If you were in my shoes

[Denisemomof4]

I couldn't send you a PM! (((((hugs)))) Is there a K12 charter where you live? What about Time4learning.com? Just to give you some tracks for a season. (((((hugs))))

 

YES!!! GREAT idea! Have them do school online while you tend to the little one! Or at least take several subjects away to lighten your load.

[justasque]

I would get really realistic about setting a definite deadline for getting his behavior under control...meaning learning how to sit in a highchair, learning to sit next to you and do playdough, blocks, chunky beads, learning to lay down and rest with music or a tv program on...

 

Some kids will sit quietly and do this kind of stuff, but some high-energy, really bright kids are simply bored by things like playdough. I know these things work with the vast majority of kids, but if you have one of those outliers, you've got to have other ideas. Some thoughts:

 

1) Outside play, every day. Wears them out in a way that inside play simply doesn't.

2) Mental stimulation - things to figure out. Set up a little table with a new activity; let the child explore it to figure it out. One of those ball runs, a building toy, a puzzle, something with switches, a sorting box. (I actually taught one of mine to do Venn diagrams with plastic animals. Crazy, right? Outliers require creative approaches.)

3) Get out of the house. Park, playground, cafe, zoo - anywhere with new and interesting things to look at and explore. Being stuck looking at the same four walls gets boring after a while.

4) Mentally stimulating video games designed for that age level. IF you want to go down that road.

5) Have someone - babysitter, older sibling - play games with the child.

 

Again, most kids that age are happy to sit quietly and punch playdough. But if you've got a really high-energy, driven, curious kid - qualities that will serve them well later in life if used appropriately - you've got to provide the energy outlets and intellectual stimulation they are craving, or they'll find it through creating chaos.

[MollyAnn]

I agree with a Mom's Day Out program. DH was deployed when my two oldest were 3 and 1 and it saved my sanity.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Some kids will sit quietly and do this kind of stuff, but some high-energy, really bright kids are simply bored by things like playdough. I know these things work with the vast majority of kids, but if you have one of those outliers, you've got to have other ideas. Some thoughts:

 

1) Outside play, every day. Wears them out in a way that inside play simply doesn't.

2) Mental stimulation - things to figure out. Set up a little table with a new activity; let the child explore it to figure it out. One of those ball runs, a building toy, a puzzle, something with switches, a sorting box. (I actually taught one of mine to do Venn diagrams with plastic animals. Crazy, right? Outliers require creative approaches.)

3) Get out of the house. Park, playground, cafe, zoo - anywhere with new and interesting things to look at and explore. Being stuck looking at the same four walls gets boring after a while.

4) Mentally stimulating video games designed for that age level. IF you want to go down that road.

5) Have someone - babysitter, older sibling - play games with the child.

 

Again, most kids that age are happy to sit quietly and punch playdough. But if you've got a really high-energy, driven, curious kid - qualities that will serve them well later in life if used appropriately - you've got to provide the energy outlets and intellectual stimulation they are craving, or they'll find it through creating chaos.

 

 

I agree with you completely, hence my recommendation to set a deadline. I don't know the history here as to how much real effort she's taken to determine if he can be trained to be less disruptive. If she gives it until Christmas and hasn't been able to train him to be a bit calmer and yet can't find a happy medium between providing him with the safe, structured, non-chaotic environment he needs, and adequately educating her older children, then she needs to put them into school until he is a little older.

 

This is of course going on the assumption that her other children are in 2nd grade and above. I think a K or maybe a 1st grade student could just be read to a lot and do math daily and be fine...beyond those grades they need more than she can apparently give them right now.

 

If she can find outside care for her 18mo that is definitely an alternative, but I still think she needs to consider how to constructively deal with him rather than just constantly just doing damage control.

 

And I do have a high-energy, driven, curious kid that would resort to peeling the paint off the wall and pulling the carpet up off the floor if put in a room alone - she is totally sensory driven, stopped napping at 12 months, talks, sings or hums non stop, climbed out of her crib at 12 months, and learned how to open every child lock I installed...I did train her to sit for short periods of time punching playdough. (The trick was hiding stuff in the playdough :tongue_smilie: .)

[plain jane]

Thanks for all the replies, ladies. I have to read through everything but have a couple things to catch up on first. I did delete my PM box. :cool:

[LMD]

You have my sympathies. My youngest is like that, no one in the family has ever seen anything like him apparently. He became full on at 4 months old, walked/ran at 10 months and hasn't stopped since. Neither of my older children ever dared to throw a tantrum like this one does. My DH - quite strict as a parent - has said that he'll never judge another parent again, sometimes nothing you do helps!

 

Now, my olders are younger than yours, so we took an easier year (it was also crazy for other reasons) without too much guilt.

 

Dealing with the toddler, the only thing that works is 100% consistency (so hard when I'm sooo tired) and having somewhere else to put him. No toys in his room, that's time-out. Set up safe outside/garage, that's play area. Think of garage as a big fun play pen! We can school inside the house, I can hear him so I know if he's getting too out of hand, and we can all concentrate. It's not perfect, by a long shot.

 

He's 2 years and 4 months old now and in the last month or so he has started to get easier, but it's been a lot of hard work...

 

That said, I think the suggestions of babysitter/daycare are good, and school is a valid option.

[Impish]

Still won't allow me to pm you

[Impish]

Still won't allow me to pm you

[swellmomma]

I think you described my oldest from his toddlerhood. I would look into either daycare a couple mornings a week, or using an online school for the rest of the school year so you can get the older kids back on track and caught up (work through the summer if you have to), Reevaluate next fall if he is better behaved, ready for his own activities, if he should keep going to daycare, or if the bigs should go to ps.

 

Another option is make a space for this kid to be the monkey he needs to be at this age. Get a limikids indoor playground and set it up in the livingroom, add a rebounder trampoline and while the bigs do seat work, or online classes, supervise him and teach him how to safely use the equipment. Being able to climb and swing and bounce will help work a lot of that out of him. Toddlers are like puppies, they need both the physical and mental exercise daily or they get into trouble.

