Question for native speakers of American English

[heartlikealion]

I say them both, depending on the sentence. I think my go-to sounds like "day." And that's the name of the kid in Goonies.

[La Condessa]

I use day-ta for multiple and da-ta for singular. So, more often day-ta in context, but if I were discussing a particular piece of data I would say da-ta.

[Mrs. Y]

Back in the day (80s) I think most people rhymed it with sat. Overtime that seems outdated and most people I know rhyme it with day.

[displace]

Anyone else thinking this discussion would only take place here?

[LucyStoner]

I use them interchangeably.

 

I am not seeing any rhyme or reason to which I use when.

[LucyStoner]

Anyone else thinking this discussion would only take place here?

I actually just had this discussion with some people over drinks. :P

[SparklyUnicorn]

Apparently this is a New England thing because DH (grew up in the Mid-Atlantic) just laughed when I asked him about it.

 

It's /æ/ as in "apple", "agriculture", "addition", etc.

 

I'm from New England and I don't say it like that.

[Word Nerd]

Apparently this is a New England thing because DH (grew up in the Mid-Atlantic) just laughed when I asked him about it.

 

It's /æ/ as in "apple", "agriculture", "addition", etc.

The confusion was because I would say "dah" has the same sound as in ha or jaw, not cat or sat.

 

ETA: Like this (click the sound icon to hear the M-W pronunciation): https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dah

Edited May 20, 2017 by Word Nerd

[SparklyUnicorn]

The confusion was because I would say "dah" has the same sound as in ha or jaw, not cat or sat.

 

Huh...that's different.

[SamanthaCarter]

Both, but I think Day-ta comes a little more naturally for me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lanny]

OP after you finish this Poll, consider running one on the word "Aunt".  I pronounce that like "ant".  I had a girlfriend (airline hostess) from CT who pronounced it like "ont".  Which is correct for native speakers of American English?

[maize]

OP after you finish this Poll, consider running one on the word "Aunt". I pronounce that like "ant". I had a girlfriend (airline hostess) from CT who pronounced it like "ont". Which is correct for native speakers of American English?

Both are correct, they are just regional variations.

[maize]

I use day-ta for multiple and da-ta for singular. So, more often day-ta in context, but if I were discussing a particular piece of data I would say da-ta.

But the singular is datum!

 

OK, I've only ever actually used that in reference to the reference point for a site grid on an archaeological excavation.

Edited May 20, 2017 by maize

[Guest]

Exactly, Maize.

[PuddleJumper1]

Both. Aren't I helpful? :D

Me too. Glad I'm not the only one :)

[Word Nerd]

Huh...that's different.

How do you pronounce ah or hah?

[Matryoshka]

How do you pronounce ah or hah?

 

For me, ah and hah sound different than aw or haw, but they are much closer to each other than the a in cat or apple which is another thing entirely.

 

For me, aw and short o are the exact same sound (Don and Dawn same pronunciation).  

[Word Nerd]

For me, ah and hah sound different than aw or haw, but they are much closer to each other than the a in cat or apple which is another thing entirely.

 

For me, aw and short o are the exact same sound (Don and Dawn same pronunciation).

Don/dawn and aw/ah rhyme the way I say them.

[Matryoshka]

Don/dawn and aw/ah rhyme the way I say them.

 

It's close for me, but not identical.  It's like for aw I round my lips a bit more - if I said 'awwww' at the doctor's instead of 'ahhhh', he'd have a harder time getting the tongue depressor in. ;).   Jaw and hah definitely are different.  

 

If I were using a Boston accent (which I apparently do a bit for vowels, but not for the 'r' examples here - I am rhotic :) - unless I start talking with someone with a really strong accent, then I have an unconscious tendency to slip towards it)

 

Pahk the cah in Hahvahd Yahd is NOT the same as Pawk the caw in Hawvawd Yawd.  In fact, the latter would sound like I'm trying to imitate a bad British accent.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Matryoshka

[KathyBC]

I figure if it was supposed to have a short vowel sound it would be spelled "datta". Generally speaking, two vowels separated by a single consonant indicates the first vowel says a long sound, like "dayta".

