Question about young adult misbehavior.

[SKL]

Sticky situation!  My kids have a friend who just turned 18, still lives with his mom, senior in high school.  We all love this guy.  He gets into funks and benefits a lot from spending time with my girls, who are 16 and 17.

He was here several weeks ago.  The kids hung out in the basement, which is our teen hangout.  Then my kid drove him home.

Yesterday, we found a bottle of vodka hidden down there.  Nobody here ever has vodka.  Since his mom does have alcohol in her house, I figured he was the likely source and that he brought it here a few weeks ago.  My kids admitted that he brought it.

So ... he is now an adult.  My kids say his current relationship with his mom is a bit rocky.  On the other hand, he lives there and she would probably want to know if he's taking her alcohol and using it or sharing it illegally.  (The legal age here is 21, unless your parents are present and serving it to you.)

I think that if he were 17.9 years old, I'd ask his mom if this was hers, so she'd know what had happened.  But he's 18, so doesn't that change things?

The other thing is ... my kids drank this and drove?  I love this guy, but what the hell.  I don't want my kids being served alcohol, especially since they are driving when they're with him.

How would you approach this?

ETA of course I am addressing this with my own kids, but I'm not sure what to do about the other kid / his mom.

Edited December 24, 2023 by SKL

[scholastica]

First things first. You don’t mention disciplining your own kids. I hope you have taken the keys after your kid drank and drove. It would be a good long time before my kid or kids had access to a vehicle. There would probably be additional penalties for drinking underage without my permission. 
 

As far as the other kid, I might let her know that I was none too happy that her kid brought alcohol to my house and supplied it to my kids. That right there is a real problem for both of them. Legally he is an adult. That changes a lot of things. 

[Just Kate]

Honestly, as the mom of a 19 yo ds and 16 yo dd, I would be more angry with my kids for drinking and driving. I know that many may disagree with me, but around here, many teens try alcohol, so the girls drinking is not shocking to me.  My kids have always been fairly honest with me about it, which I’ve appreciated. But my number 1 rule, no matter what, is that they don’t drink and drive and they don’t ride with someone who has been drinking. I tell them I will gladly come pick them up - no questions asked. 
 

(Editing to add - I also talk with my kids a lot about why it is best for them NOT to drink at all!! But I figured they would both try it in high school)
 

So I think in your situation, your girls drinking and driving would my my first priority. I doubt I would tell the 18 yo mom about the vodka. I may just tell him you know he left it at your house and get rid of it. I wouldn’t give it back to him (unless his mom found out and requested it, I guess). 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Just Kate

[Terabith]

Do you know your kids drank the vodka and drove?  Could visiting 18 year old have been only one to partake?  Or driver abstained?  Because the drinking and driving is a WAY bigger deal than the alcohol, and I think the alcohol is a big deal, though I wouldn’t go tattling to parents.  

[regentrude]

I would not address this with the friend's parent. My bar for tattling to a stranger about their adult kid hangs pretty high. I would tell the guy *directly* that he should never again bring alcohol to my house and supply my kids.

I wouldn't have a problem with an older teen drinking alcohol. But if my teens drank and *drove*, there would be serious consequences for them. (And to not do that is their responsibility, they can't blame the friend).

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by regentrude

[ScoutTN]

I would have serious consequences for my own kids and I would speak directly to the other kid, not to his mom.

Yes, he’s a legal adult, but he did something illegal and wrong in your home. He needs to hear some words of correction from an actual adult, maybe extra so if his relationship with his own mom is hard and he won’t listen. 

[Heartstrings]

I think you should take it up with the 18 year old not his mom.  Tell him directly that his drinking is not your problem but you don’t want him bringing it to your house or to your minor children.  That’s disrespectful to your house, not to mention illegal.  
 

 

[Bootsie]

If you are not 100% certain of the source of the alcohol, I would not speak to the other parent (unless the parent was a close friend who I could chat with about how it was a sticky situation).  The mother will notice that something is amiss when she goes to use the bottle of vodka; If the mother has bottles of vodka that she isn't noticing are going missing, then there is probably a bigger problem there than this one situation.  

I would focus on my own children who broke the rules in my household.  Was the bottle empty when you found it?   I would be curious if he is the source of the alcohol why the bottle was left behind.

[ktgrok]

36 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

 The mother will notice that something is amiss when she goes to use the bottle of vodka; If the mother has bottles of vodka that she isn't noticing are going missing, then there is probably a bigger problem there than this one situation.  

