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gardenmom5

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12 hours ago, Terabith said:

The Imperial College team plugged infection and death rates from China/Korea/Italy into epidemic modeling software and ran a simulation: what happens if the US does absolutely nothing -- if we treat COVID-19 like the flu, go about our business, and let the virus take its course?
Here's what would happen: 80% of Americans would get the disease. 0.9% of them would die. Between 4 and 8 percent of all Americans over the age of 70 would die. 2.2 million Americans would die from the virus itself.
It gets worse. People with severe COVID-19 need to be put on ventilators. 50% of those on ventilators still die, but the other 50% live. But in an unmitigated epidemic, the need for ventilators would be 30 times the number available in the US. Nearly 100% of these patients die.
So the actual death toll from the virus would be closer to 4 million Americans -- in a span of 3 months. 8-15% of all Americans over 70 would die.
How many is 4 million people? It's more Americans than have died all at once from anything, ever. It's the population of Los Angeles. It's 4 times the number of Americans who died in the Civil War...on both sides combined. It's two-thirds as many people as died in the Holocaust.
Americans make up 4.4% of the world's population. If we extrapolate these numbers to the rest of the world (warning: MOE is high here), this gives us 90 million deaths globally from COVID-19, in 3-6 months. 15 Holocausts. 1.5 times as many people as died in all of World War II.
Now, of course countries won't stand by and do nothing. So the Imperial College team ran the numbers again, this time assuming a "mitigation" strategy: all symptomatic cases in the US in isolation. Families of those cases quarantined. All Americans over 70 social distancing.
This mitigation strategy is what you've seen a lot of people talking about when they say we should "flatten the curve": try to slow the spread of the disease to the people most likely to die from it, to avoid overwhelming hospitals.
And it does flatten the curve -- but not nearly enough. The death rate from the disease is cut in half, but it still kills 1.1 million Americans all by itself. The peak need for ventilators falls by two-thirds, but it still exceeds the number of ventilators in the US by 8 times.
That leaves the actual death toll in the US at right around 2 million deaths. The population of Houston. Two Civil Wars. One-third of the Holocaust. Globally, 45 million people die: 7.5 Holocausts, 3/4 of World War II. That's what happens if we rely on mitigation & common sense.
Finally, the Imperial College team ran the numbers again, assuming a "suppression" strategy: isolate symptomatic cases, quarantine their family members, social distancing for the whole population, all public gatherings/most workplaces shut down, schools and universities close.
Suppression works! The death rate in the US peaks 3 weeks from now at a few thousand deaths, then goes down. We hit but don't exceed the number of available ventilators. The nightmarish death tolls from the rest of the study disappear.
But here's the catch: if we EVER relax suppression before a vaccine is administered to the entire population, COVID-19 comes right back and kills millions of Americans in a few months, the same as before.
After the 1st suppression period ends in July, we could probably lift restrictions for a month, followed by 2 more months of suppression, in a repeating pattern without triggering an outbreak or overwhelming the ventilator supply. Staggering breaks by city could do a bit better.
But we simply cannot EVER allow the virus to spread throughout the entire population in the way other viruses do, because it is just too deadly. If lots of people we know end up getting COVID-19, it means millions of Americans are dying. It simply can't be allowed to happen.
How quickly will a vaccine be here? Last week three separate research teams announced they had developed vaccines. Yesterday, one of them (with FDA approval) injected its vaccine into a live person, without waiting for animal testing. That's an extreme measure, but necessary.
Now, though, they have to monitor the test subject for 14 months to make sure the vaccine is safe. This part can't be rushed: if you're going to inoculate all humans, you have to make absolutely sure the vaccine itself won't kill them. It probably won't, but you have to be sure.
Assuming the vaccine is safe and effective, it will still take several months to produce enough to inoculate the global population. For this reason, the Imperial College team estimated it will be about 18 months until the vaccine is available.
During those 18 months, things are going to be very difficult and very scary. Our economy and society will be disrupted in profound ways. And if suppression actually works, it will feel like we're doing all this for nothing, because infection and death rates will remain low.
It's easy to get people to come together in common sacrifice in the middle of a war. It's very hard to get them to do so in a pandemic that looks invisible precisely because suppression methods are working. But that's exactly what we're going to have to do. /end

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1239975682643357696.html

I read the article and I want to finish reading the study.  But, it seems that these models are saying that the ONLY way to mitigate high rate of sickness and death from COVID is to keep the current draconian measures in place for a year or more.  The article mentions 18 months!!  I just don't see how that can work.    Does anyone in gov't think that it would work to keep everyone home and schools and businesses closed for longer than a month or two?   

