Moving when children are in middle school

[sea_mommy]

Quick background:

We currently rent a house in town.  We’ve lived here for a long time and our rent is cheap.  We like it here, BUT: several years ago, the road in front of our house was changed and it is now a busy road and all 3 of our children are in the same room.  We now feel that it is time for our oldest to have a room of his own.

We own a piece of property about 30-40 minutes outside of town.  We had always planned to build a house out there.  In a few months, we will have enough money saved to build that house.

My concern?  We have lived in this neighborhood for a long time and our oldest has a best friend just a few houses away.  They spend a lot of time together—a lot.  I’m concerned that it would be detrimental to him for us to move to where he won’t have any friends close by. 

Has anyone moved to a more rural area when their kids were homeschooled and were entering middle school?  Any advice/wisdom/suggestions?

[QueenCat]

My youngest was in middle school when we moved. Just make sure to get them involved in activities in the new area so that they can make new friends. Kids are adaptable. Military kids move every 2-3 years, and the overwhelming majority of them do just fine. A big part of it will be your attitude. If you act like it's going to be super hard, it will be. If you act like it's a new adventure, it will be. 

[mom@shiloh]

I think that your concerns are valid and yes, I do think it will be hard for your middle schooler for awhile.  But, I don't think you should allow that to be an over-riding factor in your decision.  It sounds like building a house in the country has been your plan for a long time because you feel it will be best for your whole family in the long run. One of the reasons we moved to a more rural area was to give our teens work to do.  It was important for us that they learned to do yard work, gardening, home repair, animal husbandry, etc.  We felt those were skills that were difficult to teach on our tiny, city lot.

 

You may need to commit to driving your oldest to see his friend on a regular basis.  

[teachermom2834]

We moved when our dc were in grades 12, 10, 7, and 2. The middle schooler had the easiest adjustment by far. He was able to join into activities at that age that were harder for older teens to jump into.

 

The move was pretty hard on the tenth grader. I would still do it all over again because it was better in the long run. The tenth grader has learned all kinds of life lessons out of the adversity too.

 

I definitely wouldn't stay over a friend, though I would be sad and grieve the loss. People change, situations change. Over the years we have told our kids we could never make decisions for our family based on what other people are doing because the other people could change up their plans too. You could decide not to move and then six months from now the friend moves, or isn't nice anymore, or joins a team that leaves him unavailable for friendship, or any variety of things. We have seen this scenario play out over and over.

[maize]

My youngest was in middle school when we moved. Just make sure to get them involved in activities in the new area so that they can make new friends. Kids are adaptable. Military kids move every 2-3 years, and the overwhelming majority of them do just fine. A big part of it will be your attitude. If you act like it's going to be super hard, it will be. If you act like it's a new adventure, it will be.

Military do move a lot, and that is a huge source of stress for military families.

 

I think OP's concerns are very valid. Friendships are a big predictor of happiness and good mental health for kids. Disrupting a positive friendship at a vulnerable age is not something to do lightly. Certainly the friendship would weigh more heavily in my book than whether or not the child gets a separate bedroom.

 

Most humans, kids included, can adapt to a wide variety of circumstances, but that does not mean that the adaptation is not stressful and difficult. When sources of stress in children are studied moving is one of the top ones.

 

I think"kids are adaptable" is used way too often by adults to minimize in their own minds the consequences of their decisions on kids.

 

None of this means that moving could not be the best decision for OP's family, but I think she is right to weigh the friend loss as a serious consideration.

Edited November 16, 2017 by maize

[Hilltopmom]

I was a military kid. It pretty much sucked.

 

For my own family, We lived out in the country on 50 acres until

Last winter, then moved to town. It was nice to be in the woods with just a few little kids but with more kids getting older, town us great!

It’s so much nicer not having a long commute to all the teen activities that they are involved in and much easier to get together with friends, old and new!

Dd also started at public school so being near other families has been great for getting together with others kids finally.

 

As for one friend, you could still drive to get them together. In rural areas everyone is used to driving at least 30 minnto an hour for get togethers.... I’m just so glad I don’t have to anymore!!!!

Edited November 16, 2017 by Hilltopmom

[HomeAgain]

It is easier for military kids now.  We set up Skype sessions, they talk through common apps like Duolingo, and when old enough - social media.

