wuhan - coronavirus

[cintinative]

On 11/18/2020 at 4:22 PM, JanOH said:

Also Franklin County (Columbus), and Montgomery County (Dayton).  There may be more that I missed.

Hamilton County (Cincinnati) joined today. I assume the other not mentioned was Cuyahoga (Cleveland).

[cintinative]

On 11/18/2020 at 5:28 PM, Corraleno said:

Moderna had 11 severe cases, all in the placebo group, and Pfizer had 10, of which 9 were in the placebo group.

 

Can you help me find more information on this? Because I have transverse myelitis I was of course interested to hear that one of the group that received the Pfizer (?) vaccine came down with TM, but I never heard if it was a placebo recipient or a vaccine recipient.  Thank you.

[Bambam]

11 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Lots of chatter on talk radio about the Danish mask study that "proves masks don't prevent Covid." I also heard a doctor (MD) on the radio talking about the bootcamp study with the Marines but I have no idea what his point was on that one.

Also hearing questions from people pointing out low mortality percentages & "why should I care" if they get it or not (younger, healthy people). These are people who got tired very early on of all the media coverage (like 85% of the Hive who avoid this thread) and thus don't keep up on much besides the headlines from their favorite media source. I'm still trying to educate those around me.

If anyone can help me explain the Danish mask study results, I'd appreciate it. I know the researchers say "this was an important, well-designed study" but it sure didn't look well-designed to me! Or maybe it didn't seem well-executed.

I can't find this on her blog, but Your Local Epidemiologist has this post on her FB page about the Danish Mask study. I'm not sure if copying/pasting is acceptable, so hopefully this link will work. 

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=206293624351888&id=101805971467321

Edited November 20, 2020 by Bambam

[bookbard]

I'll put my hand up and say I think masks are a long way down the list compared with staying at home and contact tracing. Masks alone aren't enough, look at the poor health workers! I agree with the 'swiss cheese' model - they help, but alone? Not enough.

I really hope the USA gets a vaccine to people soon, because it is clear behavioural change won't be happening. I'm sure people in the field will be able to get great data about population-level health change from this year, and will be able to research what worked, what didn't, and why, because this isn't going to be the last epidemic. 

[Corraleno]

23 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Lots of chatter on talk radio about the Danish mask study that "proves masks don't prevent Covid." I also heard a doctor (MD) on the radio talking about the bootcamp study with the Marines but I have no idea what his point was on that one.

Also hearing questions from people pointing out low mortality percentages & "why should I care" if they get it or not (younger, healthy people). These are people who got tired very early on of all the media coverage (like 85% of the Hive who avoid this thread) and thus don't keep up on much besides the headlines from their favorite media source. I'm still trying to educate those around me.

If anyone can help me explain the Danish mask study results, I'd appreciate it. I know the researchers say "this was an important, well-designed study" but it sure didn't look well-designed to me! Or maybe it didn't seem well-executed.

The primary value of masking is preventing transmission from people who are asymptomatic but contagious, not protecting the wearer from the virus. A well-fitted, multi-layer mask does seem to provide some protection for the wearer, but paper surgical masks, like the ones used in the Danish study, really only prevent the wearer from expelling virus particles, not inhaling them. And only 46% of participants adhered to the masking protocol anyway! So the Danish results are totally irrelevant to the questions of whether masks protect other people, and whether population-wide masking reduces community spread.

 

[Corraleno]

46 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Can you help me find more information on this? Because I have transverse myelitis I was of course interested to hear that one of the group that received the Pfizer (?) vaccine came down with TM, but I never heard if it was a placebo recipient or a vaccine recipient.  Thank you.

I'm sorry, I don't have any more detailed info on the Pfizer data, but I think it was actually Astra Zeneca that had the case of TM in their trial, and they have not released their Phase 3 data as far as I know.  

[cintinative]

42 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I'm sorry, I don't have any more detailed info on the Pfizer data, but I think it was actually Astra Zeneca that had the case of TM in their trial, and they have not released their Phase 3 data as far as I know.  

