Guilt trips from dc...very long (sorry)

[BakersDozen]

Just had a lovely (not) discussion with my oldest dd. Not a new topic, unfortunately, and once again no resolution or understanding came from our talk.

 

According to dd, she thinks it is horrible that our family does nothing for anyone. Of course, this "nothing" doesn't include the time dh spends helping tear down after Sunday service or the 6 years we have served at Awana every Sunday even when I had a 4-day old baby or newly- born twins. This "nothing" doesn't include spur of the moment babysitting for friends in need, either. What my dd is comparing us to is another family with a mom who drops everything in order to give someone a ride or serve in some other way. That's sweet, but what dd does not know is that the other family's home life is a disaster. Anger, chaos, confusion, etc. Academically, the dc are at least two years behind and what work they are doing is pathetically lacking. Why? Because the mom is so busy doing things either for herself (she lives for her yard) or for others that she does not have time to school her children.

 

Right now the mom is spending every waking moment sewing outfits for an upcoming dance performance. What sacrifice. What dedication. What a stupid thing because rather than just ordering costumes for a LOT cheaper like the other moms wanted to, she decided to take it upon herself to sew full outfits for the girls! So of course little if any schooling is being done at her house yet again as she is "sacrificing" her time for the dance performance. All I'm doing is carving out time to drive my dd to practice, wait for her to be done, and drive her home again. My measly 5 hours/week are nothing compared to what the other mom is doing...the mom with no babies/toddlers at home or ambition to have her dc do anything of academic importance.

 

I have asked my dd to stop comparing our family, and especially me, with other families/moms. I used to be the one who volunteered and was involved in everything, yet now I feel I have a healthy balance between home life, home school, and outside activities. We are completely on track with school, our home runs smoothly and efficiently, we have time for outside activities, and it's all good. My dd does not see it that way.

 

This issue came up tonight because dd wants to take most of Friday off to help prepare a huge Thanksgiving-style dinner for a fundraiser at church. She sold tickets to it and gets $9 out of every $10 she raised for an upcoming Bible Quiz meet. I told her I could get her there at noon and would pick her up at 3:30. Nope, that wasn't good enough; she wanted to be there from 10-3:30.

 

Here's the deal, though: She is in a Shakespeare workshop that meets for 21 hours/week. She is also in dance on Monday and Saturday for almost 5 hours. She wants to study her Quiz at night as the meet is coming up this Saturday. And she has her normal schoolwork which takes 6-7 hours/day, including a lengthy book report/essay response paper due end of April. The girl has no extra time to get Friday's work done during the week. So I compromised and said she could have 3.5 hours to help with the dinner on Friday but would have to make up the last 3 hours of her schoolwork on Sunday.

 

She went to bed in tears. I would like to do the same. Why in the heck do our dc not see what others see?? Does she honestly not realize what I/we do?

 

WWYD? Part of me wanted to tell her to just forget going at all on Friday, I'm so sick of her attitude that we never do anything, never have time for anything outside of academics. To make matters worse, many of the families we are friends with lead lives exactly like my dd would love to: part-time school, part-time work/volunteering, academics are something to fit in where convenient and are dropped in favor of any activity that presents itself as fun. In fact it is these friends who will be at the church preparing the dinner the entire day/evening, foregoing school in order to serve. I pointed out to my dd that there are other dc who will only be able to attend from 3:30-7 (kids who are in public/private school) and asked her why it was OK that they gave 3.5 hours yet not OK for her to do the same?

 

I'm sorry...this got really long. I feel defeated and at a loss as to what to do. I feel defensive and am taking this personally. I'm always willing to drive my dd to things, to rearrange my schedule as much as possible, yet it's never enough. I'm so done being the bad, selfish mom in her eyes. :(

[kiwik]

Don't suppose she wants to be a doctor or something? If so you could point out that studying now will enable her to contribute so much more in years to come. Otherwise my best idea is saying your job it to study when you are an adult you may give as much time as you like but not now.

 

Good luck.

[klmama]

Does she know how much time you spend driving her places and waiting for her? When I felt overwhelmed and underappreciated recently, I added up my weekly driving time. Also, I added up my waiting time. My dc were appalled at how long it all took. My young driver commented that I must be exhausted from all that driving. All of them became more willing to pitch in around the house, because they realized that I couldn't very well do the work if I wasn't home. They do school work on weekends, if it's not done during the week. Some things they just don't get to do because their work isn't done. After missing one or two events, they try harder to fit it all in when they are free.

