s/o Why is food such a big deal?

[Mom in High Heels]

 

 

My butcher sells non-organic local chicken without any added solution. It is the same price as the grocery stuff although he cannot match their loss leader sales. Have you noticed how some chicken breasts at the grocery are massive--Franken-chicken sized? Birds from my butcher (or the organic frozen ones that I buy from my co-op) are smaller. Is all chicken the same? It might be to some but I see, smell and taste a difference. Maybe it is my imagination...

 

 

 

I don't think so. I usually buy our chicken at a German store. The breasts are smaller, but they taste good. I had planned something on the menu one night that had chicken in it and I was out of chicken. I needed something else from the commissary (military grocery store), anyway, so I decided to just pick up some chicken there. The breasts were HUGE andttasted sooooo different. Even Indy noticed it. The chicken hadn't gone bad, it just tasted different and not in a good way.

[AimeeM]

I guess I was thinking that a lot of people buy their food at Walmart or even Target where everything is prepackaged.

 

The local groceries that have butchers still sell prepackaged chicken though.

 

Agreeing with you that there are some good changes afoot!!

Our local store (Publix) has prepackaged meat, but they also have a butcher. You can buy the prepackaged if you want, but you can just as easily look back, wave to the butcher, and have your meat cut for you. Costco here is the same - butcher always in the back willing to cut your meat to order, at no extra charge. Sure, they still sell prepackaged, but butchers are very available if people are willing to spend an extra 10 minutes waiting for their meat. People being in a rush is more an issue, here, than *what* is offered.

[Laura Corin]

I would say I spend about 5 hours a day dealing with food --from scratch. Making the almond milk, fermenting the dough, soaking the beans, planning the meals, sourcing the food, making it, cleaning up.

Who can do this?

The stay at home mom.

How many people does that leave out of the equation?

 

But there are ways of approaching healthy without going all the way to scratch, and we should not despair if we can't achieve perfection. I buy bread and baked goods, but we don't eat much of either. I sometimes buy processed foods (occasional sausages or breaded fish). Otherwise I cook all our meals from scratch. I go to a supermarket rather than a farmer's market, but we eat fresh food, not junk.

 

Breakfast takes me half an hour. Supper between half and three quarters of an hour. The weekly shop takes 1 1/2 hours. It's doable despite my having a spouse who is usually away on weekdays and my working a job outside the home.

 

Dans ses écrits, un sàge Italien

Dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien. (Voltaire)

 

In his writings, a wise Italian

Says that the best is the enemy of the good (my translation)

 

Laura

[suzybluecheese]

I guess I was thinking that a lot of people buy their food at Walmart or even Target where everything is prepackaged.

 

The local groceries that have butchers still sell prepackaged chicken though.

 

Agreeing with you that there are some good changes afoot!!

 

I cannot stand the chicken encased in plastic. What's with all that chicken "juice?"

[Jean in Newcastle]

I guess I was thinking that a lot of people buy their food at Walmart or even Target where everything is prepackaged.

 

The local groceries that have butchers still sell prepackaged chicken though.

 

Agreeing with you that there are some good changes afoot!!

 

A lot of the packaged meats at our grocery store are cut and packaged - in the butcher department in the back of the store. I see them packaging the meat and sending it through their little packaging machine. I can take any roast or bigger cut and ask the butcher to cut it for me. They will even marinade it for me for free with a selection of marinades. Obviously there are limits to what they can do because they've already cut meat down to certain sizes before I get there. If it is stuff that they were going to discard, suet or bones, I can often get it for free (but not always). Some local brands do not inject their chickens. Some local (and all nonlocal) do. I buy the natural meats if and when we can afford it but can't always afford the "cleaner" meats.

[Jennifer3141]

But this is really a numbers game - the facts can be "spun" so many different ways. For example, I went directly to the Census of Agriculture Report. I can pick out information from that report that paints a different picture:

There are 300,000 more farms in the US than there were in 2004. That's a 4% increase.

There are nearly 276,000 more farms than during WWII.

Most of the growth in US farm numbers came from small operations,

The two largest groups of farms are residential/lifestyle farms (36%) and retirement farms (21%)

Large family farms and Very large family farms (9% of farms) produce more than 63% of the value of all agriculture products sold

Four categories of residential/lifestyle farms, retirement farms, large family farms and very large family farms make up 67% of all farms

 

Then from the article sourced in your statement:

Non-family farms make up only 2% of the farms in the US.

 

These differences in emphasis really drive home the importance of source documents and the ability to read and interpret data. Wow.

 

 

We are able to do this, too. We have two farms nearby that have produce stands.

 

 

That's a famer's market increase and although it's fabulous, those farms still are not producing enough to support a family. 87% of farmer's market farmers also work a second job.

 

And less than 25% of family farms have income that exceeds $50,000 a year. By the way, on average, it costs $47,000 a year to OPERATE that farm.

 

There has been an explosion in some places in niche farms. I buy my milk from one. But the failure rate for start up niche farms is staggering.

 

And then you have this problem: The following is from the EPA website....

By 1997, a mere 46,000 of the two million farms in this country accounted for 50% of sales of agricultural products (USDA, 1997 Census of Agriculture data). That number was down from almost 62,000 in 1992.

 

So farming is, "up" but fewer and fewer farmers are doing it. We are losing diversity in farming by leaps and bounds. How has that worked out for you in banking??? Walmart? Do you prefer Walmart to a smaller store that actually paid people a living wage and didn't treat its customers like cattle??

 

Most people know and accept that your average farmer cannot support himself on his farm alone. 100 years ago, that simply wasn't true. A man could make a decent living with 40 acres. He could send his kids to school. His wife had food - she had to preserve a great deal of it herself for the winters but he was working hard too so it balanced out a bit.

 

If you take away all the BS of life that we all have to deal with - you need shelter and FOOD. Funny how many people don't have a problem with the banking systems making billions off your homes but it's totally ok with some of you that the people who grow your food should either be literally worked to death with multiple jobs or forced to live in poverty themselves.

[nmoira]

Breakfast takes me half an hour. Supper between half and three quarters of an hour. The weekly shop takes 1 1/2 hours. It's doable despite my having a spouse who is usually away on weekdays and my working a job outside the home.

