Christian Homeschoolers and Science

[fairfarmhand]

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Creationist homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

Do you perceive Creationist homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?

 

Do you feel that many CreAtionists feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

What are the results of Creationist homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

Any other thoughts on this concept?

 

I'll share my thoughts in a bit but I'd love to give some time for discussion to start/.

 

 

Please please please do not wreck my thread. Be kind! Be polite!

Edited March 27, 2017 by fairfarmhand

[maize]

I don't think you can lump "Christian homeschoolers" together as a group on this.

 

There is acertain segment of Christian folks who take an anti-evolution approach; I think this segment is over-represented among highly religious Christian homeschoolers but it is certainly not exclusive to them (witness the ongoing debates about teaching evolution in public schools in many parts of the country.) There is I believe a larger and more mainstream Christian population who accept evolution and its teaching, and this group too has representatives among homeschoolers.

 

For the first group, I do think a poorly written textbook that denies evolution is generally preferred to a better textbook that embraces evolution.

Edited March 26, 2017 by maize

[fairfarmhand]

I don't think you can lump "Christian homeschoolers" together as a group on this.

 

There is acertain segment of Christian folks who take an anti-evolution approach; I think this segment is over-represented among highly religious Christian homeschoolers but it is certainly not exclusive to them (witness the ongoing debates about teaching evolution in public schools in many parts of the country.) There is I believe a larger and more mainstream Christian population who accept evolution and its teaching, and this group too has representatives among homeschoolers.

 

For the first group, I do think a poorly written textbook that denies evolution is generally preferred to a better textbook that embraces evolution.

 

I'm looking for some of the nuance in this with those followup questions. Because I know that there are so many shades of people who would fall under the title of "Christian homeschoolers"

[goldberry]

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Christian homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

Do you perceive Christian homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?

 

Do you feel that many Christians feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

What are the results of Christians homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

Any other thoughts on this concept?

 

I'll share my thoughts in a bit but I'd love to give some time for discussion to start/.

 

Regarding the bolded questions, it might be more accurate to ask "What percentage of Christian homeschoolers do you perceive or do you feel are threatened etc.  

 

Those questions seem very vague. 

 

Oh, wait, are you asking us to answer the questions or comment on the questions??

[Carrie12345]

Yeah, not all Christians who are homeschoolers are Christian Homeschoolers.  I mean, my mom didn't homeschool me, but she considers herself Christian enough to cry over my kids not being baptized, but I can't imagine her wanting me to avoid scientifically accepted facts.  Not with the number of museums she dragged me to as a kid!

[fairfarmhand]

Regarding the bolded questions, it might be more accurate to ask "What percentage of Christian homeschoolers do you perceive or do you feel are threatened etc.  

 

Those questions seem very vague. 

 

Oh, wait, are you asking us to answer the questions or comment on the questions??

 

I want the questions answered. :)

 

If you feel that they could be reworded to be more specific, I'm open to suggestions. I am purposefully being a little vague because I want others to answer them in an open ended way.

 

[maize]

I kind of perceive three groupings among Christian homeschoolers:

 

1) those who are homeschooling because they believe secular education is evil and will contaminate their children. This group is most likely to eschew secular science materials, perceiving them as a threat to faith.

 

2) Parents homeschooling for any of a variety of reasons who do not themselves have a strong background in or opinion on science--these may get drawn in to the creationist science trend just because it is so prominent in groups and materials targeted at Christians. They are not necessarily actively seeking it out though and can go either way, possibly using some of both types of materials.

 

3) People homeschooling for a variety of reasons who are secure in both their faith and their acceptance of secular science and actively seek out materials in line with comtemporary scientific consensus. These will generally avoid YEC materials or use them only with modification.

[goldberry]

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Christian homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

1.  Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

2.  Do you perceive Christian homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

 

3.  Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?

 

4.  Do you feel that many Christians feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

5.  What are the results of Christians homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

Any other thoughts on this concept?

 

I'll share my thoughts in a bit but I'd love to give some time for discussion to start/.

 

1. well written high quality

2. No, but that may be influenced by my peer group 

3. Nope, not at all

4. A small percentage are threatened, typically the same group that think if you want your kids to be moral you just don't teach them about sex.  It's kind of an ostrich approach.

5. High school kids not exposed to evolutionary content are at a huge disadvantage, both academically and spiritually.  If they are not taught about it and taught to analyze and debate it, I think it just makes it more likely for the kids to believe the first person who tells them something differently from mom and dad.  Academic disadvantages should be obvious.

