I am so mad about the kids' religion section in B&N...

[Mom to Aly]

They just put one up, in plain view, and it has one Jewish Bible, and the rest is all Christian. I asked to speak to a manager, and asked why there was nothing from other religions, and she said "What other religions", like there were no others! So I said, "Hinduism, Buddhism, anything else", and she said, "Well, no one else would buy those!".

 

We went through a whole long thing, she said she was looking up every available Hindu book for kids, and pulled up a list--the least expensive was $16.95, most were that to $30, one was $75, and she said they just wouldn't sell.

 

So, I thought about it last night, went back today, and went to talk to someone else, a really nice guy who works there. I started telling him my prob with it, basically, it should be stocked with other books, or at least some on world religion, or be retitled "Christianity", and he said, "Hold on,", and pulled up a whole bunch of other books on Hinduism for kids that were priced much lower. He said she must have put in a min price of $16.95, so that they would all look expensive.

 

Anyway, I'm really mad! I mean, I do live in the Bible Belt, and do have a lot of probs here, not being a Christian (I am Hindu), especially my daughter, and the way she is treated by some kids who are Christian, and I feel this is really not acceptable. I am going to call corporate and see if they will do anything about the section, although I don't know if I will say anything about the manager. Usually I would go off, but I am a single mom, and keep thinking, although what she did is wrong, what if she is, and she has someone to support...

 

Anyway, does anyone out there see my point? I'd love to hear from anyone who understands. It gets really lonely sometimes, living in what seems a very "Christian" world, when you are not one. I grew up in NY, and never really felt this way, although I was often different, but not like here, where people ask you all the time, and really go at you about your religion all the time. It is quite exhausting and I am just too, too tired of it.

[nukeswife]

I think you were totally in the right. They shouldn't label the section "religion" unless they are willing to be encompassing of all religions. I think the title of Christianity would have been better. I was raised a Christian but am not practicing and I'm still in a personal search for what I believe. Where I live that's not the norm, especially for homeschoolers. We've been unable to find a co-op or any other groups to join because all of them in our area want you to sign a statement of faith and we're not willing to do it.

 

Anyway, just wanted to say though my situation is different I have an idea of how you feel and would have done the same thing.

[newbie]

They just put one up, in plain view, and it has one Jewish Bible, and the rest is all Christian. I asked to speak to a manager, and asked why there was nothing from other religions, and she said "What other religions", like there were no others! So I said, "Hinduism, Buddhism, anything else", and she said, "Well, no one else would buy those!".

 

We went through a whole long thing, she said she was looking up every available Hindu book for kids, and pulled up a list--the least expensive was $16.95, most were that to $30, one was $75, and she said they just wouldn't sell.

 

So, I thought about it last night, went back today, and went to talk to someone else, a really nice guy who works there. I started telling him my prob with it, basically, it should be stocked with other books, or at least some on world religion, or be retitled "Christianity", and he said, "Hold on,", and pulled up a whole bunch of other books on Hinduism for kids that were priced much lower. He said she must have put in a min price of $16.95, so that they would all look expensive.

 

Anyway, I'm really mad! I mean, I do live in the Bible Belt, and do have a lot of probs here, not being a Christian (I am Hindu), especially my daughter, and the way she is treated by some kids who are Christian, and I feel this is really not acceptable. I am going to call corporate and see if they will do anything about the section, although I don't know if I will say anything about the manager. Usually I would go off, but I am a single mom, and keep thinking, although what she did is wrong, what if she is, and she has someone to support...

 

Anyway, does anyone out there see my point? I'd love to hear from anyone who understands. It gets really lonely sometimes, living in what seems a very "Christian" world, when you are not one. I grew up in NY, and never really felt this way, although I was often different, but not like here, where people ask you all the time, and really go at you about your religion all the time. It is quite exhausting and I am just too, too tired of it.

 

Freaky, I was listening to radio and the song "You are not alone", by MJ is playing. He is right, you are not alone.

It should be a broad microcosm at BN. I am Christian, but I believe there is one truth, like many other religions. I studied religion in college and it sheds a whole new light on everything. Your dd should not feel castigated at her age. It should be a non issue. And yes, I think you should make your message clear to BN. You are a consumer, you go girl.

 

Good luck,

Jet

[Night Elf]

I think you should contact them as well. And I would include the conversation about the manager. It doesn't matter if she might need the job, she wasn't doing the job properly if she was deceiving you in any way.

[Kathleen in VA]

Come to my Border's Books - they've got it all. :) You are right about the label - it should be Christianity if that is all they have.

[snickelfritz]

It IS mostly Christian. There are occasional other books. The book "Faith Like Mine" (I think it's called) is sometimes there. It gives an overview of various religions. I can't honestly tell you if I've seen a Hindu book, since I haven't been looking for one.