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that? We likely have a bottle of vodka here, but honestly I'm not sure. We have a buffet that we store all the liquor in, and it only gets opened when we are making drinks...which is maybe 2-3 times a year, usually Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc when I might make cranberry margaritas or bourbon milk punch or something, and DH might offer his brother some bourbon in his eggnog or make moscow mules or something. So maybe every few years we buy a bottle of hard liquor and it sits in there until someone uses it. DH tries to keep whatever someone might want for a mixed drink, so we have bourbon, tequila, vodka (I think), light and dark rum, vermouth, gin, etc. But I honestly don't know for sure exactly what, and would not notice if a bottle was missing until I next went to open that cabinet, which might be several months apart if that. And even then, would only likely notice if it was my tequila - I'm pretty much a margarita only person at this point. 

I don't think that indicates some "bigger problem". 

[ktgrok]

Address the issue with the 18 yr old directly. He put YOU at legal risk, because if something bad happened and it was found out he was drinking while underage on your property YOU could be liable. That is totally unacceptable. PLUS he was wiling to ride with someone drinking? AND willing to risk your daughter's life by having her drive him after drinking? 

This wold be a very serious, very not fun conversation, probably with him alone and again with him and your kids. 

[City Mouse]

I talk to the 18 yr old. I’d tell him that the next time he brings alcohol to your house that you will call the police on him, and then do it. He may not realize or care that there are legal implications on him. If it ever happens again I would not allow him in your home, or at very  not allow him around your kids without your direct supervision. I don’t know that it matters if his parents are included in the discussion unless they are the ones providing him the alcohol. 

My DS, who is now 21, has had many friends who are younger than him, and for a time several were under 18. He had I had many discussions about  how he needed to be careful because of potential legal implications for him. This included discussions about providing alcohol or weed (which is legal 21+ here), driving while intoxicated especially with a minor in the car, crossing state lines with a minor, and intimate activity with a minor. I have always told him that his friends are welcome in our home at any time, but that no illegal activity is allowed. 

[Arctic Bunny]

5 minutes ago, City Mouse said:

I talk to the 18 yr old. 

(snip)

My DS, who is now 21, has had many friends who are younger than him, and for a time several were under 18. He had I had many discussions about  how he needed to be careful because of potential legal implications for him. This included discussions about providing alcohol or weed (which is legal 21+ here), driving while intoxicated especially with a minor in the car, crossing state lines with a minor, and intimate activity with a minor. I have always told him that his friends are welcome in our home at any time, but that no illegal activity is allowed. 

This.

The drinking/pot age here is 19. It’s important to me that DS18.94 knows the laws around buying alcohol and what the big picture is if he shares that with a friend who is not yet 19. And if that friend then drives intoxicated. And kills someone or themselves.

[wintermom]

Since you are dealing with your own kids, I won't comment. I'd sure be disappointed in my own dc's behaviour and poor choices.

What are you thinking of saying to the boy's mom? Are you suggesting that it was her alcohol? What do you hope to achieve in the discussion? You really only have control over who enters your home. Don't let the boy come over anymore is about all you actually could do - that and try to stop your dc from seeing him, I'm thinking (certainly stop them driving your vehicle). 

ETA: I'm a little confused that you continue to say that you "love this guy" when he went behind your back to do this and put your kids' lives in danger by suggesting they drive. He'd be out on his ear and no more displaced "love" there - certainly no second chances. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by wintermom

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

If the mother has bottles of vodka that she isn't noticing are going missing, then there is probably a bigger problem there than this one situation.  

Not really, lol, plenty of people have fully stocked bars and may not notice if there's a bottle of vodka the next time they open it versus a bottle and a half of vodka. 

52 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 And even then, would only likely notice if it was my tequila - I'm pretty much a margarita only person at this point. 

I would for sure not notice if someone took all the gin 

17 minutes ago, wintermom said:

 ETA: I'm a little confused that you continue to say that you "love this guy" when he went behind your back to do this and put your kids' lives in danger by suggesting they drive. He'd be out on his ear and no more displaced "love" there - certainly no second chances. 

Good kids who are worthy of love and friendship do stupid things sometimes. Every. single. young adult on earth does something incredibly stupid at least once, whether their parents ever know about it or not. 

OP, I wouldn't talk to his mom. I would talk directly to him, after telling my own kids I was going to (give them one last chance to 'fess up if it wasn't him, lol). And I'd be invading the teen hangout space a lot more often for a while. 

[Annie G]

I’d talk to the boy- partly because he’s an adult and partly because if his relationship w mom is rocky then telling her isn’t going to fix the situation. You have a better chance of reaching him. You’ll come across as caring- you care for your girls, and you care for him. People make mistakes, and him hearing from you that you still care might go a long way if he’s feeling like his mom doesn’t care. 
Beyond that, do you think it was a one time thing or has it been ongoing? 
The teen years are a thrill ride for sure. 