 

We are getting one of those indoor playgrounds if/when the disability money ever comes, it will help with the younger kids focus, if I knew about it back when ds was a tot I would have gladly invested in one back then.

[plain jane]

Buckle toddler into high chair or stroller or backpack or hip-sitting sling.

 

Have you tried TV/cartoons?

 

I'm sure I'll get flamed for that suggestion. LOL. I don't mean for HOURS per day, but man there is just something about cartoons.

 

I think it's just one of those tough moments that seem like it will last forever and is unsolvable. By the time you figure it out it will pass. KWIM?

 

 

I wish. :o I can't seem to get this one interested in cartoons or TV at all.

 

If kiddo still takes a nap, you could do whatever schoolwork you REALLY need to get done or REALLY need to have their attention on a subject. :grouphug: I hope you can find a solution soon!

 

 

Kiddo stopped napping but sometimes takes a 1/2 hour one. It's not enough to get anything done. I tried so incredibly hard to keep up the naps.

 

I can sooooooo see Boo being this kidlet in 6 mths. And then there'll be another one.

 

And now I want booze and can't have it. *cries*

 

I'm wondering about sensory activities. Is there any that might keep him interested for a bit, that you can rotate in and out?

 

 

I haven't found much to keep this one interested for more than 2 minutes at a time. Switching out activities every 2-5 min is exhausting for me. LOL Playdough still gets eaten, as do pencils and crayons. :rolleyes: I do have blocks that hold interest sometimes but usually they end up as projectiles.

 

I do discipline this kid. I'm not a pushover mama. I really haven't found what works with this one. And the violent temper tantrums that have recently started up are a whole 'nother bundle of fun.

[plain jane]

Another thing that we do is school outside. We have a huge fenced in backyard. He can run and play and ride his little scooter while we sit on the deck and have school.

 

 

This is a thought. My 4yo would love this too. I'll ask dh about getting a table we can keep outside for school (our outside one is dimpled and not good for writing on).

 

I'm not a big fan of daycare, either, but Jane seems like she's at the end of her rope, and she seems to need a break from her little one, both for the benefit of being able to homeschool her other kids, and for her own personal sanity.

 

I would prefer to see her choose a nice babysitter for the little one, so the kid would get more one-on-one attention, but there might be an excellent daycare center in her area that would be safe and pleasant for her little one to visit for a few hours each day. Why would it matter if the daycare center or babysitter didn't help the baby learn to be calmer? The kid isn't learning it at home, either, so what's the difference?

 

I can't think of any other solutions that don't involve putting her other kids in school, and that seems pretty unfair, since they have done nothing wrong. I could recommend all sorts of behavior modification techniques for Jane to try with her little one, but I'm sure she has already tried it all before, and things are still out of control. Some kids are just plain exhausting, and it sounds like Jane has one of them.

 

I'm not sure what else to suggest she do.

 

 

I've talked to my kids about going to school and the reasons (and pros) behind it. They seem to share these sentiments and feel it is a bit unfair to them to have to go to school when they don't want to just because baby sib is so..... busy. I feel bad because I know they really enjoying our homeschooling and they really have no desire to go to school, but they do understand and I know they'd go if I put my foot down. It's a tough decision because the local school is really not good. I mean, really not good. :sad: (yes, I have done quite a bit of looking into it these past few months)

 

Buckle toddler into high chair or stroller or backpack or hip-sitting sling.

 

 

Can climb out of highchair, no matter how tight I get it. Screams, and I mean SCREAMS and tantrums in the stroller. Pulls my hair while in the carrier or scratches my neck. <_< Loves to be carried by daddy in the carrier however. <_< I told dh to take this one to work. Funny, he doesn't seem to want to. :wacko:

[plain jane]

The problem I see with this ongoing issue is that not only are your older children not getting educated, but it seems you are spending all of your time cleaning up and just...surviving instead of being proactive in teaching your 18mo how to behave better. You owe your kids an education and you owe your baby the time and attention that is required to train him to function properly in your household.

 

I would get really realistic about setting a definite deadline for getting his behavior under control...meaning learning how to sit in a highchair, learning to sit next to you and do playdough, blocks, chunky beads, learning to lay down and rest with music or a tv program on... Then if you can't get his behavior under control by that date then you need to send your other kids back to school.

 

An unruly toddler left to run amok in the household is going to turn into an unruly child who expects to rule the household.

 

I would set a deadline for Christmas. Create a schedule for doing the basics for your other children...math, reading, writing and write up a schedule for doing the work during the day. Explain to your other dc that while the work is important the main goal is to get the 18 mo to learn how to behave while you all are doing school. I'd also let your older dc (if they are 9-10 or older) that their staying home is dependent on if you can get 18mo to behave and letting 18mo get into things during their "watch" isn't going to help their cause.

 

Things that worked for us:

*Start the day with an activity you do with the 18mo. About 20 minutes.

*Next 18mo sits next to you in the highchair and colors, strings big penne pasta or chunky beads, or plays with playdough. Rotate through those things until you've gotten at least 30 minutes.

*Next have an older child play fetch or tag...something to get his heart racing. And if older child allows 18mo to pour salt across the floor older child would be cleaning it up.

*Now, stick 18mo in the bathtub with a couple cups of non toxic poster paint and a paintbrush and let him paint himself while you work with someone on the bathroom floor.

*After this a nice bubble bath would be relaxing for 18mo while you work with others on the bathroom floor (or doing math on the bathroom mirror with dry erase is fun)

*Let 18mo eat lunch now, in his highchair, while you work with someone.

*Spend another 20 minutes with just him doing something fun or relaxing.

*Now it's time for rest time. If he won't nap and won't lay quietly alone then put him on the couch with a pillow and blanket and put on music, an audio book, or a tv program or movie. Have one of your older children sit with him.