 

While I am Christian, I don't honestly like their selection of those books either. I usually buy faith type books from a religious book store. B&N just doesn't offer a very good variety, which I think gets back to them stocking what they can sell.

[elegantlion]

Our bookstore has a section of religion and chrisitianity is marked separately. They have several non-christian religious items. I too would ask, and then ask for your educators discount.

[bkpan]

They are simply a business and their job is to sell books. As you said yourself, you often feel as if you are alone in your area, and you probably mostly are. If you are in the Bible belt, then a book on Hinduism, or others, may sit on their shelf or never sell.

 

So, I understand the bookstore's perspective. Of course, you can order from them online in the store any of the titles. Thank goodness we have the library to search for more diversity of subjects.

 

As to the manager's behavior, that is really odd. If you truly believed that she lied to you then I would let corporate know. That is not appropriate under any circumstances.

 

Kim

[Greta]

I have noticed the same thing at many bookstores. I am Buddhist, and I am always disappointed to see there is nothing on Buddhism in the "religion" area of the kids' section. Good for you for bringing it to the manager's attention! I've never done that, and really we all should or it will never change.

[bettyandbob]

my b&n has mostly Christian books, but it does have other religions (Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism) represented. It could be more evenly distributed, but there is a variety. I'm in the DC metro area, where a huge mix of people live.

 

Now, just down the street at Books A Million, it says Christian and they do not stock books for other religions very well at all.

 

From a business perspective the manager has to evaluate every inch of shelf space and compare it to the shopping demographic. If the the manager stocked an equal number of Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist books and the Christian books kept selling out while one a year one Buddhist book left the shelf, the manager has to rethink how he is allocating the shelf space. I know it would be nice for everyone to be equally represented, but if the buying public is demanding more of one thing the store will give more shelf space to that demographic. That does not mean that the minority should be totally ignored.

[Jen500]

I started telling him my prob with it, basically, it should be stocked with other books, or at least some on world religion, or be retitled "Christianity", and he said, "Hold on,", and pulled up a whole bunch of other books on Hinduism for kids that were priced much lower.

 

.

 

I agree...if they are really only going to stock books from one religion they should label it more accurately.

[Peek a Boo]

While I am Christian, I don't honestly like their selection of those books either. I usually buy faith type books from a religious book store. B&N just doesn't offer a very good variety, which I think gets back to them stocking what they can sell.

 

I totally agree w/ this!!

 

I do think it's probably MOSTLY economics, but I'd still encourage you to call and complain. And if/when they DO stock some books that fit your bill, make sure you buy them.... and say that you were driven to buy it by the PLACEMENT of the book ;)

[Kelli in TN]

oops

[elizabeth]

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3614/is_200507/ai_n14683834/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1 print this and send to the witless manager . I majored in philosophy and helped my local bookstore expand and correctly place materials . Often it is a matter of judgment but on the other hand the superstores do not give much room to the managers about what to sell. Personally, it is offensive and short sighted especially in what might be called the bible belt. Many missionaries do spend a great deal of time learning and teaching their youngsters about the faith of those who are not christian-the goal is conversion but they do not and should not remain ignorant of those they are purportedly serving.The list of books may be just what the manager needs to have a table of world religions-one never knows. Good luck on expanding the horizons and pushing the envelope it may bring wonderful results and an expanded section in the bookshop.

[nutmeg]

They are simply a business and their job is to sell books....Thank goodness we have the library to search for more diversity of subjects.

:iagree: That was my thoughts as well.

 

I took my list in to B&N last week, and they only had 1 of the 16 books I was looking for. These were not texts, just chapter and non-fiction books. Fortunately, they ordered everything for me, and I was able to use my educator's discount and $90 in gift cards. :lol:

 

I would, however, expect the library to have a great variety of book available.

[Karenciavo]

Why does this have to become a Christian/Bible Belt issue? You are making a lot of assumptions about that original clerk, wow, you think she could just be, I don't know, incompetent?

[*anj*]

 

While I am Christian, I don't honestly like their selection of those books either. I usually buy faith type books from a religious book store. B&N just doesn't offer a very good variety, which I think gets back to them stocking what they can sell.

 

I agree with this.

I buy those books in other places, not B&N. I wouldn't even bother with most of the "Christian" books for kids that they sell there.

 

And not to hijack, but B&N is annoying in general, because they don't even carry a good (IMNSHO) selection of fiction for kids. Lotsa garbagio back there.

 

Oh, and I agree with Karen regarding the first clerk. Only she can tell you why she gave you incorrect information. Maybe she's incompetent. Maybe she has pms and felt distracted. Maybe...maybe...maybe...who knows?