 

The most important thing is to be proactive.  We moved rural-ish when our kid was starting middle school. We set up more invites to his friends and made more time to pick up the kids/take them to our house (a 45min drive one way).  We got him into an activity with other kids his age so he had a constant time outside the house.  We helped him develop an address book and planned events.  It wasn't the end of the world, but it meant more work on my part.

[J-rap]

Do you hope to remain involved in the town you're in now, or will another town be closer if you move?  And does your ds talk about having his own room?

 

I guess those are things I'd consider.  Also, would it be feasible to arrange a play date once/week?  (And would ds's friend's parents be willing to help make it happen?)

 

One thing we've noticed is that few of the friends our kids played with as young children remained their good friends.  Once they hit 8th grade or so, kids often seem to take different paths and realize they don't have as much in common anymore, and then they make new friends. 

 

Maybe in another year or two your ds will find that happening with him and his current friend, and will be ready for a move.

 

 

 

 

[Ellie]

 

Quick background:

We currently rent a house in town.  We’ve lived here for a long time and our rent is cheap.  We like it here, BUT: several years ago, the road in front of our house was changed and it is now a busy road and all 3 of our children are in the same room.  We now feel that it is time for our oldest to have a room of his own.

We own a piece of property about 30-40 minutes outside of town.  We had always planned to build a house out there.  In a few months, we will have enough money saved to build that house.

My concern?  We have lived in this neighborhood for a long time and our oldest has a best friend just a few houses away.  They spend a lot of time together—a lot.  I’m concerned that it would be detrimental to him for us to move to where he won’t have any friends close by. 

Has anyone moved to a more rural area when their kids were homeschooled and were entering middle school?  Any advice/wisdom/suggestions?

 

 

Well, homeschooled children are not in "middle school." :-) But yes, we moved to the other end of the state when my dc were 9 and 12 years old, from a neighborhood where they had lived since they were 1 and 4. They lived to tell about it.

 

Children whose parents are in the military move all the time. Children adjust.

[Sneezyone]

Totally depends on the child. I have one who moves and adjusts easily and one who doesn’t. We are moving next year and plan to stay put until the youngest graduates high school. He will not invest in friendships until we are stable and he needs deep, meaningful friendships for his mental health. That said, our kids have moved a lot. A singular move would concern me far less than the serial moves we’ve done all these years.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Sneezyone

[maize]

The study referenced in this report looks at correlations between childhood moves and adult outcomes. Kids ages 12-14 appear to be particularly vulnerable to negative impacts of a move:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/13/moving-as-a-child-can-change-who-you-are-as-an-adult/

 

 

Again, this is only one factor, sometimes a move is an overall positive for a family. Evidence does not however support the easy dismissal of concerns about the impact of moving on children because "kids adapt".

[Spryte]

I think your concerns are valid, too, and I moved a lot as a military kid. It wasn’t hard till middle school. At that age it was a bigger adjustment, and for the first time we moved to a very rural area. That was a huge change, on a lot of levels - definitely harder. The difference in the B and M school was huge, too.

 

But you’re not moving that far. The daily get togethers might change, if you’re no longer neighbors with the friends, but if you plan on driving at least weekly - I think that will ease the adjustment. Plan on lots of sleepovers and activities.

 

I’m familiar with the study maize posted, and don’t discount the potential for difficulty that moving at those ages present. At all. It’s a real concern.

 

But in your case, I think perhaps it’s a bit different - you will still be easy driving distance to the same friends, and more importantly - your kids won’t be changing schools. Those studies don’t include homeschoolers as the majority, I wouldn’t think. I think with those two advantages, you can probably minimize the potential damage and make the move into a positive for your family.

[QueenCat]

Military do move a lot, and that is a huge source of stress for military families.

 

I think OP's concerns are very valid. Friendships are a big predictor of happiness and good mental health for kids. Disrupting a positive friendship at a vulnerable age is not something to do lightly. Certainly the friendship would weigh more heavily in my book than whether or not the child gets a separate bedroom.

 

Most humans, kids included, can adapt to a wide variety of circumstances, but that does not mean that the adaptation is not stressful and difficult. When sources of stress in children are studied moving is one of the top ones.

