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NOT okay. Even if the teacher was correct and the ending was an obvious "F---" (which is debatable), it wasn't her place to set the child straight and potentially introduce her to a vulgar word she hadn't heard previously. She should have informed the parents of her preference that the phrase not be used and left it to them to handle.

 

Around here it's always "What the hell?" or "What the heck?" I haven't heard anyone say "What the F---?" Regardless, it's still offensive and dropping the last word doesn't really sound much better.

 

If it's short for "What in the world?" then why didn't your daughter just say it (since that isn't bad) OR why didn't she say "What in the...?" Maybe she did hear someone else say "What the....?" Just a thought.

Edited by Abigail4476
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If that were the case in my coop, I would memorize Proverbs 22:6 and suggest that if correcting what is going to be perceived as inappropriate language is not acceptable, that my services as a coop teacher are not as compatible with the coop as I thought. (And yeah, my coop is church based and has a SOF. And yeah, I really am that much of a curmudgeon.)

 

Could the teacher have used a euphanism? Perhaps. But my hunch is that a parent could have gotten just as upset about that. And I can also totally see imagine a thread of outrage over the fact that a teacher pulled a parent aside to complain about her understanding of what the kid had said.

There are multiple understandings of what the phrase implies. But I think that getting too upset over the fact that the language was corrected is misplaced.

 

(FWIW, I counselled my older sons a few minutes ago on this phrase as well as What the Hell. I told them that I'm personally ok with heck, drat and zounds, but that bloody is right out, especially around our neighbor with the British background.)

 

There was nothing to correct. The child used a phrase that is ambiguous.

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I mean this in a totally non-snarky way--if the only true meaning of "what the" is WTF, why is it said in Disney movies and other children's programming?

 

There are really some of us out there who say "what the heck" or even "what the he*l" instead of the F word.

 

I'm not terribly uptight about cussing, but the F word is in a whole different category. I don't consider this line of thinking to be extreme.

 

I'm surprised the OP isn't getting more support from the board on this. I think it was in very poor taste if the lady actually said the word vs the perfectly suitable alternative of saying 'the F word' or something along those lines. She would be hearing from me in a hurry.

 

FWIW, among the dozens of other homeschoolers we know IRL, I can only think of a few who would not be upset about this.

Edited by homeschoolally
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As awkward as it may be, I think the co-op teacher may have saved your child from some future embarrassment; in short, I think she did your dd a favor. "What the..." really does mean WTF. Your child needed to know.

 

Be thankful your dd didn't say it in church or somewhere else.:001_smile:

 

NOT appropriate!!! It could mean "what the hell".... or "what the heck" and seriously, I would be telling her that's not ok to tell a child. What if your child had (luckily) never heard that work, before. Did she want to explain what "F**k means??? (then I'd be even more p*ss*d)

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I have to disagree with some of the other posters. The only reason people think it means WTF is because that is what we have been "programmed" to think. Saying "What the?" does not automatically mean WTF and is in no way offensive and if someone finds it offensive then they need to rething their own thinking rather than trying to change someone else.

 

See until someone put the idea in your head you are clueless. The dd in the OP comments had NO idea that is what some people may think. She could have gone the rest of her life thinking it meant "What in the world?". Well someone tells her it means WTF, well she quits says it, and when someone else she hears say it she tells them.. no don't say that it is bad. No all the sudden saying "What the?" is a bad phrase.

 

Case in point. My daughter said "Screw it" at one point at a group function. She was frustrated with something was was just meaning forget it. She had NO idea that some might think it a dirty phrase. Well much to my consternation (and subsequent pull from the group) one of the leaders enlightened her that it can mean sex. For the love of Pete she said screw it not screw him or her. Take the sentence in context not out of context. Also take the context from the person (and age of that person) into consideration.

 

If a 10yo says "Screw it" I don't think they are talking about sex and of someone else thinks they are then they need to change their own thinking.

 

People are to hyper sensitive to words and phrases. We need to just let it go. Jeeze, sometimes an innocent phrase is just that an innocent phrase.

