I think I'll just "retire" after this kid raising thing - (spin off: discouraged about going back to work)

[Ann.without.an.e]

I've thought on this a lot lately and I'd love someone to brain storm with here. 

I never had a career or post high school education. I got married at 19 and had dd a year later. I've been homeschooling for almost 20 years and by the time youngest graduates it will be a total of 30 years of mommy-hood and 25 of homeschooling. I've been tossing around this idea of what life will look like when  the nest is empty. I can't imagine going back to school (without a single college course to my name) at almost 50. My kids all either live close to home or plan to live close to home and something they've expressed to me is that they hope to have more support from us as grandparents than I had. I had almost no outside support as a mom. No hands on grandparents, nowhere my kids could go for the weekend or a night away, I was mommy 24/7/365 and I homeschooled (or am currently homeschooling) them all through high school. I don't regret my decisions. My kids and I are very close, I wouldn't change a thing.

I know this is a little against the norm but I have no real career path, no education, and I'd be trading in too much to go work full time in retail for a low wage (unless I absolutely had to for financial reasons) so I don't know that I'll pursue anything after the kids are gone. By the time ds graduates I'll most likely have a grandkid or two. I want to be there for them and my kiddos. I also love to garden and cook and I know I will find plenty to fill my time. I'd love to volunteer some as well.

For a while I felt guilty about shifting my plan to remaining home but I'll have put in 30 years of, no kidding, 24/7/365 and I don't really feel so guilty about it anymore. Most of my adult life has been about everyone else and everyone else's needs and schedules and desires and maybe I need some me time and time to just focus on DH more as well? 

The only hiccup to this plan is retirement. We will be fine financially as long as DH is working but he is 8 years older than me and we don't have a ton saved for retirement. We plan to save a lot more as kids leave and budget frees up. I'm a little concerned about not putting in the social security for my own retirement but I'm also not sure that it is worth it for a lower wage job anyway? For what I save gardening and cooking at home and keeping things on the cheap, I'm not sure picking up a low wage retail sort of job would really put us ahead very much. 

End of ramble. Feel free to brainstorm with me. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Ausmumof3]

100pc. I know plenty of people who do this and they are literally what holds families together and the people who care for people who aren’t sick enough for hospital but can’t care for themselves etc etc. 

I think as long as you can afford it it’s a totally legitimate choice and to be honest is what I had planned and would have done if DH hadn’t changed career when he did making work a financial necessity. I have to be honest I do sometimes feel slightly resentful. I worked so hard doing 100pc everything when the kids were little. Now I’ve got to the stage where it’s a bit easier I was looking forward to having that but instead we have a whole new set of challenges. But that’s just life and we have to make the best of what we get.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[Carol in Cal.]

That is totally legit!

Also, you should be able to get SS on your husband’s record.  Unless you work for a long time, you might not be able to top what you would get that way anyway.  I’d run the numbers, myself, if that’s why you’re considering this.  

Just make sure that if something happens to him you are still OK financially.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Carol in Cal.

[Night Elf]

I think the attitude stems from the SAH vs. WOH moms. Once women were expected to always be home. Then it flipped and women got to work outside the home and couldn't understand why any women would choose to remain at home and all the negatives they associated with that which I won't go into here or it will derail the thread. I did try to work post homeschool and none of my jobs worked out. Truly I am happy at home as long as I have things I love to do. I'm lucky that DH works from home so we do things together like have lunch or go for a walk on his break. Just sitting in the room and talking with him with him while he works is nice. I'm lucky that me not working is feasible for our finances. I just bought a book titled The Joy of Not Working: A book for the retired, unemployed, and overworked, by Ernie J. Zelinski. It's an older book, published in 2003, but it sounds like a fun book and I spent less than $5 for it. Now that I've made the decision to not work, I feel freer. It's hard to explain.

[Carrie12345]

I’ve been having very similar thoughts. I always, even up into the last few years, thought that I might go back to school while the last one or two were finishing up homeschooling, and go into one of two fields that I found interesting and rewarding until dh was ready to retire.  But the past few months have me leaning away from employment.  I just don’t think I could put up with the workplace at this point.

I do still intend to take at least some classes, because I enjoy that. And I’ll probably always volunteer with various organizations.  I can even imagine taking up some temporary or short term work to shake things up.  But 20 years (with 7 to go) has really gotten me accustomed to doing what I want, when I want, mostly how I want.

No matter what I do, half of dh’s ss benefits (assuming all that is mostly intact at the time) will be more than I’d qualify for myself.  The next 5 years will determine whether or not our savings will need more oomph, and I’m going to be home for that time anyway.

I can’t say that I feel guilty about it. I just feel… weird. Abnormal. Like I’m not going to have anyone of my generation-ish to relate to. And that’s a little scary.

Dh and my kids think I’m nuts for not embracing it more, and I get where they’re coming from. But, for the past 20 years, I’ve been able to connect with groups of other weird people doing this weird homeschooling thing. Later in life, I can connect with other retirees. But 50-ish to 65-ish or more? That’s a long time to be an outlier.

[Pawz4me]

My homeschooling days ended in (IIRC) 2013 when youngest DS went to an early college high school program. I was 50 and I never went back to work. I'd kinda sorta planned on a part-time job, but various life events happened that continued to make it make more sense for me to not have my time tied up, and DH was totally on board with me keeping my time free. He's the first to admit that he liked having me home handling lots of things that freed up his time in the evenings and weekends. I did have a decently good career before kids and have SS earnings of my own, but mine is a pittance compared to what I'll be able to draw by claiming half of DH's. One thing to think about is disability. Those of us who devote ourselves to raising our families or caring for elderly family members get screwed if we become disabled. And here I'm not talking so much about not being able to draw SSDI as much as I am about not being able to qualify for Medicare at an early age. Someone who qualifies for SSDI is eligible to receive Medicare two years later, regardless of their age. But those of us who don't have recent paid work credits can't do that. It's not a hugely big deal if you have employer provided insurance through a spouse, but it's one of those "what if the worst happened" things to think about. But I have no regrets at all about not going back to work. I find plenty to do to keep me as busy as I want to be. But I'm an introvert who's perfectly happy spending huge chunks of time alone.