 

I think"kids are adaptable" is used way too often by adults to minimize in their own minds the consequences of their decisions on kids.

 

None of this means that moving could not be the best decision for OP's family, but I think she is right to weigh the friend loss as a serious consideration.

 

I didn't say her concerns weren't valid. I do understand all of the above. I also know that attitude can play a major factor in it. Making new friends, while staying in contact with the old, is a good way to go for those on the move. 

[eternalsummer]

It will be hard.  We moved during the middle of DD's 6th grade last year; she was in a public school at the time and we moved 10 hours away (then again, then again, which sucked).  She was miserable.  I mean, daily misery miserable.  She is a pretty level-headed and upbeat kid, but she loved her friends and they loved her and she lost them.  It was bad.  I felt terrible.  

 

Eventually, after about a year of trying to live in various places that were not suitable, we moved back to the area.  We live about half an hour from her friends now, so she sees them twice a month or so, which is enough for her to feel like the relationship still exists, which is what she wanted.  

 

so yes, moving in the middle of middle school is bad.  Moving only half an hour away is probably not as bad - he can still go visit and be visited, really quite frequently if you're up to the driving.  

[lovinmyboys]

We just moved with my 11yr old. If it were just him to consider there is no way that we would have moved. He had such good friends where we lived and he has pretty much been very half hearted in any attempts to make new friends here. I really hope we don’t end up regretting our decision. Sometimes kids have to move in middle school, but I wouldn’t make the decision lightly.

 

On the other hand, we met a 6th grade girl here who was so upset that they moved here. Her birthday was about a month after they moved and I guess she cried most of the day. However, they are about 3 months in and she is loving it now. Still misses her old friends, but she has made some new ones here. Her mom says she has just blossomed here.

[Frosch]

Mine have been forced to just bloom wherever they are planted.  With the exception of the oldest, who I admittedly coddled way too much, they have thrived and made friends that they keep in touch with even though they move again.

Military kids don't have an option not to be resilient. 

[maize]

Military kids don't have an option not to be resilient.

I'm truly happy that your kids are doing well. Modern communication options are way better for keeping in touch than options when I was a kid!

 

This last sentence I quoted though...folks, it just doesn't work that way. Kids don't necessarily become resilient because that is what circumstances demand.

 

Some kids will be resilient.

 

And some won't.

 

There is no way to guarantee resilience.

 

The other options that your optimistic declaration ignores include depression and suicide.

 

They are options.

 

Some military kids end up with those options because the resilience option didn't work out for them.

 

 

I feel bad about being a downer on this thread. I wish I could agree with the cheerful "oh you know kids, they adapt, they're resilient"--but that just is not a truth to be relied on.

 

Overall, kids will be better helped when adults acknowledge that some events and circumstances--even very necessary ones at times--can be profoundly stressful for them. That doesn't necessarily mean avoiding the event or circumstance, but at the least it should help adults to be more aware and more supportive than they might be otherwise.

[eternalsummer]

I moved a lot as a kid - my parents were just nomadic, not military.  We moved every year or more often until I was 10.  Then we didn't move until after 7th, after I'd been in the same place for 3 years.  It was very very bad.  I'd gotten through the other moves okay; I was always pretty introverted and not that cool, but it was fine.  But the move in the middle of middle school was just miserable;  I was depressed.  We'd only moved 30 minutes away, but the school, friends, etc. were different.  My parents finally just moved back, and stayed until I graduated high school (in fact, my mom still lives in the house and my dad died there).  

 

Sometimes you have to move, and that's just what it is.  We had to move a year ago.  I wish we'd done it differently, though.  I am glad we moved back.  If you don't have to do it, don't.

[sassenach]

I’m with Maize. We had to move across country when my eldest was 10 and then again when she was 11. There have been long term consequences. Severe ones.

[Frosch]

I'm not saying that we don't support or are unaware of their feelings.

 

I am saying that our kids would rather live in the same house as their Daddy than hang out with friends.  It's a pretty easy choice for us.  Family trumps friends. Not moving isn't a option unless we want to maintain two households and live apart as a family.  

