Ipsey Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I saw this today and was reminded of a thread here earlier this year. It's the story of a church in PA, that 3 weeks ago created a "Christian persecution" reenactment for the edification of its youth. I hope churches will stop doing this sort of thing. While I was in a Christian ministry in college we once pretended to play "persecuted" church, and we were interrupted and threatened, etc. I know that kids are still encouraged to play similar games in some church camps. While that sort of thing gives me the willies anymore, this one sends me screaming over the edge. http://abcnews.go.com/US/church-stages-fake-kidnapping-youth-group-students/story?id=16012844#.T3Oz-vDWYhD I'm curious how many Christian families have been involved in anything like this to any degree. How did you feel about it? How do you feel about it now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Oh my gosh!! Seriously bad decision!! Trauma ;( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Oh my gosh!! Seriously bad decision!! Trauma ;( :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 If someone did that to my kids I would be on a war path. A real AK-47, an actual kidnapping (they can claim it was fake but they hooded those kids, threw them in a vehicle and took them from place A to palce B without permission. THat is actual kidnapping imo). It sounds like the parents were not notified and asked permission for their child to participate in this. The kids were not told something like "Some time in the next few weeks we will do this" -like they do in some self defense classes. They showed the kids their pastor with what appeared to be bruises and blood from an attack on him. I would be livid if my kids were subjected to that and would be out to bring that church down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in TX Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I can't imagine subjecting anyone to that kind of trauma. A real AK-47??? Have they lost their minds?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFG Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I have always thought such stunts were dumb. They also have nothing to do with teaching the Christian faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssavings Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Are they insane?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 WHAT were they thinking? I mean, I cannot fathom the lack of forethought that went into that blazingly STUPID idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer in MI Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 That is insane! What are they thinking??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Are they insane?? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I remember reading about this a little while ago. I wish I could remember where I read it, because the article included more information from the church's perspective. If I'm remembering correctly it had to do with missions and this was not the first time it had been done. The pastor said they would a find a way of notifying the parents while insuring the kids stayed out of the loop. Something like calling while the kids were on the way or already there. Where was it the schools did slavery experiences with students (I'm pretty sure they were 12 or so, right?)? Both of these make me pretty angry. I'm a little bit angrier thinking that the schools doing it was acceptable, the teachers should have faced the same charges that the leaders are looking at here. I will say that I've read about these 'experiences' being done prior to missions into dangerous areas. Imo, I see where that's coming from. I've also seen where young missionaries (teens) experienced this in real life, during their missions (guns, kidnapping, near-death, &tc) and they were very upset that they had not been prepared. I imagine this sort of thing, in that case, makes sense. It's easy to agree to go into a dangerous situation in theory. Agreeing after believing you were in a similar situation seems like agreeing with a better understanding. All the same, unless these kids were preparing for missions to the persecuted churches, this was too much. People aren't nearly as jaded as we give them credit for. Easter plays don't need to have realistic blood splashing off Jesus and children do not need to fear for their lives. Of course, that's my opinion ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMSews Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 As a Christian parent, I find this highly disturbing. I would never agree to have my children involved in something like this. If my church did it without notifying me, I would sue. This is not an acceptable way to teach teens about Christian persecution. I can think of several other scenarios that could be staged, with the consent of both parents and teens, and without terrifying them. Very short-sighted decision by the church leadership...I think they are going to regret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 no words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 My daughter is a really sensitive kid. She would be traumatized and forever changed by a stunt like this. I would be aggressively pursueing the strongest punishment allowed by law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 An AK47, an off duty cop, and a "real" kidnapping. Stupid, ignorant, and insane. Couldn't assault charges be filed because they were touched? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Absolutely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Do they have any thought to how totally NUTS this makes them look to outsiders? Do they care about how this reflects upon other churches and Christians? I mean, I guess they don't care. And, I guess what they are doing is a reflection of how they see the world. A world that now sees them as crazy, because they did a crazy thing, so will treat them as crazy. It's really a closed system of crazy, isn't it? Those poor kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm curious to know if the parents had any idea this was going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 They are darned lucky that there wasn't a kid, or bystander adult, with a weapon, who took the leader's actions seriously, because it could have ended very, very badly. There is absolutely no excuse for treating someone this way without their permission (parent and, at that age, teen as well), and it's dangerous, on so many levels, to do so. What on earth were they thinking? Might be a good idea for those who are members of churches for whom persecuted Christians is an area of interest to bring this story up as a proactive move, to try to prevent anyone else thinking this is a good idea in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth in MN Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I think that church is about to find out what modern day persecution is all about. If I were one of the parents I would be... well... what I would say and do in speculation are not nice or pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbookbuzz Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 There is absolutely no excuse for treating someone this way without their permission (parent and, at that age, teen as well), and it's dangerous, on so many levels, to do so. Yes, the way the church went about doing this was unwise. As to the comment in the quotes: It IS wrong but it happens all.the.time. in 3/4 of the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevilla Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 It does not surprise me that this happened at an Assembly of God church... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 It does not surprise me that this happened at an Assembly of God church... :lol: This was my first thought as well. Yes, the way the church went about doing this was unwise. As to the comment in the quotes: It IS wrong but it happens all.the.time. in 3/4 of the rest of the world. Yes but in those parts of the world Christians know it could happen at any moment and are prepared for that possibility. In the article, the pastor was quoted as saying they kept the teens in the dark "to secure the shock value of it and to make it much more real because those who are threatened don't have a warning." :confused: Yes, they do. They don't know when it might happen, but they know they are in danger and they choose to attend church, study the Bible, witness, etc. with that knowledge. These kids did not have they opportunity to make that informed choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudboots Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 They are darned lucky that there wasn't a kid, or bystander adult, with a weapon, who took the leader's actions seriously, because it could have ended very, very badly. YES. Our church now has "unofficial" security guards standing at every entrance, and I've wondered whether they're armed. (Off-topic - they're totally awesome. Taking four tiny kids across a parking lot is so much easier with them there.) With the rash of shootings in schools - and even in churches - in recent years, I think more people have begun to carry concealed weapons for protection. OTOH, I have a family member who lives in a country where she could face persecution for her faith. (She is married to a native of that country.) I don't know whether it really helps to prepare someone for this, or whether the "trial run" only gives them PTSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Hazing was banned on college campuses years ago. I am baffled at how anyone thought this would be a good idea for a church. I read once about a mock secret church meeting. It involved parking down the street, stealthily entering through a back door with a password, gathering in a room just a tad too small for typical American comfort, singing silently, passing around single pages of Scripture from one shared Bible, leaving one or two at a time with a lookout... Nothing like this extreme case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 That off-duty cop has probably just cost himself his job. Do people have no common sense anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecclecticmum Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 That is completely and utterly wrong. Its wrong that it happens elsewhere in the world and they know it, so they do it here. So according to them, 2 wrongs DO make a right? :001_huh: To follow that line of thought "You live in a world where this doesn't happen, we thought you were missing out, so we made it happen" The LEAST they could of done is said "Sometime during the next 2 months of youth group, you will experience what it is like to go through persecution of your beliefs, there will be no real harm involved, and if anybody does harm you, say the safe word "beetles" ...or something along those lines. They still would of been "surprised" and shocked that it happened. And the parents SHOULD OF BEEN ADVISED IN FULL, and the exact date it would happen, and give their permission. This would allow the parents who did not wish to allow their children to participate to disallow them from going that week. With NO notifcation of the parents, bodily proof of harm, and transferring, and a real gun. All parties involved should go to jail. It WAS kidnapping. I noticed how they made sure to say its unloaded like that should get them off. If you rob a bank, and your gun is unloaded, does that make you innocent? What they did to these children is awful and the fact they did it as a church/under religion, is just :001_huh: I am completely bewildered and :glare: quite annoyed. If it was my child, there would be no end to my wrath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 There are significantly better ways that this to prepare kids for overseas missions that might be dangerous. I would never have dreamed of arranging for my children to be fake-kidnapped before we moved here because of the (incorrect) perception that Kyrgyzstan is dangerous. Of course, I don't think it's a good idea to send minors to dangerous areas no matter what, especially if you're asking them to do risky or illegal things as some missions do. I think this especially bothers me because, even though the church in the article was serious and probably thought they had good intentions, it's still fake and it belittles the real problems people of all religions, races, ethnicities, economic backgrounds, etc, face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I am speechless. :glare: So sad to see that young girl in tears and traumatized as a result. I can see a civil lawsuit happening. What on earth were they thinking?