This is how we should all approach the race question.

[blondeviolin]

My 6yo son went with me to Target today. He's pretty mature for his age, so it wasn't a big deal when he was one aisle over for me... Until some other kid (16 or so) commented that "that white kid" needed to get out of the way so he could get his cart where he needed to go. On the way out of the store, my son asked me why they called him white. We had a bit of a conversation of it being just a descriptive term like "blonde," which he is. My 8yo piped up with a question about what would we call "not white." My 6yo responded, "People."

[bibiche]

Your children are very privileged.  Black children of that age would have long ago been given "the talk." 

[blondeviolin]

Your children are very privileged. Black children of that age would have long ago been given "the talk."

My children ARE privileged. They live in a good home with a family who loves them. They have enough food to eat. They have a bed to sleep on. And occasionally they get to come with me to Target and pick something from the dollar spot.

 

We have talked plenty of treating everyone with respect and this is definitely NOT the first time my kids have had discussions about race with me. Far from it.

 

And I'm privileged to be their mom because they play with people of other races, religion, and gender regularly without discrimination.

 

And, FWIW, the youth in question was not black.

[bibiche]

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2014/03/teaching_tolerance_how_white_parents_should_talk_to_their_kids_about_race.html

https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/08/talk-to-kids-about-race/

https://qz.com/821200/if-youre-not-talking-about-race-with-your-kid-youre-likely-teaching-her-to-be-racist/

http://nashville.citymomsblog.com/talking-mlk-race-diversity-kids-important/

 

etc. Google is your friend. Other links for discussing race with children in anti-racism resource thread.

[bibiche]

My children ARE privileged. They live in a good home with a family who loves them. They have enough food to eat. They have a bed to sleep on. And occasionally they get to come with me to Target and pick something from the dollar spot.

 

We have talked plenty of treating everyone with respect and this is definitely NOT the first time my kids have had discussions about race with me. Far from it.

 

And I'm privileged to be their mom because they play with people of other races, religion, and gender regularly without discrimination.

 

And, FWIW, the youth in question was not black.

 

In an ideal world race won't be important. But we are not there. And your topic is "This is how we should all approach the race question."  But it isn't how we should approach issues of race.  Because again, we are not there yet. "Color-blindness" doesn't help and in fact hurts.

[blondeviolin]

Tell me how race wouldn't matter in an ideal world and yet him not caring one iota whether you look different is not a step towards that? Isn't the complaint that others get treated differently because of how they look or their race? I should be teaching him to champion the rights of all. I should be teaching him to serve the needy and protect/serve a person because he is a compassionate person who sees injustice. If we had a world full of kids like that, race wouldn't matter.

 

When he was two and cried out, "Mom! Those people have chocolate skin!" we had a very frank discussion about skin differences that mirrors very much the discussion in your first link. We've had other similar discussions. Our neighborhood is definitely not homogenous and he sees me interacting with parents on all levels.

 

It's not his fault he was born a white, cisgender, male. It would be my fault if I didn't teach him to use his privilege for good.

 

Pride goes both ways.

 

*edited for subject-verb agreement because grammar.

Edited September 27, 2017 by blondeviolin

[momacacia]

I think that's really beautiful of your 6yo, Blondeviolin. â¤

[Guest]

I think you handled it beautifully. Melanin count doesn't change the soul of a person and shouldn't change how we treat them. And yes, I consider when my kids show curiosity but no animosity on issues of ethnicity to be a step in the right direction too. All these people are made in God's image and should be treated with the same dignity and respect we ourselves would want.

[Halftime Hope]

Blonde violin, I too think your little guy gave a fantastic, age appropriate answer.  I'm sure that as time goes on, you'll have or make opportunities for more complex and nuanced discussions. Carry on, thoughtful mama.

 

For Bibiche:   several questions, since you just slapped Blondeviolin with a rolled up "privilege card."  (God help us, it took less than a day for you (or someone else who thinks similarly) to do it, just when someone on the other "white privilege" thread said they never heard of the term being used as a weapon. We rest our case.)

 

1) By what right do *you* get to determine that his answer was the wrong one? 