We make the decisions that are best for the family as a whole and help everyone to make lemonade.  It's worked for 21 years so far but thanks for the guilt.

[2squared]

We moved when my oldest was 11yo, so she started sixth grade in a new town. It was terrible for her, not great for my 4th grader, and fine for the younger three. My oldest is in 10th grade now, and has finally recovered. We moved her schools in 7th grade to try to improve her situation, and that did help. She spent the last two summers mostly alone at home recovering from her school years.

 

4th grade was OK for my ds, but 5th and 6th got worse and worse. We moved his school this year, and he is recovering as well. I think he will be back on track by the end of the school year.

 

We have some great job opportunities which would require us to move again, but we are passing in them. It's not worth it now that everyone is mentally healthy again.

[RootAnn]

We didn't move, but people around us have moved.

 

DD#1's best friend (who she already knew) moved in next door. It was great. Then, they moved again when the girls were both around 9. (They've moved again since - but stayed within 30 minutes or so of us.) They don't see each other as often as they like - although both will be able to drive by the end of the year. It definitely caused upheaval and was really tough for them.

 

DD#3 was friends with another girl on the block. (The other girl mostly just played with dd#3 when no one else was around. Very fair weather friend. But, dd#3 didn't always realize that.) Girl moved about 15 minutes away, but still saw dd#3 around at other activities. There is absolutely no friendship there anymore on either side. DD#3 was devastated for awhile and attempted to keep in touch. The whole relationship marked dd#3 and made her look at other friendships differently since.

 

It can be tough when you or the friend move. Definitely try to support the friendship, but don't be surprised if they grow apart with distance. And, don't be surprised if they are still hanging out when they both get their driver's licenses. It could go either way. It has here.  :coolgleamA:

[eternalsummer]

I'm not saying that we don't support or are unaware of their feelings.

 

I am saying that our kids would rather live in the same house as their Daddy than hang out with friends.  It's a pretty easy choice for us.  Family trumps friends. Not moving isn't a option unless we want to maintain two households and live apart as a family.  

We make the decisions that are best for the family as a whole and help everyone to make lemonade.  It's worked for 21 years so far but thanks for the guilt.

 

Well certainly if you have to move, that is different; everyone has to choose the least bad option sometimes.  That doesn't mean that choosing that option when there are other good ones is equivalent to not choosing it, or that the science about how it affects kids is incorrect.  It's not meant as a personal judgment, anymore than saying that breastfeeding is best for the baby scientifically is a personal judgment.

[Mabelen]

We moved to the opposite coast when my oldest was 13, from a a small private Pre-k-8 school where I taught to a public middle school. She didn’t want to move. She was very happy here and had good friends. It was difficult. She survived, and everything was fine. I think one important point is that we had to move. She knew that we really had no other choice. If it had been a non essential move, she might have harbored some resentment.

[Sneezyone]

I'm not saying that we don't support or are unaware of their feelings.

 

I am saying that our kids would rather live in the same house as their Daddy than hang out with friends. It's a pretty easy choice for us. Family trumps friends. Not moving isn't a option unless we want to maintain two households and live apart as a family.

We make the decisions that are best for the family as a whole and help everyone to make lemonade. It's worked for 21 years so far but thanks for the guilt.

If it works for your kids, that’s great. Throughout DHs military career we’ve moved a lot too. One of my kids is fine with that, one is not. Depression is a real risk for that child, so much so that we will not be moving after next year (even if it requires DH to geo-bach for a year in the middle) so DS can plant deep roots. We even waited 7y to have kids to reduce the number of moves they’ve experienced. It wasn’t long enough. In our 20y, I’ve known many milfams with high schoolers who’ve had to go so far as to send their kids back from overseas to live with family friends. After 20+ years yourself, I can’t imagine you haven’t seen the same. I’m greatful for those people who were real with us about the challenges of moving with older kids. Edited November 18, 2017 by Sneezyone

[Laura Corin]

If one does need to move, it's good to think hard about how to acknowledge and smooth the process. We took tips from Third Culture Kids and made a memory photo album for each boy. After we moved to Scotland, they would often look at the albums when they felt sad.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Laura Corin

[Carrie12345]

 

Has anyone moved to a more rural area when their kids were homeschooled and were entering middle school?  Any advice/wisdom/suggestions?

