wuhan - coronavirus

[prairiewindmomma]

Washington Post latest: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/18/coronavirus-latest-news/

It sounds like tourism and recreation crossings are what is being shut down.  Citizens should be able to repatriate.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Actually, while I am sad that hospitals are already running out of supplies etc., I am impressed at the resilience that some are showing in finding other solutions to the problem.  That's what we all need:  resilience.  Yes, it's a tough time.  And will be for awhile - not only for acute problems but the fallout and the slow rebuilding afterwards.  But the people who are going to make it - no matter their age - are the ones who learn to count their blessings, to reach out to others (while maintaining social distance - we are after all living in a time of technology), who learn to think of the greater good and not only their own situation.  Even now in our country, we have so much more than some people have ever had.  As Pen said, we can do this. 

[Spryte]

Practical question for those in an area with community spread:  if you are still eating fresh produce, can you tell me how you handle it?  Do you do any special washing, etc?  
 

We are having groceries delivered and washing all items before they come in the house.  High risk peeps, and an elder living here, trying to be overly cautious.  I want produce, but need some direction on how to keep it safe.

[Carrie12345]

:::deep breath:::
Please keep foster and at-risk kids in your thoughts.  I’ve learned today that at least one area has canceled parent visitations for a full month (for now). Another area is canceling all in-home visits for caseworkers.  I get it, but these things will have major negative impacts.

2 days until court.  Now by telephone.

[bolt.]

50 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

Campland has very good attorneys, who are used to advocating with the city council and mayor in a protracted legal battle over development issues. I know the owner and will send him an email, but I am sure this is on his radar. He is a very savvy businessman and has been able to rally the government and people here when needed for his purposes. But yeah, I am going to send some emails today to my legislative reps to ensure that people understand what could happen.

Re the grandparents, we will make sure they have everything they need for the journey. Thankfully, they are active and in good health, and financially secure. We just need to get them home safe, so I am going to lay out an infection control procedure for them.     

You really can just leave your RV where it is, no matter what anyone says.

You are allowed to use passive resistance to keep your home safe and stationary. So are all of your neighbors.

I guarantee they don't have the resources to tow you, arrest you, or even harass you very much. They've got bigger fish to fry. So the campground may get "shut down" -- what does that mean really? The land is still there. Stay put.

(This kind of situation even justifies (to me) a white lie around "maybe" that your RV needs some repairs and actually won't go anywhere without a tow?)

[Pawz4me]

FWIW, about how our local medical community is reacting --

DH had an oncologist visit scheduled for this afternoon. He started not feeling well last Wednesday. We felt sure it was a mild case of the flu (even though he had the vaccine) or some other viral thing. He had the typical fever/aches/fatigue symptoms. No cough or respiratory symptoms at all, no sore throat. He hasn't had a fever in about 36 hours, so we thought it would okay to go ahead with his appointment. At the cancer center there were three nurses and a security guard immediately inside the front door. They were screening everyone--checking temperature and asking health questions. Because DH told them he'd been sick they had both of us put on masks. After about 15 minutes, many questions, and a phone call back to DH's doctor it was decided to NOT let him in, and instead to send him to our PA for a flu test, just in case. We were fine with that and thanked them for keeping everybody safe.

We called our PA's office (which is owned by the same health system as the oncology group and cancer center) and they said come right on over. They told us not to come inside, but to call when we got there and they'd give us more instructions. They had us come in a back door. A medical assistant was waiting with more masks, but we used the ones we had from the cancer center so they wouldn't be wasted. His flu test was negative and the PA felt it was just a random virus that he was, in fact, pretty much over. Nothing to worry about. She told us that they're cancelling all regular check ups for people who aren't on any medications so that they have more time to see people like DH promptly.

So . . . I felt awful that we caused a bit of a fuss, but I was very reassured that they seemed to be handling things so well, and in such an organized way.

[mlktwins]

6 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Practical question for those in an area with community spread:  if you are still eating fresh produce, can you tell me how you handle it?  Do you do any special washing, etc?  
 

We are having groceries delivered and washing all items before they come in the house.  High risk peeps, and an elder living here, trying to be overly cautious.  I want produce, but need some direction on how to keep it safe.

Spryte, I haven't done the delivery thing yet and wasn't going to order any for this reason.  But..I think I'm going to try and stick to things already contained.  Strawberries and blueberries,  grapes are usually bagged, bagged apples, potatoes, onions.  Lettuce should be covered and spinach and other mixed salads come in bags and plastic containers.  Carrots can come in bags.  Whole watermelons when the time comes (not cut up until they've sat for awhile and then washed).  Same with cantaloupe.  Oranges come bagged.  I'm going to try and stay away from the loose stuff.  