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Imported cases rising for Singapore https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/coronavirus-47-new-cases-imported-travel-self-isolation-overseas-12551968
“SINGAPORE: Singapore on Wednesday (Mar 18) reported 47 new COVID-19 cases, taking the total in the country to 313.

 

Of the new cases, 33 are imported, and includes 30 returning Singapore residents who were infected overseas and brought the infection to Singapore, authorities said.

These imported cases comprise citizens, permanent residents and long-term pass holders. 

Nineteen of them have a travel history to Europe while six had been in North America. Six other cases have a travel history to ASEAN nations while another case travelled beyond ASEAN to other parts of Asia.”

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Whole Foods US, Canada, UK

https://media.wholefoodsmarket.com/news/how-whole-foods-market-is-responding-to-covid-19
“Starting on Wednesday, March 18, all Whole Foods Market stores in the U.S. and Canada will service customers who are 60 and older one hour before opening to the general public, under the new adjusted hours posted on the store’s web page. (example: if a store’s new hours are 9am-8pm, customers who are 60+ can shop starting at 8am.)  

Starting on Thursday, March 19, all Whole Foods Market stores in the U.K. will service customers who are 70 and older one hour before opening to the general public, under the new adjusted hours posted on the store’s web page.

We are setting aside this time to help these customers, who national health authorities have identified as among the most vulnerable to COVID-19, feel more comfortable shopping our stores and helping to ensure they are able to get the items they need in a less crowded environment.

In addition, Whole Foods Market stores will close up to two hours early to give our Team Members more time to restock shelves, sanitize our stores and rest in preparation for the next day. During this time, stores will remain open for pickup (in stores that offer it), and we will continue to fulfill Prime delivery orders in an effort to meet unprecedented demand and ensure that people who need to remain at home can still get their groceries in a timely manner.“

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8 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3075567/people-blood-type-may-be-more-vulnerable-coronavirus-china-study?__twitter_impression=true
 

have we talked about this yet?  Study find possible link between blood type and vulnerability to Covid19.  I cant find the link to the original study.  

So yet another risk factor for me.

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Something I can't figure out....  Our state has instituted rules (no more than ten people, closed gyms, restaurants are carryout only).  But, there's no official cases in our area (for several hours in any direction), and doctors aren't reporting any weird respiratory stuff.  I don't think it's here yet.  We're not locked down, but we are socially distancing, mostly staying home, etc.  

What I'm trying to figure is:  do we start eating our stash now, or do we keep it in the pantry/ freezer and continue to shop/ cook/ eat as usual?  That does require going to the store regularly, but I'm nervous about eating my stash and not having it, especially as stores are pretty depleted right now.  

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1 minute ago, Terabith said:

Something I can't figure out....  Our state has instituted rules (no more than ten people, closed gyms, restaurants are carryout only).  But, there's no official cases in our area (for several hours in any direction), and doctors aren't reporting any weird respiratory stuff.  I don't think it's here yet.  We're not locked down, but we are socially distancing, mostly staying home, etc.  

What I'm trying to figure is:  do we start eating our stash now, or do we keep it in the pantry/ freezer and continue to shop/ cook/ eat as usual?  That does require going to the store regularly, but I'm nervous about eating my stash and not having it, especially as stores are pretty depleted right now.  

 

I would keep your stash.  Keep going to the store and shopping and leave your stash.  Although I am listening to a podcast from someone from Italy right now and he is saying their shelves are not empty.   But I am not so certain that is going to keep happening here.    The cases are going to come to your area and you are going to want to avoid the stores more. 

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50 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

I read the article and I want to finish reading the study.  But, it seems that these models are saying that the ONLY way to mitigate high rate of sickness and death from COVID is to keep the current draconian measures in place for a year or more.  The article mentions 18 months!!  I just don't see how that can work.    Does anyone in gov't think that it would work to keep everyone home and schools and businesses closed for longer than a month or two?   

 

I'm certain that many people in the government are quietly discussing this, because even the CDC has been somewhat open that this will be a problem until effective treatments or a vaccine is developed.  But I seriously doubt anyone will publicly discuss it for another 5-6 weeks.  Mentioning having enough supplies for 2-4 weeks has put the economy in a tailspin. Saying 12-18-20 months will be seriously panic inducing right now. But when people have been home for 6 weeks, and they see it can be done, and they really can stand their children and spouse, and the deaths have started en masse and then started to level off?  People will either get a job at a grocery store or figure out how to stay at home. I seriously doubt anyone will talk about 18-20 months very seriously.  They'll discuss life in terms of the next 2-4-6-8 weeks, not in terms of 2 years.