[Twigs]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[PachiSusan]

I have no advice to offer, but hugs! :grouphug:

[Seasider]

"I am willing to offer you an opportunity to work at church all day on Friday. Here are my conditions: complete and turn in to me all of Friday's work by 9:am Friday, [etc as you see fit]. Otherwise we will stick to the timeframe of noon to 3:30pm which I have already allotted for this school day."

 

I understand the draw to be with her friends and feel like an integral part of this fundraiser; she's benefitting significantly from it, financially. Surely she doesn't want anyone to think she's a slacker.

 

I also see it from your perspective and applaud your efforts to maintain high standards to accomplish academics; I have known many families who place service over studies and it is often to their students' detriment.

 

I think it's key to be forward thinking. What are her future goals? Will she likely pursue a highly academic field? Or a life that actually is service oriented? She needs to be able to understand how her choices now and the things she commits to now will help shape her to meet those goals. Getting academics firmly completed during these current years will allow her freedom for service later.

 

Maybe it's in your sig line (can't tell by my phone app) - how old is she? Her schedule sounds very full. If she is 16+ she is not far from making these decisions on her own. it is important for her to realize that a person can't do it "all" - there is always an opportunity cost. She needs to learn to identify those costs.

 

Don't let her guilt you, but do be willing to reconsider. That doesn't mean you will change your mind, but that you are willing to listen. I know I like to run a tight ship and at times my oldest dd (who has a very different personality from me!) thinks that I am unyielding. She needs to know that I am listening and willing to talk through things. When I don't lose my cool (challenging sometimes!), she at least lets me help her think through decisions and lets me explain why I make certain choices for my family.

 

Sorry this is rambling and choppy. I understand your frustration. Parenting teens is not for the faint of heart. Hugs!

[Remudamom]

When she states her opinion about how you never do anything I'd just unemotionally say "I understand you feel that way" and drop it. Then do what you have decided to do with your time.

[Lily_Grace]

I say this gently, because it was the best change ever for our household, but......stop giving her her opinion. Stop telling her why things are the way they are, stop justifying decisions, stop arguing. She is too old and you have better things to do. Change your thought. Start ASKING her to problem solve within guidelines:

 

"That is interesting. I would love to be able to do that. Right now, the balance of education, activities, etc. make that difficult, but if you could find another way I'd be grateful to listen."

"Hmmm....you have schoolwork on Friday. When do you propose to schedule a time to do it before Monday morning? Come up with a schedule for your weekend and we'll discuss this further."

 

 

Find time to talk about volunteering and helping for the sake of helping, and helping for the sake of credit. Have her volunteer her time secretly, without showing it off.

 

And when all else is exhausted, put your foot down. How you use your time is not to be justified or demanded upon. "Our family" is not "mom". There are many others, and call her on her bull. "So if I understand correctly, you're upset that I don't volunteer as much as Mrs. Smith. How I use my personal time is none of your business and I'm insulted you would think it is."

[speedmom4]

It sounds like your dd is trying to express her own desire to do more for people and projecting it onto you. Maybe it would satisfy her need if she was able to participate in the meal serving activity all day rather than just a few hours. Giving her some opportunities might make her feel better and keep her from criticizing you. I would try to get her to focus on what she wants to do and not on just complaining. If she feels that passionately about giving to others she might have to cut back on some of her extra curricular time.

 

Just a thought.

 

Elise in NC

[*********]

It sounds like your dd is trying to express her own desire to do more for people and projecting it onto you. Maybe it would satisfy her need if she was able to participate in the meal serving activity all day rather than just a few hours. Giving her some opportunities might make her feel better and keep her from criticizing you. I would try to get her to focus on what she wants to do and not on just complaining. If she feels that passionately about giving to others she might have to cut back on some of her extra curricular time.

 

Just a thought.

 

Elise in NC

 

Elise has a good idea, IMO.

 

OP, what are dd's future plans? If she's planning on college, then she needs to understand that dropping academics for *every* opportunity to serve isn't a good idea. School is her first job, THEN she can take on other things.

 

:grouphug: OP, it really does sound like she's guilt tripping you a bit, too. I hope you have time to cool off, and then time to discuss it all with her.

[Annie G]

Been there- raising teens is not for the faint of heart.