[Terabith]

And while I think the bar with 16 and 17 year olds is that you never, ever, ever drive after even one drink, I think it's important to start laying the groundwork for what constitutes "after drinking."  I think people in general need to know that the guideline is at a minimum, not driving for an hour after one drink, or two hours after two drinks, and what constitutes a drink (one beer, a four ounce glass of wine, a shot of liquor), and they need to know that many mixed drinks contain more than one shot of hard liquor.  

[SKL]

4 hours ago, Terabith said:

Do you know your kids drank the vodka and drove?  Could visiting 18 year old have been only one to partake?  Or driver abstained?  Because the drinking and driving is a WAY bigger deal than the alcohol, and I think the alcohol is a big deal, though I wouldn’t go tattling to parents.  

Now they are saying the kid who drove did not drink anything.  I'm not sure I believe it though.

[SKL]

I'm glad everyone agrees that I shouldn't tell the boy's mom.  I didn't think I should either.

I'll be talking to the young man about this soon, and my kids are aware.

[freesia]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

Now they are saying the kid who drove did not drink anything.  I'm not sure I believe it though.

Sorry. Teens can be so hard. 

[Bootsie]

4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I'm not sure what you mean by that? We likely have a bottle of vodka here, but honestly I'm not sure. We have a buffet that we store all the liquor in, and it only gets opened when we are making drinks...which is maybe 2-3 times a year, usually Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc when I might make cranberry margaritas or bourbon milk punch or something, and DH might offer his brother some bourbon in his eggnog or make moscow mules or something. So maybe every few years we buy a bottle of hard liquor and it sits in there until someone uses it. DH tries to keep whatever someone might want for a mixed drink, so we have bourbon, tequila, vodka (I think), light and dark rum, vermouth, gin, etc. But I honestly don't know for sure exactly what, and would not notice if a bottle was missing until I next went to open that cabinet, which might be several months apart if that. And even then, would only likely notice if it was my tequila - I'm pretty much a margarita only person at this point. 

I don't think that indicates some "bigger problem". 

I said if "bottles" of vodka are missing--not a single bottle.  I was thinking of how likely would it be, if this young man's mother's supply is the source of the vodka bottle, that it will be a repeated incident.  While both can berious, I think it is different if you are dealing with teens who sneak a bottle of alcohol and try it once and a teen who is repeatedly getting a supply of alcohol--I would approach those two situations differently.

  I can see how a young person could take a bottle from the parents' liquor cabinet and it not be detected for months, and then, the parent even wondering if they were mistaken that they had a bottle.  If someone is repeatedly able to take a bottle, I would think that either there is either a large amount of alcohol that is stored in the house without an adult ever drinking or looking at the supply OR the adult in the house is buying and going through a lot of alcohol, not noticing that bottles are repeatedly missing.  

 

[wintermom]

4 hours ago, katilac said:

 

Good kids who are worthy of love and friendship do stupid things sometimes. Every. single. young adult on earth does something incredibly stupid at least once, whether their parents ever know about it or not. 

Sure, everyone one is worthy of love, whether you want to label this as a 'good' kid or now.. This is a sneaky, dangerous kid who does not have the best interests of SKL's family at heart at all. I don't see how he's benefitting from bringing alcohol to a 15 and 17 year old. They should are hell aren't benefitting.

I'd be VERY careful about ever having him in my house. The consequences for this kind of illegal and dangerous behaviour brought into my own house would be very harsh. I would have a very tough time ever trusting them again. 

[Terabith]

6 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Sure, everyone one is worthy of love, whether you want to label this as a 'good' kid or now.. This is a sneaky, dangerous kid who does not have the best interests of SKL's family at heart at all. I don't see how he's benefitting from bringing alcohol to a 15 and 17 year old. They should are hell aren't benefitting.

I'd be VERY careful about ever having him in my house. The consequences for this kind of illegal and dangerous behaviour brought into my own house would be very harsh. I would have a very tough time ever trusting them again. 

I think it's important to note that @SKL's kids are both high school seniors, the same as this kid is.  I think that kinda changes the social dynamics a bit.

[gardenmom5]

His mom will know if her booze is disappearing.  right now, I'm not sure if I'd say anything or not.

I would address him directly from the standpoint of he brought booze to your house, served it to your underage kids, someone drove after drinking . . . all while trying to hide it from you - the parent/homeowner and the person who would have been legally liable if anything happened.  that needs a zero tolerance policy.
He needs to either get it through his head that under no conditions is he to ever do that again - or he can't come to your house because YOU cannot be legally liable for his misdeeds.