[battlemaiden]

They are simply a business and their job is to sell books. As you said yourself, you often feel as if you are alone in your area, and you probably mostly are. If you are in the Bible belt, then a book on Hinduism, or others, may sit on their shelf or never sell.

 

So, I understand the bookstore's perspective. Of course, you can order from them online in the store any of the titles. Thank goodness we have the library to search for more diversity of subjects.

 

As to the manager's behavior, that is really odd. If you truly believed that she lied to you then I would let corporate know. That is not appropriate under any circumstances.

 

Kim

 

I was thinking the same thing. They are a business.

 

Am I suppose to rant when B&N doesn't carry books on coping with military deployments or large family logistics? I just know that I am a minority and a mainstream bookstore isn't the place to find it.

 

Have you tried Amazon.com?

[Lisawa]

I'm very surprised... :001_huh:maybe its where you are?? our local B&N has many different sections for religion/s.... Christianity has a section and also eastern Religions and even other life styles......

 

B&N is not a store to sensor or leave something off the shelf..... I had an issue with a magazine with a naked woman on the front cover right at the front counter in birds eye view of any little one standing with their parents at the check out counter.... I asked if they could put it in a more appropriate spot....They refused to put it back in the magazine section when I asked because of sensor ship. :confused:

[tibbyl]

One only has to google "Wyatt Bunker" and "Gandhi" to glean an insight on the attitude towards religious diversity in the South. Wyatt and company fortunately failed (so far) in their efforts to instill Bible classes in Tennessee public schools. They were upset with the legal alternative of offering true indoctrination-free comparative religion classes in TN public high schools.

 

“It’s just altogether a bad idea to teach Hinduism, Buddhism, and voodoo and whatever else in our schools,†declared board member Wyatt Bunker. The next day Bunker told the Commercial Appeal, “If they don’t want God in our schools, then we’re not going to have Gandhi in our schools.â€

 

Bunker is one of Shelby County, Tennessee's good ole boys. He is a longtime politician, and the above quote was made when he was serving on school board. Actually, such attitudes and ignorant displays are tolerated and even encouraged throughout this area. Bunker is highly respected and admired among his many followers. This mindset is even more prevalent in the rural areas.

 

TibbyL

A Comical Appeal Reader

A Shelby County TN Public School Parent

[dangermom]

Well, I totally see where you're coming from. I'd be mad too. (I usually find our local B&N children's religion section to be pretty insipid, though I think it's better stocked than that.) For one thing, I already know a lot about our own faith, and what I would be looking for at a general bookstore would be books about other religions to teach my kid about them. Actually, come to think of it, I wouldn't trust B&N to stock an accurate children's book about my own religious denomination anyhow.

 

It probably is mostly economics, with a dollop of ignorance thrown in. It's true that they aren't going to stock something they don't already think is going to sell pretty fast, and children's religion probably doesn't move a whole lot of books in the first place.

 

Perhaps your library will have a better selection--and if it doesn't, you can tell the children's librarian and ask her to improve that part of the collection. That should be part of her job, unlike a bookstore that's looking at the bottom line.

[Colleen]

I do understand your viewpoint. Religious studies certainly do go well beyond Christianity; in that respect, the "Religion" section you've described is mislabeled. I'd address that issue, as well as the manner in which the female clerk responded, when you speak with someone who has more authority.

 

Having said that, I think you need to put your complaint in context. America may be a pluralistic society, but it's very much a Christian culture ~ even in areas far more diverse than the "Bible belt". According the the CIA World Factbook, a 2007 breakdown of the U.S. population by religion put mainstream Christians (Protestant and Roman Catholic) at roughly 75% versus less than 1% of Buddhist adherents. No wonder you get lonely! Just as I'd feel lonely in, say, India, where less than 2.5% of the population professes my faith.

 

As others have pointed out, economics drives what's on a store's shelves. Big box stores like B&N thrive off of the masses; they're bound to go in for whatever's maintstream. It's unrealistic to expect a store with a mainstream business plan to stock items that represent a sliver of the population.

 

Now, please understand. I am not assuming that people of one faith are incapable and unwilling to purchase books relating to another faith. Nor am I suggesting that you not express your view and concerns to any owner/manager of a business you frequent, if that business isn't meeting your needs as a customer. I am suggesting that rather than chalk this up as one more negative about the area in which you live, you consider the economic reality of a store's business decisions. If the folks at B&N were flat-out unwilling to order the books you're seeking, that would be a whole 'nother story. But, I'm sure, that's not the case. They aren't discriminating against you; they'll fill your order. The fact that they don't have it "on demand" (e.g. on the shelf), though, is not necessarily evidence of narrow-mindedness, but of economics and statistical realities.