Depends where you put the syllable break: da-ta or dat-a

[gardenmom5]

And he even

who uses the short a..

 

that was ONLY in regards to his name - he never said dahta was wrong in other situations.

[Joules]

Both and I actually am a data scientist.

[RootAnn]

I had to pick 'other' because while I use the short vowel sound, I don't break the word into syllables the way the second option lists it.

 

It is da (short sound as in apple)-tah (as in father). 

 

I do know Data, the Star Trek guy, but don't generally say it that way.

[poppy]

that was ONLY in regards to his name - he never said dahta was wrong in other situations.

 

He was not programmed to correct peers? But, why would his name have a long a if that wasn't the standard pronunciation?  AND the kid in The Goonies too? I  do think it's  standard pronunciation.  But I wouldn't correct a person who said dah-tah, of course.  Just like I don't correct people who say the T in often (Even thought they don't say "The recipe says you soFTen the butter"....)

 

ON the other hand..... it was Patrick Stewart's influence that cemented the Star Trek pronunciation of the word.

[maize]

He was not programmed to correct peers? But, why would his name have a long a if that wasn't the standard pronunciation? AND the kid in The Goonies too? I do think it's standard pronunciation. But I wouldn't correct a person who said dah-tah, of course. Just like I don't correct people who say the T in often (Even thought they don't say "The recipe says you soFTen the butter"....)

 

ON the other hand..... it was Patrick Stewart's influence that cemented the Star Trek pronunciation of the word.

Words can have more than one "standard" pronunciation. Many names have alternate pronunciations but most people have a preferred pronunciation for their own name. Anna with a short a may correct people who pronounce her name as Ahn-na, or Eva with a long E may correct someone who says Ay-va. And vice versa. Doesn't mean the other pronunciation would be wrong in a different context.

[MistyMountain]

Data is one of those words I have heard said both ways pretty equally and I could say it either way with no rhyme or reason. Words with two syllables with only one consonant in between would usually say the long a sound but there are exceptions.

 

As far as the ah sound of a. To me there are 5 sounds an A can make short a as in cat, long a as in rain, aw as in law, u which is the swa sound in an unaccented syllable like in the second sound if data or America and short o like wander. Ah says short o as in open up and ah and it definitely sounds different then aw. I know there is a part of the country where aw is like an o and Dawn and Don sound the same. It sounds a little strange to hear Dawn a female name to be pronounced like the different male name Don to me though.

Edited May 20, 2017 by MistyMountain

[Tanaqui]

OP after you finish this Poll, consider running one on the word "Aunt".  I pronounce that like "ant".  I had a girlfriend (airline hostess) from CT who pronounced it like "ont".  Which is correct for native speakers of American English?

 

In American English, both pronunciations are correct... although this is highly regional. When it comes to the two pronunciations of data (which are also both correct), I suspect that they're widespread throughout the nation and not just to certain dialects.

 

And I wasn't going to jump in on my own thread, but since I did, I think saying "Well, it's spelled this way" is disingenuous. Speech is primary. In England, they say "herb" with a pronounced /h/, but it's not like they're consciously thinking "It's got an h in it", any more than Americans are consciously thinking "it comes from French, so the h is silent". No, we just say it the way we've always heard it (or, in America, the way our parents corrected us when we learned it from reading.) Or somebody upthread mentioned the word "often". We don't sit and think "The t is silent in this word" nor "I know we spell this word o-f-t-e-n", we just say it the way the people around us say it, or the way we heard it said when we were children.

 

As for the Don/Dawn merger which has been mentioned just recently (and why do all linguistics conversations ultimately become about the Don/Dawn merger?), the easiest way to think of the distinction between the two vowels is this. In words like Dawn, caught, or law, those of us without the merger round our lips, the same way we do when saying the vowel in low or loo. (We also move our tongue slightly further back in the mouth, but that's harder to visualize. Just rounding the lips is close enough for the rest of you to get an approximation.)

[TechWife]

I voted that it rhymes with say. But my husband says it rhyming with sat. I have picked up his pronunciation and tend to only use mine when I am in my hometown. If it makes a difference, I am from the southeastern part of the country and he is from the midwest. We live in the southeast. 

