Poll: Would you/do you take your kids out of school (yes, I know...) for vacation?

[nd293]

Family always comes first, and if there is a reason why a holiday during school time works best for the family, then that's how it goes. Obviously the needs of all family members need to be taken into account, and taking a high school student out of school might not be in their best interest, although, having homeschooled, I find it hard to see how anyone can fall behind in a subject which has a text book to go with it. If my kids can't self-teach by high school, I'll feel I've wasted my school fees!

 

That said, I wouldn't take the children out of school on a whim, or if there was a sensible holiday-time alternative. (This year the children will miss 2 days of school when we take visiting relatives away for a holiday, and dd missed one afternoon when we went away for a weekend.)

[Ellie]

But see, I'm an adult and my vacations have had to be planned around my work. I used to teach dayschool. Now I teach college. I was allowed 2 personal days during the school year . . . not enough time for a big vacation. And I am under contract to teach certain days during the college term. I don't plan vacations during this time of my responsibility. Dh is a ps counselor, so this is the way it works for us.

 

I'm not anti-vacation. This is just my personal experience as a professional. It's my priority.

 

I haven't taken my dc out of school (now our dc are split into the homeschooled and the ps'ed groups) for vacations. We plan our time together when dh and the ps dc aren't in session.

 

I'm sure there are many professions for which vacation schedules are non-negotiable.

 

That said, we haven't had any big-once-in-a-lifetime opportunities, either. We're basically homebodies. That factors in, too, I'm sure.

That works for you because that is your occupation. Most people are not educators tied to a school year. :-)

[Spy Car]

I didn't know that. Interesting. I know that it has become a big deal to pull kids out. Now I know why. Thanks! Was this always the case? I know that my parents pulled my out and it wasn't a big deal. We just had to take all our work along.

 

I think the funding has always worked this way. But what has changed is the funding is most places keeps getting cut. So good-bye Art teachers, Music programs, Librarians, PE Coaches, and many other enrichment programs. Plus bigger classes and fewer support staff. In many places budgets have been cut to the bone. So an extra $300 lost—or $120,000 lost—really hurts.

 

The "pad" that once existed in school budgets is gone, and Principals have no choice but to see unexcused absences (like pulling kids out for unscheduled vacations) as a real threat to the viablity of their schools. That is just the hard reality.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Hmm. My kids go to Lutheran school, so I pay their tuition. I don't know if they get any funding from the government nowadays. I'm thinking not. So maybe they'd be a little more open?

 

I doubt they would dig it from an education standpoint, but a private school would not have the same loss of funding issues that public schools face.

 

Bill

[PeacefulChaos]

I don't think you are evil, but I think people who have that point of view are very socialist and narrow minded. (No offense) I would not want to live my entire life inside that tiny box of "supposed to". We have friends and family all over the world. If I want to go visit them, and bring my kids, then I will and NO ONE, least of all a government run school, should have the right to tell me I can't.

 

We went to California for our 10 year anniversary. We went back to be where we first met, engaged and got married, ON OUR ANNIVERSARY DATE, which is in March, NOT during the summer. I will be d***ed if some stupid school is going to tell me to leave my child home or don't go on my anniversary trip that I have been planning since 6 months before I got married. AS if. :confused:

 

That doesn't REEK of communism/socialism to you?? (And I'm not angry at you, or trying to be mean, if it sounds that way, btw, I just get riled up on this subject ;))

 

If this is TRULY a free country, then I should be allowed complete and total control over the comings and goings of MY OWN FAMILY. Which, I do, by homeschooling and keeping my kid as far away from public school as humanly possible.

 

:lol: (And I really mean it - I don't take offense at your post.)

But no, I hadn't looked at it as being socialist or communist. I'm not seeing it as the government run school saying, 'No vacations for you!' - that would be not cool - but more as just the parents having the respect for the place that they chose to send their children. Like, they wanted their kids to go there, so they should follow the rules, kwim?

If it was a big trip, something special that couldn't be done at another time, then I think that would be different.

My grandparents had me out of school when my great-grandfather was sick - we were gone for a week or two in November, and I took schoolwork along and stuff. Again, that's a situation that I wouldn't consider a bad thing, because you have to do what you have to do for family, kwim?

 

I am glad I posted this poll, though - I seriously thought I was not in the minority on this. :D So I'm really glad I didn't post anything on FB, because I was really considering it... SO glad I came here first! :lol:

Edited August 18, 2012 by PeacefulChaos

[nukeswife]

I voted yes and have done so. My son was only in Kindy (although it was all day kindy, not half-day) and the school was fine with it as long as I let them know ahead of time.