 

Dans ses écrits, un sàge Italien

Dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien. (Voltaire)

 

In his writings, a wise Italian

Says that the best is the enemy of the good (my translation)

Yup.

 

A hot breakfast takes me half an hour (including emptying the dishwasher), plus 5-10 minutes clean-up. Five minutes to pack DH a lunch. Our lunch is usually a simple plate, maybe a sandwich or leftovers (aside from entrees, I make big batches of roasted veggies and double most dinner salads), a bit of cheese, some fruit, olives whatever we have around. If I'm ambitious I'll roast a sweet potato in my infrared toaster over (*love* that thing). Dinner rarely takes more than an hour, plus a 20 minute clean-up and once-over the whole kitchen; and it would be less if I took a prep day so everything was ready to go dinner night.

 

Almost no packaged foods other than w/w pasta and bread (Dave's Killer Bread... to die for). Anything else is either fresh/raw or minimally processed, like tinned tomatoes. I'm about half and half with canned and home cooked beans, but am getting better at fitting in soaking/cooking while I'm at home doing other things. It's developing the habit more than anything.

 

So most days, I spend less than two hours per day, including clean-up. Often I'll do something special on the Sunday, but only because I enjoy cooking.

[Joanne]

[/size]

Yup.

 

A hot breakfast takes me half an hour (including emptying the dishwasher), plus 5-10 minutes clean-up. Five minutes to pack DH a lunch. Our lunch is usually a simple plate, maybe a sandwich or leftovers (aside from entrees, I make big batches of roasted veggies and double most dinner salads), a bit of cheese, some fruit, olives whatever we have around. If I'm ambitious I'll roast a sweet potato in my infrared toaster over (*love* that thing). Dinner rarely takes more than an hour, plus a 20 minute clean-up and once-over the whole kitchen; and it would be less if I took a prep day so everything was ready to go dinner night.

 

Almost no packaged foods other than w/w pasta and bread (Dave's Killer Bread... to die for). Anything else is either fresh/raw or minimally processed, like tinned tomatoes. I'm about half and half with canned and home cooked beans, but am getting better at fitting in soaking/cooking while I'm at home doing other things. It's developing the habit more than anything.

 

So most days, I spend less than two hours per day, including clean-up. Often I'll do something special on the Sunday, but only because I enjoy cooking.

 

.

 

But the availability of those "less than 2 hours" is a luxury product of being able to do all other homemaking stuff during non cooking times.

 

Transcending this self select population, working moms often have to pack laundry, homework help, housekeeping, other quality time with family and some kind of self care into the hours not consumed by paid for work.

 

 

[Word Nerd]

 

... it's totally ok with some of you that the people who grow your food should either be literally worked to death with multiple jobs or forced to live in poverty themselves.

 

 

Who are you speaking to? Who believes any such thing?

[nmoira]

But the availability of those "less than 2 hours" is a luxury product of being able to do all other homemaking stuff during non cooking times.

 

Transcending this self select population, working moms often have to pack laundry, homework help, housekeeping, other quality time with family and some kind of self care into the hours not consumed by paid for work.

 

 

Yes, but part of that is by choice because I am home during some days. :) I could as easily pack four lunches as one, and serve a simpler hot breakfast or even a piece of toast and peanut butter with some fruit, or a self-serve breakfast. Steel-cut oats put in the rice cooker at night are ready the next morning without human intervention. One day for prep can make a huge difference in the daily routine; I don't take it because I don't need it. The kids could also be the ones doing clean-up and some prep. I don't think it's reasonable to say that food prep requires a SAHM and need take five hours a day as was suggested up-thread.

 

That said, you're the last person I'd lecture on time management. :) And yes I'm lucky in that I have a rice cooker and a good toaster oven, etc., and a day I could set aside to do pre-work if I chose. I also have the luxury of there being no immediate consequences if I go a bit over budget (something that hasn't always been the case).

[MamaBearTeacher]

I am reading The Omnivore's Dilemma which really addresses your question.

 

I think we have become more obsessed with food. Ah ... to raise a family in the naive days of the 1970s when the moms served Wonder Bread, bologna sandwiches and Kool Aid and did not think about it.

[LibraryLover]

Dans ses écrits, un sàge Italien

Dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien. (Voltaire)

 

In his writings, a wise Italian

Says that the best is the enemy of the good (my translation)

 

Laura

 

 

Exactly.

 

(Although I can whip up scrambled eggs or a couple of omelets in less than 30 minutes.)

[LibraryLover]

30% and 21% are hardly "the same obesity stats". I do agree that 21% is still not great, but ten percent is still a significant difference.

Australia does not have the same kind of problems with food availability in low income urban areas afaik.

 

 

That varies by region, just as it does here. Also, you folks still have about a million indigenous people living in remote areas, and they are typically not overweight, so that probably helps your stats. :)

 

Look, the Aussies I know are lovely people, so no dis on your country, but much of the whole world is getting fatter.

 

Not sure why the font keeps changing. Sorry.

[Jane in NC]

I am reading The Omnivore's Dilemma which really addresses your question.

 

I think we have become more obsessed with food. Ah ... to raise a family in the naive days of the 1970s when the moms served Wonder Bread, bologna sandwiches and Kool Aid and did not think about it.

 

As one who attended high school and college in the '70's, I feel compelled to comment on your tongue in cheek comment.

 

During the oil embargo of the '70's, my region of the country went into a deep recession. In part as a reaction to this and in part to the post-hippie crunchiness, a food co-op was born in my college neighborhood. It was hard to find whole grains and beans--all the stuff that Francis Moore Lappe was writing about. All of the college kids were reading Small is Beautiful and talking about the power of local economies.

 

Then the '80's came along and the policies of Ag Secretary Earl Butz from the previous decade became engrained.

 

My parents always went to farms and farmers markets. We may have had bologna but it was the ring kind from the butcher. Canning was a family activity My point is that I grew up with real food for the most part--even the stuff in the school cafeteria was made there by the lunch ladies. Maybe that is why I don't care for so much of the processed stuff. It tastes "off" to me--too salty, too sweet, too fake in its flavors. This despite begging my mother for Tang after Gemini astronauts took it into space. :eek:

[LibraryLover]

I am reading The Omnivore's Dilemma which really addresses your question.