[Soph the vet]

I do understand your viewpoint. Religious studies certainly do go well beyond Christianity; in that respect, the "Religion" section you've described is mislabeled. I'd address that issue, as well as the manner in which the female clerk responded, when you speak with someone who has more authority.

 

Having said that, I think you need to put your complaint in context. America may be a pluralistic society, but it's very much a Christian culture ~ even in areas far more diverse than the "Bible belt". According the the CIA World Factbook, a 2007 breakdown of the U.S. population by religion put mainstream Christians (Protestant and Roman Catholic) at roughly 75% versus less than 1% of Buddhist adherents. No wonder you get lonely! Just as I'd feel lonely in, say, India, where less than 2.5% of the population professes my faith.

 

As others have pointed out, economics drives what's on a store's shelves. Big box stores like B&N thrive off of the masses; they're bound to go in for whatever's maintstream. It's unrealistic to expect a store with a mainstream business plan to stock items that represent a sliver of the population.

 

Now, please understand. I am not assuming that people of one faith are incapable and unwilling to purchase books relating to another faith. Nor am I suggesting that you not express your view and concerns to any owner/manager of a business you frequent, if that business isn't meeting your needs as a customer. I am suggesting that rather than chalk this up as one more negative about the area in which you live, you consider the economic reality of a store's business decisions. If the folks at B&N were flat-out unwilling to order the books you're seeking, that would be a whole 'nother story. But, I'm sure, that's not the case. They aren't discriminating against you; they'll fill your order. The fact that they don't have it "on demand" (e.g. on the shelf), though, is not necessarily evidence of narrow-mindedness, but of economics and statistical realities.

:iagree: Colleen said it before I could.

[Kelli in TN]

I do understand your viewpoint. Religious studies certainly do go well beyond Christianity; in that respect, the "Religion" section you've described is mislabeled. I'd address that issue, as well as the manner in which the female clerk responded, when you speak with someone who has more authority.

 

Having said that, I think you need to put your complaint in context. America may be a pluralistic society, but it's very much a Christian culture ~ even in areas far more diverse than the "Bible belt". According the the CIA World Factbook, a 2007 breakdown of the U.S. population by religion put mainstream Christians (Protestant and Roman Catholic) at roughly 75% versus less than 1% of Buddhist adherents. No wonder you get lonely! Just as I'd feel lonely in, say, India, where less than 2.5% of the population professes my faith.

 

As others have pointed out, economics drives what's on a store's shelves. Big box stores like B&N thrive off of the masses; they're bound to go in for whatever's maintstream. It's unrealistic to expect a store with a mainstream business plan to stock items that represent a sliver of the population.

 

Now, please understand. I am not assuming that people of one faith are incapable and unwilling to purchase books relating to another faith. Nor am I suggesting that you not express your view and concerns to any owner/manager of a business you frequent, if that business isn't meeting your needs as a customer. I am suggesting that rather than chalk this up as one more negative about the area in which you live, you consider the economic reality of a store's business decisions. If the folks at B&N were flat-out unwilling to order the books you're seeking, that would be a whole 'nother story. But, I'm sure, that's not the case. They aren't discriminating against you; they'll fill your order. The fact that they don't have it "on demand" (e.g. on the shelf), though, is not necessarily evidence of narrow-mindedness, but of economics and statistical realities.

 

I think you said it best, Colleen. The stores only have so much shelf space, they have to stock the books that are the most likely to sell.

[Michele B]

Labeling it Christianity doesn't always help. I have been to mainstream bookstores where there are anti-catholic books in the Christian section. But I agree it is based on economics. Whatever sells or is requested.

 

Michele

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Why does this have to become a Christian/Bible Belt issue? You are making a lot of assumptions about that original clerk, wow, you think she could just be, I don't know, incompetent?

 

She wasn't a clerk, though, she was a manager. And she, it appears, deliberately lied to the OP. If the section were labeled Christian, there would be no quibble whatsoever.

 

And living in the Bible Belt is often quite an interesting experience! It's truly very often a different world.

 

Anyway, a clerk? Pish. But a manager? I'm not liking that, you know?

[PrairieAir]

I don't think the two B&N stores near us have a children's religion section. The adult religion section has quite a variety of books on other religions. I'm not sure it is predominantly Christian at all. Dh always checks out the religion section in bookstores and he is pretty disgusted with their Christian selection. I think we have only ever bought one Christian book from a secular bookstore. (Used bookstores are a different story. He often finds old, out of print books he's been looking for by regularly searching used bookstores.) In my opinion, secular bookstores around here are not doing Christians any real favors by carrying most of the Christian books which they do. I almost never even bother to look there. It's much easier (and usually cheaper) to find the books I want in this category by searching the internet for a specific book.

