Deleted - thanks for all the help!

[Kassia]

deleted  

Thanks so much for all the wonderful responses! 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Kassia

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

 

 

Aww.  So sorry.  I am the wrong person to answer, because I would give anything to have my son home again. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Scarlett

[Kassia]

deleted

Edited September 15, 2020 by Kassia

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Kassia said:

 

@Scarlett can you delete the quote?  I plan on deleting. 

I'm sorry about your son.  Maybe this is too sensitive to post about.  😞  I realize many people would give anything to see their kids for various reasons.  

Done.  Sorry, I had a dumb moment.  

[ktgrok]

Can you walk the middle ground and enforce better boundaries while he's staying there? Explain that you and your husband need some couple time, just the two of you? Don't think of it as being mean, but as a chance to teach him about healthy relationships so in the future, if/when he is part of a couple, he knows that couple time is important?

[Mama Geek]

Could you and dh take a couple of overnight vacations while son is home?

 

[Rosie_0801]

6 minutes ago, Kassia said:

Maybe I really am a terrible mom for feeling this way.

 

Hardly.

Either speak to your son and explain what you need and why you need it, or explain it to your husband and let him have a father-son chat. Either way, you have as much right to attention as any.

[Kassia]

Just now, Mama Geek said:

Could you and dh take a couple of overnight vacations while son is home?

 

 

We would, but with Covid now, I don't know.  Pre-covid, we had lots of travel plans for when dd went to college.  We'd like to visit our sons sometime - haven't seen where either of them live yet because I had a medical condition for a couple of years where traveling was dangerous. 

[ktgrok]

You don't have to say, "go away! you are getting in the way!" 

You can say, we LOVE having you around, and having family time. But your father is my husband, we are a couple, and it is important for couples to spend time just the two of them. That's part of having a healthy relationship. With you here, we have a ton of family time, but no couple time....can you brainstorm with me how to figure it out so there can be a balance?

[Kassia]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

You don't have to say, "go away! you are getting in the way!" 

You can say, we LOVE having you around, and having family time. But your father is my husband, we are a couple, and it is important for couples to spend time just the two of them. That's part of having a healthy relationship. With you here, we have a ton of family time, but no couple time....can you brainstorm with me how to figure it out so there can be a balance?

 

See, that's what I need - I lack tact!  😛

[PeterPan]

If he wants to be near you, he can get his own apartment and move his stuff. There is ZERO reason why he needs to live with you now when he was living fine independently elsewhere. He should resume living independently and just be in your city if he likes to be there. To be in your house is completely unnecessary.

Do it. It's not heartless. It's right and it let's him keep growing up. 

[PeterPan]

You said you lack tact, but I'm not sure tact is necessary. He's b&w and will miss it if you beat around the bush. You can just SAY it and say it so he doesn't miss it. "Wow, I see you really like being near us. Have you picked out a new apartment so you can move here?" Done.

PS. Cruising resumes in November out of Miami and Port Canaveral. Sure take a vacation. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by PeterPan

[Ottakee]

It is absolutely fine to say that.  Parents are important too.   Either set and me clear guidelines while he is still with you....or take a road trip and say it was great seeing you.....now dad and I need alone time 

[Bambam]

I think I'd sit down as a family and try to brainstorm a way for both things to happen - but that's me. I'd imagine my son was lonely where he had been living (working from home, no activities, no restaurant dining, no gathering with friends, etc). So, I'd want some couple time/time without son, but I'd also want to help him. 
So, for me, I'd outline my needs and desires and figure out how to try to get there. 
Maybe he could go for a walk/bike ride/walk the dog for 1 hour every weekday after supper? Would that be enough time for you? He has to find something else to do on Saturday from 9-3? He must retire to his own room by 10 pm every night? 

I think it is okay if you just want no one else in the house and say that. But I'd make sure my dh would back me up. 

