Jump to content

Menu

At what point would you lock down again?


Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, cintinative said:

We are all vaxxed here. He would only say that this means he does not need to be as cautious because look--most people who are vaxxed do not end up in the hospital (which is true! except that the babies and toddlers in church can't be vaxxed and we can still be carriers).   Not arguing with you, I promise. I have tried. I really have. 

I think it's very encouraging that he's vaccinated. Being suspicious about hospitals and the media is concerning, but the fact that he's vaccinated while feeling this way is HUGE. 

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I do think being vaxxed means he can be less cautious. That seems reasonable to me. I do plan to return to something like normal life after we're all vaxxed, assuming there aren't tons of vaccine-resistant variants floating around. 

True. But if we can still spread COVID to others, I think the kind and others-centered thing to do is to wear masks when we are out. 

  • Like 12
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Honestly, this sounds like motivated reasoning, which means you can't possibly get through to him. I suppose the best way to try to do so would be to slooowly wear him down: when I've convinced people of things, it has been over years of patient and unflappable unchangeability, along with plenty of outside evidence. But honestly, that's an unpleasant way to run one's life, and I don't actually try to convince most people of things. 

That’s great marriage advice: slowly wear your spouse down until they think exactly how you want them to think

 

/end sarcasm, in case it isn’t obvious

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, cintinative said:

True. But if we can still spread COVID to others, I think the kind and others-centered thing to do is to wear masks when we are out. 

I certainly would myself. But I'll stop feeling that way after all age groups can be vaccinated, I think, at least if cases in my area aren't skyrocketing. That being said, I foresee COVID making a long-term impact on how I behave, and masking in public crowded spaces may very well stick around for us. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, cintinative said:

confused. Do you agree with what this article is saying? 

Everything I post isn't my belief.  It is just news clips.  Do I believe in some of that the article is saying.  Yes.   Covid is here to stay.   Did I judge all the college football games that had 80k people at, yes yes.  Would I go to one?  Nope.   Am I having trouble opening up?  Yes.  It was a real struggle for me at first.  Now I am more just waiting for the shoe to drop after opening up. 

But I would say I am still a CovidPhobe.  I want to loosen up and rejoin things and travel.  But I am worried.  I am careful.  We are doing really thought out and careful things.  I am not jumping on a plane to travel now even though I want to.  I have 3 unvaccinated kids that I hope to get a shot into before they get Covid. We are doing everything we can to make sure that happens.   But my kids also need to be involved in things for their mental health.  They didn't do anything in person until July.  So my 3 youngers are going to outdoor nature schools with masks inside and out.  My kids are doing ballet at their studio with masks, temp checks, most everyone 12 and up vaccinated.  (They had to be to be in the show they are doing).   We are trying out outdoor sports like mountain biking, sailing, and horseback riding.   The last 2 we do with private lessons.  Mountain biking ds does with a team and then they do with dh.   We  mask everywhere and don't play outside with others in our neighborhood because nobody masks here.  I was going to let the kids play with others outside and then Delta.  I don't know if that is ok to do anymore without masks.  One day I am all about living like everyone  in my neighborhood does, and the next I am thinking about crowded hospitals, the sad stories of people dying now, and the possibility of long Covid.   

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

1. no.  I wouldn't go to anything indoors where everyone isn't masked.  I freak out at the store if there are a lot of unmasked people even though I am vaxxed and wearing a KN95 mask.  Just not comfortable for me to do right now.  I was kind of freaking out going to a show indoors with everyone masked and vaxxed or negative test.  As much as I want to see that show, I just don't think I want to give that test right now and see how it goes.  

2  no.  But to be fair, I have a negative desire to go into a restaurant now.  Maybe on an outdoor patio would be the only thing I could think of doing. 

 

3 yes.  We never stopped masking.  We started in March 2020 when we were the only ones in our area doing it.  We did even after dh and I were vaxxed, because we had unvaxxed kids and just wanted to be extra careful.  We wanted to see how the vaccine really did with everything.  We even masked outdoors in close proximity to people.  To me it is nothing hard to do to just give you an extra layer of protection.  The only time I hate is when it 90 plus degrees.  I honestly don't know when I will be able to go indoors without a mask.  I feel like there was like a few weeks when Delta wasn't there where it might have been ok.   

