At what point would you lock down again?

[wathe]

4 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

For those with mask mandates in schools, does this include K-6?

We are returning to face to face teaching in four weeks, and masks are not mandated for primary school. 

Here, masking in schools is compulsory starting in grade 1, province-wide.  Some school boards have added mask mandates for kindy age also (my board has done this, as I think most have).  The mask mandate for general public places is age 2 and up.

Edited September 23, 2021 by wathe

[cintinative]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Cases in US and worldwide seem to be fairly consistently trending down.  I expect there will be another winter spike but hopefully not as bad as last year. Strangely deaths in US are still trending upward.  I know there is a lag with deaths but it seems more pronounced this time.

This is something about the pandemic that I will never completely understand. When things peak in another state, like FL, and we are trailing behind them, I expect that our curve will peak also but at a later date, but often times it is not the kind of peak that I expect.  Our hospital numbers continue to creep up to very close to our worst level from last winter but our case numbers aren't our worst.  I am wondering (lately) if people are not getting tested and/or are using home kits. 

[Happy2BaMom]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Cases in US and worldwide seem to be fairly consistently trending down.  I expect there will be another winter spike but hopefully not as bad as last year. Strangely deaths in US are still trending upward.  I know there is a lag with deaths but it seems more pronounced this time.

I no longer rely on cases, for the US at least. In some states, it's difficult to get testing done (wait times, limited locations, etc), and I think pandemic fatigue & an unwillingness on the part of some to test positive ("I don't want to be part of a government statistic" is a phrase I've heard numerous times) means fewer # of people are testing, even when they have symptoms....which also means that they are often much sicker by the time they seek medical help, which contributes to higher deaths. Plus, Delta doesn't f*ck around. It can chew through people's lungs in less than a week and is FAR less forgiving than Alpha.

ETA: Even with all the above, cases are still trending up in some states, and it's not clear in the states where cases are dropping, whether the trend will last. I do still watch the hospitalization numbers.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Happy2BaMom

[TravelingChris]

On 8/22/2021 at 8:57 PM, KSera said:

It really is so sad, because I know he and others like him really do (did) believe that Covid is not a risk to them and that the shot would be somehow worse. And now he’s gone, like so many others. I have heard many people say exactly the same he did (including here on this board), that they feel they are not at risk for severe Covid. I always wonder why some people think they are bullet proof when it’s clear at this point there is no group that is naturally immune to serious sequlae or death from this disease. 

Well there is a group that is immune to bad COVID but I really doubt almost anyone knows if they are in that group--- it has to do with genetics.  Genetic researchers have found a few genes that make COVID especially bad and a few genes that make getting symptomatic COVID a lot less likely.  But again, I do not believe that the people who claim they aren't going to get bad COVID have any idea whether they have good COVID genes, bad COVID genes or just no genes that confer any danger or any resistance to COVID at all.  

It is especially tragic that men claim they are not at risk.  The statistics bear out that being a male, and I mean being born a male-regardless of what gender that person adopts,  is a major health risk for COVID.  For whatever reason,  CDC and other health officials keep ignoring that elephant in the room.  And I do not know if males or females are more likely to be vaccine refusers but the male vaccine refusers are making the loudest outcries.  

 

[TravelingChris]

On 8/28/2021 at 7:53 PM, kokotg said:

Well, I'd love to see an experiment where we actually did everything we could reasonably do to make schools safe, and I definitely haven't seen that--particularly this year--where I am. Of course, schools were never closed for a year here, either. But having covid rip through schools uncontrolled is really disruptive and overtaxes local health care systems at best (i.e. in the absence of kids dying or having bad long term health outcomes). It makes no sense at all not to do what we can to keep spread low. 

School systems got a lot of money-  and I really mean tons of money, like high hundreds of millions, from the feds and a lot of them have no idea of what to do with the money.  What all of them should be doing is greatly improving ventilation-- but in my area, I have heard only one school district that is doing this and it isn't mine.  In Alabama, by far the largest portion of the state budget is for schools.  For whatever incentive reasons or tax reasons or ????, Al has the biggest school building funds that I have ever seen in any state,  I have lived in a number of states and traveled to all states except HI and AK,  and never seen the proportion of brand new school buildings like here in AL,  All the school districts seem to keep replacing old school buildings with new ones.  Unfortunately for the children, almost all of the new school buildings have few windows (because our normal, greatest natural threat is felt to be tornados, not COVID,.  however, in reality, infectious diseases do actually kill more students than tornados).  And that gets to a point that people who are familiar with how statistics and studies are used by people know very well-- people remember the school that was destroyed and the students that died there and tornados make a much bigger impression of threat, than the occasional death of students from meningitis, flu, RSV, etc.  But buildings can be built and retrofitted with good ventilation systems even if the windows are sparse and can't be opened.  After all, airplanes do have windows but those don't open and yet, after COVID and the steps they have taken, they have one of the very best inside environments with regards to airborne infectious diseases which are most of the ways we get sick.  One school district in my viewing area did decide to use their jackpot of money mostly to improve ventilation.    

[sangtarah]

9 hours ago, cintinative said:

So @ktgrok what is this nonsense about the new FL surgeon general  (a doctor.?) thinking the COVID vaccine is “nothing special”? I swear sometimes I don’t understand who DeSantis’ target audience is. 

Ugh, I saw that yesterday and lamented having to move into this mess! 

Apparently he was a part of America’s Frontline Drs, and signed the Great Barrington Declaration. He taught at UCLA. 

He hasn’t been confirmed yet but still issued an emergency order that schools do not have to quarantine asymptomatic close contacts; it’s up to parents to do that, and if they decide to keep them home it’s only for 7 days. Also no tests required unless they develop symptoms. Also reinforced that it’s parents choice whether to mask their kids. 

