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Senior bathroom - ideas?


Spryte
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We are putting in a bathroom on the lower level of our house.  It’s for my 77 yr old mother, who has moved in.  She will have a small in law apt down there.  

Any experience or ideas?

Our preliminary sketch, from the contractor, has a roll in shower, but I am now wondering if we could do a small lip.  It’s occurred to me that if she’s in a wheelchair, she’s probably exceeded my caregiving expertise.  We want to plan for a walker though, so I’m not sure if a small lip will work.  A small lip would save us drilling into our foundation and a lot of money, but we will do it if it’s best.

There will be a built in seat and plenty of bars to hold.

The contractor suggested poured concrete for the floor (stained and sealed), but I fear that will be slippery and cold.  Any suggestions?

We are doing a wet bar with a fridge and microwave - both low, so no spilling.

Any suggestions or ideas on how to set things up to make life easier for all of us?  Materials that are better than others from a senior-needs perspective?

 

 

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We just had to remove shower doors for my in-laws, since they were in MIL's way when she assists FIL. So, make sure you go curtain instead of doors on the shower. 

A lip isn't too much of a problem for FIL, who uses a walker. He holds onto the walker and then grabs a bar before letting go of the walker. They have tile, which works well, but I don't know how the different floors would work.

A bidet is a great idea. I don't know if there are taller toilets, but that'd be great if there is. FIL sometimes has trouble standing back up after toileting.

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It's very possible for someone to be weak enough to need a wheelchair at certain times but not require a lot of extra care otherwise. However, it's not that hard to push a wheelchair over a small ridge. I don't know of a particular reason you wouldn't want to do that in the shower, but I'm no expert. It would impede a walker if she is not able to lift it over the lip, but it seems like you could help her with that easily. She could have a robe or one of those big towel robe wraps; she doesn't take it off until you help her into the shower, puts it on before you help her out. Put an easy-to-reach hook inside the shower to hang it on. 

I can't think of the correct word, but you want to have the hand-held shower . . . thingy. 

Grab bars in the shower AND next to the toilet (for seniors who find it hard to get up from a sitting position). 

The concrete floor sounds a little weird to me also, but then again you could cover the bulk of it with non-slip mats? Removeable mats and concrete floors would make for very easy cleanup. 

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Based on my experience with my dd and elderly caregiving, I would avoid the lip if at all possible.  We've been dealing with a lot of balance issues and foot shuffling with our still mobile (not in a wheelchair) elderly relatives. 

If I were to design a bathroom, I would do it like this: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/61713457374416218/  

Can you do a heated tile floor? Keeping a bathroom warm enough has also been an issue.

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If she likes to crank up the tv, I recommend the bluetooth headphones that will pump the sound directly to her.  Honestly, the lack of privacy for sound was one of the harder things to adjust to.   Also, if she has friends in the area, make sure you have enough seating for her to have them visit (& play cards or do whatever). If she can maintain healthy connections to her support network, so much the better for all of you.  I'm an introvert, she's an extrovert and I can't "people" all day long, iykwim.

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Just a quick thanks, and I want you all to know I’m reading, and very appreciative of all the excellent ideas.  I’m running errands and reading as I can, and will respond more this evening.

 

I’m so excited about some of these ideas, please keep them coming.  So many points I hadn’t considered!

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I would definitely get a tall toilet with grab bars.

I think a small lip in the shower is okay. My mom takes her walker into the shower with her. Once she's inside, she holds on to a grab bar, sets the walker outside the shower, and then sits down. A sliding hand held shower head is very useful. When she's sitting she can reach for it, yet it slides back up if she wants to stand under it. Fiberglass with built a built in slip mat would be my first choice of showe material.

 

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The concrete floor sounds dangerous to me. I would check and see if there are any flooring surfaces that are both non-slip and less hard than concrete. I think the heated floor and the heater in the ceiling are great ideas, and I would also be sure to have some kind of bench in the shower so your mom can sit down in there.

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When my mother redid hers, she had all this stuff in mind for the future (no need for it yet, thank goodness).