Edited by mommyoffive
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, cintinative said:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

1. absolutely not.

2. No. (Unless the restaurant is very empty, I am in a party of only vaccinated people, very far away from other patrons - we ate inside a Panera once during the pandemic since it was freezing; closest other people 20 ft away, wolfed down our food to get back on the road). Local positivity is a meaningless number to me, since it is unclear how many folks test. You can achieve low positivity rates if there's a lot of routine testing and high rates if only sick people test.

3. Yes, I would still wear a mask in public indoor settings. I am in a room with 200 people every single week for work, so have a high exposure risk already, and thus also am a larger risk to others. Unless numbers dwindle to low local incidences.

If that makes me a Covid phobe in the eyes of the readers of the washington examiner (where the recently linked article came from), I don't give a crap about their opinion.

Edited by regentrude
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

1) We haven't returned to church yet, because there are too many elderly people there, and I don't know that they are fully protected.  My kids are going to school and sports.  We could spread germs despite our vax.  Church is an hour+ of shared air.

2) We never stopped going to restaurants weekly (except when they had to shut down during Spring 2020).  Spread in restaurants has been proven to be very low, and now, everyone serving us has had the opportunity to be vaxed.  People at higher risk have other reasonable options.

3) Grocery would be each person's choice IMO.  We don't go there often - we get most groceries delivered - but I do send my kids in to grab some groceries and do self-checkout at times.  They are not breathing in anyone's face and they aren't there long.  People at higher risk have options other than walking through the grocery store and breathing my kids' germs.  The few times I've walked through a store I've been very quick and I naturally stay away from others.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

My whole family is vaxed but we are not doing those things. I honestly don’t know what the positivity is around here, because I haven’t looked, and because a lot of people here don’t bother testing unless they get really sick, so I don’t think any numbers are very meaningful. I  react based on the fact that at least 1/2 the available ICU beds, and often more, at my hospital are Covid patients and have been for several months. I have never known such a large proportion of ICU beds to be taken up by 1 diagnosis before.
I did listen to a podcast with ZDoggMd and Monica Gandhi where they mentioned several recent studies showing that vaccinated people appeared to be a lot less likely to spread Covid while infected, so that seems encouraging.

 

ETA. My girls and I are masking inside, my husband does some, but not everywhere. Fortunately he had the Moderna vax so I’m hoping he just isn’t going to get infected, and so can’t spread anything.

I’ve kind of given up doing much more than what I think is the right thing and being a good example rather than being vocal unless asked. I feel like I’m hanging by a thread and just surviving. The toll from looking after people and getting to know them, and helping them fight it, and then seeing them almost inevitably lose the battle and die is just almost too much to bear anymore. If people who think it’s exaggerated want my job I’ll happily step aside and let them have it.

Edited by TCB
  • Sad 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

Number 1. If we were still Christians, the answer would be no because if only 1 out of 5 people is masked despite the recommendations, then that whole "do unto others" thing and "love your neighbor" means exactly zilch to them.

2. Probably not. We really enjoy outside dining anyway. But in Michigan, from May - October, this is very doable. It means not eating indoors at restaurants during the winter unless positivity rates drop. I would do it at 1-5%. After that, it dings my nope risk assessment radar.

3. My whole immediate family is vaxed, and we still do not do indoor public without a mask. I still use curbside pick up. And this past winter of no sore throats, no influenza, no colds, no laryngitis has convinced me that grocery shopping with a mask on in winter is here to stay for me. My mother in law does not appear to have formed any immunity despite the shot. She chose JnJ, but when boosters come out, her doctor is going to get her a Pfizer and see if she shows any signs of immune response. She has a lot of health problems and is 85. While I can't protect her from everything and have to balance having a life of some kind with her health, I am not looking to deliberately shove her into the grave either. So crowded indoor places are.going to be mask situations for us for a very long time. Michigan is beginning its "everyone came home from cabins/camping/beaches/woods and going indoors life again with kids starting schools, most rural districts having no covid precautions whatsoever. It is about to get scary again.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

1. Not really. We were doing this, but only going to Sunday School to avoid singing. It's a new to us church that masked, distanced, the whole works for a very long time. Vaccination was encouraged from the pulpit, so their vax rate is probably high. But with very few people masking, we are just uneasy with numbers going up locally. We'd probably be comfortable going masked if rates drop again. Maybe not comfortable, but we'd think it was important enough to go in spite of the mild risk. 

