she never believed. She almost has a hatred toward God. Not just a non believer, but hatred about it all.

 

 

 

I do think you either come to faith and it's there all along or you never do after my own life and seeing my sister where she is. She has struggled most of her life...and rejected faith from an early age. It seems the more she turns away, the worse things get for her. But she can't see that.

 

 

I had a dear friend recently "confront" me with this correlation. It served only to reinforce my "turning away." Over time, I have come to see it not as turning away from God (in fact, I feel more spiritual than when I was Christian) but away from theology and doctrine that I believe to be terribly flawed.

 

The suggestion that my "struggles" were correlated with leaving a Christian God-concept was infuriating and has impacted negatively my relationship with the friend. I wish she had not said - and I wish her thinking was not along those lines.

[texasmama]

This is a very interesting discussion, and I appreciate all parties' input in it.

 

I can only speak of my personal experience, both growing up and in my own family.

 

We attend a church which is very service oriented.  People put their actions where their mouths are.  If one of my boys expresses a desire to skip church one Sunday, we allow them to stay home.  We do not put pressure on the kids to join age-peers in church settings.  My younger son found children's church too babyish for him - he is a very mature kid.  My older son found the youth group too loud and disrespectful for him - he is an introvert.  So they don't attend those activities - they attend the service with us.

 

I have, thus far in life, been able to mentally overcome the bad name given to Christianity by the church and by Christians.  I've seen plenty, but I keep ever mindful that people's negative actions do not represent God, even if they slap His name on it.  In my opinion and experience, it is Christians who give the Church (with a big C, not a little c) a bad name. 

 

We use some Christian curriculum. I point out where I disagree with it to my kids and encourage discussions about how they don't buy into all of it.  My older son has a lot of skepticism in him regarding some of the curriculum, and I am just fine with that.  My hope is that by demonstrating that the tenets of following Christ are really pretty basic and don't have to involve the age of the earth or how baptism is carried out, they will make the choice to follow.  I am loosey-goosey with a lot of theology by choice and purpose, and I am VERY comfortable telling my kids and anyone else, "I don't know the answer to that but it is not important to me that I do.  It does not change the relationship I have with Christ."

 

I hope this points my children to Christ and not away from Him.  Ultimately, the choice is theirs, of course.

[LLMom]

Yep, my 21 year old son.  Homeschooled all the way and a proclaimed atheist. There are no guarantees no matter how we raise them that they will turn out "well".  They have free will.  You may think you know what she is doing wrong, but it could also be them.  

[Tess in the Burbs]

I had a dear friend recently "confront" me with this correlation. It served only to reinforce my "turning away." Over time, I have come to see it not as turning away from God (in fact, I feel more spiritual than when I was Christian) but away from theology and doctrine that I believe to be terribly flawed.

 

The suggestion that my "struggles" were correlated with leaving a Christian God-concept was infuriating and has impacted negatively my relationship with the friend. I wish she had not said - and I wish her thinking was not along those lines.

I would certainly never tell my sister that and I know many would not agree with my statement.  It is my belief and no one has to agree.  I know many non believers who don't struggle in life.  I think in the case of my sister, she seems to have shaken her fist at God in a public/vocal way and it's just an observation that the more she blames God for her struggles, the more struggle she encounters.  She blamed mom for years, now she blames God for her life.  I personally think if she would just stop focusing so much hatred on any one person/idea perhaps she could get life going in a more positive way.  I found my own life goes better when in prayer daily and growing my faith not running from it.  Again, it's my opinion and I know probably not one many would agree with.  I'm a quiet kind and don't tell people what I think out loud.  

 

I am sorry your friend made you feel like you were wrong in how you handled your own life.  That is not nice and loving as Christ would call us to be.  And I agree the church is seriously flawed.  And I see in my own family, we thrive when doing our own study at home, not in a large church. 

[PrincessMommy]

I had a dear friend recently "confront" me with this correlation. It served only to reinforce my "turning away." Over time, I have come to see it not as turning away from God (in fact, I feel more spiritual than when I was Christian) but away from theology and doctrine that I believe to be terribly flawed.

 

The suggestion that my "struggles" were correlated with leaving a Christian God-concept was infuriating and has impacted negatively my relationship with the friend. I wish she had not said - and I wish her thinking was not along those lines.

 

that would be infuriating.   One only needs to look all around and see it's totally untrue.  Good grief...there are plenty of serious Christians who suffer terribly.

[OH_Homeschooler]

I have a few friends whose kids have become very lost.  I remind them that Adam and Eve had the PERFECT parent, and even that wasn't enough. 

 

At some point, it has nothing to do with what the parents do, or don't do.  It's not because of you. It's can be comforting to think that, in the hopes that it won't happen to us, or to our kid, but like any lie of satan, it's a false reassurance.