 

I think we have become more obsessed with food. Ah ... to raise a family in the naive days of the 1970s when the moms served Wonder Bread, bologna sandwiches and Kool Aid and did not think about it.

 

 

I think this new 'obsession' is part of a revolution. Just as the Italian chefs started the Slow Food Movement that spread here and elsewhere, more Americans are talking about/care what real food is. We now see Earl Butz had it wrong back in the 70's. The healthier food movement started at least a generation back, but is now touching more and more of us.

 

Food Fight on Netflix gives a good background on this. King Korn has already been mentioned, and here's yet another plug.

 

Also, all of what Jennifer said about Monsatan is spot on.

 

I also agree with Joanne. We are fatter, no doubt, and the reasons vary, but I have seen people labeled obese who absolutely are not. The way we figure obesity needs to be overhauled, mostly so we better understand what we are truly facing.

[Jennifer3141]

.

 

But the availability of those "less than 2 hours" is a luxury product of being able to do all other homemaking stuff during non cooking times.

 

Transcending this self select population, working moms often have to pack laundry, homework help, housekeeping, other quality time with family and some kind of self care into the hours not consumed by paid for work.

 

 

Joanne, I agree with you to some extent.

 

I think there is a perception among *some* working moms that all they have time for is Stouffer's lasagna.

 

But simple cooking with just basic ingredients doesn't have to be awful or incredibly time consuming. A lot of people don't know that rolling a lemon and then squeezing it over baked chicken breasts can just make the meal come alive.

 

A lot of people think cooking means hour and hours and hours in the kitchen and/or that you need 400 spices and 700 pans.

 

So you can wait 1 hour for the Stouffer's lasagna to cook or you could spend 30 minutes actually cooking by steaming some veggies and baking a few chicken breasts. And while you're at it, bake a double batch and freeze some for the next entree.

 

But there's that pretty box of lasagna looks like it's going to taste so good and the reality is that after a really long day of work, that lasagna WILL slide down your gullet easily.

 

As more and more people went to frozen entrees/instant dinners, more and more people lost the techniques and knowledge to whip up a simple but delicious and healthy meal. You get stuck in a cycle. You end up at the grocery store when you're tired. You lost your creativity 3 hours ago and you don't have a foundation to know that, "Hey! A couple of lemons and some fresh sage and chicken breasts and VOILA! Dinner!"

 

I can spend the entire DAY preparing an Indian feast from scratch - lassi, homemade samosas, tamarind sauces, and on and on and the next day pop in a couple of chickens for roasting and get the exact same response from my family. But a lot of people are out there walking around not knowing how dang easy it is to actually roast a chicken. You look like a rock star for about 10 minutes of work.

[Karen in CO]

I think tonight's dinner at our house pretty summed up how we approach food. Ds isn't home, and we are having pancakes. My mom would have made pancakes by adding water or maybe milk to a mix, rubbing soy or canola oil on the griddle and topping them with that awful fake maple syrup stuff.

 

 

I made our pancakes using a package of whole grain mixed quick cook cereal, wheat, and organic white flour, a dash of wheat gluten, some real vanilla, local eggs, almond milk, and cinnamon. Then I cooked blueberries and bananas into them. We will top them with almond and/or peanut butter and some real maple syrup.

 

Sure they are both pancakes, and not the healthiest most balanced meal around, but one is basically nothing but processed crap and HFCS, and the other is FOOD!

 

I don't obsess over everything being perfect for us to eat, but I spend a lot of time planning, learning, cooking, shopping, and prepping for food.

 

 

Yikes - as a illustration of why I cook the way I do, this meal would kill my older dd, make my younger dd sick for weeks and cause 3 day allergic migraine for me. :)

I made pancakes this morning from a rice and tapioca flour, added cane syrup, molasses, ground flax, free-range eggs, rice milk and butter. Then served with a bowl of fresh strawberries.

 

One of my dd's is deadly allergic to tree nuts, the other is celiac with with dairy, soy and other allergies, and I'm allergic to wheat, tree nuts and cinnamon (along with a host of other allergies).

 

btw - I grew up in a town that contained a couple of large test farms for Monsato. I pretty much blame them for all of my allergies which started with a severe corn allergy when I was a kid.

[FaithManor]

Complicated entrees take time. I've had to abandon that for the most part in order to accomodate homeschooling three high schoolers, tutoring, working a few hours per week at the quilt store, managing as a 4-H leader, rocket team mom, etc. However, we haven't abandoned healthy eating. It just looks differently. I will throw chicken breasts in the crockpot with some veggies and herbs and walk away, beef and vegetable stew, or chilli...supper is done and one pot to clean. Breakfast is very often scrambled or boiled farm fresh, free range, fairly organic eggs, fresh fruit, and milk. Lunch is nearly always for those still eating bread, sandwich and large salad with whatever fresh fruit they want to grab, and mine is nearly always a large salad with lots of chopped veggies and topped with pintos and black beans...with the boys eating like wild boars, looting, pillaging, and decimating the evening meals, leftovers are a mystery, a mere myth that I am not sure exists in cold reality! When I have time, I make baked tilapia.

 

Faith

[Jennifer3141]

I think this new 'obsession' is part of a revolution. Just as the Italian chefs started the Slow Food Movement that spread here and elsewhere, more Americans are talking about/care what real food is. We now see Earl Butz had it wrong back in the 70's. The healthier food movement started almost a generation back, but is now touching more and more of us.

 

 

I think it is part of a revolution too but a slow and quiet one. 15 years ago, I left CAFO milk. I buy my milk from a local farmer that doesn't feed corn based feed. I was worried in the begnning that the dairy wouldn't make it but they have and now 40 miles south is another dairy trying the same thing. That milk is twice the cost of CAFO milk but it's worth it to us to support a small farmer and it's BETTER for us. No hormones. No anitbiotics. And we visit the farm a couple times a year to shake the family's hands and pat the cows on the noses.

 

The place where I buy the kids' bread is a local bakery that sells to our local grocery stores. The bread's ingredients are: organic flour, well water, yeast, and salt. The bakery ships flour across Lake Michigan from Wisconsin because there isn't a local organic wheat producer here yet but hopefully someone will step up to the plate eventually.

 

Most of our cheese is now locally raised and cultured here.

 

All our wine is. :)

 

Every tomato product in my house came from about 100 yards away. I had to spend 5 - 10 days preserving it but there you go.