She did go with the shower without a threshold. It's lovely. There's not an issue with water everywhere or anything like that. I guess I wouldn't give it a lip for the heck of it. They know what they're doing when they make these nowadays. She also did do a door. It's not like cheap shower doors that you'd normally see. It would accommodate a walker or a wheelchair if need be because of how it swings. It's necessary for the shower having no threshold, so these things are connected essentially. Just something to consider. She also included a tiled bench in the shower. She doesn't use it now (I mean, there's some shampoos and so forth on it. But it looks nice and she thought she might in the future.

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We explored this when my B & SIL adjusted their house for my parents to live-in their last 3.5 years.  Instead of a lip at the edge of the shower, they ended up raising the entire bathroom floor level to accommodate the height needed under the tile for the shower pan and the drain. So as you walked into the bathroom, through a very short hall area, there was a bit of an upward incline over 24 inches.  Then the entire level of the bathroom was raised, and the shower then sloped downward to the back of the shower, where there was a drain grate 3x30" or similar, as opposed to a single round drain inlet in the center of the shower.  It worked great because then the water ran to the back instead of being in the area where feet are busy during the shower. 

The other surprisingly good development in all of this was that the john was next to the shower, and the elbow-height grab bar on the front left of the shower (mounted on the wall just outside the shower curtain) was in the perfect spot for a person who needed to help pull themselves up off the john.  That was a tremendous help and a nice bit of unplanned serendipity.

 

Edited by Halftime Hope
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My in-laws installed an in-law suite in their basement many years ago now. The contractor laid vinyl sheet flooring in the bathroom. They also put a small propane fireplace in her suite, so she could be a little warmer in her sitting area without affecting the rest of the house (or its heating bill).

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I'd recommend a high powered flushing toilet, maybe one that sits up a little higher too. Another consideration is a self-closing toilet lid, easier to handle. We bought ours at Lowes.

I don't know if I'd do the concrete either. I'd consider a vinyl and if you add rugs make sure they are non-slip. 

Make sure lighting is sufficient. Also, drawers seem to be easier to use in a vanity. 

I would also go with a french-style toilet paper dispenser, no little spring-loaded rod to deal with. 

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We remodeled my parent's bathroom for them.

We regretted the walk in tub. I think a shower without a lip is the way to go. Like a previous poster said, balance can be an issue as well as arthritis. A couple of inches is really far when you have a bad case of arthritis in the feet, ankles, knees and/or hips.

No cabinet under the sink - this made it so that my mother could sit on her walker seat to brush her teeth, wash face & hands.

Cabinet on the wall over the toilet - this came in handy for storing various supplies that are needed in the bathroom.

No to the concrete floor - too easy to slip on and hard to land on, IMO.

 

 

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https://www.elmcroft.com/community/elmcroft-of-sagamore-hills-ohio/ If you go to this link and look at the photo gallery for baths, they show a basically roll in shower made with a fiberglass insert. It has a transition strip but wouldn't require an actual step. 

Just as a total side note, if she's in a position where she needs this level of support, you'll want to help with laundry and keeping her bedding fresh. It's probably getting hard at this stage to make her bed. In assisted living, that's one of the things they require of all residents, that housekeeping changes their beds weekly. Might be better to set up principles like that upfront than to have it come up when you notice problems. 

Are you going to put a monitor on her? That's the other thing they do, and it might sound hard or dramatic but it can be worth it. That way if she falls in the middle of the night, whatever, you know. Even just a call button would do if you're home quite a bit.

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I didn't read all replies but my husband made us a fabulous shower.  It has an angle wall, zero entrance and requires no curtain or door.  He used a textured tile throughout the shower and bathroom which I LOVE. While on vacation last week I was reminded how slippery most bathroom floor and shower floors are.  

My husband sledge hammered through the concrete slab all the way to dirt in order to make ours zero entrance.  But he is Superman ;). Not sure why it would cost a lot of money though.....just the proper power jack hammer would be the biggest thing.  

I agree with plenty of grab bars and a bidet. My mom LOVES hers.  

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49 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I didn't read all replies but my husband made us a fabulous shower.  It has an angle wall, zero entrance and requires no curtain or door.  He used a textured tile throughout the shower and bathroom which I LOVE. While on vacation last week I was reminded how slippery most bathroom floor and shower floors are.  

