WWYD, co-op teacher used the "F" word to my daugther

[tmulcahy]

Just heard my son say, "What the hey."

 

Time for a lecture on brimstone? That the rest of humanity is thinking of double hockey sticks?

 

You can't please all of humanity;)

 

I find it harmless.

[JeneralMom]

Interesting....the "this was totally inappropriate" folks seem, on the whole, to have younger kids. Totally understandable.

 

However, if one happens to spend time with older teens and young adults in a social setting (outside of church and away from parents) one would not question the teacher's assumption that "What the ...." implied the F. It really is commonly accepted in the vernacular these days.

 

I just don't understand why people would want to shelter their children from this implied meaning. Teach the kids so they don't make themselves and their families look bad by saying something that has a different meaning outside their home. The F word has been around a long, long time. It's not going away.

 

 

As someone who has younger kids, I agree with Ria. I think it was fine of the teacher to do, and I have never heard the phrase used to imply anything other than WTF. My 8yo has started using the phrase and I have been stopping him, but it wasn't until I said "it means what the ^$ck" in no uncertain terms, that he stopped using it.

[MeaganS]

YUP! My son says what the....

 

At first it bothered me and then I realized, what the...., it's not that big of a deal here. He has no bad intent. It does not matter what anyone else thinks. It is what I have said is allowable for my son to use and that is what matters. I am tired of tip toeing around others because they will think I am a loose parent with loose morals. Since some WTMers use word TeA in conversation to mean something else....Am I not supposed to be able to say the word tea without judgement? I agree with the above poster...lighten up. I get so aggravated at all the judgement passed on these little issues. Finger pointed at the co op teacher...not the OP.

 

To the OP....You know, I would not have minded the co op teacher explaining the phrase to my daughter but would have minded her assuming that she meant it that way. It could have meant WT heck, WT hell, WT mess (as I have heard kids say around here). I would have been more bothered by the fact that she assumed that my child meant WT-F and not something more innocent.

 

If your child is dropping the F bomb then that is another story...what the... are you teaching them? :lol:

 

:iagree:

 

I have young kids, and we don't swear at my home, but I wouldn't mind the fact that she corrected my dd at that age, assuming my dd was doing something wrong. What I would mind is that she assumed my dd was using it in place of a big swear word and also that it was a problem. "what the..." is not the same as a swear word, and definitely not in need of correcting. I'd think she needed to lighten up, and if she did have an issue, she needed to talk to me about it or be more delicate. At 11 I didn't even know what the "f" word was. I remember being so confused by that scene in A Christmas Story...you know, with "fudge." :)

 

I guess all that rambling is to say, I wouldn't mind her correcting my daughter in the correct context. Maybe even if she was saying, "what the f," but I don't think this situation is one of those that required it and I think the teacher needs to lighten up. I also probably wouldn't mention it to the teacher unless this was a persistent problem, but it would make me roll my eyes at her, at least in my head.

[mommaduck]

I would tell her in no uncertain terms that I did not want her to use that kind of language with my kid ever again. The phrase could also end with "heck."

 

 

I'd also let the people in charge of the co-op know what happened.

 

 

That is the one word that drives me over the edge.

:iagree: Though, yes, she may have been explaining, that is YOUR job and she should have come to you, not your daughter on that one.

[livingnlearning]

Like it or not, WTH or WTF are part of common webspeak now, right up there with LOL.

 

You can try to shelter her from it but it's very nearly the same as her using the word "gay" in its outdated context. Language changes and while you might using it in its previous context most other people are not.

 

She might be putting down a very innocent exclamation but as she ventures out in the world she's going to find that other people are picking up something different. She better just say the whole innocent phrase if she wants to not be misunderstood.

 

Now as far as the teacher, I think she's right to make the point but maybe the delivery was off. Unfortunately you don't have a first hand account and by your report your daughter was a little freaked out by the conversation so maybe it didn't come out quite as bluntly as it seems now.

 

I have an 11 year old daughter and she has heard the word... and in fact heard one even worse last summer thanks to a extremely outspoken neighbor. She wasn't shocked or traumatized; she knows it's not for her to use and was a little surprised that someone would say it around her... but in this modern culture it's pretty tough to not run into vulgar language at some point, unfortunately.