[SeaConquest]

12 minutes ago, bolt. said:

You really can just leave your RV where it is, no matter what anyone says.

You are allowed to use passive resistance to keep your home safe and stationary. So are all of your neighbors.

I guarantee they don't have the resources to tow you, arrest you, or even harass you very much. They've got bigger fish to fry. So the campground may get "shut down" -- what does that mean really? The land is still there. Stay put.

(This kind of situation even justifies (to me) a white lie around "maybe" that your RV needs some repairs and actually won't go anywhere without a tow?)

 

Yes, we have the same situation with our boat. We talked to the marina manager where we have our boat moored (since we have a boat business, we are friends with most of the marina managers in SD, but this guy has been a good friend of our family for years) and he estimated that at least 75% of the people in the marina will probably just stop paying. Normally, the government would come and seize the vessels for nonpayment, but he doubts that the government will have the resources to do that at the moment. If the grandparents head back to Canada, our boat will now be free, so we can always shelter there, assuming that they don't close down marinas as well. All of this is just inconceivable on some level. I keep thinking I am just going to wake up from a bad dream.

[Bootsie]

24 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

That is not at all what is happening, though. In WWII, people at home had jobs. Soon a huge number of people will be out of jobs, and that's not sustainable to 18 months. It's not sustainable for children to not be in school for that long, either. What is now being expected of people can in no way be compared to what was expected of people even during wartime. 

Yes, in previous times, people were asked to come together as a community and support each other.  Now, many people are feeling isolated and told not to be together.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, Bootsie said:

Yes, in previous times, people were asked to come together as a community and support each other.  Now, many people are feeling isolated and told not to be together.  

No, we are still being asked to come together as a community. It isn’t that hard to understand how to do that while not congregating together. My neighbors on Nextdoor are delivering groceries and tp to the elderly, are sharing information on where to find needed resources etc. 

[DoraBora]

55 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Actually, while I am sad that hospitals are already running out of supplies etc., I am impressed at the resilience that some are showing in finding other solutions to the problem.  That's what we all need:  resilience.  Yes, it's a tough time.  And will be for awhile - not only for acute problems but the fallout and the slow rebuilding afterwards.  But the people who are going to make it - no matter their age - are the ones who learn to count their blessings, to reach out to others (while maintaining social distance - we are after all living in a time of technology), who learn to think of the greater good and not only their own situation.  Even now in our country, we have so much more than some people have ever had.  As Pen said, we can do this. 

This.  Thank you, Jean (and Pen).

[DoraBora]

30 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

Spryte, I haven't done the delivery thing yet and wasn't going to order any for this reason.  But..I think I'm going to try and stick to things already contained.  Strawberries and blueberries,  grapes are usually bagged, bagged apples, potatoes, onions.  Lettuce should be covered and spinach and other mixed salads come in bags and plastic containers.  Carrots can come in bags.  Whole watermelons when the time comes (not cut up until they've sat for awhile and then washed).  Same with cantaloupe.  Oranges come bagged.  I'm going to try and stay away from the loose stuff.  

I have a microbiologist friend who used to work for our county health department.  She washes all of her produce in water and dish soap to remove as much pesticide as possible, and also to remove contaminates.  If soap and water works on hands and dishes, I don't know why it wouldn't work on fresh spinach.

[sassenach]

1 hour ago, SeaConquest said:

 

My DH's parents are being forced to head home to Quebec. The travel insurance will no longer cover them here in San Diego. They drove here, so it isn't really safe to travel cross-country, but they are going to throw a mattress in the backseat of the car and drive as fast as they can, stopping as little as possible. I'm giving them both N95s and hand sanitizer and we are hoping that they make it back ok. They were going to shelter in place on our boat, but without health insurance, that just can't happen. So, they are risking it and going home.

As for us, we are concerned that our RV park may shut down in the next few days and we will have no place to put our home. Several counties in CA have closed nonessential businesses and I assume that San Diego will do so as well within the next few days. Obviously, a campground is a nonessential business from most people's perspective, but many of us are full-time stationary here, and the city has parking ordinances, so we have nowhere to go if all public and private campgrounds are shutdown. Our plan at the moment is to stay with wealthy clients/friends who have RV hookups on their property, assuming they still allow us to leave town and don't shut down the roads because these properties are obviously not in the middle of the city of San Diego. No way to keep our business running, even with a small business loan from the feds, if they shut down nonessential businesses, so I don't understand how they intend to bail people out if they force us all to shut down.