As @Carrie12345just posted, I have at times felt like an outlier and haven't known how to describe myself. SAHM doesn't seem right when your kids are grown, and retired doesn't feel quite right when I didn't walk away from a paying job. But now that I'm almost 60 I have settled on the retired label and use it w/o qualms.

[Laura Corin]

I can completely understand that.  I went back to work when I was 47, having not worked for money for fourteen years, so a much shorter period, and I wasn't sure it would be a positive move.

I'm glad I did go back to work, despite the disadvantages (demands of adult children, aging parent, etc.).  My husband was earning a good salary until he was in his mid-fifties (when I was 48) and then he was laid off.  He managed to find short gigs thereafter, one of which he had to leave for moral/legal reasons.  Then.... nothing.  It's tough out there for well-paid people in middle age: companies can save a lot of money by bringing in people who are earlier in their careers and earn less.  I don't earn nearly as much as Husband did, but it has made all the difference to family finances.  We are just about breaking even, rather than using up retirement savings.  Husband receives SS/ UK state pension at the end of this year.

When I went back to work I took the first job I could, then took a short Microsoft course before applying for administrative jobs.  I finally managed to get an admin job at the local university, then moved to a better-paid job there.  I expect to work there until I'm 67 and receive my SS/UK pension.

[Guest]

It’s a valid choice but there are some potential pitfalls. My dh is also 8 years older than me and there are possibilities attached to that that cause me to feel insecure. I now wish we had gotten long term disability insurance, which we do not have. He was once such a strong, healthy guy I admit I foresaw no potential for that to change significantly for the worse. 
 

I didn’t have a compelling or prestigious career to re-enter; it is actually why I felt I wasn’t the best poster to speak to the other thread. I got only an AA and paralegal cert, beginning when I was 38. I do not earn a ton of money and we would be in a bad place if we had to live on my income only. Frankly, I do regret all of this because I feel insecure. Dh is a contractor and his earning capacity has shrunk with time, unlike other professions where decades in the field increase your prestige and earnings. 
 

Some things I like about working though: time structuring, mental stimulation, the opportunity to interact with new/different people daily, being somewhat forced out of my comfort zone often and feeling like my life is my own. I did not know I was missing those things until I had them. 
 

If you can do it though, it’s a valid choice. Just be sure to think through several worst case scenarios and have an answer for how you would manage them. 

[Night Elf]

FWIW, I write 'homemaker' for occupation. I am not a SAHM and neither am I retired. Some people don't want to be referred to in such a limited way. I embrace it. It's exactly what I want to be. I just wish I was better at it!

[Ann.without.an.e]

I love reading all of your thoughts and experiences. I always assumed (when the kids were younger) that I’d go back to school or go for a career after the kids were out of the house so it’s a fairly recent desire change for me. 
One of my bigger concerns is the age difference and it may force me into the work place eventually. Maybe @Quillcan help me understand it. Does it mean that DH can’t really draw full social security and I can’t be on Medicare until I’m 65? Which means he has to keep working until 73? I just don’t know if that is feasible. He’s such a strong person and he works so hard but I can imagine he will hit his limits well before 73. I’m worried about the gap that falls between him being 65 and me being 65, if that makes sense? 

[AnniePoo]

OP on the other thread here. I think what you’re proposing sounds fantastic, and that is what I had planned to do with my life too. I love the idea of more people having enough margin in their lives to serve those around them and keep stress levels down.

Once my kids were all in school, I found myself getting bored and depressed. I tried volunteering at various institutions but the positions I found most meaningful required skills I didn’t have. My personality and gifts are such that I like working behind the scenes solving problems.

For me, grad school was actually plan B after finding that I need more structure and mental challenge than I was getting staying at home and volunteering. I will absolutely grieve a loss of freedom when it comes time to work full time, but after weighing it against how aimless I felt before I started school, I do believe it will be the better option.

I honestly see no cons to what you are proposing.

[Ann.without.an.e]

12 minutes ago, AnniePoo said:

OP on the other thread here. I think what you’re proposing sounds fantastic, and that is what I had planned to do with my life too. I love the idea of more people having enough margin in their lives to serve those around them and keep stress levels down.

Once my kids were all in school, I found myself getting bored and depressed. I tried volunteering at various institutions but the positions I found most meaningful required skills I didn’t have. My personality and gifts are such that I like working behind the scenes solving problems.

For me, grad school was actually plan B after finding that I need more structure and mental challenge than I was getting staying at home and volunteering. I will absolutely grieve a loss of freedom when it comes time to work full time, but after weighing it against how aimless I felt before I started school, I do believe it will be the better option.

I honestly see no cons to what you are proposing.

Thar’s fair and I really think there are so many pros and cons to entering the workplace vs not and that’s why I’ve been rolling it around in my head a lot. I might feel the same way as you in a few years. I may enjoy the first year and then be totally bored lol. We’ll see, I guess.

I think I also may be more apt to jump into the workplace if I had at least a bachelors. Tbh I think I would love to be a therapist and if I had a bachelors to build on, I could see jumping into higher education to become one. But it’s daunting to think of starting the undergrad path at almost 50 and best case scenario I’d start a career at close to 60? It doesn’t feel worth it at that point I guess. 