My husband sledge hammered through the concrete slab all the way to dirt in order to make ours zero entrance.  But he is Superman ;). Not sure why it would cost a lot of money though.....just the proper power jack hammer would be the biggest thing.  

I agree with plenty of grab bars and a bidet. My mom LOVES hers.  

Amazing! 

Ill address the expense issue - foundation work is risky for what it can damage, which is why it is so expensive. You’re paying a contractor to accept the risk. For any foundation work double and triple check that the contractor is insured up to the replacement value of your house. Bad foundation work can spell disaster for the stability of the entire structure. 

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Definitely no lip on the shower entrance.  Definitely a built in, flip down shower seat—those are much more secure than the portable ones.  Grab bars everywhere.  

Doors very wide into the bathroom and shower, to accommodate a wheelchair.  Room to turn the wheelchair around in the bathroom as looking over your shoulder to move backwards is tricky at that age.

Re the toilet—my inclination would be to look for a normal height toilet with an attachable raised seat.  That way you are not stuck with the tall design if it becomes inconvenient.  I like the idea of a bidet, but the only modern ones I have seen are controlled electronically and that can be challenging for the elderly.  So be sure to check the controls for ease of use and accessibility before you invest.

Have you ever seen the square vinyl tiles that are textured?  They are much softer and warmer feeling than concrete, and they are not slippery like regular tiles or the typical marble ones.  We have those in one bathroom and I love them.  DH thinks they look fake, which is usually my issue rather than his, but they are improving rapidly and actually I think they look just fine.  Avoid slate—although it’s textured, it is very uncomfortable when barefoot.  This is one application where synthetic is best.  Go figure.

You might look at the really good kitchen mats that they have now—not the ones at Costco but the ones at Williams Sonoma.  They are quite remarkable, and I’d plan to put one next to the bed for a soft landing if she falls, and for a comfortable initial few steps when she first gets up and is stiff.  Some of the newer ones have nice decorative designs.  I have a big one that I use to run in place on when it’s rainy out—that’s how cushy they are.  

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The proper set up can make it easier to care for someone at home with mobility issues. You do not want a lip for a roll in shower. Think of pushing a heavy wagon. It’s easy on flat ground but it’s effort if you encounter even a small step. 

With a shower chair, a person can be rolled over the toilet, then rolled into the shower with no transfer. It makes life easier and more efficient. DON’T get that handicapped tub thing. You’d have to leave the person in it the ENTIRE time it filled and emptied. 

If mobility is the only physical issue, you can care for someone in your home for a long time. A Hoyer Lift is easy to get ahold of and can be used by someone who has never seen one after a one minute demonstration. You can watch a YouTube video. Zero skilled labor involved and you no longer risk the caregiver’s back or the patient’s safety. 

A LOT of people can take care of their own bathroom and showering needs for years and years after they need help getting from point A to point B. 

I am the world’s most incompetent nurse, but I’m able to assist my wheelchair bound son who is bigger than me with some very inexpensive equipment. You can even make a bathtub accessible with a lift if you can get it around or under the tub. (Think clawfoot or narrow-freestanding tubs.)

I wouldn’t get the tall toilet because a shower chair won’t go over it. I’d also make sure any integrated shower seat flipped up in case you need to roll a shower chair in there. (This is the whole point of roll in shower.)

They do make a foam lip you can roll over. I purchased one but never installed it. ? There’s a learning curve for keeping water in a roll in shower but my family figured it out before I installed the thingy. 

I installed luxury vinyl plank on my main level because it seemed my best option for the mobility equipment and dog claws. 

I also put French doors on the accessible bathroom and made them open out. This lets us steal hall space for wheelchair turnarounds. We made another bathroom accessible by swapping the regular door hinges for the swing-away kind that give you an extra inch or so to get through the door. 

Edited by KungFuPanda
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36" doors everywhere.....in all rooms.of her apartment.

My mother is an electric wheelchair had waterproof luxury vinyl plank flooring put down and she loves it and it holds up.to wheelchair traffic ...non slip and warmer than tile.but you.can get the tile look kind too.

Showerhead that can be hand held with a normal height hook and a lower one that will be good for her seated position.

I like the higher toilets for all.sonI would go with those.