Many of our neighbors are freaking out because they obviously don't have wealthy client friends, and have no clue where they are going to go with their RVs. There are a lot of full-time families living in RVs around the country, and nobody knows where they are going to go.

In the bay area order, hotels are categorized under residences. As they have clarified things more, it definitely seems that all clarifications have erred on the side of NOT kicking people out of whatever they are using as home base.

No roads have been shut down. No one is getting pulled over.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

Even before this started, I was reading about people who live through wars and plagues and thinking about how fragile our way of life is... how complacent we become when things are stable for decades. 

So in some sense, I'm mentally ready for this. It's made it easier for me. 

 

I think it also might be harder for people who have been more in denial and more in No Big Deal groups rather than watching what was happening and thinking more should have been being shut down a month ago! 

I’m sort of more at a “Thank God, finally” stage.  And far more worried about how late we are in the epidemic’s progress and how close already to medical system overload, and severe economic stresses.   Not so much concerned that kids’ summer activities are getting messed up.   Not SATs, nor even applying for work as previously planned.   

And again I may seem hard hearted, but I think people are probably in fairly good circumstances if SAT tests and special activities  are  high on worry lists.  

In one of These threads people were angry with them for being critical of their choice to travel internationally during pandemic when due to my health problems I cannot travel anyway, like I this had no business commenting.

To my mind, that’s like a quadriplegic cautioning about running on an icy swimming pool edge and being told the Quadriplegic can’t run so has no business pointing out the folly of running around on an icy pool Edge.  to my mind even if that’s not how the quadriplegic person was injured they still have a good bit of btdt understanding.  And I feel sort of like that now.

A lot of people here and even more irl who are still relatively “No Big Deal” about it,  and sad or worse resentful about limitations, to me seem like they are really “not getting it” still.

I think a lot of people are very much missing how much better some admittedly significant limitations on daily life are compared to long term severe or significant health impairment.    Which does seem a possible outcome in addition to death and full recovery.  And how much better limitations or changes to the patterns of daily life are compared to a lot of other possible (or likely) results if such changes aren’t made. 

And it is very, very hard with teens. Admittedly. They are, most of them, just getting fairly independent, wanting to bond with peers, not at a wanting to stay home and play a game with mom stage. 

 

 

 

[PrincessMommy]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

There's a big difference between not going on multiple vacations and keeping the worldwide economy more or less completely shut down and everyone in isolation for 1.5-2 years.  Honestly, the thought makes me cry.  My kids need friends.  

I agree.  Even in WWII they went to church and work.   I cannot fathom what would happen to the economy and our gov'ts if they ask everyone to self-quarantine for 18months.  

[Bootsie]

14 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

No, we are still being asked to come together as a community. It isn’t that hard to understand how to do that while not congregating together. My neighbors on Nextdoor are delivering groceries and tp to the elderly, are sharing information on where to find needed resources etc. 

I think it is easier for some to feel a sense of community without physical presence than it is for others.  I am one who does not need a lot of physical presence, but there are others in my family who really do need a sense of physical presence.  A touch or a hug is very important to them.  In fact, talking to someone through a window or having someone drop something at their door is very difficult/uncomfortable for them.

[Terabith]

I was paying attention a month ago.  And two months ago.  And yes, I get that it's a very privileged position to be worried about my kid's mental health.  But, I can't DO anything.  And my kid was so depressed and anxious that we had to pull her from school because of suicidal thoughts...and she was just starting to claw her way back from that.  And she pretty much lost all her friends when we pulled her from school.  She was taking community college classes.  Getting out of the house was by far the best thing for her mental health.  We were REALLY hoping that she could go to this little private school where she has peers next year.  But, if we're looking at spending the next 18-24 months in the house, that's out.  She has no friends to connect with online.  And she's getting more and more depressed at home again.  Both my kids wound up in our bed last night.  They both NEED outlets and friends and to be doing something constructive.  And there's nothing they can do but sit at home and watch Netflix.  Which...if it's for two weeks or even a month, fine.  Whatever.  We can make that sacrifice.  

And yes, if we have to stay home for the next 18 months for the good of society, we'll do it.  

But I'm not sure my kids will be alive at the end of it. 

[Pen]

49 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Practical question for those in an area with community spread:  if you are still eating fresh produce, can you tell me how you handle it?  Do you do any special washing, etc?  
 

We are having groceries delivered and washing all items before they come in the house.  High risk peeps, and an elder living here, trying to be overly cautious.  I want produce, but need some direction on how to keep it safe.

 

I used soap and water on things strong enough to handle that.  Apple, celery...

