Honest question about divorce -- for women

[Nestof3]

When you hear of a couple getting a divorce -- someone other than your best friend or other than a couple you know well, do you:

 

automatically assume that the man is more to "blame"?

 

not think about who has the greater "blame"

 

or what?

 

Do you automatically take the "side" of the woman or remain totally neutral in your mind?

 

Thanks!

[Shelly in IL]

That is really too bad for the family. Maybe if I knew the couple well enough to have my own opinions about one of them - but really - I don't like to judge what other people have gone through.

[Julie in CA]

I don't automatically assume it's the fault of the husband, or the wife, but if I catch even a whiff of conversation regarding marital infidelity, I definitely have a knee-jerk reaction that places blame for the divorce squarely on the shoulders of the adulterer. I really have to watch myself about this, because I know that sometimes reports of affairs are simply gossip and not fact.

[Hillary in KS]

If I hear of a couple getting a divorce, I don't automatically assume blame.

 

I worry for the children. I pray for the family. I do wonder what happened.

 

But unless I know what happened, then I don't "take sides" or identify with either one of them.

[MamaT]

My thoughts automatically turn to the children, if there are any. I think it is a traumatic thing for a child to have to deal with.

 

I don't really blame anyone, unless I overhear gossip about infidelity (I try not to) and then I tend to have the same reaction as Julie.

[lynn]

Not knowing the situation. No sides taken. Sometimes people just drift apart and do not take active role in keeping a marriage alive and divorce just happens. Divorce is a very sad thing in our society.

[Tap]

I don't take sides, I just think it is sad. I hate the thought of how a married couple can go from wedding day to divorce. I have seen as many marriages start to take a turn for the worse because of the wife's actions as the man's.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I don't ever assume one is to blame over the other. Usually what each would say is the problem is really something far past the original reason they felt it was over...

 

I read a great article recently about divorce and really made me think about who may to be blame:

 

basically a woman left her dh and her mom told her to make a list of all her complaints about him. she did. then her mom told her to write beside each complaint HOW she had responded when her dh had done those things.

 

what an eyeopening way to see who's really to 'blame' for the anger and ill will in a relationship.

[LaxMom]

I remain pretty neutral. Even with information, you can't ever really know what goes on in someone else's marriage. Even in the instance of infidelity...

 

I know one couple who are great friends with their respective exes, who received a divorce from the said exes in 30 days by having their then-spouses file on the grounds of adultery. (Misdemeanor and $25 fine in MD, but it hastens the process.) (I'm sorry, that was so convoluted... it was IRL, too). All four parties were fine with the arrangement, the marriages were essentially continuing at that point because there was no pressing reason to dissolve them...

 

I know another couple who divorced with a lot of speculation about why. I cannot say with any certainty what went on in their marriage, but I do know the very crazy behavior she started showing (stalking my husband at work, calling him, showing up at our door, wanting him to provide her with information as to her ex's life, wanting him to come over and spend his off days at her house so her boys would have a man there when they got home from school:001_huh:, etc.). I know she was very vocal about telling his coworkers about various situations that turned out the be completely untrue...(like slip ups involving claims - to my husband - of him going to her house to abuse her, when he was actually on a trip with my husband... <insert smile and nod here>) He is remarried now, but she drove a wedge between him and his family, and many coworkers still will not even speak to him.

 

So, in that case, the squeaky, albeit less than... "accurate" wheel got a lot of support while the person trying to maintain some dignity and privacy became the pariah, just because he wouldn't fight back. Sometimes claims are made simply to win people to the one side. Unless you are one of the parties involved, you can assume your information is inaccurate.

[joannqn]

I know of one divorce where we supported the wife because of the things she was telling us (he was violent and dangerous, get a restraining order against him, etc). It helped that her kids lived primarily with her and our kids were friends with hers.

 

Since then, we've gotten to know the real her better and don't believe most of what she said. She's unreliable and untrustworthy. You really have to watch your back around her. We've grown weary of her and are very careful with boundaries and what we say in her presence.

 

We wish we would have known the husband better then because he's basically a good guy with issues just like everyone else.