 

I do think that it is logical for the store to stock books they think will have a good chance of selling. Are there many Hindus in your area? Would they shop for such books at this store? A bookstore is not the same as a library. I would expect to find books on at least every major religion as well as some of the lesser known/followed religions in a library. I think both should have a book or two at least on world religions in general. The purpose of a bookstore is to sell books. They have a business to run and it is about money rather than educating the public. Now, if you happen to know that there is a true demand for these books, let them know. I don't think you can expect them to stock books that would not sell just for the purpose of exposing people to other religions or educating the public. That is what libraries are for.

 

We have checked out many, many books on other religions from local libraries, I'm not interested in buying these types of books. I want to be educated--and educate my children--about other religions, but the only way I would buy a book about a different religion is if I was considering converting to that religion.

 

I do think the woman you talked to at the store handled the situation poorly. She was wrong to try to mislead you. However, I would guess that the situation made her nervous, she didn't know how to handle it, and she was just trying to make it go away as quickly as possible. Again, wrong way to handle things, but other stores carry items based upon what they believe will actually sell and a bookstore shouldn't be expected to do more. If you can show her that there truly is a demand for these books, she might be able to justify ordering some and giving up the shelf space. One way to do that is to request specific books that you want to buy. You can often order books that the store does not have in stock. If you start requesting and purchasing these books through them, they will see that there are folks who want to buy them.

[Jenny in Atl]

I used to work for B&N (B. Dalton) and the managers don't pick what the store carries, that is done higher up the chain. I think it's your area. In Metro Atl, the B&N's, Borders, etc have pretty good faith sections in the kids area, even better in the adult. Our local B&N has a huge world religion section with everything from Wiccan to Messianic Judaism. I still think Amazon or other on-line bookstores are the place to find more diverse titles.

 

Everyone who has mentioned that the selection is based on sales is 100% correct. It killed me each time the "strip" list came out (bks we were to return or destroy). Bks which were classics or important modern texts were often sent back. I had this childish belief that bookstores had a civic duty to keep certain titles on their shelves... Na, it's all about the Benjamins ($$$)

[Twinmom]

I never shop B&N for religious books...I always go to a faith-based bookstore, in part for the reason you mentioned but mainly because I think that their overall selection of faith-based books, well, stinks! While I suspect that the store's choice had to do with demographics of your area (though I'm not necessarily in agreement with it), I think that their overall choices of faith based books are pretty slim pickins! They pick the most commercially popular religious fiction, books that might be well-known but are certainly not the best theologically, etc.

 

If I were the one doing the complaining, I'd add that in as well! I'd probably tell the manager that I intended to shop elsewhere not only because of the way the sections were laid out but also because of the selection itself! Then, I'd do the most powerful thing of all...take my money elsewhere.

 

That said, I sure hope you can find a Hindu bookstore, or at least one that carries a strong selection of books of your faith! I'm sure that's difficult in the "Bible Belt!" Maybe look at Amazon or the like if you can't find what you need in a brick and mortar store.

[Old Dominion Heather]

 

Anyway, a clerk? Pish. But a manager? I'm not liking that, you know?

 

 

I don't know, Pam. The former manager of the children's section at our B&N was let go and replaced with a sales person. She said that the whole focus of the corp. is changing, in her opinion, to be entirely sales driven. They are replacing the "book people" with driven sales people who don't care what they are selling.

 

Ten years ago, you could go into a BN and ask a question about a book and you might find someone who had read it. Now they are just in the middle of the stores tied to their computers. I asked a helper/manager about a book that they didn't carry and when she couldn't find it, I mentioned checking at a local bookstore. She implied that she wasn't allowed to suggest other stores that might have the book. :001_huh: Even if they don't carry it? :glare:

 

I have three nice little local stores that are going to be getting my book business from now on.

[sdWTMer]

They have tons of inventory, yes, but for me I won't expect that they have what I want at all times. Like others have said, Borders will perhaps have more, but they don't always have what I want either. That's what is soooooo great about online, we are able to purchase more of what we want without even setting foot in a store! I like that!

[2cents]

I think that you may be reading too much into this because of your sensitivity. B & N is just a book retailer. They have limited shelf space and would naturally stock titles with the goal of gaining the most profit and turnaround. It sounds like they are taking demographics into account. Their goal is just different from what you think it should be. I think it would be nice for them to have a well-rounded representation but from what I know of B & N (a friend worked for them recently), they are profit driven (which is completely understandale). I do know that they will order pretty much anything you can ask for though. I wouldn't try to read too much more into this. I'm sure they aren't meaning to insult or infer less importance to other religions with their selection. Maybe a nice hint to the manager about re-naming the section or posting a note that encourages the consumer to special order selections might be helpful.