Thank you! I think you are right. I have been hearing the other names so often I got muddled on it. 
 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

Can you help me find more information on this? Because I have transverse myelitis I was of course interested to hear that one of the group that received the Pfizer (?) vaccine came down with TM, but I never heard if it was a placebo recipient or a vaccine recipient.  Thank you.

I know Corellano already said this but it was the Astra Zeneca trial and it was confirmed to be a participant who received the vaccine not the control arm.  They also had a case pop up early that they deemed to be not related to the trial and ended up being multiple sclerosis I think.  However I think the two events raises the level of concern a bit for me personally.  

[Ausmumof3]

I updated regarding local situation here in the other thread.

US just had another record day of 192,000 cases.  7 day Rolling average is at around 165,000.  Total just passed 12,000,000.  I’m glad to see so many on this forum are staying home, and being so careful.

[Corraleno]

5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I updated regarding local situation here in the other thread.

US just had another record day of 192,000 cases.  7 day Rolling average is at around 165,000.  Total just passed 12,000,000.  I’m glad to see so many on this forum are staying home, and being so careful.

And more than 2000 deaths today. 

I don't think most Americans have any clue just how quickly things are escalating, and how bad things are going to get very very soon. There are literally tens of thousands of Americans making Christmas plans right now who have no idea that their seat at Christmas dinner is going to be empty. 😥

[Pen]

4 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Lots of chatter on talk radio about the Danish mask study that "proves masks don't prevent Covid." I also heard a doctor (MD) on the radio talking about the bootcamp study with the Marines but I have no idea what his point was on that one.

Also hearing questions from people pointing out low mortality percentages & "why should I care" if they get it or not (younger, healthy people). These are people who got tired very early on of all the media coverage (like 85% of the Hive who avoid this thread) and thus don't keep up on much besides the headlines from their favorite media source. I'm still trying to educate those around me.

If anyone can help me explain the Danish mask study results, I'd appreciate it. I know the researchers say "this was an important, well-designed study" but it sure didn't look well-designed to me! Or maybe it didn't seem well-executed.

about the marines - extremely interesting to me for implications regarding other situations also:

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/coronavirus/2020/11/11/study-of-marine-recruits-finds-fever-symptom-screening-misses-many-coronavirus-cases/

 

[lewelma]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

And more than 2000 deaths today. 

I don't think most Americans have any clue just how quickly things are escalating, and how bad things are going to get very very soon. There are literally tens of thousands of Americans making Christmas plans right now who have no idea that their seat at Christmas dinner is going to be empty. 😥

KY has closed down all schools until January, so my immuno-compromised teacher sister is finally off the hook. She is so relieved. 

My other sister is in 2 weeks self-isolation with her family before travelling to visit my parents who have seen *no one* since March. 

My ds enters a NZ military quarantine facility next Sunday for 2 weeks. We can't wait to have him home! Summer BBQs here we come!

[Laura Corin]

Early transmission is greatest

BBC News - Covid-19 carriers 'most infectious earlier on' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55006313

[Ausmumof3]

6 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Lots of chatter on talk radio about the Danish mask study that "proves masks don't prevent Covid." I also heard a doctor (MD) on the radio talking about the bootcamp study with the Marines but I have no idea what his point was on that one.

Also hearing questions from people pointing out low mortality percentages & "why should I care" if they get it or not (younger, healthy people). These are people who got tired very early on of all the media coverage (like 85% of the Hive who avoid this thread) and thus don't keep up on much besides the headlines from their favorite media source. I'm still trying to educate those around me.

If anyone can help me explain the Danish mask study results, I'd appreciate it. I know the researchers say "this was an important, well-designed study" but it sure didn't look well-designed to me! Or maybe it didn't seem well-executed.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/vinay-prasad/89778
 

I haven’t had much time to look in depth but this might be helpful.  Seems like the study is an indicator that mask may not protect the wearer much but still doesn’t say anything about whether it protects everyone else in the room.