 

2) Please, make an argument and convince me that the first thing we should do is to mentally sort and label people by their skin color, as opposed to perceiving them first as people, then as whatever is next in importance given the context, and then letting the skin color/race category fall into place wherever it properly lands.  (Example, if someone asked me who Serena Williams was, her race might come fifth in the first five identifying items that came to mind about her, and I know *precious little* about tennis, so it's not as though I can extol her prodigious talent.)

 

3) What do you think the correct six-year-old-sized answer should have been? 

 

3) Finally, let's say we go with whatever answer you specified.  What if the person whose skin-color has just been assessed doesn't want to be labeled with a color? What if they don't self-identify as whatever Bibiche told us to label them? (Some people don't want to be identified primarily by their skin-color, and that's a pretty offensive hole to dig oneself out of IRL, if one falls in.)  

 

 

ETA:  I purposely changed the pronoun, and deleted the sarcasm note.  I'm generally annoyed about changes in pronoun usage and other language changes, too, but that shouldn't cloud the point I was trying to make.  I apologize and corrected it for clarity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Halftime Hope

[Tanaqui]

So, there's lots of different race questions, and lots of answers to them.

 

Race ISN'T just skin color, or skin color + discrimination. Race is mixed up with ethnicity and culture in all sorts of interesting ways. When you say things like "People are just people", what it sounds like is "I don't think that people have had different experiences from me, or that this should have affected how they see the world". A lot of people go a step further - they don't want to take the time to learn about other people, they just want to assume "people are people" and never have to think about it.

[....]

Some people do find it offensive to be told they are 'just people!' It sort of erases the fact that as people of color, their experience of being 'just a person!' is different to ours. A couple of my kids feel this way. I mean, they're not gonna come after a 6yr old and tell him off, never! but with adults, yeah, they're not fans of the color blind approach. 

 

I hear what you're saying, but I guess it depends on the person.  We're a multi-racial family and dh does not like race brought up at all outside of our family (probably from a lifetime of hearing "what country are you from?").  

 

We had an issue a couple of weeks ago at an amusement park, so this is a sensitive topic in our household right now.  Dh let our 14 yro son go on a ride by himself.  While he was waiting, one of the employees started harassing him about his ethnicity.  He started off with the, "What are you?" (which is just rude) and after a number of rude and inappropriate questions, it just turned into, "Why does your terrorist country want to bomb us??"  I mean, the guy wouldn't leave him alone.  And ds was practically in tears when he rejoined us.   All he wanted to do was ride the Superman, not explain his entire ethnic background, the military situation at the DMZ and his stance on allegiance to our country to a prying stranger.  

 

Anyway, I'm tired and probably rambling, but what I'm trying to say is - dh just prefers people not bring it up (unless it's a respectful conversation, I guess).  But, harassment is ridiculous.  I don't know what some people are thinking sometimes.   

 

And I probably shouldn't post when I'm exhausted.  I'm probably not making any sense.    

[Carol in Cal.]

. "Color-blindness" doesn't help and in fact hurts.

 

Color blindness can hurt, but it is not true that it does not help.  It is a TON better than what preceded it, which should be recognized, and also it is where we should head ultimately, which doesn't mean that it should be claimed before we get there.  In the meantime, no skin tone, ethnicity, or racial descriptor should under any circumstances be regarded or used as an epithet.

 

[Liz CA]

So, there's lots of different race questions, and lots of answers to them.

 

Race ISN'T just skin color, or skin color + discrimination. Race is mixed up with ethnicity and culture in all sorts of interesting ways. When you say things like "People are just people", what it sounds like is "I don't think that people have had different experiences from me, or that this should have affected how they see the world". A lot of people go a step further - they don't want to take the time to learn about other people, they just want to assume "people are people" and never have to think about it.

 

But...everyone has different experiences than I do / did. People from the same ancestry as I am (Scandinavian / Eastern European) still have other experiences. Life can be easier for some and harder for others at different times.

Even Caucasians whose cultural background may be different than mine, can have similar experiences / perspectives or very different from mine.

