if you've parented a teen/adult with special needs

[ktgrok]

How do you find the line between helping vs enabling?

Background: DS just turned 19 a few weeks ago and has Aspergers, ADHD (finally back on meds as of 3 days ago, was off for months), history of depression/anxiety that respond well to lifestyle changes. He is not in school, not working, does volunteer 3 days a week at a rehab center for birds of prey, handling and taking care of hawks, eagles, kites, etc. Twice in the past week he has gotten to bring home rehabbed birds to release in the general area. He loves working with the animals, and is good at it. But wildlife rehabilitation is not easy to get into for paid work, very few jobs, most paying very little but requiring a bachelors degree or higher. 

Anyway, I tend towards letting Michael do stuff on his own, and well, that hasn't gotten us real far(hence being off meds for so long, I tried letting him handle it, and even with reminders he couldn't keep up with getting refills. I finally got his refill for him and handed it to him, now he's back on them. And I'm counting pills when he's not looking to be sure he takes them. He is a different person on and off his ADHD meds.)

Right now he's barely looking for a job, still volunteering, but that's it. And his father died two weeks ago, which didn't help anything, so  I'm ready to step in more. He's interested in animal related jobs, and I'm a former dog trainer and vet tech, and I can help him with this. I've put out feelers in the community for kennel/vet clinic jobs but so far nothing. Hoping that changes when school starts back up. But realized that dog training is something he can start learning now, hands on, and for practical purposes is the most lucrative of the animal jobs he could do, short of veterinarian. And I don't see him putting that kind of time into school to be a vet. So....I'm thinking of having him start by walking and training the neighbor's dog, who is young and needs it, to get experience and list as a reference (he's also signing up on Rover.com to be a dog walker). I talked to the neighbor and she is very willing.  Is me initiating this going to far? He'll have to do the work, but in past scenarios he doesn't show interest until I get him over that first hump. Like, I had to make him volunteer, but now he LOVES it and it is the biggest best thing in his life. So, thinking that, is it okay to take the lead on this, and see if it turns out that way as well? As long as I don't keep pushing if he hates it, obviously?  

I feel like it is, but I know "normal" parenting advice would be that I'm making things too easy, that if I am the one initiating things he'll never learn, etc. Like, he needs a resume to apply to a few of the vet clinics (he did go fill out applications at others, but no one is hiring right now for kennel/entry level), and he just wasn't doing it. So finally, I made him a basic one. I told him he can tweak t, he hasn't. So I'm thinking I need to sit down with him and some snacks and go over it with him, to tweak it, then sit there while he emails it to the clinics. Is this helicopter parenting, or is it akin to what a job coach would do at a vocational center, or?

This parenting thing is hard. 

 

[displace]

Mine aren’t teens or adults yet.  But I do know that adhd, even in adults, causes maturity delays, above and beyond normal young adult decisions.  Experts suggest there is a 30% delay in maturity level for people with adhd.  This has to deal with most higher processes, like executive functioning, maybe relationships, etc.  I assume the Aspergers may additionally delay or change behaviors.  So a 19 year old may be functioning as a 14 year old.  I think if he’s willing to let you help scaffold him longer, I’d do it and help him with adulting.  I think an independent business, like dog walking or pet sitting, could be great.  I’d set out and figure out expectations wrt living and working, income, schooling, etc.  I’d see if there were resources by people with asperger and/or adhd to help guide you.  And continue gentle conversations with him that just because he’s an adult doesn’t mean he is independent or needs to be.  Or that he can’t be independent, either.  But help him self-scaffold with technology, career pursuits, etc.  

Edited August 3, 2018 by displace

[TechWife]

My 21 year old son has a similar medical profile to your sons. It sounds as if you are taking appropriate steps and working with who he is, not who others expect him to be, so you are doing a great job. One thing I had to learn was that I cannot force my son to mature, he will go at his own pace, which is not a typical pace, and that’s okay. It sounds like you have learned this lesson as well. I know it’s hard, I’m right there with you. I think you’re doing a great job. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by TechWife

[katilac]

The autism alone is sufficient reason for some extra support, imo. 

I don't think you are doing too much by lining up potential jobs. Right now, his goal can be to do a great job once he has employment. A year from now, his goal might be to get more involved in the process, with you still leading the way. Three years from now, he might be ready to take the reigns himself . . . but, in all honesty, he might not be. Asperger's, ADHD, and anxiety might make that very difficult. If guiding him in this way is workable, don't worry about what other people might think. I promise you that there are many NT young adults getting plenty of help! 