[Pen]

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

https://healthy-skeptic.com/2020/11/18/flash-on-the-danish-mask-study/

Danish mask study

I know people who got CV19 despite both the presymptomatic shedder and the person who caught it wearing masks.

and the opposite

 

differences in the time of exposure and probably skill level of mask wearers 

[Ausmumof3]

A recent study has found tocilizumab is helpful in severe covid

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-55002339?__twitter_impression=true
 

There’s some more info here though I don’t think it’s published yet

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

This is discussion from the actual mask study being discussed.  I wonder how you could design a study to effectively measure whether the mast wearing reduces transmission in the community.  
 

“In this community-based, randomized controlled trial conducted in a setting where mask wearing was uncommon and was not among other recommended public health measures related to COVID-19, a recommendation to wear a surgical mask when outside the home among others did not reduce, at conventional levels of statistical significance, incident SARS-CoV-2 infection compared with no mask recommendation. We designed the study to detect a reduction in infection rate from 2% to 1%. Although no statistically significant difference in SARS-CoV-2 incidence was observed, the 95% CIs are compatible with a possible 46% reduction to 23% increase in infection among mask wearers. These findings do offer evidence about the degree of protection mask wearers can anticipate in a setting where others are not wearing masks and where other public health measures, including social distancing, are in effect. The findings, however, should not be used to conclude that a recommendation for everyone to wear masks in the community would not be effective in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections, because the trial did not test the role of masks in source control of SARS-CoV-2 infection. During the study period, authorities did not recommend face mask use outside hospital settings and mask use was rare in community settings (22). This means that study participants' exposure was overwhelmingly to persons not wearing masks.”

 

 

[cintinative]

9 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I know Corellano already said this but it was the Astra Zeneca trial and it was confirmed to be a participant who received the vaccine not the control arm.  They also had a case pop up early that they deemed to be not related to the trial and ended up being multiple sclerosis I think.  However I think the two events raises the level of concern a bit for me personally.  

Thank you for this. Yes, I am concerned. If my TM flares again, it might be very ugly (and/or become MS).  

[Wheres Toto]

8 hours ago, Pen said:

about the marines - extremely interesting to me for implications regarding other situations also:

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/coronavirus/2020/11/11/study-of-marine-recruits-finds-fever-symptom-screening-misses-many-coronavirus-cases/

 

I think we knew a while back that fever wasn't a really good indicator for infection.   I never bothered doing temp screenings at my place because it seemed more "theater" than actual use. 

[RootAnn]

14 minutes ago, DorothyNJ said:

I think we knew a while back that fever wasn't a really good indicator for infection.   I never bothered doing temp screenings at my place because it seemed more "theater" than actual use. 

I wondered if pointing this out would be helpful. I wish they could eventually replace the temperature theater with quick saliva tests or the cough screening tool. (It looks like AI has as low as an 83% specificity so it will give some false positives, but I think if used as a screening tool for work or doctor's offices, this would be acceptable. I.e., if you get flagged, it would be good to isolate and/or get tested.)

Edited November 20, 2020 by RootAnn
Added specificity note

[Laura Corin]

BBC News - Covid: Infection rates levelling off in England and Scotland

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55016893

[Guest]

The big benefit of temp screening, IMO, is that it means that we have someone stationed at the single entry who can also make sure people have masks on and give them disposable ones if they don’t. 

 

[Pen]

Screen shots of CDC deaths tables (USA) from start of pandemic and most recent and April-May when it was really high itself and also raising total death counts - I can’t control order of the images, but dates show. 

 

Date of week  first column

Covid 19 deaths second column

 

Deaths from all causes third column

 

[Pen]

4 hours ago, DorothyNJ said:

I think we knew a while back that fever wasn't a really good indicator for infection.   I never bothered doing temp screenings at my place because it seemed more "theater" than actual use. 