[Faith-manor]

We are now averaging about 2500-3000 cases per day. 23 school districts with outbreaks. Four districts in my county have outbreaks, but the local district still refuses to force masks. I think it is because some of the parents physically threatened the school board, "We will be waiting by your cars and you will pay" was the terminology. I used to be under the impression that publicly made threats such as this were taken seriously by law enforcement, but I was entirely WRONG about that. 

Our vaccination rate for this county is 39% fully vaxed, and 43% with one shot. Not high enough to do diddly squat. the unvaxers are not going to be happy campers if they they get it and need the hospital. The stitch and ditch can do nothing for them. The god so city hospitals they normally turf everyone to have said they are not going to take covid patients from our county. The county medical director has begun calling around to find out where they can send people once the sh#t hits the fan. I think this time it is very possible no one will. Michigan is on an upswing and if the city hospitals get hammered, since it is the rural areas with bizarrely low vax rates, I think they will stop taking transfers from the rural areas. The local stitch and ditch hospital morgue has only two refrigerator drawers/cubicles. I sent a letter to the editor of the local newspaper suggesting that the county commissioners request a couple of morgue trucks from the national guard now while there is time so they don't have bodies stacked on the sidewalks. I can guarantee you that they aren't going to publish that in the next issue!

Meanwhile, in the publicly funded human zoo known as "school", a very bad label for the institution I might add, they never were able to hire staff and faculty, so the kids at the elementary school are still spending most of the day, shoulder to shoulder, in th gym watching videos, and being taken out in groups for 10-15 minute sessions of math, reading, and LA. All the written work is sent home because they can't move desks into the gym and have enough room for all the kids. There is no pretense of teaching social studies, science, art, etc. They claim they have music everyday because they sing two songs in the morning. This does not bother the parents just so long as their are no masks.

It is not possible to reason with such insanity. At this point, all I can do is take care of my own family.

[Not_a_Number]

41 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

I no longer rely on cases, for the US at least. In some states, it's difficult to get testing done (wait times, limited locations, etc), and I think pandemic fatigue & an unwillingness on the part of some to test positive ("I don't want to be part of a government statistic" is a phrase I've heard numerous times) means fewer # of people are testing, even when they have symptoms....which also means that they are often much sicker by the time they seek medical help, which contributes to higher deaths. Plus, Delta doesn't f*ck around. It can chew through people's lungs in less than a week and is FAR less forgiving than Alpha.

ETA: Even with all the above, cases are still trending up in some states, and it's not clear in the states where cases are dropping, whether the trend will last. I do still watch the hospitalization numbers.

I expect a really serious spike in October or November if we keep dallying on the boosters. Now, I could be wrong. I was wrong about schools. I keep being wrong about schools. But I have pretty serious concerns. 

[ktgrok]

10 hours ago, cintinative said:

So @ktgrok what is this nonsense about the new FL surgeon general  (a doctor.?) thinking the COVID vaccine is “nothing special”? I swear sometimes I don’t understand who DeSantis’ target audience is. 

He's a political appointee. It's all good old boy politics in florida. Well, there is a weird strain of pay for play in Palm Beach County that isn't really good old boy as much as it's own version of House of Cards, but Palm Beach County is really just South New York, lol. (t lived almost my whole life there until I married DH)

As for his target audience, he wants to be President, and is targeting Trump supporters across the country. Not just the ones here, but all over. And the ones not here can talk about how bold DeathSantis is without actually having to live with the consequences of his idiocy. 

Or, he really is working for Wolfram and Hart, and trying to move up the demonic ladder. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

We are now averaging about 2500-3000 cases per day. 23 school districts with outbreaks. Four districts in my county have outbreaks, but the local district still refuses to force masks. I think it is because some of the parents physically threatened the school board, "We will be waiting by your cars and you will pay" was the terminology. I used to be under the impression that publicly made threats such as this were taken seriously by law enforcement, but I was entirely WRONG about that. 

Our vaccination rate for this county is 39% fully vaxed, and 43% with one shot. Not high enough to do diddly squat. the unvaxers are not going to be happy campers if they they get it and need the hospital. The stitch and ditch can do nothing for them. The god so city hospitals they normally turf everyone to have said they are not going to take covid patients from our county. The county medical director has begun calling around to find out where they can send people once the sh#t hits the fan. I think this time it is very possible no one will. Michigan is on an upswing and if the city hospitals get hammered, since it is the rural areas with bizarrely low vax rates, I think they will stop taking transfers from the rural areas. The local stitch and ditch hospital morgue has only two refrigerator drawers/cubicles. I sent a letter to the editor of the local newspaper suggesting that the county commissioners request a couple of morgue trucks from the national guard now while there is time so they don't have bodies stacked on the sidewalks. I can guarantee you that they aren't going to publish that in the next issue!

Meanwhile, in the publicly funded human zoo known as "school", a very bad label for the institution I might add, they never were able to hire staff and faculty, so the kids at the elementary school are still spending most of the day, shoulder to shoulder, in th gym watching videos, and being taken out in groups for 10-15 minute sessions of math, reading, and LA. All the written work is sent home because they can't move desks into the gym and have enough room for all the kids. There is no pretense of teaching social studies, science, art, etc. They claim they have music everyday because they sing two songs in the morning. This does not bother the parents just so long as their are no masks.

It is not possible to reason with such insanity. At this point, all I can do is take care of my own family.

That sounds... I don't even think I have words for how it sounds. That's awful. 

[kokotg]

8 hours ago, KSera said:

That’s what I was thinking today. I expected masks to continue to help a whole lot, but with Delta, I thought it still wouldn’t be enough to keep outbreaks down. So far, it’s looking like places with strong mask mandates in their schools are doing quite well, especially when coupled with high vaccination rates in the community.