Think of generational differences. None of us - no matter what ethnicity / color / race will ever understand what people went through during WWII. Their experiences are vastly different from ours. Over my lifetime, I have learned a lot about other cultures, partly from having lived in other places but also from having friends / extended family who grew up in different corners of the world with different traditions, perspectives, etc. I still don't really see why some take offense to the "people are people" approach as long as we acknowledge that all of us have different experiences / cultures but at the core we are indeed all people.

 

One of my best friends is "different" from me in color / ethnicity / where she and I grew up / even what our native languages are but we can have coffee together and laugh and moan about the same things. We are both people, mothers, daughters, women.

 

ETA: Just to clarify, I am referring to the "people are people" controversy only. I am not disputing that discrimination is happening all over the globe.

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Liz CA

[Liz CA]

No, you make sense. One of my kids would prefer the 'people are people, back off' approach too. 

 

I'm sorry your family had that experience; that's awful. 

 

There's definitely two ways to look at the 'people are people' thing. One is just - hey, everyone deserves a little dignity 'cos we're all human! The other is yeah, we are, but our experiences are sadly different because of our skin or ethnic background. Two sides, same coin ?

 

Idk. I just repeated in this thread what my kids have expressed. 

 

I am with your kid on this one.

I do get the "yeah but our experience is different because of our skin..." I am not disputing that some people have experienced horrible treatment but it's not just that some people's experience is different because of skin color / ethnicity. I would think it could also be because of who your parents were /are (parenting as best they could versus neglectful or abusive), relative financial stability versus poverty, your geographic location, opportunities that presented themselves to some but not to others and not strictly because of color / ethnicity, etc.

[nrg]

This is probably not how we should approach the race question in all its pain and history and ugliness and complexity.

 

It is, however, how we should approach one another in passing in the store. We are, in this situation, all people and all deserve to be treated with respect, grace, and courtesy. Someone's appearance, ethnicity, race, gender, etc. does not alter who WE are and how we treat them. A little boy standing in the aisle is not in the way because of his race, and that was the implication in the OP's story, based on the comment of the other person. As we move through our busy days, with our superficial relationships with strangers, this is how we address the race question. We don't.  For these times, we are humans together. Rubbing along. Holding each other up.

 

This is no answer to the bigger issue, but it is a way of being together on the surface.

[DawnM]

I hear what you're saying, but I guess it depends on the person.  We're a multi-racial family and dh does not like race brought up at all outside of our family (probably from a lifetime of hearing "what country are you from?").  

 

We had an issue a couple of weeks ago at an amusement park, so this is a sensitive topic in our household right now.  Dh let our 14 yro son go on a ride by himself.  While he was waiting, one of the employees started harassing him about his ethnicity.  He started off with the, "What are you?" (which is just rude) and after a number of rude and inappropriate questions, it just turned into, "Why does your terrorist country want to bomb us??"  I mean, the guy wouldn't leave him alone.  And ds was practically in tears when he rejoined us.   All he wanted to do was ride the Superman, not explain his entire ethnic background, the military situation at the DMZ and his stance on allegiance to our country to a prying stranger.  

 

Anyway, I'm tired and probably rambling, but what I'm trying to say is - dh just prefers people not bring it up (unless it's a respectful conversation, I guess).  But, harassment is ridiculous.  I don't know what some people are thinking sometimes.   

 

And I probably shouldn't post when I'm exhausted.  I'm probably not making any sense.    

 

I sure hope you reported that, or are going to do a write up.  And I hope you got his name to make the report!  

[DawnM]

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2014/03/teaching_tolerance_how_white_parents_should_talk_to_their_kids_about_race.html

https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/08/talk-to-kids-about-race/

https://qz.com/821200/if-youre-not-talking-about-race-with-your-kid-youre-likely-teaching-her-to-be-racist/

http://nashville.citymomsblog.com/talking-mlk-race-diversity-kids-important/

 

etc. Google is your friend. Other links for discussing race with children in anti-racism resource thread.

 

That is just rude.  I am quite sure she knows how to google.  You don't need to make snarky comments.

 

What her son said is absolutely appropriate for a 6 year old to say.  Her son is SIX!