 

16 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

So yet another risk factor for me.

 

I wouldn't take this so seriously.  Don't take anything from China very seriously, but really any sort of blood type thing from Asia.  This was a really small sample size, they didn't filter out for population in wuhan, the risk factors, or anything else.  Blood types there are the sort of thing that's like an astrology type of thing here.  This is like saying people born under fire signs are much more susceptible because they are more inclined to get a fever- it's pure hogwash. There are many different kinds of blood typing, not just A/B/AB/O, or RH factors.  As far as I know the only virus shown to have a slightly higher susceptibility to anything is with norovirus, and it just takes a couple days longer to fight it off.  That's a completely different type of virus and there is basically zero evidence this click-bait type of observational study of coronavirus was accurate at all.

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8 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Something I can't figure out....  Our state has instituted rules (no more than ten people, closed gyms, restaurants are carryout only).  But, there's no official cases in our area (for several hours in any direction), and doctors aren't reporting any weird respiratory stuff.  I don't think it's here yet.  We're not locked down, but we are socially distancing, mostly staying home, etc.  

What I'm trying to figure is:  do we start eating our stash now, or do we keep it in the pantry/ freezer and continue to shop/ cook/ eat as usual?  That does require going to the store regularly, but I'm nervous about eating my stash and not having it, especially as stores are pretty depleted right now.  

 

I would keep shopping until it's closer to you in your case.

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12 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Something I can't figure out....  Our state has instituted rules (no more than ten people, closed gyms, restaurants are carryout only).  But, there's no official cases in our area (for several hours in any direction), and doctors aren't reporting any weird respiratory stuff.  I don't think it's here yet.  We're not locked down, but we are socially distancing, mostly staying home, etc.  

What I'm trying to figure is:  do we start eating our stash now, or do we keep it in the pantry/ freezer and continue to shop/ cook/ eat as usual?  That does require going to the store regularly, but I'm nervous about eating my stash and not having it, especially as stores are pretty depleted right now.  

As someone in an "epicenter", keep on shopping.  Eat fresh fruits, veggies and meats.  That's better for your health anyway.  😉  Honestly, that's what I am still doing even here.  The empty places in our grocery store are the processed foods and carbs and canned foods.  There are plenty of fresh veggies and fruits.  There was a run on chicken at first but that has stopped and there are plenty of proteins available. 

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Just now, Jean in Newcastle said:

As someone in an "epicenter", keep on shopping.  Eat fresh fruits, veggies and meats.  That's better for your health anyway.  😉  Honestly, that's what I am still doing even here.  The empty places in our grocery store are the processed foods and carbs and canned foods.  There are plenty of fresh veggies and fruits.  There was a run on chicken at first but that has stopped and there are plenty of proteins available. 

We have tons of fresh fruits and veggies, but it's getting really hard to find meats!  I'm pondering going this afternoon and seeing if they have rotisserie chickens.  We do a lot of things with them.  

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Just now, Terabith said:

We have tons of fresh fruits and veggies, but it's getting really hard to find meats!  I'm pondering going this afternoon and seeing if they have rotisserie chickens.  We do a lot of things with them.  

Costco for rotisserie chicken 😂

Meat ran out fast here at the supermarkets, even the Asian ones with the pricier hyper thin sliced meat for hotpot. 
Ginger and garlic kept running out of stock in my nearby supermarkets so I grab more.

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2 hours ago, Plum said:

Aren’t they always releasing prisoners early? Sorry. 😊 I grew up there and that’s a story I’ve heard many times. Love ya CA. 

From what I’ve heard on the news, They decriminalized a lot of theft related crimes which is why people in SF and Sac are always getting stuff stolen out of their cars and shoplifters aren’t prosecuted. 

Now, they will be released right away instead of early and the police will try not to arrest criminals! Though I am being sarcastic, spread of COVID in prisons is a serious issue and I commend the sheriff for handling it before it becomes a huge problem for the health professionals. (we are facing an equally huge problem of Covid-19 spreading amongst the ton of homeless people in CA that every single official who has given a statement so far has addressed it and they are trying out a lot of options to manage it).