[pooh bear]

I'm guessing I'm one of the few posters who actually taught her kids what words are considered bad, and what they mean, eh?

 

I wanted them to know, so as to prevent mistakes like the OP's daughter made, and so they would understand what was meant when they heard such words. My children were not harmed. Their ears did not smolder and fall off. They learned something, and that was the end of it.

 

 

My ds, 11, could curse like a sailor if he wanted to, but he doesn't.

 

We have told him most of the curse words we can think of, and their meaning, so that he doesn't use them, even if his friends do.

[JulieH]

That teacher was totally out of line. I'd be angry and I'd say something to her. She could have even just said "some people will think that means the F word"

 

Well...in my homeschool co-op group (or so I'm told, it starts today), that teacher would be required to memorize a scripture verse and recite it to the advisory board telling them what it means to her and then they'd vote on whether or not to let her back to the group.

 

Yeah. Seriously. Can you believe it?? LOL

[Ria]

 

Well...in my homeschool co-op group (or so I'm told, it starts today), that teacher would be required to memorize a scripture verse and recite it to the advisory board telling them what it means to her and then they'd vote on whether or not to let her back to the group.

 

 

 

WTF?

 

Sorry. Just couldn't resist....:lol::lol::lol:

[bzymom]

We don't allow swearing, even from my adult kids. And I have found myself saying "what the" and following it up with silly stuff like "pudding" or "walnut".

 

That said, it would bother me if the teacher used that word to explain anything to my kid. She could have simply said, "Not sure if you know what that phrase can mean, but it can be offensive so we don't want it used here."

She could then have had a quick conversation with you after class to give you a heads-up that your daughter had been corrected and perhaps you could reinforce it.

[homeschoolally]

They use the 'what the' expression in movies aimed at kids heavily now. I can't say for sure if they are G or PG because our kids are allowed to watch both--but I hear it frequently on the relatively innocent movies we allow our kids to rent.

 

I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume it means 'what the heck' or in some cases I'm sure the kids (in our sheltered homeschool community at least) who don't realize there is anything beyond 'what the' in the phrase. I hear kids from fairly conservative families saying it all. the. time.

 

For an adult to say the F word to your child in that scenario---is unacceptable on so many levels. If she wanted to share her concern, she could have easily explained it without uttering the expletive.

 

I would be furious.

[nowimscrappin]

I cannot stand it when my 6 year old says "What The". They got it from TV and I definitely think in popular culture today, the omitted word is "F" even if you don't think it is, or think it can be others. To the kids, its "F"

 

My kids don't say the "F" but I get on them when they say "What The" because of the implied ending and I think its not appropriate, regardless. They can say "Oh my goodness" if they are shocked by something. I had to train myself for a long time to stop saying "Oh my G--" because I realized that could be disrespectful to others and have finally retrained myself to say "Oh my goodness" or "Oh my"

 

Definitely in today's culture "What The" means "What The F" even if it doesn't to you or others you know - I don't like my kids saying it and have told them so. If another adult wants to pull them over and also reinforce why, I'm ok with that. I need my village in cases like that.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Interesting....the "this was totally inappropriate" folks seem, on the whole, to have younger kids. Totally understandable.

 

However, if one happens to spend time with older teens and young adults in a social setting (outside of church and away from parents) one would not question the teacher's assumption that "What the ...." implied the F. It really is commonly accepted in the vernacular these days.

 

I just don't understand why people would want to shelter their children from this implied meaning. Teach the kids so they don't make themselves and their families look bad by saying something that has a different meaning outside their home. The F word has been around a long, long time. It's not going away.

 

I have also had to explain to my teen sons that when they say that someone or something "sucks" it does not mean that they have extra rug cleaning chores and that the card bluffing game BS was not short for "Boy Scout" even though they learned the game at a campout.

 

I tend to be blunt with my kids, because they can be naive. I don't want them to give offense because they were clueless.

[gingersmom]

I can't imagine an adult talking to a child like that. Highly inappropriate in my opinion.