 

 

We didn't move, but we live in a pretty rural area, and I come from a very suburban area.  My kids are very busy with friends and activities.  We just drive a lot. A LOT.  Anything under an hour drive is considered normal.  60-90 minutes gets serious consideration.

 

For perspective, dd's BFF lives within our school district.  If they were both in the public school, it would still be a 40 minute drive each way for them to hang out at each other's houses.  There are no kids her (high school) age in our walking radius.  Our schooling choice doesn't have a whole lot to do with it as far as socializing goes.

[Sarah CB]

The study referenced in this report looks at correlations between childhood moves and adult outcomes. Kids ages 12-14 appear to be particularly vulnerable to negative impacts of a move:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/13/moving-as-a-child-can-change-who-you-are-as-an-adult/

 

 

Again, this is only one factor, sometimes a move is an overall positive for a family. Evidence does not however support the easy dismissal of concerns about the impact of moving on children because "kids adapt".

 

Interesting. We moved when my boys were 9, 12, and 14. My 14 year old thought his life was over. He was completely distraught. He's a kid who doesn't handle change well. He didn't socialize at all during the first year. He spent a lot of time alone. By the second year he began making friends and settling in. By the third year he was loving his life. We're in our fourth year here and he's in grade 12 now. I took him to the airport a couple of weeks ago for yet another solo trip and out of nowhere he told me that he was glad that we moved because it gave him the confidence to travel and try new things. He told me how comfortable he is traveling on his own and going into new situations where he knows no one. He said a lot of the kids he knew who graduated the year before are homesick and just want to go back home but he is confident that he'll be totally fine at whatever university he wants to go to and he can concentrate on enjoying his studies and new friends because of the things he's learned through this move.

 

When we initially told him we were moving he said we were ruining his life. He's a long-term planner and had his whole life planned out in our old city. It's a huge big deal for him to say he's glad we've moved.

 

Oh - and in the summer he told me he was counting down the days until the end of this school year. Not because he wanted them to go quickly, but because grade 12 was going to be such a fantastic year and he wanted to enjoy every day. He went from hiding in his room in grade 9 to being voted into school council and having a group of really fantastic friends in grade 12. 

 

We did decide, when we moved here, to put the kids in school. The homeschool population where we are now is very small and there weren't a lot of older kids. I didn't want my kids to be isolated (we left a very vibrant homeschool community) so we chose a small private school and they are thriving there.

[bettyandbob]

The experience is not the same for everyone. However dh and I both moved in middle school. And we both feel we had bad experiences due to that. We are old enough that I don't think there was ever a thought moving could or did affect us or that relationships and activities in our old neighborhoods mattered.

 

The other thing to consider is moving rural does affect how your DC develop autonomy. This will be really apparent for a DC in middle school. In an urban or suburban setting it is easier for an older child to go visit friends and start doing stuff on his own. He doesn't need mom to drive him. Moving rural means the child can't just go visit a friend when he decides. Doing that has to be planned out because Mom has to drive which means considering the needs of the rest of the family more carefully. It also puts mom in obvious control. While we know mom (or dad) are in control putting that power on display can cause resentment.

 

If you make this move, I would not say you are going to visit often. Often for you is likely not the same as often for your DC. Also visiting friends will now need to be heavily choreographed. Be honest and up front about the situation. Your DC is just not going to resume activity the same way and you should not suggest it.

 

I think you can move from town to country in middle school. You probably should be careful how you represent the move and seek out opportunities for DC in the new location.

[HomeAgain]

If one does need to move, it's good to think hard about how to acknowledge and smooth the process. We took tips from Third Culture Kids and made a memory photo album for each boy. After we moved to Scotland, they would often look at the albums when they felt sad.

 

We did very similar.  I made a video of all my kids' friends so they could see everyone on the ipad.  It was played often those first few months.

 

[maize]

I'm not saying that we don't support or are unaware of their feelings.

 

I am saying that our kids would rather live in the same house as their Daddy than hang out with friends. It's a pretty easy choice for us. Family trumps friends. Not moving isn't a option unless we want to maintain two households and live apart as a family.