[Halftime Hope]

Thank you to the rest of the posters; your thoughts have helped clarify two complementary points of view, and you've expressed beautifully what I continued to mull over overnight, something I couldn't have articulated nearly as well.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Halftime Hope

[Joules]

My son was about that age (maybe 4 or 5), when we first talked about MLK day.  I talked about white people treating black people differently in an age appropriate way.  He hadn't really seen that but was still confused.  He said, "Mommy, people aren't black and white.  They are all just different shades of brown." and showed me the crayons to prove it.  I so wish we could somehow all transform to that little kid innocence, lose our history, and make those words true!  But we have to deal with the world that we have been dealt :-(

[Pawz4me]

I hear what you're saying, but I guess it depends on the person.    

 

I think issues arise when one group (any group) of people decides that they get to be the arbiters of what is/isn't acceptable for everyone else in that (very large) group.

 

I see the same thing in the autism community with person first language. You (generic) get to choose how you want to be addressed/what term you want to use for the condition. You do NOT get to dictate my son's preferred term. You just don't. Nor should you attempt to correct me when I use his preferred term. I think the same is true for people who think/don't think color blindness is helpful.

 

The people who assume and presume their way is the way everyone should approach contentious issues aren't helping anything. They're just making matters worse.

[bibiche]

*sigh* I wasn't trying to be rude or criticize a small child. I would love nothing more than to live in a world without racial prejudice. I was trying to point out that there are issues with the idea of colorblindness that are most often invisible to its proponents.

 

So, again, and I probably should have expressed it more eloquently, OP, what your child expressed is wonderful and ideal, but I disagree that at this time "This is how we should all approach the race question."

[Barb_]

The post title was problematic. If you want to begin a discussion, particularly on a sensitive topic, "This is how X should be done" probably isn't the best opening.

[ktgrok]

She didn't sy the kid was wrong, she said it isn't how we should ALL approach race issues. Because to pretend we don't see race is to pretend we don't see that others have had a harder time in some ways, or are at a disadvantage in some ways. 

 

Example:

 

It would be great to say "I don't even see disabilities, I treat everyone the same." Right until there is no ramp for the person in the wheelchair, because hey, lets treat everyone the same, and I'm using the stairs, so they should use the stairs too!  The only way to know to put a ramp in is to acknowledge we are NOT all the same as far as disabilities, and take that into account and then make a plan to deal with it. 

Same with racism, we need to acknowledge that there are more roadblocks put in front of people of color, and then figure out a way to change that, work around it, whatever. 

 

That's maybe not the job of a six year old. I love the innocence there. But it is the job of adults i our society, and that is why this isn't how we ALL should approach racial issues. Fine for a kid, but not for an adult at this point. 

 

Make sense?

[marbel]

OP, I liked what your child said.  This is how my kids looked at it when they were that age.

 

Of course, as they get older, the conversation changes.  All those chastising the OP for her somewhat inelegant post title, can you give her a break?   Way to pick apart a nice story and make someone wish they had never posted.  

[SKL]

No, you make sense. One of my kids would prefer the 'people are people, back off' approach too. 

 

I'm sorry your family had that experience; that's awful. 

 

There's definitely two ways to look at the 'people are people' thing. One is just - hey, everyone deserves a little dignity 'cos we're all human! The other is yeah, we are, but our experiences are sadly different because of our skin or ethnic background. Two sides, same coin ?

 

Idk. I just repeated in this thread what my kids have expressed. 

 

To the bold: 

 

Sadly in some ways, wonderfully in other ways.

 

In my observation, people go through different times when they would prefer color-blindness and other times when they would not.

 

[Barb_]

OP, I liked what your child said. This is how my kids looked at it when they were that age.

 

Of course, as they get older, the conversation changes. All those chastising the OP for her somewhat inelegant post title, can you give her a break? Way to pick apart a nice story and make someone wish they had never posted.

I think that's the point. The nice story would have been better without the finger wagging title. People weren't responding to the story; they were responding to the premise.

[marbel]

I think that's the point. The nice story would have been better without the finger wagging title. People weren't responding to the story; they were responding to the premise.

 

See, I didn't read it as finger-wagging.  I read it as "wow, this was cool, I'm pleased with how my kid responded to this."   Even if the title seemed like finger-wagging, couldn't people see beyond that once they read the actual post?