 

If someone has an issue with my child I would expect them to come to me, not take it out on my child.

 

We say "what the" all the time. It never occurred to me to include an F word at the end.

 

I think the women has serious issues.

[Chris in VA]

Therese said

I would have been more bothered by the fact that she assumed that my child meant WT-F and not something more innocent.

 

I'm not sure the teacher assumed the child meant the F part, I think she was just protecting her, because OTHER people will fill in the blank with the F word. It's common slang. And yep, I do believe it's generational--today's teen/20 kids, not people over a certain age, because it used to be WT heck! I know many people (my mom, for one) who would NEVER use the F word--wouldn't even occur to her. But nowadays, things are different.

 

Maybe she didn't need to actually say the word--but maybe she was ok to do that because she wanted to be honest about it and tell the dg.

 

I'd still change the family usage.

[Tangerine]

Honestly, I use the F word, and I even think of it as "What the heck?". :confused:

[Parrothead]

Just for kicks, I searched this board for WTF. People here have used it.

 

If you don't think that "What the-" can be followed by the grandmother of all bad words, what do/did you think the F stood for?

I actually find the initials just as distasteful as the words themselves. It leaves nothing to the imagination. Although I do try to see it as "What the firetruck," or "What the fudge-cycles."

 

I don't see why it can't just be left at What the... and each to his own as to what the ending is. For me it would be heck or something that I wouldn't find vulgar. For those who use the swear words or for whom the swear words are the norm they can fill the blank in with whatever makes them happy.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Parrothead

[In The Great White North]

"Implied swearing" ????

 

As the saying goes, "close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades." You don't penalize someone for a "bad word" they didn't say.

 

the coop teacher would not tolerate it on the playground.

 

IMHO, the coop teacher has no right to prohibit common English words, like "what" and "the," just because they are commonly followed by f--- in some age groups.

[JulieH]

WTF?

 

Sorry. Just couldn't resist....:lol::lol::lol:

:lol::lol:

You should see the list of rules and regs that were read out loud to us.

 

My poor 7 year old is very upset because she can't wear shorts today. Or a tank top because it isn't 3 fingers wide. (it's hot out!)

Hopefully she won't be kicked out over her skinny jeans.

 

Sorry..didn't mean to hijack..I'm just feeling a little skeptical this week over co-ops!

[lulubelle]

My son is 9 and does not know the "f" word at all. If a teacher filled that in for him, I would be upset. He is dying to know all the swear words and likes to use the ones he knows.

 

Did your daughter know the word? If she did, then that is fine what she said. But, if she didn't then I would mention to her that she introduced it to her.

[Annie G]

I just think the teacher could have been more gentle and gracious about it. She could have discreetly pulled the young lady aside and told her that in popular culture it means the vulgar phrase 'what the f'. And assumed that the young lady didn't know that. She just didn't have to be so forceful and embarrass the girl.

 

11 is a funny age- some know tons and some are still quite innocent.

[angela in ohio]

As awkward as it may be, I think the co-op teacher may have saved your child from some future embarrassment; in short, I think she did your dd a favor. "What the..." really does mean WTF. Your child needed to know.

 

Be thankful your dd didn't say it in church or somewhere else.:001_smile:

 

:iagree:

 

If she means to say "What in the world?" She needs to say that--and not drop the "in" or "world".

 

But it doesn't...not around today's teens, young adults, um, most of the population. If a person says "what the ..." the F is implied. The child needed to know.

 

It's WTF. It's common knowledge, and if someone says it means "What (in) the (world)?" it will be seen as a lie and a cover.

 

If it was to end with world or heck, you would just say that, as pp said. Stopping after "the" implies a certain ending.

 

I have an itchy trigger finger and I wouldn't be upset about this.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't know why your dd felt threatened. It is perfectly appropriate for another adult to correct a teen at our co-op, and if one of my friends heard my dc say that and NOT correct them, I would be upset. I personally wouldn't have said the word, but honestly, it made her point very well.