 

I don't think the point was whether the child KNEW they were saying something vulgar or not. Many first graders in my husband's classroom have no idea they are swearing. They are simply repeating words they hear at home. That doesn't stop my husband from telling them the word is inappropriate. While I think the teacher took it too far in explaining the actual word, it is appropriate for the teacher to admonish the child for using it, imo.

I have and would again take children to task for using both the phrases you mentioned.

 

Words are communication. We don't get to assign meaning to them based on our personal bias. They are how we communicate in this world and thus there is a shared meaning. I don't want my son walking into a interview at 20yo and saying, "Screw it" or "What the..." so I don't allow it innocently at age 10 either.

 

I think WTF is a great example to use. Its common usage is a swear word. If ones children decide to make that mean We're Team Friends, hopefully the parents is going to clue them in before they start plastering that all over their notebook pages at co-op.

Edited by Daisy
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What the, means what the f### if you were going to say what te heck, you would say it. Only saying what the, means you are dropping the swear but that it is still silently there so to speak. If a child said that around me I would ask them not to. I wouldn't curse like that with someones child. The teacher handled it poorly but that is what it means. If you are going to say what the heck? There is no reason to drop the heck. There is a reason to drop the f word though.

 

It could also mean of course what the hell, but I don't think a kid should be saying that either. If this teacher is your friend then she may have a reason to feel it is all right to talk like that to your kid.

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As awkward as it may be, I think the co-op teacher may have saved your child from some future embarrassment; in short, I think she did your dd a favor. "What the..." really does mean WTF. Your child needed to know.

 

Be thankful your dd didn't say it in church or somewhere else.:001_smile:

 

I didn't read the hundred million replies but I agree with Ria. "What the heck" is a way to say "What the hell" which is a way to say "What the F....".

 

 

It's all rude.

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I think WTF is a great example to use. Its common usage is a swear word. If ones children decide to make that mean We're Team Friends, hopefully the parents is going to clue them in before they start plastering that all over their notebook pages at co-op.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Ok, this was funny.

 

I do agree that it could have been a teaching moment, and addressing it was fine--she crossed the line when she actually said the F word in making her point.

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Interesting....the "this was totally inappropriate" folks seem, on the whole, to have younger kids. Totally understandable.

 

However, if one happens to spend time with older teens and young adults in a social setting (outside of church and away from parents) one would not question the teacher's assumption that "What the ...." implied the F. It really is commonly accepted in the vernacular these days.

 

I just don't understand why people would want to shelter their children from this implied meaning. Teach the kids so they don't make themselves and their families look bad by saying something that has a different meaning outside their home. The F word has been around a long, long time. It's not going away.

 

:iagree: and like Sebastian said in a previous post, we have had to explain to our children what some expressions really mean. Our thinking is that if we let the kids use expressions naively when they are young, how do we then question those same expressions when they are older. IMHO they need to understand how language is heard and perceived.

 

I do think the teacher could have addressed the issue in a much better way. She did not need to use the word to express her point.

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I think WTF is a great example to use. Its common usage is a swear word. If ones children decide to make that mean We're Team Friends, hopefully the parents is going to clue them in before they start plastering that all over their notebook pages at co-op.

 

I thought it meant "Well Trained Friends.":D

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I mean this in a totally non-snarky way--if the only true meaning of "what the" is WTF, why is it said in Disney movies and other children's programming?

 

There are really some of us out there who say "what the heck" or even "what the he*l" instead of the F word.

 

I'm not terribly uptight about cussing, but the F word is in a whole different category. I don't consider this line of thinking to be extreme.

 

I'm surprised the OP isn't getting more support from the board on this. I think it was in very poor taste if the lady actually said the word vs the perfectly suitable alternative of saying 'the F word' or something along those lines. She would be hearing from me in a hurry.

 

FWIW, among the dozens of other homeschoolers we know IRL, I can only think of a few who would not be upset about this.

 

Because movie companies want to appear to a wider range of viewers so they throw aduly language in. Yes you hear it in Disney movies, the newer ones. Not in the old Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty etc.