 

[Laura Corin]

31 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I love reading all of your thoughts and experiences. I always assumed (when the kids were younger) that I’d go back to school or go for a career after the kids were out of the house so it’s a fairly recent desire change for me. 
One of my bigger concerns is the age difference and it may force me into the work place eventually. Maybe @Quillcan help me understand it. Does it mean that DH can’t really draw full social security and I can’t be on Medicare until I’m 65? Which means he has to keep working until 73? I just don’t know if that is feasible. He’s such a strong person and he works so hard but I can imagine he will hit his limits well before 73. I’m worried about the gap that falls between him being 65 and me being 65, if that makes sense? 

I don't know about Medicare (not US resident) but my understanding is that my husband will receive US SS when he reaches the retirement age, but I will not receive my SS based on his record until I also reach retirement age.  Is that correct, anyone?

Edited April 1, 2022 by Laura Corin

[Guest]

Re: Age difference and Social Security:No, it doesn’t mean quite that, or at least, that isn’t the part that I feel insecure about. PLEASE NOBODY QUOTE THIS PART.
<Deleted

PLEASE NOBODY QUOTE!!!!

Edited April 1, 2022 by Quill

[Ann.without.an.e]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

Re: Age difference and Social Security:

No, it doesn’t mean quite that, or at least, that isn’t the part that I feel insecure about.

I’m sorry. That has to be really difficult to watch. My DH is 52 so I can’t imagine it either. He’s very strong still and outworks most men half his age. But I know that day is coming and I’m also afraid it will be well before he’s 67. 

[Soror]

I'm contemplating what I'll do now. I thought I'd just stay at home. I don't know that will be good for me to have that much unstructured time. And more money would be nice-- Yet, the thought of a FT regular job feels suffocating (I know it is a privilege to think that). I've thought on different paths. I could find a job to work for the school-- then I am off a lot and get plenty of time with the kids--- but pay is crappy and I don't even know what I'd want to do with that. Not a lot of jobs offer flexible schedules. I've thought about going and doing an OTA program-- good pay--- not sure on flexibility. I've toyed with going back for my Master's in SW and doing counseling on my own. The ability to make more- but there is the building a business, paperwork, yada yada. And the time and money going back to school for anything would be a no-go until dh finishes his college-- minimum of 2 yrs. Partly it depends on how long we end up hs'ing-- we're at least doing 1 more year. Too many variables after that-- hs'ing hs is not easy here with such a small community and lack of options.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I know my thoughts on all of this are so skewed because my mom is a workaholic. It also spills over into her personal life and she talks about work nonstop. She’s always been work focused. She never really took an interest in grandkids or spent much time with them because she’s always been too busy. 
I’m afraid of that. You only have so much bandwidth, right? I can’t help my kids with their kids during the day and work full time? And also take care of aging parents?  

But I’m also afraid of the age gap and would much rather jump in and do like @Quilland get a certificate or something and start a career I feel more in control of at 50 rather than be forced to work wherever I can find something at 60. It’s just such a hard decision.

[Pawz4me]

31 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I love reading all of your thoughts and experiences. I always assumed (when the kids were younger) that I’d go back to school or go for a career after the kids were out of the house so it’s a fairly recent desire change for me. 
One of my bigger concerns is the age difference and it may force me into the work place eventually. Maybe @Quillcan help me understand it. Does it mean that DH can’t really draw full social security and I can’t be on Medicare until I’m 65? Which means he has to keep working until 73? I just don’t know if that is feasible. He’s such a strong person and he works so hard but I can imagine he will hit his limits well before 73. I’m worried about the gap that falls between him being 65 and me being 65, if that makes sense? 

Your DH is eligible to receive SS beginning at age 62, although depending on his DOB his full retirement age (the age at which he would receive his full SS benefit) will be 65 or older. Your DH will be entitled to receive Medicare when he's 65 regardless of whether he continues to work past that age or not. Nobody is eligible for Medicare prior to age 65 unless they qualify as disabled by the SSA. You will qualify for Medicare at age 65 based on your DH's work history. When you reach 62 you will be eligible to draw SS based on his earnings. Retirees are entitled to either their own SS amount or half of their spouse's amount.

[Hilltopmom]

My mom stayed home until my brother and I were grown then she worked in state group homes for disabled adults for a few years while my dad was retiring from the military.

We moved back home to be close to them and she has babysat the grandkids for a year here or there while my sil and I were both young teachers before I quit to homeschool. She homeschooled my younger kids last year for me due to covid since I had returned to teaching. Now that all the grandkids are in school, they bought a camp (house, really) in the nearby mountains and spend about half their time up there hiking and kayaking. She also has been part of an active quilt/ craft group for years.

So, she got to have the time with the grandkids (that she wanted- I wouldn’t have asked her to do daycare otherwise) and now they get lots of nature time to themselves.

Its a legit choice!

They are “lucky” in that they have my dad’s military retirement plus what he has from his second career retirement plan plus they were always very frugal and saved a lot for retirement (something I did not understand or appreciate as a kid). And are both still healthy in their 70s although my dad is slowing down.

 

[JustEm]

My youngest is only 2 so I have many more years of being a homeschooling mom. But I already know I don't ever want to work for someone else and I've let dh know that. I do still imagine I'll bring in some form of income, like I do now with pet sitting and selling things on eBay. But that is mainly because those are things I really enjoy doing. The income is just a major bonus.

I may decide to go back to work at some point strictly to work somewhere that will give my at least some of my kids free college tuition, if those options are available in a few years.

The only reasons I'd see not working being a problem is if it were an issue for one's spouse or wasn't financially possible.

[maize]

I personally love the idea of being an involved grandmother. Dh and I have never lived near our parents, so our kids barely know them. It is so hard to raise a family without any extended family support; given the option I would like to be that support for my kids.