 

Chickens come from an organic farmer 30 miles away. I stock up twice a year.

 

I have to have buffalo shipped. That stinks. But I won't buy from farmers who feed cattle/buffalo a corn based diet. So three times a year, I have to order buffalo and fly it here. I worry about the fuel consumption but I overrule that by the buffalos' health and happiness and after all, they are dying so that I can eat them.

 

It seems like a lot of work and research but once you do the work, you really don't think about it anymore. I don't think about milk. I just grab the glass bottle. I don't think about chicken. I know they are in the freezer. I send the kids to the basement for tomato sauce. So there was more work in the beginning but I think you can argue that it's a lot less work in the later stages. Milk is my biggest pain. The kids drink so much and we are always running out.

 

And when the paycheks are smaller than I'd like them to be, we do more beans which we should be doing all the time anyway.

[LibraryLover]

I can't seem to find the post where someone asked about 'chicken juice' in packaged chicken. I'm sure some of that is the 'pink stuff' that shouldn't be there, but we raise our own organic chickens, and there is always 'juice' when we package for freezing. It's partly water from rinsing, and partly normal chicken 'juice'.

 

We do not add anything to our chickens. They are on grass, supplemented with organic feed & organic kitchen scraps

[Jane in NC]

I can't seem to find the post where someone asked about 'chicken juice' in packaged chicken. I'm sure some of that is the 'pink stuff' that shouldn't be there, but we raise our own organic chickens, and there is always 'juice' when we package for freezing. It's partly water from rinsing, and partly normal chicken 'juice'.

 

We do not add anything to our chickens. They are on grass, supplemented with organic feed & organic kitchen scraps

 

Packaged grocery chicken (other then Smart Chicken in these parts) states x% solution added. I assume some of the juice is this saline soup. Same with turkeys--y% solution added. So part of the per pound price is the cost of this added liquid--which makes the price of local chicken, no solution added, from my butcher even more attractive.

[Joker]

I just checked my package of chicken breasts from Publix. There is a tiny amount of liquid and the package says "up to 1% water retained from chilling". Nothing about any solution and it states nothing is added. I've honestly never noticed a difference in the meats I buy from Publix vs. the free range or grass fed meats from local places.

[nmoira]

Here's an excerpt from Pandora's Lunchbox, posted on Salon last week, on artificial chicken flavor and why is added to chicken.

 

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/17/modern_chicken_has_no_flavor_lets_make_it_in_a_lab/

[Jane in NC]

I just checked my package of chicken breasts from Publix. There is a tiny amount of liquid and the package says "up to 1% water retained from chilling". Nothing about any solution and it states nothing is added. I've honestly never noticed a difference in the meats I buy from Publix vs. the free range or grass fed meats from local places.

 

 

Then you are fortunate.

 

Here is an article entitled "What are they Pumping into Your Chicken". Another on "enhanced" chicken is found here.

[Janie Grace]

I think and read about what to feed my family. I'm grateful for all that I've learned over the years. That research has led to certain choices, choices that fit our budget, priorities, location, family tastes, etc. (For us it means pasture-raised chicken, meat, eggs. Some organic produce, some not. An organic CSA once the growing season starts. Whole wheat vs. refined flour breads, but not homemade. Real, old-fashioned white sugar in the items I do occasionally bake as treats. My dh and I eat on the lower carb side; lots of fruit/nuts/cheese/veggies/eggs.)

 

There are several reasons I am personally *not* interested in most food talk. I'm not that interested in food prep; I fix food because my family needs to eat, but I am way more interested in literature, current events, sociology, history. So, for me, it's just not a fascinating topic. If women are discussing the best way to make yogurt, I listen politely but I'm really not engaged because it's not my "thing."

 

I am also turned off by the self-righteousness that so often seems to accompany this topic. Frankly, I consider attaching a character judgment to the very personal choice of what one eats to be shallow and small-minded. (I get being concerned about the diabetic downing M&Ms or the asthmatic kid who can't run. I'm more addressing the Mommy Wars over organic vs not, grinding wheat vs buying bread, how GMO-wary are you, raw vs not raw, etc.) I think there are a lot of ways to eat healthily and it makes me crazy when people act like their way is the only way. This narrow-mindedness is annoying enough to me to have exhausted my ongoing interest in the topic. Yes, I watched some of those films, read the Pollan books and others, etc. But I'm done. I guess you could say I'm like the mom of many who is over the CIO/co-sleep debate; I'm fine with where I've settled and I'm done with the discussion. I feel confident in where we've landed, and I have no desire to wade back in. I have too much else that I want or need to think about.

 

Here's another thing, OP. I think that for some people (SOME people, mind you), being "right" about the way they are feeding their families is an easy way to feel like good mothers. We all want to feel like good moms. But being a good mom is a pretty nebulous goal, and it's also really hard. It's appealing to have a category (like diet) that gives such immediate feedback. You can waste all day on the internet, be snippy with your kids, not take the time to get to know them in a really deep way... but if you're feeding them GMO-free, organic perfection, then hey. You must be an awesome mom. It kind of reminds me of some of the legalistic religious stuff. Just make sure your girls wear skirts, your boys open doors, your Bible is KJV, your movies are G-rated and bam -- good parenting. It's just a thought. It's not true of ALL families that eat organic (or raw or vegan or Paleo or whatever!) of course. And it's not true of all families with very strict moral convictions. But I will say I think it could be in play in some cases.

[SKL]

 

But do they? Some groceries still have butchers but many just sell prepackaged meats. The fine print on most packaged chicken from the grocery says it contains a five percent solution--but does not tell the consumer just what is in this solution!

 

My butcher sells non-organic local chicken without any added solution. It is the same price as the grocery stuff although he cannot match their loss leader sales. Have you noticed how some chicken breasts at the grocery are massive--Franken-chicken sized? Birds from my butcher (or the organic frozen ones that I buy from my co-op) are smaller. Is all chicken the same? It might be to some but I see, smell and taste a difference. Maybe it is my imagination...

 

In my first post on this thread, I noted that I spend more time and energy on food than most. In part this is because of how I shop. I buy chicken from my butcher or the co-op; grains, beans, dairy from the co-op; produce from one of four farms; fish from one of two fishmongers; specialty items from the Asian grocery I do not step foot into large, traditional grocery stores that often.