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My son (almost 18) just included "wtf" in a text message to me. I've never seen him use that before, certainly never heard him say it. He's gotta be the most straight laced kid on the planet. (So much so that I did a bit of a double take. :lol:)

 

He is in between classes at the college and having internet connection issues, so I'll cut him some slack. ;) (He's got almost 3 hours until his next class, so I'd say he used it appropriately! I just thought his timing was funny. :tongue_smilie:)

 

He most certainly knows what it means. If I hadn't clued him in, someone else would have long before now.

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While I think the teacher took it too far in explaining the actual word, it is appropriate for the teacher to admonish the child for using it, imo.

 

What word is the child being admonished for using? Is it "what"? Or "the"?

 

FTR, as someone who doesn't sit around looking to police the language of others, I interpret "What the...?" left dangling as an expression of surprise so great that the speaker doesn't even know how to end the sentence. The phrase *is* ambiguous, as clearly evidenced by the number of interpretations of it in this thread.

 

Had the teacher simply informed the young lady that someone might interpret what she said as a substitute for profanity, I would have not have (much of) a problem with her doing so. What this teacher did WAS out of line, and I would expect an apology, or my child would not be in that class any longer.

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:iagree: and like Sebastian said in a previous post, we have had to explain to our children what some expressions really mean. Our thinking is that if we let the kids use expressions naively when they are young, how do we then question those same expressions when they are older. IMHO they need to understand how language is heard and perceived.

 

I do think the teacher could have addressed the issue in a much better way. She did not need to use the word to express her point.

 

:iagree:

 

On the other hand, the child won't soon forget it! :tongue_smilie:

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I didn't read the hundred million replies but I agree with Ria. "What the heck" is a way to say "What the hell" which is a way to say "What the F....".

 

 

It's all rude.

 

Really? Strange. When someone says "What the heck?" I, oddly enough, hear them say "What the heck?"

I have no idea how "what the heck?" is rude. Frankly, WTF isn't even rude in some settings.

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I would be angry about someone using that word when talking directly to my child. She could have something along the lines of "Don't say that. Some people might think that is offensive." For what is is worth, around here that phrase might end with crud, crap, fuzz, heck, h*!!, fudge, f***. I have even heard people say what the stink. So, even though many people will automatically think the f-bomb, not everyone will.

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I will say that I agree that "What the...? without finishing the phrase implies the F-word. I also do no like "What the heck?" because it is a substitute for h*ll, which is not appropriate IMHO. (I will also admit I am a bit strict when it comes to language and don't even like my kids to say "fart" to give some perspective.)

 

HOWEVER, I also think the co-op teacher was inappropriate in using the word to your DD. I think she should have come to you and said something like, "Your DD said this phrase today and in my experience, it can be taken to mean... I wanted you to know so you could tell her that it may be considered inappropriate to use in contexts like our co-op and I would prefer she not say it around me. I know you would not ever want her to say something like that intentionally and I know she probably doesn't even realize some people take it that way, so I thought it best to let you know."

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A teacher has the right to correct students in her class. Whether her assessment of what "what the..." means is correct or not, she did the right thing.

 

If she had been another random parent standing around and observing what your dd said, I might have thought she should go to you, first, but she was the teacher. She has the responsibility and the authority to correct the children in her care.

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What word is the child being admonished for using? Is it "what"? Or "the"?

 

FTR, as someone who doesn't sit around looking to police the language of others, I interpret "What the...?" left dangling as an expression of surprise so great that the speaker doesn't even know how to end the sentence. The phrase *is* ambiguous, as clearly evidenced by the number of interpretations of it in this thread.

 

Had the teacher simply informed the young lady that someone might interpret what she said as a substitute for profanity, I would have not have (much of) a problem with her doing so. What this teacher did WAS out of line, and I would expect an apology, or my child would not be in that class any longer.

 

Then we agree? I've already said the teacher should just have told the child it was inappropriate and let the parents handle it.

 

I don't agree with your believing the phrase is innocuous but we stand in agreement apparently on the appropriate response to the situation.

 

admonish = 1. To reprove gently but earnestly. 2. To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution

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A teacher has the right to correct students in her class. Whether her assessment of what "what the..." means is correct or not, she did the right thing.