After that he could spend another period of time in the highchair.

 

All of that should allow you to get the basics done. Of course you have to get him to do all of these things and that is a matter of training him with consistency and repetition. You must be devoted to sticking with it. If he gets up from the couch during his rest time you put him back....over and over and over again, day after day. If your routine is the same each and every day he will eventually get it. I know it feels frustrating, out of control, and that you can't catch a breath but barring any medical\emotional\chemical issues with your 18mo, YOU have the ability and power to set the tone for your household. You are the parent and you have to take charge and make things happen.

 

I hope you don't take any of this as insensitive...just realistic. I've been the one with out of control dc and it's extremely soul crushing at times. The best advice I received was that which made me realize that I needed to make some hard decisions, suck it up, and get tough. I owed that to my kids. :grouphug:

 

.

 

This is a great post, thanks. I'll be printing it out and doing some talking with Dh.

[thebacabunch]

My dc is like yours. Super destructive and crazy. So much energy. I have found a few things that work.

Exercise. First thing is a big long walk, time at the park, or even a super wrestling session. Wear the little one out.

Second, do something with kiddo like building blocks, playing cars or playdough.

Third, workboxes for the kids. This has saved us all. My second grader is even somewhat independant with workboxes.

Fourth, do some "school" with dc and the olders like a craft or game.

 

My dc is the kind of kid that others are surprised at because he is so energetic. He doesn't nap. He sleeps a maximum of 10 hours a night. It passes. It really does. He still climbs on the table and colors on the other kids papers sometimes, but my kids are home with me. Don't forget about audiobooks and documentaries as well for the other kids. They can learn while you interact with the baby.

[plain jane]

Well, thanks again everyone for the honest responses. My heart is really heavy tonight and I had to get up a bit because I can't sleep. I'm so sad it has come to this. I have dreamed about and made plans to homeschool since before I was pregnant with my first. I love it and it has brought so much joy and fulfillment to my life, and my children enjoy it too.

 

I never dreamed that it all would end and come crashing down because of one small baby. :sad: I never would have figured we'd have a child like this. My other kiddos are not perfect, but they are calm, well adjusted, happy, obedient kids. This last one is just such a firecracker. I have never in my life seen a child so busy and fussy.

 

I don't know how many times on these boards I've seen the advice to just go ahead and have one more child... you'll never regret it. One more is no biggie. :w00t: Reality is, you just don't know what kind of child you're going to get and it may just be the one who changes your life forever. The one who extinguishes your dreams. (well, more like stomps on them in a screaming tantrum fit) I feel like that's what it's come to for me and that's a hard pill to swallow. I'm not saying I regret having this child but I'd be lying if I said I never thought about how things would be without an out of control toddler in the house. We used to be such a peaceful loving family. We're still very loving and close but there is no peace with a child who never sleeps and just goes non-stop. It's just so chaotic and I try so hard to get school done. I try so hard. :(

 

You're all right. I'm doing my kids a disservice and I need to fix this. They deserve an education and it's about them. They shouldn't be the ones to suffer because their sibling is ... I dunno... insane??

 

I've had this child seen by a psychologist who said there is nothing we can do but hang on for dear life for a few more years. I wish y'all had seen the pity in her eyes when she said that. :ohmy: I'm doing the best I can. I do discipline. I do try everything I know. Some kids are just born to the wrong parents and they tear lives apart. :crying:

[FairProspects]

:grouphug: That post breaks my heart. It does get better. Some of us have lived through toddlers like this (the difference is it was my oldest so I didn't have the responsibilities of olders yet). Wishing you peace whatever you decide!

[skeeterbug]

Oh my goodness, after reading your last response op, I'm completely voting for daycare. YOU NEED A BREAK!!!! Please find something, daycare, MDO, babysitter, something outside of your home that will give you a break. And then the first few times your toddler goes, just chill and don't try to get a bunch of schooling done. Hang out with your other kids and recharge. Do it soon. Don't feel guilty, it's what your family needs right now.

[plain jane]

:grouphug: That post breaks my heart. It does get better. Some of us have lived through toddlers like this (the difference is it was my oldest so I didn't have the responsibilities of olders yet). Wishing you peace whatever you decide!

 

I'm going to get flamed for it, I'm sure. But it is what it is. I'm just so disappointed, in myself, and with this situation. I thought I was a better parent than this. My 4 others were nothing like this. None of my friends' kids are anything like this. The screaming, and the tantrums, and the destruction. It just breaks my heart. Sure, there are good moments. Plenty of them. I try to focus on them and tell myself we're going to get through this. But then I look at the kids' school work and they are on week 10 when we should be in week 14 (and we haven't even started science or history this year except for just reading) and I realize I'm not doing my job with them.

[skeeterbug]

I'm going to get flamed for it, I'm sure. But it is what it is. I'm just so disappointed, in myself, and with this situation. I thought I was a better parent than this. My 4 others were nothing like this. None of my friends' kids are anything like this. The screaming, and the tantrums, and the destruction. It just breaks my heart. Sure, there are good moments. Plenty of them. I try to focus on them and tell myself we're going to get through this. But then I look at the kids' school work and they are on week 10 when we should be in week 14 (and we haven't even started science or history this year except for just reading) and I realize I'm not doing my job with them.

 

It doesn't sound like it is your parenting skills that are at fault here. And you will get through it, you won't have a toddler forever. It's just going to feel like an eternity until you get there. You need a break from this one. Let someone else do the chasing for awhile.

[FairProspects]

I'm going to get flamed for it, I'm sure. But it is what it is. I'm just so disappointed, in myself, and with this situation. I thought I was a better parent than this. My 4 others were nothing like this. None of my friends' kids are anything like this. The screaming, and the tantrums, and the destruction. It just breaks my heart. Sure, there are good moments. Plenty of them. I try to focus on them and tell myself we're going to get through this. But then I look at the kids' school work and they are on week 10 when we should be in week 14 (and we haven't even started science or history this year except for just reading) and I realize I'm not doing my job with them.