Here numbers are definitely lower in districts with mask mandates, but they're much higher than they were last year (and much higher than the overall community numbers, which was never true in most counties with mask mandates last year). I would guess it's because we had higher community numbers to start with and relatively low vaccination rates, and they were already rising before school started and because even in districts with mask mandates precautions overall are much less stringent than in much of the country and much less stringent than last year. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, kokotg said:

Here numbers are definitely lower in districts with mask mandates, but they're much higher than they were last year (and much higher than the overall community numbers, which was never true in most counties with mask mandates last year). I would guess it's because we had higher community numbers to start with and relatively low vaccination rates, and they were already rising before school started and because even in districts with mask mandates precautions overall are much less stringent than in much of the country and much less stringent than last year. 

Huh. So that's actually a bad sign. I know you've been watching those numbers for quite a long time, so that's concerning and makes me worry. 

How much higher are the rates in school compared to community rates? 

[kokotg]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Huh. So that's actually a bad sign. I know you've been watching those numbers for quite a long time, so that's concerning and makes me worry. 

How much higher are the rates in school compared to community rates? 

In my county (with a mask mandate), for the 2 weeks ending September 16 there were 696 cases (out of about 105,000 students and staff), which would be a 14 day incident rate of 663. County 14 day rate over the same period was 473 (disclaimer; my county includes Atlanta, but the school district does not; Atlanta is its own district). The number has been going down pretty sharply after peaking a few weeks after schools opened, though. For the two weeks ending August 26, there were 1517 cases, but the county incident rate was nearly identical then, at 480. I'm not sure what to make of that. Could be that schools have gotten more careful because of high early numbers (although not in any particularly concrete ways that I can see); could just be that so many kids have been exposed/gotten sick at this point that hosts are getting harder to find.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, kokotg said:

In my county (with a mask mandate), for the 2 weeks ending September 16 there were 696 cases (out of about 105,000 students and staff), which would be a 14 day incident rate of 663. County 14 day rate over the same period was 473 (disclaimer; my county includes Atlanta, but the school district does not; Atlanta is its own district). The number has been going down pretty sharply after peaking a few weeks after schools opened, though. For the two weeks ending August 26, there were 1517 cases, but the county incident rate was nearly identical then, at 480. I'm not sure what to make of that. Could be that schools have gotten more careful because of high early numbers (although not in any particularly concrete ways that I can see); could just be that so many kids have been exposed/gotten sick at this point that hosts are getting harder to find.

Are people testing kids more or no? I know some places test the kids at school, which will definitely increase the rates of catching asymptomatic cases. 

[kokotg]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Are people testing kids more or no? I know some places test the kids at school, which will definitely increase the rates of catching asymptomatic cases. 

I don't know...the current policies definitely don't encourage testing, so I doubt it. Like they're not mandating quarantines for asymptomatic close contacts now, so if I understand it correctly (it's very convoluted and seems to change rapidly), you'd only need to keep your asymptomatic kid home if you decide to test, while waiting for test results. If you don't test, they can go to school every day unless they have symptoms. ETA: they are coming out with a plan in certain zip codes (not mine) to provide free home rapid tests, so that might change the testing landscape somewhat.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by kokotg

[Not_a_Number]

20 minutes ago, kokotg said:

I don't know...the current policies definitely don't encourage testing, so I doubt it. Like they're not mandating quarantines for asymptomatic close contacts now, so if I understand it correctly (it's very convoluted and seems to change rapidly), you'd only need to keep your asymptomatic kid home if you decide to test, while waiting for test results. If you don't test, they can go to school every day unless they have symptoms. ETA: they are coming out with a plan in certain zip codes (not mine) to provide free home rapid tests, so that might change the testing landscape somewhat.

Hmmm, so then it doesn't sound like the school numbers would be an overestimate. Worrisome. 

[ktgrok]

Oh, and regarding Florida and quarantining from contact in schools, it probably won't matter any way.  See, the county doesn't get the notice to you that you need to quaranting until about day 8 anyway...by then it is nearly pointless. Hence our huge numbers in schools. 

Alachua County purchased air filter units - some fancy ones made for classrooms that can turn over the air 3-5 times an hour and filter out viruses. But as far as I know they are the ONLY county. 

What's crazy is Alachua is NOT a particularly high brow, or metropolitan area. It isn't like Palm Beach, or Broward, or Hillsborough with Tampa, or Orange with Orlando. It has large areas that are very rural, good ol' boy redneck backwoods Floridians. BUT, it does have UF and the associated Shands Hospital....so all I can think is that the school district is being advised by experts at Shands or something. Alachua was also one of the first to defy DeathSantis about masks in schools, if not the first. (can't remember if it was them or Miami Dade)

That said, numbers are going down in Florida, either from schools that are masking, the gradual vaccinating being done, or just burning through people. (my guess is that last one). 

I admit that as much as I hate my nieces being sick (a week later still pretty sick - I facetimed with them yesterday and they look very peaked - pale with dark circles under their eyes), I'm grateful they will have immunity for the next 3 months at least. Cause then I can go see them! The younger one was diagnosed with dyslexia, and y'all know I'm ALL about that, would love to be able to tutor her! (this is a school system that teaches that the first approach is to guess with pictures). She is so freakng smart too! She is able to pass reading tests at grade level, from memorizing some words visually and figuring out context. But can't sound out ANYTHING. She's profoundly dyslexic based on her testing, but getting A's in school. I know I could be a big help, as my sister doesn't have the time, and frankly is probably at least slightly dyslexic herself. 

Another reason we are PRAYIng to get this house - I'd be less than 10 minutes from their house and the school the kids go to, so could tutor her after school a few days a week. 

[TravelingChris]

On 9/3/2021 at 2:21 PM, ktgrok said:

I suppose the difference to me is that one is optional and one isn't, for most. also, if your kid comes down with Covid from school you quarantine at home. If it is half a country away you are paying for a hotel, etc and having to deal with changing flights for the next 10 days or so. Plus trying to access medical care in an unfamiliar place. And trying to isolate that family member, when in a hotel, may be even more difficult. 