[BatmansWife]

I never got into the habit of swearing, have never sworn in my life, and so no, when I hear these partial phrases, my mind does not automatically go to a swear word. In my head, "What the..." is followed by "heck", "Oh you little..." is followed by "monster" or "brat", sorry, my mind just doesn't go there.

 

However, I know many people's thoughts *do* go there, and it should have been brought to the OPs attention, advising her of the common meaning of the phrase, and suggesting that she have a discussion with her dd about not using, and that the coop teacher would not tolerate it on the playground.

 

My dd likely wouldn't even know what the "F" word is or means, never having heard it before (she doesn't watch R movies, and we don't use it at home). Therefore, this is a discussion I would want to have with her myself.

 

Using the actual swear word in front of the child was totally inappropriate.

 

:iagree:

 

 

I guess the teacher has no trouble saying the word. I don't, either. You are right - the teacher could have said "f-word" instead of f*ck, but would that really be any different? Really?

 

Well, I'm glad we agree on the something Ria. :D

I guess it doesn't bother you because you have no problem saying the word. We do. I don't say it. I don't even write it. I actually try not to even think it. :lol: I don't like my kids to hear it....and of course they've heard it. We don't live in a bubble. I really don't think my kid needs to hear it at a homeschool co-op class from the teacher. Yes....I think "f-word" would have served the teachers point without having her feel the need to say it. So, yes...I do think it would have been different.

[livingnlearning]

My kids know all the cuss words, or at least all the ones that I know. They hear them occasionally but know them to not be for them to use unless they're working outside, we call them barn words. and they are usually used in context in the barnyard. lol

 

I don't worry too much about cussing; I live in rural Montana among working people of all ages-they are going to hear cussing.

[simka2]

That teacher was totally out of line. I'd be angry and I'd say something to her. She could have even just said "some people will think that means the F word"

 

Well...in my homeschool co-op group (or so I'm told, it starts today), that teacher would be required to memorize a scripture verse and recite it to the advisory board telling them what it means to her and then they'd vote on whether or not to let her back to the group.

 

Yeah. Seriously. Can you believe it?? LOL

 

 

This is a joke right? Please tell me this is a joke? :confused: (I mean the verse memorization for the teacher)

 

OP, if your dd was younger I would say the teacher was way out of line, but your dd is 11.

 

If I were in your shoes (and I have been :grouphug:) I would need to own up to my dd that "What the ...?" is in no way a stand in for, "What in the world?" In fact I should have been the one to educate dd on that before she was put in an embarressing situation.

Edited September 15, 2011 by simka2

[Trish]

Therese said

 

 

I'm not sure the teacher assumed the child meant the F part, I think she was just protecting her, because OTHER people will fill in the blank with the F word. It's common slang. And yep, I do believe it's generational--today's teen/20 kids, not people over a certain age, because it used to be WT heck! I know many people (my mom, for one) who would NEVER use the F word--wouldn't even occur to her. But nowadays, things are different.

 

Maybe she didn't need to actually say the word--but maybe she was ok to do that because she wanted to be honest about it and tell the dg.

 

I'd still change the family usage.

 

Only a matter of time before we'll need to start correcting our parents on what it means if they happen to use it. But if there is disagreement on this thread as to what it means, then I guess we can't say it universally means anything in particular. It is interesting though that people want to insist an unsaid word HAS to go to the lowest common denominator.

 

I would guess if PG-rated movies are using it, then the so-called implied meaning is NOT universally accepted.

 

How about we take ALL the words out and go Uh, Uh UHHHH. Then your tone of voice can be an "implied swear word."

[Firefly]

Honestly, I use the F word, and I even think of it as "What the heck?". :confused:

 

Yup. No sheltering here. My teen and tween know what the F word is (among others). Around here, people use "WTF" (letters) when they don't want to say "What the f__". "What the..." left ambiguous is usually assumed to be finished with heck/hell.

[Daisy]

It is definitely short for a swear word (regardless of which one) and unfortunately, many children's movies are using, "What the..." as part of their desire to race headlong up to the edge of decency. I can see where a child wouldn't know what it meant but the vast majority of society understand it to end in an unspoken swear word.