 

My husband is military and I could see pulling my kids out if they went to PS when he was either leaving or returning from a deployment for some family time. Many wouldn't consider this a good enough reason, but then again they've never had to spend 6 months-a year at a time without that spouse/parent (even longer in other branches).

 

I know there are companies that can limit when vacations are allowed for adults, but then again adults are allowed to decide whether or not they want to apply for/work for that company. Kids really don't have a choice in what school they go to, so it really isn't a fair comparison to me.

[Farrar]

I think public schools are far too rigid about this sort of thing now when they did not used to be. I have no idea if the funding methods changed to make that the case, but I also find that funding method to be absurd. When I worked in public schools I was never told that, though it could be different now or it could be different in different states.

[Farrar]

Okay, I was curious so I googled it... I'm still not sure, but I will say that the only states specifically mentioned that hold to this formula of defunding when students are absent were California and Colorado. California was mentioned over and over in every link I saw... but not other states.

[Barb_]

I think the funding has always worked this way. But what has changed is the funding is most places keeps getting cut. So good-bye Art teachers, Music programs, Librarians, PE Coaches, and many other enrichment programs. Plus bigger classes and fewer support staff. In many places budgets have been cut to the bone. So an extra $300 lost—or $120,000 lost—really hurts.

 

The "pad" that once existed in school budgets is gone, and Principals have no choice but to see unexcused absences (like pulling kids out for unscheduled vacations) as a real threat to the viablity of their schools. That is just the hard reality.

 

Bill

 

I think this method of funding is unique to California. A google search only produced hits (mostly complaints) relating solely to California schools.

[Bootsie]

I would not take my children out of public or private school for a vacation if the main purpose is leisure. When my children were in ps, they did miss several times due to travel plans. These trips were always related to some event that we could not rearrange, such as DH or I was asked to speak at a conference. We would work to minimize the amount of school the kids missed and still participate, even if it meant taking an early morning or a late night flight. We would also make sure that they got as much school work done beforehand as possible, took other school work with them, and that we made the trip as educational as possible. We also worked to minimize the disruption to their school schedule as much as possible, e.g. giving up opportunities if they fell during final exam week.

 

As a college professor, I have students who sign up for a class and then expect to take a vacation in the middle of the semester. Last year I had one who came to see me after doing poorly on the first exam. She said that she had missed the two weeks before the exam because she had been on vacation in Hawaii. I said that I hope she had taken her book to study while she was there. Her response: "Oh, I can't afford the book."

[Barb_]

Okay, I was curious so I googled it... I'm still not sure, but I will say that the only states specifically mentioned that hold to this formula of defunding when students are absent were California and Colorado. California was mentioned over and over in every link I saw... but not other states.

 

You are too quick for my fat thumbs (iPhone, lol). Also, I saw where this changed sometime in the 90s. I knew I had never heard of such a thing and my kids have been in and out of schools over the years.

[Catwoman]

As a college professor, I have students who sign up for a class and then expect to take a vacation in the middle of the semester. Last year I had one who came to see me after doing poorly on the first exam. She said that she had missed the two weeks before the exam because she had been on vacation in Hawaii. I said that I hope she had taken her book to study while she was there. Her response: "Oh, I can't afford the book."

 

:svengo: :svengo: :svengo: :svengo:

 

Well, of course she couldn't afford the book -- do you think a trip to Hawaii is cheap??? And she probably needed a new bikini, and some shoes, and some cute dresses to wear out at night... and the girl had to eat, you know, and she needed to stay in a nice hotel, right??? Those things all cost money! ;)

[Catwoman]

I chose 'other' -- by which I mean "Yes, but with careful consideration, not exactly 'in a heartbeat.' "

 

I'd think about grade level, ease of learning, length of vacation, relative value of the experience, etc. before I reached a conclusion.

 

Really? That sounds like a lot of effort, just to decide whether or not to take a few days off from school.

 

How about if you just wanted to go to the beach for a few days, or take the kids to Disney World for a week?

 

I would never worry about "the relative value of the experience;" I'd be all about the fun. If it's a valuable educational experience, it pretty much counts as school, anyway, and if it's just plain fun, I'd think of it as a mid-semester break, a mid-winter break, a spring break. etc.

 

I can justify almost anything to myself. :D

 

It might be different if I had a child who struggled with his studies and truly needed a strict schedule and a full school year -- although a hardworking kid like that would probably deserve a surprise vacation every now and then, too!

[vonfirmath]

I missed the first week of 1st grade because my family was at Disneyland. (and I never went to K). No big deal.

 

I missed the last week and a half of 8th grade to go back with my dad to help clean out the grandparents' home after grandma died and grandpa had come to live with us and was not moving back. We arranged it ahead of time and it was, again, no problem.