 

If she had been another random parent standing around and observing what your dd said, I might have thought she should go to you, first, but she was the teacher. She has the responsibility and the authority to correct the children in her care.

 

Correct the child? For what? She didn't swear. She didn't break any obvious rules. She said something the teacher *chose* to interpret as offensive.

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I wouldn't be upset, but if I were taken aback I'd feel free to calmly let the co-op teacher/friend/other parent know. I'd hopefully see that her intentions were good, and I'd talk to her with that in mind - just a quick, "Hey, if there are any questionnable terms, phrases, or concerns in the future I'd prefer you bring it up to me directly so I can handle it at home."

 

But it wouldn't upset me, especially with an 11+ year old. I'd probably be glad for it -bigger picture- even if I felt slightly annoyed by the way it went down.

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What the, means what the f### if you were going to say what te heck, you would say it. Only saying what the, means you are dropping the swear but that it is still silently there so to speak. If a child said that around me I would ask them not to. I wouldn't curse like that with someones child. The teacher handled it poorly but that is what it means. If you are going to say what the heck? There is no reason to drop the heck. There is a reason to drop the f word though.

 

It could also mean of course what the hell, but I don't think a kid should be saying that either. If this teacher is your friend then she may have a reason to feel it is all right to talk like that to your kid.

 

It means a swear to you. To a lot of people it doesn't. To my kids it means heck or hey, and to most of the people I know.

 

If it definitely meant the F-word then Disney wouldn't be using it, and parents would be picketing Disney movies.

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As awkward as it may be, I think the co-op teacher may have saved your child from some future embarrassment; in short, I think she did your dd a favor. "What the..." really does mean WTF. Your child needed to know.

 

Be thankful your dd didn't say it in church or somewhere else.:001_smile:

 

:iagree:

 

OP, I would have been just as upset as you about someone saying that word to my child. However, she was trying to help. The bigger point is that your dd has learned that many, many, many people will view "What the..." as WTF.

 

And now my story, which may or may not make you feel better, but taught me the same lesson your daughter received (except I was 36 at the time :tongue_smilie:).

 

When I'm extremely exasperated, I shout out "Mother of Pearl!" Well, one day while checking out books at the library's circulation desk, my youngest DS (2 at the time) wandered over to a flimsy easel on which some architectural plans for a new city building had been placed. He reached out to touch it and I told him no. He kept going after it and I started to walk toward him just as the plans (on foam board, as it turns out) fell over on his head and the easel toppled backwards. I yelled out, "MOTHER..." and then stopped because I realized I was yelling (a) at my child and (b) in a library, for Pete's sake!

 

What I didn't realize until about 3 seconds too late is that finishing that exclamation would have saved me a good amount of embarrassment. When I realized what all the old library ladies and my fellow patrons thought I was about to shout at my DS, I was mortified. I started looking around like a crazed lady, repeating, "Mother OF PEARL! ...of PEARL, PEARL! I say Mother of Pearl!" I got my books and walked out with my head hanging in shame. :lol:

 

So again, my opinion is that your dd learned a valuable lesson early on. I would let it go. As an aside, I will mention that I've tried to get my kids to break the "what the..." habit also and have realized that it is ubiquitous. Kids' movies, TV, friends say it... Sadly, it might be futile.

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We had our first day of co-op yesterday and during break a mom takes the kids outside for some leg stretching. During the course of their play my dd (11) uses the phrase "What the?" in our household it is short "what in the world?" I see now after yesterdays incident that it could be misconstrued for something vulgar. I will be stopping my children from saying it. Anyhow, the teacher who is also my friend took dd aside and asked her if she knew what that meant. Dd does not like confrontation and immediately felt threatened by this woman so she clammed up. The teacher tells her "It means, what the f---, so don't use it around me" My dd of course was embarrassed and horrified that an adult used that kind of language around her. She had no idea that it could mean that.

What would you say to this woman or would you just let it slide?

Not a good start for our first day of co-op.