 

 

It depends on the medication. I had chlorpheniramine on hand for my cat - same as human stuff. Just have to adjust dosage. Cat takes 1/2 a pill, humans take 1 tablet, dogs take more than humans (by weight). I once took 2, as I was so used to giving my big pit bull mix 2 at a time. I was OUT for hours, lol. I realized what I'd done right after swallowing and told my mom, "if you need anything from me, you have about 20 minutes...then I'm going to be asleep for the next few hours". 

And cats also take more by weight.  My former cat-dd2 took her away as an emotional support animal to her final year in college and it is was, I was found to have developed an allergy to cats very shortly after that--- took the same dosage of amitriptyline (10mg) for her OCD that I take for my nerve pain.  And she weighed 8 lbs there. It has to do with their much higher metabolism, I think.

 

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, cintinative said:

This is something about the pandemic that I will never completely understand. When things peak in another state, like FL, and we are trailing behind them, I expect that our curve will peak also but at a later date, but often times it is not the kind of peak that I expect.  Our hospital numbers continue to creep up to very close to our worst level from last winter but our case numbers aren't our worst.  I am wondering (lately) if people are not getting tested and/or are using home kits. 

I think you are right on this. Last time, people masked up (and a mandate was put in place when it was clear not enough people would do so voluntarily). This time, I think it's testing. The amount of "don't turn me in to the health department" talk that was out about contact tracing last year has me pretty convinced that people are doing all they can to not harm friends but also not be on the health department's radar. Since I've unfollowed, unfriended, or snoozed these people, I can't be certain. They feel they can do their own contact tracing, etc. (and since the only health department letters we go when my son was exposed at school came on the day he would've finished quarantine had he not been masked/vaccinated, contact tracing here is pretty poor). 

Lots of local schools lengthened their Labor Day weekend with a shut down and some added mask mandates when they did so (some are temporary, I think). Our old church shut down a bunch of activities this week (after an event that involved someone infectious). 

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Oh, and regarding Florida and quarantining from contact in schools, it probably won't matter any way.  See, the county doesn't get the notice to you that you need to quaranting until about day 8 anyway...by then it is nearly pointless. Hence our huge numbers in schools. 

Alachua County purchased air filter units - some fancy ones made for classrooms that can turn over the air 3-5 times an hour and filter out viruses. But as far as I know they are the ONLY county. 

What's crazy is Alachua is NOT a particularly high brow, or metropolitan area. It isn't like Palm Beach, or Broward, or Hillsborough with Tampa, or Orange with Orlando. It has large areas that are very rural, good ol' boy redneck backwoods Floridians. BUT, it does have UF and the associated Shands Hospital....so all I can think is that the school district is being advised by experts at Shands or something. Alachua was also one of the first to defy DeathSantis about masks in schools, if not the first. (can't remember if it was them or Miami Dade)

That said, numbers are going down in Florida, either from schools that are masking, the gradual vaccinating being done, or just burning through people. (my guess is that last one). 

I admit that as much as I hate my nieces being sick (a week later still pretty sick - I facetimed with them yesterday and they look very peaked - pale with dark circles under their eyes), I'm grateful they will have immunity for the next 3 months at least. Cause then I can go see them! The younger one was diagnosed with dyslexia, and y'all know I'm ALL about that, would love to be able to tutor her! (this is a school system that teaches that the first approach is to guess with pictures). She is so freakng smart too! She is able to pass reading tests at grade level, from memorizing some words visually and figuring out context. But can't sound out ANYTHING. She's profoundly dyslexic based on her testing, but getting A's in school. I know I could be a big help, as my sister doesn't have the time, and frankly is probably at least slightly dyslexic herself. 

Another reason we are PRAYIng to get this house - I'd be less than 10 minutes from their house and the school the kids go to, so could tutor her after school a few days a week. 

I think that counties that have medical schools and research hospitals, over all, seem to be following their health advice, even if it means bucking the governor to do it. I can definitely see it here in Memphis with UT medical school and St. Jude. 

[cintinative]

4 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I think that counties that have medical schools and research hospitals, over all, seem to be following their health advice, even if it means bucking the governor to do it. I can definitely see it here in Memphis with UT medical school and St. Jude. 

I wish that was true here. I am not seeing it. Hamilton County (UC Hospital/medical school) and Cleveland (Cuyahoga County--Cleveland Clinic, etc.) have not really been better than the rest of the state that I have noticed.  @kbutton What do you think? I have not followed Cleveland that closely.

[kbutton]

2 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I wish that was true here. I am not seeing it. Hamilton County (UC Hospital/medical school) and Cleveland (Cuyahoga County--Cleveland Clinic, etc.) have not really been better than the rest of the state that I have noticed.  @kbutton What do you think? I have not followed Cleveland that closely.

I haven't followed Cleveland, honestly.

The Cincinnati area hospitals (including close by in KY) are on the verge of overwhelm (waxes and wanes), and they stave it off by sending home people who wouldn't have been sent home with a less full hospital (like everywhere else) and adding rooms/staff when and if they can do so. The ERs are busy again, and some have intermittently really bad waits. I can't be too specific, but providers do get ill as well--this is going to affect staffing eventually (and HCWs need boosters); some of this is from extracurricular exposure, not work, I am certain (vaccines are mandated in these systems, though I think the due date has not arrived for all of them yet). They are cracking down on who can get monoclonal antibodies as well (and that might be from the CDC, not just a local thing). Numbers are still shaky--up a little, down a little. 