 

Oh I hear you, and believe me it has very little to do with your parenting and everything to do with the temperament of the child. My child was so crazy at that age that my parent ed program at the time offered an entire educational seminar on "Intensity in Children". The instructor pulled me aside and told me privately it was created just for me and those working with my child in our class. :tongue_smilie:

 

Just be kind to yourself. Not many people will understand your life, but it really does get better. Same child is now an incredibly curious, bright inventor. I just didn't realize that all that destruction was really non-stop experimenting with the world around him. :)

[swellmomma]

It does get better, I promise it just comes later with some kids. I could have written your updated post myself. I've been there, with my oldest it is finally getting better...he is 14. It is not a matter of the wrong parents for a particular kid. It is simply having a kid that is going to stretch you further than you ever felt possible. It's like building up to do the splits. Each day you stretch a little bit further, and somedays it's the same pain as a kick in the junk. Like you are being ripped in 2. And as much as it hurts the next day you can stretch even further than ever before, and you are sure that is it. You can not possible go any further, and someone comes and pushes on your shoulders and you stretch a few more millimeters. For some that stretching and getting comfortable and good at those splits (or working with a particularily trying kid) comes easily and from just walking to on the floor in mere months. For others it takes years to master it, but eventually with daily work we all get there. I look back now and wonder "wow was it really that bad? COuld 1 kid really have done that much damage?" And then I start remembering the specifics and the fact he was on an antipsychotic at only 3. I remember all the crap he put me through. One day I will have a ton of stories to tell of how we managed to survive to graduation or his wedding, or him having kids. It comes, just not easily. Things that worked with 3 of my kids did not work with ds. Of course he was my oldest, and being so close in age to dd, I spent years holding my bladder until he slept at night(which was never long) because if I went to the bathroom she would follow him and they would completely destroy something, or climb into or onto something, or any other series of bad things. DS thinks it is hilarious that I am never in the bathroom more than 2-3 minutes even now that they are all big, because my body learned that is as much time as it gets.

 

Being only 4 weeks behind is not the end of the world. Work on Saturdays, work in the summer etc and you will get it all done. If babe is a destructo-bug give him things he can destroy safely...old phone books, magazines etc. If he likes to color walls, give him cardboard boxes or get a big roll of paper and tape it to the wall at his height. Have him finger paint with pudding, it is a sensory activity, will keep him busy and if he eats it, big deal. have a bath right after. My ds liked having a baby pool filled with ball pit balls (I bought a big box of them at toys r us way back then), yes they flew all over the house but he liked it...he *still* plays with them at 14. He loved shredded paper too. That same baby pool filled with shredded paper could keep him busy for quite a while.

 

The only thing that ever made him truly stop was teletubbies. I hated that danged show but from the age of 9 months on he would stop dead in his tracks and not move until it ended. 20 minutes of bliss. That lasted until he was nearly 3 and then he branched into other pbskids shows. I had a little tikes rocking horse, a see saw, and other such toys for him to play with indoors. He needed movement. He was a daredevil, and would seek stimuli of fast movement, heights, etc. He wore me right out...he still does.

 

Admitting you have a little one that is challenging is not a sign of being the wrong parent, or being a bad parent or anything negative. It just means you need to be a different parent than you previously was, or than others think you should be for that particular child. Different does not equate wrong/bad. As for no peace, I am holding out hope that will come when ds moves out one day.

[Giraffe]

I'm going to get flamed for it, I'm sure. But it is what it is. I'm just so disappointed, in myself, and with this situation. I thought I was a better parent than this. My 4 others were nothing like this. None of my friends' kids are anything like this. The screaming, and the tantrums, and the destruction. It just breaks my heart. Sure, there are good moments. Plenty of them. I try to focus on them and tell myself we're going to get through this. But then I look at the kids' school work and they are on week 10 when we should be in week 14 (and we haven't even started science or history this year except for just reading) and I realize I'm not doing my job with them.

 

It does get better. DD wasn't as intense as your LO, but she was pretty amazing. Luckily she's my one and only. When she was 18 months I thought I'd go crazy. DH was working out of town, I had no car, and there was no where to walk to from our tiny apartment. Just DD and me in the house. All. Week. Long. When we finally moved and got a second car we put her in preschool (she was 3 by then). Saved my sanity - literally.

 

I STRONGLY recommend a MDO program, a babysitter, or a daycare program, even just for the mornings or afternoons, so that you can get a break and your olders can get their schooling done. You can work on the training that has been recommended by PP when she's at home (e.g., daycare in the AM, home & training in the PM).

 

And whenever you can, get out of the house, by yourself, and get a cup of coffee. Sit and breathe....

[lailasmum]

My 4yr old was like this. He could crack any child proofing from about 14months.and just destroyed everything. it's alot better now but he is still very active, he tends to put that energy into toys now, stuff like lego and KNEX.

 

I wonder whether your son would get on with an outdoor nursery. One like the German nature/forest style nurseries if they exist in your area. The kids are outside for their session in all weathers (apropriately dress obviously). It's super active and could wear him out.

[Laura Corin]

Hobbes went to playgroup in the mornings when he was small. I suspect he was two when he started, but I can't remember clearly. He adored it and it gave us all a break: he's highly social and much busier than Calvin. Lailasmum's idea of an outdoor nursery might be really good. Here's a website for one to give you an idea of what to look for.

 

If this is not an option then yes, in your shoes I would put the older children into school. I know that it depends on the school, but my (bright) boys have found plenty to occupy them since beginning school. They are happy and fulfilled.

 

Best wishes with your decision

 

Laura

[LaxMom]

I agree with the morning daycare suggestion. It sounds like this little guy needs a stimulation rich environment, or he creates one for himself. A good daycare/preschool will give him that, as well as give Jane and the olders time for school without interruption. Win-win.

