Janie Grace Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 "Style" might not be the right word. I guess maybe "home decorating sense"? I don't know, but here's the deal. I have four sons. I need new plates and was just poking around online considering different options. I noticed some pretty plates with delicate butterflies and flowers and then I thought "no way" because it was hard to imagine my big, boisterous boys eating off those plates. Is that ridiculous? (I sort of think it might be.) I mean, none of them would complain about them (they are far too consumed with what is ON the plate, food-wise) and it's not the breakability factor. It's just that we're a really masculine household and somehow, delicate butterfly plates would seem out of place. Can you identify? Am I nuts? I have flowers on my living room rug, a stuffed chair, etc. I haven't hesitated to decorate with whatever patterns strike my fancy. But somehow (maybe because my boys are bigger and are setting the tone of our family more?) the plates seem different. What say you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I say... you're overthinking this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 I say... you're overthinking this. That's nice. If you don't find it an interesting question, you don't need to reply. Anyone else? For the record, I am in no way stressed about this topic, just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 hmmm. I have almost all boys..... and I have never bought new plates. If I was to buy new plates I would defiantly go for butterflies. I can never see myself buying new plates though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 That's nice. If you don't find it an interesting question, you don't need to reply. Anyone else? For the record, I am in no way stressed about this topic, just curious. ... You asked for opinions. That was mine. Good grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happymomofboys Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Yes, it affects my style as far as home decorating but mostly because if I decorated "my way" with delicate and lovely things, it would be destroyed. I need to be practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 hmmm. I have almost all boys..... and I have never bought new plates. If I was to buy new plates I would defiantly go for butterflies. I can never see myself buying new plates though You mean you still have plates that you were given when you got married? That's amazing. I have a few of those but most have bit the dust, sadly. We rented a house with a ceramic tile floor and granite counters. Never again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I have a houseful of boys and we have been been using " Butterfly Meadow" plates, cups, bowls, etc... for years...I like to think it civilizes them a bit but the reality is they probably never ever have noticed the plates or the butterflies. :lol: I am the only one who has broken a dish. :o So, decorate to your heart's content. :hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 You mean you still have plates that you were given when you got married? That's amazing. I have a few of those but most have bit the dust, sadly. We rented a house with a ceramic tile floor and granite counters. Never again! No. I mean that I don't buy new plates. I inherited some white plates from my great grandfather ( or rather my grandmother gave them to me as she didn't know what to do with all his stuff). and we occasionally buy some white bowls form the op shop as the bowls seem to be the thing that gets broken the most. We just don't have a matching set and don't see the value on spending $100s for a set of nice plates just to eat off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 The rule is: If you're the only one who cares about the plates then you get to pick the plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 No, but I'm not very girly. Ds loves the plates I picked out as a teen (still have them) - they have a geometric pattern. He'll inherit those. The pesky cat dictates my decorating more than the boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 No, not at all. My Dh is a man and we've always decorated together for the most part. So having 7 sons didn't make any difference. Flowers are pretty. Men appreciate beauty too. I guess if I went for pink unicorns and kitties there might be some problems. But then again, you'll not find me being okay with dogs playing poker above the fireplace either. I tend to go for practical and think form follows function, then notice the color and pattern. Some of that is personality, some of it is the number of children more than the number of boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 "Style" might not be the right word. I guess maybe "home decorating sense"? I don't know, but here's the deal. I have four sons. I need new plates and was just poking around online considering different options. I noticed some pretty plates with delicate butterflies and flowers and then I thought "no way" because it was hard to imagine my big, boisterous boys eating off those plates. Is that ridiculous? (I sort of think it might be.) I mean, none of them would complain about them (they are far too consumed with what is ON the plate, food-wise) and it's not the breakability factor. It's just that we're a really masculine household and somehow, delicate