[LucyStoner]

I think the funding has always worked this way.

 

In California and a couple other states, it works this way. In most states, including mine, it does not work this way at all. Schools are paid for each day that a student is enrolled, regardless of attendence unless expelled for truancy.

[SKL]

:svengo: :svengo: :svengo: :svengo:

 

Well, of course she couldn't afford the book -- do you think a trip to Hawaii is cheap??? And she probably needed a new bikini, and some shoes, and some cute dresses to wear out at night... and the girl had to eat, you know, and she needed to stay in a nice hotel, right??? Those things all cost money! ;)

 

In grad school, a friend and I signed up for a credit card that had a promo for $99 round-trip tickets to any US destination. We chose DC to LA, bought an Amtrak ticket from my city to NY to DC and home, and toured the USA for a couple of weeks. We stayed at friends' homes. We were so poor, we passed for bag ladies when we fell asleep waiting for the train in DC. LOL. But at least we had the decency to take our trip over Christmas break. We definitely spent less on the trip than we spent on our books. :lol::001_huh:

[kb44]

I did pull them out. As a ps teacher, I took vacations and days off for visitors, as well.

[WishboneDawn]

I missed the first week of 1st grade because my family was at Disneyland. (and I never went to K). No big deal.

 

I missed the last week and a half of 8th grade to go back with my dad to help clean out the grandparents' home after grandma died and grandpa had come to live with us and was not moving back. We arranged it ahead of time and it was, again, no problem.

 

I was pulled from school in April and came back sometime after it had started in Autumn two years in a row to travel across Canada with my parents. This was in the early eighties. The school was fine with it. Mom got our school work, had us do it for a couple of weeks then tucked it away to be forgotten.:)

[annandatje]

I think that joining a group means one must conform to the group's rules. Since we're not forced to send our kids to school ;), I do think that if one chooses to do so, one should generally conform to that group's (aka school's) calendar.

 

Now being in charge of our homeschool, I know exactly when I want to take vacation, and schedule the year around it. So, there's no "ditching" of school for a trip. It's all baked in. Including studies in the car to and from WDW. :auto:

 

:iagree::iagree: When all the kids were homeschooling, we traveled usually in early October. When one or more attended public school, we followed the public school's calendar.

[bolt.]

Really? That sounds like a lot of effort, just to decide whether or not to take a few days off from school.

 

How about if you just wanted to go to the beach for a few days, or take the kids to Disney World for a week?

 

I would never worry about "the relative value of the experience;" I'd be all about the fun. If it's a valuable educational experience, it pretty much counts as school, anyway, and if it's just plain fun, I'd think of it as a mid-semester break, a mid-winter break, a spring break. etc.

 

I can justify almost anything to myself. :D

 

It might be different if I had a child who struggled with his studies and truly needed a strict schedule and a full school year -- although a hardworking kid like that would probably deserve a surprise vacation every now and then, too!

Yeah, maybe I'm an over-thinker... But honestly, those are the things i think about. You may have misunderstood, though, because I totally think fun IS a type of valuable experience!

 

Plus, I'm Canadian. Disney for a week would be amazing, and a beach vacation would be heaven. Both of them would be quite an investment, and involve a ton of planning. The easy stuff is a ski weekend in the Rockies:tongue_smilie:

[Catwoman]

Yeah, maybe I'm an over-thinker... But honestly, those are the things i think about. You may have misunderstood, though, because I totally think fun IS a type of valuable experience!

 

Plus, I'm Canadian. Disney for a week would be amazing, and a beach vacation would be heaven. Both of them would be quite an investment, and involve a ton of planning. The easy stuff is a ski weekend in the Rockies:tongue_smilie:

 

Oh -- well, then -- we're completely on the same page! :thumbup:

[Laura in STL]

I voted yes, but it would depend on the child's age. K-6, I would say a week off would be acceptable if the student was doing well/keeping up with work. Also, I wouldn't do this multiple times a year. I would try to combine it with a short week due to a vacation day or teacher work days if possible. Once a student hits 7th grade I would say this is probably not going to be a good idea due to more difficult work and test schedules. If there were some special circumstances and the school would work with the family so the trip wouldn't affect grades, it might be ok with an older student. We take several trips during the school year to take advantage of lower prices and crowds, but our oldest will most likely attend a private high school in two years, so we will have to shift to summer/spring break then.

[RoundAbout]

If my kid were in school I would not be super casual with vacation days but nor would I feel strictly bound by their time table. We are a military family - my husband has deployed 5 times in 6 years, and his vacation days don't easily line up with the school calendar. I would absolutely pull my kid out of school to go on vacation when dad was leaving for 6 months or to spend quality time after he got back.