We make the decisions that are best for the family as a whole and help everyone to make lemonade. It's worked for 21 years so far but thanks for the guilt.

I am truly sorry if my post prompted any guilt, that is certainly not my intention. I recognize that moving works out just fine for many kids, even most kids.

 

 

I disagree vehemently though with the assertion, repeated in various forms by several posters in this thread, that moving is not a concern for kids BECAUSE kids (generic, universal) are resilient/adaptable.

 

Research shows that moving can be a highly significant stressor to children. A parent asking for advice to help them make a decision about moving is not going to be well served by casual assurance that kids (generic, universal) do just fine with moves.

 

Because a not insignificant percentage of kids don't

 

Now, I personally have no opinion on whether or not the OP should move. I'm certainly not trying to scare her into staying put. A move could absolutely turn out to be a positive for her family. It is for many.

 

What I have repeatedly tried to emphasize is that her concern regarding moving a child away from familiarity and friends at a highly vulnerable age is legitimate and a factor to weigh carefully, along with other factors of course, in the decision making process.

Edited November 18, 2017 by maize

[Carrie12345]

I am truly sorry if my post prompted any guilt, that is certainly not my intention. I recognize that moving works out just fine for many kids, even most kids.

 

 

I disagree vehemently though with the assertion, repeated in various forms by several posters in this thread, that moving is not a concern for kids BECAUSE kids (generic, universal) are resilient/adaptable.

 

Research shows that moving can be a highly significant stressor to children. A parent asking for advice to help them make a decision about moving is not going to be well served by casual assurance that kids (generic, universal) do just fine with moves.

 

Because a not insignificant percentage of kids don't

 

Now, I personally have no opinion on whether or not the OP should move. I'm certainly not trying to scare her into staying put. A move could absolutely turn out to be a positive for her family. It is for many.

 

What I have repeatedly tried to emphasize is that her concern regarding moving a child away from familiarity and friends at a highly vulnerable age is legitimate and a factor to weigh carefully, along with other factors of course, in the decision making process.

 

And I really don't think there's any way of knowing which kids are which until it happens.

 

My stepbrother couldn't understand why my sisters and I were so upset when Mom sold the house I'd lived in since I was a year old.  He moved several times throughout his childhood.  I was TWENTY-THREE and heartbroken, lol.

 

Ironically, he now lives in what was HIS main family home!

[KungFuPanda]

Living rurally can be isolating for teens. When kids are little and can be happy with their family being their whole world, it’s great to have that outdoor freedom. For the parents who have each other and may be realizing a dream, it’s great. For a teen it can be downright depressing if they have no consistent access to friends.

[EmseB]

I think a lot of it has to do with expectations. Military kids grow up moving and expecting to move. That's not to say that they are immune to the emotions involved, but it's a different scenario than being uprooted from the only home and friends that you've ever known at a tricky age.

 

OTOH, I gave my mom hell for moving us between my sophomore and junior year of high school and it turned out to be a great deal for me. There's really no way to know how things turn out and sometimes adults need to make decisions that they think are best at the time.

[maize]

I think a lot of it has to do with expectations. Military kids grow up moving and expecting to move. That's not to say that they are immune to the emotions involved, but it's a different scenario than being uprooted from the only home and friends that you've ever known at a tricky age.

 

OTOH, I gave my mom hell for moving us between my sophomore and junior year of high school and it turned out to be a great deal for me. There's really no way to know how things turn out and sometimes adults need to make decisions that they think are best at the time.

I actually think the issue of kids facing negative impacts sometimes far into adulthood correlating with childhood moves is much more complex than whether the kid thinks the move is a good or bad idea or whether they give their parents a hard time about it or not.

 

Perceptions and attitude are only part of the picture.

 

My thinking is that the human neural system can sometimes really struggle to adapt to a new environment and especially to the loss of familiar social supports. We are hard wired to connect; take those connections away--connections to people, but also connections to and familiarity with environment--and stuff can start happening inside a brain that has long term impact.

 

Never having a chance to build those connections beyond the very small set of nuclear family attachments, as may happen for some children who move frequently, could potentially have even more problematic consequences.

 

Now, all of this balances with other positives and negatives in life, there's not going to be one ideal solition that fits every family.