[PiCO]

Anyway, does anyone out there see my point? I'd love to hear from anyone who understands. It gets really lonely sometimes, living in what seems a very "Christian" world, when you are not one. I grew up in NY, and never really felt this way, although I was often different, but not like here, where people ask you all the time, and really go at you about your religion all the time. It is quite exhausting and I am just too, too tired of it.

 

I understand how you feel- it can get lonely being non-Christian, especially in the bible belt. As Colleen said, 75% of Americans claim to be "Catholic" or "Christian" on polls.

 

Have you thought about moving back to New England? The NW is also good. I live in Colorado, which is not too religious in the metro areas. If you can't move, actively seek out friends with a similar outlook on life. They don't have to be your religion, they just have to look at life the same way. That's what helps me keep a good attitude- one of my best friends is a fundamentalist Christian who surprisingly has pretty much the same outlook on life as me in every other way.

 

There's also a lot of support online- you don't mention your religion, but feel free to PM me if you want a good atheist mom's group.

[Murphy101]

mine has a small religion section that I agree should be labeled "protestant". they rarely have anything catholic.

 

BUT they have several seperate huge sectins for alternative beliefs, pagan, buddists, and lots more. I haven't checked to see if they carry childrens books in those areas.

 

ETA: they have the option of stocking what they think will sell. That's just good busines. I always order books into the store though without a problem. If enough people order in a sertain segment, they'll start carrying it. Were they refusing to order in books for you?

[Basketmaker Amy]

Well put.

[Philothea]

I have over 1000 books just on our religion, and I have never seen the same titles at any book store.

 

In my opinion, it just goes to prove that the quality of religious books in these stores is really low. Most of the books are the equivalent of what say "The Baby Sitter's Club" books are to literature. They are just made for mass consumption and rarely provoke any thought etc. Maybe some just give a warm fuzzy feeling and that's what people want, but if I was going to look for a religious book for my children, I would definately buy from someone who publishes solid materials based on my religion.

[Kelli in TN]

. They are replacing the "book people" with driven sales people who don't care what they are selling.

 

Ten years ago, you could go into a BN and ask a question about a book and you might find someone who had read it. .

 

 

Oh, this is so true. We don't have a B&N, but we do have BooksAMillion. Last Christmas I tried to shop there and I was just blown away by the incompetence. On several trips into that store I could not find a single person who knew anything about books.

 

We used to have a Davis Kidd. Most of the employees knew their books. If they could not answer a question they would bend over backwards to find the answer. I miss that. I remember standing in line the last time I shopped there. Everyone in line just looked so sad. I was chatting with the young man behind me and he said "So, will you be going to BooksAMillion?" and I said "Nope, if I want cold, impersonal service I can get that at Amazon and I don't even have to get dressed." He could not disagree.

[Desert Rat]

I've never actually looked at Barnes and Noble for a kid's religion section.

We don't ascribe to any faith here. We just try to teach morality and honesty and all the good stuff that is common to most, if not all, major world religions.

I find it very hard, on a DAILY basis, to be non-Christian in America. But I just plug right along and teach my kids that one person's POV is their POV and that's good. I try not to vent about my frustrations regarding religion around them.

I'm glad you're bringing it to corporate's attention. I too believe like other posts that it's probably not meant to be offensive or exclusionary; it's probably just economics. But that doesn't make it right!

Good for you!

[nmoira]

 

I don't know, Pam. The former manager of the children's section at our B&N was let go and replaced with a sales person. She said that the whole focus of the corp. is changing, in her opinion, to be entirely sales driven. They are replacing the "book people" with driven sales people who don't care what they are selling.

This is why I'm so happy to live near Powells. It's large enough to have almost anything I'm looking for, but is staffed with people who are so knowledgeable they must read every waking minute they're not working. That said, our local B&N (we take the kids there to play with the trains occasionally) has hired sales associates for the children's area who *really* know their stuff. Unfortunately, this seems to be the exception relative to the other B&N's I've visited; I've got to wonder whether some of these people even read, much less read children's books.

[Michelle T]

I don't even bother looking for kid books on Judaism in bookstores, I buy them online from Jewish publishers. But a couple days ago I was in Borders, looking in the adult religion section. I wanted to find a good book on Jewish philosophy for myself. There was one tiny section labeled "Judaica" and several of the books in that section were actually Christian. The rest were all pop-Kabbalah.

 

This sad shelf was in the middle of row after row of Christian books. There was a much larger section on Buddhism than Judaism, a small section for Islam, and I don't even know if there was anything on Hinduism.

 

That's why I rarely go into bookstores, and buy 99% of my books online.

Michelle T

[Myrtle]

I remember when B&N came into existence a couple of decades ago, it was a cornucopia of books compared to the small books stores in local strip malls. Now that the internet exists, B&N in comparison is lame. I only go there maybe two or three times a year.