[rwjx2khsmj]

My oldest dd is attends a public school career center. I'm a lot more careful about taking her out than I was when she was in a standard B&M high school. I answered other because it would depend. If the trip was a once in a lifetime educational and experiential opportunity, yes, I'd take her out. If it was just a matter of convenience, no, I wouldn't.

[annandatje]

I think this method of funding is unique to California. A google search only produced hits (mostly complaints) relating solely to California schools.

 

My state and a couple surrounding states fund similarly to CA.

[KungFuPanda]

I'd have no issues at all doing it for K-8th Grade. I'd be hesitant to pull a high schooler unless I was certain she could catch back up in every class.

 

So, no, I don't think cheap, off-season vacations are a homeschoolers' only privilege.

[Shawndrese]

I voted yes...but if my child was older and not doing well in school then I would have to say no. :)

[Pretty in Pink]

I guess it would depend on the child and whether they were struggling academically or not. If they were doing well in their studies I wouldn't have a moment's hesitation.

[Renee in NC]

Okay, I was curious so I googled it... I'm still not sure, but I will say that the only states specifically mentioned that hold to this formula of defunding when students are absent were California and Colorado. California was mentioned over and over in every link I saw... but not other states.

 

FL's funding is determined Oct 1 and Ma 1, I believe. I know in the past NC funding was determined by average population during the first 10 days of school.

[Mama Geek]

:lol: (And I really mean it - I don't take offense at your post.)

But no, I hadn't looked at it as being socialist or communist. I'm not seeing it as the government run school saying, 'No vacations for you!' - that would be not cool - but more as just the parents having the respect for the place that they chose to send their children. Like, they wanted their kids to go there, so they should follow the rules, kwim?

If it was a big trip, something special that couldn't be done at another time, then I think that would be different. What I'm seeing with increasing frequency is a particular company (with not very many employees, so it isn't like they couldn't do it another time) taking their employees and families to the beach for a week during the school year as a 'retreat'. It irks me for several reasons, but one of the biggest is that those with kids in school are just choosing to take them out to go hang out at the beach - which is only a few hours away. I just feel like that particular thing is... idk... not right. :D

My grandparents had me out of school when my great-grandfather was sick - we were gone for a week or two in November, and I took schoolwork along and stuff. Again, that's a situation that I wouldn't consider a bad thing, because you have to do what you have to do for family, kwim?

 

I am glad I posted this poll, though - I seriously thought I was not in the minority on this. :D So I'm really glad I didn't post anything on FB, because I was really considering it... SO glad I came here first! :lol:

 

You are probably in the minority here because so many homeschool or have at least some homeschooling mindset. If your facebook friends are more public schoolers you would probably not be in the minority.

[creekland]

When you are a student, your job is to go to school. If you choose to attend a public or private school, the school has prescribed vacation times, you have to follow the prescribed schedule it is one of the things you have to accept when you enroll in school.

 

When you homeschool you get to choose when you go to school and when you vacation, that is one of the advantages. If you enroll in ps you give that up.

 

 

 

Schools have rules for people who wish to take vacations during the school year. At our school, MANY people follow these rules. We have to fill out a pre-arranged absence form and get it approved (not difficult). By pulling kids out for a vacation - even when we took the month off - we were choosing to follow the rules and had no problem.

 

Kids often learn far more on vacation - or in general by traveling - than they do just learning from books. My kids were always at or near the top of their class. Taking our 1 week to 1 month vacations never hurt them academically and it was always done within the rules.

 

 

 

I am glad I posted this poll, though - I seriously thought I was not in the minority on this. :D So I'm really glad I didn't post anything on FB, because I was really considering it... SO glad I came here first! :lol:

 

Based upon the number of kids who take pre-arranged absences, I'm pretty sure you're in the minority for ps folks. I sign pre-arranged absence forms often, weekly at least and sometimes daily near popular vacation times (winter) - and I'm just a substitute teacher... ;)

 

The school cares. In addition to the obvious gaps in learning that happen when children miss school, in most districts schools are funded on a daily attendance basis. A week "off" costs a school around $300 (depending).

 

Bill

 

This certainly DOESN'T happen where I work.

 

Okay, I was curious so I googled it... I'm still not sure, but I will say that the only states specifically mentioned that hold to this formula of defunding when students are absent were California and Colorado. California was mentioned over and over in every link I saw... but not other states.