 

 

It probably depends on where you shop and how you pick and choose. Personally I do not buy meat as a grocery. Sometimes I have meat when we eat out, and my sister cooks for us with meat about once a week. Because meat is not a major part of our diet, I don't worry about it like some folks do. However, I will say that the meat section of my organic grocery store looks a lot different from the one in the chain stores. The chain stores do have a lot of different options, though. To each his own.

[SKL]

.

 

But the availability of those "less than 2 hours" is a luxury product of being able to do all other homemaking stuff during non cooking times.

 

Transcending this self select population, working moms often have to pack laundry, homework help, housekeeping, other quality time with family and some kind of self care into the hours not consumed by paid for work.

 

I'd be the last to disagree that working moms have a lot to squeeze into a little time. However, a little research and planning goes a long way. I rarely spend as much as an hour a day in total on my family's food. That includes breakfast (eggs, fresh fruit, yogurt), lunch (sandwiches, fresh fruit/veg, cheese etc.), snack (healthy-ish small treat for after-school) and dinner (sometimes well-chosen fast food, sometimes well-chosen semi-prepared grocery, sometimes leftovers from a traditional meal cooked by someone else). There are good options that are quick. It just takes a little up-front time to investigate the choices. We're not shooting for perfect, just reasonable, as we are a basically healthy and active family. What probably makes the most difference for us is what we *don't* buy.

 

There is so much focus on heavy people and how they got that way. Wouldn't it be more useful to focus on the one-third of our population that isn't overweight? How did that happen? I doubt they all eat super-healthy or exercise a lot.

 

Then there is the questionable definition of overweight / obesity. According to the popular measure, my 6yo is on the heavy side despite fitting comfortably in size 2 underwear.

[Janie Grace]

 

There is so much focus on heavy people and how they got that way. Wouldn't it be more useful to focus on the one-third of our population that isn't overweight? How did that happen? I doubt they all eat super-healthy or exercise a lot.

 

Then there is the questionable definition of overweight / obesity. According to the popular measure, my 6yo is on the heavy side despite fitting comfortably in size 2 underwear.

 

That would be an interesting study.

 

I'm confused by your last line. Size 2, like 2T? Or size 2 women's? Either one sounds pretty unusual.

[justamouse]

I certainly don't spend 5 hours a day making food, but we are a small family also. I try to prep all at once, so Im not chopping and stuff every night, I also make big batches of stuff I know we will eat on all week like various salads. I try to think ahead when cooking, so that last nights extra grilled veggies and the chicken I threw on with the steaks will become tomorrow nights fajitas.

 

I also worked in restaurants for years, so I work fast, and efficient and have good knife skills :coolgleamA:

 

Making my pancakes the way I did took maybe 10 minutes to look up a recipe, and an extra 10 minutes to pull everything out of my pantry and measure a few extra ingredients. But to be honest, I didn't really follow a recipe, I just cooked the oats lightly to soften them, added 2 eggs, and alternated splashes of flour and almond milk until I had enough and it was the right consistency. Stirred in 2 TSP of yeast, the vanilla and spices, and off I went while it sat in a warm place until I had some bubbling going on. I then found an over ripe banana and realized I had frozen blueberries.

 

 

It's not just that we're not a small family, it's that I make almost everything from scratch--even the crackers, and at this point I am unwilling to make it any differently. I used to, and it cost me my health. We always ate clean. Always. It was the way I was brought up, but that still didn't help me.

 

Last night I fermented the flours for the pancakes this morning, I have water kefir and milk kefir I am keeping up with, I keep sourdough, I make three loaves of bread at a time that have been properly fermented, you have to soak your almonds for almond milk, of which is getting made daily, now. I also counted in there purchasing the food and shopping. You should also soak your oats overnight with whey or a bit of vinegar so that they are more bioavailable. So, add all of that in, and you're at about 5 hours.

 

I used to throw it together like that, though.

 

I'm much more of a Nourishing Traditions cook now, in hopes that my kids won't face my food allergies, and I also like that the foods are more nutritious. But, like I said, I have this privilege.

[SKL]

 

That would be an interesting study.

 

I'm confused by your last line. Size 2, like 2T? Or size 2 women's? Either one sounds pretty unusual.

 

Size 2 as in the size I bought her when she was potty training at age 1.5. (These are Wal-Mart's Faded Glory brand - not oversized terry training pants.) She's a skinny thing but her BMI says she's heavy.

[justamouse]

Here's an excerpt from Pandora's Lunchbox, posted on Salon last week, on artificial chicken flavor and why is added to chicken.

 

http://www.salon.com...ke_it_in_a_lab/

 

They also had her interviewed on Democracy Now.

 

 

 

 

 

[Aelwydd]

Has anyone yet mentioned that health care consumes a whopping 17% of the US GDP? If you don't care that even the military is having problems finding enough healthy kids to stock their voluntary ranks, because you think it's judgmental to point out the obvious--that as a population, we are making poor nutritional and health-related choices--then I don't know anything said on this thread is going to make sense.

 

I don't care whether someone is "fat" or not. I care whether the food being marketed to him or her, and the nutritional advice being given out, and the lack of paid time to relax and build up his or her health is contributing to a shortened life span. I care that this may not just be an incidental case, but a trend. I care that this trend of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer may be what ends up killing any real future our grandchildren have, because they have inherited a profoundly sick society--in more ways than one.

 

Food is medicine. Food matters because it has the power to kill as well as heal. That's why it's such a Big Deal to me. I want my friends, family, coworkers, and my community to live healthy, productive lives. They can't do that if they are being fed--literally--a pack of lies about what is "natural" and "healthy" and what is harmful.

[stripe]

I think food in this country, while plentiful, has not been good quality and there developed a serious lack of understanding of basic cooking. My grandma, for example, was a 1950s housewife who loves canned goods and loves to cook with them. I think that era was what Julia Child was trying to educate in, that may seem a bit unremarkable now, but apparently fresh vegetables were rare then!

 

I am not sure food actually is that big of a deal to most people, but some people are trying to figure it out and, being confused and/or excited, want to talk about it a lot, and this is the type that is most audible. Sort of like breastfeeding.