 

This teacher does not sound as if she wants to show your daughter a kindness in order to avoid further embarrassment. She does not seem to be interested in bettering your daughter or helping her understand not to use language that might be interpreted differently by other people. She sounds annoyed - especially the "so don't use it around me" part. As others have said, she did not need to actually use the word to head your daughter off from future embarrassment. I think her intent may have been to shock your daughter just as she did. I would not call that kindness - I would call it rudeness and self-centeredness. It sounds like she was just irritated because each time your daughter used the phrase, her own less-than-clean mind filled in the blank with the unacceptable word.

 

Granted, your daughter should know how others might "hear" it. It is a good thing for her to know that it could be offensive to other people. It may have ended up being a good thing for your daughter to learn, but I still don't think the teacher needed to actually use the word. Other posters have suggested at least five other ways she could have explained the alternative usage without actually uttering the offensive word.

 

ETA: If I had heard your daughter repeating that phrase I might have gently pulled her aside and said something like, "Sweetie, I know you probably don't know this, but that phrase can mean something very vulgar and I think you should stop using it in public."

 

I really don't think this teacher cared one bit about your daughter - she simply didn't want the phrase used because it kept reminding her of the f word. She reacted selfishly - not in kindness. If it were me, she'd be getting a visit from one very upset mom.

Edited by Kathleen in VA
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I'm guessing I'm one of the few posters who actually taught her kids what words are considered bad, and what they mean, eh?

 

I wanted them to know, so as to prevent mistakes like the OP's daughter made, and so they would understand what was meant when they heard such words. My children were not harmed. Their ears did not smolder and fall off. They learned something, and that was the end of it.

 

This is what I do. They know them all.

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I mean this in a totally non-snarky way--if the only true meaning of "what the" is WTF, why is it said in Disney movies and other children's programming?

 

 

 

It's definitely a very common meaning among the younger crowd these days. Since an 11 yo is among the younger crowd, it's kind of meaningless what it meant to our generation, what it means to some people, other homeschoolers on the WTM, those with cleaner minds etc. Like it or not, many are going to hear an implied swear word when you stop talking like that--and think that you didn't actually say that last word just to avoid getting into trouble.

 

Otherwise, what is the point of kind of trailing off like that? I thought it was universally understood that the word that would follow "the" shouldn't be said, and that would be the reason for not saying it. Unless... these kids are really so tired that they cannot bear to speak all three words instead of two? Mine certainly aren't too tired to talk (particularly my 11 yo dd who talks my ear off. :tongue_smilie:).

 

I get that kids pick these things up from other kids (and apparently Disney :glare:) and just repeat it . Mine have all said it, and I've corrected it. Repeatedly. :bored:

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My kids picked up "what the flagnog?" from watching that Monsters vs. Aliens movie. :glare:

 

My dh, however, says "whiskey tango foxtrot?" which actually makes me laugh. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think the teacher probably should have been a little more reserved in her response. There are ways to get your point across without resorting to shock value.

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Words are communication. We don't get to assign meaning to them based on our personal bias. They are how we communicate in this world and thus there is a shared meaning. I don't want my son walking into a interview at 20yo and saying, "Screw it" or "What the..." so I don't allow it innocently at age 10 either.

 

 

Yes, but there's more to communication than words. Context and relationship matter, too, as well as tone of voice, etc. Also, words can have more than one meaning. Some in this thread have stated that they, and those they know, don't imply or infer vulgarity (certainly not the "f word") when they use or hear "what the -". So stating that there is only one meaning is inaccurate. We need to give each other the benefit of the doubt. If the phrase offends you, ask your friend (or your student) not to use it. But don't insist they mean something they don't. On the other hand, try to be aware of additional meanings and inferences of words/phrases you use, and if you become aware that some may be offended by a word/phrase, consider the context when you use it. :001_smile:

 

Wendi

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Swear words are used for shock value. Leaving the word out has no shock value, IMO. And when grandparents start using it, then it loses all value whatsover.

 

And I don't concede that the "blank" means f-word to the majority. Otherwise the adults with small children that I hear using it would not be using it. And I'm not about to correct them.

