Holidays JAWM

[TexasProud]

Ok, I didn't want to hijack the other thread, so I will just put my musings here. Though, I guess I don't know why I care so much what the Hive thinks...

No one I know is as cautious as I am. No one. I went with hubby to a mission leaders conference. We flew, wore our N95's.  We also wore them at the conference of approximately 50 people. We were the only ones wearing a mask. All of these people are family practice, surgeons, PA's, etc. Every single person was double vaxxed and everyone I talked to had already had their boosters. 

Afterwards, when I went back to mom's I wore a mask 24/7 around her when I stayed with her.

We will be going to my MIL's for Christmas and through New Year's.  The people that I know have boosters: MIL, me, husband, oldest, bil,both sil's. Double vaccinated: our middle one, our daughter, and two nieces.  BIL and two SIL work in the school systems where students do not wear masks. I know one SIL does, but I am not sure about my BIL/SIL.  My daughter's university is still mandatory masks. The choir performed in masks when we watched them. 

No one will be wearing masks for Christmas and I do not want to. My husband will say testing is overkill and to be honest, with that thing in Norway with the party where they were all vaxxed and tested for the event and still over half of them got it...testing seems pretty useless.  I really don't want to wear a mask. I will when I return to my mom again, though I really hate that as well.  

I do not know anyone who is anti-vax. Everyone vaccinates, but then everyone lives their life. I mean they mask if they are required to.  They don't gripe about it at all. They do it. But I know that no one will wear a mask over Christmas.

Is that OK? Are we bad people? I am so tired of wearing N95's everywhere I go. They are not comfortable. I have trouble understanding if everyone wears masks. I am just so tired of this. 

[WildflowerMom]

I just got my booster today.  After this weekend, I'll stop wearing the mask.   I think you're fine without it.   

[Pam in CT]

When you say JAWM, what are you asking for agreement with? 

That you'll wear a mask despite others not doing so; or that under the quite-protected circumstances you won't be?

 

(FWIW I think either way is quite reasonable under the circumstances you describe. I just can't figure from your OP which is it you want to do.)

[catz]

This is a bit confusing because you are both saying JAWM and asking a question?  And kind of slamming the average WTM discussion at the same time.

If you are boostered and comfortable with it, I think choosing not to mask is fine.  We'll see how boosters hold, but for a bit it should be good protection.  Our numbers are awful in the midwest and masking is still pretty common and required in some places so we're still doing it.  I'm too cheap to buy N95's and I suspect we wouldn't get an amazing fit anyway, but I am comfortable with the decent KN95s we have.  I am feeling more confident boostered now.  GEtting my youngest boostered next week now, that will be GREAT she is out doing quite a bit right now.  I am trying to be sensitive to those who would be most vulnerable.  

I do think the situation in Norway is unusual and I can't find straight consistent answers on that situation and how the testing was done.    I think rapid testing can be a powerful tool before events like that but nothing is 100% perfect.  If they did the PCR/72 hours things that can be more prone to error.  Regardless, we are still deep in Delta in the US.  These measures are a swiss cheese approach, none of them are perfect.  Together they are pretty good.  

If you have situations you may want to be masked, maybe get something a bit more comfortable.  Unless you are fit tested, I don't think you're getting a huge advantage wearing an N95 over some more comfortable but still very good options like the KN95's or KF94's.

[TexasProud]

4 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

 

If you have situations you may want to be masked, maybe get something a bit more comfortable.  Unless you are fit tested, I don't think you're getting a huge advantage wearing an N95 over some more comfortable but still very good options like the KN95's or KF94's.

I think they may be KN95's. They are the ones my husband wears when he works in the hospital. They have two straps, which totally destroy my hair. And they hurt my face. 

You can answer the question. I just don't want to be told I or my relatives are stupid or bad people.

[kbutton]

We're not masking for Christmas, but most coming mask routinely (some live where it's still enforced) and are vaccinated (most are boostered). People coming who are waffley on masks post-vaccine are going to mask for 10-12 days before coming and avoid big gatherings. 

I am a little frustrated that some are pushing the timeline, but I am more worried that they'll get something and not be able to come than that they'll infect us. 

 

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

I think they may be KN95's. They are the ones my husband wears when he works in the hospital. They have two straps, which totally destroy my hair. And they hurt my face. 

You can answer the question. I just don't want to be told I or my relatives are stupid or bad people.