 

I think the evidence is pretty strong though that moving, especially in the early years of adolescence, is an independent predictor of relatively negative outcomes :on average: not of course for every individual.

 

Sorry for the serial posting. Apparently this is something I feel strongly about--mostly with regard to parents being aware that a family move is not a minor disruption for a child that can just be glossed over by encouraging a positive attitude.

Edited November 18, 2017 by maize

[hellen]

We're military so move a lot. Over the years, I've learned that finding friends is the most important predictor of being happy in a location. You might only know in hindsight if a move was good.

[EmseB]

I actually think the issue of kids facing negative impacts sometimes far into adulthood correlating with childhood moves is much more complex than whether the kid thinks the move is a good or bad idea or whether they give their parents a hard time about it or not.

 

Perceptions and attitude are only part of the picture.

 

My thinking is that the human neural system can sometimes really struggle to adapt to a new environment and especially to the loss of familiar social supports. We are hard wired to connect; take those connections away--connections to people, but also connections to and familiarity with environment--and stuff can start happening inside a brain that has long term impact.

 

Never having a chance to build those connections beyond the very small set of nuclear family attachments, as may happen for some children who move frequently, could potentially have even more problematic consequences.

 

Now, all of this balances with other positives and negatives in life, there's not going to be one ideal solition that fits every family.

 

I think the evidence is pretty strong though that moving, especially in the early years of adolescence, is an independent predictor of relatively negative outcomes :on average: not of course for every individual.

I am trying to understand more, so please don't take this as defensiveness.

 

 

How do researchers control for circumstances of the move or other instability? In other words, how can we know it's the move itself and not the divorce, death, layoff, poverty, abuse, eviction, or whatever the disruption that caused the move?

 

When you say independent factor that to me would mean you'd have to know a butt ton of stuff about the family's inner workings and know that every other factor was equal *and* led to positive outcomes and the move was the only thing causing the negative outcome. Am I getting that right?

 

Also, the assumption the kids who move don't build connections outside the nuclear family is a big one that, to me, doesn't ring true to my experience or the experiences my kids are having, but I do know thay anecdote is not data. I also know a not small number of families that move a lot and have well adjusted thriving kiddos, so my perspective is likely skewed.

[maize]

I am trying to understand more, so please don't take this as defensiveness.

 

 

How do researchers control for circumstances of the move or other instability? In other words, how can we know it's the move itself and not the divorce, death, layoff, poverty, abuse, eviction, or whatever the disruption that caused the move?

 

When you say independent factor that to me would mean you'd have to know a butt ton of stuff about the family's inner workings and know that every other factor was equal *and* led to positive outcomes and the move was the only thing causing the negative outcome. Am I getting that right?

 

Also, the assumption the kids who move don't build connections outside the nuclear family is a big one that, to me, doesn't ring true to my experience or the experiences my kids are having, but I do know thay anecdote is not data. I also know a not small number of families that move a lot and have well adjusted thriving kiddos, so my perspective is likely skewed.

Those are good questions, and they highlight the complexity and difficulty of social science research. It is never possible to account for all possible confounding variables, though researchers do try. One study did note that children with more mobility in childhood had more negative childhood events in general (things like parental discord, divorce, etc.) which could of course contribute to the mobility. But then again mobility could be contributing to marital tensions. There's no sure way to untangle it all with absolute confidence.

 

What every study I have looked at has in common is a statistical correlation between number and timing of moves and adverse outcomes, one that holds true across socio economic classes and countries.

 

Maybe that is all just correlation due to other coexistent factors and not causation, but it's the best information we have at the moment.

[EmseB]

Those are good questions, and they highlight the complexity and difficulty of social science research. It is never possible to account for all possible confounding variables, though researchers do try. One study did note that children with more mobility in childhood had more negative childhood events in general (things like parental discord, divorce, etc.) which could of course contribute to the mobility. But then again mobility could be contributing to marital tensions. There's no sure way to untangle it all with absolute confidence.

 

What every study I have looked at has in common is a statistical correlation between number and timing of moves and adverse outcomes, one that holds true across socio economic classes and countries.

 

Maybe that is all just correlation due to other coexistent factors and not causation, but it's the best information we have at the moment.