 

It just showed us that even when you think you know a person, you can't always know what's really going on.

[Karen sn]

Totally neutral.

[*********]

You asked for what we thought when we heard of someone divorcing; I'll give you my thoughts.

 

I think first off, that there'd better be a good reason for the divorce. By which I mean, someone cheated. IMO, that's the only grounds for divorce. At least, as I understand it in the Bible. And before anyone asks, no I don't know about 'what if he committed a crime' or 'what if he beats his wife'. Let's face it, that's not USUALLY why people get divorced. I know it DOES happen, but it's not the norm.

 

Then, I think of how awful it would be to be involved in a marraige that has been tainted with adultery. It must be horrible.

 

It all makes me so sad. My parents are divorced. My mom was unfaithful. So no, I do not automatically take the side of the woman.

 

I think of how God hates divorce. How painful it is, most especially for the children (if there are any). I myself have two stepchildren. While my husband was never married to their mother (or anyone else besides me, just to be clear here), they live the same type of reality that so many other children do. Two homes, back and forth, never having both of their parents 'together' again. It's painful. And let me tell ya, being a stepmom has it's challenges, too.

 

I hate divorce. My husband and I are both Christians. In our earliest years of marriage, we were very immature, and used to thow the word 'divorce' around during arguments. It has long since been banned in our house. It is not an option for us, and frankly, it is not something I ever want to put my children through. Yes, marriage gets tough. It is even down right hard sometimes. But I think too often, people are too selfish.

 

That's what I think.

Edited March 2, 2009 by bethanyniez
spelling

[Audrey]

When you hear of a couple getting a divorce -- someone other than your best friend or other than a couple you know well, do you:

 

automatically assume that the man is more to "blame"?

 

not think about who has the greater "blame"

 

or what?

 

Do you automatically take the "side" of the woman or remain totally neutral in your mind?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Unless I know them and have an idea of the history, I remain pretty neutral. I don't care what gossip is going around.

 

I do get my inner frown going on if they have kids, though. I can get downright judgemental and lose respect for people very quickly who divorce or break up and can't act like grown-ups for the sake of the kids. :glare:

[Mabeline]

I agree the children are my first thought.

[dangermom]

I mostly get sad for them and the kids. Quite a few of the divorces I've known of have been complicated, sad things without one person being to blame. One couple I knew started off fine, but she developed mental problems, it got messier from there, and she was unbalanced and did the leaving. Neither of them handled it well, but the underlying cause wasn't anyone's fault. :sad:

[Desert Rat]

I usually don't think one way or the other unless I know them a bit better. My first thought is that the situation is just so sad and then the how the kids will be affected.

[Tammy]

if it isn't someone close to me. If it was someone that mattered to me....I would already know the 'whys', LOL.

[OnTheBrink]

My first thought is, "I wonder what happened?" Then, I usually don't think about it any more, unless I hear someone talking about it. However, at my church, few talk about such things. The only time I actually know is if one of the people involved says something, or if the situation requires church discipline.

[farmgirlinwv]

I generally assume the *blame* is shared. This has proven to be true in most instances I know.

[Colleen in SEVA]

Honestly... I've never heard of a divorce where blame was completely on one person. When I hear of a couple getting divorced, I assume they have both made bad decisions at some point and neither is willing to put forth the effort to fix those decisions. I think each person enters into a marriage with certain ideas in his/her head of what would be grounds for divorce, the problem lies when there is a discrepancy between the two. Infidelity is not a deal breaker for every marriage.

 

When my parents divorced, they agreed to stay parenting partners for my sake, and though they both remarried, they never spoke badly about the other. They never let THEIR bad decisions become MY problem. I have many happy memories of BOTH parents AND step-parents at birthday parties, school functions, parent-teacher conferences, graduations, my wedding, and other events. My parents got married for the wrong reason (mom got pregnant and family pressured them to get married), and getting divorced was the best decision they ever made.