[gardenmom5]

8 hours ago, SKL said:

Now they are saying the kid who drove did not drink anything.  I'm not sure I believe it though.

I sure wouldn't believe them . . . 

 

[pinball]

18 hours ago, SKL said:

Sticky situation!  My kids have a friend who just turned 18, still lives with his mom, senior in high school.  We all love this guy.  He gets into funks and benefits a lot from spending time with my girls, who are 16 and 17.

He was here several weeks ago.  The kids hung out in the basement, which is our teen hangout.  Then my kid drove him home.

Yesterday, we found a bottle of vodka hidden down there.  Nobody here ever has vodka.  Since his mom does have alcohol in her house, I figured he was the likely source and that he brought it here a few weeks ago.  My kids admitted that he brought it.  (Not 100% sure but let's say I'm 99% sure.)

So ... he is now an adult.  My kids say his current relationship with his mom is a bit rocky.  On the other hand, he lives there and she would probably want to know if he's taking her alcohol and using it or sharing it illegally.  (The legal age here is 21, unless your parents are present and serving it to you.)

I think that if he were 17.9 years old, I'd ask his mom if this was hers, so she'd know what had happened.  But he's 18, so doesn't that change things?

The other thing is ... my kids drank this and drove?  I love this guy, but what the hell.  I don't want my kids being served alcohol, especially since they are driving when they're with him.

How would you approach this?

ETA of course I am addressing this with my own kids, but I'm not sure what to do about the other kid / his mom.

You probably don’t want to hear that I don’t think either girl should be driving for a few months…

I’d call his mom and tell her. I don’t care if he’s 18 and an “adult” or if he has a Rocky relationship with his mom. He bought alcohol into your home and provided it to your 16 & 17 yo daughters. 
 

I’d tell him he’s never to provide alcohol, pot, tobacco, vapes, pills, etc to your DDs or bring it into your home even for his own use.
 

If I decided he could come back into my home, everyone would be socializing in & among the family, on the main floor…not hidden away in the basement for a few months.

[BusyMom5]

Turning 18 does not make you magically an adult.  This is not an independent person, it's not even a college student- it's a high school senior who is making dangerous choices.  I would absolutely call his mother and share what has happened- she has some responsibility for procuring the vodka that was consumed by minors who decided to drink and drive.  

People die because of decisions to drink and drive.  Families are destroyed.  It is the one thing I've told mine to never do!  I'd rather go get them or pay Uber.  

[sassenach]

So did the driver at first admit to drinking and then switch it? I would put 99% of my energy into my kids and about 1% into the guy. Alcohol will always be around but the good sense to not drink and drive is an internal issue. Your OP is way too focused on the kid and my guess is your kids can smell it so they’re deflecting onto him instead of taking responsibility for themselves. 

[Toocrazy!!]

The drinking and driving would be my main concern as well. Alcohol is everywhere. Almost all the college kids I know have fake ID’s. Getting alcohol is not going to be a problem. Being responsible if you choose to drink is the big issue for me. 
I’m not sure if I’d speak to his mom, but I would absolutely explain to him the liability of providing alcohol to under age people and bringing it into your house as your guest. 
18 year old high school students are not even close to being “adults”  in my mind, except legally. And that opens a whole other can of worms. 

[TexasProud]

I guess my question is also how do you know they drank and drove?  Couldn't they have just drank it and slept?? 

[SKL]

3 hours ago, sassenach said:

So did the driver at first admit to drinking and then switch it? I would put 99% of my energy into my kids and about 1% into the guy. Alcohol will always be around but the good sense to not drink and drive is an internal issue. Your OP is way too focused on the kid and my guess is your kids can smell it so they’re deflecting onto him instead of taking responsibility for themselves. 

No, I assumed all 3 had drunk just based on how my kids are.  But then they both told me that one kid tried it but spit it out because it tasted so horrible, which is also somewhat believable.  That is also the kid who usually drives when they go out with friends.

Anyhoo.  My kids have not always told the truth under pressure, and besides, had it tasted good, she probably would have drunk it.  Whether she would have then driven, I am not sure.  My kids have been taught and have the intelligence to understand why they should not drive after drinking, but that doesn't guarantee that they won't ever act stupidly.

I agree that knowing how to responsibly use alcohol is the important thing for my girls.  The OP wasn't really about my girls' discipline ("adult" was about the boy, "sticky" because up until this month, he was a minor and his mom is a friend of mine).  Assume I've addressed it in considerable depth with my girls.

