“she is a hard woman”…..what would this mean to you?

[Ottakee]

This weekend I went camping and hiking with a friend, her sister and her brother and his girlfriend.

We had a great time.  This is the first time I really interacted with her sister.  Sister is 14 years old than my friend and she is what many would call a “hard woman”……hard looking features, rough language, etc.

What hit me though was what someone told me several years ago……”A hard woman is most often a woman that has had a hard life”

As I talked with her some this weekend, that certainly fit.   She was helping to raise you her siblings, volunteered out to care for other children for weeks at a time, dropped out of school and had to make her own way at 15.  Was driving school bus for their rural district at age 18 and then attending a class at the high school in the middle of her day just so she could earn her high school diploma.

The more I got to know her though, the more I could see how loving and caring she is and how she would do anything she could for her younger sibling, etc.

Just my ramblings that often we judge people by their appearances without really getting to know them or their story.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Ottakee

[GoVanGogh]

My female boss told me, when I was pregnant, that motherhood would soften my personality. I was basically on my own at age 15. My parents had a violent divorce, I was bounced around between extended family, abused, left for good at 18 and didn’t look back. I was 35 when my boss told me that. It always felt like an odd thing for her to say. My child ended up premature due to HELLP syndrome and has mild cerebral palsy. My boss’ comment came flooding back years later, at a homeschool park day when an incident happened. I won’t go into details here, but the incident upsets me to this day. I have told my DH several times since then that I think motherhood actually made me “harder,” not softer. I feel like I have had to fight for my son, for therapies, for insurance coverage, etc. It’s not that I am hard. I cried the other day when a friend was telling me about losing her senior dog. I cried last week when my dog caught and killed a baby bird. I think every woman is half “soft” and half bad-ass. It depends on which side most people see. 

[YaelAldrich]

Hardness and caring often go hand in hand.  Oftentimes the hardness happens because they have cared too much and too long and for safety's sake pull inward and make a shell. 

[J-rap]

I often think of hardness and caring as going together too.  I think the hardness is a result of needing to be tough in order to survive or get through really difficult circumstances.  But the need to be tough is also a result of trying to do the right thing despite your circumstances.  And wanting to do the right thing comes because you care.

Edited April 30, 2023 by J-rap

[Jean in Newcastle]

It means something different to me. A hard woman or a hard man is someone who is judgmental and unyielding. It has nothing to do with having had a hard life the way I define it. PS- it also has nothing to do with looks or physical ability in my definition. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Jean in Newcastle

[fairfarmhand]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

It means something different to me. A hard woman or a hard man is someone who is judgmental and unyielding. It has nothing to do with having had a hard life the way I define it. PS- it also has nothing to do with looks or physical ability in my definition. 

Me too. Some of the roughest toughest people I know are the most generous and loving.

[Arcadia]

I would interpret “hard woman” as hard to please rather than the person is stoic and/or had a hard life.

[SKL]

I think having a very hard life can lead to that kind of personality, but I also think it can present in a person who is short-sighted, selfish, and/or ignorant.  I think long-term self-medicating with drugs or alcohol can make a person eventually present that way also.  Often part of the "hard" side is that they managed their household by beating their kids into shape.  Just based on people I've known personally.

I also know lots of people who've had a hard life but would not be viewed as "a hard woman."

Edited April 30, 2023 by SKL

[Ausmumof3]

To me, a hard woman would mean someone who wasn’t loving, kind, or caring and who was judgmental. They might not necessarily be hard-looking.  I would used strong woman to define the kind of person you are talking about. 

[MercyA]

To me, a "hard woman" is one who is not sympathetic to human weaknesses, or one who lacks sympathy / empathy in general. 

I would say a woman like you describe has had a hard life, but would not necessarily call her a hard woman.

[Murphy101]

The only time I’ve heard a woman referred to as being a “hard woman” is by men.  Maybe that is why I often find selfish unkind men make for some very hard women in their lives.

Some of the hardest women I’ve ever known became hard by giving every ounce of their softness to others and getting nothing back.  That kind of love that says we should be grateful bc it will make us stronger for having endured it.  Like there’s some badge of honor given out for putting up with having love taken advantage of.

What a load of crap. 

So to sum. When I hear that’s a “hard woman” what I think is she endured loving people who treated her like crap and at some point got lot more selective about what crap she will put up with.  Good for her!!🎉

Never had it associated with language or looks.

[Guest]

When I hear someone described as “hard”, I think form follows function, so the hardness grew from necessity at some point. For example: someone has a life in which they are exposed to the elements daily, like a rancher or a ship operated for seafood, etc., their face and probably body will look hardened due to exposure and physicality demanded by the job. 
 