There are options that are just earloops but get a good fit (boat style). We wear Bluna Facefit and another one that is commonly sold the same place. 

I don't think it's bad or stupid; it's more risk than I would want to take. We aren't all drawing lines in the same place, and I think no masks with others who are vaccinated is a reasonable place. 

[ScoutTN]

I think it’s fine to be unmasked in a family circle where people are vaxed. We will be doing that. We have lots of docs, college and high school students, and people over age 50 at our celebration. All vaxed, some boostered. 

We cannot control everything. We have to live.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by ScoutTN

[freesia]

We are in the same situation. We are gathering as an extended family this Christmas.  All are vaccinated. The high risk ones are boostered as are some of the over 50s (maybe all--but I won't be a whole week past mine.)  We are not masking.  We will do some things outside, but are eating inside.

One thing we are doing, though, is being extra careful the week to 10 days before.  For instance, I don't have my kids mask indoors with our friends who are some vaxxed/ some had covid a couple of months ago.  They will for 10 days before we go. They will wear Kn95s at Church and youth group instead of cloth mask. 

So, I think your plan is fine.  Enjoy your Christmas.

[scbusf]

My immediate family is all vaccinated. We wear masks when required (doctor's offices, mostly). Otherwise, we don't typically mask. You aren't terrible people. 

[Miss Tick]

I feel better unmasking in small groups where I'm more likely to be informed if somebody later finds out they have COVID. 

[TexasProud]

Whoo, nice to hear some other perspectives because on the other thread they are so mad the people won't test before they go. I just cannot imagine telling my sweet MIL she must test before I see her.  And just saw an instagram post from my niece. She is wearing a mask, though her classmates are not, so maybe they are more cautious than I thought. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I think everyone has their own risk benefit analysis.  I stopped masking after my second vaccination, except when in the healthcare setting.  Surgical masks are required in the hospitals but in one I’ve noticed most staff take them off or below their nose when they’re in the nursing station. They are all vaccinated as it’s a requirement of employment(and to be fair, most of them gather socially in each other’s home frequently where they aren’t masking, so it’s not really more exposure than daily life).  Another hospital everyone double masks and some people wear full respirators.  It’s a personal risk benefit assessment.

the honest truth is that Covid is here to stay.  It’s highly contagious and so far all immunity seems to fade, which is not surprising since that’s typical with coronaviruses.   It’s completely fine to mask for the rest of your life.  It’s also fine to determine that at some point, you’ve done all you can do. You will most likely catch Covid, probably more than once over a lifetime. I honestly expect it will evolve and mutate into a highly contagious but less deadly virus, and we’ll all catch it like a cold every year.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[ktgrok]

I don't wear a mask around vaccinated family. I think that's pretty common. 

If you were talking unvaccinated teachers, that would be different. 

[ktgrok]

As a boostered person I think you are fine to go to less intense masks at stores, church, etc (some fun cloth ones maybe?) and to not mask at a small gathering of vaccinated family. 

[TexasProud]

10 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

As a boostered person I think you are fine to go to less intense masks at stores, church, etc (some fun cloth ones maybe?) and to not mask at a small gathering of vaccinated family. 

Yeah, I would except my mom is dealing with Stage 4 metastatic cancer and I am there with her nearly every week for several days. So I don't want to catch anything. I am wearing my mask around her when I have been around people in the last week, which lately has been all the time. In January, I should be back to hunkering down, so maybe I won't have to wear them around her, but I will only do that if I wear N95's everywhere else.   My aunt is going to be with her for Christmas so I can go to my MIL. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I do think the situation in Norway is unusual and I can't find straight consistent answers on that situation and how the testing was done.    I think rapid testing can be a powerful tool before events like that but nothing is 100% perfect.  If they did the PCR/72 hours things that can be more prone to error.  Regardless, we are still deep in Delta in the US.  These measures are a swiss cheese approach, none of them are perfect.  Together they are pretty good. 

I can't recall the timing anymore, but it seemed to be the testing was too far ahead in the Norway situation to have been reliable (particularly with omicron spreading so quickly). I think the best combo would be a PCR two days ahead of an event and everybody rapid test right before. I don't expect most people to do that though. A rapid home test right before is certainly very doable though, except where it's a financial hardship, and I hate that we don't have readily available home tests cheap or free like so many European countries.

43 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

 I just cannot imagine telling my sweet MIL she must test before I see her. 