 

So kids just need that level of interaction. Why should nobody's needs be met rather than everybody's? Because it doesn't fit with someone else's definition of optimal parenting? That's silly.

[Lolly]

Well, thanks again everyone for the honest responses. My heart is really heavy tonight and I had to get up a bit because I can't sleep. I'm so sad it has come to this. I have dreamed about and made plans to homeschool since before I was pregnant with my first. I love it and it has brought so much joy and fulfillment to my life, and my children enjoy it too.

 

I never dreamed that it all would end and come crashing down because of one small baby. :sad: I never would have figured we'd have a child like this. My other kiddos are not perfect, but they are calm, well adjusted, happy, obedient kids. This last one is just such a firecracker. I have never in my life seen a child so busy and fussy.

 

I don't know how many times on these boards I've seen the advice to just go ahead and have one more child... you'll never regret it. One more is no biggie. :w00t: Reality is, you just don't know what kind of child you're going to get and it may just be the one who changes your life forever. The one who extinguishes your dreams. (well, more like stomps on them in a screaming tantrum fit) I feel like that's what it's come to for me and that's a hard pill to swallow. I'm not saying I regret having this child but I'd be lying if I said I never thought about how things would be without an out of control toddler in the house. We used to be such a peaceful loving family. We're still very loving and close but there is no peace with a child who never sleeps and just goes non-stop. It's just so chaotic and I try so hard to get school done. I try so hard. :(

 

You're all right. I'm doing my kids a disservice and I need to fix this. They deserve an education and it's about them. They shouldn't be the ones to suffer because their sibling is ... I dunno... insane??

 

I've had this child seen by a psychologist who said there is nothing we can do but hang on for dear life for a few more years. I wish y'all had seen the pity in her eyes when she said that. :ohmy: I'm doing the best I can. I do discipline. I do try everything I know. Some kids are just born to the wrong parents and they tear lives apart. :crying:

 

 

I really hate to do this. Jane, it is time to put these kids in school. It is not this one small boy. This was an issue before he was born. You would regularly come and be at your wits end about needing to put the kids in school before you were pg with him. So, it could be a couple of things. 1. You have cycles where you yourself are not able to handle things emotionally/physically. (This is usually where MY "give up" moments originate.) 2. I decided I would be flamed endlessly and have decided not to post it. Yes, another active infant, toddler, child makes things even harder than they were before. Baby is 18 months. Honestly, it is most likely just going to get worse for the next year and a half.

 

Also, a mother's day out program is not going to be enough. You have a full time job schooling. A few hours a couple of times a week isn't going to be enough. Your oldest is in 6th grade. You can't do 6th grade well in that time, let alone add in a few others. I am going to suggest full time school for the olders and Mother's Day Out for the little. You can volunteer at the kids' schools during that time. During the time you have your ds home, maybe you can find the joy in your little one. Feeling like he was "born to the wrong parents" is not a good place for him, much less you. Have you considered that perhaps you would have a different relationship with him if the olders were not always pulling you to do other things? How would your relationship with him be if he was the only one home and you could spend all that cuddle/playtime with him? Try it. Just remember that while doing it, you are not allowed to be angry with him or depressed about having the others out of the house. Do not blame him for the change in lifestyle. It is NOT his fault. Truly, if you go back to posts you made before he was a gleam in your eye, you were having these SAME problems and issues. You were just pointing the blame elsewhere, not on him.

[Joanne]

1) Please look at previous threads and, if you haven't, try the ideas and suggestions in them.

 

2) In this situation, I would totally put the challenging toddler in daycare before I put the kids in school.

[KungFuPanda]

I'd look into a half day program for the little guy. He'd be able to burn some energy in a toddler-safe environment and the rest of the family can get some real work done and a break from the chaos. You can save independent work for afternoons after you've picked up the toddler. You'll get so much done while he's away exploring, and maybe even miss him a little bit so you can really enjoy him once he's home. Better to have a relaxed mom half the day than an exasperated mom all day long.

 

It's worth trying. If it doesn't work after a fair adjustment period, simply stop doing it.

[JessReplanted]

Can you clean out a room that you can monitor? Cover the power outlets and put his safe toys in there. Then put up two baby gates, one over the other, so he can't escape. Just let him play. Your older kids can take turns being in there with him. You can spend time in there with him. It won't hurt him, just think of it as a giant playpen.

 

This is what I was thinking. Do whatever needs to be done in order to create a 'safe zone' where your 18 month old can have free reign.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Just hugs to you... I've known toddlers like that. I had a cousin just like what you describe. At 3 years, he climbed onto the roof of their 2 storied house, going through the bathroom window. He drowned when he was 4 (obviously they ressuscitated him). On *all* his childhood pics he's so dirty you can barely see his skin colour - a la Pigpen in Charlie Brown) If it helps any, now that he's 50, he's a multimillionaire. So there's hope!

(and if anyone cares, he made his money dynamiting mountains! :laugh: )

 

I vote for daycare myself. You need the break, your house needs the break, and your child needs the environment. It's also very possible that this child is the one that will attend school. He will likely love the sports teams.

[jelbe5]

I have not read all the replies, but here are some ideas I found helpful from Managers of Their Homes:

 

1) Plan a meeting time with school age children where you go over school they really need help with. Then try to have those children do the rest of their school work independently.

 

2) Have each child take a turn of 1/2 hour or so to play with 18 month old while you work with others, then rotate through the children again and again if necessary.

 

3) Provide 18 month old with special toys which come out only during school time to hold interest. You might need to take a few days from school to clean up toys and put them away out of reach, but this may help. Rotate through the toys, bring one special thing out per day (or at a time) to hold interest and decrease mess.