Whether that will happen I have no idea. Dh has long-term health issues that are likely to leave him disabled before ordinary retirement age, and we would not be able to get by on disability retirement income alone--so I figure I'm going to need to earn money. How much we will need I don't know. I've started working extremely part time (aiming for one day a week during the school year) as a substitute teacher. Full-time substituting wouldn't pay well but it is extremely flexible--you can choose any given day to work or not. I remember that is what Creekland did for years, and she seemed to prefer it to accepting a regular teaching job because of the flexibility. Maybe that would be enough. So far I've found that I really enjoy working in special education classrooms, and there are lots of substitute positions open for those in my district.

[Carrie12345]

4 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

But I already know I don't ever want to work for someone else and I've let dh know that

Dh likes to play this for me. 

 

[Beth S]

BTDT.  I'm 58yo, (dh is 61yo) w/Empty Nest for 18 months.  I too had absolutely planned to return to work after the kids moved out.
I could step back into accounting (bookkeeping, initially).
But I found that I didn't have enough mental/physical/time/whatever margin.

Instead, I spent a lot of time learning about Social Security, Medicare, IRA withdrawal rules, ACA subsidies, updated our wills, consulted with a CPA.

I highly recommend all of this.  I was able to realize that we had enough to retire on (if we continued on our current budget).
The CPA warned that we couldn't buy a fancy car, and we couldn't treat our kids to a big family vacation (or really "bail them out").
I thought his warnings were good.

It's possible that you can make some low-key money at home, by selling household items you no longer need, or babysitting for a friend's elderly parent or baby.

It's possible that you can spend your time decluttering & researching downsizing your home (& other expenses).  Reducing your expenses can be a big gain . . . as much as earning money.  There are lots of Youtubers to help with this.

But this thread is very helpful, & I just encourage that learning process in the months ahead!
 

ETA:  Both sets of parents and our 5 kids, and 3 grandkids do benefit from me being available to help (even across the miles).

Edited April 1, 2022 by Beth S

[wintermom]

How does your dh feel about this? I think as long as you are married, this discussion should include him. 

My dh was very supportive of me staying at home with the dc, and still supportive for the 16 years I homeschooled our dc. The full financial burden of our family has taken its toll on him, though. I've felt guilty about not contributing to the finacial side, but when the dc were young it was a benefit to the whole family for me to be at home.

Now that the dc are older, in college (or nearly), dh and I both are really happy that I'm working. The finacial stress we both faced is gone, which is wonderful. I have a potential to build up a nice nest egg for our retirement, allow us some extra money to travel and take a couple vacations (which we never could while the dc were young). 

The other benefit of building up some employment capacity is that it will keep your mind engaged, your self confidence will grow, and you'll know that you can handle things better if something were to happen to your dh.

You are still young. Be willing to invest in yourself, because you are worth it! Education is readily available on-line in a million ways. Opportunities are out there, but you have to start looking around and find them. 

[teachermom2834]

I have made peace with it. My dh makes enough money that we are in a high enough tax bracket and his social security will be high enough than whatever I make will be so low after taxes to not feel worth it and it will not be as much as the half I will draw of his. Of course, if that law changes I would be out of luck but I’m just not going to have enough earning potential to have much of a draw myself regardless. 

I will continue to add value to my family by being available and making everyone else’s lives easier and cheaper by providing services that don’t need to be hired out (future emergency childcare for grandkids, transportation help at times, cooking vs. eating out, house and yard work). If someone is having surgery I will be there for whatever is needed. If someone is moving I will be there. Need help painting? I’m there. 
 

I worked extremely hard and intensely during the child rearing and homeschooling years. I’m just retiring early.

[Eos]

I had been thinking I needed to figure out my empty nest plan because of the panic it was inducing but I think I've found peace with it this winter. I guess for me it has been less about the money, since Dh and I have run our family business together all of our adult lives and will continue.  (We can probably realistically run it through our 70s but will either sell or convert to apartment rentals if we can't run it anymore and if none of our children want it by then.) So it's been more about intellectual stimulation and community involvement, both of which I can create without getting an outside job.  I've planned to take care of my mother when she needs it, and also help my terminally-diagnosed sister when she's ready.  I asked my mom to wait until youngest was done homeschooling and so far, at 93, she has obliged.  Sister may not be able to wait.

 

[Ali in OR]

I am one who felt down and a bit lost as my kids were finishing up high school and moving on to college (out of the house). For me, returning to work has been very fulfilling, and I still feel lucky for being able to do that because I thought I had no choice but to care for my disabled adult daughter forever (turns out there are a lot more options once the disabled person turns 18). You do have excellent experience as a homeschooler even if you have no degree. If it ever interests you enough, consider work as an educational assistant (I was able to return to teaching this year but spent the 3 previous years as an EA). In our district, those who work with the life skills kids like my daughter get the highest pay (higher than my EA pay helping with math) and no fancy degree required. I complained about the hourly wage (I went from $14/hr to start to $19 at the end), but the retirement and benefits come with the job. We're under my dh's medical plan, but I can get extra vision and dental for free and this has paid for significant dental work for one kid.

My dh is very good at saving for the long term. I like having my money for short term goals. I am able to help my kids in that way--I'm saving half my salary this year to help them get their first cars when they leave college. When dd's bike got stolen at college, I had money available to help her get a new one (she paid half). Just keep in mind that that is another way you can help your family.

[lmrich]

I think just stay open to possibilities. The possible part-time job might pop up for you or maybe not. Just follow your instincts and everything will be fine. 

[Faith-manor]

If you don't have much set aside for retirement, I would advise you to work, not to increase social security benefit because SS is in real trouble financially, but in order to increase personal savings. You might be able to get a receptionist job, para-pro at a school and work one on one with a student, so!drying that isn't retail or food service and still get $15-17 an hour. If you do that for a few years, if really does add up if you can save most of it. I think it is a blessing to our kids to be as financially sound as possible going into retirement.