 

The mother/teacher should have told the girl that the phrase was inappropriate and mentioned it to you so YOU could handle it the way you felt best.

 

That said, I don't really shy away from explaining to my children when they say something by accident. My son mispronounced Shiite yesterday and I explained to him very clearly why he had to be careful. Other parents are less willing to do this but I grew up not knowing any swear words and it has caused me public embarrassment as an adult more than once.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Daisy

[Sebastian (a lady)]

That teacher was totally out of line. I'd be angry and I'd say something to her. She could have even just said "some people will think that means the F word"

 

Well...in my homeschool co-op group (or so I'm told, it starts today), that teacher would be required to memorize a scripture verse and recite it to the advisory board telling them what it means to her and then they'd vote on whether or not to let her back to the group.

 

Yeah. Seriously. Can you believe it?? LOL

 

If that were the case in my coop, I would memorize Proverbs 22:6 and suggest that if correcting what is going to be perceived as inappropriate language is not acceptable, that my services as a coop teacher are not as compatible with the coop as I thought. (And yeah, my coop is church based and has a SOF. And yeah, I really am that much of a curmudgeon.)

 

Could the teacher have used a euphanism? Perhaps. But my hunch is that a parent could have gotten just as upset about that. And I can also totally see imagine a thread of outrage over the fact that a teacher pulled a parent aside to complain about her understanding of what the kid had said.

 

There are multiple understandings of what the phrase implies. But I think that getting too upset over the fact that the language was corrected is misplaced.

 

(FWIW, I counselled my older sons a few minutes ago on this phrase as well as What the Hell. I told them that I'm personally ok with heck, drat and zounds, but that bloody is right out, especially around our neighbor with the British background.)

[Snickerdoodle]

My ds, 11, could curse like a <drunken> sailor if he wanted to, but he doesn't.

 

Phew. I thought mine were the only ones.

[Haiku]

Fiddlesticks!

 

Are you disagreeing that people will think it's implied swearing or disagreeing that that the child and parent should be aware of this?

 

I mean, really, the child can say whatever s/he wants, and I don't really worry about "What the ...," but as this thread evidences, some people do. Nothing wrong with being aware of what people around you think.

 

Tara

[Trish]

It is definitely short for a swear word and unfortunately, many children's movies are using, "What the..." as part of their desire to race headlong up to the edge of decency. I can see where a child wouldn't know what it meant but the vast majority of society understand it to end in an unspoken swear word.

 

 

 

Well I don't agree with your vast majority declaration.

 

To take it back to a prior generation, how about, "Well I'll be dam*ed!" Unacceptable in polite society, so various things got substituted, such as "I'll be a monkey's uncle," and so forth.

 

I'll bet there isn't a person here who hasn't watched a movie where some little old lady says, "Well I'll BE!" (implied swear word totally missing)

 

Hey, little old lady, do you realize it has to mean D__________?

 

No. Because that isn't what she meant.

 

Heavens to Betsy!

[abbeyej]

It's WTF. It's common knowledge, and if someone says it means "What (in) the (world)?" it will be seen as a lie and a cover.

 

If it was to end with world or heck, you would just say that, as pp said. Stopping after "the" implies a certain ending.

 

Well, I *do* think that "What the--" could as easily mean "What the hell?" as "What the F---?" (And I see it written out as both WTF and WTH on a regular basis -- without the last word, it really could go either way.)

 

But IF a family would consider either "What the hell?" or "What the F---?" to be totally inappropriate, you need to drop "What the ---?" all together. It means one of those two things. If you want it to be "heck" or "What in the world?", you need to *say* those things.

 

*Nobody* is going to interpret "What the --?" as "What in the world?" They just aren't.