I don’t necessarily think a hardened appearance definitely leads to a hardened personality though.  

[Hannah]

To me there's a difference between being a "hard" women and being a "tough" woman. 

A "hard" woman is emotionally closed off, unapproachable, unwilling to show vulnerability and someone who doesn't care for others. 

A "tough" woman is strong, resilient, can be bad-assed, but also kind and compassionate.  She may a bit gruff in her manner, but definitely cares for others.

[Pawz4me]

I've heard it used both ways --

To refer to someone who has taken whatever life has thrown at her and kept on going, often in a stoic sort of way. And I've also heard it in reference to someone who is very hard nosed, judgmental and unyielding. So I think it can go either way, but I agree with @Hannah that "tough" is perhaps a better definition of the former.

I've never seen it used as a reference to looks.

[Jaybee]

Various thoughts: Some people never bother going beneath the surface. No-nonsense does not mean hard; sometimes the fluffy stuff gets burned off, but the real woman is still there underneath. Some of us are not "gushy," which others might interpret as hard. I've known some "hard" women who are harsh, judgmental, unable to be empathetic. I've known some "tough" or "strong" women who have suffered hardship and have a steel base of strength running through them--and they might seem unempathetic because they don't have a lot of patience for whiny, but are generally generous of spirit, kind, and loving.

ETA: I don't think most people use that phrase as a compliment. It's usually meant as the harsh definition. But often, people criticize people they don't understand with a quick and shallow judgment, rather than trying to get to know them.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Jaybee

[marbel]

I think of a hard person as someone who is not caring, has high/unrealistic expectations of everyone, does not offer praise or kind words easily if at all.  I don't equate it to their appearance. 

I have known people who have had hard lives, and sometimes that shows in their appearance (as Quill said above) but I don't necessarily think of them as hard people. I think of them as strong people. 

[teachermom2834]

I think if it as someone who is hard on the people around them- mostly kids but could be spouse /grandkids. Just a difficult person that is harsh with people and judgmental and not likely to give grace for large or small infractions. 
 

Sometimes when I want to give a brief explanation of my childhood without lots of details I will say “my parents were hard” or “my mom was hard” or “my dad was hard” and I don’t mean they had been shaped by the elements. I mean they were hard on me. 

[Grace Hopper]

I’ve heard this term, “she’s a hard woman,” used by men when they are describing a woman that they might be interested in but can’t make headway with. In such cases it’s not a compliment, but a complaint. And the same woman described by other women would be said to have “lived a hard life.” There’s a subtle but definite difference between the two statements. I can’t remember ever hearing another woman describe someone else as “a hard woman.”

[Grace Hopper]

10 hours ago, GoVanGogh said:

I think every woman is half “soft” and half bad-ass. It depends on which side most people see. 

I love this and agree. I feel like motherhood brought out a stern confidence in me. And as I have aged, I have gained a very clear notion when and where to draw lines others may not like. 

[marbel]

Just musing more on this: I know a woman who has had a pretty hard life and looks it - her skin and hair have not been cared for, her clothes are basic and not necessarily flattering, she is not fit - that's not a criticism of her, just a descriptor; all those factors* put together add up to a "hard" look. Her personality is somewhat brusque - she has no time for nonsense - but I would not call her a hard woman because she is as kind and loving as can be.  The fact that she doesn't look all soft and lovely has nothing to do with how she actually is.

By this I mean - lots of people are not fit, etc, but take some care with their appearance, don't have red, roughened skin, etc. Again, I'm just describing the "hard" picture. It's all those things together that make this woman look "hard" as in having lived a hard life with no time/funds for nice clothes, salons, makeup, etc. 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by marbel

[Carol in Cal.]

To me, ‘hard’ in this kind of context means lacking in compassion and logical in a way that betrays that.

So, for instance, not being moved by someone’s plight, but only thinking that they brought it on themselves (where most people would be both); or coming home from two years away and realizing immediately that your aunt is past due to go into a nursing home, but not feeling sorry that this will be difficult emotionally for her, and that she is leaving her home and neighborhood of 70 years for a cramped space with strangers.  

[Indigo Blue]

I don’t know what “hard woman” means to me or what it really means in our area. I tend to think it means a difficult person. 

I mostly wanted to say that a lot of these posts are so insightful to me regarding what women go through in their life experiences and how it affects their personality. 
 

I can see myself in that. I know who I am inside, but I now know to keep that part protected as a direct result of life experiences. When I am around certain people where I feel safe, I feel myself slowly reverting to my true personality. It’s rare, though. 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, marbel said:

I think of a hard person as someone who is not caring, has high/unrealistic expectations of everyone, does not offer praise or kind words easily if at all.  I don't equate it to their appearance. 