[happi duck]

I don't like our culture's attitude that a person can't need others once they hit 18.  "If you can't accomplish everything alone it's a fail."

There is something important in my life for which I need some scaffolding but have no one to help.  Having no one to support me does *not* make me go "oh, I have no support so therefore I can now magically do this on my own".  Instead I keep trying and failing while feeling alone.  It hurts my sense of self worth and self confidence.

Just my two cents!

[Annie G]

Sounds like you’re doing a great job. Is there a market for dog walking/dog sitting in your area? That might be something to consider as far as a job while you work him into something more advanced. 

[ktgrok]

You guys, I'm crying. Thank you. 

[Liz CA]

Latest research (and there is still more being researched presently) has found that males with more severe forms of ADHD don't mature as fast and considering that neurotypical males' brains have shown prefrontal cortex maturation (the CEO of the brain where planning and goal making comes from) is around 25-27, I would expect it to take a little longer with your ds. Lots of talking what the "next step is" in whatever endeavor, more concrete assistance and support is probably going to equip him better for a more independent future.

ETA: Also the recent loss of his Dad and all the feelings and thoughts that come with that - even or mostly those he does not verbalize - are probably contributing to some inertia and loss of motivation. When I am grieving, I don't feel especially energetic to try something new.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Liz CA

[ktgrok]

You know, I'm sitting here thinking about how back in the day, plenty of young people went into the family business, or started on the family farm, or apprenticed with a family friend or uncle or whatever. It was normal. So maybe this isn't that different? And people probably wouldn't judge me for helping him fill out college applications or whatever, but that's not where he wants to be right now, so why is helping him with a resume different? 

Again, thank you all. 

 

[Lecka]

It’s not different!  

[Pawz4me]

I think you're doing fine. DS19 (ASD-1, GAD) sometimes needs a little more scaffolding/prodding than DS22 (NT) needed at the same age. I say "more" but truthfully I'm not entirely sure that's accurate. It may be that what he needs is just different than what his older brother needed. I do manage DS19's anxiety medication. I make sure it's filled, cut the pills (his dosage requires that) and I make sure he has an adequate supply of it with him at school. But I know he'll take it, that's never been a problem--it's one of those areas where being routine/structure oriented comes in handy. I do try to keep in mind that in all likelihood the ASD diagnosis means his maturity level lags at least a bit, and possibly by two or three years.

[Night Elf]

I'm trying to help my ds22 who also has Aspergers and anxiety/depression. He went to school part-time for a year, then worked at a grocery store as an all night stocker for a year and has been out of work since last November when he decided he just couldn't take his job anymore. It's time to get up and get moving now so we're encouraging him to seek out opportunities. I'm trying to line up something at the thrift store where I work. He's been in to volunteer a couple of days to see what it's like but then the director told me she couldn't hire anyone else for a while so ds didn't want to go back and volunteer if it wasn't going to lead to anything. Now I found out the main guy in back is leaving as of Sept. 1st. Ds doesn't want his job because it's full-tme but maybe the director will hire ds on as a part-time employee. So I'm the one who's been talking to my boss about my ds instead of letting ds do it. I'm already there, I know her, I know the work, mostly. I also encouraged him to apply at another grocery store and made him sit beside me and fill out the online application and attach the resume that I made for him while he was sitting next to me. Yes, I feel like I'm doing too much but if I don't do as much as I do, he'd just stay home in his room watching videos. He's not self motivated at all. It's discouraging. If he gets hired on at the thrift store it will probably be for 7 - 10 hours a week and we want him working more than that but I told DH that would work for now. Maybe they would increase his hours later like they did me. I think he'd like being at the thrift store better than stocking in a grocery store.

[Toocrazy!!]

I think it sounds like a great thing! Dog walking and pet sitting are very lucrative in my area and I think that's only going to grow. It sounds like a great way to get started if that is something he likes and is interested in learning about. 

Our local humane society is very strong here, so volunteering there would also be a great avenue for more jobs, while getting experience with a variety of pets. Yours might be different, but maybe there's an agency like that? Our overnight boarding and doggy day cares are booming businesses as well and seem to need people. 

Good luck to your son! 

[Toocrazy!!]