 

Personally, I think the teacher may have been mildly out of line. She could as easily have said, "That dropped word at the end *implies* language that we don't use in public, so please avoid using that phrase at co-op." But I don't think she was "wildly out of line" either. The OP could choose to have a quick and casual conversation -- but only if she could do it without seeming combative, 'cause I doubt the teacher intended to hurt or offend. ... And I wouldn't worry too much about what the 11yo heard. She needed to know that that phrase could be interpreted as more vulgar than she intended, and at 11, she should probably know what those words are and that they're inappropriate. I don't think the teacher's actions were reprehensible or anything. ;)

[Snickerdoodle]

Personally, I think the teacher may have been mildly out of line. She could as easily have said, "That dropped word at the end *implies* language that we don't use in public, so please avoid using that phrase at co-op." But I don't think she was "wildly out of line" either. The OP could choose to have a quick and casual conversation -- but only if she could do it without seeming combative, 'cause I doubt the teacher intended to hurt or offend. ... And I wouldn't worry too much about what the 11yo heard. She needed to know that that phrase could be interpreted as more vulgar than she intended, and at 11, she should probably know what those words are and that they're inappropriate. I don't think the teacher's actions were reprehensible or anything.

 

:iagree:

[SailorMom]

I think she was perfectly appropriate. She didn't use it as an expletive *at* your dd, like your title sounded. She was explaining what most of the culture uses it to mean, and why that's not ok.

 

I think you should stop using it all together, even if it means something different at your house, honestly.

:iagree:

[Tangerine]

such as "I'll be a monkey's uncle," and so forth.

 

 

I just used this phrase for hangman with my 6 and 5 year old yesterday. Clearly I'm a corrupting influence. :lol: I never even thought about the alternative. But now I will, now that you put the nasty idea in my head. :tongue_smilie:

[simka2]

Well I don't agree with your vast majority declaration.

 

To take it back to a prior generation, how about, "Well I'll be dam*ed!" Unacceptable in polite society, so various things got substituted, such as "I'll be a monkey's uncle," and so forth.

 

I'll bet there isn't a person here who hasn't watched a movie where some little old lady says, "Well I'll BE!" (implied swear word totally missing)

 

Hey, little old lady, do you realize it has to mean D__________?

 

No. Because that isn't what she meant.

 

Heavens to Betsy!

 

In theory I agree with you, but there is a space of time between when it becomes cute slang, and when it retains a direct connotation.

 

WTF, still has a very direct connotation (maybe not in conservative homeschool circles) in the general populous.

Edited September 15, 2011 by simka2

[Tammyla]

I pretty much agree with you. Personally, I would not have said the word to the 11 yold.

 

We don't curse in our home, and my kids probably wouldn't have recognized the word at that age. Later, I did later make sure they were familiar with curse and a few derogatory words to avoid embarrassment, but I didn't drill them into their heads like their math facts.

 

And around here WT...could easily mean WTH or WTF, but no one would get WITW from it.

 

 

 

I'm aghast at the responders who thought the teacher was appropriate. I would never, NEVER, think, "What the ?" would end with the F word. Unfortunately, it leaves the unsaid word to the imagination.

 

While this teacher did not use the F word "at" your dd, she used the F word "to" your dd. This is mere semantics; it does not make it okay in the second situation.

 

I would be furious for so many reasons. It is not up to the teacher to "explain" to your dd what she "said" when dd did not say it. I would absolutely be discussing this with leadership, and if for any reason they found this to be somehow appropriate, that would be my indication that this co-op was terribly wrong for my family.

 

I'm no prude. Perhaps I'm just an older generation. I hear this word all the time, but people who use this word in front of others' children are incredibly selfish, rude and thoughtless, no matter what the context. Don't inflict your profanity on my kids. Say it in front of your own, but leave mine alone.

 

:confused::confused::confused:

Edited September 15, 2011 by Tammyla

[Mom0012]

I have to say this phrase drives me nuts. It gets to me every time I hear some young person say it. I don't think I would have spelled it out to her, but I would have told them not to say it that it is short for a curse word.

 

I might mention to your friend that your dd told you what happened, and that you guys didn't know that is what it meant and that she certainly didn't mean it that way. But do it with a smile. I wouldn't get on to her about it.

 

:iagree: This would have been a much wiser approach on the part of the teacher.

 

Lisa

[Trish]

In theory I agree with you, but there is a space of time between when it becomes cute slang, and when it retains a direct conotation.

 

WTF, still has a very direct connotation (maybe not in conservative homeschool circles) in the general populous.