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Re: stash.  I suggest going to the store still, but maybe being really careful in your menu planning so you can do 1x a week instead of 6x a week (like I tend to do!).  That is what I'm doing, trying to limit my number of trips while not skimping on fresh produce.  I consider our stash to be our quarantine stash- what we would eat through if anyone in the family had symptoms and we locked down for 2 weeks.  

I'm in Switzerland, and have no worries at all about large-scale shortage.  

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28 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Costco for rotisserie chicken 😂

Meat ran out fast here at the supermarkets, even the Asian ones with the pricier hyper thin sliced meat for hotpot. 
Ginger and garlic kept running out of stock in my nearby supermarkets so I grab more.

We don't have a Costco membership.  There's only four of us, so once kids were out of diapers, there wasn't anything we really used in large enough quantity to justify a membership.  We usually just go to local grocery store.  Of course, with all the craziness, I definitely see a benefit to Costco amounts.  

I bought a whole garlic, since uncut they can last six months, according to google.  (Usually we just buy as we need.  But we also eat out or at my mother in law's a lot.)  My husband went to use it for something, and I was like, "No!  You can't use our quarantine garlic!")

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38 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Something I can't figure out....  Our state has instituted rules (no more than ten people, closed gyms, restaurants are carryout only).  But, there's no official cases in our area (for several hours in any direction), and doctors aren't reporting any weird respiratory stuff.  I don't think it's here yet.  We're not locked down, but we are socially distancing, mostly staying home, etc.  

What I'm trying to figure is:  do we start eating our stash now, or do we keep it in the pantry/ freezer and continue to shop/ cook/ eat as usual?  That does require going to the store regularly, but I'm nervous about eating my stash and not having it, especially as stores are pretty depleted right now.  

 

IMO: Try to go to store regularly, but infrequently— Like once per week a well done trip instead of oops I need _____ and going over for one or two items. 

Keep your stash for if supplies run out, or if someone in your family is sick and you have to quarantine till what it is is determined, or someone has known CV and you have to isolate, or your area goes into an extreme lockdown (though I don’t think anyplace has locked down food production and distribution).

 

———

I am in an agricultural and forestry area, and all agriculture is proceeding as normal, or even stepping up production so far as I can tell.  

It is part of “essential service” exemptions on lockdown rules I have read. 

And for Northern hemisphere we are of course just getting into new growing season.  So fresh food should be okay and I hope plenty will be dried, frozen and canned for next winter when we won’t be able to rely on imports from Southern Hemisphere.  

It will take awhile, but especially if there’s less gasoline use going places for non essential travel, USA grain based alcohol currently going into motor fuel should become available for new hand sanitizer and other cleaners after late summer-fall next harvest and processing can occur.  Similarly some other agricultural and other products currently being used for fairly frivolous purposes can start going into needed supplies such as PPE.  

But nature grows plants mostly in their own seasons and speeds so expecting a new cotton crop to go to PPE instead of cutesy travel memorabilia T-shirts, for example, cannot be instant. 

Some things could get creative though, sooner, maybe. 

 

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2 hours ago, PrincessMommy said:

I read the article and I want to finish reading the study.  But, it seems that these models are saying that the ONLY way to mitigate high rate of sickness and death from COVID is to keep the current draconian measures in place for a year or more.  The article mentions 18 months!!  I just don't see how that can work.    Does anyone in gov't think that it would work to keep everyone home and schools and businesses closed for longer than a month or two?   

 

Yes!  Of course!

A few weeks ago people didn’t see how they could live without going on one or multiple vacations.

compare WWII.

Extended need for different way of living. 

Look at the memes on how Our grandparents were called upon to step forward and fight in World War Two.  We are being asked to sit on the couch.  There’s a lot of truth to that. 

Get ready to look at and change your lives for the likely long term.

 

We can do this. 

 

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1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Something I can't figure out....  Our state has instituted rules (no more than ten people, closed gyms, restaurants are carryout only).  But, there's no official cases in our area (for several hours in any direction), and doctors aren't reporting any weird respiratory stuff.  I don't think it's here yet.  We're not locked down, but we are socially distancing, mostly staying home, etc.  

What I'm trying to figure is:  do we start eating our stash now, or do we keep it in the pantry/ freezer and continue to shop/ cook/ eat as usual?  That does require going to the store regularly, but I'm nervous about eating my stash and not having it, especially as stores are pretty depleted right now.  

We have one confirmed case.  My dh went to the store today and bought more food plus picked up groceries.  He is still going to  grocery stores but as little as possible.  He is not the high risk-  I am.

He did say that at the store today, he was social distancing but the elderly kept trying to get closer.  He said the ones in the store either aren't hearing the announcements or don't care if they die, I guess.