 

I have been around people from other cultures, in the US and abroad. People talk about food and spend time on shopping and preparation. many women around the world spend hours a day grinding /cleaning/preparing grain, fetching water, and lighting fires, so it's quite the convenience to have running, potable water AND a gas/electric stove. There are lots of diabetics and health preferences, even among people living in poor countries, and worries about where food is going to come from. However, I think we don't hear enough about enjoyment of food in the US!

 

I guess I was thinking that a lot of people buy their food at Walmart or even Target where everything is prepackaged.

 

The local groceries that have butchers still sell prepackaged chicken though.

Do most people buy live or unplucked chicken? There are some ethnic /religious markets near me where fish or chicken can be bought live and slaughtered to order, but otherwise, even a whole chicken is often Tyson or other such brand. However, I have been to Japanese and other Asian markets in the US, where absolutely everything in produce is on a styrofoam tray, like zucchini, green beans, and so on.

[briansmama]

Yep, I definitely feel awareness is a good thing. Unfortunately, the FDA does not have our best interests and health in mind when regulating food products, so it's up to us as consumers to research.

 

GMOs are increasingly invading our food supply and could be extremely dangerous to our health.

Food additives are chemicals present in processed foods, especially cheap processed foods (and often made with petrol).

BPA causes cancer and a litany of other health problems, and is prevalent in our canned food supply, especially in infant formula and chicken soup.

Artificial sweeteners cause cancer and other health problems and are now being petitioned to make their way into our milk supply without any labeling or warning because the FDA still claims certain artificial sweeteners are safe.

Farmed salmon is seriously disgusting, but I've met well-educated, affluent mothers who honestly were shocked to learn that farmed salmon isn't healthy like wild salmon.

Fluoride is still being added to our water supply even though it is linked with thyroid cancer.

Casein and gluten sensitivities/allergies are often related to behavioral issues that many children are treated for with ADHD meds instead of removing the casein/gluten.

Pesticides cause cancer and show up in our children's blood levels after consuming conventional fruits and veggies.

Children are diagnosed with more cavities and treated with dental surgery at younger ages, which often is a result of the Standard American Diet.

 

So yeah, for the sake of my family's health, I tend to spend a lot of time researching our food. I have to- I can't blindly trust what the government tells me about the safety of our food. If Americans in general spend more time obsessing about food it may be because our FDA still claims the above is safe while many (BPA, GMOs, artificial additives, etc) are banned in other countries.

[justamouse]

(Please note that I am not a believer in the eat too much, move too little theory of obesity)

 

I believe that food is an obsession in America at least in part because political choices have created a food supply that has changed our intuitive/instinctual health seeking and created a metabolically resistant reaction. The push for and reliance on carbs has *created* a physiologically based food craving; we eat and eat and never feel full or nourished.

 

 

I think you just summed it up perfectly. That's the distillation of the thread.

 

Amen to this! I am a 4-H volunteer who is appalled that so many children cannot be involved in an activity for an hour or two without asking about snack.

 

 

 

OK, I'm not trying to make excuses, but I am wondering if this has anything to do with the fact that people eat at such different times now? I mean, I know it's ridiculous, the constant snacking, but if one family eats and 5 and the other eats at 7?

 

I'm just thinking that most parents are getting home when many activities start so it's throw the kid a snack till later when they get home at 8 pm and can have dinner?

[Melissa in Australia]

OK, Jane, I agree that we all pay. Increased insurance premiums, taxes, etc.. But we all pay for other things as well, why are people not obsessed with speeding? It causes the same results. Shoplifting costs everyone money as well. Is it because people who are overweight are more obvious? So do we place more importance on things that we can see than things that aren't as readily apparent?

 

 

 

There is no need to discuss speeding and shoplifting. Both of those things are regulated by laws and fines (for people that get caught). One of the big issues around at the moment is the alarming increase of people's weight worldwide, and the long term ramifications of that.

[TechWife]

I don't think so. I usually buy our chicken at a German store. The breasts are smaller, but they taste good. I had planned something on the menu one night that had chicken in it and I was out of chicken. I needed something else from the commissary (military grocery store), anyway, so I decided to just pick up some chicken there. The breasts were HUGE andttasted sooooo different. Even Indy noticed it. The chicken hadn't gone bad, it just tasted different and not in a good way.

 

 

During the summer when our town farmer's market is open we can buy fresh, hormone free chicken and it tastes much better than the stuff we buy at the grocery store! We have to buy whole chickens, but my dh has become quite proficient at cutting them up & we then have the backs, etc. for stock.

Another small farmer's market has grain fed beef & we've occasionally bought that - it was really good. We just don't eat a lot of beef, though so we don't buy it regularly.

[TravelingChris]

Well first of all, there is a huge difference between overweight and obese. In particular, while there are many legitimate studies that show that obesity, and specifically morbid obesity, does contribute to more health issues, there are virtual none for overweight. In fact, the dirty secret is that being overweight actually protects you from a few conditions (osteoporosis which is a leading cause of hip fractures which end up in death 50% ot the time, and DVTs)and does not seem to increase most others.

 

I think we have no real answers to why certain diseases are increasing and blaming poor diets is a cop-out. It may be that we have had such a great increase of auto-immune diseases because we got rid of childhood disease. It might be something else in our environment that has nothing to do with large corporations or government policy. Asthma is an autoimmune disease. Allergies are not but are also a problem with the immune system. It may be that there hasn't been any increase but just more awareness for some of these things.

 

No one the food angle- I like cooking and baking. It is really good that I do since it has been even more important for us since my youngest got a rare food allergy= citric acid which is in many fruits, along with many prepared products either as a flavoring agent or as a preservative.

[SKL]

 

OK, I'm not trying to make excuses, but I am wondering if this has anything to do with the fact that people eat at such different times now? I mean, I know it's ridiculous, the constant snacking, but if one family eats and 5 and the other eats at 7?

 

I'm just thinking that most parents are getting home when many activities start so it's throw the kid a snack till later when they get home at 8 pm and can have dinner?

 

 

Well, why can't each family be responsible to make sure their individual kids have a snack if needed?