 

Thanks for saving me some work! CA is in its own world - as usual. ;)

 

I wonder how many people are aware that a decent number of TEACHERS use their vacation days to take a week off during the school year... I get several jobs from the math/science dept that way. Usually they are coordinating with their spouse who is not in education and has a less variable schedule. Sometimes they do it "just because." One math teacher went big game hunting on his own - the week picked due to the hunting season where he wanted to go. His classes certainly didn't suffer when I was there. (BUT I'll also admit that NOT all subs do well teaching in place of the regular teacher... some teachers where I work pick their vacation based upon whether I can be in for them or not - but this isn't always the case - esp outside math/science.)

[Heather in Neverland]

The school cares. In addition to the obvious gaps in learning that happen when children miss school, in most districts schools are funded on a daily attendance basis. A week "off" costs a school around $300 (depending).

 

At a school with 400 children, if everyone misses a week for unscheduled "vacations" then the school is out $120,000. And that does not include the funding lost to legitimate absences. These sorts of things blow a hole in a school's budget. I know. I worked on a committe at our school and saw how much absences impact the finances of a school. It hurts. Big time!

 

Bill

 

Yes, the school cares.

 

When your child misses a week of school it puts an added burden on the teacher to provide make-up work and make sure your child is caught up after they return. And if the things you miss include projects or group assignments you have now hurt the group and made it very difficult for the teacher to recreate the learning that went on.

 

If you miss a week at my school you miss A LOT. If your child can easily miss a week at their school and not miss out on much learning then you need to change schools.

 

Homeschooling is the perfect alternative for people who want to call their own schedule. Those who join group education need to follow the rules of the group.

 

 

.

.

[Heather in Neverland]

 

 

I wonder how many people are aware that a decent number of TEACHERS use their vacation days to take a week off during the school year... I get several jobs from the math/science dept that way. Usually they are coordinating with their spouse who is not in education and has a less variable schedule. Sometimes they do it "just because." One math teacher went big game hunting on his own - the week picked due to the hunting season where he wanted to go. His classes certainly didn't suffer when I was there. (BUT I'll also admit that NOT all subs do well teaching in place of the regular teacher... some teachers where I work pick their vacation based upon whether I can be in for them or not - but this isn't always the case - esp outside math/science.)

 

 

If you did this at my school you would be fired. I have worked in 6 different school districts and ALL of them had rules against this. If you were gone more than two days for illness you had to produce a doctor's note and if you took your sick or personal days and went on vacation and they found out you were fired.

 

 

.

[gingersmom]

Yes, the school cares.

 

When your child misses a week of school it puts an added burden on the teacher to provide make-up work and make sure your child is caught up after they return. And if the things you miss include projects or group assignments you have now hurt the group and made it very difficult for the teacher to recreate the learning that went on.

 

If you miss a week at my school you miss A LOT. If your child can easily miss a week at their school and not miss out on much learning then you need to change schools.

 

Homeschooling is the perfect alternative for people who want to call their own schedule. Those who join group education need to follow the rules of the group.

 

 

.

.

 

:iagree:

 

My parents pulled me out of school to go on vacation. I always thought it was odd. They even did it in high school.

[Night Elf]

I wouldn't do it for just any vacation, but I have done it once because of a special occasion. DH was given an award by HP and the gathering was at Disney World. He had a couple of dinners and a ceremony at night, but the days were free for families to go to the parks. I just couldn't stand the thought of my oldest dd missing out on that so I got permission from her dad to take her. She missed 4 days of school so her teachers gave her assigned homework for while we were gone. It wasn't that much and it was a compromise I was willing to live with considering we had our whole family together at such a fun place as Disney.

[creekland]

If you did this at my school you would be fired. I have worked in 6 different school districts and ALL of them had rules against this. If you were gone more than two days for illness you had to produce a doctor's note and if you took your sick or personal days and went on vacation and they found out you were fired.

 

 

.

 

It's perfectly ok here and done often.

 

IME teachers don't mind when students go on trips IF they keep up on their work. Many end up ahead of where the class is as they don't get slowed down like a class can. As I said before, my youngest son's 4th grade teacher used him as an on the spot reporter when we were in Volcanoes NP (and they were studying volcanoes in class).

 

Teachers DO mind if the student returns having done nothing.

 

When I was working a long term maternity leave job last year (8th grade - algebra) one student went to Mexico for a month. She returned ahead of the class and kept her standing at the top of the class once she took the tests she had missed.

 

There was no problem aside from a few minutes pulling together some work for her. It was hardly a hardship.

 

If the same student had done NOTHING for work, then things would change. This happens sometimes when kids take a week off. It's up to them to catch up at that point. If they don't, it will hurt their grade, so I guess my advice to parents is to make sure they keep up.