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2 hours ago, whitehawk said:

My nearest grocery store has a 2-day wait for delivery, 3 days for pick-up. Previously I could get either in 2-4 hours. I've chosen the delivery rather than sending DH out--if DS and I do have it, he has definitely been exposed. The CDC advice about isolating a sick person is neither suited to our house nor our family (read: I'm the only one who can cook decently).

 

I have been cooking and freezing ahead things for if I am sick. I have to improve my technique for this, not to eat it all in current meal before leftovers get frozen, and how to store for easy use if sick, but am hopeful, that I am getting it figured out.  

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4 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Yes!  Of course!

A few weeks ago people didn’t see how they could live without going on one or multiple vacations.

compare WWII.

Extended need for different way of living. 

Look at the memes on how Our grandparents were called upon to step forward and fight in World War Two.  We are being asked to sit on the couch.  There’s a lot of truth to that. 

Get ready to look at and change your lives for the likely long term.

 

We can do this. 

 

There's a big difference between not going on multiple vacations and keeping the worldwide economy more or less completely shut down and everyone in isolation for 1.5-2 years.  Honestly, the thought makes me cry.  My kids need friends.  

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2 hours ago, whitehawk said:

My nearest grocery store has a 2-day wait for delivery, 3 days for pick-up. Previously I could get either in 2-4 hours. I've chosen the delivery rather than sending DH out--if DS and I do have it, he has definitely been exposed. The CDC advice about isolating a sick person is neither suited to our house nor our family (read: I'm the only one who can cook decently).

I've noticed that if I get on Instacart between 7:30-8:30am I can get delivery within a few hours. By 9am until bed it will list a wait of several days. So, it might help to try at odd or different times.

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35 minutes ago, saraha said:

 

I was coming to post it.   I believe it.  Not that China is super far ahead of us on this, although a few months.  But that hasn't happened there that I know about.   So is it going to be worse here because we didn't act soon enough?  Still are not taking enough measures?   People are not following the rules as much as in China? 

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15 minutes ago, Terabith said:

There's a big difference between not going on multiple vacations and keeping the worldwide economy more or less completely shut down and everyone in isolation for 1.5-2 years.  Honestly, the thought makes me cry.  My kids need friends.  

Yes. Huge difference. Most people don’t go on regular annual vacations, let alone two. Most people are hoping to make enough money to get through the next month relatively unscathed by unforeseeable financial hits (doctor bill, car trouble or plumbing issue). 

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3 hours ago, NorthernBeth said:

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but they have closed the border between US and Canada.  ( except for trade)  I honestly never thought they would really do it. 

 

My DH's parents are being forced to head home to Quebec. The travel insurance will no longer cover them here in San Diego. They drove here, so it isn't really safe to travel cross-country, but they are going to throw a mattress in the backseat of the car and drive as fast as they can, stopping as little as possible. I'm giving them both N95s and hand sanitizer and we are hoping that they make it back ok. They were going to shelter in place on our boat, but without health insurance, that just can't happen. So, they are risking it and going home.

As for us, we are concerned that our RV park may shut down in the next few days and we will have no place to put our home. Several counties in CA have closed nonessential businesses and I assume that San Diego will do so as well within the next few days. Obviously, a campground is a nonessential business from most people's perspective, but many of us are full-time stationary here, and the city has parking ordinances, so we have nowhere to go if all public and private campgrounds are shutdown. Our plan at the moment is to stay with wealthy clients/friends who have RV hookups on their property, assuming they still allow us to leave town and don't shut down the roads because these properties are obviously not in the middle of the city of San Diego. No way to keep our business running, even with a small business loan from the feds, if they shut down nonessential businesses, so I don't understand how they intend to bail people out if they force us all to shut down.

Many of our neighbors are freaking out because they obviously don't have wealthy client friends, and have no clue where they are going to go with their RVs. There are a lot of full-time families living in RVs around the country, and nobody knows where they are going to go.

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1 minute ago, SeaConquest said:

 

My DH's parents are being forced to head home to Quebec. The travel insurance will no longer cover them here in San Diego. They drove here, so it isn't really safe to travel cross-country, but they are going to throw a mattress in the backseat of the car and drive as fast as they can, stopping as little as possible. I'm giving them both N95s and hand sanitizer and we are hoping that make it back ok. They were going to shelter in place on our boat, but without health insurance, that just can't happen. So, they are risking it and going home.