 

[JustEm]

My perspective, as someone who has parents who always made it clear that their home would always be a home for us to come home to no questions asked and who now has my parents living with me, so I have adapted the mentality that any of my 6 siblings could come stay with us if need be.  I think before asking him to leave you should have a talk with him and set clear boundaries about you and your dh needing time to yourselves.  In a normal year, I would completely understand anyone wanting their space back without anyone else living there.  But this year has been an emotional roller coaster for the vast majority of people and I'd be hesitant to even let a family member know I wanted them to go home because of the potential that them being with me is what is keeping them from extreme depression or something.

 

[Kassia]

15 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

If he wants to be near you, he can get his own apartment and move his stuff. There is ZERO reason why he needs to live with you now when he was living fine independently elsewhere. He should resume living independently and just be in your city if he likes to be there. To be in your house is completely unnecessary.

 

14 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

PS. Cruising resumes in November out of Miami and Port Canaveral. Sure take a vacation. 

 

He has to keep his apartment since eventually his company will want people back in the office, but we have no idea when that will be.  Otherwise, I think he'd be happy to give up his apartment and move in with us.  I'm sure he was lonely before and I think it's comforting for him to be home with us (usually).  

Cruising sounds wonderful, but we really need to be available for dd if campus shuts down and she'll be coming home in November no matter what.  Plus I'm definitely wary of cruising for now!  But boy is that tempting - any all inclusive trip would be heaven right now. 

 

9 minutes ago, Bambam said:

I'd imagine my son was lonely where he had been living 

I think it is okay if you just want no one else in the house and say that. But I'd make sure my dh would back me up. 

 

 

He was definitely lonely.  And I would never think of talking to him about this without discussing it with DH (right now we talk on FB messenger for privacy).  

[Kassia]

10 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

But this year has been an emotional roller coaster for the vast majority of people and I'd be hesitant to even let a family member know I wanted them to go home because of the potential that them being with me is what is keeping them from extreme depression or something.

 

 

I hadn't considered that.  Thank you.

[Guest]

That’s a tough one. I think, for myself, I personally would not instruct him to move out. I want my home to be perceived by my kids as a soft place to land no matter what and I just don’t think that would be conveyed doing what you intend. 

When I was a young adult, I would have perceived that as a rejection. As it is, I perceived other things my parents did as a rejection. There’s a reason why I latched onto my MIL as a figure for guidance, rather than my own mother. I got acceptance and a willingness to help from that quarter that I didn’t get from my own folks. I want to be like my MIL/FIL in this way and not like my parents. 

Dh and I recently carved out a Saturday morning walk (sometimes fishing, too) at a nearby park as a more or less regular commitment. Could you do something like that? Have a standing “date” time without ds? 

FWIW, I do think the monopolizing of conversations is an ASD trait. I know I can tend towards doing that and I have to consciously remind myself to shut the hell up and listen, lol. 

[Bambam]

18 minutes ago, Kassia said:

  And I would never think of talking to him about this without discussing it with DH (right now we talk on FB messenger for privacy).  

This is BRILLIANT! I never thought about using FB messenger to talk privately when the kids are home! We've been going in the master bathroom closet and shutting the bedroom door and the bathroom door!!!! Oh, thank you for saying that!

Feeling stupid, sorry to derail!

[Kassia]

deleted

Edited September 15, 2020 by Kassia

[Kassia]

Just now, Bambam said:

This is BRILLIANT! I never thought about using FB messenger to talk privately when the kids are home! We've been going in the master bathroom closet and shutting the bedroom door and the bathroom door!!!! Oh, thank you for saying that!
 

 

Just be very careful to make sure you're messaging the right person!  But, yes, it works great to chat privately.  

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that it is going to look extremely rejecting to your son if you send him off but everyone else comes home for long visits shortly after that.  He is going to feel singled out, I think, and in a bad way.

So I would suggest thinking through what specific changes you need to feel like you have that essential couple time.