That's very helpful, thanks!

 

I think that looking at the same information as you've described it here I'd be very hesitant to say that the move is an independent predictor, but I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

[sassenach]

That's very helpful, thanks!

 

I think that looking at the same information as you've described it here I'd be very hesitant to say that the move is an independent predictor, but I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(16)30118-0/pdf

 

Here’s a link to the study cited. You can read about how they adjusted the statistical analysis to factor in parental income, employment, mental health history, etc. it doesn’t look like they adjusted for divorce, which seems like an obvious one to me. However, I think the analysis took a lot of factors into account and it’s certainly the most complete data set that we’ll probably ever see.

[YaelAldrich]

http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(16)30118-0/pdf

 

Here’s a link to the study cited. You can read about how they adjusted the statistical analysis to factor in parental income, employment, mental health history, etc. it doesn’t look like they adjusted for divorce, which seems like an obvious one to me. However, I think the analysis took a lot of factors into account and it’s certainly the most complete data set that we’ll probably ever see.

Not to discount what the study says, but if you think you see an obvious factor that you think should have been examined, the researchers may have done so and factoring that in screwed up the results in a way that isn't helpful to them.  I'm not saying that they are being malicious, but social scientists can focus on the factors they want and kinda ignore the ones that might stir up trouble.

 

Signed,

- a social scientist's wife

[Frances]

I'll just add that several of our neighbors, all with three children, lived rural when the children were young and were planning to do it long term. But when their children got older, they found that it was just too hard to be so far away from friends and activities during the public middle school and high school years. So they all moved into the city and are still here today, even though their children are grown and gone.

[maize]

Not to discount what the study says, but if you think you see an obvious factor that you think should have been examined, the researchers may have done so and factoring that in screwed up the results in a way that isn't helpful to them. I'm not saying that they are being malicious, but social scientists can focus on the factors they want and kinda ignore the ones that might stir up trouble.

 

Signed,

- a social scientist's wife

This is too true!

 

 

I don't have time to go back and look now but in the case of this study I think they discussed being unable to include some likely relevant things because those were not in the data set they used (Danish government records of some sort).

Edited November 19, 2017 by maize

[Hilltopmom]

I'll just add that several of our neighbors, all with three children, lived rural when the children were young and were planning to do it long term. But when their children got older, they found that it was just too hard to be so far away from friends and activities during the public middle school and high school years. So they all moved into the city and are still here today, even though their children are grown and gone.

This is us. We moved into town last year because of the teens. It’s been so good for all of us!

They can hop on a bike and get to the library, mini mart, beach, CC, friends houses. Other families are more willing to drop off and pick up their kids or ours for things they can’t bike to.

I’m more willing to say yes to get together as and new activities because things are only 5-15 min away not 30-45. And teen stuff gets over later at night so it’s nice to not have a long late drive home.

We thought we’d stay in the country forever but I seriously love being in town!

[EmseB]

http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(16)30118-0/pdf

 

Here’s a link to the study cited. You can read about how they adjusted the statistical analysis to factor in parental income, employment, mental health history, etc. it doesn’t look like they adjusted for divorce, which seems like an obvious one to me. However, I think the analysis took a lot of factors into account and it’s certainly the most complete data set that we’ll probably ever see.

 

I have not been able to dig deeply, but to be completely honest, if they left out divorce as a possible causative factor for negative outcomes, I'm inclined to dismiss it out of hand without reading further.  You can't examine negative outcomes into adulthood without including divorce.  In their limiting factors the authors stated:

 

The underlying reasons for residential change, such as family dissolution, were also unknown.

 

That is a huge knowledge gap and really, to me, totally negates the conclusion that moving is the cause to any of the negative outcomes they studied.  If they don't know why the moves occurred, there's no way to tell if the move itself was the problem or not. Especially concerning divorce, custody battles, etc.

 

I know this sounds totally defensive because we move a lot, and believe me, I do not take it lightly that my kids are giving up an awful lot when they move, but independent of my own circumstances I really don't accept the methodology here. And if it is the most complete data set and the best info we've got, then I really don't think the conclusions that some in this thread are drawing from it are as certain as they were made out to be at first glance.