 

In case people dismiss all there is in the Marines situation as only being about fever screening,  there was a good bit more done by the marines than just testing fever as a screening tool. 

 

fever thoughts - not meant to be several connected paragraphs:

-Yes. We know from airports etc that fever catches few if even a single case of CV19.

 

-Trained sniffer Dogs are much much better!

 

-And it is very easy to hide a fever these days with a Tylenol

 

-When I was a young child there seemed to be  much more caution on international travel or attending school while sick than in recent times.  

 

 - I now know a couple of people where fever was only symptom of CV19 illness - they otherwise felt fine and would have had no idea they were sick other than a fever scan.  So it will miss most cases. But might catch a few CV19 as well as perhaps a few other illnesses.  They did not seem to give anyone in their immediate households the illness so maybe would not have given anyone anywhere the illness, so maybe knowing they had it was not especially useful.

 

- What would  be best IMO would be if we had a way to identify people who shed lots of virus, and are likely to be big spreaders or superspreaders. 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Pen

[Bambam]

Much of this is mumbo-jumbo to me, but it looks promising from the abstract. 
Maybe someone could summarize it in everyday language? 
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31542-7

[Jean in Newcastle]

5 hours ago, dmmetler said:

The big benefit of temp screening, IMO, is that it means that we have someone stationed at the single entry who can also make sure people have masks on and give them disposable ones if they don’t. 

 

Pointing a thermometer at my head for a couple of seconds doesn’t hurt me or bother me. I don’t know that it catches most cases but these same medical providers are asking screening questions, distancing  and are requiring properly worn masks so the temperature thing is just one tiny part. 

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Pointing a thermometer at my head for a couple of seconds doesn’t hurt me or bother me. I don’t know that it catches most cases but these same medical providers are asking screening questions, distancing  and are requiring properly worn masks so the temperature thing is just one tiny part. 

Taking temperatures probably catches very little, but it is non-invasive and is extremely low cost.  so, if it catches any at all it might be useful, and there isn't much downside to doing it.  They screen using temperatures at DS's workplace--which involves running outdoors.  When it was 100+ degrees in the Texas sun this summer, they were having trouble that they were getting elevated temps until the employees rested for a bit out of the sun.  

[AmandaVT]

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Taking temperatures probably catches very little, but it is non-invasive and is extremely low cost.  so, if it catches any at all it might be useful, and there isn't much downside to doing it.  They screen using temperatures at DS's workplace--which involves running outdoors.  When it was 100+ degrees in the Texas sun this summer, they were having trouble that they were getting elevated temps until the employees rested for a bit out of the sun.  

We're starting to run into this but with kids coming out of hot cars and wearing nice warm fuzzy hats. I had a kid come in at a 104.8 the other morning when I was on temp duty at school. Looked totally fine - clear eyed, reported no symptoms. Asked if the heat was on in her car - "oh yeah and the seat warmer - it was great!" Had her take her hat off and wait a few minutes, 98.0 on the next reading. I've had a number like that already. On the flip side, the kids that walk to school are arriving w/ a 72 degree reading. 

The questions are definitely more useful and the kids are very honest. Our school policy is we send them home if they have any cold symptoms. They are to call the pediatrician and follow their guidance. And we've had to send kids home during drop off - thankfully it's been received well by parents so far and they've followed protocols and followed up with the pedi.

[Ausmumof3]

People in Melbourne suburb Altona are being urged to get tested after virus fragments were discovered in wastewater 

[BlsdMama]

4 hours ago, Bambam said:

Much of this is mumbo-jumbo to me, but it looks promising from the abstract. 
Maybe someone could summarize it in everyday language? 
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31542-7

The researchers are very excited.  It's been known that cytokine storms have been causing death, likely the primary cause of death.  Essentially, if my understanding is correct, the cells exude cytokines as a result of an immunity defense mechanism.  Well, when the body has an extreme immune response, it "storms" the body with an overabundance cytokines and the body reacts with an inflammatory response.  This overwhelms and begins cellular death.