 

4) work with 18 month old to learn to be content to be alone for short periods of time in room or in a playpen. Start with 1-5 minutes and work up to 30. Give lots of praise and encouragement for playing alone and ignore crying, protesting. Remember, you are starting with only a few minutes - this will not hurt baby and baby will become used to it.

 

5) use short educational videos 1-2x per day if you allow TV.

 

It will get better. I am so sorry it is so hard right now.

 

I just read your most recent post. Does your baby sleep at night? Take naps? Your post reminded me so much of how I felt after our son was born. Is it possible your son has food sensitivities which contribute to behavior?

[texasmama]

I agree with the morning daycare suggestion. It sounds like this little guy needs a stimulation rich environment, or he creates one for himself. A good daycare/preschool will give him that, as well as give Jane and the olders time for school without interruption. Win-win.

 

So kids just need that level of interaction. Why should nobody's needs be met rather than everybody's? Because it doesn't fit with someone else's definition of optimal parenting? That's silly.

Absolutely! The child will likely be happier in a mother's day out situation, as well.

[fairfarmhand]

I'd try morning day care before I put the kids in school, and you know what? I bet getting out of the house to get baby at daycare and having a lunchtime deadline will have your whole crew more motivated to get things done.

 

Also, I'd move a bunkbed out of a bedroom (perhaps all 4 kids sleeping in one room with the other being a "play-pen/playroom" will be a temporary solution to this. 2 baby gates on top of each other in the doorway and nothing for him to climb on. Remember that THIS IS TEMPORARY! Your whole house will not need to be babyproofed for the rest of your life.

 

 

BTW...someone suggested K12...don't. Even though it says it is all online, much hand-holding is still needed and it frustrates my kids when they have to wait on me to do things for them.

[elfgivas]

:grouphug: its hard.

 

fwiw, if they are on week 10 instead of week 14, you are in no way failing them. at all.

if the school is that bad, they aren't going to do better than what they are doing now, and likely worse.

i recently figured out that my dc are now far enough along the homeschool path in grades 7 and 9 that going to school is no longer an option.

the grade 9 child has already worked herself out of high school skill-wise, and mostly content-wise, too.

 

joanne is bang on: day care/mother's day out/homecare for the little one, maybe every morning, maybe twice a week would be the way to go.

after a morning out, hopefully, he'll come home and nap, and that will give you another hour.

 

meanwhile, i'd look at changing myself. you said two things which had me sit up a bit. one was that the table outside was too dimpled for handwriting. at this point, you need to just let these small things go, so that you can continue to do what is best for your kids. it doesn't actually really matter; an extra piece of cardboard or a book under the paper being written on will do. what you consider adequate schooling may well be most people's "excellent, over the top wonderful" schooling. for just this season of your lives, which may only be a few more months, you may have to be okay with "adequate" by other people's standards.

 

maybe look at how you are teaching, too. can you begin to switch yourself in just one subject to a model that is 10 minutes of instruction, and then leaving the kids to do the work on that subject on their own, with you checking back in every five minutes or so? there are some curriculae that won't work like that; those may need to go temporarily so that you can continue to homeschool.

 

i would look to find one subject for each child that is outsourced. we started with historyatourhouse.com a few years ago, and found it to be excellent, both in content and in the skills it helped the dc develop. it also kept me sane. this is not to be underestimated ;) .

 

and lastly, i would find a professional who can help you learn to interact with your youngest in the most positive way. i would look for someone who can work with both of you and help you come up with a stable of activities that the two of you do together well. and then i'd make sure that each part of a day (morning, afternoon and evening) began with those things.

 

if you look at the whole picture, it is overwhelming. it will help to look at just one piece and then work on getting it to a good place. (even a tolerable place would do).

 

:grouphug:

ann

[elfgivas]

oh, another idea or three:

a) do math and language arts every day, but switch other things to a semester format, so you and your olders are only dealing with two other subjects each day, just in more depth and detail.

B) video yourself on the computer teaching a lesson and have the kids do one subject that way. (ie. you become your own outsourced teacher). OR ask your dh to do this.

c) work on your olders becoming more responsible for their own learning. if they have a math problem, step one might be to watch the kahn academy video on that thing (2-10 minutes) and see if that helps them. or ask an elder. or get a sibling to come and take the toddler for 5 minutes while you work with them.

 

if you redefine your day as you caring for the toddler, and helping them manage their own learning, that may just destress everything.... a lot.....

 

good luck!

ann

[catz]

BTW...someone suggested K12...don't. Even though it says it is all online, much hand-holding is still needed and it frustrates my kids when they have to wait on me to do things for them.

 

 

:iagree: I have many friends that are using or have used online programs. They really do not involve less parental involvement, and often require more because you need to answer to an outside teacher. The kids I know doing this are doing TONS of paper work. I think it may have it's merits for some kids in jr. high and up, but for young kids, I doubt the effort is worth it for most people.

 

Gently, you seem extremely stressed and you often come here seeming very depressed, anxious, and overwhelmed. I have 2 kids that were both super intense like this. Dont' be surprised if this turns out to be your brightest and most passionte kid. Humor, time, consistency are all things that got me through. I had to get my littles out of the house almost everyday or they would have been climbing the curtains. I totally get having a kid that needs an over abundance of stimulation. I think it's time to step back and make a major change for your own sanity. Honestly, it sounds to me like you might need both your 18 mo in a morning out program AND possibly your kids in school as well. It wouldn't need to be forever. Do you do things for yourself? Exercise? Read? Get out with your DH? Have you talked to your own doctor about your stress levels? :grouphug:

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I'm also anti-daycare and I live in the land of almost free daycare! (7$ per day)

 

But I see a difference between sending a child to a full time daycare (which usually means longer days for the baby than for mom), having that child go there even when sick and running a fever because mom has a meeting, and just bringing a toddler to daycare for short days (I would consider 9 to 3 a short daycare day, compared to what most kids experience) And that would leave you with a good school day.