 

Sounds like she wants to do more volunteer work- ok, she can if she meets her other obligations. So if she has 6-7 hours of school work and you're willing to let her do 3 hours of it on Sunday, would she be willing to get up early Friday morning and get 3 hours of school in before 10? Or even do an hour a day extra every other day this week- if that isn't doable in her schedule, then perhaps it's time to evaluate just how full her days are. Sometimes it's revealed that there is a lot of downtime wasted OR it can show that we're actually overscheduling the kids.

 

Does she really have 30-35 hours of schoolwork AND 21 hours a week of Shakespeare workshop?

[Mom0012]

Does she know how much time you spend driving her places and waiting for her? When I felt overwhelmed and underappreciated recently, I added up my weekly driving time. Also, I added up my waiting time. My dc were appalled at how long it all took. My young driver commented that I must be exhausted from all that driving. All of them became more willing to pitch in around the house, because they realized that I couldn't very well do the work if I wasn't home. They do school work on weekends, if it's not done during the week. Some things they just don't get to do because their work isn't done. After missing one or two events, they try harder to fit it all in when they are free.

 

Sounds like she needs a reality check. I'd be tempted to add up all the time you spend driving her and waiting for her so that she can participate in her activities and tell her you're willing to give that up so you and she can devote that time others.

 

Honestly, I bet she'll understand and appreciate all you do for her in the future, though it may be awhile. I was not a very appreciative teen, but the older I get, the more I understand and appreciate everything my parents have done (and still do) for me. As hard as it is, try not to let her get to you.

[Chris in VA]

Agreeing with everyone--such good insights. Here are a couple more thoughts--kinda random

 

While I totally think she's guilt tripping you, once in a while, when I am feeling guilty unnecessarily, it's because there may be a tiny grain of truth to the accusation. Perhaps you really do value helping others, and would like to fit in all the academics and the service to others, but it just isn't quite possible?

 

If she is truly feeling a need for the family to help others more, then maybe you could present her with some service options she may not have thought about--like Habitat, or a food bank/shelter, or a day of service project, or a family mission trip.

 

Perhaps you could say something like, "I know it's been on your mind and it's becoming one of your values to be helpful to others. That's a lovely quality in you, and I've been really thinking about that. I am feeling defensive a little, because I'm not sure you realize just how much I am doing for others--YOU, honestly. YOU are my 'other'."

 

"Here are some ideas for things YOU can do this summer to help others. I think that's a remarkable character quality, to be kind and helpful to those in need, so I want to encourage you. I would be willing to...(insert whatever--)"

 

My thought is maybe she can use the school year for academics and the summer for more "other centered" things.

 

And totally agree, try not to let it get to you. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, and I'm sorry she doesn't express gratefulness very well yet.

[mumto2]

:grouphug: Personally I suspect she just wants to spend the whole day with her friends and is doing her best to force you to let her.

 

It sounds like you do quite a bit. Do not feel guilty!

 

Sorry no wise advice!

[4everHis]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

[BakersDozen]

Does she really have 30-35 hours of schoolwork AND 21 hours a week of Shakespeare workshop?

Her schoolwork takes her from 8-3 (with breaks, of course). Shakespeare workshop is from 4-7 T-F; 10-3 Sat. Plus practice time outside of the workshop. She also is studying her Quiz as she wants to make it to the Finals team so that is another hour or so at night. So far she has balanced things well (with input/direction from me), yet she knows full well she cannot fit in a full day of school into her already packed week. I told her if she went to help prepare the dinner at noon that she would only have about 3 hours left of school which could be finished on Sunday (which I detest as I don't want school done on Sunday, but this was an exception). I am willing to work with her and compromise. I'm willing to leave the house in the middle of my day and drop her off (30 minute drive) and pick her up because I know this is important to her. She honestly wants to contribute her time as she is benefiting financially from this dinner and is unable to be there for the dinner itself (due to the workshop). Yet it just wasn't enough for her to go at noon...it's never enough.

 

Her plans are not highly academic as far as the future. Her dream is to operate a rescue ranch so yes, she is service-oriented. However, I am stressing to her the importance of continuing her education and that it is a high priority at this stage of her life. Finding a balance is something I am striving to do with her, so her comparison of me/our family to a family that is as unbalanced as can be really affects me.

 

"I know it's been on your mind and it's becoming one of your values to be helpful to others. That's a lovely quality in you, and I've been really thinking about that. I am feeling defensive a little, because I'm not sure you realize just how much I am doing for others--YOU, honestly. YOU are my 'other'."