I can never earn enough with the time left, to increase my SS benefit beyond the spouse benefit. But, my earnings go into a Roth IRAx and we have that money to count on in the future. It also has helped with college bills for our kids, and fives me something to contribute to keep our emergency fund going. I would rather be volunteering. However, that isn't the best plan for us. My fine after job is gone, so now I am tutoring and doing some performing and then paying taxes quarterly. It is no fun doing the accounting, but this year I needed the flexibility due to my mother in law's health so I haven't pursued another 9-5 style job.

[Laura Corin]

38 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

I have made peace with it. My dh makes enough money that we are in a high enough tax bracket and his social security will be high enough than whatever I make will be so low after taxes to not feel worth it and it will not be as much as the half I will draw of his. 

This is an interesting difference in the UK. Here, for most people, tax allowances are individual.  Even if my husband were earning millions, the first 12,500 pounds I earned would be income-tax free. 

[Matryoshka]

8 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

This is an interesting difference in the UK. Here, for most people, tax allowances are individual.  Even if my husband were earning millions, the first 12,500 pounds I earned would be income-tax free. 

That's not quite what she means.  SS is based on some formula of how many years you worked, lifetime income, and what you were earning for the years leading up to taking SS... OR half of your spouse's amount. I've also already figured out, that no matter how much I try to put into my own SS pot, half of his will be more, so adding to my own is moot.

For income taxes, as a married couple there is the option to file either jointly or individually. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Matryoshka

[Laura Corin]

2 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

That's not quite what she means.  SS is based on some formula of how many years you worked, lifetime income, and what you were earning for the years leading up to taking SS... OR half of your spouse's amount. I've also already figured out, that no matter how much I try to put into my own SS pot, half of his will be more, so adding to my own is moot.

I thought she meant both: that she wouldn't earn enough for her SS to be worthwhile, but also that it wouldn't mean much in cash terms.  But maybe I got that wrong.

[Faith-manor]

3 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

That's not quite what she means.  SS is based on some formula of how many years you worked, lifetime income, and what you were earning for the years leading up to taking SS... OR half of your spouse's amount. I've also already figured out, that no matter how much I try to put into my own SS pot, half of his will be more, so adding to my own is moot.

For income taxes, as a married couple there is the option to file either jointly or individually. 

Right. But given that SS is in jeopardy, and though it needed to be fixed thirty years ago, it wasn't and now we face 2030 when there will only be two workers paying into the system for every retiree drawing out, don't you think it is wiser to earn money and save it regardless of the outcome on social security benefit? I am in that same boat. However, my earnings are still in the bank drawing interest for us to use when we aren't working anymore. There is value in that, and if SS benefits are cut - a likely scenario unless someone miraculously decides to do something smart and manages to get all the other talking bobbleheads to go along - that money will really come in handy.

[mommyoffive]

I am in this boat.  Right now I feel like I am not happy I took this route.  But then I have no experience taking the other route while being a mom.  Would I have been happy that way?  We probably couldn't have had as many kids just based on my pgs and how sick I was every time.  Growing up and going to college. I never thought I would be a SAHM.  Never once thought it.  It was assumed in my family I would go to college and be a working mom.  The only sahm in my family was my grandma.  And I of course never ever ever thought when I had kids I would homeschool them.  I didn't even know that was a thing until my first kid was about 4.   All my family were public school teachers, that was just what was normal and expected.  I think now if I had known I was going to do this I would have done things differently.  Not gone to college and saved the $ instead.  Worked my butt off and saved all the money before having kids.  Have dh go into a different career?    I also really wish I would have done something part time while having kids.  Even just working one a week would have been great.  Spending so many years at home, I feel like I don't have my own identity or even thought of what I want to do. Being a SAHM is a hard job and I know that I worked my butt off especially in those younger years.  I hope to be an involved grandma if my kids have kids.  We haven't had any help ever.  I want to start working at little PT just to have something besides doing the home and childcare as my identity.

We did do something on the right path by saving a lot, but of course we could have done so much better with that by starting earlier.  I started in my teens, dh didn't. 

[Carrie12345]

4 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Right. But given that SS is in jeopardy, and though it needed to be fixed thirty years ago, it wasn't and now we face 2030 when there will only be two workers paying into the system for every retiree drawing out, don't you think it is wiser to earn money and save it regardless of the outcome on social security benefit? I am in that same boat. However, my earnings are still in the bank drawing interest for us to use when we aren't working anymore. There is value in that, and if SS benefits are cut - a likely scenario unless someone miraculously decides to do something smart and manages to get all the other talking bobbleheads to go along - that money will really come in handy.

Well, more is always more than… less. But some more is less than other more.
As an example, 22-24% is a big tax chunk, especially with fewer or no child tax credits. More cash at $40/hr than at $15, of course.  Plus transportation costs. Potentially wardrobe.  Better health care benefits could be a big cash boost, which is why my mom is still working, so good on her! But that’s not always offered.  The limit for retirement savings programs doesn’t change for a couple whether there’s one or two jobs, so cash savings or investing over the limits don’t come with the same tax advantages.  Employer matches might make a big difference, or might not be available at all.

More is going to look really good for some.  For others, it could look like working 10+ years for very little and potentially even losing some of that to inflation rates or investment losses.
(Yeah, I have major trust issues right now, lol.)

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Well, more is always more than… less. But some more is less than other more.
As an example, 22-24% is a big tax chunk, especially with fewer or no child tax credits. More cash at $40/hr than at $15, of course.  Plus transportation costs. Potentially wardrobe.  Better health care benefits could be a big cash boost, which is why my mom is still working, so good on her! But that’s not always offered.  The limit for retirement savings programs doesn’t change for a couple whether there’s one or two jobs, so cash savings or investing over the limits don’t come with the same tax advantages.  Employer matches might make a big difference, or might not be available at all.

More is going to look really good for some.  For others, it could look like working 10+ years for very little and potentially even losing some of that to inflation rates or investment losses.
(Yeah, I have major trust issues right now, lol.)