Edited September 27, 2017 by marbel

[meganrussell]

I just want to add a funny little story. Earlier this year, my nephew brought home a picture of Martin Luther King, Jr. that he had colored at school. He had colored MLK every color of the rainbow. His mom told him she loved how colorful he had colored him. My nephew looked at her and said, "Well, the teacher told us he was a man of color."

 

:-)

[kroe1]

Why is it that the more people throw out the race card, the more I am reminded of melatonin counts? I look around at the local gas station this morning as I read this post. There are all kinds of people sitting around eating breakfast together. (A really cool gas station with gourmet food.). No one seems to recognize any physical features of anyone that I could tell. So everyone who keeps telling me there is a race card to pull, let me take you back a few decades. Until then, I am going to understand that the race card sells newspapers and keeps people in unrest which sells more newspapers. The more we stay in unrest, the more children learn to pull a race card. I would venture to say that people in poverty, people obese, the elderly, homeless, the handicapped, those wearing certain religious articles, those passed out behind the wheel of a car, and those scratching their buttocks get more discrimination, in today's America. But, I am not sure anyone is keeping any statistics on such. At least I have never looked for any.

[Cindy in FL.]

I look at all people first and foremost as being made in the image of God and therefore inherently worthy of dignity and respect. If lumping everyone together in that one category, foundationally, is offensive then so be it.

 

Some people do find it offensive to be told they are 'just people!' It sort of erases the fact that as people of color, their experience of being 'just a person!' is different to ours. A couple of my kids feel this way. I mean, they're not gonna come after a 6yr old and tell him off, never! but with adults, yeah, they're not fans of the color blind approach.

[Barb_]

...those passed out behind the wheel of a car, and those scratching their buttocks get more discrimination, in today's America. But, I am not sure anyone is keeping any statistics on such. At least I have never looked for any.

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by emzhengjiu
personal attack

[Tanaqui]

I would venture to say that people in poverty, people obese, the elderly, homeless, the handicapped, those wearing certain religious articles, those passed out behind the wheel of a car, and those scratching their buttocks get more discrimination, in today's America.

 

Certain racial groups are more likely to be impoverished and/or members of minority religions (particularly those that require special religious clothing) than others. This is a fact. They're also more likely to suffer from certain disabilities.

 

[Pawz4me]

I think maybe part of the problem is whether we're looking at the issue up close and personal or on a country/global scale? Micro versus macro.

 

If I'm standing in line at Walmart chit chatting with the cashier and the lady behind me (let's say one or both are POC) then I think colorblindness is a good thing. How could it be bad in that instance? (I'm asking that sincerely, if anyone thinks it is bad I'd like to understand why.)

 

But for the big picture -- I can certainly see and understand the argument that colorblindness is a bad thing.

 

 

[Tanaqui]

If I'm standing in line at Walmart chit chatting with the cashier and the lady behind me (let's say one or both are POC) then I think colorblindness is a good thing. How could it be bad in that instance? (I'm asking that sincerely, if anyone thinks it is bad I'd like to understand why.)

 

I suppose it depends on what you're talking about! If I'm talking with them and the subject of racism comes up (as it does) then it's probably best for me not to put on my sanctimonious face* and go "Well, I want you to know that I am not like that, I just see you as a person! Really, I think talking about all this makes it worse!"

 

But maybe you all engage in different forms of waiting-on-line chitchat than I do.

 

* I have a great sanctimonious face.

[Pawz4me]

I suppose it depends on what you're talking about! If I'm talking with them and the subject of racism comes up (as it does) then it's probably best for me not to put on my sanctimonious face* and go "Well, I want you to know that I am not like that, I just see you as a person! Really, I think talking about all this makes it worse!"

 

But maybe you all engage in different forms of waiting-on-line chitchat than I do.

 

* I have a great sanctimonious face.

 

I'm talking more about basic chit chat. For example, the last time I was at Walmart the cashier, the couple in front of me and I had a conversation about what we liked/didn't like about flying. Just general chit chat, really.

 

(ETA: I'm in the south. So, yeah. We talk. ;))

Edited September 27, 2017 by Pawz4me

[Tanaqui]

You and I have different ideas about basic chitchat, then, because these conversations aren't at all unusual around here. (And it's not just me! They happen even when I'm not participating in them at all and don't know the people talking!)