 

When someone tells me they are getting a divorce, I am always sad for their kids because most people who get divorced put their kids in the middle of the war. I also feel sad for the husband and the wife though, that they were put into whatever circumstance lead to the divorce.

[HSMom2One]

If I hear of a couple getting a divorce, I don't automatically assume blame.

 

I worry for the children. I pray for the family. I do wonder what happened.

 

But unless I know what happened, then I don't "take sides" or identify with either one of them.

 

:iagree: What she said.

 

Lucinda

[Tree House Academy]

Other than feeling sad for their kids if they happen to have any. Knowing how it feels to be a child of divorced parents...and having a child from whose father I am divorced really makes my heart go out to the kids. It is never easy for kids - even when the divorce is "easy" for the parents. :(

 

I can't imagine immediately thinking one party is at fault when I don't even know the situation. There are two sides to every story...even my own. ;)

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

:iagree: What she said.

 

Lucinda

 

:iagree: me too.

[Rosie_0801]

To me, blame is hardly important at that stage of the game. What matters is how they handle the divorce. Will they be civilised about it?

 

Rosie

[klmama]

I don't assume anything. I've seen too many marriages fail to think it's always the man's or the woman's fault.

[lionfamily1999]

My first instinct is to say I'm sorry. It feels, to me, like being told someone is dead, before their time. IOW, I don't concern myself with blame and I try VERY hard not to speculate on whether or not it's really over (I've known many couples that tell you one day they're divorcing and that weekend they're cuddling and lovey dovey).

 

I guess I feel more for their marraige than for them... wow, that's a horrible insight to have into myself, but that's how it seems. Like watching something beautiful and unique die, or get tossed in the trash, depending upon their approach.

 

I was once invited to a divorce party. I found the whole thing disturbing, but then if I equate divorce with death, then that makes perfect sense. I'm not big on happy wakes either.

[Sweetpeach]

Most times, I'm just plain old sad when I hear of a marriage ending.

 

A few times, I've been very happy to hear that a toxic situation is all done.

 

Taking sides seems like an exercise in futility . . . I wish the best for the children, for healing, for post-divorce care, for counselling so that life for everyone involved can press forward in a healthy manner.

 

T

[Mommy22alyns]

I don't think about assigning "blame."

[Joanne]

I do not assume anything and I don't take disclosure from either party as full or accurate. I know from first hand experience and having been in a fresh divorce setting with 30+ others that people are VERY quiet and select about their whole stories.

 

 

I think first off, that there'd better be a good reason for the divorce. By which I mean, someone cheated. IMO, that's the only grounds for divorce. At least, as I understand it in the Bible. And before anyone asks, no I don't know about 'what if he committed a crime' or 'what if he beats his wife'. Let's face it, that's not USUALLY why people get divorced. I know it DOES happen, but it's not the norm.

 

My xh did cheat, so I am excused using your criteria. However, I have personally found this the "adultery only" stand (yes, I know you use your understanding of scripture to back it up) is often very, very hurtful to divorcing Christians.

 

Then, I think of how awful it would be to be involved in a marraige that has been tainted with adultery. It must be horrible.

 

It is.

 

I think of how God hates divorce. How painful it is, most especially for the children (if there are any). I myself have two stepchildren. While my husband was never married to their mother (or anyone else besides me, just to be clear here), they live the same type of reality that so many other children do. Two homes, back and forth, never having both of their parents 'together' again. It's painful. And let me tell ya, being a stepmom has it's challenges, too.

 

Yes, it is hard on my children. I've been a step mom, too. I don't "count" my husband's children as my step kids; they were adults when I came into his life, but I was a step mom to my xh's children, one of whom lived with us briefly. Very challenging.

 

I

hate divorce. My husband and I are both Christians. In our earliest years of marriage, we were very immature, and used to thow the word 'divorce' around during arguments. It has long since been banned in our house.

 

My xh used to use that as a weapon in discussions. I never did. Not until I was actually going to do it. It is banned as a weapon in discussion in my marriage.

 

 

It is not an option for us, and frankly, it is not something I ever want to put my children through. Yes, marriage gets tough. It is even down right hard sometimes. But I think too often, people are too selfish.