 

 

I have heard teenagers say it for the shock value in youth group. Many know what they are dropping and it is as if it is "haha! I made you think I was going to keep going." It's the mischevious look that accompanies it. I don't correct them. It's up to their parents to decide if that phrase is appropriate because they aren't cussing.

 

My kids aren't allowed to say it. There are so many other things to say with less question. We also don't say, "Well, I'll be...!" "heck" "carp" or any other work around.

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I just reread the OP. The "teacher" was even more out of line than I originally thought.

"We had our first day of co-op yesterday and during break a mom takes the kids outside for some leg stretching."

 

The children were at play out doors when the OP's daughter used that expression. This wasn't even a teacher in their classroom - this was someone supervising the children playing.

 

I would absolutely demand an apology.

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We have not participated in a co-op, mostly because I can't find one that's a good fit. However, if and when I ever do, it will be in large part due to the fact that I want my kids exposed to other people--as in people with other opinions, personalities, values, preferences, manners of speech, etc.

 

This board can argue whether "what the..." is ambiguous until the cows come home. Obviously, it's ambiguous for some and not at all for others. For me, the point is that DD has learned (and I believe all our children should be taught) that everyone has different beliefs and widely varied personal backgrounds that can lead to misunderstandings and offense. If many people will see "what the..." as offensive or at least unambiguous, wouldn't we want our children to know that? Even if my kids think "what the..." is no biggie, I certainly need them to know that their 85 year old Granny thinks it is the biggie.

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YUP! My son says what the....

 

At first it bothered me and then I realized, what the...., it's not that big of a deal here. He has no bad intent. It does not matter what anyone else thinks. It is what I have said is allowable for my son to use and that is what matters. I am tired of tip toeing around others because they will think I am a loose parent with loose morals. Since some WTMers use word TeA in conversation to mean something else....Am I not supposed to be able to say the word tea without judgement? I agree with the above poster...lighten up. I get so aggravated at all the judgement passed on these little issues. Finger pointed at the co op teacher...not the OP.

 

To the OP....You know, I would not have minded the co op teacher explaining the phrase to my daughter but would have minded her assuming that she meant it that way. It could have meant WT heck, WT hell, WT mess (as I have heard kids say around here). I would have been more bothered by the fact that she assumed that my child meant WT-F and not something more innocent.

 

If your child is dropping the F bomb then that is another story...what the... are you teaching them? :lol:

 

I have also heard, "What the barnacle?" thanks to the well loved sponge named Bob. :tongue_smilie:

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A teacher has the right to correct students in her class. Whether her assessment of what "what the..." means is correct or not, she did the right thing.

 

If she had been another random parent standing around and observing what your dd said, I might have thought she should go to you, first, but she was the teacher. She has the responsibility and the authority to correct the children in her care.

 

:iagree:

 

Around here, "what the" most definitely implies WTF. And I'm annoyed that they sprinkle it in Disney movies; they should know better. But being in Disney doesn't make it OK; frankly there's a lot of stuff in Disney that I take issue with. ;)

 

I'd love to hear the teacher's version of the conversation. It's possible that she was gently trying to get across the idea that "what the" is inappropriate, and that the innocent girl was not getting it an being a bit stubborn about her right to say it. Sometimes, you need to be blunt. I would give the teacher the benefit of the doubt until I'd heard her side of it.

 

And if she did step over the line, I'd extend grace because goodness knows teachers are thrown a lot of curve balls where they have to react right then and don't always have the opportunity to hash out over pages and pages of posts with lots of input from diverse people exactly how they should respond. PLUS co-op teachers put in so much time for so little (if any) pay that I'm willing to overlook a whole bunch if they're doing a good job at actually teaching the subject to my dc.

 

I'd gently mention it, but only couched in with lots of specific praise about things that the teacher did well.

 

I once used the word "dang" as a co-op teacher, and my students were shocked. I didn't realize it would be taken badly, and I immediately mentioned it to the organizers and assured them that I wouldn't be using it again.

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While this teacher did not use the F word "at" your dd, she used the F word "to" your dd. This is mere semantics; it does not make it okay in the second situation.