 

I take my kids to The Little Gym 3 evenings per week (after school). Each day we go at a different time. The kids' lunch is around 11:30am. So I have to plan . . . Monday I make sure they have good a snack at after-school care since they have dance class at 6, and then we eat dinner at 7:30. Wednesday gym starts at 7:30 so we have dinner around 6:30. Thursday they have piano at 3:30 to 4:30 followed by back-to-back gym classes from 5:30 to 8:30, so we grab a bite around 5:00 (to eat in the car), and then I thrust a couple very quick snacks at them between the classes (e.g., a pouch of applesauce or yogurt). Little Gym never provides anything for the kids to eat, and that's how it should be IMO.

[Dandelion]

Unfortunately, the FDA does not have our best interests and health in mind when regulating food products, so it's up to us as consumers to research.

 

If Americans in general spend more time obsessing about food it may be because our FDA still claims the above is safe while many (BPA, GMOs, artificial additives, etc) are banned in other countries.

 

 

Great post!

 

Re: the FDA, the more I learn, the more skeptical and quite frankly disgusted I become with that organization. When the Senior Advisor to the FDA Commissioner is a former Monsanto lawyer and Monsanto V.P. for Public Policy anything is suspect. And that's not the only concerning connection. There are all kinds of examples of ties between the FDA and Big Food, Big Pharma, etc. that make you wonder whether the FDA has really just become the policy arm (or more accurately, puppet) for our country's largest commercial interests.

[WishboneDawn]

My butcher sells non-organic local chicken without any added solution. It is the same price as the grocery stuff although he cannot match their loss leader sales. Have you noticed how some chicken breasts at the grocery are massive--Franken-chicken sized? Birds from my butcher (or the organic frozen ones that I buy from my co-op) are smaller. Is all chicken the same? It might be to some but I see, smell and taste a difference. Maybe it is my imagination...

 

 

The chickens at the grocery store are Cornish X. These are a hybrid of four separate chicken breeds produced by old fashioned breeding. They are NOT Franken-chickens if the implication is that they are genetically tampered with in some way that excludes old-fashioned copulation. They are the most efficient chickens out there at converting feed to protein making them the standard chicken at the bigger farms.

 

They are also the kind we raise in the summer and they do have enormous (and delicious) breasts. The ones we raise taste better then the grocery store chickens. Ours get a more varied diet (feed, kitchen scraps and foraging) and a lot more exercise (either free-ranged or big penned-in swathes of the lawn) then the commercially farmed chickens and both factors affect taste. The chickens at your local butcher may be either Cornish Xs that are butchered a little younger or another breed like Freedom Rangers. I've only ever eaten Cornish Xs but I have heard others say different types of chickens can have different tastes.

 

I have a soft spot for Cornish Xs. They get a lot of bad press, especially amongst the chicken people, but ours have always been sweet birds that we've enjoyed raising. We have one in our coop right now, Fatty, who was spared because she was a relatively skinny hen when butchering time came. She's now three times as wide as our other chickens and produces massive eggs. :D

[MrsJewelsRae]

I spend a lot of time thinking about food, meal planning, growing and preserving a huge garden, raising my own chickens and turkeys for eggs and meat, learning true nutrition, etc. I really think that north Americans are quickly losing any idea of what real food is, and how to prepare it. Learning the food pyramid in school is not enough, they teach them the food pyramid then send them to a cafeteria filled with deep fried crap, high fructose corn syrup in dessert, juices and sodas filled with extreme amounts of sugar and dyes, and where ketchup is a vegetable!!! Watch Hungry For Change on Netflix and Farmageddon to get an idea of why I'm mad. The food industry is tricking us into thinking our food is ok and safe, or even healthy! I just recently learned that MSG has nearly 50 different names and was horrified to find it in a few things in my cupboard (yeast extract)! Food dyes and additives, artificial sweeteners are added specifically to trick our brains into wanting more, and hugely contributing to food addictions and obesity. Our food is killing us. The reason food is such a big deal is because our lives revolve around food, it's something every human on the planet has in common- from the oldest to the youngest we've all got to eat.

 

Furthermore, my oldest has some ADHD tendencies that make me pay attention to his diet, my daughter has asthma (hereditary- she is small and active/healthy) and eczema so she needs to watch her dairy intake, and my little boy has multiple severe food allergies- peanuts, eggs, milk, soy, kiwi, sunflower seeds. I have PCOS and endo, as well as asthma, I gain weight very easily and have a very difficult time losing it. I want to know what's in my food. My grandma is morbidly obese and diabetic- she's going to die from it! I got my PCOS and IR from her and I refuse to allow myself to get like that!

 

I want my kids to know about the food they eat, I want them to know how to fix a truly nutritious meal, to know how to read a label and find the hidden dangers of additives, artificial sweeteners, dyes, etc. I'm not talking about the occasional treat of m&ms or birthday party cake, I'm talking everyday foods we're consuming. A lot of people think granola bars are good for them, canned applesauce with high fructose corn syrup- they haven't a clue! I refuse to be one more ignorant consumer. People think that surely if our food were unsafe, the government wouldn't allow it on the shelves. No so. Change in our food isn't going to start in Ottawa or Washington, it start in our own kitchens and families (read a similar quote somewhere but cannot remember who said it?).

[Rosie_0801]

And here is a good place to post this clip:

 

Food is a big deal when it is part of your spirituality.

[Prairie~Phlox]

I really think the documentaries need to be taken with a grain of salt. I don't believe juicing is the answer, I believe the whole fruit or vegetable is better for you. Also, Forks Over Knives is very convincing, but I really think everything in moderation is key. I would love to see people eat less processed food and do see it as a problem, but I think if people chose more fresh fruits and vegetables, it would be better place to start.

[Guest inoubliable]

I spend a lot of time thinking about food, meal planning, growing and preserving a huge garden, raising my own chickens and turkeys for eggs and meat, learning true nutrition, etc. I really think that north Americans are quickly losing any idea of what real food is, and how to prepare it. Learning the food pyramid in school is not enough, they teach them the food pyramid then send them to a cafeteria filled with deep fried crap, high fructose corn syrup in dessert, juices and sodas filled with extreme amounts of sugar and dyes, and where ketchup is a vegetable!!! Watch Hungry For Change on Netflix and Farmageddon to get an idea of why I'm mad. The food industry is tricking us into thinking our food is ok and safe, or even healthy! I just recently learned that MSG has nearly 50 different names and was horrified to find it in a few things in my cupboard (yeast extract)! Food dyes and additives, artificial sweeteners are added specifically to trick our brains into wanting more, and hugely contributing to food addictions and obesity. Our food is killing us. The reason food is such a big deal is because our lives revolve around food, it's something every human on the planet has in common- from the oldest to the youngest we've all got to eat.