 

 

[MotherGoose]

I'm a Catholic Christian. The Catholic part is significant because my church does not teach that we have to believe the Old Testament literally, only the New Testament. The Bible is meant to give you all you need for salvation, not as a history or a science textbook. So that's what I believe. It makes sense to me, and it allows you to accept current scientific knowledge AND the Bible. Maybe God put what He did in the Bible because He knew that ancient people couldn't understand evolution. Maybe He used evolution to accommplish His goals. So I would like to see science texts that accept a creator but don't belabor Young

Earth. It seems to be either/or.

[MotherGoose]

Well, all the homeschoolers I know IRL are Catholic. None of them have a problem with textbooks that teach evolution. I never heard of the YE controversy til this forum. Many of them like to use Catholic or Christian science materials because of the "look at all the wonderful things God has done!" Attitude in the text. But high quality would be their first criteria. The moms that loved science in school and chose STEM careers seem very confident teaching science. Others (like me) are less, but that's personality and aptitude, not beliefs. It's more nuanced that I know how to explain and I'd rather not get into it, but I think you could say the Catholic position is that evolution doesn't necessarily conflict with intelligent design. And of course many famous scientists were Catholics. I don't feel my faith conflicts with or discourages science at all.

I know very few Catholic homeschoolers. Most are Evangelical Protestants, and there is a conflict for many of them.

[Insertcreativenamehere]

This is very timely for me since I'm currently in the midst of deciding on a life science text for my rising 7th grader next year. We are Christian and identify strongly as such, but do not necessarily take sides on the young earth/old earth debate. We believe in an Intelligent Designer but also believe that the creation account in Genesis might not have occurred literally as it is described; it may be symbolic in nature. The bottom line is we believe God created the world but we don't know precisely how He chose to do it. 

 

Quality is important and I am open to texts with evolutionary content. However, I will definitely avoid books that are hostile to matters of faith. 

[mtomom]

I feel a bit hesitant to post this. I hope it doesn't come across that I think all Christians need to hold a certain scientific belief. There are sincere Christ followers in all the camps--young earth, old earth, evolutionary creation. I'm good with all my fellow Christians who are holding different beliefs and teaching those to their kids.

 

I fall into the evolutionary creation understanding of this. I put my answers in red, but hope anyone threatened by evolution won't read my replies below.

 

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Christian homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

I would chose the quality text.

 

Do you perceive Christian homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

Most people here, who lean heavily young earth, use Apologia and similar programs without stress. I see more stress with higher level math.

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?

No. I see evolution as science and Christianity as faith. Basically, by faith I believe that God created and sustains the world. Science, rightly interpreted, can show us how that creation occurred. The bible, rightly interpreted, doesn't contradict evolution.

 

Do you feel that many Christians feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

I certainly see that in most of my social contacts--though I think it is more confident in their understanding of science disproving evolution than feeling threatened. I was there in the past. My thoughts come from my own experience, recognizing I don't speak for all. For me, when I was there in the past, it was because I felt that evolution, if true, somehow disproved the bible, making it fallible, and therefore called God into question. I think we misunderstand scripture--I know I did--and it can cause a lot of unnecessary issues. It did for me. 

 

More broadly, I think it might be because I thought my belief saved me, and so right beliefs were vitally important. I think, now, there's some idolatry in the way I used to think about these things. But then letting go of those beliefs was really threatening and hard for me. It was a painful loss even though, in the end, I have so much more gain spiritually speaking. I'm glad I'm way on the other side of it.

 

What are the results of Christians homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

For my own kids, I would be concerned that being faced with the science behind it in college or beyond would call their faith into question. It did for me, and I was an adult at the time with decades of following Christ to sustain me as I began to investigate. What if I had come to that at 18, 19, 20? Would I have made it through spiritually speaking? Surely God would shepherd me through then as he did when I went through it as an adult, but it was painful and so unnecessary. I don't want that for my kids. Beyond that, I think misunderstanding of evolution would limit some science education and foundation that might limit a person looking into that area for a career. That said, I know a lot of the high school geared young earth creation materials take pains to try to prevent evolutionary teaching from causing kids to stumble spiritually.

 

Any other thoughts on this concept?

 

I'll share my thoughts in a bit but I'd love to give some time for discussion to start/.

 

 

[Mimm]

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

I'm a Christian who believes in evolution. So, easy choice.

 

Do you perceive Christian homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

 

Yes. The Christian homeschoolers in this area are all YEC. They probably wouldn't consider themselves intimidated, so I'm not sure that's the right word. But they would certainly feel threatened by mainstream science. One time I was listening to someone talk about an organization and said, "Over time it's, well, for lack of a better word... evolved, into blah blah blah." She didn't even want to use the word evolved.