 

(New Yorkers talk too. Boy, do we ever.)

Edited September 27, 2017 by Tanaqui

[blondeviolin]

When I posted that we should all approach race this way, I wasn't wagging my finger at anyone. Everyone should treat others with respect regardless of their color and socioeconomic status. If we all saw people as my son does, we wouldn't have any bias or privilege. Laws wouldn't be skewed in one direction or another. We would be "of one heart and one mind."

 

Do I believe we're there yet? No. But I do believe it's possible.

[importswim]

Why is it that the more people throw out the race card, the more I am reminded of melatonin counts? I look around at the local gas station this morning as I read this post. There are all kinds of people sitting around eating breakfast together. (A really cool gas station with gourmet food.). No one seems to recognize any physical features of anyone that I could tell. So everyone who keeps telling me there is a race card to pull, let me take you back a few decades. Until then, I am going to understand that the race card sells newspapers and keeps people in unrest which sells more newspapers. The more we stay in unrest, the more children learn to pull a race card. I would venture to say that people in poverty, people obese, the elderly, homeless, the handicapped, those wearing certain religious articles, those passed out behind the wheel of a car, and those scratching their buttocks get more discrimination, in today's America. But, I am not sure anyone is keeping any statistics on such. At least I have never looked for any.

 

 

I am obese and I wear certain religious articles. Both of these things are something that I can control/change. We are born with our skin color. Respectfully, I don't think that you can compare the list of things that you wrote with discrimination against race. Racial discrimination has much more of a history and a hatred behind it.

 

Have I been "discriminated against" because I'm obese - certainly. I haven't ever been discriminated against because of wearing religious articles. 

 

I think it is very hard for those of us who have never received personal attacks about our race/skin color to understand exactly how much discrimination actually goes on. One of my good friends is white and married a black man. Just from what I've seen that they have to go through today in America, I am appalled. I once thought that racism was a thing of the past in America. I was privileged to think so because I'm white. I was so incredibly wrong.

[Tanaqui]

If we all saw people as my son does, we wouldn't have any bias or privilege. Laws wouldn't be skewed in one direction or another. We would be "of one heart and one mind."

 

This is just not true.

 

Here's an example of a discriminatory "colorblind" rule - students attending XYZ school cannot have "gang" hairstyles like cornrows or dreadlocks. Translation? Common hairstyles for African-American children and youths are "gang" hairstyles, they should treat their hair so it acts more like white person hair.

[AHASRADA]

This reminds me of the 2 kindergarten boys (1 white, 1 black) who decided to get the same haircut so their teacher couldn't tell them apart. They were so excited about tricking her, lol!

 

My daughter's best friend in religion class is of Southeast Asian (India/Pakistan) descent. They love it when they both show up to class in the same dress, etc. One day on our way home my daughter (age 6) said, "She was wearing the same dress! We're twins...except for skin tone!"

 

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

[Lady Florida.]

She didn't sy the kid was wrong, she said it isn't how we should ALL approach race issues. Because to pretend we don't see race is to pretend we don't see that others have had a harder time in some ways, or are at a disadvantage in some ways. 

 

 

 

Unfortunately the bolded is exactly what a lot of people want to do - pretend not to see the problems. I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of having that attitude but it IS an overall attitude of white people (and I'm white) in the U.S.

[Carol in Cal.]

This reminds me of the 2 kindergarten boys (1 white, 1 black) who decided to get the same haircut so their teacher couldn't tell them apart. They were so excited about tricking her, lol!

 

 

 

When I first tried to teach my daughter about MLK day, she was about 5, and she couldn't get the concept of who was African American.  We went through examples among her friends.  She couldn't make sense out of it.  I could see why, really.  She has friends whose families are from India who have much darker skin than her African American friends do.

[Tanaqui]

Well, race in America has little to do with skin color, per se, and a lot to do with a combination of skin color, facial features, hair texture, and the legacy of one-drop laws.

[Guest]

I think that you're doing a great job of raising your son, and he sounds like a sweet, kind, non-hateful little dude.