Is it a kid free period before dinner every night?  Is it a weekly date night?  Or twice a week?  Is it an afternoon together with no one else around?  Once you have figured that out, then you agree on it and present it to your son as something that you are implementing as a couple, and make it stick when the other kids are home as well.  This will be good for you all.

Also, regarding the conversation, your husband needs to take the lead in directing conversation to you as well as around you, and I think you should have a private talk about that and give him some examples of how to do it.  If the son does not follow that lead or interrupts you, you and your husband might need to specifically address that.  Was this an issue before with DS?  If so, how did you handle it?  Do you think it will be the same when the other kids are here, or maybe more bearable because you won’t be the odd person out?  I’d give that some serious thought—whether this was always the pattern but less annoying before or whether it’s something new, and whether you have addressed it in the past.

 

[Acadie]

I don't think it's terrible or unreasonable or anything else. There are things you and dh need to do together, like spend some time as a couple, and perhaps there are things ds will need to do at his place before the holidays. Even if it's somewhat contrived, I'd probably mull over what he might need or want to do in his area, and talk over the possibility of short interval where he goes back to take care of things, check on the apartment, pick something up, see a friend or whatever, and what timing makes sense with everyone's schedule. Even just a week or two might make a difference.

[Pippen]

31 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

If he wants to be near you, he can get his own apartment and move his stuff. There is ZERO reason why he needs to live with you now when he was living fine independently elsewhere. He should resume living independently and just be in your city if he likes to be there. To be in your house is completely unnecessary.

Do it. It's not heartless. It's right and it let's him keep growing up. 

This is not a normal time. I have three young adult children and this is a lonely and very boring time for them. 

Our doors are open for anyone to come home, even if it's just for a change of scenery. But I agree about boundaries for the op.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Pippen said:

This is not a normal time. I have three young adult children and this is a lonely and very boring time for them. 

Our doors are open for anyone to come home, even if it's just for a change of scenery. But I agree about boundaries for the op.

Amen. I have two YAs and I thank the heavens they both have a special person in their lives. 

[Kassia]

deleted

  

Edited September 15, 2020 by Kassia

[Jaybee]

In these times, I wouldn't tell him to move out, but I would do as others have said and set up some boundaries so that you and dh have time alone. I'd just straightforwardly tell him something along the lines of, "As a married couple, we need time to connect with each other just the two of us. After dinner each night, we will ____________ (go to our room, go for a walk, go on a date), and you will be on your own for some time to do things you'd like to do. When you and your siblings were little, we had time together after you went to bed. Now that you are an adult, we need to excuse ourselves so that we can have that time. Thanks for understanding that we need that." I think if you deal with it straight on like that, and make sure you get that time, you will be less likely to get aggravated and irritated at him for always taking over your time together.

[Kassia]

18 hours ago, Quill said:

Amen. I have two YAs and I thank the heavens they both have a special person in their lives. 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Kassia

[Jaybee]

P.S. And needing that quiet time alone with your husband is not at all being a terrible/worst mom. Not at all.

[Pippen]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

Amen. I have two YAs and I thank the heavens they both have a special person in their lives. 

All of mine were in transition when this hit. Two started new jobs right before lockdown and the other right after graduation in May. All are thankful for jobs, but there's no sense of long term security. High school and college friends have scattered. all over the country. There's no normal socialization with co-workers..heck, one hasn't even met co-workers in person. No opportunities to meet new friends or prospective significant others. I'm glad they're safe and employed, but it really stinks for young people right now. 

[PeterPan]

I agree about the issue of loneliness and mental health. However many employers are telling people they'll be telecommuting till next summer. There's no reason for him to keep that apartment another 9 months if he wants to be closer. They might even let him telecommute permanently. Might be worth sorting through. And maybe if he did move back he'd like to be in a community or some set up that helped him get more social. Does he like animals? If he's talking with you so much, maybe his social needs aren't being met?

[J-rap]

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable asking my adult children to go away (I mean, unless they were really doing something bad), but otherwise, I want my children to know they can always live with us, that we always have a safe place for them.