As for us, we are concerned that our RV park may shut down in the next few days and we will have no place to put our home. Several counties in CA have closed nonessential businesses and I assume that San Diego will do so as well within the next few days. Obviously, a campground is a nonessential business from most people's perspective, but many of us are full-time stationary here, and the city has parking ordinances, so we have nowhere to go if all public and private campgrounds are shutdown. Our plan to at the moment is to stay with wealthy client/friends who have RV hookups on their property, assuming they still allow us to leave town and don't shut down the roads because these properties are obviously not in the middle on the city of San Diego. No way to keep our business running, even with a small business loan from the feds, if they shut down nonessential businesses, so I don't understand how they intend to bail people out if they force us all to shut down.

Many of our neighbors are freaking out because they obviously don't have wealthy client friends, and have no clue where they are going to go with their RVs. There are a lot of full-time families living in RVs around the country, and nobody knows where they are going to go.

Wonder if someone could send an email or message to mayor's office about the fact that there are lots of people living in campgrounds so there's an exception?

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29 minutes ago, Terabith said:

There's a big difference between not going on multiple vacations and keeping the worldwide economy more or less completely shut down and everyone in isolation for 1.5-2 years.  Honestly, the thought makes me cry.  My kids need friends.  

 

I am sorry if I seem to be making light of it.  My kid needs people too. And it is probably harder to adjust when the illness doesn’t primarily hit his age group (unlike, say, polio epidemic). 

Out modern way of life, much of it, not just rapid international travel, is a tiny blip on the historical timeline.  We may have to adopt very different ways, and this may not mean total isolation for 2 years.  Small group socializing may be possible fairly safely especially after medical establishment can have more time to overhaul and prepare. 

I am sorry you are sad.  

Going ahead and crying may be helpful to let feelings and grief process. 

 

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2 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

My DH's parents are being forced to head home to Quebec. The travel insurance will no longer cover them here in San Diego. They drove here, so it isn't really safe to travel cross-country, but they are going to throw a mattress in the backseat of the car and drive as fast as they can, stopping as little as possible. I'm giving them both N95s and hand sanitizer and we are hoping that make it back ok. They were going to shelter in place on our boat, but without health insurance, that just can't happen. So, they are risking it and going home.

As for us, we are concerned that our RV park may shut down in the next few days and we will have no place to put our home. Several counties in CA have closed nonessential businesses and I assume that San Diego will do so as well within the next few days. Obviously, a campground is a nonessential business from most people's perspective, but many of us are full-time stationary here, and the city has parking ordinances, so we have nowhere to go if all public and private campgrounds are shutdown. Our plan to at the moment is to stay with wealthy client/friends who have RV hookups on their property, assuming they still allow us to leave town and don't shut down the roads because these properties are obviously not in the middle on the city of San Diego. No way to keep our business running, even with a small business loan from the feds, if they shut down nonessential businesses, so I don't understand how they intend to bail people out if they force us all to shut down.

Many of our neighbors are freaking out because they obviously don't have wealthy client friends, and have no clue where they are going to go with their RVs. There are a lot of full-time families living in RVs around the country, and nobody knows where they are going to go.

 

Sending some good thoughts to your parents that they make it back safely.  That is a long drive.

Oh wow, how scary about the RV park shutting down.  That doesn't sound like a good idea to close it. 

I don't know that the government is going to be able to bail out everyone.   I think they will bail out big businesses like the airlines, but everyone?  This is effecting so many people from all different kinds of businesses.  

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38 minutes ago, Terabith said:

There's a big difference between not going on multiple vacations and keeping the worldwide economy more or less completely shut down and everyone in isolation for 1.5-2 years.  Honestly, the thought makes me cry.  My kids need friends.  

 

It makes me cry too.  I mean I am scared and I want to plan things to look forward to.   But what makes me the most sad is all the things are kids are going to miss out on.   I can't even think about it that much because I just lose it.   I am glad my kids have each other right now, so that have people to talk to and play with.   But it is still sad.  From big to little things.   My kids miss their friends, their activities, and they lost all their plans for the rest of the year.   Trips, shows, summer (this hasn't been cancelled yet, but I know it is going to be).   I can't even imagine how this is hurting them and changing them.  

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23 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

My DH's parents are being forced to head home to Quebec.

 

I don’t know what weather and roads allow, but consider what is safest route back taking into consideration roads and weather and CV etc. 

I might be inclined to go North up I5 into Canada to be in Canada ASAP, and then east, but we have black ice in rural low mountains Oregon still, which would make driving through night more hazardous. 