2. No. We ate out exactly one time (had to meet up with out of town family to exchange people). Delta was not a thing in the US or the region yet, and we were all vaccinated. It was during that tiny pause before Delta went crazy.

3. Yes. We do so because of public health guidance that says everyone needs to be masked indoors. Climbing numbers mean we're back to grocery pickup in the parking lot, actually. If someone needs to go into a store that is sort of a hassle for online orders or doesn't have an online option, DH wears a fit-tested N-95 and does it since he's already the most exposed person in the house. We don't use a specific metric other than "it's getting worse here and at DH's work."

We will do some kind of modifications as long as it's officially a pandemic (and if it is a local epidemic), but those modifications will increase or decrease based on our risk and on spread.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

1. No, dh and I are 5 months out from our second shots, and I'll feel more confident when we've had boosters. Basically we're doing what's necessary indoors in masked environments (school, work) but being very choosy about optional indoor things. Outdoor or online Mass for now. For dd15, I've said she could go masked with friends to the art museum which is huge, well-ventilated and not crowded, but not to the movie theater, which has been divided into small rooms. 

2. No, just patio dining and takeout. Had a fabulous patio dinner in view of a lake the other night and there was a guy having a coughing fit at the other end of the patio, which confirmed for me that I wouldn't be comfortable inside. 

3. Still masking in all public indoor settings for our and others' health. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

1. no

2  no

3 yes

Same answers for me. 

I will be at in-person, indoor church this weekend for the first time since the pandemic started. But masking is required and honestly knowing our congregation, I'd be really shocked if our vax rate among over-12s isn't close to 100%.  And ETA:  There won't be singing.

I am considering going back to my fitness studio if they changed policy to either check to make sure everyone is vaxxed, OR require everyone to wear one (I'd be happier with both, but they're doing neither). I would mask myself.  

I was okay with the non-checking and non-masking of others with only myself masked this summer when cases here were super-low, but not since Delta's hit. I might be okay with that again once the wave has passed. 

Edited by Matryoshka
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Acadie said:

1. No, dh and I are 5 months out from our second shots, and I'll feel more confident when we've had boosters. Basically we're doing what's necessary indoors in masked environments (school, work) but being very choosy about optional indoor things. Outdoor or online Mass for now. For dd15, I've said she could go masked with friends to the art museum which is huge, well-ventilated and not crowded, but not to the movie theater, which has been divided into small rooms. 

2. No, just patio dining and takeout. Had a fabulous patio dinner in view of a lake the other night and there was a guy having a coughing fit at the other end of the patio, which confirmed for me that I wouldn't be comfortable inside. 

3. Still masking in all public indoor settings for our and others' health. 

Yep me too.  I am worried about that.   I want the 4 of us to get a 3rd shot now.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, cintinative said:

We are all vaxxed here. He would only say that this means he does not need to be as cautious because look--most people who are vaxxed do not end up in the hospital (which is true! except that the babies and toddlers in church can't be vaxxed and we can still be carriers).   Not arguing with you, I promise. I have tried. I really have. 

Is it mostly church that you disagree about?

That is a tough one.  Most people I know IRL seem to be comfortable going to church (if they normally would go).  I think I'm an outlier on that one.

I just feel that if anyone should be able to attend church safely, it should be the elderly who are preparing for their final reward.  There is no reason in my mind that our high school germs need to be there right now.  We'll go back when it's safer for the elderly.

(If I was alone, working at home, getting my exercise walking in the open air, then ... maybe I'd feel differently.  I'm not sure.  But my reality is that my kids are almost certainly exposed to Covid.)

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

We are vaccinated and we wear masks in groups and in indoor settings.