People aren't routinely masking their kids north of Hamilton county except when required pretty much at all. Yes, I am farther out into the more "rural" (sort of) area, but we're close to TWO of the five(?) children's hospitals in the state. TWO. EVERYONE'S kids eventually get care at one or the other or both, even if it's not specialty care--most people use their urgent cares for after hours illnesses, etc. These hospitals have put out public pleas for people to do the right thing. They talk about how masks won't harm kids physically or socially/developmentally. Friends whose kids are in a bigger private school here said their enrollment went through the roof this year, and I think it's likely because they don't have a mask mandate. A lot of local districts don't either, but I think local districts left the option open if numbers get high. 

[SKL]

22 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I wish that was true here. I am not seeing it. Hamilton County (UC Hospital/medical school) and Cleveland (Cuyahoga County--Cleveland Clinic, etc.) have not really been better than the rest of the state that I have noticed.  @kbutton What do you think? I have not followed Cleveland that closely.

Despite its wonderful healthcare and educational offerings, Cleveland isn't what you'd call a college town; it's a large city that is roughly 50% AA.  Vax rates for AA are much lower than for other races, and at least in this state, it isn't due to lack of access.  I know some AA individuals who are dead set against getting vaxed.  Some have had Covid, some have not (so far) (that we know of).

I believe the Cleveland school district has required masks since day one of school (2021).

Cuyahoga county case numbers aren't great nor terrible at this point (considering current national trends).  It's the far northern part of the state, though, and Delta has been moving from south to north, so we'll see if that changes.

Edited September 23, 2021 by SKL

[cintinative]

19 minutes ago, kbutton said:

People aren't routinely masking their kids north of Hamilton county except when required pretty much at all. Yes, I am farther out into the more "rural" (sort of) area, but we're close to TWO of the five(?) children's hospitals in the state. TWO. EVERYONE'S kids eventually get care at one or the other or both, even if it's not specialty care--most people use their urgent cares for after hours illnesses, etc. These hospitals have put out public pleas for people to do the right thing. They talk about how masks won't harm kids physically or socially/developmentally. 

I live in Warren County and this is my experience. I will never understand the logic of "even though the Children's hospitals are practically begging us to mask, we won't do it."  Sometimes I want to believe people are just misinformed on masking and not making a conscious choice, but it is so hard to take that position when the position of Children's hospital is all over the news.  What size rock would you have to hide under?  And if they heard the news, what sort of mental gymnastics are they going through to justify their current lack of masking?  I am just so grieved anymore. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by cintinative

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

I live in Warren County and this is my experience. I will never understand the logic of "even though the Children's hospitals are practically begging us to mask, we won't do it."  Sometimes I want to believe people are just misinformed on masking and not making a conscious choice, but it is so hard to take that position when the position of Children's hospital is all over the news.  What size rock would you have to hide under?  And if they heard the news, what sort of mental gymnastics are they going through to justify their current lack of masking?  I am just so grieved anymore. 

Me too, but in a different corner of it. And Warren County is where the school superintendents want to have kids "quarantine" in class with a mask on vs. at home. Sigh. Pretty much all the schools in Warren County exempt their students from quarantine if they are masked or vaccinated while exposed in the first place, so the reward for not masking and not vaccinating is being allowed to mask at school vs. missing school. Great logic! In the news, the idea of this strategy (which they are pushing as a pilot project to make it sound legit) is that too many kids who never get sick are stuck at home. To which I pointed out to our super that if they'd mask and/or vaccinate, the wouldn't miss at all unless they were symptomatic. I am so disappointed. I believe every super signed it, and I think at least two of the schools in Warren County were on the top ten list of schools in the state with high cases a couple of weeks ago (can't remember if that was per 100,000 or what the measure was). 

I would've never thought it was this backward here, lol! But I know people in other places that are facing the same pressure and resistance from parents. The older crowd is more diverse in their opinions, but the 50s and under crowd is totally truculent and intractable.

[Kassia]

30 minutes ago, kbutton said:

 

I would've never thought it was this backward here, lol! But I know people in other places that are facing the same pressure and resistance from parents. The older crowd is more diverse in their opinions, but the 50s and under crowd is totally truculent and intractable.

I'm in Geauga county and it's like this here too.  Parents are pushing HARD against masks and quarantines.  The community got our county health director fired and praised the health board last night for NOT wearing masks during an indoor standing room only meeting.  Meanwhile, our tiny hospital that was already overflowing pre-Covid has many Covid patients now.  When we go out, almost no one is masked.  It's really disturbing.  No one cares about science - it's all about their rights.  

[Carrie12345]

I already made it clear that I wouldn’t be helping with an indoor event tomorrow, knowing the people involved would not mask and being pretty confident at least half aren’t vaxxed. Now, two of the people going have a child who, as of two days ago, “might have Covid”. I haven’t heard any update, but I also haven’t heard any back up plan. This is why I have no life!

My county’s numbers haven’t been updated for 2 days now. Wth is that all about???

[ktgrok]

So, update on my sister's family. Sister (vaccinated) tested positive, one niece tested positive. Other has consistently and repeatedly tested negative on both a PCR and at least 5 rapid home tests. Which seemed really odd, but my sister thinks, given that she hasn't gotten it despite sharing an oral thermometer with her feverish sister all morning the day sister tested positive (true story - my sister did NOT realize this was happening, obviously!) and laying pretty much on top of her sick sister and mother, she probably had it back in early summer. She had gone on a trip with her dad to Utah and came home with a high fever, really sick. The doctor found an ear infection, and my niece is terrified of medical stuff so was sick and feverish and freaking out over a covid or flu test, and since they knew she did have an ear infection they didn't do the covid test at the time. She recovered and they didn't think much of it until now. 

So, either she already had it - or she is just somehow naturally immune, lol. 