And on another note- my DH sometimes has to "make" me do things, or even go places, that I end up loving! My DS has a similar personality. Sometimes people need a hand- or a push!  I'm ok with that. You seem to be going in wide eyed, you'll know if your help starts hurting his long term growth. 

[SKL]

In my opinion, you are a connection connecting him with a career opportunity.  This is done for people decades older than your son, regardless of ability / disability.  I see nothing wrong with it.

Also, regarding the meds thing etc., I don't think it's that unusual for a 19yo man to still be somewhat immature.  Plus, he has a disability that is legitimately relevant to what he can manage on his own.  What are the average prospects for people with this disability who do not get some scaffolding past age 18?

I think the important thing is that he keep busy doing something productive.  It is fine to nudge him to develop the habit.  He's 19.  Some people his age are still in high school.  If he is still in this situation a few years from now, the answers may be different.

[catz]

I think you are doing great!   Not every 18/19 year old is in the same place.  He will get there!   ❤️?

[almondbutterandjelly]

I think your instincts are right on.  FWIW, I have a brother, 11 years younger than I am, who is on the spectrum.  He got his first job out of college due to me, mostly.  He had volunteered with our dad for about 3 summers at our dad's office working on computers and network stuff.  That went on the resume that I created for him.  I found the job announcement at our local university for an IT guy at their library.  I tweaked his resume accordingly.  (I'm the one who created his four year college plan by the way, and when he decided to minor instead of major in Computers, I created the new version which allowed him to major in English, his first love.)  

All that said, he did get the job,  and he is still working for that university today, some twelve years later.

Do what you need to do.  It will pay off.

[maize]

.

Edited August 4, 2018 by maize

[ktgrok]

You guys rock. No one else gets it.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

3 hours ago, TechWife said:

My 21 year old son has a similar medical profile to your sons. It sounds as if you are taking appropriate steps and working with who he is, not who others expect him to be, so you are doing a great job. One thing I had to learn was that I cannot force my son to mature, he will go at his own pace, which is not a typical pace, and that’s okay. It sounds like you have learned this lesson as well. I know it’s hard, I’m right there with you. I think you’re doing a great job. 

This. I don't think I have better words than this, especially the bold bits.

I hope this works out for him!

[displace]

I’d also encourage out of the box businesses.  Does he want to be a falconer?  He could train to put on shows at Renaissance fairs or work with zoos.  He could be a high level bird sitter.  He could expand from pet sitting to at home grooming.  

[ktgrok]

30 minutes ago, displace said:

I’d also encourage out of the box businesses.  Does he want to be a falconer?  He could train to put on shows at Renaissance fairs or work with zoos.  He could be a high level bird sitter.  He could expand from pet sitting to at home grooming.  

I think he'd like to be a falconer but you have to have a place to keep the falcon - room and legal ability to build a mew. Our neighborhood would not allow it. Also, very few actual jobs. IF you luck into one doing nuisance abatement you can make good money, otherwise...not so much. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Ktgrok

[Crimson Wife]

Have you looked into what support services he might qualify for through Vocational Rehabilitation? My SN child is still young but I know that the local community college has a transition program for young adults with Asperger's and HFA that VocRehab can fund (there is also a private pay option). It's 1-4 days per week with each day having a different "theme" (academics, career, independent living, and social). Clients go on the days that apply to their individual needs.

Hopefully someone with BTDT experience will chime in.

[Chris in VA]

I think you are doing fine, too. I am similarly helping my 28 year old. 

[rutamattatt]

Our DD20 with special needs requires that level of assistance.  She always will.  She will be a great employee, but she doesn't have the skill to initiate all the work it takes to get to that point.  And that is OK.    My DH and I are fine with this, but when you have a young adult with "invisible" special needs, it appears to other people that you are "doing too much".  Those folks are worng.  You are right.  You are awesome.  

[Mom22ns]

4 hours ago, happi duck said:

I don't like our culture's attitude that a person can't need others once they hit 18.  "If you can't accomplish everything alone it's a fail."

There is something important in my life for which I need some scaffolding but have no one to help.  Having no one to support me does *not* make me go "oh, I have no support so therefore I can now magically do this on my own".  Instead I keep trying and failing while feeling alone.  It hurts my sense of self worth and self confidence.

 

Liking this wasn't enough. I have a 21 yr old on the spectrum. He is in college, and I went as far as you did in order to help him get an internship for the summer. Give him the support he needs and keep gently pushing. These kids take baby steps. If you push them out of the nest without a safety net, they will fall hard. Don't be afraid to help.