I get it. One does have to run the numbers. I just think people need to be realistic and not assume that the SS numbers they see now on the statement are the numbers they will actually get. As you say, major trust issues. So the default many women have of "well, I can just draw half of Dh's benefit and it will be X amount so we will have Y monthly income" is not a sure thing. I also like to hedge my bets because there is no guarantee that dh can work to retirement age. He seems to be in great health, but who knows. Having a foot in the door of employment feels better to me than just hoping everything goes according to plan. But I get it, working for not much sucks!

[GoVanGogh]

Loved the clip above re: kickboxing. That is me, except yoga. 
 

I had always envisioned going back to work, at least part time. I started a (very) small business almost five years ago, in part as job training and to update my business skills. I thought it would be a stepping stone to something more once I was finished homeschooling. My DS graduated in 2020, shortly after I was diagnosed with young onset Parkinson’s. I feel like I am in an odd place in life now. I feel like I have something “more” inside of me yet, something unfulfilled. Yet at the same time, my health limits what I can do. I can’t simply get a job for the sake of having a job. My balance and ability to stand or lift are limited, my memory is terrible, I can’t drive more than a few miles. So I putter in my garden and go to yoga and run my small business. I am trying to embrace being mostly “retired,” but I feel guilty at times. That said… 
 

On the larger issue, I feel this is an interesting (and odd) time for society. We live in a capitalist society, being told constantly that we have to buy more and own more. But what if we don’t? I have, in the past year, met some great new friends who have yet to see my house or where I live. One of them recently asked if we were going to downsize now that we are empty nesters. (She is also a new empty nester.) I told her we never upsized, so had nothing to downsize to. She was floored. We were then comparing house sizes and her home is 6x as large as ours. She said they needed the larger house because they had a live in nanny when the kids were younger. She has always worked corporate and is burnt out and stressed out and talks constantly about needing to escape. But what about living a life we don’t need to escape from? We bought the smallest, though nicest, home we could easily afford on one salary nearly 30 years ago. And we stayed put and paid off our house years ago. Yes, it was cramped at times, esp when homeschooling. But we made the conscious decision to stay in this house and not feel society’s pressure to constantly move up, buy more. Yes, sometimes I wished we had a bigger or nicer home. But I am content where we are and it has been so amazing to have our home paid off for almost ten years now, to have that financial freedom of not needing to work just to pay for the bigger home or the live in nanny. I think it is okay to step back from what society tells us - especially tells women - we should want or should be doing. We had a new housing development go in directly behind us about ten years ago. The house are massive, many with 5-6 bathrooms. The house directly behind ours has three people living in it, a couple with one young teenage child. I don’t think it is healthy for society or for the planet to have that level of consumption. Sorry, a soapbox issue of mine. But I think it is relevant to how women see themselves and see their role in the family and in the world. 

[Selkie]

You should talk to a financial planner who can take your financial information and living expenses (current and projected) and tell you how much money you will need going forward. They can also run through what you will need for different scenarios, like if one spouse dies or one or both of you need expensive medical or nursing home care.

[Ann.without.an.e]

4 minutes ago, GoVanGogh said:

On the larger issue, I feel this is an interesting (and odd) time for society. We live in a capitalist society, being told constantly that we have to buy more and own more. But what if we don’t? I have, in the past year, met some great new friends who have yet to see my house or where I live. One of them recently asked if we were going to downsize now that we are empty nesters. (She is also a new empty nester.) I told her we never upsized, so had nothing to downsize to. She was floored. We were then comparing house sizes and her home is 6x as large as ours. She said they needed the larger house because they had a live in nanny when the kids were younger. She has always worked corporate and is burnt out and stressed out and talks constantly about needing to escape. But what about living a life we don’t need to escape from? We bought the smallest, though nicest, home we could easily afford on one salary nearly 30 years ago. And we stayed put and paid off our house years ago. Yes, it was cramped at times, esp when homeschooling. But we made the conscious decision to stay in this house and not feel society’s pressure to constantly move up, buy more. Yes, sometimes I wished we had a bigger or nicer home. But I am content where we are and it has been so amazing to have our home paid off for almost ten years now, to have that financial freedom of not needing to work just to pay for the bigger home or the live in nanny. I think it is okay to step back from what society tells us - especially tells women - we should want or should be doing. We had a new housing development go in directly behind us about ten years ago. The house are massive, many with 5-6 bathrooms. The house directly behind ours has three people living in it, a couple with one young teenage child. I don’t think it is healthy for society or for the planet to have that level of consumption. Sorry, a soapbox issue of mine. But I think it is relevant to how women see themselves and see their role in the family and in the world. 

I feel very much the same way. We don’t need much, we live pretty simple really. We renovated an old farm house that’s a littler larger than we actually wanted at 2200 square feet but we settled because we wanted the land. We’ve made it our own and our kids were raised there, we paid very little for it and it isn’t in the city so the taxes are pretty cheap. I don’t think we’ll downsize unless it’s to build something smaller on our property and let one of our kids take it over. Youngest Dd runs the farm on our land so I could see us doing that one day and letting her take the larger home when she has kids. It just makes sense. 
When we bought the farm we intended to have a more homestead lifestyle but dh moved up and his job requires a lot of him. I could see me growing almost all of our food and semi-homesteading and just living really cheap. 

[JustEm]

3 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I feel very much the same way. We don’t need much, we live pretty simple really. We renovated an old farm house that’s a littler larger than we actually wanted at 2200 square feet but we settled because we wanted the land. We’ve made it our own and our kids were raised there, we paid very little for it and it isn’t in the city so the taxes are pretty cheap. I don’t think we’ll downsize unless it’s to build something smaller on our property and let one of our kids take it over. Youngest Dd runs the farm on our land so I could see us doing that one day and letting her take the larger home when she has kids. It just makes sense. 
When we bought the farm we intended to have a more homestead lifestyle but dh moved up and his job requires a lot of him. I could see me growing almost all of our food and semi-homesteading and just living really cheap. 