 

The religious section is limited, but so is their knitting and math. In fact, the math books found in math would more accurately shelved as "physics."

 

If I'm casually browsing nonfiction with nothing in mind, then B&N is okay, but if I'm looking for a particular topic I look for recommendations online, check them out in google books and buy them through the mail.

 

I think the problem that you are describing is bigger than just religion, it encompasses many topics and subjects. I think you are just being confronted with the anti-intellectualism in this society. For example, the B&N by Chapel Hill has a more to offer in the philosophy section than the B&N in Monroe, LA...I was genuinely shocked to not be able to find Euclids Elements at my local B&N nor was Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago there either.

 

I gave up on B&N after I was lectured that Aristophanes was a philosopher and not a dramatist and to look in the philosophy section for Greek drama...I eventually got what I was looking for through interlibrary loan and rarely do I now patronize B&N. They can go out of business and I wouldn't miss them at all.

 

PS And sometimes things are shoved in hidden shelves and the employee is too lazy to help you find them. Saying that it doesn't sell is a get-out-of-work free card.

[OnTheBrink]

It's funny; a few have said it's lonely being a non-Christian in a "Christian" society, but from my pov, our society is very secular and I am often feeling pretty alone, as a Christian.

 

Perspective is a odd thing.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

It's funny; a few have said it's lonely being a non-Christian in a "Christian" society, but from my pov, our society is very secular and I am often feeling pretty alone, as a Christian.

 

Perspective is a odd thing.

 

But your light shines much brighter when it's dark all around you. Otherwise, you just get lost in all that glare.

 

ETA: I am really sorry you feel that way, though. We were always very lucky to live in a community where we found a church and good fellowship, and when the mayor asked the preacher to pray before the city council meetings, it was never the local Pagan minister or even the local Rabbi (if there was one) doing the praying. It was always a Christian. Military, ditto. The person offering thanks before the company picnic was always ALWAYS Christian.

[genie]

It's funny; a few have said it's lonely being a non-Christian in a "Christian" society, but from my pov, our society is very secular and I am often feeling pretty alone, as a Christian.

 

Perspective is a odd thing.

 

Well, I think as homeschoolers, non-Christians will feel it more. (Generally speaking here...) Think about the homeschool groups you're involved in, are they not mostly Christians? Do they require a statement of faith? What about co-op classes? And homeschool-specific curriculum? Is there more secular or Christian? Are you usually asked, "What church do you go to?" or are you asked, "Do you go to church?" Any time I've been anywhere around other homeschoolers, it's the first one.

 

Now back when I worked in the music industry, needless to say I didn't feel lonely as a non-Christian. So perspective is certainly an element, but so is environment.

 

(None of this was to disregard your observations or pov. Just adding to the discussion! :))

[PiCO]

Are you usually asked, "What church do you go to?" or are you asked, "Do you go to church?" Any time I've been anywhere around other homeschoolers, it's the first one.

 

 

This reminds me of when I first told a long-time aquaintance (wasn't a friend back then) that I was going to homeschool. She had always been very outspoken about how homeschooling was best for Christian families. She kind of reminded me of the Betty Bowers parody.

 

Anyway, just as expected this woman says, "What church do you go to?" Just as I was wording my answer, she said, "Wait a minute, I think first I should ask you if you go to church." Wow, that really floored me. What surprised me even more is that she still talked to me even after I told her we don't go to church. I had previously overheard her talking negatively about other non-church goers, so I though our aquaintance-ship was a think of the past.

 

As it turned out, she was turning over a new leaf. I now consider her a friend.

[Mom to Aly]

Why does this have to become a Christian/Bible Belt issue? You are making a lot of assumptions about that original clerk, wow, you think she could just be, I don't know, incompetent?

 

 

Well, the prob with the original clerk incompetent assumption thing is she was the manager of the entire store, and I am sure she wasn't incompetent. I just searched on Amazon, which, for some reason, I'm much better on than B&N, for Hinduism books for kids because someone from here pm'd me and asked about good ones for kids, and I found a ton of great ones that were inexpensive, then I looked on B&N and found them, so I'm taking that list in to B&N tomorrow to show her. I'm also going to look up other religions, I don't want it to be only Hinduism represented, and, more than anything, I think they should have some books on world religions.

 

I've been thinking about this whole thing, and my main question is this--she told me they have had one book in the kids section on Buddhism for a year or two--it gets bought, then returned, then bought, then returned, which I do find hard to believe. But, even if that is true, and that is why she won't buy anything else, because there isn't a need for anything else, how will she know there is no need if she doesn't try? In this internet age, how many people will take the time to go into the store to order when they can just go online and get it somewhere else if they find nothing in the store? As for me, after looking for so long in B&N, I just assumed there wasn't anything here for kids on Hinduism, it never occurred to me they just wouldn't carry it.