Also, TechWife is right about Voc Rehab. Every state has one and they will help him find a job with an employer willing to deal with special needs. 

[Pen]

I expect I will be dealing with similar issues in a few years. 

I think the steps you are taking sound good as does also seeing if he can get some vocational training or rehab. 

[iamonlyone]

I agree, you are doing well. Our 21 yo needs similar types of help. He is sandwiched between our two NT daughters, and he is well aware of the difficulties he has doing things others don't struggle with. He continues to grow in his independence and is living in an apartment and working full time. But, when it comes to filling out forms or even feeling secure with paperwork at medical appointments, sometimes he asks for my support. 

I think the best thing we can do is love them as they are, and let them know it. The world has enough bars for them to jump and people ready to judge. I gladly help when needed and strive to be our son's biggest cheerleader. It sounds like you are doing the same!

[Daria]

My 19 year old, with anxiety, depression, and ADHD inattentive is very similar to yours. I read your posts and think we might be parenting the same kid. I often hear people pronouncing the evils of helicopter parenting, and that "kids did fine with out it back in my day", but the reality is that the young adults with similar mental health problems in my family didn't do "fine".  We have two close relatives with very similar mental illness to my son's, and both spent their adulthood bouncing back and forth between mental hospitals, halfway houses, and couch surfing.  One is in her early 50's and the other died in her late 40's, neither having held a steady job.   That's not what I dream of for my son. 

I know that two of the strongest predictors of success for people like my son are paid employment during or immediately after high school, and compliance with medication, and I will do what I need to do to make those things happen for him.  My kid has done better with the former than the latter.  To give you a sense of what that looks like, his psychiatrist recently switched to sending prescriptions electronically.  She told him, but he didn't tell me, so I spent a week nagging him to find the paper prescription, before helping him contact the psychiatrist who told me they were waiting for us at the pharmacy.  He then forgot to pick up the meds one day, went after the pharmacy was closed a second day, and then when he did make it they turned him away since he had lost his state ID and two of his meds are controlled.  By this time, he had run out and so his anxiety was creeping up and his working memory was spiraling downward.  I knew that if he waited the 5 days for a replacement ID to come his symptoms would be severe enough to prevent him from making it to the pharmacy, so I went and bought them myself. 

One of the good things about parenting in this century is that other parents are helicoptering too, so I don't stand out.   When my son got a first job at 15, I basically wrote his resume, took him to get his haircut, bought his favorite breakfast to put him in the right mood, and then drove him to the interview and sat outside in the car.  He came out with a job offer and smile, and told me that he thought the reason he was chosen was because he didn't bring his mother inside.  Apparently several other candidates did. 

[Wheres Toto]

I fully expect to have to scaffold my son (Aspergers, SPD, gifted) longer than would be "typical".  My brother is a couple years older than me and has similar issues to my son, only worse.  Possibly actually worse, possibly just worse because back in those days they didn't know how to deal with him, and my mother just listened to what the schools told her.  He's worked for Disney for over 20 years but he hates it, constantly shifts positions, has no chance of advancement, and seems to be working his way to getting fired.  He has ALWAYS struggled with jobs, getting along with bosses, controlling his temper, being appropriate with customers.  I think some extra scaffolding when he was younger would have helped the rest of his life.

I am opening a business that I"m hoping will lead to work opportunities for both my younger kids. 

[displace]

Center for autism and related disorders has programs for adults to help support them in things like this- https://www.centerforautism.com/programs.aspx

If there’s not a program from them near you, there is probably a support group, or at least a Facebook group. Since a lot more information has become known in the last couple of decades there’s more support and advice on the general population.  Treatments and therapies can help adults and families, not just kids.  Honestly, I think most people could benefit from some help sometimes.

[ktgrok]

51 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

I am opening a business that I"m hoping will lead to work opportunities for both my younger kids. 

Part of me wonders if I'll end up doing this - I had a dog training business before, as a side gig when I was working as a vet tech. Theoretically I could do that again, but with him, if need be. 

14 minutes ago, displace said:

Center for autism and related disorders has programs for adults to help support them in things like this- https://www.centerforautism.com/programs.aspx

If there’s not a program from them near you, there is probably a support group, or at least a Facebook group. Since a lot more information has become known in the last couple of decades there’s more support and advice on the general population.  Treatments and therapies can help adults and families, not just kids.  Honestly, I think most people could benefit from some help sometimes.