I love this.

 

Thank you all for your advice. That you would read my long post and respond means a lot.

[In The Great White North]

I would suspect this

 

:grouphug: Personally I suspect she just wants to spend the whole day with her friends and is doing her best to force you to let her.

 

or these friends are "guilting" her to spend more time there.

 

To make matters worse, many of the families we are friends with lead lives exactly like my dd would love to: part-time school, part-time work/volunteering, academics are something to fit in where convenient and are dropped in favor of any activity that presents itself as fun. In fact it is these friends who will be at the church preparing the dinner the entire day/evening, foregoing school in order to serve. I pointed out to my dd that there are other dc who will only be able to attend from 3:30-7 (kids who are in public/private school) and asked her why it was OK that they gave 3.5 hours yet not OK for her to do the same?

 

In either case, the "friends" don't have the same values as you do ( peers over family, volunteering over academics, service you get "credit" for over service you don't, etc) and they are winning. It may be time to show dd how they are manipulating her and it may be time for new friends.

[Seasider]

Okay, woman! Now on my laptop I can see your sig line and I have to say.... Good! Night!

 

You are one busy lady!

 

I think you are doing a wonderful job in paying attention to what's important. If you added up all the time you spend serving family members - "others," to you, I think your day must exceed 24 hours! How many of your other children require this amount of transport time? I think you have a great case by just doing the math with her in addition to hearing this terrific statement suggested by another poster:

 

"I know it's been on your mind and it's becoming one of your values to be helpful to others. That's a lovely quality in you, and I've been really thinking about that. I am feeling defensive a little, because I'm not sure you realize just how much I am doing for others--YOU, honestly. YOU are my 'other'."

[Tammyla]

:grouphug: Aww, that's a tough one. My mom would have said something along the lines of...Well girl, that's your opinion and I'm sure one day you'll look back and think...why did I ever think or say that. So many teens just have no big picture experience and often don't understand just how good they have it.

[Seasider]

One more thing (sorry I keep just dropping little posts in here). When my oldest, responsible, highly motivated student hit 16, he was SOOOOOO ready to get out there and live his own life! I think this is common for this age - transitioning from teen to adult.

 

It's like the 9th month of pregnancy. That baby is near ready to be delivered, mom is REALLY ready for that baby to be delivered, but everyone knows, deep down, that you both need just a little....more....time..... There's a tension there, kwim?

 

At 18 mine is now really very much his own decision maker. Your oldest will be there before you know it. I am just learning the ropes of being a good mother to an adult child. It is not unlike being a first time mother all over again.

 

Okay, now I'm really just rambling. You are doing a great job!

[AK_Mom4]

:grouphug:

 

Teens are a definite challenge. Toss her guilt-trips aside - they are exactly that - trips designed to get you to feel bad and change your mind. Teens are good at that sort of thing - many years of practice, I think.

 

I think the technique of throwing the challenge back to her is a good one. "OK - here is what you need to have done for school work this week. Tell me your plan for getting it done so that you have more time free on Friday, given your other committments." She could get up an hour earlier each day to do extra, skip workshop one night, give up some other activity this week - there are always options. When she figures out the plan and implements it, she has learned some important lessons.

[happi duck]

I can understand your daughter wanting to serve since she is benefitting esp. since she's service oriented.

 

At our public school, service hours are required so we build that into our curriculum. Maybe she could plan something as part of her schooling.

 

She shouldn't be comparing/criticizing/guilting you but perhaps when the dust clears and that part is dealt with...

If her strength was math would you limit her extra math work? It sounds like her strength is service and her plan is to work in a helping profession...this might be a strength you need to give more time to for her.

[I.Dup.]

Oh man. I am mad FOR you!

 

I feel your pain because one of my biggest fears is being lectured by my children in all the ways I failed. I am realizing for me it is more a pride issue than anything else. I try so hard and want so badly to do the right thing and to please them and to do everything "perfectly" that the thought of them being unhappy with me is almost unbearable. It's kindof pathetic.

 

I'm learning that I can only do so much, and they most likely will see my failures in certain areas. I'm not perfect and that's okay. :) I am already bracing myself for the criticisms that may come someday, and it's already so painful in the small ways they already come up in my snarky pre-teen.