[fairfarmhand]

I have many friends that are using or have used online programs. They really do not involve less parental involvement, and often require more because you need to answer to an outside teacher. The kids I know doing this are doing TONS of paper work. I think it may have it's merits for some kids in jr. high and up, but for young kids, I doubt the effort is worth it for most people.

 

 

 

 

yup.

[Mandy in TN]

My oldest ds was so easy. I would look at other mothers and wonder why in the world they didn't get their kids under control. Then, I had my second son.

 

My middle ds fell out of shopping carts more than once. Being buckled into anything did absolutely nothing. Buckles hardly slowed him down. I spent a couple of years with all the knives locked over the frig.He kicked, pinched, hit, threw things. I was patient. I was consistent. I was young, strong, full of energy and didn't loose my cool... often.

 

I went to a women's bible study once a week and he pitched a fit the entire time I was away from him. One of the older nursery workers brought in her retired hubby and he did pretty well with him. I needed that break once a week. We would eat lunch and it was the one time each week that I was able to sit in a chair for an entire meal. Regardless of whether or not you put the older kids in school, find something where you have a little time away. Putting them in school will not give you time to have a conversation a meal or a bath.

 

FWIW, my little guy was a terror of a toddler. He was a raging, destructive preschooler. He never shut up. Until he was about 8, it was life as narrated by the Cashew. So, I am not going to tell you that this is just something he will outgrow quickly. OTOH, he hit about 10 and some of the beginnings of puberty and calmed down. I would like to think that it was all those years of love and tomato staking and patience and guidance, but honestly he hit puberty and was a totally different person. This is a realization that I am growing into. At one point not so long ago, I would have given more "great advice" and myself more credit. Now at 19yo he is my quietest and most sensitive child. Go figure. When we discuss how he used to behave, he can't reconcile who he was with who he is, so I sure can't.

 

Kids do not come to you as a blank slate. They are born with their own little personalities. Not having been around your little one I have no idea how much you can train and how much is just who he is. Who he is can be guided and loved, but I can't imagine that you will change his whole personality or that setting a deadline with a toddler as being productive. Cut yourself some slack. Find a MDO.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Gretchen in NJ]

Hi Jane! Sorry to hear about your woes. I have to respectfully disagree with putting the toddler in a program outside your home unless it was with a grandparent for a few hours. The younger the child is the more important it is to have the child be bonding with his mama.

 

I know you, Jane. You plan wonderfully for your children's education and have very high standards. I am wondering if maybe it is time to reassess your curriculum choices and what you want to accomplish this year. You might be able to adjust your curriculum to have it be less teacher intensive.

 

Because of what is going on with my family, my oldest is now attending a local Catholic High School. It was not my choice. It was hers. She has transitioned beautifully and with great grace. She is glowing at school and acheiving greatly. Honestly, I didn't think she was going to do so well. Not because she wasn't smart, but because I as her teacher didn't get to this curriculum or that curriculum. I was very sick for a few months one year. The following year, my husband hurt himself very badly. I was taking him to medical appointments for months taking many hours out of my homeschool day. I felt defeated.

 

Last week, I was told during parent/teacher conferences that my daughter is an assest to the school. I must be a great teacher since she is doing so well.

 

I am sharing this with you, because I have learned that we are hard on ourselves as homeschool moms. Sometimes, you need to devote your time in a different area then you would like, but it is not the end of the world. Your children will shine for it.

[Catwoman]

 

Kids do not come to you as a blank slate. They are born with their own little personalities. Not having been around your little one I have no idea how much you can train and how much is just who he is. Who he is can be guided and loved, but I can't imagine that you will change his whole personality or that setting a deadline with a toddler as being productive. Cut yourself some slack. Find a MDO.

 

 

 

Very helpful post, Mandy! :)

[Gretchen in NJ]

I'm also anti-daycare and I live in the land of almost free daycare! (7$ per day)

 

But I see a difference between sending a child to a full time daycare (which usually means longer days for the baby than for mom), having that child go there even when sick and running a fever because mom has a meeting, and just bringing a toddler to daycare for short days (I would consider 9 to 3 a short daycare day, compared to what most kids experience) And that would leave you with a good school day.

I would consider it a full day of school.

[Amy in NH]

Can climb out of highchair, no matter how tight I get it. Screams, and I mean SCREAMS and tantrums in the stroller. Pulls my hair while in the carrier or scratches my neck. <_< Loves to be carried by daddy in the carrier however. <_< I told dh to take this one to work. Funny, he doesn't seem to want to. :wacko:

 

Look into a highchair with a 5 point harness.

 

Let him scream and tantrum in the stroller until he stops, then let him out. Rinse, repeat. He needs to learn that tantrums won't get him what he wants.

 

Hip carrier. Hold his hands, let him tantrum until he learns he can't get away with it.

 

He is also too young to give up a nap. (I'll try telling him that ;) )

[5LittleMonkeys]

Jane, regarding MDO or daycare for your 18mo...if you do this please remember that it is just like putting a band-aid on a gaping cut. You still are going to have to learn how to parent this child when he is home. He is still going to have to be trained to function within your family. And I don't care what anyone says...you can learn to live peacefully with this type of child. You do not have to resign yourself to just holding on for the ride. Doing so isn't fair to anyone in your household, including him.

 

I don't think you are a bad parent. I don't doubt for a moment your love and devotion to your children. Your 18mo wasn't born to the wrong parent, he was just born to a parent who wasn't prepared to provide him with what he needs. YOU have to train yourself, just as much as you train your children. You need to sit down and take a good hard look at the issues you've been having for years...if you are still having them then you obviously need to drastically change things. Don't put band-aids on them...heal them for good. Parenting him and homeschooling may mean that your lifestyle needs to completely change...I know mine did.