 

Might I suggest that describing someone who was raised Christian but decided not to pursue a Christian life is not, in fact, lost? I can say in my case, every step I took on the path to atheism from Christianity was in fact taken with extreme thoughtfulness.

 

I understand that it can be hurtful to see your children choose a path that is different from your own. But not being a church-goer or a believer does not make someone a bad person. 

[1bassoon]

And there's this:

 

My in-laws turned from the Catholic (ethnic) church they were raised in, and forged a new path, that involved New Age, Buddhism, and all sorts of stuff (Theosophical Society chief among those).

 

All three of their kids ended up being very strong, committed, born-again believers in Jesus.

 

I find it fascinating, but have no answers.

[gardenmom5]

This is what they do. Also the wife is big into Created To Be His Help Meet and it's like she puts her husband above God. :blink:  :svengo:  I guess someone needs a dictionary to know what "helpmeet" Means.  (meet for. equal too. complimentary. e.g. so the oxen are equally yoked.)

 

She can't make any decisions without checking with him first. If I called her up at the last minute & said, can you meet for lunch, she would have to call him at work and run it by him. I'm no way (along with another friend) going to tell her these are the problems that I see.

 

I consider that a disrespectful, controlling and demeaning relationship. I also consider it to be UNchristian.  Jesus never treated women that way.

 

oh - and parents who do that to children end up with children who are unable to make decisions. when my grandmother died, my mother and especially my sister (who relied upon grandmother) were really up a creek because they couldn't stand on their own two feet.

 

dh and I put our individual relationship with God first, (i.e. the first of the ten commandments, thou shalt have no other Gods before me; when the lawyers ask Jesus what is the great commandment 'though shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, might, mind, and strength.)

then our relationship with each other comes after that.  we are equals in our relationship.

 

my mother was raised with a mother who used religion as a weapon and means of controlling others. she claimed to be a christian - but I certainly didn't *ever* see much in her behavior that would ever make me think - Oh, there's a christian.  I HAVE known Christians that truly glow with the love and service to others that emenates from them.

 

over the years, I was able to share many sweet and tender experiences of the spirit of my own with my mother.  one of the impressions I was left with after conversations with her, was she liked what I told her and wished she could believe it firsthand the way I did, but the conditioning of her youth was very deep and she was afraid. (I got my grandmother's garbage second hand and know how hard it had been for me to over come it.  It took me years.)

 

  also, because she had made some extremely poor choices, she felt it was too late. (mom couldn't grasp the concept of repentance, because it wasn't taught to her.  I've spoken with others with similar backgrounds to her, and their attitude was very unforgiving of someone who made bad choices, even if they had completely turned their lives around.  I guess they wouldn't have liked Paul either.)

My very last conversation with her was my being able to share how much I believed the Lord loved her and wanted her to be happy.  she had asked me what I believed, because apparently my brother (who changes beliefs often and on whims.  he's also incredibly pushy.) was on a 'if you don't repent you'll go to h3ll', and' this is what h3ll is like' roll. 

 

[gardenmom5]

I had a dear friend recently "confront" me with this correlation. It served only to reinforce my "turning away." Over time, I have come to see it not as turning away from God (in fact, I feel more spiritual than when I was Christian) but away from theology and doctrine that I believe to be terribly flawed.

 

The suggestion that my "struggles" were correlated with leaving a Christian God-concept was infuriating and has impacted negatively my relationship with the friend. I wish she had not said - and I wish her thinking was not along those lines.

 

I've dealt with those kind of people - as a practicing christian I've dealt with them during 'trials' of my own.  (you know the kind, hanging in there by the neck until dead ;) ).   after all, if we'd been "better chrisitans" we wouldn't have had so many struggles.  tell that to Job. . . . .   granted this may make me petty - but I call them job's comforters.  I have come to realize they do this becasue their own faith is weak, and they think they can be immune from struggles.  um, no.  some of the finest people I know have had to overcome horrible experiences. (and wouldn't even think of saying something like that to someone. ever.)

 

I guess they missed this quote from Jesus, "in the world you shall have tribulation". I believe everyone gets challenges - may be short and intense, long and draining, early or late in life, public or very personal, but I believe challenges are part of the mortal condition and no one gets out with out something.

[Seeking Squirrels]

From the "grown child" side of things I don't think anything my parents did differently would have changed the outcome either way. Kids grow up and make their own choices. I was a strong Christian as a teen and early 20's. I didn't "turn" from Christianity until 32. I really don't think at that point it had anything whatsoever to do with my parents or how they raised me. It was a completely thought out and intentional choice for me.

 

Once a child becomes an adult, it's not really about you anymore. They grow into themselves and discover who they really are apart from the controlled environment of their childhood home. Sometimes it's what the parent envisioned for them and sometimes it's not. It goes both ways too. What if my girls grow up and become Christian? I could look back and wonder what I did wrong that they would believe so differently than me, or just recognize that they are their own person and it's not up to me what they believe.