 

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what I have seen in sr. care homes - no lip, the floor may be dipped towards a drain.  the whole thing is tiled.  you can still use a shower curtain.  (when mobility is an issue - I wouldn't use glass panels as they limit space.)

grab bars by the toilet, as well as in the shower.   if she's using a walker at 77 - plan for a wheelchair too.  

lower sink that extends.   knobs that are very easy.

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Absolutely NO lip on the shower. You'll regret it. You want it to be "roll in". Dementia/strokes/etc can really impact ability to move the feet in standard ways. "Shuffling" becomes common place. Just do it right and you'll be glad. Trust me. 

Put grab bars everywhere. There are cool ones that serve dual purposes, like a circular one that doubles as a TP holder. (I love that one so much. I'll put one in every bathroom I design/refurbish in the future.) Just browse images on google and/or search Amazon for ideas.

Plan exact grab bar locations NOW and have extra studs/2 by 4s put in the appropriate places before wallboard. It's VERY easy and cheap to do if you do it before the wall board goes up. This will save you HUGE money and trouble. You have to attach grab bars to studs . . .

For the floor, have radiant heat put in the floor between the poured concrete and the tile. Definitely do tile, but have it heated. Choose tile that is for FLOORS and so not slippery when wet. 

Leave plenty of open floor space for walker/wheelchair if needed, and for now, you can have a water proof "shower bench" (like in spas, wood, pretty). Mom's bathroom is something like 14 feet by 9 feet. You read that right, lol. It does have both a big tub AND a walk/roll in shower, but even w/o the tub, I wouldn't want it much smaller than subtracting the tub. With elder care, you OFTEN have two adults in there, along with a walker or wheelchair and mounds of supplies/equipment. Imagine a rolling oxygen tank, etc. 

I made the shower totally w/o barriers. The shower area is about 6 x 6 feet, no seams, just a gently sloping floor to a "linear drain" along a side wall. Adjacent to that is a lot of open floor space (in front of a large vanity). This allowed enough room for Mom + 2 helpers when needed. The entire floor in the bathroom is waterproof, fwiw. 

Install a high quality heating fan thingy in place of the normal ventilation fan. They're only about $300-400 and make a world of difference. Mom was VERY cold sensitive when she was ill, and that thing allowed me to get it 100+ degrees in a few minutes, so she could shower/bathe/etc in comfort. (I might have been sweating, but she was comfy!) This is CRITICAL, IMHO. Plan it now, and it'll only cost you a couple hundred bucks over a cheap standard fan. Wait until later, and you're looking at a lot extra, because they'll have to run a dedicated electric line (as the heater is a high watt electric thing.) You can put a timer switch in place of the standard wall switch, to prevent Mom from leaving the heater on for hours (very expensive compared to regular heat, especially if you're running the A/C, lol.)

SINGLE lever faucets for all faucets. No knobs. No separate hot and cold handles. 

In the shower, I put in two shower heads. One was "normal". The other one is a handheld thing that goes up and down on a 30 inch (or so) vertical bar (that doubles as another grab bar). This allows the senior to "take a shower" like normal, but an aide/helper can use the handheld thing to assist. 

I ended up NOT making the sink wheelchair accessible, and that worked out fine for us, as Mom passed away w/o ever being in a wheelchair. But, know that if you do that, you'll have to re-do the vanity/sink if a wheelchair becomes necessary. 

Tons of storage and cabinet space in or nearby the bathroom. Depends, etc are VERY bulky, and medical equipment/supplies can become VAST rapidly. 

I made the door swing OUT instead of IN, to avoid the possibility of Mom falling against the door and blocking access to her w/o hurting her. Consider this, or at least consider designing the door in such a way that you can easily change it later if needed.

Have an electric outlet installed as close to the toilet as your code allows. This will allow you to add a "bidet seat" to the toilet at some point if it becomes helpful. I actually bought one right before Mom had her final stroke, and returned it unopened after she passed away, so I can't tell personal experiences, other than to say that they could be VERY helpful with many elder care situations. Putting the outlet in now will only cost a few dollars, and would save many hundreds if you later need it. 

Research "ADA" bathrooms for ideas. Look at pictures.

 

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3 hours ago, TechWife said:

Amazing! 