 

It means different things to different segments. I have heard the What the ______ phrase fairly regularly, and even used by adults who aren't of the swearing type. So even if the phrase ORIGINATED in the youthful generation of teens and twenty-somethings who think f-word, it is starting to be used routinely by the "what the heck" crowd.

 

Swear words are used for shock value. Leaving the word out has no shock value, IMO. And when grandparents start using it, then it loses all value whatsover.

 

And I don't concede that the "blank" means f-word to the majority. Otherwise the adults with small children that I hear using it would not be using it. And I'm not about to correct them.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Well I don't agree with your vast majority declaration.

 

To take it back to a prior generation, how about, "Well I'll be dam*ed!" Unacceptable in polite society, so various things got substituted, such as "I'll be a monkey's uncle," and so forth.

 

I'll bet there isn't a person here who hasn't watched a movie where some little old lady says, "Well I'll BE!" (implied swear word totally missing)

 

Hey, little old lady, do you realize it has to mean D__________?

 

No. Because that isn't what she meant.

 

Heavens to Betsy!

 

I would suggest that those little old ladies may well have known just what they were leaving out. I don't assume that past generations were more naive than we are. They used the euphanisms because they understood that the other phrases were vulgar and that a euphanism allowed them to convey some of the same tone without getting in trouble.

 

But then I have in fact been known to swear like a sailor, perhaps because I was in the navy, and because 120 degree boiler fronts are not known for their delicacy of expression.

[simka2]

It means different things to different segments. I have heard the What the ______ phrase fairly regularly, and even used by adults who aren't of the swearing type. So even if the phrase ORIGINATED in the youthful generation of teens and twenty-somethings who think f-word, it is starting to be used routinely by the "what the heck" crowd.

 

Swear words are used for shock value. Leaving the word out has no shock value, IMO. And when grandparents start using it, then it loses all value whatsover.

 

And I don't concede that the "blank" means f-word to the majority. Otherwise the adults with small children that I hear using it would not be using it. And I'm not about to correct them.

 

I think we are saying something similar, but just a bit different. ;)

Majority to me is society at large. Not the "majority" of people I am in regular contact with. That would be a much more conservative group, who would be using it in the way you described.

 

Whether it is a stand in for "heck, hell, or f*ck," really wasn't my point. My point was that it hasn't yet adapted into some o the more cutesy terms like, "I'll be a monkey's uncle." :D

 

I do not knwo about you, but I know many gradnparents who have mouths like sailors!

[Julie in CA]

Interesting....the "this was totally inappropriate" folks seem, on the whole, to have younger kids. Totally understandable.

 

However, if one happens to spend time with older teens and young adults in a social setting (outside of church and away from parents) one would not question the teacher's assumption that "What the ...." implied the F. It really is commonly accepted in the vernacular these days.

 

I just don't understand why people would want to shelter their children from this implied meaning. Teach the kids so they don't make themselves and their families look bad by saying something that has a different meaning outside their home. The F word has been around a long, long time. It's not going away.

I agree, and color me completely gobsmacked, because I truly don't understand how some of the ladies don't know that WTF stands for. What did you all *think* the F stood for? :001_huh:

 

Even if you leave off the "F", people know what's meant by that.

 

The teacher did the child a kindness. The rest of the world would most likely have assumed the child intended the crude language. Better the lesson now, than an even more ingrained bad habit later.

 

As parents, sometimes we forget that what we don't help our kids to understand and correct, the world will most assuredly do so. Or not. The correction seems appropriate to me, and I would say, "Thank you" at the soonest opportunity. :001_smile:

Edited September 15, 2011 by Julie in CA

[Trish]

I would suggest that those little old ladies may well have known just what they were leaving out. I don't assume that past generations were more naive than we are. They used the euphanisms because they understood that the other phrases were vulgar and that a euphanism allowed them to convey some of the same tone without getting in trouble.

 

But then I have in fact been known to swear like a sailor, perhaps because I was in the navy, and because 120 degree boiler fronts are not known for their delicacy of expression.