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The travel insurance will no longer cover them here in San Diego. They drove here, so it isn't really safe to travel cross-country, but they are going to throw a mattress in the backseat of the car and drive as fast as they can, stopping as little as possible. I'm giving them both N95s and hand sanitizer and we are hoping that make it back ok. They were going to shelter in place on our boat, but without health insurance, that just can't happen. So, they are risking it and going home.

 

A few disposable gloves? Food and water to take with them? 

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As for us, we are concerned that our RV park may shut down in the next few days and we will have no place to put our home. Several counties in CA have closed nonessential businesses and I assume that San Diego will do so as well within the next few days. Obviously, a campground is a nonessential business from most people's perspective, but many of us are full-time stationary here, and the city has parking ordinances, so we have nowhere to go if all public and private campgrounds are shutdown. Our plan to at the moment is to stay with wealthy client/friends who have RV hookups on their property, assuming they still allow us to leave town and don't shut down the roads because these properties are obviously not in the middle on the city of San Diego. No way to keep our business running, even with a small business loan from the feds, if they shut down nonessential businesses, so I don't understand how they intend to bail people out if they force us all to shut down.

Many of our neighbors are freaking out because they obviously don't have wealthy client friends, and have no clue where they are going to go with their RVs. There are a lot of full-time families living in RVs around the country, and nobody knows where they are going to go.

 

When I have become aware of a problem like that I have been contacting relevant government office(s)  I can think of.  

And I think they may actually be paying some attention at least in aggregate to citizen contact. 

It seems clear that places for RV living should stay open to allow people to shelter in place.

That just driving around from place to place with the RVs should be what is halted.

But staying in one spot is better than having to move at this point . 

I suggest communicating with local and state governments, and possibly something like FEMA , Health and Human Services, that might be interested nationally.  

Also consider letter to editor of paper.

 

I suggest you Include nearby states as well.  (They learn from each other, and somewhere else may see the letter before CA does.  )

Once one letter and/or notes for phone call are ready, I’ve found that copying and pasting into more than one “contact us” online form isn’t that hard.  

ETA: I suggest you urge your neighbors to change freaking out into the action of communicating to government, letters to editors, call to reporters, etc that campgrounds *are* essential services given these circumstances. 

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1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Yes!  Of course!

A few weeks ago people didn’t see how they could live without going on one or multiple vacations.

compare WWII.

Extended need for different way of living. 

Look at the memes on how Our grandparents were called upon to step forward and fight in World War Two.  We are being asked to sit on the couch.  There’s a lot of truth to that. 

Get ready to look at and change your lives for the likely long term.

 

We can do this. 

 

I've not seen those memes but have been thinking a lot about the sacrifices our grandparents and great-grandparents made for the greater good but way too many are just blowing this off because it is not affecting younger people as much.

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Campland has very good attorneys, who are used to advocating with the city council and mayor in a protracted legal battle over development issues. I know the owner and will send him an email, but I am sure this is on his radar. He is a very savvy businessman and has been able to rally the government and people here when needed for his purposes. But yeah, I am going to send some emails today to my legislative reps to ensure that people understand what could happen.

Re the grandparents, we will make sure they have everything they need for the journey. Thankfully, they are active and in good health, and financially secure. We just need to get them home safe, so I am going to lay out an infection control procedure for them.     

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13 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

 

It makes me cry too.  I mean I am scared and I want to plan things to look forward to.   But what makes me the most sad is all the things are kids are going to miss out on.   I can't even think about it that much because I just lose it.   I am glad my kids have each other right now, so that have people to talk to and play with.   But it is still sad.  From big to little things.   My kids miss their friends, their activities, and they lost all their plans for the rest of the year.   Trips, shows, summer (this hasn't been cancelled yet, but I know it is going to be).   I can't even imagine how this is hurting them and changing them.  

It is the high school/college age population I am really said for.  From the ones I have talked to, they are not so worried about getting sick themselves, but they are wondering about the ability to take SAT exams/ AP exams/ interviewing for jobs/ etc. They are also at a developmental stage where they want to be around other young people.  DS just found out that he has lost his job (as a valet), his classes are being moved online, his gym where he works out has closed, his summer study abroad that he has looked forward to will probably be cancelled, he shouldn't go visit his grandmother, he can't go to church... I think this is different than a war situation where the young people were asked to step up and do something.  In this situation, it is much more difficult for them to come up with a constructive way to use all of their young adult energy.

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1 minute ago, soror said:

I've not seen those memes but have been thinking a lot about the sacrifices our grandparents and great-grandparents made for the greater good but way too many are just blowing this off because it is not affecting younger people.