 

I would be furious for so many reasons. It is not up to the teacher to "explain" to your dd what she "said" when dd did not say it. I would absolutely be discussing this with leadership, and if for any reason they found this to be somehow appropriate, that would be my indication that this co-op was terribly wrong for my family.

 

 

:confused::confused::confused:

 

:iagree:

 

The explanation for why it was inappropriate should have been left up to the parent, not someone else. It should have been sufficient to say something privately like, "That phrase is inappropriate for co-op". Then, the parent class leader who thought it inappropriate, should have mentioned her concern to the parent of the girl.

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I would argue that the co-op teacher (or any teacher, really) has the right to inform a child that something will be considered unacceptable language in their class. Even if it is tolerated at home.

 

I'm not so sure that the teacher's method of handling this situation was the best. I think a co-op makes it very easy for the teacher to mention to the parent what has happened and to give the family a chance to discuss or correct the issue if necessary. I don't think using offensive language to make the point seemed appropriate in this case.

 

One result of homeschooling that I find myself having to pay close attention to is that my kids forget that coaches, coop teachers, group leaders, etc. have some authority. One of those areas of authority would be to define acceptable language while participating in that activity.

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What!? I always assume it's "What the hell?", not WTF. This is how it is in my circles... must be a regional thing. *shrug*

 

At any rate, I really prefer if an adult has an issue with something one of my children has done, that they address it WITH ME, not with the child. (Unless of course, someone's in danger of being hurt and it calls for immediate action.) YMMV.

 

"What the heck?" is what I heard in Oregon and my kids say it often. Totally not offensive to me. My kids know most of the swear words and know not to say them.

 

I don't think telling a child what "WTF" means is going to steal their innocence or corrupt them. But I'm not big on sheltering.

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I have to admit, at my kids' ages, my daughter the youngest being 11, I think it's great that they encounter all kinds of people in the world as long as they aren't in physical danger. I guess some would shelter her from my crazy lovable artistic neighbor who cusses like a drunk sailor throughout every conversation (F word as noun, verb, adjective and adverb) but then she wouldn't have learned how to make sculptures out of copper wire and rocks... I've instilled a lot of solid values in my kids, they can talk with someone who cusses and hear what they're saying instead of being shocked by expletives.

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It could also mean "What the heck?"

 

:iagree:

 

That teacher was way out of line using the word to your daughter. She could have said (if she felt she just HAD to say something, which seems like over reacting to me regardless), "I know you might mean that as what the heck, or what in the world, but some people take it to mean a curse word so it's better you don't say it at co op" or some such.

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"What the heck?" is what I heard in Oregon and my kids say it often. Totally not offensive to me. My kids know most of the swear words and know not to say them.

 

I don't think telling a child what "WTF" means is going to steal their innocence or corrupt them. But I'm not big on sheltering.

 

:iagree: Exactly.

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This teacher does not sound as if she wants to show your daughter a kindness in order to avoid further embarrassment. She does not seem to be interested in bettering your daughter or helping her understand not to use language that might be interpreted differently by other people. She sounds annoyed - especially the "so don't use it around me" part. As others have said, she did not need to actually use the word to head your daughter off from future embarrassment. I think her intent may have been to shock your daughter just as she did. I would not call that kindness - I would call it rudeness and self-centeredness. It sounds like she was just irritated because each time your daughter used the phrase, her own less-than-clean mind filled in the blank with the unacceptable word.

 

Granted, your daughter should know how others might "hear" it. It is a good thing for her to know that it could be offensive to other people. It may have ended up being a good thing for your daughter to learn, but I still don't think the teacher needed to actually use the word. Other posters have suggested at least five other ways she could have explained the alternative usage without actually uttering the offensive word.

 

ETA: If I had heard your daughter repeating that phrase I might have gently pulled her aside and said something like, "Sweetie, I know you probably don't know this, but that phrase can mean something very vulgar and I think you should stop using it in public."

 

I really don't think this teacher cared one bit about your daughter - she simply didn't want the phrase used because it kept reminding her of the f word. She reacted selfishly - not in kindness. If it were me, she'd be getting a visit from one very upset mom.