That makes it sounds like testing is really awful. Honestly, it's super quick and easy. With the most prevalent test (Binax), you just swab each nostril (the lower part, not up high) for 15 seconds. That's the extent of it. I've seen a lot of stories who have averted potential outbreaks by catching that they were positive when they did routine testing like this before a gathering, even though they had no symptoms. That said, it doesn't sound like for your crowd it would be something people are interested in. If no one at the gathering is concerned, then I can see it probably doesn't make sense for your particular group.

Edited December 10, 2021 by KSera
typo

[lmrich]

I got my booster and only wear my mask when I am in crowded situations. I was shopping early this morning - right when the stores opened. Often I was the only one in the store. By noon, crowds were appearing, I just left. 

With family, I would not want to wear a mask if everyone is vaccinated (and if someone is not...if they can, then and won't - I can't fix stupid) I would open a window, turn my air purifier to high, wash hand often, and try to be calm. 

I don't want to wear a mask in my home at Christmas. 

[lewelma]

Just one example of one family:

My American family is very very careful, and is gathering for xmas. 1 is flying in from Jordan, 3 are at university, 1 is a school teacher, 1 is a university prof, 1 is a doctor, 1 works completely from home, and my 80+ year old parents.  All are double vaxed and boosted. All will have a covid test the day before they arrive. They will not wear masks in my parents house while they are there for 3 days. 

They will keep the windows closed (it is cold!), but my dad installed a UV light system in his air ducts last year.

Edited December 11, 2021 by lewelma

[J-rap]

I think your plans to gather are fine.  We do the best we can, but still can't control everything.  We got together with dh's family at Thanksgiving.  Everyone was vaccinated (not all boosted yet, due to ineligibility).  We had masks off, and spent a day together.  We've all been quite careful.  Maybe one of two has not been?  We didn't ask for day-to-day routines.  I still mask in grocery stores, our local pharmacy and post office.  I don't go to crowded indoor events with lots of people I don't know.  But I'm comfortable (enough) with family gatherings now.

[2squared]

Everyone in our family is as vaccinated as they are going to be, and we don’t wear masks anymore. We do live rurally, so we aren’t generally in crowded situations when we are out and about. 

My kids are all in school. Dh goes to work every day. We are living “normally” because we need to figure out how to live with Covid. It’s here to stay, and our lives can’t stop forever. 

[SKL]

Personally I trust the vaccine enough that I only mask in relatively high risk situations, and when I am required to.

I don't go around people much in the first place, so when I do visit my closest loved ones, it's not likely that I'm infected.  And I'm not all up in everyone's face.

If I was afraid of the small risk of infection due to a person being very high risk for bad outcomes, I probably would not attend a gathering but visit at a different time when I could exercise the level of care I deem wise.

[HSmomof2]

4 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Ok, I didn't want to hijack the other thread, so I will just put my musings here. Though, I guess I don't know why I care so much what the Hive thinks...

No one I know is as cautious as I am. No one. I went with hubby to a mission leaders conference. We flew, wore our N95's.  We also wore them at the conference of approximately 50 people. We were the only ones wearing a mask. All of these people are family practice, surgeons, PA's, etc. Every single person was double vaxxed and everyone I talked to had already had their boosters. 

Afterwards, when I went back to mom's I wore a mask 24/7 around her when I stayed with her.

We will be going to my MIL's for Christmas and through New Year's.  The people that I know have boosters: MIL, me, husband, oldest, bil,both sil's. Double vaccinated: our middle one, our daughter, and two nieces.  BIL and two SIL work in the school systems where students do not wear masks. I know one SIL does, but I am not sure about my BIL/SIL.  My daughter's university is still mandatory masks. The choir performed in masks when we watched them. 

No one will be wearing masks for Christmas and I do not want to. My husband will say testing is overkill and to be honest, with that thing in Norway with the party where they were all vaxxed and tested for the event and still over half of them got it...testing seems pretty useless.  I really don't want to wear a mask. I will when I return to my mom again, though I really hate that as well.  

I do not know anyone who is anti-vax. Everyone vaccinates, but then everyone lives their life. I mean they mask if they are required to.  They don't gripe about it at all. They do it. But I know that no one will wear a mask over Christmas.

Is that OK? Are we bad people? I am so tired of wearing N95's everywhere I go. They are not comfortable. I have trouble understanding if everyone wears masks. I am just so tired of this. 