 

I have also been looking for more specifics of exactly what to do for high risk people, but I am not sure it is known for certain 

if too delicate for soapy water:

 

 I think I will be using a little bit of hydrogen peroxide or drops of iodine in wash water.

A little Chlorine bleach in water is supposed to work, on virus generally, even if no specific CV tests with vegetables, but I don’t tolerate chlorine bleach. 

 

I was unsure so far about the very delicate things and ended up briefly cooking anything I was unsure about.  (Turned some salad greens into lightly braised greens, for example. Or by using 0 minutes steam time in Instant Pot, or adding at last minute cooking to a soup...) 

[Terabith]

A friend posted this:  

WHY IS THIS A BIGGER DEAL THAN H1 N1?

It has to do with RNA and an extremely "slippery" ability to mutate.
We are deal with a virus for which we have absolutely no immunity, and it mutates very quickly...

Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to share this to others who don’t understand...

It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics.

Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up the virus are recognized by the human immune system. This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a virus, or by getting a flu shot.

Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations). Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu). But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer from animals to humans... then it’s a problem, Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.

Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human to human... once that happens..we have a new contagion phase. And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..

H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly as the Spanish flu. It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too.

Fast forward.

Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to people. At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the ability to jump from human to human. Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”

This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we would all have some natural or acquired immunity). Took off like a rocket. And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no known medicines for it.

And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus, changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to human lungs..

That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any other type of influenza.... this one is slippery AF. And it’s a lung eater...And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we now have two strains to deal with, strain s, and strain L....which makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.

We really have no tools in our shed, with this. History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places has helped in the past pandemics. Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.

Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him, till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much better now). Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation...

And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder... but this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will). Who is to say, what it will do next.

Be smart folks... acting like you’re unafraid is so not sexy right now.

#flattenthecurve. Stay home folks... and share this to those that just are not catching on.

 

 

 

 

[Terabith]

Just now, square_25 said:

 

I remember reading about your oldest girl's struggles. And I'm sure this is super hard for her :-(. 

She doesn't have any friends from her old public school she could connect with, by any chance? What happened to those kids? 

They all totally ditched her when she left school.  Apparently they weren't very good friends.  Even the person she's supposed to be dating has ghosted her.  

[JennyD]

Israel update: 433 cases.  No deaths, although 2 people are very sick.  This was a big jump in numbers, likely attributable to more testing.

The lockdown is still 'voluntary' but the press is running repeated stories about the government's deliberations over making it mandatory and the general assumption is that that where we are headed.  Israel has closed its borders entirely; previously foreigners could still enter if they could prove they had a place to quarantine, but no more.  The Health Ministry is using the newly approved surveillance tracking program to notify people near someone who was diagnosed and require them to quarantine.  All haredi (ultra-orthodox) schools are being shut down and last night the cops broke up a big haredi wedding (illegal both because of the size and because the father of the groom was supposed to be in quarantine) and arrested both fathers, the caterer and a wedding planner.  

The economy is cratering and tens of thousands of Israelis are filing for unemployment benefits.  In my circle, some folks are working and being paid, others are being put on unpaid leave, and others are either losing their jobs or having their hours (and pay) sharply reduced.

And if all this weren't enough, the Speaker of the Assembly (Knesset) shut down the parliament.  The official reason was coronavirus -- there are several reps in quarantine -- but his decision also coincides with failed negotiations between his party and the opposition over, among other things, replacing him as speaker.  This will go to the Supreme Court.  

So far the schools have been sending some work home and my high schooler has some online classes, but today the teacher's union and the government reached an agreement  that -- if i understand correctly, which is by no means a given -- will end the online education but extend the school year.  

My little family is doing ok, staying inside, doing school/work and trying not to drive each other crazy.  The regulations make an explicit exception for families taking children to the park, so when it finally stopped raining this afternoon we went out to play soccer and basketball.  There was almost nobody else there.  I want to keep going for my morning run but DH is opposed (because he thinks it is breaking the rules, not because he thinks it's dangerous) so I am trying to find some decent online aerobics classes.  I feel like we can manage like this pretty well for a while but if we are prohibited from taking the kids out at all it is going to be just miserable.  

On the bright side, Israel and the Palestinian Authority are cooperating much more than usual in order to deal with this virus, and  farmers are saying that there's more than enough food for everyone (the problem is actually a surplus since restaurants are shut).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by JennyD

[Terabith]

4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Oh, what a bummer :-(. I'm sorry. 