 

It is a balancing act for sure. Dd3 needs constant stimulation from the time she wakes until she hits the bed at night. And even though I have been able to train her to comply to being confined to a chair for short periods of time, or to laying down to watch a program, I still have to deal with her need to be busy, engaged, and supervised for the majority of the day. I have to have things in place so that I can move her seamlessly from one activity to the next without disrupting my teaching the 4 other children. It's HARD! At the end of my teaching day at 4 or 5pm (we start at 8) I'm exhausted, but I feel satisfied that I provided all of my children with exactly what they needed. Not everyday to be sure, but most days. The days that she has tantrums, fits, screams, and the other kids argue, fuss and whine are the days that I'm not doing my job. I'm not saying any of that to toot my own horn but to express to you that you can do this if you stop beating yourself up over it, stop wondering how it could have been, pull up your big girl panties and take charge. If you truly want this to happen (keeping your kids home and educating them effectively while providing your 18 mo with the structure and enrichment he needs) make a plan and attack it.

 

If you need a kick in the pants there it is. :grouphug: to you Jane.

[I.Dup.]

I really think Chucki had a great idea with making a safe room to put the little one in, and having siblings take turns entertaining him. This is not something we do regularly but it has worked beautifully when we have done it (with as many as we have, they tend to entertain each other pretty well all on their own). I know you said you had bunk beds in each room, but I would maybe put a tent above the top bunk so he can't climb on it, or move the bunk beds around. I'm sure you can carve out some room, somehow.

 

If you have each child take turns spending 20-30 minutes for, say, 2 hours, that can give you 40 minutes of uninterrupted time with each child. They really do develop their own special bond with each other when they have one-on-one time and come up with special little games and things to play.

 

I also would look into something less teacher intensive. CLE has been great for us. It sounds like your kids are bright enough where they can work on their own more independently.

[Scarlett]

I'd try morning day care before I put the kids in school, and you know what? I bet getting out of the house to get baby at daycare and having a lunchtime deadline will have your whole crew more motivated to get things done.

 

Also, I'd move a bunkbed out of a bedroom (perhaps all 4 kids sleeping in one room with the other being a "play-pen/playroom" will be a temporary solution to this. 2 baby gates on top of each other in the doorway and nothing for him to climb on. Remember that THIS IS TEMPORARY! Your whole house will not need to be babyproofed for the rest of your life.

 

 

BTW...someone suggested K12...don't. Even though it says it is all online, much hand-holding is still needed and it frustrates my kids when they have to wait on me to do things for them.

 

Yes about the K12. My ds is JUST now, as a 7th grader, able to be almost 100% independent with K12. It is a rigorous program even though it is boxed. ;)

 

Your last post broke my heart too Jane...you are in NO WAY failing any of your children, but you need a break. I would definitely find a daycare for your toddler...8-12 at least 3 days a week--and I wouldn't be opposed to 5 days a week. If your dh could drop off that woud help you a lot...I agree it will motivate everyone to get their work done while baby is out for the morning.

[Remudamom]

I didn't read all so maybe it's already been said. You said there are bunk beds in every room? Could you cram one room full of beds and have it be just a survival sleeping room so that you could have a kid safe room?

 

When the triplets were little I had a room that was safe for them with two baby gates on it so they couldn't escape. I didn't have to move their baby beds out of the room though, I know that can be a problem. If I were you I'd move heaven and earth for a safe room. It saved my sanity.

 

ETA- yep, fairfarmhand has already said it.

[Tap]

My solution to this same problem was to put the little one in daycare. I found a busy M-F daycare with several staff in each room. My older kids were in in-home daycare when they were little and I didn't want that for dd5. She would absolutely burn out a single worker! The busy daycare could also meet her needs better. They were able to stimulate her at the level she craved. They also enforsed a required nap time for all the toddlers (or they laid on their cots for the whole time) which was a nice routine for the days when she was home. I would take her in the morning and pick her up about an hour after nap. This way part of her time there was nap time, but it gave me a large enough chunk of my day to get school done. Then when she got home, we all had more patience to deal with her and her issues. School was done and life was much, much calmer and happier.

[nmoira]

Jane, regarding MDO or daycare for your 18mo...if you do this please remember that it is just like putting a band-aid on a gaping cut. You still are going to have to learn how to parent this child when he is home.

 

I don't like your analogy: A half-day daycare is not akin to boarding school. I bristle at the idea that a mother *must* be with her young children 24 hours a day or she is somehow offloading mothering on others.

[Catwoman]

I don't like your analogy: A half-day daycare is not akin to boarding school. I bristle at the idea that a mother *must* be with her young children 24 hours a day or she is somehow offloading mothering on others.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I think putting the little one in daycare is absolutely, positively the equivalent of putting a Band-Aid on a gaping cut, but right now, I think Jane really needs that Band-Aid.

 

I don't think anyone has suggested that it's a solution to the behavior issues -- those need to be dealt with separately, and there's no question that Jane is going to need to find a way to deal more effectively with her child. We are all just trying to think of an immediate solution to the homeschooling problem that doesn't involve putting the older kids in school, and having the little one out of the house for a few hours each day could go a long way toward helping Jane feel more in control and less overwhelmed.

[nmoira]

I don't think she was trying to say that at all.

 

That's entirely possible, but that's what the analogy itself says to me, and that's all I was addressing. If you're going with family = body injury :tongue_smilie: I'd say it's more like stabilizing one limb to give you time (and presence of mind0 to deal with the others, with the absolute understanding you still have to get back to that limb. The needs of all limbs are met, but we can't work on them simultaneously.

 

I think it is quite a valid point that even if one gets breaks, there's still the rest of the time to consider and find solutions for. I'm in a different situation from Jane in that I don't have a high needs kid, but a high needs pregnancy that has me pretty dysfunctional at the moment. My mother comes and takes the girls a couple of times a week for a few hours and my DH is great about cooking when he's around in the evenings and has time, but that still means I have to learn to keep the place clean, have regular meals and parent my children at all other times.