 

The truth is, you have ELEVEN children. E.L.E.V.E.N. Your daughter just has no clue. I am "only" pregnant with my 7th and seriously, the drain that these kids have on my sanity and physical and mental health is unreal. It's a good and holy work, being a mom to many. It's certainly worthwhile. But it is freaking hard. I am letting more and more things slide, just out of necessity of survival. Will my kids get on their high horse like your dd is and criticize me for certain things? Most likely.

 

I don't know how you do all of the running around and the schooling you do with 11 kids and so many little ones. How DO you do it? lol...sorry, off topic.

 

Anyway, just try to have the confidence in yourself and focus on your relationship with God as that's really the only one that matters. When your kids criticize you, try to have the attitude of "well, sorry you feel that way. When you are a grown adult you get to live life any way you choose and do things differently than I have done. But this is my life and it's really none of your business how I do things. Sorry you're unhappy. Hopefully some day you will be more understanding of my side of things. "

[Hen]

yeah, I think she is is very much guilt-tripping you and trying to shame you in a pharisee sort of way, which is, in my experience a typical phase for teens to go through...a judgemental stage. I hope you don't spend too much time letting it get you down, she is being very wise in her own eyes and she will grow out of it.

 

I would maybe approach it from the perspective of finding out how important this service opportunity is to her, and then let her sacrifice time from her extracurricular activities to "pay" for it. School time is not on the table, that is not how your family values roll (and I agree with you) so I would challenge her to then give up time at her dance or other club or another fun thing to pay for the time at this service project. She can then reach down and see how committed she is, if it is really that important for her to be there that long. It becomes a problem solving moment for her to make it work, and she needs to make it work without adding more to your plate.

 

hugs mama, I know how it hurts when our kids measure us and seem to find us coming up short, after all we do for them.

{{hugs}}

 

and I do think it will all come out in the wash, a few years from now when she is in college, close to getting a degree and she sees the fruit of hard work, dedication and schedule/planning/priorities.

[LucyStoner]

Charity starts at home. This is a very hard lesson for service oriented types to learn but it is a very valuable one to learn.

[2boysmom]

What I would say to my dd (if I had yours)?

"I'm so glad honey you love people so much and want to serve. You go girl!" We must have raised you right!

"In the meantime, please don't judge me till you raise 11+ children."

[Haiku]

I'm normally pretty unforgiving of whiny teens, but it sounds to me like your daughter is over-scheduled and in a rut. My dd felt the same way when she was running track--she wanted to do it but it took all her free time and left her with no opportunities for anything but school and track. Eventually she burned out.

 

Were it me I would not make this my hill to die on. I'd let her spend the whole day at the fundraiser and work out after the fact how to catch up on schoolwork. I think this is a situation where your flexibility will show your daughter you love her and care about what's important to her. I don't think she's guilt-tripping you. I think she's clumsily expressing frustration about her own life.

 

My dd is 18 and graduating from high school. I don't regret the times I bit my tongue and let her do what was important to her even if it wasn't my priority.

 

Tara

[elfgivas]

this may be two separate issues, worth dealing with separately.

 

one thing you might try is teaching her to "fight fair".

fighting fair means using "I" statements, not "you" statements.

fighting fair means staying on the current issue, not bringing up past issues.

fighting fair means not saying "always" or "never".

fighting fair means not using inflammatory language.

etc. etc. ie. its okay for her to be upset about something. its not okay for her to trash you/your family in the process.

one technique for fighting fair is for the person to journal first. they work until they can state the issue in neutral language.

eg. "mom told me i couldn't work in the morning to prepare the dinner".

then she would write down all the emotions that the situation triggered ( anger, embarrassment, helplessness, being controlled, etc, etc).

then she should write down why she thinks it happened. (remembering not to use inflammatory language, so "mom's an idiot" is right out ;). if any emotion words come up, she should add them to step two. then she should add in why she thinks she felt those things.

then she should, in one sentence, write out what she needs.

and then, write down what she is going to do next, in specific detail.

 

then she lets it sit for a few hours, and then goes over it again, adding and ammending.

then, she is ready to talk to you.

[elfgivas]

re the issue of you not offering service outside the home....

 

if it were me, and i'm thanking my lucky stars currently that it isn't, i'd be pretty frank about it with some of our dds, and more solution oriented with some of the others.