We do have one, about 45 minutes away. The issue with this, or vocational rehab services, is that he s so "high functioning" that people can't tell, and he has sort of just ignored his diagnosis in many ways. So it would be difficult or impossible to get buy in from him at this point, that he needs special help because of his diagnoses. That may change though. 

In nice, uplifting news, he just called me from the store. He took himself to get a haircut (yay!) and then stopped at the store and called to ask if I wanted him to buy a bottle of olive oil. He remembered that I had dropped a broken a bottle earlier today and so thought I might need some! He CAN be incredibly thoughtful at times, and man, do the meds make a difference!!! 

[unsinkable]

21 hours ago, happi duck said:

I don't like our culture's attitude that a person can't need others once they hit 18.  "If you can't accomplish everything alone it's a fail."

There is something important in my life for which I need some scaffolding but have no one to help.  Having no one to support me does *not* make me go "oh, I have no support so therefore I can now magically do this on my own".  Instead I keep trying and failing while feeling alone.  It hurts my sense of self worth and self confidence.

Just my two cents!

I don't think it is the culture in general, but I do think it is the culture of this board. Very few posters* are honest about their struggles with their teens and young adults but tons are quite willing to be all doom and gloom if your 18 year and 1 day old child isn't completely self-sufficient. 

*off the top of my head, Katie, Quill, Jenny and Night Elf do share, and it is helpful to see and read their posts. 

I have a child with a serious medical condition that (baring a miracle drug) will (probably) never get better so she is in a different category.

I have another kid where I constantly think...*What in the world do I do now!?* When does helping help and when does helping hurt? It is a such struggle when there are LDs and other personal and emotional issues. It is so painful to see my brilliant kid floundering when I know that given the right situation and support would not be floundering. 

 

 

[Mom22ns]

15 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

The issue with this, or vocational rehab services, is that he s so "high functioning" that people can't tell, and he has sort of just ignored his diagnosis in many ways. So it would be difficult or impossible to get buy in from him at this point, that he needs special help because of his diagnoses. That may change though. 

 

Yep. This is us too. Ds even chose not to use accommodations in college and if all goes well he'll graduate this coming May after 4 years, but with quite a bit of support from me. No one, including him—no, especially him—sees him as disabled and getting services from Voc Rehab or anyone else would crush him. 

When ds was younger, I thought about opening a used book store so he could work there and take it over some day. It would still be a good choice for him. He has volunteered at the library and hopes to get a library job. A job where these kids can excel within their comfort zone is definitely important and can be hard to find.

[happi duck]

3 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

I don't think it is the culture in general, but I do think it is the culture of this board. Very few posters* are honest about their struggles with their teens and young adults but tons are quite willing to be all doom and gloom if your 18 year and 1 day old child isn't completely self-sufficient. 

*off the top of my head, Katie, Quill, Jenny and Night Elf do share, and it is helpful to see and read their posts. 

...

 

 

It is the culture where I live and I see enough online, tv etc that I presumed it was everywhere.  I'm glad if it isn't widespread.

[Mom22ns]

38 minutes ago, happi duck said:

It is the culture where I live and I see enough online, tv etc that I presumed it was everywhere.  I'm glad if it isn't widespread.

 

I see it everywhere too. It seems widespread. I see it here, on tv, in friends, on Facebook... I constantly feel like (in everyone else's view and in my paranoid moments) I'm a bad person, a helicopter mom, like I'm ruining my kids futures and disabling them for life. Then I look at my kids. My dd is a 19 year old college junior in a very competitive BSN program. She has a job, an apartment, a fiancé, and excellent grades. My 21 year old ds has ASD, but he is a college senior, just completed an internship (that I found for him), has lived independently on campus and in an apartment, has decent grades, and a fiancé who loves him. Yep, I help. Yep, I'm here whenever they need me. Yep, I do things for them when they can do them for themselves - just to be kind. No, it hasn't ruined their lives, made them ungrateful, or made them unable to do things on their own. It has allowed them to grow at their own (very different) paces and accomplish all they can at each stage and most importantly it has given us a strong bond that I will never regret.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Mom22ns

[Crimson Wife]

16 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

 We do have one, about 45 minutes away. The issue with this, or vocational rehab services, is that he s so "high functioning" that people can't tell, and he has sort of just ignored his diagnosis in many ways. So it would be difficult or impossible to get buy in from him at this point, that he needs special help because of his diagnoses. That may change though.