[HS Mom in NC]

AZ HS mom, I know better than that. You have an opinion about, well, nearly everything. ;)

 

Not on books I've never read or heard of.

[Susan in TN]

I agree with the free will...but there is a promise in the bible. If we train them up with biblical principles, they will not depart from it. It may take a short or long time for them to come back to it but they may - according to this scripture and if you take it literally. As with anything, interpretation is key.

 

You have to be careful with this, however.  Proverbs are just that - wise sayings.  Even Biblical proverbs.  They are not etched-in-stone promises.  The Bible actually contains very few of these when you look at scripture as a whole.

 

[Lady Florida.]

 

Once a child becomes an adult, it's not really about you anymore. They grow into themselves and discover who they really are apart from the controlled environment of their childhood home. Sometimes it's what the parent envisioned for them and sometimes it's not. It goes both ways too. What if my girls grow up and become Christian? I could look back and wonder what I did wrong that they would believe so differently than me, or just recognize that they are their own person and it's not up to me what they believe.

 

I think a lot of people have trouble realizing the bolded is true. Every decision an adult makes/made isn't a result of upbringing. That doesn't mean upbringing has no effect, but simply that it's not the only thing that affects one's opinions, decisions, etc.

 

I would be very surprised if my son grew up to become a believer in any deity because I just can't see that in him, but if he does I wouldn't consider it an atheist parenting failure.

[ThisIsTheDay]

Might I suggest that describing someone who was raised Christian but decided not to pursue a Christian life is not, in fact, lost? I can say in my case, every step I took on the path to atheism from Christianity was in fact taken with extreme thoughtfulness.

 

I understand that it can be hurtful to see your children choose a path that is different from your own. But not being a church-goer or a believer does not make someone a bad person. 

 

My post was a direct response to the OP.  You have a different worldview, and you have a different definition of the word "lost." 

 

I did not say anything about any level of thought put into it, or make any determination of anyone being a "bad" person.  I'm sorry you somehow read that into my words.

 

You understand that a child choosing a different path "can be" hurtful.  But to someone of my faith, I see the potential for an **eternal** separation from Christ. I personally can't imagine anything more devastating.  Anything. Ever.  Ever.

 

Everyone here won't agree, but that's okay.  You and I are coming at it from completely opposite perspectives and beliefs, so of course we don't have to agree, and it's unlikely we ever would on this because of our very different base world views.

 

I hope that my written words come across here in the way they sound in my head.  I'm not trying to be contentious or argumentative. :)

 

 

[livetoread]

I can't think of anything my folks could have done differently to keep me believing. They are good people and we have a close relationship. My journey into unbelief had nothing to do with them. It breaks my heart to know they worry for me and wonder what they could have done differently. I wish they could come to some peace around it. It helps that we don't discuss it.

It's funny, I posted this and then went out to eat with my Dad. Guess what he brought up! Ugh. It used to be fun to argue theology with him when I was in my 20s and he was in his 40s. I was still a believer though more liberal than him and it was an intellectually stimulating activity. Now he's in his 70s and I'm not a believer anymore and nothing about it is fun. I see the pain in his eyes and I find myself feeling angry at a belief system that would cause him so much pain. I am a good daughter to them, I'm a pretty decent person, I have a strong marriage, I'm happy with my life, and yet my folks look at me and feel pain. It really stinks, but I know I can't make them stop believing what they believe (that I might not have eternal life) anymore than they can make me believe. I tried really hard to explain things gently, but I hate it. Ugh.

[Joanne]

I would certainly never tell my sister that and I know many would not agree with my statement. I think in the case of my sister, she seems to have shaken her fist at God in a public/vocal way and it's just an observation that the more she blames God for her struggles, the more struggle she encounters. She blamed mom for years, now she blames God for her life. I personally think if she would just stop focusing so much hatred on any one person/idea perhaps she could get life going in a more positive way. I found my own life goes better when in prayer daily and growing my faith not running from it.

I think I can agree to a large degree. The history of blaming others, including God, and staying stuck is an unhealthy life style.

 

I would even go as far as to say that moving on - including the forgiveness and resiliency needed - is a spiritual principal. And ancient , universal spiritual maturity index.

 

I recently realized this - again. I "submitted" and admitted that yes, the young man who was going 90 on a side street in October was wrong. And yes, a father should pay child support and not be thousands in arrears. BUT the power for peace and joy is mine. Focusing on them is like taking poison and expecting them to feel it. So, I sucked it up, did a quirky woo-woo forgiveness rituall. I decided in advance what I would think about when bitter thoughts imposed, and moved on. I feel better and I deserve that even if they don't".