I don’t think this is unreasonable at all. Everyone in our local extended family is vaccinated and boosted—the teens under 17 will all be boosted by next week, and we don’t  have any younger kids. We’ll get together for Christmas (11 people), and won’t test or wear masks. I’ll keep some windows cracked, and if anyone in this group had any type of symptoms, they would not come. I still mask in public—stores, church, etc, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. We’re in a very anti-mask/anti-vax area and still have a lot of community spread. However, since I’ve been boosted, I have eaten in a restaurant twice during non-crowded times and wore a mask when not eating, but I have not worn a mask when in a small group with others who I know are vaccinated/boosted. I’m kinda to the point that I’ve done everything I can to protect myself and family. I’ll gladly continue masking in public places to protect others and possibly myself, but I just can’t keep up the mental energy required to be so cautious—- and the isolation has done some damage to our family, especially my teens. So, I’m trying to have a more balanced approach. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

My husband and I both work at home.  The kids attend school fully masked.  Other than the doctor’s office, school is the only indoor community activity for the family.  We don’t go to stores, we don’t go to church.  And we had unmasked Thanksgiving at my mother-in-laws house this year.  It was nine people instead of the usual 25+, but otherwise it was just a normal family gathering.  So even the super cautious are doing unmasked family gatherings!

Someday we will have to open up our lives a little bit now that our kids are vaccinated, but I’m not opening up in winter.  It’s not just Covid I’m worried about, any infection can trigger my LongCovid symptoms.  I’ll revaluate in the spring.

[Ausmumof3]

My current approach is no masks for family stuff, cloth for low risk, N95 inside with bigger groups (mostly limited my bigger groups though.) My youngest can’t get vaxed yet and my parents can’t get a booster till six months so the four to six month window will be risky for them.  I don’t think either choice is a bad choice at this point - it’s just a personal risk management decision.

[TexasProud]

12 hours ago, SKL said:

 

If I was afraid of the small risk of infection due to a person being very high risk for bad outcomes, I probably would not attend a gathering but visit at a different time when I could exercise the level of care I deem wise.

Well, my mom isn't involved in this celebration. But my husband says that since my mom goes out to eat breakfast with one of her couple friends every Saturday morning, and her friends visit her without masks, I should quit worrying so much. I AM wearing a mask when I am around other people and around my mom.

Thank you hive. I appreciate it. 

[KungFuPanda]

I live in an area that is super careful about masks. I was in Costco yesterday (for my booster) and saw a family walking around mask-free. Everyone was doing a double take because we’re not used to faces yet.
 

Even WITH this level of political and public will to mask, the schools were seeing an uptick in cases last week. My theory is that unmasked thanksgiving gatherings contributed. I’m assuming the people who got it were gathering with less careful family members, but the increase was higher in the high schools than the elementary schools, so I’m not sure why the numbers worked out that way. 

My mom was going to visit me after Christmas but she wanted to bring an unvaccinated nephew with her. He’s on a waiting list for a vaccine, and his last day of school is the 17th, but I had to tell her “not yet” because she lives in an area where nobody is careful and I can’t trust that this kid will only spend time with vaccinated people. Ugh. It feels like the goal post keeps moving. 
 

Even if it’s likely we’ll all get it eventually, due to my son’s serious health issues, we need to hold out for the mildest form possible so he’ll have MORE family holidays in the future. 

[KSera]

6 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

the increase was higher in the high schools than the elementary schools, so I’m not sure why the numbers worked out that way. 

It’s been the same way here, and I have assumed it’s because the elementary kids are with just their class all day, where as high school kids rotate through 6-7 classes a day and expose a lot more people.  

[chiguirre]

15 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, I would except my mom is dealing with Stage 4 metastatic cancer and I am there with her nearly every week for several days. So I don't want to catch anything. I am wearing my mask around her when I have been around people in the last week, which lately has been all the time. In January, I should be back to hunkering down, so maybe I won't have to wear them around her, but I will only do that if I wear N95's everywhere else.   My aunt is going to be with her for Christmas so I can go to my MIL. 

Given this unique circumstance, I think I'd wear a mask around other people at your MIL's. I'd take it off in my room. It will be uncomfortable but you will probably feel better doing everything possible to protect your mother. I'm sure everyone at your gathering will understand why you have to be extra, super cautious and will respect you for being such a caring daughter.