 

That's what I think.

 

I used to think that, too. I was fighting every day "for my marriage" and to not put my kids through the pain of divorce and co parenting. I did that for years. It was no *less* of a challenge than the type they have now with their parents apart and remarried.

 

Having divorced and been in discourse with many divorced Christians, I have changed my thinking about the percentage of "selfish" divorces.

[Tami]

It only takes ONE person to completely trash a marriage through infidelity, abuse, or addiction.

 

If abuse has been going on toward the wife, normally she has been silently protecting him for years. Time turns pain into anger, especially when everyone thinks he's a "great guy." Well, I can tell you that abusive spouses are the suave, slick types who do not display this behavior anywhere but at HOME.

 

Anyway, in this situation, the abuser always paints the wife as "crazy," and as an "exaggerator." He discredits his wife, and many times it works, since outsiders do not witness the abuse that happens in the home: mental, physical and emotional. The loyalty of a wife, however misguided, can come back to bite her in the butt at that point.

 

If there is physical abuse, addiction, or infidelity, I will advocate, help, and go to bat for the wronged spouse. While nobody is innocent or perfect, it only takes one person to trash a marriage. The wronged spouse needs support and love during a time when their world is falling apart, many times despite their desire to be the best spouse possible in a difficult situation. In that type of situation, "neutral" would be very painful to a spouse who has put up with so much, watched their marriage slip away despite their best effort, and it in a crisis situation. I will support that person all the way.

[Trivium Academy]

I'll be frank, whomever speaks to me about the divorce, what they say and don't say really tells a lot. If it's not someone I know well, I don't even assess blame but just emphasize with the person. If it's someone I know well, I would already know a lot of what has transpired and what they are doing about it, including how the kids are being treated in the situation.

 

No break-up between two people is 100% a single person's fault, the blame is shared no matter what transpired between the two persons-it takes two to tango. There are different levels of assigning fault though and I think it's a huge difference between legal and moral standards. Just today I had to make a major decision moral vs. legal.

 

When faced with someone else telling me about their divorce, I emphasize but I don't necessarily assess blame- what's the point? If I don't live with the consequences, it is of no consequence to me. I don't gossip about others so in turn I also don't accept what others' gossip about. I'll listen but in the end, I'll mind my own business.

[*********]

My xh did cheat, so I am excused using your criteria. However, I have personally found this the "adultery only" stand (yes, I know you use your understanding of scripture to back it up) is often very, very hurtful to divorcing Christians.

 

Ah, tis not my criteria.

 

I was simply sharing my thoughts, like the op asked for. Not at all intending to be "very, very hurtful to divorcing Christians". But I do have a question, Joanne. Your quoted words above seem to indicate that you believe that the Bible allows for divorce for reasons other than adultery. I'm curious if that's that case or not. Honestly. I'm not trying to argue, or be 'snarky' or whatever. And I don't even want to discuss remarriage, since that's a completely different topic. But just because my understanding that the Bible only allows for divorce in the case of adultery might be 'hurtful' to a divorcing Christian doesn't make it wrong. I sincerely would like to hear your side of it, if indeed we disagree and you believe that scripture allows for divorce under other circumstances.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I would try not to blame anyone, even if I think I know what happened. Everyone knew I left my ex to run away with my lover, but it was just what he told people because the truth would have gotten him kicked out of his church. Particularly in cases of abuse, people lie.

 

That said, I think I have a prejudice against the parent that doesn't stay with the kids.

[Joanne]

It only takes ONE person to completely trash a marriage through infidelity, abuse, or addiction.

 

If abuse has been going on toward the wife, normally she has been silently protecting him for years. Time turns pain into anger, especially when everyone thinks he's a "great guy." Well, I can tell you that abusive spouses are the suave, slick types who do not display this behavior anywhere but at HOME.

 

Anyway, in this situation, the abuser always paints the wife as "crazy," and as an "exaggerator." He discredits his wife, and many times it works, since outsiders do not witness the abuse that happens in the home: mental, physical and emotional. The loyalty of a wife, however misguided, can come back to bite her in the butt at that point.