 

 

[Butter]

Other: Both.

 

So I'm no help.

[gardenmom5]

He was not programmed to correct peers? But, why would his name have a long a if that wasn't the standard pronunciation?  AND the kid in The Goonies too? I  do think it's  standard pronunciation.  But I wouldn't correct a person who said dah-tah, of course.  Just like I don't correct people who say the T in often (Even thought they don't say "The recipe says you soFTen the butter"....)

 

 

I use both,  both pronunciations are correct.  depends upon context, tense, etc.

 

data's name was pronounced "date - ah".  he corrected her pronunciation of *his name*.   when asked what difference it made:  "one is my name.  the other is not." (iow: not *his name")  he never said "dahta" wasn't a correct pronunciation.

 

I admit I fail to understand what a teenybopper movie has to do with correct pronunciation - or a british actor commenting upon american english.

[gardenmom5]

in regards to "often" (the orign word pronounced the "t")   https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/correct-pronunciation-of-often

 

both pronunciations are used.  with a silent "t" or a pronounced "t".

 

http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2007/07/often.html

[Chelli]

Or somebody upthread mentioned the word "often". We don't sit and think "The t is silent in this word" nor "I know we spell this word o-f-t-e-n", we just say it the way the people around us say it, or the way we heard it said when we were children.

I say the t in often. Do people not say it? I've never noticed before.

[poppy]

I use both, both pronunciations are correct. depends upon context, tense, etc.

 

data's name was pronounced "date - ah". he corrected her pronunciation of *his name*. when asked what difference it made: "one is my name. the other is not." (iow: not *his name") he never said "dahta" wasn't a correct pronunciation.

 

I admit I fail to understand what a teenybopper movie has to do with correct pronunciation - or a british actor commenting upon american english.

Because popular culture decides what's standard , and those are pop culture touchstones that we're all familiar with.

 

Obviously both are correct language is fluid yadda yadda. I'm just saying I feel one pronunciation is standard while the other is somewhat less favored, and the poll seems to agree.

[Butter]

I say the t in often. Do people not say it? I've never noticed before.

 

Yes.  It is pretty location specific so if you haven't noticed it's probably because everyone where you live pronounces it, too.  A few months ago we were doing silent letters in Spelling You See and often (as well as a couple other words) had silent letters indicated.  We definitely pronounce the t in often here so of course my kids did not mark that as silent (and I marked the answer key to get rid of that silent letter since for us it is not).  I got curious and asked on Facebook about pronunciation of certain words and it was about half and half and very dependent on where people live.

[Tanaqui]

I say the t in often. Do people not say it? I've never noticed before.

 

Not only do many people not say it, but in the past it was rather a shibboleth and pronouncing the t was considered shockingly nonstandard.

[gardenmom5]

Because popular culture decides what's standard , and those are pop culture touchstones that we're all familiar with.

 

Obviously both are correct language is fluid yadda yadda. I'm just saying I feel one pronunciation is standard while the other is somewhat less favored, and the poll seems to agree.

 

Um, no, we're not "all" familiar with them.

for starters - I've never even seen goonies - or do I have a desire to see it.

 

and my idea of a good movie - are from decades ago.

[maize]

Yes. It is pretty location specific so if you haven't noticed it's probably because everyone where you live pronounces it, too. A few months ago we were doing silent letters in Spelling You See and often (as well as a couple other words) had silent letters indicated. We definitely pronounce the t in often here so of course my kids did not mark that as silent (and I marked the answer key to get rid of that silent letter since for us it is not). I got curious and asked on Facebook about pronunciation of certain words and it was about half and half and very dependent on where people live.

We also have a tendency to hear words the way we expect to hear them--so someone may be pronouncing something a bit differently and we never notice. The sounds going in our ears get processed in our brains to the pronunciation we expect.

[Laura in CA]

"other" = both, depending on my mood

 

I haven't read any replies. I have spent about 20 years on each (U.S.) coast, and 10 years overseas, so my accent is a real mishmash ...

 

 

 

[DawnM]

I voted "that" and "sat" but that isn't 100% correct.  I use them interchangeably, and I have no good reason why.