Also, I thought it way too coincidental that she was sick as well, if not covid, but it turns out she had a sinus thing going BEFORE they had the exposure to the person who gave them Covid. So not really "at the same time" and totally different symptoms from my sister and other niece. The ones who tested positive have flu like symptoms, the one who tested negative has sinus infection symptoms, and is getting better on antibiotics. (she has allergies and they go to sinus infection regularly)

So, yeah. I hate that they are sick, but at least once they are better we will kind of assume they are immune for the next little while. (she's getting an antibody test for the one who tested negative - kid freaks out over flu/strep/deep covid test but has no issue with bloodwork, lol) And they will get to see my mom, which they are thrilled about. And with us moving near them, I won't worry about seeing them, and can start tutoring my niece with dyslexia. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by ktgrok

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

I already made it clear that I wouldn’t be helping with an indoor event tomorrow, knowing the people involved would not mask and being pretty confident at least half aren’t vaxxed. Now, two of the people going have a child who, as of two days ago, “might have Covid”. I haven’t heard any update, but I also haven’t heard any back up plan. This is why I have no life!

My county’s numbers haven’t been updated for 2 days now. Wth is that all about???

Our state is only updating twice per week. It makes me angry.

We now have 5 schools in the county with an outbreak. The local religious school is one of them. The pastor at that church has had covid  twice. Beta last fall, Delta now. They still have no protocols at the school.

Meanwhile, the county commissioners are still fighting the state for the right to place a bizarrely unqualified person in the position or county health department director. 

If I were writing a dystopian, apocalyptic novel, I would  only need to document the stupid here. No need to come up with an original idea, just write down the days news, sit in on some county commissioner and school board meetings, voila, novel done.

[KSera]

On 9/23/2021 at 5:55 AM, kokotg said:

Here numbers are definitely lower in districts with mask mandates, but they're much higher than they were last year (and much higher than the overall community numbers, which was never true in most counties with mask mandates last year). I would guess it's because we had higher community numbers to start with and relatively low vaccination rates, and they were already rising before school started and because even in districts with mask mandates precautions overall are much less stringent than in much of the country and much less stringent than last year. 

What is a your vaccination rate?

23 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I admit that as much as I hate my nieces being sick (a week later still pretty sick - I facetimed with them yesterday and they look very peaked - pale with dark circles under their eyes), I'm grateful they will have immunity for the next 3 months at least. Cause then I can go see them! 

I was just wondering about this scenario myself. How safe are people feeling about visiting people after they recover from Covid, if they are people you previously were not seeing due to Covid risk? Would you visit indoors with people after recovery if you are otherwise not going indoors with other people? It seems like it would theoretically be safe for 2-3 months at least, but I don’t know what we know about transmission vs disease in this population. 

[Happy2BaMom]

19 hours ago, Kassia said:

I'm in Geauga county and it's like this here too.  Parents are pushing HARD against masks and quarantines.  The community got our county health director fired and praised the health board last night for NOT wearing masks during an indoor standing room only meeting.  Meanwhile, our tiny hospital that was already overflowing pre-Covid has many Covid patients now.  When we go out, almost no one is masked.  It's really disturbing.  No one cares about science - it's all about their rights.  

And in the land of reality.....Ohio among worst states for kids hospitalized for COVID-19, 9 have died.

But, it is hopeless with the deniers. Friend of a friend of mine is a massive denier/hoaxer/anti (everything). She & her husband recently both ended up in the hospital with Covid pneumonia (they are both in their 30s, no comorbidities....and they have two elementary age children). They both recovered. She's back to regularly shit-posting anti-vaccine, anti-mask, anti-government stuff.

I'm convinced this will only end when enough of them die off that the sheer numbers begin to make a difference. Which, even at 2,000 deaths/day, is going to take awhile.

[Spryte]

3 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

And in the land of reality.....Ohio among worst states for kids hospitalized for COVID-19, 9 have died.

But, it is hopeless with the deniers. Friend of a friend of mine is a massive denier/hoaxer/anti (everything). She & her husband recently both ended up in the hospital with Covid pneumonia (they are both in their 30s, no comorbidities....and they have two elementary age children). They both recovered. She's back to regularly shit-posting anti-vaccine, anti-mask, anti-government stuff.

I'm convinced this will only end when enough of them die off that the sheer numbers begin to make a difference. Which, even at 2,000 deaths/day, is going to take awhile.

Oh dear. I had hoped that my married friends who are both in hospital would have a more careful attitude upon recovery. I see now that’s not always the case. 
 

It’s impossible to understand.

[Lady Florida.]

23 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I think that counties that have medical schools and research hospitals, over all, seem to be following their health advice, even if it means bucking the governor to do it. I can definitely see it here in Memphis with UT medical school and St. Jude. 

This makes sense. Alachua County Florida has the University of Florida which has a teaching hospital and a pediatric specialty hospital, along with a medical school. Alachua County isn't getting the press that Miami-Dade has been getting but they've been bucking our governor all along. 

[Faith-manor]

4 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

And in the land of reality.....Ohio among worst states for kids hospitalized for COVID-19, 9 have died.

But, it is hopeless with the deniers. Friend of a friend of mine is a massive denier/hoaxer/anti (everything). She & her husband recently both ended up in the hospital with Covid pneumonia (they are both in their 30s, no comorbidities....and they have two elementary age children). They both recovered. She's back to regularly shit-posting anti-vaccine, anti-mask, anti-government stuff.

I'm convinced this will only end when enough of them die off that the sheer numbers begin to make a difference. Which, even at 2,000 deaths/day, is going to take awhile.

Sadly, I agree. I think the conspiracy stuff will not end until enough of them lose a spouse, a child, themselves die, or get long covid. I don't know what the magic number is, but I suspect north of 1.5 million dead, and 10 million or more with long covid and applying for disability in order for the economy to crash enough to get their attention. It does appear that economy and "maintaining the status quo" are the only considerations for a lot of people judging by what they post on social media.