See if she can find any online communities to hang out in, seriously. I didn't have a pandemic to live through as a teen, but I had a relatively unhappy home life (my mom is really difficult and narcissistic and my stepdad didn't like me at all), and I definitely escaped via the Internet. That and by dating fellow dorky math camp people, lol. 

She definitely has an online community.  She hangs out on the internet a lot.  And, it's mostly positive.  But it's not quite the same.  

Weirdly, my autistic kid is doing well socially.  She's found a bunch of folks that she clicks with.  Most of them are guys a few years older in her D&D group, but she also has some "school friends" that she hangs with at school (and occasionally talks to on the phone).  

[Pen]

Duolingo just sent a message to effect that it would be good to use this time to learn a language!

 

[The Governess]

Worldometers is reporting 475 deaths in Italy for March 18. At this rate, by tomorrow,  more people will have died in Italy than in China. 😢 

 

[Pen]

 

1 hour ago, kdsuomi said:

What is now being expected of people can in no way be compared to what was expected of people even during wartime. 

 

Depends who?

what “people”  I guess?

In WWII lots of people lost jobs, for example if they were Jewish or otherwise a wrong ethnic group, had to go into hiding, or worse.  

 

For WWII, probably overcrowding of air raid shelters and the Like were more often an issue with too much crowding and closeness to others and getting on each other’s nerves rather than “social distancing”.   Or being in a locked-down city  like Stalingrad because of weapons outside rather than because of quarantine.  And probably with much worse trouble than lack of Tp on the supermarket shelves.  Or even loss of a job right now. 

I rather tend to recall that many London young people were sent to country during war time and were out of school for considerable time—and no definitive end date at the start. But I may be wrong about that.  And possibly  other places too ???

 

 

 

But hey, let’s forget the analogy.

This virus is quite unprecedented in our lifetimes.  What will need to be done is also unprecedented. 

So if you wish to say that what is happening now is much worse than any thing else in the prior history of the world okay.  

And I still respond that we have to step up to the plate even if it has no past analogies and is worst thing ever.

 

We have to step up.

And we can do it.

 

[73349]

[details]

Edited October 2, 2020 by Carolina Wren

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

I was paying attention a month ago.  And two months ago.  And yes, I get that it's a very privileged position to be worried about my kid's mental health.  But, I can't DO anything.  And my kid was so depressed and anxious that we had to pull her from school because of suicidal thoughts...and she was just starting to claw her way back from that.  And she pretty much lost all her friends when we pulled her from school.  She was taking community college classes.  Getting out of the house was by far the best thing for her mental health.  We were REALLY hoping that she could go to this little private school where she has peers next year.  But, if we're looking at spending the next 18-24 months in the house, that's out.  She has no friends to connect with online.  And she's getting more and more depressed at home again.  Both my kids wound up in our bed last night.  They both NEED outlets and friends and to be doing something constructive.  And there's nothing they can do but sit at home and watch Netflix.  Which...if it's for two weeks or even a month, fine.  Whatever.  We can make that sacrifice.  

And yes, if we have to stay home for the next 18 months for the good of society, we'll do it.  

But I'm not sure my kids will be alive at the end of it. 

 

Probably depression is going to be a risk factor “comorbidity” in a different way but just as scary to face as pulmonary troubles.

😔

 

Maybe you and your girls could start online support communities related to this?  And what and how to take actions to help reduce risk? 

I know for myself it felt empowering to  look at my and family members’ health issues and start to *do* things that might help.  Actions rather than just worry.  

Whether that was vitamin D, making an herb tincture, or contacting my state sports and activities association. Etc. 

[mathnerd]

6 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Yes, but so much of the discovery of abuse happens by outside sources. Teachers, friends' parents, church members, co-workers, etc. This is now not going to happen, and they will be stuck inside with their abusers. 

I have an young adult friend who moved out of his abusive parents' house last year and was barely making it in our high COL area and now, he lost his job (manager in a non-essential business) and cannot pay his rent and is moving back in with his abusive parents because he has no other options. He has decided to lock himself into his bedroom and take online classes for as long as this lasts 😞 Victims being forced to move back in with known abusers due to this situation is one of those unexpected side-effects of this shelter-in-place order that was put out this week.

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

 

It will if their parents are disabled or dead.

It also almost certainly will affect some younger people and while percent may be low, as total cases rise the total number affected may rise.

plus we don’t know if it is sparing most of them with just asymptomatic or very mild illness permanently or whether in a some month or a year possibly the virus will come out of dormancy in their bodies and hit them much harder. 