[RootAnn]

for starters - I've never even seen goonies - or do I have a desire to see it.

 

and my idea of a good movie - are from decades ago.

 

:lol:  Goonies came out in 1985, I think. 2017-1985 = 32 = (3) "decades ago"

 

:leaving:

Edited May 20, 2017 by RootAnn

[gardenmom5]

:lol: Goonies came out in 1985, I think. 2017-1985 = 32 = (3) "decades ago"

 

:leaving:

My idea of "decades ago". . .is 50, 60. Or even 80 years ago.

 

Considering I had my 2nd child in 85, I'm not surprised I hadn't even heard of a teeny bopper movie.

And 1dd's idea of a movie when she was a teeny bopper . .stared fred astair or gene kelly.

[RootAnn]

My idea of "decades ago". . .is 50, 60. Or even 80 years ago.

 

I understand the feeling, which is why I started with LOL. I often forget that even the '90s were technically "decades ago." For the record, I saw parts of Goonies for the very first time within the past year. We checked it out from the library.

 

:laugh:  Tongue firmly in cheek, I suggest that you shift to using the phrase "more than half a century ago" or "close to a century ago." 

[Guest]

Yes. It is pretty location specific so if you haven't noticed it's probably because everyone where you live pronounces it, too. A few months ago we were doing silent letters in Spelling You See and often (as well as a couple other words) had silent letters indicated. We definitely pronounce the t in often here so of course my kids did not mark that as silent (and I marked the answer key to get rid of that silent letter since for us it is not). I got curious and asked on Facebook about pronunciation of certain words and it was about half and half and very dependent on where people live.

Interesting. I pronounce the "t." Saying it as "offen" sounds lazy to me, like saying "dat" for "that" because the TH sound required too much effort. If I encountered that in curriculum, I would be so confused.

[LMD]

I am not American, I say it with an 'ah' sound like in father. Like 'far' but no hard r sound.

Not helpful, sorry op. hope you win!

[ikslo]

Both.

[poppy]

Um, no, we're not "all" familiar with them.

for starters - I've never even seen goonies - or do I have a desire to see it.

 

and my idea of a good movie - are from decades ago.

 

On a scale of "obscure art film" and blockbuster..... The Goonies is a blockbuster.  People know what it is.  So when someone mentioned it on this thread, people understood the refernce.  Just like if I mentioned Rocky, you'd probably have an image in your mind about it, even  if you've never seen it (and that movie is a decade older). 

 

Also, please you don't start sentences with "um",    I wouldn't do that to you.

[maize]

On a scale of "obscure art film" and blockbuster..... The Goonies is a blockbuster. People know what it is. So when someone mentioned it on this thread, people understood the refernce. Just like if I mentioned Rocky, you'd probably have an image in your mind about it, even if you've never seen it (and that movie is a decade older).

 

Also, please you don't start sentences with "um", I wouldn't do that to you.

I have zero mental image of Goonies. No recollection of having heard of the film before this thread.

 

Can I end a post with "um"? I like ums. They give me time to think. I'm pretty sure I use an embarrasing number of ums when speaking. I wouldn't make a good showing in a presidential candidate debate.

 

Um.

Edited May 21, 2017 by maize

[maize]

OP, I want to know what your bet was.

[poppy]

Interesting. I pronounce the "t." Saying it as "offen" sounds lazy to me, like saying "dat" for "that" because the TH sound required too much effort. If I encountered that in curriculum, I would be so confused.

You think pronouncing the T in often sounds proper?  Huh.  That is a big cultural shift from when I grew up. 

 

Lots of words have a silent T in the middle.    Google gave me this list: apostle, bristle, bustle, castle, fasten, glisten, hustle, jostle, listen,  moisten, mortgage, often*, nestle, rustle, soften*, thistle, trestle, whistle, wrestle.

 

 

According to that website, the * indicates that CAN be pronounced with the T.  So apparently, some people do pronounce the T in soften??

[foxbridgeacademy]

I use both but more often the first choice.  

 

ETA= I'm one of those people that pronounce the 'T' in often but I over pronounce a lot of things, helps me with a weird stutter I do sometimes.

Edited May 21, 2017 by foxbridgeacademy