[MEmama]

27 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Sadly, I agree. I think the conspiracy stuff will not end until enough of them lose a spouse, a child, themselves die, or get long covid. I don't know what the magic number is, but I suspect north of 1.5 million dead, and 10 million or more with long covid and applying for disability in order for the economy to crash enough to get their attention. It does appear that economy and "maintaining the status quo" are the only considerations for a lot of people judging by what they post on social media.

I don’t think there’s a number high enough to convince them. Because rationalization #1: They don’t die of covid—it’s always pneumonia/doctors negligence/or their god's will as a last resort. Which conveniently leads to rationalization #2 if they do die: they went home to jesus or something similar. And anyway there’s nothing that could be done because rationalization #3 is always in the back pocket: they were going to die of something, *shrug*.  We’ve seen all the excuses here on this board. 
 

Gofundme ensures that other people can be counted on to pay for medical fees and funerals (whether needed or not), and government assistance (ie socialism for me but not for thee) will help with the later realities. 
 

There’s a disturbingly large demographic willing to dig in and blame anyone/anything else rather than admit they were wrong. And they seemingly have no limit to the depths of the hole they are willing to dig for themselves. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by MEmama

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Happy2BaMom said:

And in the land of reality.....Ohio among worst states for kids hospitalized for COVID-19, 9 have died.

But, it is hopeless with the deniers. Friend of a friend of mine is a massive denier/hoaxer/anti (everything). She & her husband recently both ended up in the hospital with Covid pneumonia (they are both in their 30s, no comorbidities....and they have two elementary age children). They both recovered. She's back to regularly shit-posting anti-vaccine, anti-mask, anti-government stuff.

I'm convinced this will only end when enough of them die off that the sheer numbers begin to make a difference. Which, even at 2,000 deaths/day, is going to take awhile.

To give some context - 9 children have died in Ohio with Covid since the beginning of the pandemic.  Most of them were not recent deaths.  6 of them were under age 5, and 3 were aged 5-17.  I'm not sure whether or not these deaths include kids who died from other causes who also had Covid.  Ohio is the 7th largest state in the US and its rate of child deaths (or really any other stat) is not unusually high nor unusually low.

ETA by contrast some bigger states' cumulative child Covid deaths:  California, population 40M, deaths 35.  Texas, population 29M, deaths 74.  Florida, population 21M, deaths 17 but this is only for ages 0-15.  New York, population 19M, deaths provided for NYC alone, 29.  Pennsylvania, population 13M, deaths 17.  Illinois, population 13M, deaths 25.  Ohio, population 12M, deaths 9.  Georgia, population 11M, deaths 15.

The Delta wave is making its way through Ohio right now, so higher hospitalization numbers are not surprising.  As has been discussed before, we don't know how many of these are kids were in the hospital for other reasons and got a positive Covid test since they test everyone who is going into the hospital (symptomatic or not).

Edited September 24, 2021 by SKL

[kokotg]

2 hours ago, KSera said:

What is a your vaccination rate?

 

It looks like my county is right around 50% fully vaccinated

[kokotg]

For some further context re: pediatric deaths, the AAP reports more than 120 in the US just since the end of July (5 states not reporting). Pediatric flu deaths in the entire 2019-2020 flu season tied a record at 188. So if this pace were to stay steady, we'd have 4x as many pediatric covid deaths in a year as flu deaths in a record setting year. It's a lot of dead kids. For a death to be counted as a covid death, covid must be determined to have been a contributing cause of death: https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-it-s-complicated (i.e. while it's true for children as for everyone that covid often has an easier time killing you if you had other stuff going on, those things wouldn't have killed you at that time without covid). https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AAP and CHA - Children and COVID-19 State Data Report 9.16 FINAL.pdf

[kbutton]

23 hours ago, kbutton said:

Me too, but in a different corner of it. And Warren County is where the school superintendents want to have kids "quarantine" in class with a mask on vs. at home. Sigh. Pretty much all the schools in Warren County exempt their students from quarantine if they are masked or vaccinated while exposed in the first place, so the reward for not masking and not vaccinating is being allowed to mask at school vs. missing school. Great logic! In the news, the idea of this strategy (which they are pushing as a pilot project to make it sound legit) is that too many kids who never get sick are stuck at home. To which I pointed out to our super that if they'd mask and/or vaccinate, the wouldn't miss at all unless they were symptomatic. I am so disappointed. I believe every super signed it, and I think at least two of the schools in Warren County were on the top ten list of schools in the state with high cases a couple of weeks ago (can't remember if that was per 100,000 or what the measure was). 

I would've never thought it was this backward here, lol! But I know people in other places that are facing the same pressure and resistance from parents. The older crowd is more diverse in their opinions, but the 50s and under crowd is totally truculent and intractable.

Quoting myself to say this pilot program passed whatever muster was required, and the children of Warren County are now guinea pigs. You should see how jubilant the announcement seems with exhortations to stay healthy. Just spit in my eye, why don’t they?!? What hypocrisy. 

[rebcoola]

Local response from the schools requiring test or Vax to go to homecoming.  Is to throw a second homecoming.  Special appeal to athletes to skip the real homecoming because if they test positive they risk being quarantined and messing up the whole season for their teams.  😒

[Carrie12345]

I finally found data on our school district the other day, and was genuinely surprised. We have <9000 students across 9 buildings (not evenly distributed.) They’re using a 10 day case count, which is currently 20 kids and single digits for staff.

I’m not saying 20-something is *good, but I’d expect it to be higher in that setting/age range than the general population numbers. 8 in 2 days, if I’m not mistaken, runs close to our 43/100,000.  
(It had been 12 kids when I first saw it, and I *think that was Wed night or Thurs. morning.)
 

10yo is chomping at the bit for his shots. What makes me both proud and entirely devastated is his calmness when he tells us that, even if his kid shot doesn’t get through, he’ll be 12 in less than 2 years. (15 months.) He has clearly faced and accepted that scenario. I cannot imagine being 10 and having accepted the idea of another 15+ months of near-quarantine on top of the 20 months or so he’s already had. 😞 

We do have an all-outdoor event today, but it’s likely our last one until spring. So zero in-person for him until he’s covered.