 

Thank you.

[Joanne]

Ah, tis not my criteria.

 

I was simply sharing my thoughts, like the op asked for. Not at all intending to be "very, very hurtful to divorcing Christians". But I do have a question, Joanne. Your quoted words above seem to indicate that you believe that the Bible allows for divorce for reasons other than adultery. I'm curious if that's that case or not.

 

Adultery is the named reason for divorce. I do not believe that implies exclusive reason.

 

There are many reasons for divorce that speak to great pain, disconnect, dysfunction and no hope. I do not believe those marriages are God's design; divorce has *already* happened.

 

God hates divorce not because of *divorce* but because of the marriages that make divorce necessary.

 

All that is left is paper.

 

IMO, paper is not marriage. There are plenty of paper marriages that are not God's design. And I also believe there are marriages that are not *on* paper.

[Pajama Mama]

It is rarely a one sided divorce. Yes, there are cases when a spouse has cheated or is abusive. But most folks that I know, get divorced because they just don't fit together anymore(I don't know THAT many divorcing couples). If it is a close friend or relative I'll already know the details. If it is a casual friend or neighbor, I try to stay neutral. I've learned from experience that the ex-spouse who trash talks about the other is usually as responsible if not more so for the break up. I'll just nod and say "Gosh, I'm sorry that happened."..."But you look really good. Is that a new dress?" I try to change the subject if the ex bashing begins.

[lionfamily1999]

Adultery is the named reason for divorce. I do not believe that implies exclusive reason.

 

There are many reasons for divorce that speak to great pain, disconnect, dysfunction and no hope. I do not believe those marriages are God's design; divorce has *already* happened.

 

God hates divorce not because of *divorce* but because of the marriages that make divorce necessary.

 

All that is left is paper.

 

IMO, paper is not marriage. There are plenty of paper marriages that are not God's design. And I also believe there are marriages that are not *on* paper.

In the OT, when they were outlining the rules, there were two chances for a woman to divorce, on the grounds that she could not love her husband. The first time she shaved her head and I think returned to her parents, but I'm not sure. The second time she was banned from getting married again, and I think she had to separate herself from her tribe, but again, I'm not positive, it's been awhile since I read that.

 

Anyway, just fyi. :)

[Renthead Mommy]

When you hear of a couple getting a divorce -- someone other than your best friend or other than a couple you know well, do you:

 

automatically assume that the man is more to "blame"?

 

not think about who has the greater "blame"

 

or what?

 

Do you automatically take the "side" of the woman or remain totally neutral in your mind?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Gender is a non issue. Some of my best friends, even now, are guys. If I was going to pick a side, it certainly wouldn't be based on gender. There are some really psycho women out there. And some guys that have no business being married. And vice versa for both situations. But if a couple we are friends with are divorcing, and I had to 'pick' who was going to get us in the 'custody battle of friends' as it so often happens, I wouldn't just chose the woman because I'm a woman. That seems like a crazy idea.

[*********]

Adultery is the named reason for divorce. I do not believe that implies exclusive reason.

 

There are many reasons for divorce that speak to great pain, disconnect, dysfunction and no hope. I do not believe those marriages are God's design; divorce has *already* happened.

 

God hates divorce not because of *divorce* but because of the marriages that make divorce necessary.

 

All that is left is paper.

 

IMO, paper is not marriage. There are plenty of paper marriages that are not God's design. And I also believe there are marriages that are not *on* paper.

 

Joanne, we pretty much could not disagree more. But, since the op only asked for our thoughts when we hear of divorce, I'm not gonna hijack her thread to debate scripture with you. I'm sure we'll have the chance some other time, in some other thread. :)

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

Gender is a non issue. Some of my best friends, even now, are guys. If I was going to pick a side, it certainly wouldn't be based on gender. There are some really psycho women out there. And some guys that have no business being married. And vice versa for both situations. But if a couple we are friends with are divorcing, and I had to 'pick' who was going to get us in the 'custody battle of friends' as it so often happens, I wouldn't just chose the woman because I'm a woman. That seems like a crazy idea.