 

We will only come to a place of peaceful coexistance in this country when ALL people, and children, are called upon to reflect upon their own prejudices and bigotries, and work to root them out of their hearts and minds.

[blondeviolin]

This is just not true.

 

Here's an example of a discriminatory "colorblind" rule - students attending XYZ school cannot have "gang" hairstyles like cornrows or dreadlocks. Translation? Common hairstyles for African-American children and youths are "gang" hairstyles, they should treat their hair so it acts more like white person hair.

Uh. You sort of are proving my point. If we all saw people for being people who would care what color, shape, style hair each person has? If the administrators of school XYZ saw people as a child does, they wouldn't care whether a person's hair was short, long, corn rows, dreads, or green. In fact, my daughter's friends across the street just dyed her hair green and all of my kids exclaimed it to be "cool!"

[Lanny]

I have lived in Colombia for 22 1/2 years. In the part of Colombia where we live (in Cali in S.W. Colombia)  the majority of the people are Black. There is to my knowledge, very little racism here. There is to my knowledge, little, if any, Antisemitism here. I keep my fingers crossed, when people I know who are not White go to the USA and hope they will not be victims of Racism.  On the other hand, I was contacted by a Black man (an Educator in CA) who was interested in coming here.  I do not know what the proper words to use are, but I did not want him to come here if he would have the same "defenses" up as he would in the USA.  Here, people would treat him decently and his skin color wouldn't be a factor and he would not be a victim of Racism.  I  do not have the words to express what I am trying to get across here. It is a local problem, in the USA, and not a problem in Latin America.  I once asked a Mexican man, on a flight in Mexico, why he thought there was so much less Racism there than in the USA.  His response was that possibly it is because almost everyone goes to the same church.  That was many years ago. Possibly that is part of it.  The other is history and one must never forget history.  

[Sneezyone]

I have lived in Colombia for 22 1/2 years. In the part of Colombia where we live (in Cali in S.W. Colombia)  the majority of the people are Black. There is to my knowledge, very little racism here. There is to my knowledge, little, if any, Antisemitism here. I keep my fingers crossed, when people I know who are not White go to the USA and hope they will not be victims of Racism.  On the other hand, I was contacted by a Black man (an Educator in CA) who was interested in coming here.  I do not know what the proper words to use are, but I did not want him to come here if he would have the same "defenses" up as he would in the USA.  Here, people would treat him decently and his skin color wouldn't be a factor and he would not be a victim of Racism.  I  do not have the words to express what I am trying to get across here. It is a local problem, in the USA, and not a problem in Latin America.  I once asked a Mexican man, on a flight in Mexico, why he thought there was so much less Racism there than in the USA.  His response was that possibly it is because almost everyone goes to the same church.  That was many years ago. Possibly that is part of it.  The other is history and one must never forget history.  

 

Did it ever occur to you that escaping those CA issues might be what he was after? That is the primary reason why my family prefers HI and overseas locations to stateside assignments. I have also had several conversations with other black people in HI who made the same choice for the same reasons. People don't usually cling to that baggage like a badge of honor, they want to be able to release it.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Sneezyone

[poppy]

I think you handled it beautifully. Melanin count doesn't change the soul of a person and shouldn't change how we treat them. And yes, I consider when my kids show curiosity but no animosity on issues of ethnicity to be a step in the right direction too. All these people are made in God's image and should be treated with the same dignity and respect we ourselves would want.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by emzhengjiu
personal attack

[maize]

That's very big of you, to declare everyone should be treated with respect. I mean c'mon. That is baseline human, not a goal.

In-group/out-group bias is baseline human.

 

Skin color is an obvious and natural grouping mechanism.

 

So...if we want to make it NOT a issue...we do actually have to actively work on it. Which means it needs to be a goal.

 

I don't think we do any good by denying that feelings of fear and distrust of those we perceive as being not like us are 100% human and 100% normal.

 

I think culture has great potential for overcoming many things that are innate and normal, but it does take conscious effort.

[Anne]

That's very big of you, to declare everyone should be treated with respect. I mean c'mon. That is baseline human, not a goal.

But isn't that the whole point - that people DON'T treat others with respect???? I don't understand your snark here.

 

Anne