However, "Furthermore, treating with neutralizing antibodies against TNF-α and IFN-γ protected mice from mortality during SARS-CoV-2 infection, sepsis, hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis, and cytokine shock"

Essentially, they experimented with a combination of antibodies intended to neutralized the effects (the TNF and IFN are the cytokines if I understand) and they were able to do so successfully. 

They're saying the blocked the cytokines with antibodies.

I have to admit, to some degree, this scares me to no end.  I have this little random antibody that is a unicorn (glycine receptor antibody) and while most people carry it benignly, in some people it ends up (oopsie!) attacking the nervous system and causing something called Stiff Person Syndrome and generally a specific variant called PERM.  I'll be the first to say that obviously all antibodies are different and obviously many are good and protect us.  But, that to say, that ANY solution is going to require human trials for safety and efficacy - thus the requirement for three trials.  As a person who has been hopeful for trials in the past and the future (hooray for Nurown Brainstorm tech) they can be timely and SO many fail in the second trial and don't make it to the broader trial.  I hope this works but right now the vaccine will be the better hope, kwim? 

[Ausmumof3]

7 hours ago, Pen said:

Screen shots of CDC deaths tables (USA) from start of pandemic and most recent and April-May when it was really high itself and also raising total death counts - I can’t control order of the images, but dates show. 

 

Date of week  first column

Covid 19 deaths second column

 

Deaths from all causes third column

 

Is there a bit of a reporting delay with CDC because those most recent stats don’t line up with worldometer.  Assuming they are supposed to be deaths for the week.  Using the worldometer graphs deaths for week ending 14th November were 7,998

Edited November 21, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

Grr just wrote out a long response detailing what’s happening here and the forum ate it.  In short 1 more case. Tonnes of testing.  No spread outside known contacts yet.  

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Is there a bit of a reporting delay with CDC because those most recent stats don’t line up with worldometer.  Assuming they are supposed to be deaths for the week.  Using the worldometer graphs deaths for week ending 14th November were 7,998

I would assume delay for most recent reported week. I am sure we aren’t having less than half total expected mortality rate.

But we also don’t seem to be having hugely excessive total mortality rate, nor is there a an extreme exponential rise in deaths from CV19 as I was watching in horror at the early part of the pandemic.   Both the CV19 deaths and the total mortality seem to be going up and down, but relatively stable up and down and total mortality appears to be in typical type range.  Or at least not in massive excess considering being in worst pandemic since the ~ 1918 Great Influenza.  
 

As it was shaping up in spring it looked to me like there could easily be 100,000/day in US at this stage if exponential deaths had continued climbing. There is not. 

[kbutton]

https://sanduskyregister.com/news/289234/lawmakers-aim-for-dewine/

Quote

The Ohio Legislature spurned the medical community and aligned itself with anti-vaccine groups Thursday, sending to Gov. Mike DeWine legislation that scuttles the state health department’s quarantine powers.

In a party line vote, House Republicans passed Senate Bill 311, which prohibits the Ohio Department of Health from issuing statewide and regional quarantine or isolation orders to people who haven’t been infected or exposed to disease. The Senate passed the bill in September.

It would also allow lawmakers to pass a resolution to rescind ODH orders like the statewide mask mandate.

It looks likely to be veto-proof.  

[popmom]

Does anyone here know... Are mRNA vaccines the only vaccines in the works? Is anyone out there working on an old school attenuated or inactivated vaccine? 

[Pen]

25 minutes ago, popmom said:

Does anyone here know... Are mRNA vaccines the only vaccines in the works? Is anyone out there working on an old school attenuated or inactivated vaccine? 

not the only ones!

moderna and Pfizer are mRNA

 

A bunch of others are based on using Adenovirus modifications. 
 

China and Russia used old school iirc.

 

there are tables of many of the vaccines showing type, what stage they are at etc.  

I don’t have a link currently, maybe someone else does.