[ktgrok]

Florida's numbers continue to get better...I think we burned out a lot of "fuel" for now, and hopefully we will get kids vaccinated before the next round. DD desperately needs her eyes examined, our county is at I think 7%...may schedule it this week. 

[Dmmetler]

20 hours ago, rebcoola said:

Local response from the schools requiring test or Vax to go to homecoming.  Is to throw a second homecoming.  Special appeal to athletes to skip the real homecoming because if they test positive they risk being quarantined and messing up the whole season for their teams.  😒

A lot of the local parent groups did that for prom last year, including going over county or even state lines to get to a place that didn’t have capacity limits and mask mandates.  Sigh….

[Corraleno]

CDC says data from 1,000 schools in AZ (Maricopa & Pima counties) shows that schools without mask mandates are 3.5x more likely to have outbreaks compared to schools that started with a mandate in place.  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7039e1.htm?s_cid=mm7039e1_w

CDC also found that "increases in pediatric COVID-19 case rates during the start of the 2021–22 school year were smaller in U.S. counties with school mask requirements than in those without school mask requirements." Findings are preliminary and they plan to do a more detailed analysis:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7039e3.htm?s_cid=mm7039e3_w

[ktgrok]

And now my other niece is positive. So much for being immune. Also, she didn't test positive until I think 10 days after her sister started having symptoms, even being all up on top of each other. Totally sucks, both for her as far as being sick, but also because she already missed school for 10 days, now will be out longer, and my poor sister is a single mom trying to manage working and taking care of sick kids. Normally my mom always babysat if the kids were sick but obviously she can't with this! (mom has COPD and other lung issues and has not been boostered yet - goes on Friday)

And with my kids not vaccinated, and me not boostered yet, I can't/won't do it. Plus, I have to be here to watch my own kids. Ugh. 

[Not_a_Number]

24 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

And now my other niece is positive. So much for being immune. Also, she didn't test positive until I think 10 days after her sister started having symptoms, even being all up on top of each other. Totally sucks, both for her as far as being sick, but also because she already missed school for 10 days, now will be out longer, and my poor sister is a single mom trying to manage working and taking care of sick kids. Normally my mom always babysat if the kids were sick but obviously she can't with this! (mom has COPD and other lung issues and has not been boostered yet - goes on Friday)

And with my kids not vaccinated, and me not boostered yet, I can't/won't do it. Plus, I have to be here to watch my own kids. Ugh. 

Oh no 😞 . Ugh. How is everyone feeling? 

[ktgrok]

so it's been 2 weeks and my sister just now feels up to washing the dishes without falling over. She developed bronchitis and is on steroids now which are helping. Kids are better, no coughing, no fever, the second one to get sick is a bit fatigued by end of day and doesn't have smell/taste back but the first to get sick has hers mostly back. 

[Not_a_Number]

DD5's best friend from preschool just recently went to kindergarten and apparently was quarantined all of last week due a to breakthrough case in the school's drama teacher 😕 . As far as I know, no one got sick, though. 

[Faith-manor]

Update for our grandsons in Alabama:

Two families that were former home schoolers, and are good friends with our dd and her husband, are back to homeschooling after nothing but disruption after disruption for exposures and quarantines. I feel bad for them, because these moms really wanted to get back to work. The up side, if there is one, is that they have formed a pod with our Huntsville family so that the three families have each other and their children can be together often. Our eldest grandson, almost six, has been diagnosed with a heart condition that at the moment makes covid, rsv, and any kind of pneumonia extra deadly so he has been a very isolated little boy since his outdoor pool/swim lessons ended. He now has friends to play with again, and our daughter and son in law have companionship when we came be there. 

Dh, who had JnJ, is anxiously waiting a second dose or a recommendation for a dose of Moderna or Pfizer. I had Moderna and am camping at the bit to get a third dose. Our DWB doctor friend said he would write a script for a Pfizer shot for me by Christmas, off label, if nothing has been offered yet and one for dh as well just for added protection for N. We are going down this month to spend two weeks with them, and will be doing a ten day isolation prior to the trip especially since dh is almost six months post JnJ. I feel a little bit more confident about my Moderna, but not enough to go hang out with other people right before going to see them. Thankfully, the bachelor uncles all have 10 days between finals week and leaving for Alabama (2 grad school students in apartments but face on classes, and one undergraduate in dorms) to Christmas, so they can hunker down here with us, and then we can travel together.

I wish I could just walk into a pharmacy and get a third Moderna based on that fact that I help care for two elderly mothers with serious medical conditions and a grandson who simply cannot get this. But, because I am not a professional caregiver, the pharmacies do not consider me a "high risk profession". So that is the line locally. If you get a pay check for it, then you can get another shot of vaccine. If you don't, but you still do it anyway, sucks to be you and sucks to be your patient! Sigh. I don't know. Maybe I should just lie.  Seems to be a bit immoral to make the line on medical care giving whether or not you get a paycheck. They are even holding that line on volunteer work for schools. Some people, seeing the sh't show that has been " education" at the local PS, decided to volunteer to work at the elementary school. These folks all had Pfizer last February/March. They went to get the booster because they are now four and five days a week with kids. The pharmacies asked for a prescription or proof of being employed by the school. No shot. Pisses me off monumentally. And some of them are going to quit because covid has just started going around the kids in that building. But without that boost, I can't blame them for bailing. If you live in a place where they are not asking or requiring verification, be very thankful!

 

 

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I don't know. Maybe I should just lie. 

I think you should, personally. I don't see it as immoral in this case to claim that you're eligible for some reason or another. (Plus, are you sure you aren't? The criteria are quite broad.)