 

with the enfp's amongst us i would say something like: you're right. i don't have that much time to offer service outside the home right now. life is full of choices. your father and i have chosen to homeschool, and to have many children. that comes with some great benefits and great drawbacks. one of the things i have sacrificed is the time to do many outside activities because in this season of my life i am raising and educating children. i would love to be able to x, y, z. (serve food at the shelter, sew costumes, drive people). that would fill my soul with joy. but it would be tempered with the fact that i had put myself ahead of you and your siblings and your father. in a bizarre way, neglecting my obligations to all of you to offer service would be very selfish of me. can you see how that might be?

 

for the entj's/istj's amongst us, i would say something like, "you are so right. currently i do very little for anyone other than the 12 people i live with. this is how i feel God is calling me right now. but i would really love to serve outside the home more. in fact, i would love to serve dinner at the shelter on wednesday nights. this would take me three hours. in those three hours, usually i cook dinner, clean up, drive you to shakespeare/dance. if you would be willing to offer me service and drop your wednesday night activities so that i could do that, and you could do what i would be doing, that would be a gift to me. i haven't asked you to, because right now i feel it is my role to offer service and support to you and your sibs. but i may be wrong. would you like to try it that way next wednesday and see?

[elfgivas]

and re prep for the dinner:

 

it is a legal requirement for you to be schooled. we can do that at home, or we can do that in a school, but we have to do it. not doing it is not an option.

when i look at all your commitments, i can manage to find wiggle room for you to work in the afternoon. but i can't see where you would do what you would be doing in the morning.

why don't you spend a few minutes on a plan to make it all work with your school work being done, and then we'll talk.

with some of our kids, i could let that be a plan to do it in the future. with at least two of ours, it would have to be a plan to have finished it before the activity started, or it would huge effort to get it done later.

 

and if all else fails, my dh has been known to resort to, "because we are the parents. when you are a parent, you can let your kids do whatever they want, or whatever you want." which is met with much eye rolling. i tend to try to turn it into a teaching moment or three instead, but there are moments when "because i said so" simply has to be good enough.

 

:grouphug:

ann

[fairfarmhand]

and re prep for the dinner:

 

it is a legal requirement for you to be schooled. we can do that at home, or we can do that in a school, but we have to do it. not doing it is not an option.

when i look at all your commitments, i can manage to find wiggle room for you to work in the afternoon. but i can't see where you would do what you would be doing in the morning.

why don't you spend a few minutes on a plan to make it all work with your school work being done, and then we'll talk.

with some of our kids, i could let that be a plan to do it in the future. with at least two of ours, it would have to be a plan to have finished it before the activity started, or it would huge effort to get it done later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes, this.

 

WRT the comments where she compares your service to others, I might sit down and show her my schedule. And then ask, "Exactly when do you expect me to serve others? Hmmm....perhaps since service is such a passion of yours, I can cut out driving you to activities, during those hours I can find a service project and you can take over some of my responsibilities...how does dishes and laundry sound to you? Then I am serving others, you are serving your family and everyone is happy right?"

 

She is trying to manipulate you with those comments and she honestly has no clue about how hard you work in service to your family.

 

She needs to learn right away, Comparisons either lead to discontent or pride. Either way, that is not the kind of person she needs to be. She needs to learn that everyone has seasons to life. Some families can volunteer because of their amazing organizational skills and time management skills. Some families are just barely hanging on to get dinner done and clean underwear. Some families have time because they have easy compliant children, leaving the parents plenty of energy to give back. Other parents have challenging children. Some families have money or family to help with cleaning and childcare responsibilities. Other families are just barely scraping by. She needs a reminder that everyone is gifted in different ways and everyone gives back in different ways.

 

You know what? Even if you didn't help at church, I would be okay with that because you have your hands full with kids right now. In the future you will be able to do more.

[dangermom]

Hee hee, you should have her read Bleak House and do a character sketch of Mrs. Jellyby...

[fairfarmhand]

. To make matters worse, many of the families we are friends with lead lives exactly like my dd would love to: part-time school, part-time work/volunteering, academics are something to fit in where convenient and are dropped in favor of any activity that presents itself as fun. In fact it is these friends who will be at the church preparing the dinner the entire day/evening, foregoing school in order to serve.

 

 

see I come up against this too.

 

I've had to remind my 15 yo that academics are VERY important to us. We really NEED them to get scholarships for college, and we take them seriously. Part of our taking them seriously is that we don't drop them for very many things. She just sees me as being "mean."

[fairfarmhand]

. To make matters worse, many of the families we are friends with lead lives exactly like my dd would love to: part-time school, part-time work/volunteering, academics are something to fit in where convenient and are dropped in favor of any activity that presents itself as fun. In fact it is these friends who will be at the church preparing the dinner the entire day/evening, foregoing school in order to serve.