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Terrible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy in Australia Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 it's still fake and it belittles the real problems people of all religions, races, ethnicities, economic backgrounds, etc, face. :iagree: My parents came out of communist countries. My paternal grandfather was abducted for real and they never saw him again. This kind of stunt must be offensive to people who are living it for real and don't have the choice to opt out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Insane, heads would roll if that were my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 They are darned lucky that there wasn't a kid, or bystander adult, with a weapon, who took the leader's actions seriously, because it could have ended very, very badly. This was my thought as well. My ds, although small, thinks he's Mr. badA**. He's very gentle, but I can see him trying to do "the right thing" and defend himself. How many of us have taught that in the case of attempted abduction do everything you can to not get into the vehicle? He would have probably hurt himself or someone else in the process of fighting back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 We have two retired military officers, one retired police officer, and two hunters in our congregation that have liceses to carry concealed weapons. They do not leave home without them. On top of which, our pastor once received death threats from a drug user who attempted to get financial assistance from the church and all pastor was willing to do was drive him into the city to a rehab clinic in a hospital. The guy went berzerk making all kinds of threats. Pastor was really shaken. Ever since then, our deacons have tried to make sure we have one licensed to carry person with some security training at the church during each service. We live in a rural area and normally do not have this kind of thing going on, but the drugee did attack another person (not pastor) and nearly killed that victim. I cannot imagine what it would be like for an urban church dealing with a high crime area. How many more people would be licensed to carry? :001_huh: If that happened here, there is a very good chance that one of these three people would have shot the off duty policeman with the AK-47. I had a high school teacher (parochial school) who never left home without his sidearm. If someone had planned something like that and not told him, very likely the "perp" would have been wounded or dead. Not to mention PTSD, Depression, Anxiety disorders, etc. that can develop from going through something like this. In my book, the pastor, youth pastor, off duty officer (whom I would imagine will no longer have a career in law enforcement), and any other accessories who aided and abetted the kidnappers should end up with time spent in prison. I am fairly certain the church's liability insurance will be making some large payouts to these families for mental health help. Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.......:banghead: Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 That off-duty cop has probably just cost himself his job. Do people have no common sense anymore? Probably. If it had been my kiddo involved I'd be beyond livid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 What were they thinking...if they were thinking at all? If this kind of persecution is so bad that we want our children to be aware of it, do we really want them to EXPERIENCE it? These kids had no warning, so to them it was very real. Very stupid!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 What very bad judgement by the adults in that situation. I remember going to a slumber party and the parents staged a break-in. A man appeared in the house with a gun yelling at us and pretending he'd broken in. We screamed a lot and ran around, but we knew it wasn't real, just because most people are pretty bad actors. He wasn't vicious enough. I'm hoping the most of the kids could tell it was fake and won't be scarred by this. But that poor girl in the video didn't know it was fake, so maybe they were. I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in VA Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) This is absolutely crazy! And the pastor thinks it would be okay if parents knew about it before hand??!!! What parent in their right mind would let anyone do this to their children. If they did it would be a terrible betrayal and how could the kids EVER trust their parents again. Absolutely horrifying!! Mary ETA: I asked my 17 yo dd what she thought. She said the big teen guys in her youth group would probably try to do something. Also, she would NEVER trust the pastor again! What a way to destroy relationships!!! Edited March 29, 2012 by Mary in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Well, they certainly got what they wanted. Those kids will never forget what the church did to them. I'd be interested to know how many families leave the church because of it. My guess is that families who are upset now will ultimately stay because they trust the church body to take care of them spiritually. I sure hope there were no new youths visiting the church on that specific evening. Can you imagine that being your child's first visit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm just sitting here wondering what would have happened if my boys had been in the group. I know they would not have taken it. There would have been fighting. Who knows where it would have ended up. Of course, our pastors would never pull something like this. And they know my boys well enough to know how they would react. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Wow...this is one of those stories where you're jaw drops to the floor reading it. :eek: I'm sure there was a lot of time and planning in getting this to go off the way it did. You'd think somewhere during that time someone would have spoken up and said this isn't a good idea. It will be interesting to hear what happens now. and if anybody does harm you, say the safe word "beetles" ...or something along those lines. Beetles. :lol: Sorry....that struck me as funny. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipsey Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Oh, my! I think this post has received more attention than any thread I've ever started. I'm relieved to see that so many people are outraged at this. I'm surprised this still does on, though. Even several years ago, I read about events like this--yes, even staged kidnappings--that were going on in some US churches, and people were angry. Maybe not angry enough. I hope this one will get enough media attention that it will stop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Education Explorers Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 An AK47, an off duty cop, and a "real" kidnapping. Stupid, ignorant, and insane. Couldn't assault charges be filed because they were touched? This stupid, poorly thought out action could and likely would result in major felony charges if it had happened in Georgia. Just off the top of my head, they could be indicted in Georgia for Aggravated Assault, Aggravated Battery, Kidnapping with Bodily Injury (does not require serious injury), False Imprisonment, Possession of a Weapon during the Commission of a Felony, Child Endangerment and Child Cruelty. Those carry a whole lot of potential jail time... You just have to wonder how people can be so stupid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle My Bell Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I am a christian and I find this insane! I would be infuriated. I feel that way right now! I would be calling down every sort of persecution or should I say PROSECUTION on these idiots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajudy Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 This story is sickening. No doubt the youth pastor thought it would be a "cool" activity. I'm afraid if it were my kid I would be pressing charges. I certainly wouldn't darken the door of that church again. But I'm also sure that my family would be criticized by the church leadership for not having enough "trust in God" to protect my child. That is the way these types of church leaders think. Let them think what they want. I am the one who is ultimately responsible to God for my child! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Major legal issues here! They committed an actual crime. This has to stop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Exactly what Christian teaching was this? :confused: Simply horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggieamy Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I am so flabbergasted that anyone could have thought that was a good idea. What in the hell is wrong with people?!?! This idea seriously sounds like something the strange creepy drunk uncle (or deacon in this case) in the family (church) would have come up with and everyone else just awkwardly nods, changes the subject, and then doesn't give the idea any real consideration. Edited March 29, 2012 by aggieamy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caraway Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I remember going to a slumber party and the parents staged a break-in. A man appeared in the house with a gun yelling at us and pretending he'd broken in. We screamed a lot and ran around, but we knew it wasn't real, just because most people are pretty bad actors. He wasn't vicious enough. :willy_nilly: What were *they* thinking??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecclecticmum Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Beetles. :lol: Sorry....that struck me as funny. :001_smile: For some reason, it was the first word that popped into my head :001_huh: :tongue_smilie: As other OP's have said, its the one place I believe my children to be safe. Now I even have to second guess Youth Groups & Sunday Schools. :confused: We currently don't attend church (my faith is a little out of the ordinary, so closest church for me is 3 1/2 hours away) DH is more of a general christian, and we would be attending church if not for C (he has some problems, and can get quite loud/insistent/demanding and scream/shriek. But its even made me look at other options now :( Luckily we currently use a bible curriculum and after that we'll probably stick with an at home Godly Play type thing. Youth group was a mainstay in my life growing up, I counted it as a place where I could re-affirm my belief, and have understanding people surrounding me...if this had happened to me, I would be having major issues that would probably continue into adulthood. This is not preparing, as OP said, its more like hazing, and even hazing your usually aware anything could happen, in this case, you believe you were in a safe haven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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