Ill address the expense issue - foundation work is risky for what it can damage, which is why it is so expensive. You’re paying a contractor to accept the risk. For any foundation work double and triple check that the contractor is insured up to the replacement value of your house. Bad foundation work can spell disaster for the stability of the entire structure. 

Oh, that makes sense.....glad he didn't tell me that before he started that project.  ?

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7 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

That way you are not stuck with the tall design if it becomes inconvenient.

We have ADA height toilets only in our house and like them. In fact, it seems odd when we go to other people's houses and see their miniature toilets. :biggrin:

 

6 hours ago, StephanieZ said:

Install a high quality heating fan thingy in place of the normal ventilation fan.

We used the Panasonic WhisperSonic heater fans. As Steph says, they do heat and they exhaust. It's more switches (one for the heater, one, for the fan), but sometimes they even come with a nightlight option. Builder grade are going to be pretty noisy, so something quieter is nice if you can find it. I had read about them online so I just ordered them. 

 

6 hours ago, StephanieZ said:

In the shower, I put in two shower heads. One was "normal". The other one is a handheld thing that goes up and down on a 30 inch (or so) vertical bar

We have this too, and it makes it easier to clean the shower, an added perk. It can either T off the main showerhead or be done as a separate line through the wall.

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6 hours ago, katilac said:

 

I'm trying to picture what you mean by this. Wouldn't you have to transfer from shower chair to toilet no matter the height? 

No. It’s a rolling plastic toilet seat in a metal frame with arms. It can roll onto the toilet, then into the shower without that extra transfer. Transfers can be a pain so minimizing them is nice. I’ve only seen shower chairs are the height of normal toilets. They’re so slim that they could get tippy if made taller. 

We have one like this. It even fits in our “inaccessible” powder room. That bucket thing comes off so you never, ever have to use it. ?

35EA8BE9-A5D9-4B18-B736-7FC7F6A7DE2C.jpeg

Edited by KungFuPanda
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We just adapted a shower into a roll in shower for my Ds that has a lip.  I would spend the extra money.  The lips they do in theses showers are pretty hard rubber and hard for me to put his shower chair over.  I can’t imagine an elderly person who is weaker trying to push through that thing.  We’ve had a shower in a previous house that had no lip and it is so.much.better.  With the annoyance it’s been so far, I’m already thinking of adapting it at some point.  Spend the extra money.  

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Bidet toilet seat.   Get one that dries too.  So, they do their business and then sit there while a wash and dry happens.   No need to reach back there at all, which can sometimes be a problem.   I believe that Needing Help On The Toilet and knowing that it won't end, is the beginning of the end for many people.   I'd work hard to prepare for that situation ahead of time so that the seat is seen as a luxury not another medical need.   

If you go with a high toilet for easing of getting in and out of it, keep a little plastic footstool nearby.   That raises the knees into more of a squatting position to help eliminate.  

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Thank you all!

I’m learning so much, it’s wonderful.

One of our contractors - we are getting estimates from three - feels confident that drilling into the foundation/cement to make the drain for the lipless shower is no big deal.  It’s obvious he’s done it a lot.  It’s a cement slab basement, so it’s making me twitchy to think of the potential damage to our foundation.  But ... it sounds like it’s worth it.  I will close my eyes, grit my teeth and try to manage my stress about that.  Eek!

We have a bidet, and she’s open to one in her bathroom, so we will check into one with a dryer.

Contractor first suggested a pedestal sink but his drawing has a vanity.  I will see about recessing the part under the sink for a wheelchair.

My preference would be no shower doors or curtain, will see what we can do there.  

If we do go curbless roll in shower, that means tile floor, I think?

Off to look at heaters, too, and to make a list of all of these ideas.

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A great option for storage if you go with a pedestal sink is to build a wall of very shallow shelving, at a convenient height.  (Convenient for someone standing, or sitting in a wheelchair.) It can simply be shelves, or it can be smaller-sized cubbies, and we used a mix of both.  

What can your elderperson reach?  Build shelves there.

 

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Our experience...