I would love to get to the point where we were growing a large percentage of our food. This summer I'm aiming for 50% of our produce coming from our garden. we'll see.

[wintermom]

16 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I feel very much the same way. We don’t need much, we live pretty simple really. We renovated an old farm house that’s a littler larger than we actually wanted at 2200 square feet but we settled because we wanted the land. We’ve made it our own and our kids were raised there, we paid very little for it and it isn’t in the city so the taxes are pretty cheap. I don’t think we’ll downsize unless it’s to build something smaller on our property and let one of our kids take it over. Youngest Dd runs the farm on our land so I could see us doing that one day and letting her take the larger home when she has kids. It just makes sense. 
When we bought the farm we intended to have a more homestead lifestyle but dh moved up and his job requires a lot of him. I could see me growing almost all of our food and semi-homesteading and just living really cheap. 

I guess the thing is what happens when you and/or your dh get too old to live on your own in the house? Do you have money to pay for a place in town in a retirement centre? If you are in the retirement mode of long-term thinking, you have to think about life right up to death. I've seen people in their 70s and 80s really stressed because they haven't planned for the expenses they'll face then. Some people live to their 90s and up to 100. Financially planning for that is really, really tricky. 

[Harriet Vane]

7 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I guess the thing is what happens when you and/or your dh get too old to live on your own in the house? Do you have money to pay for a place in town in a retirement centre? If you are in the retirement mode of long-term thinking, you have to think about life right up to death. I've seen people in their 70s and 80s really stressed because they haven't planned for the expenses they'll face then. Some people live to their 90s and up to 100. Financially planning for that is really, really tricky. 

This is so true. So many people make their choices about retirement assuming they will be mobile, strong, and mentally competent. AND that inflation won't suck the air out of our retirement budgets. The reality is that our bodies and abilities will dwindle. It's just a question of what form the decline will take. What seems like a "simple life" to a 50 or 60 year old is different than "simple" for a 75 year old and different than simple for a 90 year old. Most people--I really do mean MOST--hold tight to the awesome life and stuff that worked well at 60 loooooong past when it's simple or feasible, resulting in painful situations. It's best to account for the whole spectrum in your planning.

[Faith-manor]

9 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I guess the thing is what happens when you and/or your dh get too old to live on your own in the house? Do you have money to pay for a place in town in a retirement centre? If you are in the retirement mode of long-term thinking, you have to think about life right up to death. I've seen people in their 70s and 80s really stressed because they haven't planned for the expenses they'll face then. Some people live to their 90s and up to 100. Financially planning for that is really, really tricky. 

Yes it is, and as a person drowning between to elderly mothers who didn't plan well one of whom was literally shockingly irresponsible though that lies a good deal on her  dead husband, I can say there are three options. A. The burden falls on the offspring who are left utterly steam rolled by paying expenses for elders and shouldering the physical care because there isn't any money to pay for caregivers while also still raising and launching their own kids. B. The family home is sold, the money is used to finance assisted living, and when that runs out, medicaid and whatever awful nursing home takes medicaid folks because the good ones that really take care of geriatric patients don't. By the way the waiting list is bizarrely long for nursing homes taking medicaid. C. Elder dies in tragic and very not easy passing ways in the home, neglected because they didn't leave the family home, didn't move near family, or family had to work, raise kids, deal with other sick family members, and elder had no one to care for them, see also "Faith's neighbor Millie". It seems impossible to plan for, but with folks living so much longer while also sicker than previous generations, we have to try to do what we can to help our kids' out.

The whole thing stinks that is for sure!

[Ann.without.an.e]

30 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I guess the thing is what happens when you and/or your dh get too old to live on your own in the house? 

 

13 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

…

 

18 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

This is so true. So many people make their choices about retirement assuming they will be mobile, strong, and mentally competent. AND that inflation won't suck the air out of our retirement budgets. The reality is that our bodies and abilities will dwindle. It's just a question of what form the decline will take. What seems like a "simple life" to a 50 or 60 year old is different than "simple" for a 75 year old and different than simple for a 90 year old. Most people--I really do mean MOST--hold tight to the awesome life and stuff that worked well at 60 loooooong past when it's simple or feasible, resulting in painful situations. It's best to account for the whole spectrum in your planning.

Dd really wants our house and again, she runs her business from the property. We will evaluate all of this more when DH is 60. If dd hasn’t already built on our land or bought our neighbor’s vacant lot to build on, and has no interest anymore of living on our land, we will make whatever decisions we need to then. There’s no way we’re selling our family land that our kids want at only 44 and 52 because of fear of the future. We’ve talked about this with dd. Dd will likely build a smaller one level home that meets our needs more and then we’ll work out some sort of switch as her family grows and needs more space. Her fiancé is ok with this idea at this point too. Also my oldest owns a home 10 minutes from here. My oldest son also wants to settle fairly close. It isn’t like we’re clinging to something in the middle of nowhere a bazillion miles away from our kids. We will make whatever decisions we need as we need to make them. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Carrie12345]

14 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

This is so true. So many people make their choices about retirement assuming they will be mobile, strong, and mentally competent. AND that inflation won't suck the air out of our retirement budgets. The reality is that our bodies and abilities will dwindle. It's just a question of what form the decline will take. What seems like a "simple life" to a 50 or 60 year old is different than "simple" for a 75 year old and different than simple for a 90 year old. Most people--I really do mean MOST--hold tight to the awesome life and stuff that worked well at 60 loooooong past when it's simple or feasible, resulting in painful situations. It's best to account for the whole spectrum in your planning.

I can’t seem to get certain thoughts out of my head while walking the dog, doing my laundry, and nagging my kids, lol.