[Laura Corin]

The key for me is not so much the actual time missed but the attitude that the parents are displaying towards school. I want my boys to take learning seriously, so we don't skip school.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

 

That doesn't REEK of communism/socialism to you?? (And I'm not angry at you, or trying to be mean, if it sounds that way, btw, I just get riled up on this subject ;)).

 

I don't think anyone is debating whether schools should ban vacations during term time. That's a different question and might (possibly) be characterised as the activity of an over-interfering state. This is about individual choice: I choose not to take my children out of school during the school year (and, frankly, think a little less of those who do otherwise) because it is a symbol of the seriousness with which I view their education. Nothing socialist about that.

 

Laura (darned European 'socialist')

[Heather in Neverland]

I don't think anyone is debating whether schools should ban vacations during term time. That's a different question and might (possibly) be characterised as the activity of an over-interfering state. This is about individual choice: I choose not to take my children out of school during the school year (and, frankly, think a little less of those who do otherwise) because it is a symbol of the seriousness with which I view their education. Nothing socialist about that.

 

Laura (darned European 'socialist')

 

:iagree:

[KarenC]

If I had strong students, I would for 5th grade and below. For 6th grade or older, no I would not.

 

Karen

[Pawz4me]

I haven't read any of the other replies, so I'm probably repeating something, but here goes --

 

I'm in the "obligatory others" camp. When my boys were in public school we did occasionally take them out for an educational vacation or event. But both of them were academically advanced, so unlikely at all to miss anything they didn't already know. We always cleared it ahead of time with their teachers, and none of them ever had the slightest hesitation in okaying it. If either of our boys had struggled or even been average academically I doubt we would have allowed them to miss school for anything other than an illness or other very legitimate reason.

[Cinder]

I wouldn't do it for just any vacation, but I have done it once because of a special occasion.

 

I voted other. For the most part I'd say no skipping school. But if it was a unique situation like Beth describes I would allow it. When my sons were homeschooled we took vacations in the fall. Once they started attending a b&m school we moved our vacation time to match their schedule. Fortunately for us the school eventually switched to a schedule that takes a week off in early fall.

 

I was allowed to miss a week of school in 10th grade because of a unique vacation opportunity. I had to get approval from each of my teachers before I was permitted to miss school with an excused absence. This was the only time I or any of my siblings missed school for a vacation.

 

ETA: At my school an excused absence meant you could make up the work and get full credit; an unexcused absence meant you automatically received a zero on any homework due or tests given.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Cinder

[JennyD]

Communism? I don't think anyone's talking about nationalizing factories here.

 

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a school district to say that a condition of a parent using free, taxpayer-funded schools to educate their child is that you must make a concerted effort to send them during the 180 days per year that school is in session. Especially if taxpayers want to do things like, say, hold teachers and administrators personally accountable for student performance.

 

I teach at a university and students occasionally inform me that they will be missing a week or so of class for a reason that seems frivolous to me. (I find it bizarre that they actually tell me this, by the way. Don't TELL the professor that you're missing class because you're going to someone's destination wedding! Just keep quiet and get the notes from someone else. I mean, come on.) However, they are adults, and while I don't penalize them for missing class I also feel no obligation whatsoever to help them make up the missing material, and if they do poorly on the exam, well, that's not my problem. I am not sure that an elementary or secondary school teacher really has that same luxury,

 

That said, one of the reasons that I do not use the public schools to educate my child, and instead use one of the perfectly legal alternatives (i.e., homeschooling), is because I would personally find the school schedule impossibly restrictive and absolutely love being able to set our own schedule.

[creekland]

The key for me is not so much the actual time missed but the attitude that the parents are displaying towards school. I want my boys to take learning seriously, so we don't skip school.

 

Laura

 

Actually, I think for many of us who do it we realize the value of education outside the classroom as much as in it. Pretty much without exception, the students who seem to have the best overall education also travel. If their folks can plan that travel within school vacations, fine, but not everyone can or chooses to do so.

 

I, personally, think my son AT Volcanoes NP learned a bit more about volcanoes than his book-learning in the school counterparts. Of course, we've also been to other volcanoes too (MT St Helens, Lassen, etc).

 

We take learning VERY seriously in our household. I just don't feel being in school every day it is open is the be all, end all of learning. My kids are considered geniuses among their friends. Are they more academically talented? I'm not so sure, but they certainly have had better opportunities. Our trips are a big part of that. ;)

[BamaTanya]

I never had a teacher growing up who took off a week. The longest a teacher I ever knew was away was a day. I am pretty sure it would have been heavily frowned upon.

 

I'll say I don't particularly like the rigidness of the schedule, but that's a big reason I homeschool. I understand it though.