1--No, not comfortable at all. I currently go to our small group class on Sundays that is in a wing alone, but I do not go to our regular large Sunday service. Dh and I are literally the only masked people in the entire building each week. That's just toooooo much viral load being generated by talking and singing. No attempts at ventilation anywhere. 

2---Absolutely not. Way too much viral load. Breakthrough cases do happen. I already fought for my life in the ICU once (a couple years ago for a life-threatening abdominal infection). It was deeply traumatizing and I live with permanent effects from that wretched infection. There is no way I would risk another major illness.

3--Yes, definitely. Case numbers and hospitalizations need to get down quite a bit lower. Also I'm a little spooked by breakthrough cases and I hope and pray we find a way to generate vaccines that are a closer match for Delta (and Mu and the other variants that pop up). So--the two determining factors for me are spread and ongoing vaccine availability. After this wretched pandemic I have also learned the value of ventilation, so that is a factor in my comfort level as well. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

1. No. It's too long in one space with people talking, singing etc.

2.  No.  Not worth it.  If we really want restaurant food we'll do takeout.

3.  Yes.  Even vaxxed I can catch and spread covid so I mask indoors.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

1) Right now, no.  Not solely because of COVID risk but because of what that says about their theology and attitude toward the world.  Our church is still combined Zoom and in person, in person is 100% masked.  We believe that’s part of how to be a Christian in the current situation.  
 

2) 15% positivity is high.  I realize we’ve shifted the thought window on this since so many places are even higher, but no, I would not even consider it until it’s under 5%.

3) We mask in grocery stores when cases and positivity rates are going up in our state. I track COVID stats not because I care about the specific risk of encountering a contagious person on this particular shopping trip but because I want to know which direction they’re heading.  Numbers going up means they’re heading the wrong direction and everyone should be doing everything they reasonably can to turn that around. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, SKL said:

2) We never stopped going to restaurants weekly ...  People at higher risk have other reasonable options.

3)   People at higher risk have options other than walking through the grocery store and breathing my kids' germs.  

What other reasonable options do high risk employees have? If you're a waitress or a cashier, you don't have the privilege of working from home.

I have noticed in others of your posts that you tend to overlook the folks who have to work in these places. 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1.  Yes -- although there is virtually no masking at our church.  I don't agree with how my church is handling covid at all, but it my kids' main social outlet.  Other than work, we would have no other activities, so any spread from our family would likely be from church members to other church members.  They would be our "bubble".  I'm not comfortable with it, but I want to do it for my kids.  We will definitely wait until dd11 is vaccinated and we *might* wait until the vaccine is available for all age groups.

2.  Yes -- Dh and I only eat out a few times a year.  If all of the kids were vaxed, I would feel comfortable with going on a date with my husband once every six months as we have previously.

3.  Yes -- I would still mask at the grocery store.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, SKL said:

Is it mostly church that you disagree about?

That is a tough one.  Most people I know IRL seem to be comfortable going to church (if they normally would go).  I think I'm an outlier on that one.

I just feel that if anyone should be able to attend church safely, it should be the elderly who are preparing for their final reward.  There is no reason in my mind that our high school germs need to be there right now.  We'll go back when it's safer for the elderly.

(If I was alone, working at home, getting my exercise walking in the open air, then ... maybe I'd feel differently.  I'm not sure.  But my reality is that my kids are almost certainly exposed to Covid.)

No, it's a whole other thread really.   He also is of the opinion that the mask mandates (which OH doesn't have anymore, but I digress), etc. are all part of slippery slope that will lead us all into communism.  It's that whole "freedom as an individual" versus "responsibility to the community" debate that we have been discussing for months. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

1 - no.  Unless I know local vaccine rates were high and numbers were very low.  Like in June, I might have done this but I was still getting my bearings in June lol.  I didn't get my 2nd vaccine until mid May.  

It would depend on local culture too.  If I were in an area with high covid denial, I also would just assume those who were not vaccinating and not masking, were probably not being hyper aware of covid symptoms and testing like we might here.  Like I go to a UU church and I would trust their in person activities now and they still are streaming and doing stuff online too.  