 

dp. somehow.

[AMJ]

A large part of it is the age she is, and the lack of real world experience she has. Though she will LOATHE hearing that.

 

A coworker of mine several years ago took an interesting stance with his kids as they became teens. He told them that he (the Dad) was happy to be "the bad guy". "I can't go with you to that event -- I have to be home by 11 on Friday nights. Trust me, angering Dad is NOT a good idea...." "Yeah, that would be a cool thing to do, but my Dad would KILL me if he ever found out. You have fun, and tell me about it later."

 

Basically, he gave his kids permission to moan and complain about their hard-a$$ dad as much as they wanted, and to use him as an excuse to get out of questionable stuff without seeming "uncool".

 

Perhaps your dd also needs a similar "out" when she is faced with peer-pressure.

 

I agree with the advice of the previous posters, and I hope you find some help there. She's going through that stage of maturity where she thinks she knows so much better, only sees what she is prepared to see, and has her head FULL of her life, her wishes, her worries. She'll grow out of it eventually, but it will be rough until she does. On that front I can offer you nothing of use beyond what has already been offered. So I offer hugs, and a listening ear. Come back to vent anytime you need.

 

:grouphug: :bigear:

[BakersDozen]

Update: Attempted a civil discussion with dd yesterday. It didn't work. She now says she never compared me to the other mom/family. This is why I always have at least one witness as I get sick of my dc forgetting what they said. Oh, yes, she did very much compare me/us to the other mom/family. She also continues on with her belief that since she is benefiting financially from this dinner that she should serve the full day. I asked her how much $ her friends raised - the friends who will be there all day - and the amount was somewhere around $400 (compared to her $100). My attempt to show her that she was giving a significant amount of time and that it was OK for her to not give as much as her friends who raised 4 times as much as she did was met with negativity and frustration.

 

This is important to her and for that reason I was willing to cut time out of my day to drive her there and pick her up. I was willing to let her make up the 3.5 hours or so of schoolwork even with her super full schedule (fwiw, she absolutely cannot miss the workshop or dance practice so that isn't an option). I wanted to help her in this yet what gets me is it is not enough!

 

It has been left with her saying that she is done discussing this with me. I told her that was fine and that when she has children she can make all the decisions she wants to for her own family.

 

If I had flat out denied my dd even an hour of serving I could understand her frustration. That I was meeting her halfway and making it possible for her to have 3.5 hours was, I thought, generous and acceptable. To have this thrown in my face along with how I/we do not serve others has me so.stinking.angry. I do everything I can to help/serve yet at the same time not neglect my family/home, yet again it is never enough in her eyes.

 

Oh, here's the really rich part: She keeps telling me I am taking this too personally. Yes, dear dd, I AM!! She has criticized my efforts to serve her, others, the rest of the family, and I am taking this VERY personally!

[teamturner]

My question is, why is the church planning something for the youth on a school day? Shouldn't they plan these events when students are free to help. You mentioned that the students who attend school have to come after school gets out. Why did they not plan this for a Saturday? Why are so many serving opportunities happening during school hours? I know you can't change this event, but if it were me, I'd be speaking to those "in charge" about scheduling these kinds of activities when school is not in session.

 

The other option is to suggest to your dd that she plan on schooling through the summer to make up for the lost school days and unfinished work. I wouldn't be keen on that myself as that means me as the teacher also has to do "summer school" which I try to avoid. However, I do have a homeschooling friend who does take school work seriously and they school year round so that they can do the "fun things" that come along and not worry about finishing by a certain time. Not my preference, but it is an option.

[fairfarmhand]

Update: Attempted a civil discussion with dd yesterday. It didn't work. She now says she never compared me to the other mom/family. This is why I always have at least one witness as I get sick of my dc forgetting what they said. Oh, yes, she did very much compare me/us to the other mom/family. She also continues on with her belief that since she is benefiting financially from this dinner that she should serve the full day. I asked her how much $ her friends raised - the friends who will be there all day - and the amount was somewhere around $400 (compared to her $100). My attempt to show her that she was giving a significant amount of time and that it was OK for her to not give as much as her friends who raised 4 times as much as she did was met with negativity and frustration.