 

It will if their parents are disabled or dead.

It also almost certainly will affect some younger people and while percent may be low, as total cases rise the total number affected may rise.

plus we don’t know if it is sparing most of them with just asymptomatic or very mild illness permanently or whether in a some month or a year possibly the virus will come out of dormancy in their bodies and hit them much harder. 

We really don’t know.

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50 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

 

I was coming to post it.   I believe it.  Not that China is super far ahead of us on this, although a few months.  But that hasn't happened there that I know about.   So is it going to be worse here because we didn't act soon enough?  Still are not taking enough measures?   People are not following the rules as much as in China? 

South Korea would be a better scenario to follow. China can impose martial law. South Korea’s approach is more moderate. US would likely be more “relaxed” than South Korea.

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2 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

It is the high school/college age population I am really said for.  From the ones I have talked to, they are not so worried about getting sick themselves, but they are wondering about the ability to take SAT exams/ AP exams/ interviewing for jobs/ etc. They are also at a developmental stage where they want to be around other young people.  DS just found out that he has lost his job (as a valet), his classes are being moved online, his gym where he works out has closed, his summer study abroad that he has looked forward to will probably be cancelled, he shouldn't go visit his grandmother, he can't go to church... I think this is different than a war situation where the young people were asked to step up and do something.  In this situation, it is much more difficult for them to come up with a constructive way to use all of their young adult energy.

 

Oh for sure.   I think this is bigger and harder than the housing collapse.  It isn't just one thing it is everything.  All at once.  Everything that they are supposed to be doing this year is now not going to happen.   All the kids not going to prom or graduating.   I have no clue how things are going to go forward for kids trying to get in to college.   So sad.   I am sending some good thoughts to your DS.   

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The Guardian is reporting that Trump has closed the Canadian border to all non-essential traffic.

National Parks have waived all entrance fees.

Actually, the Guardian is just awash with announcements right now. The link title doesn't accurately reflect what is posting right now.  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/mar/18/joe-biden-wins-democratic-primaries-bernie-sanders-donald-trump-coronavirus-live-updates

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11 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

It is the high school/college age population I am really said for.  From the ones I have talked to, they are not so worried about getting sick themselves, but they are wondering about the ability to take SAT exams/ AP exams/ interviewing for jobs/ etc. They are also at a developmental stage where they want to be around other young people.  DS just found out that he has lost his job (as a valet), his classes are being moved online, his gym where he works out has closed, his summer study abroad that he has looked forward to will probably be cancelled, he shouldn't go visit his grandmother, he can't go to church... I think this is different than a war situation where the young people were asked to step up and do something.  In this situation, it is much more difficult for them to come up with a constructive way to use all of their young adult energy.

 

I have a high school junior. It *is* hard. Yes. 

I think possibly asking kids to start using some of that energy to help if possible would be a good idea.  

Can they babysit for younger children whose parents need to work? 

Can they deliver supplies to older people and people with health problems who should be in isolation? Maybe visit through glass window to help reduce isolation?

maybe they can figure things out using personal ingenuity 

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4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

The Guardian is reporting that Trump has closed the Canadian border to all non-essential traffic.

National Parks have waived all entrance fees.

Actually, the Guardian is just awash with announcements right now. The link title doesn't accurately reflect what is posting right now.  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/mar/18/joe-biden-wins-democratic-primaries-bernie-sanders-donald-trump-coronavirus-live-updates

 

SeaConquest- I hope your parents can still get home.   

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I'm actually really grateful that my oldest is only a high school senior.  I really feel for those graduating college trying to find a job in all of the chaos that is going to be happening in the next two years.  Oldest is doing online college studies right now.  It's not ideal, but it's a productive use of his time.  His college bookstore is shipping all books for next term free via UPS, and has extended all book rentals. Campus is closed down at this point, almost entirely. (I think public safety and a few administrative areas are still running.)

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I'm not going to go back and find the links above in the thread (I think both on page 153), but I am very encouraged today to read the positive results they are having with chloroquine treatments, both as treatment and as preventive. The studies refer to it as an inexpensive and readily available drug world-wide. It is not without side effects, but it does sound promising.

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13 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

And this kind of stuff is already happening: https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/03/18/georgia-hospital-sewing-masks-together-vpx.cnn

A Georgia hospital is sewing masks out of surgical draping.

Here too:  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/hospital-makes-face-masks-covid-19-shields-from-office-supplies

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