 

Oh, and, as for the library, it is worse--ours has absolutely nothing!

 

Finally, I was a bit afraid to post this, thought I might get some major critics--you guys have made me feel so validated--thank you so much for understanding and your support!!!!

[Jenny in Atl]

Well, I think as homeschoolers, non-Christians will feel it more. (Generally speaking here...) Think about the homeschool groups you're involved in, are they not mostly Christians? Do they require a statement of faith? What about co-op classes? And homeschool-specific curriculum? Is there more secular or Christian? Are you usually asked, "What church do you go to?" or are you asked, "Do you go to church?" Any time I've been anywhere around other homeschoolers, it's the first one.

 

Now back when I worked in the music industry, needless to say I didn't feel lonely as a non-Christian. So perspective is certainly an element, but so is environment.

 

(None of this was to disregard your observations or pov. Just adding to the discussion! :))

I have yet to find a hs group that is really secular in our area. They may say they are, but most are made up of members who are active in their faith. That said, they are pretty tolerant of non-faith members, or at least try to be. I guess I have lived her so long, that I'm used to the church questions. Get them even from family members on dh's side. When we were going to church, it was not a denomination popular in the south (Episcopalian) so I got funny looks when the subject came up in my HS circles. I do want to add though, that my mom got just as much pressure when we were in New York about our lack of church participation from many of the moms in our old neighborhood. It was heavily Italian/Irish Roman Catholic; so, it's not just the south.

[Twinmom]

But your light shines much brighter when it's dark all around you. Otherwise, you just get lost in all that glare.

 

Pam, that's a nice reminder. Thanks! I'd rep you, but I still can't for some reason.

[Mamagistra]

I was genuinely shocked to not be able to find Euclids Elements at my local B&N nor was Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago there either.

 

 

Funny you should mention that because I actually visited B&N a couple weeks back (against my better judgment), and in their bargain books section was a copy of Elements! I perused its four-inch thickness, wanting to buy it. I then chickened out and left it all by its lonesome, mostly because it was published by B&N. And also because I'm not remotely mathy. ;)

 

But I agree with you: B&N is lame. :D The children's section is like a sad, sad gag. :glare:

 

(Good to see you 'round, btw.)

[Lisa in Jax]

My first :iagree: ever, and it's with Colleen. Wonders will never cease! ;-)

 

To be clear: here's no "dig" intended in my comment. I'm only noting the irony of my using "I agree" for the first time in response to Colleen's reply. Colleen, you and I are on opposite ends of the political/ideological spectrum *and* about as far as one American can be from another geographically, but I agree with you wholeheartedly in this case.

 

It sounds like the manager of the book store was rude and closed-minded. Still, the reality is that Hinduism is not as common as Christianity/Judaism in America. It makes sense (to me) that there would be a proportionally fewer number of titles on topics for whom there are fewer possible purchasers. (This assumes, of course that only Hindus read about Hinduism. That's obviously not always the case...)

 

Lisa

 

 

I do understand your viewpoint. Religious studies certainly do go well beyond Christianity; in that respect, the "Religion" section you've described is mislabeled. I'd address that issue, as well as the manner in which the female clerk responded, when you speak with someone who has more authority.

 

Having said that, I think you need to put your complaint in context. America may be a pluralistic society, but it's very much a Christian culture ~ even in areas far more diverse than the "Bible belt". According the the CIA World Factbook, a 2007 breakdown of the U.S. population by religion put mainstream Christians (Protestant and Roman Catholic) at roughly 75% versus less than 1% of Buddhist adherents. No wonder you get lonely! Just as I'd feel lonely in, say, India, where less than 2.5% of the population professes my faith.

 

As others have pointed out, economics drives what's on a store's shelves. Big box stores like B&N thrive off of the masses; they're bound to go in for whatever's maintstream. It's unrealistic to expect a store with a mainstream business plan to stock items that represent a sliver of the population.

 

Now, please understand. I am not assuming that people of one faith are incapable and unwilling to purchase books relating to another faith. Nor am I suggesting that you not express your view and concerns to any owner/manager of a business you frequent, if that business isn't meeting your needs as a customer. I am suggesting that rather than chalk this up as one more negative about the area in which you live, you consider the economic reality of a store's business decisions. If the folks at B&N were flat-out unwilling to order the books you're seeking, that would be a whole 'nother story. But, I'm sure, that's not the case. They aren't discriminating against you; they'll fill your order. The fact that they don't have it "on demand" (e.g. on the shelf), though, is not necessarily evidence of narrow-mindedness, but of economics and statistical realities.