We really don’t know.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-millennials/u-s-worried-coronavirus-could-hit-young-adults-white-house-official-idUSKBN21531S
 

[Pen]

8 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

Update on me: I've been coughing since the 9th (when there was no chance I could get a test in my area) and finally called my doctor today. I was directed to wait in my car. Staff in PPE came out to me. Through my open window, they handed me a mask, asked questions, took vitals, did a flu swab and a strep swab, and told me to wait. They processed those (both negative as I expected) and then came back and did a COVID19 swab. Results are not available for 4 days. They had me wait in the car again, as they needed to call around and find somewhere that was okay with a possible C19 patient walking in for a chest x-ray. I went up the road, answered more questions (informing them I got tested today expedited things), waited a bit alone in a waiting room (still masked) and then went back for the x-ray. That was quick. Then drove home and called the pharmacy about my inhaler--they have the rx but in all that time didn't manage to apply the sticker, so I will go after dinner (CVS has a drive-up window + I have a clean mask, generously dropped in the mailbox in a baggie by a neighbor when I put out a request online).

It's a good day to live in a suburban/inner ring area where I can get to everything in under a half hour and many things can be delivered to me.

Now if it's positive, my understanding is that DH and DS qualify for testing and are supposed to stay in another 14 days after I'm better. All the memes about the fun stuff you can do (start a garden! work on a craft! go for a hike!) are hard for me to appreciate right now.

Feeling very lucky that DH can work from home and that he works for a company that makes products that are popular right now. I wonder what's in stock for my sister who's a senior in high school and has accepted a college admissions offer for the fall. She also works in a very busy grocery store.

 

I’m sorry 😞.   I hope it turns out not to be C19, but am glad you are finally able to get tested. 

 

How sick are you feeling? 

 

[73349]

20 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

How sick are you feeling?

Cough/shortness of breath when I exert myself (like walking up the stairs) is the only thing that's bothering me. I had pneumonia 9 years ago (did not require hospitalization) and wanted to see my MD rather than leaving this unchecked. My temperature is hovering between 99.2-99.8. I mean, I've still been able to shower and dress every day, make basic meals (with some coughing), etc.

DS, who has had similar symptoms except no cough, is starting to feel better.

Edited March 18, 2020 by whitehawk

[RootAnn]

We do have it better than Anne Frank's family in terms of 'sheltering in place.'

[73349]

On 3/18/2020 at 6:29 PM, RootAnn said:

We do have it better than Anne Frank's family in terms of 'sheltering in place.'

Yes. ❤️

Edited October 2, 2020 by Carolina Wren

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, lovelearnandlive said:

Worldometers is reporting 475 deaths in Italy for March 18. At this rate, by tomorrow,  more people will have died in Italy than in China. 😢 

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/coronavirus-covid-19-italy-cases-death-toll-12553828

“ROME: Italy on Wednesday (Mar 18) reported 475 new deaths from the novel coronavirus, the highest one-day official toll of any nation since the first case was detected in China late last year.

Total deaths in Italy have reached 2,978, more than half of all the cases recorded outside China, while the number of infections stood at 35,713.

The previous record high of 368 deaths was also recorded in Italy, on Sunday.

The nation of 60 million has now recorded 34.2 percent of all the deaths officially attributed to COVID-19 across the world.

... The rates within Italy itself remained stable, with two-thirds of the deaths - 1,959 in all - reported in the northern Lombardy region around Milan, the Italian financial and fashion capital.

The neighbouring Emilia-Romagna region of Bologna has suffered a total of 458 fatalities, and Turin's Piedmont region has had 154 deaths.

Rome's Lazio region has a toll of 32 deaths and 724 infections.”

[Garga]

The USA now has more cases than S Korea.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[TCB]

I remember reading in January that we had 30 million masks stockpiled and that we would need 300 million and it is with disbelief that I hear that they are still saying that! What the heck! Why did we not use those 2 months to do something about it?! I don't know if my hospital has many or even any. I know they are trying to buy some but where will there be any? We have some PAPR units and we have surgical masks. How can this happen over here with the so called 'fantastic' healthcare that we have? Before you say anything I know that the system is only fantastic for some so that was sarcastic but honestly how can this be happening to this extent in any developed country?

[Arcadia]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/bill-gates-places-that-close-for-coronavirus-could-open-in-6-10-weeks.html

“5:30 pm: Bill Gates thinks places that 'shut down' for coronavirus could reopen in six to 10 weeks

Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates on Wednesday urged people to remain calm in the face of the coronavirus pandemic.

In an Ask Me Anything session on the discussion forum Reddit, Gates was asked about how long "this" will last.