That said, there are boundaries, and I think it's fine to be honest with your ds and explain, in general ways, the situation.  (You don't have to go into details.)  I'd say something like, "We love having you here and are glad you decided to come home.  Dad and I have been under a lot of stress these past few years (or however you want to say it) and feel we need some time together alone.  We plan to spend 4 to 6 pm alone with each other every day for our late afternoon couple time (or 7 to 9pm -- whatever).  Please don't take it personally!"

Also, perhaps your dh needs to set some boundaries with your ds.   (You said he takes up all of dh's free time.)  I think it's okay to lovingly explain boundaries.  That way relationships stay healthy and people get the time they need to do what they want/need to do.

Lastly, I've known people recently who have taken a couple weeks to go to stay in an airbnb, and have felt safe doing so.  If it's a full apartment or cabin and has its own kitchen, etc., maybe you and your dh could consider that.  

[happi duck]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but it doesn't sound like you are straightforward with your ds.  Are you straightforward with other adults in your life?

If he was a friend who needed a place to stay during a pandemic I think you would have already ironed out things like this.

Just my two cents but I think it would be kinder to let him stay but be straightforward.

[rebcoola]

Not a terrible mom but seems like a frank conversation is all you really need.  

[DawnM]

I am going to be honest, I wouldn't/couldn't do it.   My 22 year old Aspie came back home and quit college, and although I would love to see him thriving on his own, I would never make him do something he didn't want to do.    We have always told our kids our door is always open to them, provided they abide by some pretty simple rules.   I can't imagine my parents ever doing that to me either, I would have been crushed and it would have affected our relationship.   

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, Kassia said:

 

Oh, I should have made it clear - he will be here for the holiday season as well!  I don't even know if he plans on going home between now and Thanksgiving.  

Ok, but your DD will be here until next August.  That is a lot different.  I think that he will feel singled out and a bit rejected.

As far as the conversations, I choose for it to be that way.  Ds loves to debate and will bait me on topics (Aspie trait).  I just want peaceful conversations so I say as little as possible much of the time.  Plus he likes to talk about politics (too controversial and I'm not as knowledgeable as he is) and financial things (I'm totally ignorant on that topic), so I don't have anything to say. If anything, DH tries to rescue me from debates sometimes by taking over for me if I start getting cornered.  

 

Sounds like DS and DH need some time to themselves also.  When folks are in a group it is rude to leave anyone completely out.  I think your DH should turn the conversation to general topics most of the time when you all are together, on behalf of his wife and also so that DS will learn to be more polite and learn general conversation skills.  And that they should go off by themselves sometimes.  Man to man.  That's a good thing anyway.

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

I am going to be honest, I wouldn't/couldn't do it.   My 22 year old Aspie came back home and quit college, and although I would love to see him thriving on his own, I would never make him do something he didn't want to do.    We have always told our kids our door is always open to them, provided they abide by some pretty simple rules.   I can't imagine my parents ever doing that to me either, I would have been crushed and it would have affected our relationship.   

Yes, this. 

I would not tell my daughter to leave. I think that would be hurtful, even if I had the "right" to do it, YWIM? 

But you absolutely positively should have some alone time as a couple and there is nothing terrible about it. A kind but frank conversation is needed.

[hippiemamato3]

2 hours ago, Bambam said:

This is BRILLIANT! I never thought about using FB messenger to talk privately when the kids are home! We've been going in the master bathroom closet and shutting the bedroom door and the bathroom door!!!! Oh, thank you for saying that!

Feeling stupid, sorry to derail!

Haha! I swear, DH and I talk mostly via text or messenger. It's ridiculous. 

[hippiemamato3]

If your DD will be home soon for almost 9 months, I'm not sure you can tell your DS you don't want him here. That seems preferential and likely very hurtful. 

[WendyLady]

edited out some family stuff!