 

I only took a day at a time (we were allowed two personal days). Once was to work on my grad school research and the other was to accompany my preschool (public school -- same school where I worked) dd on a field trip. On that trip a chaperone was required for each student. When dd had a another trip, her aunt went with her.

 

Dh never takes personal days. He used to teach high school students with emotional disorders and had paraprofessionals assigned in his classes. Even so, when he would return from system-mandated workshops/meetings, he would find that some of his students would have been suspended or expelled during his absence. He hated having to be away from his job because it was bad for his students.

 

I think teachers here would be fired for using sick days for vacations. I do know of a teacher who missed work because of a relative's death, and her pay was docked those days as it was not "immediate" family. :001_huh:

 

I'm not saying I agree with these policies, but I abide(d) by them.

 

I think I'm modeling for my dc and my (former) students the value of education and professionalism.

[catz]

Actually, I think for many of us who do it we realize the value of education outside the classroom as much as in it. Pretty much without exception, the students who seem to have the best overall education also travel. If their folks can plan that travel within school vacations, fine, but not everyone can or chooses to do so.

 

I, personally, think my son AT Volcanoes NP learned a bit more about volcanoes than his book-learning in the school counterparts. Of course, we've also been to other volcanoes too (MT St Helens, Lassen, etc).

 

We take learning VERY seriously in our household. I just don't feel being in school every day it is open is the be all, end all of learning. My kids are considered geniuses among their friends. Are they more academically talented? I'm not so sure, but they certainly have had better opportunities. Our trips are a big part of that. ;)

 

:iagree: my oldest went to 2 years of PS. The first year the school told us and put in writing that no vacations were to be taken while chool was in session. This was in kindergarten. I obeyed that rule in kindergarten but watched many other families travel. In the mean time, my particular child learned almost nothing in the classroom. I did pull him a few times in 1 st grade.

 

As homeschoolers, we road trip pretty regularly and I always fee like those trips give the kids huge leaps in geography, histor, science,etc. even though we aren't packing things that look like curriculum. We tend to chose vacations that are heavy on museums, historic sites, national parks, etc.

[BamaTanya]

Communism? I don't think anyone's talking about nationalizing factories here.

 

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a school district to say that a condition of a parent using free, taxpayer-funded schools to educate their child is that you must make a concerted effort to send them during the 180 days per year that school is in session. Especially if taxpayers want to do things like, say, hold teachers and administrators personally accountable for student performance.

 

I teach at a university and students occasionally inform me that they will be missing a week or so of class for a reason that seems frivolous to me. (I find it bizarre that they actually tell me this, by the way. Don't TELL the professor that you're missing class because you're going to someone's destination wedding! Just keep quiet and get the notes from someone else. I mean, come on.) However, they are adults, and while I don't penalize them for missing class I also feel no obligation whatsoever to help them make up the missing material, and if they do poorly on the exam, well, that's not my problem. I am not sure that an elementary or secondary school teacher really has that same luxury,

 

 

 

:iagree:

For my college students, it really is up to them. If they can (on their own!) make the grades despite absences, I don't blame them. However, we do in class activities that cannot be made up. So, if you have a 99 avg and miss a 10 point activity, it really won't matter.

 

When I taught first grade, I would have to read tests to the students. Math word problems, science questions, listening comprehension, etc. Helping students make up work for illness, etc took up a lot of my time! In class learning time! We were required to have 10 test grades (or equivalent) per quarter for each subject: English, reading, social studies, spelling . . . Sure, some students could have passed (even aced) those tests while missing for a vacation, but that took extra time from helping students who needed more attention.

 

Many of them could not.

 

One year chicken pox went through our school. Often I had 7+ students out. It was more than a month before I had another perfect attendance day. When you're trying to get 33 (or 25 or 18) students ready for end of quarter tests, days absent DO make a big deal.

Edited August 17, 2012 by BamaTanya

[Wheres Toto]

Okay, I was curious so I googled it... I'm still not sure, but I will say that the only states specifically mentioned that hold to this formula of defunding when students are absent were California and Colorado. California was mentioned over and over in every link I saw... but not other states.

 

NJ seems to go by attendance on October 15th. But, our schools also get the majority of their funding through property taxes so it may not make as much of a difference anyway.

 

I took my oldest out in elementary school. Not every year and not more than one week a year, if we had an unusual opportunity. She was always able to get her work ahead of time and I did make her complete it while we were away. I never had a school or a teacher have any problem with it at all.

 

Now, we had the chance to go to Mardi Gras this past February. DD was a senior in high school taking a lot of honors and AP classes. There's no way I would have let her take a week off at that point. Lucky for her Mardi Gras just happened to fall during her mid-winter break.