 

[popmom]

7 minutes ago, Pen said:

not the only ones!

moderna and Pfizer are mRNA

 

A bunch of others are based on using Adenovirus modifications. 
 

China and Russia used old school iirc.

 

there are tables of many of the vaccines showing type, 

 

Good to know. There are a couple of good articles in the economist this week, but they only talked about the Pfizer and Moderna ones. I couldn't find any info on any other types being developed. It would be good to have options in case the mRNA vaccine falls short of expectations. My understanding is that this is the first mRNA vaccine ever to be approved for use--for any disease? Is that correct? The technology sounds very promising--and not just for COVID19. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by popmom

[Pen]

30 minutes ago, popmom said:

Good to know. There are a couple of good articles in the economist this week, but they only talked about the Pfizer and Moderna ones. I couldn't find any info on any other types being developed. It would be good to have options in case the mRNA vaccine falls short of expectations. My understanding is that this is the first mRNA vaccine ever to be approved for use--for any disease? Is that correct? The technology sounds very promising--and not just for COVID19. 

they may have been used for cancer already

it would be first as vaccine afaik

[Pen]

They are extremely promising! and some of the potential problems like cold storage may once solved be much better than some of the current things used as preservatives and adjuvants in regular old school vaccines 

 

there were some other really interesting approaches like tiny sugar needle delivery system for another type — haven’t heard anything about that recently 

[Corraleno]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Is there a bit of a reporting delay with CDC because those most recent stats don’t line up with worldometer.  Assuming they are supposed to be deaths for the week.  Using the worldometer graphs deaths for week ending 14th November were 7,998

Yes, the CDC death counts generally run behind Worldometer — their count for the week of Nov 7th (in that list) is also still incomplete. I don't know if it's a function of the new system where all reports have to go through the private company before it goes to CDC, or if they have to wait for official death certificates, or a combo of the two, or something else, but it always takes a while for them to catch up. I'm trying to find that graph that shows a dotted line specifying "incomplete data" for the last 2 weeks, but I can't remember where it was. 😕 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Corraleno

[Terabith]

I'm trying to scroll backwards and can't find it.  Is colchicine the gout drug that was showing promise?  

[Corraleno]

11 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm trying to scroll backwards and can't find it.  Is colchicine the gout drug that was showing promise?  

yes

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87245

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, popmom said:

Does anyone here know... Are mRNA vaccines the only vaccines in the works? Is anyone out there working on an old school attenuated or inactivated vaccine? 

Astra Zeneca is chimpanzee adenovirus.

the one here in Adelaide is old fashioned attenuated virus.

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

I would assume delay for most recent reported week. I am sure we aren’t having less than half total expected mortality rate.

But we also don’t seem to be having hugely excessive total mortality rate, nor is there a an extreme exponential rise in deaths from CV19 as I was watching in horror at the early part of the pandemic.   Both the CV19 deaths and the total mortality seem to be going up and down, but relatively stable up and down and total mortality appears to be in typical type range.  Or at least not in massive excess considering being in worst pandemic since the ~ 1918 Great Influenza.  
 

As it was shaping up in spring it looked to me like there could easily be 100,000/day in US at this stage if exponential deaths had continued climbing. There is not. 

I don’t think it’s heading for 100,000 per day but it’s not time to be complacent either.

this is what the worldometer graph is like right now.  Cases are still increasing so there’s no reason to think deaths will start decreasing any time soon.  An unlike the April wave which was localised meaning health care could move healthcare workers around it’s more wide spread meaning they are having trouble calling people in.   I am glad it’s not going to 100,000 per day though. 

 

[Ausmumof3]

From BNO

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I don’t think it’s heading for 100,000 per day but it’s not time to be complacent either.

this is what the worldometer graph is like right now.  Cases are still increasing so there’s no reason to think deaths will start decreasing any time soon.  An unlike the April wave which was localised meaning health care could move healthcare workers around it’s more wide spread meaning they are having trouble calling people in.