Can you go away for a weekend (or three) alone?  Can you and dh get away and leave ds home for a week? At least date night(s)?  I'm not sure what would have made things more manageable for me this spring - I think going away completely alone may have been my preference...

Edited September 15, 2020 by WendyLady

[Catwoman]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

I am going to be honest, I wouldn't/couldn't do it.   My 22 year old Aspie came back home and quit college, and although I would love to see him thriving on his own, I would never make him do something he didn't want to do.    We have always told our kids our door is always open to them, provided they abide by some pretty simple rules.   I can't imagine my parents ever doing that to me either, I would have been crushed and it would have affected our relationship.   

 

I feel the same way. And the stress and isolation  of the Covid situation makes it seem even more important for families to stick together and help keep each other from feeling alone and lonely. My parents always made it known that as long as they were alive, I had a home with them, no matter how old I was, and my dh’s family was the same way, so now we always tell our dh he can live at home for as long as he likes, and that even if he moves out, he can always come home. 

But Kassia,  I know from your posts that you are always a kind and caring person and that you are a great mom, so please don’t be too hard on yourself for having an occasional selfish thought. I can understand how this must be very frustrating for you and that you are probably feeling like there is no good solution. 

Does your son have any hobbies he could do on his own for a while in the evenings, so you and your dh could have some time alone? 

 Also, can’t your DH sometimes just tell your son that he wants to spend some time with you? He could say that he wants to spend some time with mom because it seems like you’re bored or something like that — sort of making it seem like your son is part of a plan for your dh to do something nice for you, like maybe watching movies or playing a game that you know won’t interest your son.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Catwoman

[Liz CA]

Book a weekend (or longer) trip somewhere. Surprise your dh and tell your ds you guys will be gone for a couple of days on a special vacation . This way you get couple time and he does not need to feel kicked out.

[mathnerd]

You and your DH should go on daily walks together without your son. If that is the only exercise he would get, make sure that your DH takes him for a walk at another time of the day - for e.g. if you and DH walk in the AM, let your DH take your DS out for a walk in the evening. Make a request to your son that you want the walk time with his father for private conversation about things concerning your personal matters. When a pandemic is raging, it is impossible for young people to socialize or go out. On top of that because he is an aspie, he might find this situation even more challenging. It is a good thing that he sought you out instead of struggling alone. Also, if your daughter comes home, she could keep him company and your DH will not be monopolized. It is OK to ask him for privacy and alone time and maybe you could delegate cooking dinner or washing dishes and such as chores and use that time to talk to your husband uninterrupted. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by mathnerd

[Kassia]

deleted

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Kassia

[Scarlett]

11 hours ago, Kassia said:

 

@Scarlett can you delete the quote?  I plan on deleting. 

I'm sorry about your son.  Maybe this is too sensitive to post about.  😞  I realize many people would give anything to see their kids for various reasons.  Maybe I really am a terrible mom for feeling this way.

No, you aren’t a terrible mom.  Young adults are a challenge for sure.  I know I complained about my son when he was home.....and I do look forward to dss19 being out on his own.  But as others pointed out a Pandemic is probably not the time to force the issue. I am glad your son has a safe place to be. 

[katilac]

I'm just here because I can never pass up a thread title that's been changed to "Deleted." 

[Amy in NH]

I didn't get to read your post before it was deleted, but got the gist from other responses.  Our three kids who are still at home - two over age-18 and one minor-teen, are asked to leave the house on a regular schedule for a few hours twice per week so that dh and I can have the house to ourselves for some necessary alone-time.  They are all welcome to live here as long as they'd like, so long as they respect that this is a legitimate need for us as a couple.  I'd say your college-age kid is not so young and naive that you cannot have a frank discussion with him.

[Kassia]

Thank you, @Amy in NH.  He's an Aspie who is actually older than college-age, but doesn't drive and we don't live in walking distance of anywhere he can go, so getting him out of the house other than walking on our street isn't an option.  There are no sidewalks around here and leaving our street would mean going on a busy road that isn't safe for walking.