 

:iagree:

 

Interesting enough, I know more men that have sole-custody of their children than women. Including my own brother, whose ex lost visitation because of her abuse and alcoholism. These abuses were brought to CPS by my niece's doctor and the hospital staff who have treated her for many years and were backed up by police reports. My sister in law has always been a very charming woman and you'd never guess that she would be in the situation that she is in. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors...

 

When I hear that someone is getting divorced, I don't make ANY assumptions.

[Kate CA]

When you hear of a couple getting a divorce -- someone other than your best friend or other than a couple you know well, do you:

 

automatically assume that the man is more to "blame"?

 

not think about who has the greater "blame"

 

or what?

 

Do you automatically take the "side" of the woman or remain totally neutral in your mind?

 

Thanks!

 

No, I don't automatically take the woman's side by any means. In fact, the two divorces that happened within our circle of acquaintances were large families and the mother made the choice to either leave completely or go out partying with other men effectively ruining her family's lives. I was stunned. As a mother that would be the very last thing on the planet I would ever do--purposely hurt my children in that way. In a third situation, the man has the lion's share of blame. I am genuinely grieved when I hear someone is getting divorced, but I don't automatically jump to any conclusion on fault. Men and women are quite capable of sinning equally.

[Nestof3]

Thanks ladies for being so responsive on this! I really appreciate it. Also, I know the discussion about divorce and remarriage and all of that can stir up controversy and hurt, and that was not my intention.

 

Just so you know, my husband has been divorced and remarried me and we have had sole custody of our eldest since we were married (over 10 years ago). I believe it was a very sacrificial thing his mom did to place him where she thought was best. Though I have failed numerous times at being the "best" and quite honestly at times been the "worst," I am very thankful for the chance to be his mom and for the relationship we have today.

[rafiki]

.

[Joanne]

Joanne, we pretty much could not disagree more. But, since the op only asked for our thoughts when we hear of divorce, I'm not gonna hijack her thread to debate scripture with you. I'm sure we'll have the chance some other time, in some other thread.

 

Thank you, I decline.

 

I've been shamed, abused and scrutinized by those who wholeheartedly disagree with me on this issue.

 

Fortunately, I clearly do not worship or honor the same God they do.

[6packofun]

I don't think of blame but I do get very curious about why a couple would be willing to go through a divorce and "give up" (if that's accurate, and I believe many times it is), especially if there are children involved. Mostly I'm just very sad for them. It's different if there is a specific reason mentioned and then I have a reaction related to that, too.

[Nestof3]

Thank you, I decline.

 

I've been shamed, abused and scrutinized by those who wholeheartedly disagree with me on this issue.

 

Fortunately, I clearly do not worship or honor the same God they do.

 

Joanne,

 

I just wanted to say that I think it's more of a matter of interpretation than of not worshipping or honoring the same God. I'm sure we are all "off" on some things.

[abbeyej]

I think I remain pretty neutral unless I know something of the real circumstances. I tend to think these things are only rarely entirely one-sided.

[Guest janainaz]

I understand there are valid reasons for separation, but I really hate the idea of anyone getting divorced without jumping through hoops to save a marriage. I don't automatically assume it's the man at all, I believe that if a marriage fails that both people are responsible for that. Most vows include "for better or for worse". Well, I guess sometimes forever is just too long to put up with the for worse part. I think often when people marry they have a fairytale illusion in their mind and at some point reality catches up - marriage is difficult at times.

[Joanne]

I believe that if a marriage fails that both people are responsible for that.

 

I can tell you unequivocably the above statement is not truth.

 

It takes 2 to make a marriage but one can absolutely destroy it.

[Tami]

Physical abuse in a marriage is NOT rare. Addiction is not rare. Are you saying that the spouse brings on, deserves, or is responsible for the other's abuse/addiction? Many divorces I have seen are because of these issues.

 

I would hope that a battered woman needing to talk about the emotions she is going through would find more in a friend than one who changes the topic to how she looks or how nice her dress is.