That said, I may have been tardy as far as discussing "designated drivers" with them.  It's a bit odd to tell your minor kids about deciding which of them should not drink when nobody in the group is supposed to be drinking.  Not that they don't know all the reasons not to drink and drive, and not that I haven't told them before that I'd give them a ride with no questions asked if they were ever in a pickle.  But I didn't think, in advance, to address how to handle consumption at my house followed by driving elsewhere.  For one thing, we don't normally have alcohol here.  And their friend was free to spend the night (I had offered.)  Silly me though.

Edited December 24, 2023 by SKL

[maize]

I would talk to the 18 year old not his mother. This is about the behavior of an adult that happened on your watch, on your property. Address it adult-to-adult, and from the perspective of an older adult mentor.

[SKL]

46 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I guess my question is also how do you know they drank and drove?  Couldn't they have just drank it and slept?? 

It wasn't a sleepover.

[katilac]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:17 PM, Bootsie said:

I said if "bottles" of vodka are missing--not a single bottle.  I was thinking of how likely would it be, if this young man's mother's supply is the source of the vodka bottle, that it will be a repeated incident.  

 

Ah, sorry, I did not catch that you were speculating. 

On 12/23/2023 at 8:20 PM, wintermom said:

This is a sneaky, dangerous kid who does not have the best interests of SKL's family at heart at all.  

 I can't agree that sneaking one bottle of vodka to a friend's house makes a young adult mad, bad, and dangerous to know. This, on its own, would not have me banning him from my house. 

And I think you probably know more sneaky, dangerous kids than you realize (by your definition). 

On 12/23/2023 at 5:11 PM, SKL said:

Now they are saying the kid who drove did not drink anything.  I'm not sure I believe it though.

I'd probably believe it, simply because they had such an easy out for driving - he changed his mind and he's going to sleep over. 

13 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

I would absolutely call his mother and share what has happened- she has some responsibility for procuring the vodka that was consumed by minors who decided to drink and drive.  

We actually don't at all know where the vodka came from. 

If it did come from her house, she doesn't have responsibility unless she gave it to him. 

[regentrude]

14 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

his mother...she has some responsibility for procuring the vodka that was consumed by minors who decided to drink and drive.  

Alcoholic beverages are not firearms that need to be locked up safely so that an 18 year old can't access them. The mother has no responsibility unless she handed the bottle to her son. "Procuring" alcohol for one's own use doesn't require locking it up in a safe. Keeping it secured from toddlers, sure.

Why do we even assume it came from the mother?  18 year olds may have 21+ friends who could easily have bought it for them, and it may not have anything to do with the mother.

Edited December 25, 2023 by regentrude

[El...]

On 12/23/2023 at 5:48 PM, Terabith said:

And while I think the bar with 16 and 17 year olds is that you never, ever, ever drive after even one drink, I think it's important to start laying the groundwork for what constitutes "after drinking."  I think people in general need to know that the guideline is at a minimum, not driving for an hour after one drink, or two hours after two drinks, and what constitutes a drink (one beer, a four ounce glass of wine, a shot of liquor), and they need to know that many mixed drinks contain more than one shot of hard liquor.  

This has me thinking. Thank you. It's easy to end up with an abstinence only approach to alcohol. I need to include some more information around here myself. 

[Dmmetler]

5 hours ago, El... said:

This has me thinking. Thank you. It's easy to end up with an abstinence only approach to alcohol. I need to include some more information around here myself. 

One side effect of having professor parents is that despite growing up in a "no alcohol, ever" home, I also got a lot of advice about things like how long it took to not be intoxicated, which drinks have higher vs lower alcohol contents, how to stretch out a drink to avoid drinking more than you want, what things work best for absorbing alcohol and reducing it's effects, don't ever put a drink down on a table and come back to it later, always go with a bottled beverage that is sealed when you get it if a guy offers to get you a drink, etc. 

 

Because they'd had enough experience to know that being smart and, well, a total nerd was NOT protection against being in difficult situations and making choices that may not be what you'd make at a different time/place. 

 

I've tried to pass that on, because, well, same thing. And every college L has taken classes at has tried to do that, too. 

[Rosie_0801]

My brother always took a box of ginger beer to parties because it looked the part. Other people drank most of them, but somehow never learned to bring their own non-alcoholic drinks.

[wathe]

What are the legal penalties for providing alcohol to minors in your state?  Because that's what this 18yo has done.  

Here, the legal repercussions can be serious.  

I would be having a very hard conversation with the 18yo (legal adult).  He needs to know that this is behaviour with potential real legal consequences, and it is behaviour that you will not tolerate.  Especially in your home - as that may also cause legal repercussions for you.