Would he be amenable to doing counseling/therapy if it's billed as helping him with his father's passing? You could choose a counselor/therapist who is familiar with Asperger's/HFA and able to do both grief therapy & general life coaching.

[unsinkable]

8 minutes ago, Mom22ns said:

 

I see it everywhere too. It seems widespread. I see it here, on tv, in friends, on Facebook... I constantly feel like (in everyone else's view and in my paranoid moments) I'm a bad person, a helicopter mom, like I'm ruining my kids futures and disabling them for life. Then I look at my kids. My dd is a 19 year old college junior in a very competitive BSN program. She has a job, an apartment a fiancé and excellent grades. My 21 year old ds has ASD, but he is a college senior, just completed an internship (that I found for him), has lived independently on campus and in an apartment, has decent grades, and a fiancé who loves him. Yep, I help. Yep, I'm here whenever they need me. Yep, I do things for them when they can do them for themselves - just to be kind. No, it hasn't ruined their lives, made them ungrateful, or made them unable to do things on their own. It has allowed them to grow at their own (very different) paces and accomplish all they can at each stage and most importantly it has given us a strong bond that I will never regret.

Id have to say consider the source. People lie, especially on social media. People exaggerate. I'm not sure what you are seeing on TV...news stories about independent teens?

My circle is pretty widespread...from working class to professional and at all income levels. The vast majority of parents help their kids as much as they are able. Of  course the amount varies but I'd be hard pressed to point to someone IRL who raised their kid to be self-sufficient by 18.

[Mom22ns]

9 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

Id have to say consider the source. People lie, especially on social media. People exaggerate. I'm not sure what you are seeing on TV...news stories about independent teens?

My circle is pretty widespread...from working class to professional and at all income levels. The vast majority of parents help their kids as much as they are able. Of  course the amount varies but I'd be hard pressed to point to someone IRL who raised their kid to be self-sufficient by 18.

I guess you are fortunate in your circle.

These are people I know well. I know them and their kids. The issue is not the source, but the idea that kids are being ruined by parents like me and that we must make them independent as quickly as possible to avoid the destruction of civilization as we know it. There is constant media coverage denouncing "helicopter parenting" and telling how it will ruin the world and has already ruined millennials. I'm just really tired of it all and particularly of feeling condemned (even though no one directly condemns me) for my parenting. Parenting a SN kid is hard. It is a complex balancing act. The idea that if a child has not gained independence by 18 they are a failure, just makes it all harder.

Pardon my frustration. I'm glad it isn't your experience, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

[unsinkable]

4 hours ago, Mom22ns said:

I guess you are fortunate in your circle.

These are people I know well. I know them and their kids. The issue is not the source, but the idea that kids are being ruined by parents like me and that we must make them independent as quickly as possible to avoid the destruction of civilization as we know it. There is constant media coverage denouncing "helicopter parenting" and telling how it will ruin the world and has already ruined millennials. I'm just really tired of it all and particularly of feeling condemned (even though no one directly condemns me) for my parenting. Parenting a SN kid is hard. It is a complex balancing act. The idea that if a child has not gained independence by 18 they are a failure, just makes it all harder.

Pardon my frustration. I'm glad it isn't your experience, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

There is the idea...And the reality. Some People talk a good game here, too, but then I see or the kids tell me what the parents actually DO. *

I have special needs kids. You don't need to tell me it is hard. 

*I am editing to add examples...like the family who swore their kid would buy his own car, that if he wanted a car, he could work and pay for it. Their kid got a car. He had NEVER had a job...but he did buy it himself, with his birthday money. All his birthday money was from his parents and grandparents. So yeah,  they didn't buy him a car, but he didn't actually work and pay for it. 

Or the mom who 'd say she NEVER helped with school work, that they were on their own. But the kids said the mom typed (WPed) all their papers and would make them flashcards and study guide s for tests and exams.

Or the mo m who says her kids do their own laundry but then her DD said, "no we dont! You can stand the way we sort so you end Up doing it! " And the mom laughed and said, yeah you're right.

then there are the parents who do things for their kids but don't want the other parent to know.

like the dad who gives his kid hundreds of extra dollars a month for organic food. The mom thinks it is a waste.

or the mo m who drives her kid to work but lies to the dad bc the dad wants them to walk.