[FaithManor]

Disneyland or Hershey Park type vacation - NO!

 

To go see a dying relative or travel that is an educational opportunity, YES!

 

If 4-H kids did not take time off from school here in Michigan, they would not be able to participate in MANY very worthwhile educational programs including Capitol Days in which they spend time with state representatives, are allowed on the House Floor, help draft a resolution, meet the governor, etc. I put more value on that then the homework they'll be given during the Thursday and Friday they miss at the public school.

 

There is National Geographic scientist/journalist who now homeschools his children (I posted about it a couple of years ago with a link to the article he wrote) because he had an AMAZING opportunity to take his children overseas for a month and the educational opportunities they were going to have while there were truly extraordinary. He and his wife tried to make arrangements with the school to get their children's assignments ahead of time. They had every intention of hitting the books each day with their kids so they wouldn't get behind. Nothing doing! They'd be truant and suffer the consequences. The principal felt there was nothing of substance that could be learned from making such a trip! :glare: Well, that attitude was the impetus for the family to choose to homeschool so their children could travel with them ALL the time and become global students - good for them.

 

The school year is not sancrosanct. There are equally as important educational and sometime FAR MORE important oportunities that can pop up and the question is do we really as parents allow the school district to completely dictate 9 months every year for 13 years or do we recognize that the bureaucracy should not be allowed such power in any child's life that the opportunity to see government at work, or make a presentation in Washington D.C. to 4-H National Council, or complete the NASA Student Launch Initiative (college level aerospace engineering project that high schoolers can do under the directive of NASA engineers - they use skype for this - 180 hrs. of work during the school yr. culminating in demonstrations April 17th - 21st, an accomplishment of difficulty far beyond anything American high schools have to offer and ending with personal recommendations from NASA engineers AND college scouts hanging around looking for students to offer scholarships to), or the TARC National Finals May 10-13th (again having to miss some school) where the top 10 finishers earn scholarship money and prizes and the first place team gets an all expense paid trip to the International Air Show in Europe...again HUGE in terms of college, or........

 

Nope, there is nothing any of our local high schools offer that can equal these experiences. And yes, when we take the kids to TARC (team comprises public, private, and home schooled students) we stay out extra days and go to the Smithsonian, or the monuments, or the zoo, or....you get the picture.

 

But, except for summer camping trips, we've never taken typical American vacations, neither did my folks. Every trip has been to see something or experience something important. National Parks (try getting into those in the summers to camp...it's best to go in autumn after school starts), battlefields for reenactments, museums, etc....whenever dad could get away from his business which was never summer because that's when houses are typically being built and he's busy putting in heating systems and conferring with contractors over architectural plans. We routinely traveled through the school year.

 

We took DD out of school for a week of space camp when she was in the Lutheran School. They were thrilled and she gave a presentation when she returned. She won the ONLY "Right Stuff Award" given that entire calendar year at space camp. Though she earned it as a middle schooler, the recommendation she got with her award still earned her a scholarship at every college she applied to so it was well worth the time off from school.

 

As for fun-fun vacations, I would normally poo-poo that idea. However, if my child were having a physical or emotional problem and needed a break from school and I couldn't change the school they attend or homeschool, then I would definitely consider it if I thought it would make things better for my child by giving them a break from the stress.

 

Oh, and I do know parents who are so sick of the MEAPS (Michigan achievement tests) and the HORRIBLE pressure the teachers put on them - every year there is a big school assembly in which the principal announces to the students that if they underperform, teachers will lose their jobs and it's all the students' faults and they should be ashamed of themselves if that happens :glare: - that they plan fun-fun vacation for the week of the MEAPS. The schools do not like it, but if they are going to mentally abuse kids, then they will have to take their lumps for doing it! I know several kids who go to Disneyworld each year during MEAPS.

 

Faith

[Hwin]

The school cares. In addition to the obvious gaps in learning that happen when children miss school, in most districts schools are funded on a daily attendance basis. A week "off" costs a school around $300 (depending).

 

At a school with 400 children, if everyone misses a week for unscheduled "vacations" then the school is out $120,000. And that does not include the funding lost to legitimate absences. These sorts of things blow a hole in a school's budget. I know. I worked on a committe at our school and saw how much absences impact the finances of a school. It hurts. Big time!

 

Bill

 

That sounds devastating (although it seems unlikely that the worst case scenario would ever occur), but in my hypothetical situation where I am sending my child to PS, I am going on a fabulous vacation so I'm afraid my answer stands.

 

I suppose my views on this reflect the sort of homeschooler I am. Hmm.