"If a country does a good job with testing and 'shut down' then within 6-10 weeks they should see very few cases and be able to open back up," he responded. —Jordan Novet”

[RootAnn]

7 minutes ago, Garga said:

The USA now has more cases than S Korea.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

But we are still not testing much. I expect we have many more cases - 10 times perhaps - as what current tests show. The number will continue to go up for awhile if we continue to expand testing. Theoretically, knowing who has it and keeping those people isolated will help. Not knowing & continuing about our business as usual will just increase the spread faster.

Also, watch the death numbers. That and the number of serious/critical cases is what will be a lagging indicator of how badly the health system is being pushed beyond its limits. IMO.

[Arcadia]

🙂 https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-italian-hospital-3d-printed-breathing-valves-covid-19-patients-2020-3

• “A few days ago, staff at a hospital in Italy realized they were running out of valves for ventilators needed by those most severely affected by COVID-19.
• In less than 6 hours, a local startup managed to get to the hospital to manufacture the valves using 3D-printing. They are now in use among 10 patients.
• Italy is one of the countries most severely affected by the outbreak of the novel coronavirus, with a death toll of more than 2,500.
• The Italian Minister of Technological Innovation thanked the engineers for their work.”

[SeaConquest]

31 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

Cough/shortness of breath when I exert myself (like walking up the stairs) is the only thing that's bothering me. I had pneumonia 9 years ago (did not require hospitalization) and wanted to see my MD rather than leaving this unchecked. My temperature is hovering between 99.2-99.8. I mean, I've still been able to shower and dress every day, make basic meals (with some coughing), etc.

DS, who has had similar symptoms except no cough, is starting to feel better.

 

Sending love and prayers for a complete healing, Whitehawk.

[Pen]

17 minutes ago, TCB said:

I remember reading in January that we had 30 million masks stockpiled and that we would need 300 million and it is with disbelief that I hear that they are still saying that! What the heck! Why did we not use those 2 months to do something about it?! I don't know if my hospital has many or even any. I know they are trying to buy some but where will there be any? We have some PAPR units and we have surgical masks. How can this happen over here with the so called 'fantastic' healthcare that we have? Before you say anything I know that the system is only fantastic for some so that was sarcastic but honestly how can this be happening to this extent in any developed country?

 

Most of the time a surplus like that would be wasteful— and when should it have been gathered? 1920? 1960? Much might be old and outdated by time a pandemic came along.

Federal Gov has just asserted powers to do what needs to be done.  And I very much think that it will start to happen fairly fast now. 

Back in January if President had asserted such powers people would have been calling foul. And accusing him of tyranny. 

It required a lot of people feeling “do something.”  

My 2 cents. 😉

[Garga]

21 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

But we are still not testing much. I expect we have many more cases - 10 times perhaps - as what current tests show. The number will continue to go up for awhile if we continue to expand testing. Theoretically, knowing who has it and keeping those people isolated will help. Not knowing & continuing about our business as usual will just increase the spread faster.

Also, watch the death numbers. That and the number of serious/critical cases is what will be a lagging indicator of how badly the health system is being pushed beyond its limits. IMO.

You are right ,of course.

I have a number of friends who still don’t get it.  Being able to say we have more than S Korea gets them thinking a little bit.  I’m sure to remind them that we have done almost no testing, compared to non-stop testing in S Korea, so they can expect to see our cases go up my thousands upon thousands soon.

You guys all get it, I know, but if you have friends like mine, maybe sharing that bit of Info will help them see what’s going on.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Garga

[Pen]

9 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

🙂 https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-italian-hospital-3d-printed-breathing-valves-covid-19-patients-2020-3

• “A few days ago, staff at a hospital in Italy realized they were running out of valves for ventilators needed by those most severely affected by COVID-19.
• In less than 6 hours, a local startup managed to get to the hospital to manufacture the valves using 3D-printing. They are now in use among 10 patients.
• Italy is one of the countries most severely affected by the outbreak of the novel coronavirus, with a death toll of more than 2,500.
• The Italian Minister of Technological Innovation thanked the engineers for their work.”

 

That’s wonderful!!!

 

 

And it made me think 🤔 maybe

also a great sort of thing for STEM  kids to consider — what real things of need could they design?

 

[Arcadia]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/coronavirus-covid-19-china-medical-kits-europe-12553988

“BRUSSELS: China will send 2.2 million masks and 50,000 testing kits to the EU to cope with the spread of coronavirus, reciprocating similar assistance Europe provided Beijing when it was at the centre of the pandemic, the bloc's chief executive said on Wednesday (Mar 18).

The support from China is timely as the European Union has been unable to source face masks and protective goggles in a joint procurement effort launched earlier this month.