 

By using it in front of their kids, they are implying it's okay for their kids to use the phrase. If these are people who don't otherwise swear or allow their children to do so, I would argue they are thinking "heck" along with me.

[BatmansWife]

As I was reading these latest replies, I was listening to the tv that was on. The Today Show is on...the segment with the realtor. At the end of explaining one of the houses she just said, "But, what the heck...it's only $144,000."

I just thought that was kind of funny.

[TCB]

Just wanted to say that my daughters think the F word is "fart". :D

[SquirrellyMama]

I agree, and color me completely gobsmacked, because I truly don't understand how some of the ladies don't know that WTF stands for. What did you all *think* the F stood for? :001_huh:

 

I think we all know what the F stands for. I think some of us don't use the expression WTF but use WTH. Those people would not automatically assume "F" but would think "H".

 

Kelly

[Mynyel]

We had our first day of co-op yesterday and during break a mom takes the kids outside for some leg stretching. During the course of their play my dd (11) uses the phrase "What the?" in our household it is short "what in the world?" I see now after yesterdays incident that it could be misconstrued for something vulgar. I will be stopping my children from saying it. Anyhow, the teacher who is also my friend took dd aside and asked her if she knew what that meant. Dd does not like confrontation and immediately felt threatened by this woman so she clammed up. The teacher tells her "It means, what the f---, so don't use it around me" My dd of course was embarrassed and horrified that an adult used that kind of language around her. She had no idea that it could mean that.

What would you say to this woman or would you just let it slide?

Not a good start for our first day of co-op.

 

I have to disagree with some of the other posters. The only reason people think it means WTF is because that is what we have been "programmed" to think. Saying "What the?" does not automatically mean WTF and is in no way offensive and if someone finds it offensive then they need to rething their own thinking rather than trying to change someone else.

 

See until someone put the idea in your head you are clueless. The dd in the OP comments had NO idea that is what some people may think. She could have gone the rest of her life thinking it meant "What in the world?". Well someone tells her it means WTF, well she quits says it, and when someone else she hears say it she tells them.. no don't say that it is bad. No all the sudden saying "What the?" is a bad phrase.

 

Case in point. My daughter said "Screw it" at one point at a group function. She was frustrated with something was was just meaning forget it. She had NO idea that some might think it a dirty phrase. Well much to my consternation (and subsequent pull from the group) one of the leaders enlightened her that it can mean sex. For the love of Pete she said screw it not screw him or her. Take the sentence in context not out of context. Also take the context from the person (and age of that person) into consideration.

 

If a 10yo says "Screw it" I don't think they are talking about sex and of someone else thinks they are then they need to change their own thinking.

 

People are to hyper sensitive to words and phrases. We need to just let it go. Jeeze, sometimes an innocent phrase is just that an innocent phrase.

[abacus2]

This is absurd. Maybe, and really just maybe, it was appropriate for the teacher to explain that swearing was implied with "what the.." , but there was absolutely no reason for her to actually say the curse word in question.

[Brilliant]

Personally, I think the teacher may have been mildly out of line. She could as easily have said, "That dropped word at the end *implies* language that we don't use in public, so please avoid using that phrase at co-op." But I don't think she was "wildly out of line" either. The OP could choose to have a quick and casual conversation -- but only if she could do it without seeming combative, 'cause I doubt the teacher intended to hurt or offend. ... And I wouldn't worry too much about what the 11yo heard. She needed to know that that phrase could be interpreted as more vulgar than she intended, and at 11, she should probably know what those words are and that they're inappropriate. I don't think the teacher's actions were reprehensible or anything. ;)

 

:iagree: *I* would have handled it with the child without saying the actual word. But I wouldn't say anything to this teacher about the way she handled it.

[Danestress]

I do think it's good for your daughter to know what other people might thing that means, although honestly, I would tend to fill in the blank with "heck" which is something used in my family. "What the heck?" seems more common and expected to me than the more vulgar alternative.

 

I'm sort of surprised the teacher chose to fill her in on this interpretation, since I don't think it's what most people would assume, but I do think your daughter needs to understand why leaving the last word dangling sort of implies an unacceptable vulgarity.