The degree of effect that any one of thousands of choices we make can have on our lives is terrifying. And I happen to be a person who tries to prepare for everything. Just look back at any food storage thread, lol.
I think it’s irresponsible to make *no* plan for elderly issues. But I also think it’s horrible to sacrifice decades of one’s life for the possibility that we might make it to 95 and be very medically dependent for 15 of those years.
Again, I’m not saying we shouldn’t sacrifice at all.  But it would break my heart to sacrifice a whole lot and then die in a car wreck at 51. 
Women who make it to 65 have a less than 50% chance of hitting their 90s.  I’m not a big gambler outside of the occasional Powerball or charity 50/50, so I don’t really know what bets are good here. I’m certainly not going to aim to blow it all quickly, but I’m also not going to live the rest of my life sacrificing just for that coin toss!

[Harriet Vane]

2 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

 

Dd really wants our house and again, she runs her business from the property. We will evaluate all of this more when DH is 60. If dd hasn’t already built on our land or bought our neighbor’s vacant lot to build on, and has no interest anymore of living on our land, we will make whatever decisions we need to then. There’s no way we’re selling our family land that our kids want at only 44 and 52 because of fear of the future. We’ve talked about this with dd. Dd will likely build a smaller one level home that meets our needs more and then we’ll work out some sort of switch as her family grows and needs more space. Also my oldest owns a home 10 minutes from here. My oldest son also wants to settle fairly close. It isn’t like we’re clinging to something in the middle of nowhere a bazillion miles away from our kids. We will make whatever decisions we need as we need to make them. 

To clarify--I wasn't applying a judgment to your specific situation. Just speaking generally to the need to think through all the stages. That will certainly look different for different families and situations, and of course it makes sense to not burn it all down at 44 and 52 based on what might happen at 70.

[wintermom]

17 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

Dd really wants our house and again, she runs her business from the property. We will evaluate all of this more when DH is 60. If dd hasn’t already built on our land or bought our neighbor’s vacant lot to build on, and has no interest anymore of living on our land, we will make whatever decisions we need to then. There’s no way we’re selling our family land that our kids want at only 44 and 52 because of fear of the future. We’ve talked about this with dd. Dd will likely build a smaller one level home that meets our needs more and then we’ll work out some sort of switch as her family grows and needs more space. Her fiancé is ok with this idea at this point too. Also my oldest owns a home 10 minutes from here. My oldest son also wants to settle fairly close. It isn’t like we’re clinging to something in the middle of nowhere a bazillion miles away from our kids. We will make whatever decisions we need as we need to make them. 

I have no idea about the US, but the longer you pay into the national pension program in Canada, the more money you'll have at the allotted retirement age. Same goes for special retirement savings accounts.

If you've never worked and never contributed to a pension, you'll be relying on a spousal pension or your own savings (sale of property). It's worth thinking about, because your standard of living in your 60s to 90s can really be affected. 

Take some time to go through a scenario of what kind of money you'll have to live on if your dh died suddenly tomorrow versus 20 years from now. A pension is a wonderful thing, because you don't just plow through savings.

I'd strongly urge you to talk to a financial advisor when making a decision to "retire" when you are as young as you are. 

[Ellie]

I've been an unemployed empty nester for over 20 years and I'm glad I've continued to be unemployed. I did work for about three years when older dd got engaged and married, but working for someone else after being self-employed is always a challenge. 🙂 I do get SS benefits, based on my own limited employment and Mr. Elllie's. I would get a job if I needed it, but it would be retail or some such thing. Maybe DoorDash (.Mr. Ellie might do that, too, because what will he do when he retires? He doesn't garden or have any other hobbies that will keep him busy, and because of c@vid, we've both .experienced his sitting around the house all day. And we aren't financially able to travel the world, or even America, so there's that.).

[Ann.without.an.e]

32 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I can’t seem to get certain thoughts out of my head while walking the dog, doing my laundry, and nagging my kids, lol.

The degree of effect that any one of thousands of choices we make can have on our lives is terrifying. And I happen to be a person who tries to prepare for everything. Just look back at any food storage thread, lol.
I think it’s irresponsible to make *no* plan for elderly issues. But I also think it’s horrible to sacrifice decades of one’s life for the possibility that we might make it to 95 and be very medically dependent for 15 of those years.
Again, I’m not saying we shouldn’t sacrifice at all.  But it would break my heart to sacrifice a whole lot and then die in a car wreck at 51. 
Women who make it to 65 have a less than 50% chance of hitting their 90s.  I’m not a big gambler outside of the occasional Powerball or charity 50/50, so I don’t really know what bets are good here. I’m certainly not going to aim to blow it all quickly, but I’m also not going to live the rest of my life sacrificing just for that coin toss!

Exactly 

 

to be honest it’s all a gamble to an extent. My DH could die tomorrow and that would require a huge change of plans. We can keep an eye on the future and make plans the best we can without sacrificing everything we want and need in the present just for the uncertainties. I have absolutely no idea what my life will look like in 20 years and I may die tomorrow. It’s definitely a balancing act of living in the present while also keeping one eye on the future.

[Arcadia]

My mom quit working full time as a nurse when my brother was born. Then she went back to working part time when he was in school because she was bored staying home. She caught bronchitis from working at the Urgent Care unit of a large public hospital and that has plague her until now. Her lungs has landed her in hospital a few times. 

So seeing how sickly my mom is, I am going to be very picky when I could return back to the workforce. My mom’s medical expenses far exceeded what she earned. She would likely be better off health wise doing volunteer work instead of working there. Her next workplace in a private hospital’s maternity ward was better but the lung damage was done. 
 

Helping to take care of grandkids is hard work. My mom helped me with my two. In my culture, grandparents would typically help babysit if able to so that parents don’t need to pay for help.