2- No.  I still haven't eaten inside a restaurant but I've done tons of takeout to eat outdoors and some patios.  Just not worth it for me.  I am trying to tip staff big right now for take out and I mask up for curbside to respect employees.  

3 - yes, we're all masking again with this latest surge.  Though in June I was running a few errands without masks.  

Now all that said, this last weekend I did an indoor performance with probably a few hundred masked people on a college campus with a 90% vaccine rate and an indoor mask mandate.  I've kind of decided, we need to take some risks.  My college kid was actually IN the performance.  But if I'm going to get breakthrough covid, it's going to be somewhere I REALLY want to be and not somewhere like a random chain restaurant or a grocery store.  Or somewhere my teenager really NEEDS to be (she is doing some in person activities this fall and yes she is vaccinated).  We are still using curbside at Target and our local grocery store which are both doing an excellent job with covid protocols and have fully masked staff again now.  

I am anxious to get a booster assuming the data holds on that.  

Edited by FuzzyCatz
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Church isn’t important to me, so it’s hard to answer that one. I would consider double masking and sitting away from people if it was really important to me. 
 

My parents are in their 80’s snd love to go out to dinner. It’s their most favorite activity, so we have done this with them. Everyone at the table is vaccinated and we try to pick well, but we have done it. I won’t do it otherwise, only with them. 
 

I mask in all stores again. I don’t mind masking, it’s easy for me to do and I think it’s helpful to me and everyone else in the store just in case. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

1. No, I believe that we should be protecting everyone, including those who can't be vaccinated.  It isn't just about me and my family.  I gave up my "rights" when I decided to follow Christ.  And I honestly find it very disturbing that so many Christians are pushing "my rights" and "my body my choice" (with regards to masks and vaccines).  What about caring for other people, especially the vulnerable.  Church (the body of Christ) should be about caring for other people.

2.  No, probably not.  We have eating out at a restaurant once in this whole time.  It was in June when numbers and positivity were very low in a restaurant that could only be opened to a certain percent of customers, and masks were required of all staff and any unvaccinated patrons.  But to me this is a moot point, our positivity rate is much higher than that.  The state dashboard said 99.3% yesterday for my county, thought they do say they are missing some negative test data, I also know my county has not been testing enough, and doctors refuse to test people, and so on.

3.  Yes, but we have an indoor mask mandate here.  But realistically my mask is mostly to protect other people, not myself, so if I am the only one masking it isn't doing me a whole heck of a lot of good, while others are running around spreading viruses.

I am feeling very angry this morning.  Our county coroner just had to request the county commissioners declare an emergency and bring in refrigeration trucks because we can't handle the volume of dead people.  When it was announced on social media, people are saying that the county/coroner are lying and that they don't really need it.  Truly they are just willfully ignorant.

We have a push from loud obnoxious community members to get rid of masking, people refusing to mask even with a mandate, our local commissioners meetings and city council meetings are over run by anti-maskers.  The whole thing is just crazy.  Last night a city close to my had their meeting shut down because the city manager had the police chief and officers there to enforce masking at the city council meeting.  Many city council members left so there couldn't be a quorum.  And community members are calling on our (anti-mask) sheriff to take charge of the police station.  I know him and he won't do it (I hope), and he is not a vocal anti-masker, but the idea that people see this as a great solution astounds me.

I do curbside pick-up exclusively now, we only go to doctor/dentist appointments, and meeting with a very limited number of family who are also cautious and vaccinated.

  • Sad 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

1. No.

2. Yes, under certain conditions. DH and I went out last night, for the first time since the lull before Delta got bad. We went early to a restaurant we felt certain wouldn't be crowded on a weeknight. For awhile we had the place to ourselves, although more people were there and coming in when we were leaving.

3. Yes. We do. We stopped for a couple of weeks during the lull, but started right back as soon as case numbers started rising again.

Edited by Pawz4me
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, cintinative said:

No, it's a whole other thread really.   He also is of the opinion that the mask mandates (which OH doesn't have anymore, but I digress), etc. are all part of slippery slope that will lead us all into communism.  It's that whole "freedom as an individual" versus "responsibility to the community" debate that we have been discussing for months. 