"China has not forgotten that in January when China was the centre of the virus outbreak the European Union helped," European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said in a video message on Twitter, recalling that the EU donated 50 tonnes of protective equipment that month.

"Today we are the centre of the coronavirus pandemic and we need protective equipment ourselves. We are ranking up our production ... but this needs several weeks and in the meantime we are grateful for support from China."

Von der Leyen said she had spoken to Chinese Premier Li Keqiang, who said China could ship 200,000 N95 masks, two million surgical masks and 50,000 testing kits to Europe immediately.

Before Li's pledge, the EU had received no offer from manufacturers after it launched a call to purchase masks and goggles, an internal EU document seen by Reuters showed.”

[prairiewindmomma]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Most of the time a surplus like that would be wasteful— and when should it have been gathered? 1920? 1960? Much might be old and outdated by time a pandemic came along.

Federal Gov has just asserted powers to do what needs to be done.  And I very much think that it will start to happen fairly fast now. 

Back in January if President had asserted such powers people would have been calling foul. And accusing him of tyranny. 

It required a lot of people feeling “do something.”  

My 2 cents. 😉

They didn't restock after H1N1 2009-2010. 😞 The shortages for respirators after that lasted 3 years. 

I had respirator shortages in 2009 and 2012 (two years I especially needed them and couldn't find them).

I pulled this from the Time archive: http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1899526,00.html

[Jean in Newcastle]

The good thing about my Plague Mask (respirator) is that enough of my face is hidden that you can’t see my embarrassment. 

[Pen]

39 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/bill-gates-places-that-close-for-coronavirus-could-open-in-6-10-weeks.html

“5:30 pm: Bill Gates thinks places that 'shut down' for coronavirus could reopen in six to 10 weeks

Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates on Wednesday urged people to remain calm in the face of the coronavirus pandemic.

In an Ask Me Anything session on the discussion forum Reddit, Gates was asked about how long "this" will last.

"If a country does a good job with testing and 'shut down' then within 6-10 weeks they should see very few cases and be able to open back up," he responded. —Jordan Novet”

 

I’m pretty sure it would have to be pretty global shut down at this point for a short shut down to work.  

If not pretty global there would be back glow from all over as soon as restrictive control in one area were lifted. 

But, yes, that a global shutdown at same time probably could  work relatively quickly. It would mean having an unprecedented new sort of Olympic cooperation.  

 

[Arcadia]

Ventilators manufacturing 
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/small-seattle-firm-working-around-clock-make-life-saving-ventilators-n1162951

“There are about a dozen manufacturers of the lifesaving device in the world, and only around five in the U.S. So Ventec Life Systems intends to do what it can to help cope with the worldwide shortage by ramping up production. Within the next 90 days, Kiple says, his company will move from its typical production of 150 machines a month to 1,000 per month. Kiple hopes to hit 2,000 per month later in the year.

When asked whether the company's supply chain can withstand such a massive increase, Kiple says that so far he's confident it will, noting that many of the parts are made here in the U.S. But the strains on the company and its employees will be real.

"It's going to be hard to increase manufacturing." Kiple said. "But we have it a lot easier than the medical professionals who are in the hospitals right now trying to triage COVID-19 patients. And we know that. We're not going to take a break because we know that the medical professionals aren't getting a break treating COVID-19. Sleep is optional right now."”

[Pen]

2 cases in my nearest significant city not one. The murky news had had it lumped together.

possibly now more accurate 

1 was a woman who died supposedly from heart attack, a CV test showed positive after her death.

1 is a man who is still alive

at least 1 , possibly both community spread

[bolt.]

1 hour ago, mathnerd said:

I have an young adult friend who moved out of his abusive parents' house last year and was barely making it in our high COL area and now, he lost his job (manager in a non-essential business) and cannot pay his rent and is moving back in with his abusive parents because he has no other options. He has decided to lock himself into his bedroom and take online classes for as long as this lasts 😞 Victims being forced to move back in with known abusers due to this situation is one of those unexpected side-effects of this shelter-in-place order that was put out this week.

Has he already moved out / abandoned his apartment?

I honestly think he can wait there (while not paying) until his landlord goes through the whole long-form eviction process and calls the police to enforce it. That will take weeks and weeks -- if it happens at all during the crisis. When this is all over, he can arrange to pay back-rent, or they can sue him, or whatever. What matters now is safety. He doesn't have to leave a safe place for a dangerous one just because someone asks him politely and it seems like the right thing to do. He can stay safe, and do 'the right thing' financially later: when 'the right thing' is possible without endangering his safety.