If you didn't have to be a caregiver to an immune suppressed mother, I would just tell you to enjoy a maskless Christmas and not worry at all.

Hugs, OP!!!

[TexasProud]

33 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

Given this unique circumstance, I think I'd wear a mask around other people at your MIL's. I'd take it off in my room. It will be uncomfortable but you will probably feel better doing everything possible to protect your mother. I'm sure everyone at your gathering will understand why you have to be extra, super cautious and will respect you for being such a caring daughter.

If you didn't have to be a caregiver to an immune suppressed mother, I would just tell you to enjoy a maskless Christmas and not worry at all.

Hugs, OP!!!

I know you are probably right, but man is there ANYWHERE I don't have to mask. I am just so tired of being the only one masking everywhere...even in my own house. Just so incredibly tired of it. My husband is out in the community... I guess I should mask around him to... Just so incredibly tired of all of this. I miss people. Everyone is doing choir concerts, Christmas parties...all the writers I listen to talk about how the rush and frantic activity of Christmas is upon them. 

Yeah frantic activity of going back and forth to mom's and constant vigilance. I miss Christmas. I miss friends. I miss family. Real family get togethers with hugs and seeing facial expressions and not having people ask me to constantly repeat myself because they cannot understand me in my mask. Just tired.

[regentrude]

38 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

Given this unique circumstance, I think I'd wear a mask around other people at your MIL's. I'd take it off in my room. It will be uncomfortable but you will probably feel better doing everything possible to protect your mother. I'm sure everyone at your gathering will understand why you have to be extra, super cautious and will respect you for being such a caring daughter.

If you didn't have to be a caregiver to an immune suppressed mother, I would just tell you to enjoy a maskless Christmas and not worry at all.

Hugs, OP!!!

Otoh, if the OP's mom goes out to breakfast every weekend and is getting together with unmasked friends, I don't see why the OP ( who doesn't go out and isn't exposed) should be more cautious than the mother herself.

[freesia]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

Otoh, if the OP's mom goes out to breakfast every weekend and is getting together with unmasked friends, I don't see why the OP ( who doesn't go out and isn't exposed) should be more cautious than the mother herself.

I agree with this, OP.  It sounds like your mom would be ok with it. 

[Terabith]

I think perhaps I'm the poster you were referring to?  I certainly don't think anyone who is vaccinated and doesn't mask around vaccinated family is bad.  We do not mask around vaccinated family members.  We visit with my in laws once or twice a week without masks.  Even before vaccinations, we considered them part of our pod, but at that time both families were WAY more locked down, with pretty much only exposure being masked trips to the grocery store or pharmacy.  If your mother were pretty locked down, given her health issues, I think it would make sense for you to mask at the gathering, but if she's eating out and such, I'm not sure that you need to be more careful than she is being.  The reason I am asking my family to test is because of unvaccinated children and my sister's family being (unavoidably for the most part, and I'm in no way criticizing them) pretty exposed.  And we are also testing, because my kids are in school, even though they are masked.  

Seriously, nobody thinks you are being reckless.  We all draw lines at different places, and there's loads of places to draw the lines that are completely reasonable.  There's no reason for you to be anxious about the level of precautions that you are making.  

[Grace Hopper]

All of our gathering people are vaxxed and boosted except for one.
 

This person refuses the vaccine for political reasons, no health or bona fide religious exemption. 
 

Personally I am no longer willing to take responsibility for this person’s choices. As someone above said, coronavirus is here to stay. We have to live. So unless I am ill, I’m comfortable not masking at our family gathering. 
 

With your cancer patient circumstances, I might plan to not see her for a 5-7 days afterwards and perhaps do a test on myself just to be sure. Sounds like you might need that to give yourself peace over it. 
 

[sassenach]

Not masking is totally reasonable imo. You're not terrible, you're doing great.

[KungFuPanda]

Given your mother's diagnosis, I might be tempted to enjoy the holiday's unmasked with your vaccinated group, but mask up around HER until you're sure you didn't catch anything at your holiday gathering.  It might make you feel better and give you a bit of a mask break without worrying that you're going to harm your mother.

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Given your mother's diagnosis, I might be tempted to enjoy the holiday's unmasked with your vaccinated group, but mask up around HER until you're sure you didn't catch anything at your holiday gathering.  It might make you feel better and give you a bit of a mask break without worrying that you're going to harm your mother.

Yeah, that is what I am thinking.