Yeah, I personally don't consider mandates to have anything to do with my personal responsibility to the community.  If I have no choice, I do what I have to do because I have to, not because I'm responsible.  If I have a choice, I do a thing based on my feeling of responsibility.

I think freedom as an individual is very compatible with responsibility to the community.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Loowit said:

1. No, I believe that we should be protecting everyone, including those who can't be vaccinated.  It isn't just about me and my family.  I gave up my "rights" when I decided to follow Christ.  And I honestly find it very disturbing that so many Christians are pushing "my rights" and "my body my choice" (with regards to masks and vaccines).  What about caring for other people, especially the vulnerable.  Church (the body of Christ) should be about caring for other people.

2.  No, probably not.  We have eating out at a restaurant once in this whole time.  It was in June when numbers and positivity were very low in a restaurant that could only be opened to a certain percent of customers, and masks were required of all staff and any unvaccinated patrons.  But to me this is a moot point, our positivity rate is much higher than that.  The state dashboard said 99.3% yesterday for my county, thought they do say they are missing some negative test data, I also know my county has not been testing enough, and doctors refuse to test people, and so on.

3.  Yes, but we have an indoor mask mandate here.  But realistically my mask is mostly to protect other people, not myself, so if I am the only one masking it isn't doing me a whole heck of a lot of good, while others are running around spreading viruses.

I am feeling very angry this morning.  Our county coroner just had to request the county commissioners declare an emergency and bring in refrigeration trucks because we can't handle the volume of dead people.  When it was announced on social media, people are saying that the county/coroner are lying and that they don't really need it.  Truly they are just willfully ignorant.

We have a push from loud obnoxious community members to get rid of masking, people refusing to mask even with a mandate, our local commissioners meetings and city council meetings are over run by anti-maskers.  The whole thing is just crazy.  Last night a city close to my had their meeting shut down because the city manager had the police chief and officers there to enforce masking at the city council meeting.  Many city council members left so there couldn't be a quorum.  And community members are calling on our (anti-mask) sheriff to take charge of the police station.  I know him and he won't do it (I hope), and he is not a vocal anti-masker, but the idea that people see this as a great solution astounds me.

I do curbside pick-up exclusively now, we only go to doctor/dentist appointments, and meeting with a very limited number of family who are also cautious and vaccinated.

It is a similar situation here. I have started to view folks like this as "walkers" from the "Walking Dead" show. All I want to do is get away.

Our county commissioners are certifiable. They went after our county health director - whom we share with another county - and called her every kind of vicious, vile, misogynistic thing you can dream up without any consequences. She quit. They can't hire anyone. They want someone who tells them it is "the common cold, let it rip", and once prospective hires find this out, they run like the wind. Of course a few of the local docs also provide interviewees with minutes from previous meetings and screen shots of their social media, and well, let's say it doesn't leave a favorable impression to working with these a$$holes. So now we face the ramp up going into this next wave which has started with two counties that have no public health director and vaccination rates below 50% with the unmasked crowd running around like they deliberately want to infect people.

Walking Dead. That's my county.

  • Sad 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, regentrude said:

What other reasonable options do high risk employees have? If you're a waitress or a cashier, you don't have the privilege of working from home.

I have noticed in others of your posts that you tend to overlook the folks who have to work in these places. 

You're entitled to your personal opinion.

The science says that what we're doing, fully vaccinated, is very low risk.

I'm not interested in your opinion of me.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

You're entitled to your personal opinion.
The science says that what we're doing, fully vaccinated, is very low risk.
I'm not interested in your opinion of me.

You did not answer my question: what "other options" were you referring to that you suggest for the high risk people?

I have no problem with you going to stores or choosing to eat in restaurants. My problem is with your statement that at-risk people have "other options". Maybe I am overlooking what those are. 

Edited by regentrude
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

50 minutes ago, cintinative said:

No, it's a whole other thread really.   He also is of the opinion that the mask mandates (which OH doesn't have anymore, but I digress), etc. are all part of slippery slope that will lead us all into communism.  It's that whole "freedom as an individual" versus "responsibility to the community" debate that we have been discussing for months. 