 

:iagree:

 

Yeah. She's trying to keep the atmosphere around her own ears holy. She saw this child (whom she does not know) as a speaker of ungodly things and put her in her place, serving up a heaping helping of humiliation and shock factor. I'm not impressed.

 

I just reread the OP. The "teacher" was even more out of line than I originally thought.

"We had our first day of co-op yesterday and during break a mom takes the kids outside for some leg stretching."

 

The children were at play out doors when the OP's daughter used that expression. This wasn't even a teacher in their classroom - this was someone supervising the children playing.

 

I would absolutely demand an apology.

 

:iagree:

 

:iagree:

 

That teacher was way out of line using the word to your daughter. She could have said (if she felt she just HAD to say something, which seems like over reacting to me regardless), "I know you might mean that as what the heck, or what in the world, but some people take it to mean a curse word so it's better you don't say it at co op" or some such.

 

:iagree: 100%.

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We don't use WTF or WTH and I wouldn't want my dds using "What the . . ?" either. I wouldn't mind a co-op teacher taking them aside and quietly informing them it was offensive if they used the phrase, even if she used the actual word in educating them. It would all depend on the tone and manner in which it was done. If it was gentle and meaning to explain the offensiveness to a naive child it wouldn't bother me. If it was done in a reactionary and angry manner I would be upset. It is hard to tell from the OP explanation which it was. The fact she asked if OP's dd knew what it meant seems to indicate she thought maybe dd naively used it. Then again the "Don't use it around me" sounds angry. The fact that OP's dd was upset and embarrassed by the incident makes it hard to tell what happened. At that age I was MORTIFIED if I was in any trouble with a teacher. My heart would race and I couldn't think. I would be in panic mode.

 

If it were me I'd give my friend the benefit of the doubt. Next time I saw her I might say, "You know, last time dd saw you she was mortified to find out what the phrase, "what the . . ." actually meant. She had no idea." And then see what friend says. But I wouldn't be angry with her or take it to the co-op leaders.

 

Mary

Edited by Mary in VA
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:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I'm aghast at the responders who thought the teacher was appropriate. I would never, NEVER, think, "What the ?" would end with the F word. Unfortunately, it leaves the unsaid word to the imagination.

 

While this teacher did not use the F word "at" your dd, she used the F word "to" your dd. This is mere semantics; it does not make it okay in the second situation.

 

I would be furious for so many reasons. It is not up to the teacher to "explain" to your dd what she "said" when dd did not say it. I would absolutely be discussing this with leadership, and if for any reason they found this to be somehow appropriate, that would be my indication that this co-op was terribly wrong for my family.

 

I'm no prude. Perhaps I'm just an older generation. I hear this word all the time, but people who use this word in front of others' children are incredibly selfish, rude and thoughtless, no matter what the context. Don't inflict your profanity on my kids. Say it in front of your own, but leave mine alone.

 

:confused::confused::confused:

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One result of homeschooling that I find myself having to pay close attention to is that my kids forget that coaches, coop teachers, group leaders, etc. have some authority. One of those areas of authority would be to define acceptable language while participating in that activity.

 

Sometimes homeschooling parents forget this too (as evidenced by the many "I'd jerk my kid outta that group" type of replies). :)

 

I spent some time in a school where teachers embarrassing kids was pretty much the norm. I thought *I* had a low level of tolerance for this sort of thing. I guess not. Or maybe this just seems tame in comparison to some of the stuff I've heard.

 

If your child is going to participate in team sports, outside classes or co-op, they are going to encounter people who handle things differently than their parents would. This teacher was over the top in her explanation. Maybe she is used to working with much older kids?

 

However, someone correcting my kid, even a little harshly does not bother me enough to pull my child out of a class they were otherwise enjoying. There would have to be more to it than that. There would have to be an obvious attempt to humiliate my child. The OP did say she pulled her dd aside. It does not sound like she was trying to embarrass her.

 

In our group, parents are encouraged to correct a kid who is breaking any co-op rules. Any kid, in or out of class who is misbehaving is subject to being told by any adult to straighten up and fly right.

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