 

This is important to her and for that reason I was willing to cut time out of my day to drive her there and pick her up. I was willing to let her make up the 3.5 hours or so of schoolwork even with her super full schedule (fwiw, she absolutely cannot miss the workshop or dance practice so that isn't an option). I wanted to help her in this yet what gets me is it is not enough!

 

It has been left with her saying that she is done discussing this with me. I told her that was fine and that when she has children she can make all the decisions she wants to for her own family.

 

If I had flat out denied my dd even an hour of serving I could understand her frustration. That I was meeting her halfway and making it possible for her to have 3.5 hours was, I thought, generous and acceptable. To have this thrown in my face along with how I/we do not serve others has me so.stinking.angry. I do everything I can to help/serve yet at the same time not neglect my family/home, yet again it is never enough in her eyes.

 

Oh, here's the really rich part: She keeps telling me I am taking this too personally. Yes, dear dd, I AM!! She has criticized my efforts to serve her, others, the rest of the family, and I am taking this VERY personally!

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

ugh, I understand completely how you feel. This sounds exactly like conversations that I have with my oldest daughter.

 

It is so tempting that the next time I am asked to drive someplace or do something for her to say, "Nope. I know that you believe that I am a selfish witch, so I am going to start living up to my reputation with you. I'll show you what a selfish person REALLY looks like."

 

Sometimes it feels that nothing that I do, short of making myself her personal slave and giving her her own way all the time, will make her happy.

 

It's so hard! I've tried to give my oldest lot of slack and some fun opportunities, because she IS the oldest of several kids, and I don't want her to feel that the youngers get most of mom and dad's time and attention, but no matter how much I give, it is not appreciated.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I totally get it.

[vonfirmath]

A coworker of mine several years ago took an interesting stance with his kids as they became teens. He told them that he (the Dad) was happy to be "the bad guy". "I can't go with you to that event -- I have to be home by 11 on Friday nights. Trust me, angering Dad is NOT a good idea...." "Yeah, that would be a cool thing to do, but my Dad would KILL me if he ever found out. You have fun, and tell me about it later."

 

Basically, he gave his kids permission to moan and complain about their hard-a$$ dad as much as they wanted, and to use him as an excuse to get out of questionable stuff without seeming "uncool".

 

My dad did that too! We could ALWAYS call him collect to come home if for any reason we were out and uncomfortable. We could always say no my parents won't let me for things even BEFORE asking him. Just let him know afterward what he "didn't let" so he could back us up!

 

I don't remember using it much but I loved knowing I could.

[Anne in CA]

Teens do not have fully developed brains, lol. They are not logical. Our job is to be logical, set a good example, hold them to our example as much as we can and let them learn on their own. My oldest was never happy with our family, complaining always about this or that. The younger two children learned from her to be more grateful. The good news is that your younger children are seeing her behave this way, and for at least some of them, they are learning a lesson deeply enough that they will not repeat her ingratitude. Hopefully that is a silver lining for your cloud.

[KungFuPanda]

I vote that you leave her home to watch the ten other children while YOU go do some nice, cushy 'service' job for the afternoon. I have a teenaged girl, though, so I'm evil like that. Sometimes they're very toddler-like in that you have to do what's best for them, tune out the fit, and not take it personally.

[Haiku]

I wanted to help her in this yet what gets me is it is not enough!

 

I'm willing to bet that it's not completely about this specific instance.

 

I wasn't there, of course, so feel free to dismiss what I say as uninformed, but it sounds to me like your discussion with her today was still focused on why she shouldn't do what she wants to do. Your attempts at logically pointing things out probably felt to her like a dismissal of what's important to her. It's pretty clear you guys see this issue differently. Perhaps you should just acknowledge to her that what she wants and what you feel you can give are out of sync and that you understand that's crummy. Also make sure not to make her feel like you are making this huge sacrifice for her by giving her 3.5 hours. That's clearly not what she wants, and trying to feel grateful for something that doesn't meet your expectations can be hard, especially at the age she's at.

 

Again, on this one, I would really do everything I could to accommodate her vision for this day. She's wanting to do something beneficial and helpful to others, not run around unsupervised and possibly up to no good. I'd encourage that, and for me, personally, for one day academics would take a back seat. I'm betting that if you let her do this, she will always remember it ... as she probably will if you don't. It's just a matter of what you want her to remember.

 

There were several things that were important to me that my mom and I couldn't agree on, and things went her way because she was the mom. I'm a mom now and I understand why it was that way, and I don't really hold a grudge ... but I do remember.

 

Tara