Would this be helfpul? https://sojo.net/articles/bible-says-wear-mask-Christians-church-coronavirus?fbclid=IwAR1ElcwFHIu0pEWNiLTZ2ZmPZlJtOhz_HstwquaMNv43bkZKOEECPn5saZo

Or this? This one is a letter discussing why he (Episcopal Bishop) is requiring masks at church - based on both making church as welcoming a place as possible even for the vulnerable and on loving one's neighbor. https://cfdiocese.org/on-requiring-face-protectors-love-of-neighbor-or-partisan-divide/

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

You did not answer my question: what "other options" were you referring to that you suggest for the high risk people?

I have no problem with you going to stores or choosing to eat in restaurants. My problem is with your statement that at-risk people have "other options". Maybe I am overlooking what those are. 

Other options?  Safer masking, vaccination, choosing a different job.  I don't know about your location, but where I live there are "help wanted" signs at just about every business.  Many of them not as public-facing as dine-in restaurant and and grocery store jobs.

I do think it's good to support businesses throughout the pandemic.  Again, the science says eating at restaurants is safe.  But again.  I'm not here to argue you about how I use our Covid budget.  Not sure why you keep keep engaging me.

(Right now I'm having some problem why eyes so I'm not sure if I'm making typing errors ....)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

Would this be helfpul? https://sojo.net/articles/bible-says-wear-mask-Christians-church-coronavirus?fbclid=IwAR1ElcwFHIu0pEWNiLTZ2ZmPZlJtOhz_HstwquaMNv43bkZKOEECPn5saZo

Or this? This one is a letter discussing why he (Episcopal Bishop) is requiring masks at church - based on both making church as welcoming a place as possible even for the vulnerable and on loving one's neighbor. https://cfdiocese.org/on-requiring-face-protectors-love-of-neighbor-or-partisan-divide/

Thank you. One thing I find interesting in all of this is that concurrent with the lack of faith/trust/confidence in governmental authority has come a lack of those things with church authority. Again, another thread, but our church elders recommended masks based on discussions with local medical professionals and the growing case numbers here. Masking was still at only about 20% the second week after the announcement.  When I remarked about it to an elder he said that people don't believe masks work.  My thought is, but it is more than that--they also don't respect the elders enough to do it anyway.  Okay, enough digressing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

This is the kind of bullshit OpEd piece that really ticks me off. This is the headline: "The Downsides of Masking Young Students Are Real: The educational cost of face coverings is far better established than the benefits of mandates." The first paragraph repeats this: "The potential educational harms of mandatory-masking policies are much more firmly established, at least at this point, than their possible benefits in stopping the spread of COVID-19 in schools."

So where is all this clear, incontrovertible data that "firmly establishes" the harms of masking in schools? This is the ONE study he cites in support of this statement: Labor market returns to an early childhood stimulation intervention in Jamaica. This study reports "substantial effects on the earnings of participants in a randomized intervention conducted in 1986-1987 that gave psychosocial stimulation to growth-stunted Jamaican toddlers. The intervention consisted of weekly visits from community health workers over a 2-year period that taught parenting skills and encouraged mothers and children to interact in ways that develop cognitive and socioemotional skills."

Oh, ok, well that totally proves that making kids wear masks in schools is far worse than kids getting sick, whole classes quarantined, teachers dying, etc.!

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

1&2, 2-3 months after kids are able to be vaccinated? Probably. That’s when my sense of responsibility to others is likely going to run out.
 

I might keep masking when surrounded by lots of strangers, but as an overall good practice I’ve come to appreciate, not specifically a Covid thing. People are gross.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

1&2, 2-3 months after kids are able to be vaccinated? Probably. That’s when my sense of responsibility to others is likely going to run out.
 

I might keep masking when surrounded by lots of strangers, but as an overall good practice I’ve come to appreciate, not specifically a Covid thing. People are gross.

That last sentence made me think of this shirt. https://amzn.to/3zUD0Iz

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

No, no, yes. I did so even last summer when local numbers werepretty good, because I see it as modeling and supporting parents who wanted their unvaccinated kids to continue masking (the same reason I required masking for under 12 in my studio last summer, even though the CDC guidelines at the time indicated that it would have been safe to not mask). And now we have an indoor mask mandate again, so definitely yes. 