butterfly plates would seem out of place. Can you identify? Am I nuts? I have flowers on my living room rug, a stuffed chair, etc. I haven't hesitated to decorate with whatever patterns strike my fancy. But somehow (maybe because my boys are bigger and are setting the tone of our family more?) the plates seem different. What say you? I have only daughters. :-) But one of my closest friends has five--5-sons, and she's the girliest girl I know. She decorates for herself, not for her sons. And they learned to eat off the girlie plates (vintage Homer Laughlin china, to be exact), with girly napkins, and flowers on the table, and the whole schmeer. As with any young children, you might want to give them Tupperware for awhile, but *all* children, regardless of gender, need to learn good table manners, such that they can eat off Homer Laughlin china without their mothers fearing for their lives, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 The pesky cat dictates my decorating more than the boy. I have two boys and yes, the darn demented acrobatic cat is the reason my house has no fun floral arrangements or peacock feather swags, not the masculine majority. I agree with KK--buy what you like. Don't think too hard about it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Asked Dh and my teen boys and they were both, "All we see is the meat. Does it hold the meat? If so, we don't even care if their pink unicorns on the plate. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I'm not a delicate kind of girl, but if dh liked the plates and I really liked the plates, I would buy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I am also a little confused why 'you are over thinking this' does not qualify as an answer? As the mother of only boys, that is what came into my head when I read your post. It wasn't that I found your question uninteresting, it was that is what my answer is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReader Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I've thought the same thing, yes. I recently made place mats for us, and wanted them cute but not too girly. For that very reason --- I'm the only girl in the house full of boys, they would rebel if I did girly dishes/place mats, etc. LOL! Or, I think they would, whether they actually would or not. I've been plate shopping, recently, as we seriously need new, and I've had the exact thought --- "Oh, I love these! Would flowers & butterflies be too girly???" For my crew, color goes a long way. So, for ex, the cream plates I found with black scrolls & sort of abstract butterflies -- okay. The white with pink, rose, etc. -- not so much. Have fun shopping; it's proving a challenge, for me at least, to find plates I like and they don't roll their eyes at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happymomofboys Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I have only daughters. :-) But one of my closest friends has five--5-sons, and she's the girliest girl I know. She decorates for herself, not for her sons. And they learned to eat off the girlie plates (vintage Homer Laughlin china, to be exact), with girly napkins, and flowers on the table, and the whole schmeer. As with any young children, you might want to give them Tupperware for awhile, but *all* children, regardless of gender, need to learn good table manners, such that they can eat off Homer Laughlin china without their mothers fearing for their lives, lol. I'm not concerned about my children eating off of fine china. I'm more concerned about them breaking a plate as they clear the table. Children need to be taught, yes, but while they are learning they make mistakes. I can afford a mistake with generic plates from Target... not so with delicate china or crystal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Living in an all male household hasn't changed my style at all. But I've never been a girly girl. My decorating leans way more to the functional/minimalist style than feminine or flowery. I think I'm very lucky that I had boys. I probably would've seriously struggled if I'd had a girly girl daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 My style is pretty plain so no flowered plates here, but if I was buying new I'd buy what my husband and I liked. Which would mean I'd buy what I like, because he wouldn't care. ;) Right now we are using the cream-colored plates that my husband brought into our marriage 18 years ago. They were the plates and and his first wife used. As they break, we are buying something similar from IKEA to fill in. So I will probably have cream-colored plates the rest of my life. One girl, one boy here. The girl is far girlier than I, and her room is the most nicely decorated of all in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I do the decorating, so I do the choosing, and it's on the pretty side for sure. I love the china we use, but the boys would never have chosen it. Once one of my boys said he felt sorry for dad "living in that pink bedroom." I had to laugh at that! First of all, it has hardly any pink, and secondly, my husband has other things on his mind in the bedroom. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Not here - I would certainly say I have boisterous boys (and girls) and I worry more about quality of materials that appearance. After the untimely demise of my last cream and blue sandwich plate, I picked up a used brown set to replace them. Do they match? Nope. But they are a color I like and are fairly durable. No one but DD12 noticed we had new plates even though they all used them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 My boys used to eat off my vintage gold leaf china with flowers on the edges all the time until we bought some fiestaware. They still eat off those dishes on special occasions and will when they are older. My husband and I picked that china together. I am not a super girlie girl but I would say that having boys rather than girls hasn't altered my style. We did have a train table as a coffee table for quite some time and still would if it would fit but we gave it to friends who have a daughter. We keep flowers in the house a lot. There are glittery feather butterflies in lots of different colors in the window in honor of my mother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Count me in the "overthinking it" camp. I buy dinnerware that appeals to me functionally and aesthetically, not with any sort of thought as to whether a pattern may offend someone's gender sensibilities. I have Fiestaware in the tropical Skittles sort of color palette. The boys use cloth napkins that have flowers, cutwork, strawberries... My dad, on the other hand, has the flowered plates I grew up with. I think he picked them out. He's one of five boys and I'm pretty sure they had flowered plates growing up, too. Because my grandmother picked out dinnerware that appealed to her functionally and aesthetically. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 That's nice. If you don't find it an interesting question, you don't need to reply. Anyone else? For the record, I am in no way stressed about this topic, just curious. KK has 3 boys and a great sense of style, and she was kind enough to reply in a helpful way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostSurprise Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I don't think its a weird question. Yes, having all boys does affect what I choose to buy. I have mixed plates (some girly, some not). When I bought a shower curtain I did not pick my first choice (flower pattern) but my second choice (bamboo) because it seemed to fit our style as a family better. We have dark blue carpeting, not sage green. :laugh: When the boys are gone I'll decorate for us as a couple, not as a family. More of my taste will shine through then. Decorating is a reflection of us, not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 ... You asked for opinions. That was mine. Good grief. I'm sorry, KK. I interpreted your answer as "this is a stupid topic" instead of "don't worry about it, I sure don't -- buy what you like." I felt like you were dismissing me rather than weighing in with your perspective. Should have asked you to clarify instead of jumping to that conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I'm not concerned about my children eating off of fine china. I'm more concerned about them breaking a plate as they clear the table. Children need to be taught, yes, but while they are learning they make mistakes. I can afford a mistake with generic plates from Target... not so with delicate china or crystal. The question was about boys and style. That's what I answered. :-) I also included the necessity of using Tupperware with younger children. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuzu822 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 To the original question, I agree that you should choose what you like and will wear with your overall sense of style. For me, we have all white, and add color in other places. The question was about boys and style. That's what I answered. :-) I also included the necessity of using Tupperware with younger children. :-)I have never found that necessary. I have four sons. The oldest is seven. We have never used anything but with "real" dinnerware with them. As soon as they start eating at the table we use glass and porcelain. No sippy cups. No plastic. I'm a Montessori believer in that regard. :-) I can count breaks on one hand, and the majority have been from careless adults! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I have only boys and my extended family have more males than females. We grew up with undecorated gender neutral everything which I am happy with since neither my mum or I like girly stuff and I hate pink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 "Style" might not be the right word. I guess maybe "home decorating sense"? I don't know, but here's the deal. I have four sons. I need new plates and was just poking around online considering different options. I noticed some pretty plates with delicate butterflies and flowers and then I thought "no way" because it was hard to imagine my big, boisterous boys eating off those plates. Is that ridiculous? (I sort of think it might be.) I mean, none of them would complain about them (they are far too consumed with what is ON the plate, food-wise) and it's not the breakability factor. It's just that we're a really masculine household and somehow, delicate butterfly plates would seem out of place. Can you identify? Am I nuts? I have flowers on my living room rug, a stuffed chair, etc. I haven't hesitated to decorate with whatever patterns strike my fancy. But somehow (maybe because my boys are bigger and are setting the tone of our family more?) the plates seem