Edited August 4, 2018 by unsinkable

[Daria]

11 minutes ago, Kinsa said:

(I'm replying without reading the thread.) Have you made use of vocational rehabilitation services offered through  your state (FL)?  Your ds is exactly who it is intended to help. 

I don't know about Ktgrok's state, but unfortunately in our state her son would almost certainly be put on the "Category 3" waiting list for Voc Rehab.  My understanding is that no one has gotten off that waiting list in the past 30 years. 

[TechWife]

 Vocational rehab isn’t appropriate for many people. Those with HFA would likely not qualify. If they happen to qualify, then you have to wait for the vocational rehab to be funded. You also have to realize that the jobs available through vocational rehab are usually low skill, low pay jobs.  Additionally, people who are disabled can actually be paid below minimum wage, just because they are disabled. It’s an area open to huge exploitation. These are all things that need to be considered. My son was able to get a job on his own (with our behind the scenes support and without disclosing his disability prior to his hire) and his starting pay was significantly higher than minimum wage. I highly recommend that for people who are high functioning, family support will take them further than vocational rehab can. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by TechWife

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 Vocationak rehab isn’t appropriate for many people. Those with HFA would likely not qualify. If they happen to qualify, then you have to wait for the vocational rehab to be funded. You also have to realize that the jobs available through vocational rehab are usually low skill, low pay jobs.  Additionally, people who are disabled can actually be paid below minimum wage, just because they are disabled. It’s an area open to huge exploitation. These are all things that need to be considered. My son was able to get a job on his own (with our behind the scenes support and without disclosing his disability prior to his hire) and his starting pay was significantly higher than minimum wage. I highly recommend that for people who are high functioning, family support will take them further than vocational rehab can. 

This is pretty much what I thought. 

Maybe I need to think of myself as a vocational rehab person, but with only one client ?

[Daria]

 

11 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 Vocationak rehab isn’t appropriate for many people. Those with HFA would likely not qualify. If they happen to qualify, then you have to wait for the vocational rehab to be funded. You also have to realize that the jobs available through vocational rehab are usually low skill, low pay jobs.  Additionally, people who are disabled can actually be paid below minimum wage, just because they are disabled. It’s an area open to huge exploitation. These are all things that need to be considered. My son was able to get a job on his own (with our behind the scenes support and without disclosing his disability prior to his hire) and his starting pay was significantly higher than minimum wage. I highly recommend that for people who are high functioning, family support will take them further than vocational rehab can. 

I think this varies hugely state to state.  

I teach high school special ed in a school that's right by a state line.  The majority of my students come from my state, but about 1/4 are from the other side of the line.  

The two systems are entirely different.  One starts services at 14, one at 16.  One serves any individual with a documented disability with no waiting lists, the other really only serves the kids with the most significant disabilities and still puts them on waiting lists.  One pays for things like college tuition, while the other is really focused on teaching people to stock shelves at CVS.  I could go on.  

If Katie hasn't investigated services in Florida, I'd encourage her to do so, because here one state would serve her kid well, and the other wouldn't offer him anything.  

[unsinkable]

4 hours ago, Mom22ns said:

I guess you are fortunate in your circle.

These are people I know well. I know them and their kids. The issue is not the source, but the idea that kids are being ruined by parents like me and that we must make them independent as quickly as possible to avoid the destruction of civilization as we know it. There is constant media coverage denouncing "helicopter parenting" and telling how it will ruin the world and has already ruined millennials. I'm just really tired of it all and particularly of feeling condemned (even though no one directly condemns me) for my parenting. Parenting a SN kid is hard. It is a complex balancing act. The idea that if a child has not gained independence by 18 they are a failure, just makes it all harder.

Pardon my frustration. I'm glad it isn't your experience, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

So you are saying that all ( or most or the majority) of the 18 year olds in your circle have achieved independence? Can you clarify that for me, what you mean? 

bc I am picturing that in your life, kids you know leave their parents homes and completely self support.

I have known a few that do that. But no where near most or all o r even a majority.

[Catwoman]

On 8/3/2018 at 1:08 PM, Ktgrok said:

You know, I'm sitting here thinking about how back in the day, plenty of young people went into the family business, or started on the family farm, or apprenticed with a family friend or uncle or whatever. It was normal. So maybe this isn't that different? And people probably wouldn't judge me for helping him fill out college applications or whatever, but that's not where he wants to be right now, so why is helping him with a resume different? 