Once everyone can be vaccinated, if case numbers are reasonable and r <1, I'll stop masking indoors, but for now, I'm sticking with it. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, SKL said:

Other options?  Safer masking, vaccination, choosing a different job.  I don't know about your location, but where I live there are "help wanted" signs at just about every business.  Many of them not as public-facing as dine-in restaurant and and grocery store jobs.

I do think it's good to support businesses throughout the pandemic.  Again, the science says eating at restaurants is safe.  But again.  I'm not here to argue you about how I use our Covid budget.  Not sure why you keep keep engaging me.

(Right now I'm having some problem why eyes so I'm not sure if I'm making typing errors ....)

It is bc you are not in the Covid Circle of Trust

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

For me the answers were different before Delta.  But here goes my shot at now?

1. Yes, if we masked and there was ventilation and at least 12 feet from anyone facing me and singing or speaking. Our church has a lounge for masking and social distanced while watching a video stream. That is another option.  I bounce around in what I do.  Up until last weekend we really needed for no one to get Covid in order to get kids off to college (including to Canada.)  We took fewer "risks." (Except dh who works at the church and uses a Happy Mask except when preaching.)

2. Not at 15%.  I did when our area was 0.5% this summer, though. We are now at around 3% and I am not eating inside.  I might if getting Covid weren't so disruptive to the whole family's lives.

I am on the side of trusting that the vaccine is providing protection that allows the risk to be close to what my family risks in general life.  If our area were surging, I would be more careful, as I am when the flu is surging.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

So, maybe this has been discussed, but in light of the more recent comments (and because this thread is now 64 pages--gah!), question:

1. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you be comfortable going into a worship setting of 200 plus people where only 20% were masked?

2. If your whole family was vaxxed, would you eat inside at a restaurant if the local positivity was around 15%?

3.  If your whole family was vaxxed, would you still mask in public settings like the grocery? What would inform that decision? Would it be based on local case numbers or hospitalizations?  

 

Nope, nope, yes. I'm still mostly getting things delivered, but if I need to go to a store I go early in the week, try to get there before they open, and put on a HappyMask before I get out of the car. My county has one of the highest vax rates and lowest case rates in the state, but I'm almost 5 months post vaccination and I just really don't want to catch this thing.

Edited by Corraleno
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, freesia said:

For me the answers were different before Delta.  But here goes my shot at now?

1. Yes, if we masked and there was ventilation and at least 12 feet from anyone facing me and singing or speaking. Our church has a lounge for masking and social distanced while watching a video stream. That is another option.  I bounce around in what I do.  Up until last weekend we really needed for no one to get Covid in order to get kids off to college (including to Canada.)  We took fewer "risks." (Except dh who works at the church and uses a Happy Mask except when preaching.)

2. Not at 15%.  I did when our area was 0.5% this summer, though. We are now at around 3% and I am not eating inside.  I might if getting Covid weren't so disruptive to the whole family's lives.

I am on the side of trusting that the vaccine is providing protection that allows the risk to be close to what my family risks in general life.  If our area were surging, I would be more careful, as I am when the flu is surging.

I forgot #3 I did not mask in grocery stores while vaccinated in June-July.  Now I do because why not?  It's easy to do and an extra layer of protection.  As I said in the above, we were also trying to avoid Covid because of college and camps.

And since someone mentioned R0--our county rate is 0.83, so that does inform some of what I decided.  If I live right now like I am in Florida or Georgia, then if it gets like that here it will be a long long time.  People around me are generally masked and mostly vaccinated. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really stressed today. Hope it's okay putting this here - it's about pandemic fatigue, I think.

I'm back at work several days each week at the university where I'm an administrator.  Everyone is masked and a very high proportion are vaccinated.  I'm feeling okay in the office.

But I seem to have reached the end of my tether anyway. The pandemic-induced administrative challenges just got on top of me today. I asked for help,  and the senior people whom I involved responded well to my reserved but pointed emails. My colleagues and husband were sympathetic. It's all fine. But I've not been sleeping and I'm really stressed.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 27
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...