 

Furthermore, my oldest has some ADHD tendencies that make me pay attention to his diet, my daughter has asthma (hereditary- she is small and active/healthy) and eczema so she needs to watch her dairy intake, and my little boy has multiple severe food allergies- peanuts, eggs, milk, soy, kiwi, sunflower seeds. I have PCOS and endo, as well as asthma, I gain weight very easily and have a very difficult time losing it. I want to know what's in my food. My grandma is morbidly obese and diabetic- she's going to die from it! I got my PCOS and IR from her and I refuse to allow myself to get like that!

 

I want my kids to know about the food they eat, I want them to know how to fix a truly nutritious meal, to know how to read a label and find the hidden dangers of additives, artificial sweeteners, dyes, etc. I'm not talking about the occasional treat of m&ms or birthday party cake, I'm talking everyday foods we're consuming. A lot of people think granola bars are good for them, canned applesauce with high fructose corn syrup- they haven't a clue! I refuse to be one more ignorant consumer. People think that surely if our food were unsafe, the government wouldn't allow it on the shelves. No so. Change in our food isn't going to start in Ottawa or Washington, it start in our own kitchens and families (read a similar quote somewhere but cannot remember who said it?).

 

*slow clap*

Well said.

[WishboneDawn]

I really think the documentaries need to be taken with a grain of salt. I don't believe juicing is the answer, I believe the whole fruit or vegetable is better for you. Also, Forks Over Knives is very convincing, but I really think everything in moderation is key. I would love to see people eat less processed food and do see it as a problem, but I think if people chose more fresh fruits and vegetables, it would be better place to start.

 

 

I see a lot of claims about food that are poorly supported. People cling to ideas and model their families eating off them with little real (and I say real because their sources are often those documentaries you mentioned) evidence. The claims about aspartame and cancer for instance, aren't supported by real research but get repeated over and over and over again. Real research gets ignored because of suspicion from anything gov't or corporatations. It also seems like an eternal game of one-upmanship. If too many people become familiar with organic then the goal post is shifted to local. And terms become meaningless. I've seen different explanations of the term "clean eating" and what it involves and they rarely agree with each other. And gosh, the way specific grains are talked about is almost like the way fashion trends are discussed.

 

I tend to think it's about control. Life is chaotic and when we think we can control some factor to be a little surer of our lives or the lives of our children, we grab on. To a certain extent, good food does help but the obsession we seem to have about it these days certainly can't.

[Greenmama2]

 

 

 

That varies by region, just as it does here. Also, you folks still have about a million indigenous people living in remote areas, and they are typically not overweight, so that probably helps your stats. :)

 

Look, the Aussies I know are lovely people, so no dis on your country, but much of the whole world is getting fatter.

 

Not sure why the font keeps changing. Sorry.

 

Um? Indigenous Australians are almost twice as likely than those of European descent to be obese. Health problems like diabetes are BIG issues for the indigenous community here.

[Night Elf]

I haven't seen any farmers markets in my area. But if there were, how do you know they are "clean" vs. "dirty". I was brought up on grocery stores so all of this talk is completely foreign and bizarre to me. I'm one of those ignorant consumers you guys are talking about. I've been trying to learn more but the information is so absolutely overwhelming that it's hard to focus on anything. One thing tells me fresh fruits and veggies are healthy while another thing says the pesticides are so bad that I might as well not try to eat fresh. I watched the documentary with the guy who juiced his way through 2 months and can't even fathom having such a diet (as in food choices not weight loss program). I watched another that says to eat organic everything but it's so expensive that I wonder just how realistic it is for a lot of people. My grocery stores wants $7.50 for organic strawberries. Egads! I can buy two things of strawberries for that price and have money left over. It's sad that healthy eating ends up having to do with what people can spend.

[Paige]

I haven't seen any farmers markets in my area. But if there were, how do you know they are "clean" vs. "dirty".

 

 

You can ask them how they grow their crops.

[fairfarmhand]

I think this is a potentially unproductive way to see the issue. There are plenty of healthy people who don't cook it all from scratch for one. And for two, so many people who might be interested in eating better but see it as an all or nothing thing or as so hard and/or expensive that it is out of reach so they get overwhelmed and feel helpless. These feelings paralyze them and prevent them from making small, meaningful changes. Eating less meat is easy to do and still worth doing even if the alternate meal is not all from scratch. Eating more veggies is a good thing, regardless of if they are from the farmers market or from the freezer bin at the discount store. Eating less sugar is doable without eliminating occasional dalliances. Replacing box muffins with scratch muffins. Cooking dinner at home and eating as a family is beneficial to your health even if the meal is less than a pristine example of whole foods- what you cook at home can have less added sugar and will certainly have less sodium. Plenty of families in this country use food banks and food stamps. We fall into the trap of letting PERFECT get in the way of GOOD. I saw this a lot when I worked at a family service agency. If a family has canned tomato sauce from the food bank, learning how to turn that into a home prepared chili or marinara sauce is valuable and is better than being dependent on freezer dinners.

 

I am a dorky foodie whose choices are often equated with food snobbery. We buy almost all of our red meat from a farm all in one go, cook most things from scratch and when feasible and local-ish will choose organic over conventional. We have mass amounts of bulk whole foods on hand. I grow things when I can and we visit u-pick and small farm stands all summer. We make cheese and cider among other things and I make nearly all of our bread. And so on and so forth. But I don't consider how we eat to be the only valid way and I don't think someone without the resources (time, money or skills wise) should be discouraged from making positive food changes because they despair of being perfect. Ain't no one perfect.

 

Attainable good trumps unattainable perfect every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

I totally agree with this.

 

It takes time to become proficient in the kitchen. I can throw together "from scratch" food nowadays much more quickly than I did way back when. I have the recipes partly memorized and know what I need.

 

Besides, if you eat steel cut oatmeal, eggs, fresh fruit and homemade yogurt for breakfast, it takes very little time to prepare breakfast.,

 

Lunches and dinners can be a combo of fresh veggies, raw fruit, and meat. What does take time is preparing bread based items from scratch.