Again, thank you all. 

 

 

If people are judging you, tell them where they can stick their judgment. 

In the end, all that matters is your son. Who cares what anyone else thinks? You’re doing what’s best for your boy. Help him all you want and if anyone has a problem with that, it’s their problem, not yours!

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, Daria said:

I think this varies hugely state to state.  

I teach high school special ed in a school that's right by a state line.  The majority of my students come from my state, but about 1/4 are from the other side of the line.  

The two systems are entirely different.  One starts services at 14, one at 16.  One serves any individual with a documented disability with no waiting lists, the other really only serves the kids with the most significant disabilities and still puts them on waiting lists.  One pays for things like college tuition, while the other is really focused on teaching people to stock shelves at CVS.  I could go on.  

If Katie hasn't investigated services in Florida, I'd encourage her to do so, because here one state would serve her kid well, and the other wouldn't offer him anything.  

2

It is very different by state. I know someone who gets eyecare through vocational rehab, of all things. I think once she reached adulthood, she got some other benefits, but I can't remember how it all went. She's on a medicaid waiver for SN.

I know someone in another state that has MS (no other disabilities), and she is still able to work largely because vocational rehab has provided her with assistive devices at various points to make her mobile.  

It's worth asking.

[Daria]

10 minutes ago, Kinsa said:

 

I just wanted to address this concern about being paid lower than minimum wage.  The reasoning is that a person on SSI (which the majority of vocational rehab participants are)  cannot exceed a certain amount of income per month, otherwise they lose the SSI. Losing SSI would also mean losing Medicaid and other entitlements that a disabled person needs to survive.  So given that the person must have a low income in order to retain benefits, the options are one of two things: either work for higher wages but doing far fewer work hours, or do a normal amount of work hours at a lower wage.  Since we know people gain a sense of purpose and are generally happier and healthier when they feel connected to the community and feel they are contributing, the latter option is the choice. 

I don't really want to get into a political debate, but I'm just going to say that this reasoning ignores two facts.  One is that the government could easily have chosen other solutions to the problem, such as decoupling Medicaid benefits from income requirements for people who reach the SSI standards for disability.  The other is that large numbers of the people who receive sub-minimum wage are not connected to community because they're working in segregated "sheltered" settings where abuse is rampant.  
 

[TechWife]

57 minutes ago, Kinsa said:

 

I just wanted to address this concern about being paid lower than minimum wage.  The reasoning is that a person on SSI (which the majority of vocational rehab participants are)  cannot exceed a certain amount of income per month, otherwise they lose the SSI. Losing SSI would also mean losing Medicaid and other entitlements that a disabled person needs to survive.  So given that the person must have a low income in order to retain benefits, the options are one of two things: either work for higher wages but doing far fewer work hours, or do a normal amount of work hours at a lower wage.  Since we know people gain a sense of purpose and are generally happier and healthier when they feel connected to the community and feel they are contributing, the latter option is the choice. 

This is not correct. The law is "designed to prevent the loss of employment opportunities for these individuals."  People who are on SSI can work reduced hours at a higher rate of pay - it is the amount of money they earn in total over a period of time that matters, not the amount of money that they earn per hour. Additionally, not all disabled people qualify for SSI, yet they are not afforded the same minimum wage that you or I would be entitled to.

However, what has happened is that unscrupulous employers have used it as a reason to pay disabled people less than they pay able bodied people for the same work. With a waiver, employers don't have to pay any particular minimum wage to disabled people at all. There is little oversight by the DOL to make sure these employees are paid fairly under the existing waiver. Honestly, the waiver is discriminatory in my view. This is a very old law that desperately needs to be updated, if not eliminated all together.

https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/subminimumwage

https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs39.htm

https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-colleagues-press-department-of-labor-on-subminimum-wages-for-workers-with-disabilities

Edited August 4, 2018 by TechWife

[mumto2]

Katie,  I am late to the thread but wanted to add my support.  I also want to add my voice to those who are still helping their kids past 18.  

My dc’s certainly haven’t became completely independent on the eve of their 18th birthdays and I never expected them to.  We give them the support they need to complete their education.  For them that means they are welcome to live in our home, eat their meals with us etc........This is what works for us and them. 

Your kid needs to see how to do it and you are showing him.  It’s all part of the journey.......also it’s wonderful that you have experience in animal care and training.