We've actually preferred a shower that HAS a low lip.  No worries about water dribbling out to the rest of the bathroom floor which can be slippery.  That has been MORE of a concern for us than showers with a low lip.  I assume there's a higher chance that your MIL will still be living with you while really slowing down but still walking, rather than living with you in a wheel chair.  My dh is disabled but isn't in a wheelchair.  I absolutely panic anytime we're somewhere where there's a shower with no lip.  Any water spot on the bathroom tile could cause a fall for my dh.  My 90-year-old parents have a shower with a low lip.

Of course a wheelchair changes everything, but I'd face that when the time comes.

Grab handles everywhere.  Also, think about both sides.  Sometimes elderly people are stronger on one side (and in my dh's case, can only use one arm).

My dh needs a shower bench, and we have a portable one.  But, in our next home, I want to get a built-in shower chair.  It will need to be close enough to the shower head to work.  (I've seen some that are way too far back!)  Some built-in ones are permanently down, but I think I like the ones that fold out from the wall.  Even if you don't add a built-in shower seat (because you can always just get a separate, portable one to put in there, if it comes to that), make sure there's a soap holder at waist level.

A higher toilet seat.  When there comes a point when she may need handles around the toilet, do NOT get ones that are connected to the toilet seat.  Get ones that are separate.  (Huge safety issue when it's all one piece.)

We've stayed in some places that have a type of concrete floor but very textured.  It is purposefully supposed to be non-slip, and they are really great!  

That's all I can think of right now, but I'll come back if I remember more.  ? 

 

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On 10/16/2018 at 2:58 PM, Spryte said:

Thank you all!

I’m learning so much, it’s wonderful.

One of our contractors - we are getting estimates from three - feels confident that drilling into the foundation/cement to make the drain for the lipless shower is no big deal.  It’s obvious he’s done it a lot.  It’s a cement slab basement, so it’s making me twitchy to think of the potential damage to our foundation.  But ... it sounds like it’s worth it.  I will close my eyes, grit my teeth and try to manage my stress about that.  Eek!

We have a bidet, and she’s open to one in her bathroom, so we will check into one with a dryer.

Contractor first suggested a pedestal sink but his drawing has a vanity.  I will see about recessing the part under the sink for a wheelchair.

My preference would be no shower doors or curtain, will see what we can do there.  

If we do go curbless roll in shower, that means tile floor, I think?

Off to look at heaters, too, and to make a list of all of these ideas.

For the sink . . . Make sure the faucet has lever handles and that it sticks out well over the sink. We HATE when the water flow is ALLLL the way at the back few inches of the sink and hard or impossible to reach.

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On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:35 AM, J-rap said:

Our experience...

We've actually preferred a shower that HAS a low lip.  No worries about water dribbling out to the rest of the bathroom floor which can be slippery.  That has been MORE of a concern for us than showers with a low lip.  I assume there's a higher chance that your MIL will still be living with you while really slowing down but still walking, rather than living with you in a wheel chair.  My dh is disabled but isn't in a wheelchair.  I absolutely panic anytime we're somewhere where there's a shower with no lip.  Any water spot on the bathroom tile could cause a fall for my dh.  My 90-year-old parents have a shower with a low lip.

Of course a wheelchair changes everything, but I'd face that when the time comes.

Grab handles everywhere.  Also, think about both sides.  Sometimes elderly people are stronger on one side (and in my dh's case, can only use one arm).

My dh needs a shower bench, and we have a portable one.  But, in our next home, I want to get a built-in shower chair.  It will need to be close enough to the shower head to work.  (I've seen some that are way too far back!)  Some built-in ones are permanently down, but I think I like the ones that fold out from the wall.  Even if you don't add a built-in shower seat (because you can always just get a separate, portable one to put in there, if it comes to that), make sure there's a soap holder at waist level.

A higher toilet seat.  When there comes a point when she may need handles around the toilet, do NOT get ones that are connected to the toilet seat.  Get ones that are separate.  (Huge safety issue when it's all one piece.)

We've stayed in some places that have a type of concrete floor but very textured.  It is purposefully supposed to be non-slip, and they are really great!  

That's all I can think of right now, but I'll come back if I remember more.  ? 

 

Even in my very small bathroom dh created an angle wall to keep the water from coming out at all. Of course for a senior a larger shower would be necessary, but still it can be situated so that no water splashes out.  Also, as mentioned before I have the same non slick tile in my shower floor and then through out the rest of the bathroom.

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