I have known people who have had hard lives, and sometimes that shows in their appearance (as Quill said above) but I don't necessarily think of them as hard people. I think of them as strong people. 

An appearance like that (for any gender) would be described by me as “weathered”. 
 

Another synonym for a hard person (again for any gender because I don’t see what gender has to do with any of this) is “embittered “ (which leads to being judgmental etc). Not everyone who has had tough experiences becomes embittered. 

[Ottakee]

Thanks for all of the dialog.   Interesting to see what it means to others.

I do think we tend to judge others based on appearances/first interactions and don’t really get to know the person.

[wintermom]

A "hard woman" to me is someone who is unforgiving, demanding, bordering on cruel. 

ETA: It means exactly the same for a man, in my eyes. A hard man or hard boss is unforgiving, demanding and cruel in many ways.

Edited April 30, 2023 by wintermom

[Jean in Newcastle]

Now sometimes someone’s bitter soul can be etched on someone’s face in a permanent scowl etc but that can happen just as easily on someone who is perfectly made up and coifed. 

[NorthernBeth]

3 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

I’ve heard this term, “she’s a hard woman,” used by men when they are describing a woman that they might be interested in but can’t make headway with. In such cases it’s not a compliment, but a complaint. And the same woman described by other women would be said to have “lived a hard life.” There’s a subtle but definite difference between the two statements. I can’t remember ever hearing another woman describe someone else as “a hard woman.”

I especially agree with the first part.  A man saying... " Ooh, she is a hard woman!"   I might take that to mean someone who is no-nonsense, can't be bullshitted or sweet-talked,  not interested in flirting or playing games.   I would not necessarily assume that she might come off as "hard" to another woman.  I don't think I have ever heard a woman refer to another woman as "hard".   Maybe that is a regional thing?  I have heard women described as tough, but that doesn't have the same connotation to me.  A lot of people seem to be equating hard with cold or uncompassionate.   I think of hard as more like "difficult to get along with"  or possibly "not easily fooled"  rather than mean and uncaring.   

 

[Indigo Blue]

Someone can also have a serious face on the outside that doesn’t reflect the softness and sensitivity on the inside. 
 

As in, someone may appear to have a certain countenance, but that doesn’t reflect what they really feel on the inside. 

[wintermom]

I'm kind of guessing that this expression probably has regional nuances to meaning and intent. I have never actually hear anyone irl say this. I've heard it used in American TV/movie/songs (country music probably). 

Edited April 30, 2023 by wintermom

[Ottakee]

29 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I'm kind of guessing that this expression probably has regional nuances to meaning and intent. I have never actually hear anyone irl say this. I've heard it used in American TV/movie/songs (country music probably). 

Likely could be.   I hear it often.   Mostly in the more rural/farm settings….and Interestingly, mostly about/between lower to modest income women.  Then again, most rural people are lower to modest Income.

I know it is very stereotypical but if I saw Appalachian woman people get an image in their head.   Clean but simply dressed, very basic hairstyle, no make up or manicures, rougher skin and hands, etc.

[ktgrok]

15 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

Hardness and caring often go hand in hand.  Oftentimes the hardness happens because they have cared too much and too long and for safety's sake pull inward and make a shell. 

Totally this. It's a protective thing. When I meet someone I'd consider "hard" I think they probably have lived through something hard. 

[ktgrok]

Wasn't Marilla described as a hard woman, in Anne of Green Gables?

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Ottakee said:

Likely could be.   I hear it often.   Mostly in the more rural/farm settings….and Interestingly, mostly about/between lower to modest income women.  Then again, most rural people are lower to modest Income.

I know it is very stereotypical but if I saw Appalachian woman people get an image in their head.   Clean but simply dressed, very basic hairstyle, no make up or manicures, rougher skin and hands, etc.

I've heard it used in the sense you described, and the context would be similar to what you say here--rural, lower income, etc. (though not Appalachian), and I am probably related to a few women who would've been described that way (especially one branch of the family). Sometimes these women are very nurturing. Often they look hardened because they are heavy smokers. 

I've also heard it used in nearly every other sense described in this thread too. 

[kathyl]

I use the term to describe the personality more than the looks. 

I had a boyfriend in high school who was very sweet and affectionate.  7-8 years later when I met up with him again, he seemed like a different person.  And the word that kept popping into my mind was 'hard'.  Very hard.  I didn't really understand it because he still looked about the same.  He just didn't act the same.  At All.  He was closed off and seemed to have lost his sense of humor and would say very critical things out of the blue.  It was striking, the change, becuase he was so young.