 

 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/international-news-pandemics-virus-outbreak-public-health-poland-2c4315553109ed6f91c0507bd38fc3a4
 

 

What does “being complacent” mean to you in this regard?

 

My kids school has been closed since spring. I haven’t seen and may never see my parents alive again. I certainly have not been anywhere without a mask since well before mandates. I expect to have solo holidays.  ETA - not complaining, just stating facts. 

 

 What would you like me to do ? 
 

post only gloom and doom ? 😉

 

 

afaik USA still has doctors helping in Europe (I knew one who was, but he’s back in US now and perhaps they all are) and even some US National Guard with medical training were helping in Europe.  (Link above)

 

 

 

I guess We probably need them back.  
 

Better to have more of our medical trained NG home helping save lives in the first place and maybe we won’t need as many troops to do mortuary support and burials. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

From BNO

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Pen

[Ausmumof3]

15 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/international-news-pandemics-virus-outbreak-public-health-poland-2c4315553109ed6f91c0507bd38fc3a4
 

 

What does “being complacent” mean to you in this regard?

 

My kids school has been closed since spring. I haven’t seen and may never see my parents alive again. I certainly have not been anywhere without a mask since well before mandates. I expect to have solo holidays.  ETA - not complaining, just stating facts. 

 

 What would you like me to do ? 
 

post only gloom and doom ? 😉

 

 

afaik USA still has doctors helping in Europe (I knew one who was, but he’s back in US now and perhaps they all are) and even some US National Guard with medical training were helping in Europe.  (Link above)

 

 

 

I guess We probably need them back.  
 

Better to have more of our medical trained NG home helping save lives in the first place and maybe we won’t need as many troops to do mortuary support and burials. 
 

 

 

Sorry I wasn’t meaning you (or anyone personally on this forum) was being complacent.  I have seen surveys suggesting 1/3 of people plan to travel for thanksgiving.   That seems maybe a little complacent.  I don’t know what the individual plans for safety are maybe they have everything in place but it’s such a lot of people moving around.  I wish you could all safely see your loved ones.  It’s hard to imagine going so long without seeing your parents.  
 

heck we have been complacent here, that’s partly why we’re in sudden lockdown. Because all the contacts have so many contacts because life is basically normal here.  

[Corraleno]

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/11/20/sciadv.abd5393.1?utm_campaign=SciMag

"These results demonstrate that effective screening depends largely on frequency of testing and the speed of reporting, and is only marginally improved by high test sensitivity. We therefore conclude that screening should prioritize accessibility, frequency, and sample-to-answer time; analytical limits of detection should be secondary."

[ktgrok]

On 11/19/2020 at 8:06 PM, RootAnn said:

Lots of chatter on talk radio about the Danish mask study that "proves masks don't prevent Covid."

That study was basically pointless. This is what I posted on Facebook about it:

TLDR: they didn't study the thing that masks are meant to do - protect others - and the majority of the people in the mask group didn't wear their masks.

If you are hearing about the Danish study "proving" masks don't work, keep in mind that the MAJORITY of people in the mask group DIDN'T ACTUALLY WEAR A MASK! They were asked to, but over half said they didn't wear it! And that's the ones that actually admitted it - how many others didn't admit it! There also were not enough people in the study to show statistical significance. Finally, and most importantly, the main point of a mask is to protect OTHERS - that's what the surgical masks they were wearing are designed to do - and they didn't measure that at all!

[RootAnn]

It is officially Be Your Own Contact Tracer in Nebraska now:

Nebraska announced an 8 day backlog in contact tracing due the surge in positive cases. Tracers have been told to try to contact infected people twice instead of five times before closing the case. They are also no longer going to contact named closed contacts. That will be up to the infected people to do themselves. Officials hope to be through the current backlog in a week (and call through the holidays).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/siouxlandnews.com/amp/newsletter-daily/watch-live-at-130-gov-ricketts-gives-update-on-coronavirus-response-in-nebraska