different. What say you? Will your boys be taking the plates when they move out and go to college? Will the plates be family heirlooms? Will you require them to wear a matching tutu and butterfly wings? Will you insist that they change their room décor to match the dinning set? If not I think they will be fine as long as you put food on the plates. FWIW I bought my current china set at a garage sale. I do not even know the pattern. DS only cares about the food. Actually, I do not think he would notice if I put the pot in front of him with a fork in it. Though it might save time on dishes. Hmm maybe I will do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I probably would not choose a really feminine china. I always use white china, though. I have a blue and white wedding china, and inherited tons of plain white china. I do like the white. It goes with everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emcap Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I prefer white china, however if I wanted girly and dh was okay with it I would def go for it. I need some girly stuff around me, I feel like I've earned it after playing with boy toys, answering boy questions, smelling boy smells, solving boy problems, etc. all day. Long live the girly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Our living room is now set up with computers, musical instruments and video equipment! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Well, I have never been a girlie girl and my house was never decorated with flowers, butterflies, or pink anyway. I would say having boys fit my style, not the other way around. I grew up in East Africa, home of the African animals. My home is heavily influenced by African art and African carvings. I have a table made of iron giraffes and thorn trees. It is my favorite piece of furniture. And as for dishes......I don't even want China. I have Corelle......again, fits my style......wash and go and if it breaks, oh well...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyThreeSons Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I have three sons, but only one is left at home, along with my dh. I have never been a frou-frou kind of woman. My dh is the one who will bring in flowers from the garden to pretty-up the house. I'd never think of it. If I were to get new plates, they would NOT be flowery or have butterflies, but that wouldn't be because I was thinking of my guys. It would just fit my own style. (Edited to add that NOT. I should have been in bed, not posting, LOL.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Asked Dh and my teen boys and they were both, "All we see is the meat. Does it hold the meat? If so, we don't even care if their pink unicorns on the plate. " I have served many a meal on my grandmother's King's Crown/Ruby Thumbprint glassware (my inheritence) by candlelight with clothnapkins and fresh flowers, napkin rings, the works. And always THIS! They simply do not care what the food is served on - could be cardboard from amazon.com, makes no difference - just so the food.is.there. You can serve pizza to a male on anything. Literally...you could go outside, take blades of grass, weave them together, and bring them inside with the ants still crawling on them, and if you put pizza on these grass mats, the children will sing your praises. I could probably serve ice cream in bark boats. Males just care about the food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 My home is very feminine. I never gave much thought to the boys being boys. They can eat off of flowery plates just fine. I have a variety of dishes, some blue, some green fish, some pink flowers and many different colors of bowls. No one has ever expressed ...anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 As I get older, I realize that I can't please everyone. I have a husband, a son, and a male dog... So for me, I need some feminine stuff around... And it's JUST for me, but that's okay. I'm not a super frilly decorator, but I do like softer touches. As was pointed out earlier, whoever cares the most (and I would add, whoever does the purchasing of household goods) gets to make the decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom in High Heels Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I have served many a meal on my grandmother's King's Crown/Ruby Thumbprint glassware (my inheritence) by candlelight with clothnapkins and fresh flowers, napkin rings, the works. And always THIS! They simply do not care what the food is served on - could be cardboard from amazon.com, makes no difference - just so the food.is.there. You can serve pizza to a male on anything. Literally...you could go outside, take blades of grass, weave them together, and bring them inside with the ants still crawling on them, and if you put pizza on these grass mats, the children will sing your praises. I could probably serve ice cream in bark boats. Males just care about the food. WIN! I'm the only female in a house of boys (including the dog) and honestly, they'll eat off whatever I put the food on. We eat off of vintage transfer ware plates that I've collected from various flea markets around Europe. I have a mix of patterns, all with some sort of scene (I do have pieces that match, but I like the different patterns), in red, blue, brown and green (made by Villeroy & Boch, Myott, Spode, etc). Fortunately, James Bond and Indy both like them quite a lot, even if they're not 'masculine.' What would a masculine plate look like, I wonder? I don't really let their 'masculinity' affect the way I decorate. I'm a girly girl, but that doesn't mean I'm surrounded by unicorns, butterflies and rainbows. I actually like fairly neutral stuff, so I can change up the look with accessories when the urge (or season) strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfknitter.# Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 "Style" might not be the right word. I guess maybe "home decorating sense"? I don't know, but here's the deal. I have four sons. I need new plates and was just poking around online considering different options. I noticed some pretty plates with delicate butterflies and flowers and then I thought "no way" because it was hard to imagine my big, boisterous boys eating off those plates. Is that ridiculous? (I sort of think it might be.) I mean, none of them would complain about them (they are far too consumed with what is ON the plate, food-wise) and it's not the breakability factor. It's just that we're a really masculine household and somehow, delicate butterfly plates would seem out of place. Can you identify? Am I nuts? I have flowers on my living room rug, a stuffed chair, etc. I haven't hesitated to decorate with whatever patterns strike my fancy. But somehow (maybe because my boys are bigger and are setting the tone of our family more?) the plates seem different. What say you? At that point (the bolded), I felt you answered your own question. They won't care and they won't notice. Masculine household or not, they certainly won't catch "teh gay" from having butterfly dinner plates around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 It wouldn't occur to me. I'm about to buy bowls with fish on them. Should I not do that because my boys have no interest in fishing or because I don't want to encourage them to be trawlermen? L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfknitter.# Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Til now, I only knew of fishmongers. Thank you for the lesson! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Count me in the "overthinking it" camp. I buy dinnerware that appeals to me functionally and aesthetically, not with any sort of thought as to whether a pattern may offend someone's gender sensibilities. I have Fiestaware in the tropical Skittles sort of color palette. The boys use cloth napkins that have flowers, cutwork, strawberries... My dad, on the other hand, has the flowered plates I grew up with. I think he picked them out. He's one of five boys and I'm pretty sure they had flowered plates growing up, too. Because my grandmother picked out dinnerware that appealed to her functionally and aesthetically. ;) . Yup. My grandparents had floral plates and 5 boys. Those plates are still used for Christmas dinner and none of the men or boys have ever complained (or noticed, as far as I can tell). My mom hosts most large family events and her fancy plates are pretty feminine (blue flowers). My aunt has all boys and has never had another female living in her home. She has had up to 4 grown or near grown men in her home. She has the girliest plates I've ever seen. None of the men seem to care, lol, as long as there's food on the plate. I wouldn't buy those plates because its not MY style or DW's style, but the boys don't really get a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyThreeSons Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I think I was influenced by my Dad -- I don't like plates or bowls with any design in the center. Something simple around the edges is great, but I want a solid color (preferably white) in the area where the food goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 If it's a potential problem with boys, wouldn't it still be a potential problem if it were just you and your dh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Yes, it affects my style as far as home decorating but mostly because if I decorated "my way" with delicate and lovely things, it would be destroyed. I need to be practical. Yes this. But as far as the actual style.....nah, I do what I want well that is if I ever get to decorate again. We are still under construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I may not care that much about plates, but if I saw a set I liked I would choose it and not consider the gender of the people eating off it. However, I can't agree that 'males don't care about such things as long as there is food.' I can promise you that none of the three men in my house would eat pizza off buggy grass. It would more likely be me who picked the ants off. My FIL, a vet by trade, is an extraordinary decorator. That man can set a table like you wouldn't believe. Their house looks like it is straight out of a decorating magazine yet feels welcoming. It is classic and elegant everywhere you look. They have the $$ to do it right as well. He would notice the plates, but I would let him pick them out anyway. My younger son shows signs of following in his footsteps. He is quite visually oriented and likes to arrange things just so. If I am buying just about anything he always has an opinion on which one is 'better' and he has better taste than I do. I am tempted to take him with me next time I need to buy shoes for an event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.