 

The reason I think they are intimidated and threatened is that they don't want their children exposed to other ideas. They exclude people who believe differently. They write YEC into their statements of faith. It all seems very paranoid.

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?

 

It's something I should talk about more. When we use Christian materials, it comes up more.

 

Do you feel that many Christians feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

Yep. Because so many of them have bought into the idea that only God or evolution can be true.

 

What are the results of Christians homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

Well... They probably don't go into the sciences much. :)

 

Also, it contributes to a general science illiteracy in our country. But I also think the public schools and media in general are contributing to that as well.

 

This is just about the homeschoolers in my area.

 

ETA: I think another danger of telling kids they have to pick between evolution and God is that when they are teens or young adults, they'll decide that the evidence for evolution is too compelling to ignore and they'll have to reject God.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Mimm

[Faithr]

I am just waiting for this thread to blow up! 

[AnthemLights]

I am Christian...evangelical...young earth, intelligent design.  As someone else pointed out, I don't think the Bible was meant to be a science book, but I do think that where it touches on scientific topics it is 100% accurate and dependable.

 

I like high quality textbooks.  I don't mind evolutionary content.  I love teachable moments, debate, research.  If I can't explain and defend my beliefs to my own children...well, that would be pretty sorry indeed.

 

Apologetics is one of my favorite subjects.  Along with logic and critical teaching.  

[AnthemLights]

I am just waiting for this thread to blow up! 

 

Ha!  Yes, it's one of those.   :001_smile:

[Liza Q]

1.  Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

Today, high quality secular textbook, and discussed my beliefs and Genesis and shared a few online articles so they would understand exactly what Creation science was/meant. 12 years ago....I would have used the Christian text and supplemented with library books so I was sure that they learned exactly what evolution was/meant. And I have done both!

 

2.  Do you perceive Christian homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

 

Yes...but more because science and math are "hard" than the possibility that their child will encounter evolution in a book. But

 

3.  Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?

 

Yes...because I believe God created the heavens and the earth but I don't believe in a literal 6-day creation and making sure that my children see more than one pov is important to me.

 

4.  Do you feel that many Christians feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

Yes. If it is true it means that Genesis is not literal and then how do you pick and choose what in the Bible is literal and what is not? It used to worry me more because I am just not well educated enough/smart enough to really understand what I read about evolution. But now I think...it's ok if I don't know how God works. I believe that he works and that is enough for me.

 

5.  What are the results of Christians homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

Don't know for sure. At any time they can choose to learn about it so not knowing doesn't have to be permanent. But if they are not exposed out of fear and they are too afraid to read something for fear of it wrecking their faith....that's a weak faith, I think.

 

Any other thoughts on this concept?

 

I see that lots of people have posted since I started so I'm going to read more before I say anything else!

[Alice]

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Christian homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose? I choose the higher quality text. 

 

Do you perceive Christian homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why? Almost all the homeschoolers I know are more intimidated by science. I also find that it's the subject that non-homeschoolers always ask about. "But how are you going to teach Chemistry?" I think people are intimidated because they may not have had a good science education, they have the perception that "science labs don't work", they don't feel they have the math background to teach science or they just didn't like science when they were in school. 

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why? Yes. I am a Christian. I believe in evolution and teach it. I will not choose a text that teaches that evolution is a a questionable theory. I will use texts that reference God being involved in creation... "isn't creation amazing" but I won't use something that explicitly teaches young-earth creation or that does not teach evolution. 

 

Do you feel that many Christians feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why? I'm not sure threatened is the right word. The Christians who I know who do not believe in evolution would just say that they don't believe in it and they don't want to teach something that they think is inaccurate. But I can't really speak to that since it's not my own view. 

 

What are the results of Christians homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school? Hmmm...that's hard to say. Having been a biology and chemistry major in college I think that a Christian homeschooled kid who never was exposed to evolutionary content could do fine with sciences in college. It would be like learning something else that you hadn't been exposed to before. However, as a Christian I know kids who got to college and found their faith shaken because of what they learned in science. Not because science and faith can't coexist but because they had been taught that as a Christian the only compatible belief with faith was a literal young-earth and then they were presented with evidence in science class that showed them something different. Then they were faced with the idea that what they know believed was not compatible with Christianity as they had been taught it. 

 

Any other thoughts on this concept?

 

I'll share my thoughts in a bit but I'd love to give some time for discussion to start/.

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Alice

[abba12]

I am young earth, however by high school I belive my kids need to know what the other side believes in order to hold their own meaningful opinion one way or the other. I would use the high quality text, and when tbe section on evolution comes up I would incorporate a book on young earth creation into their theology studies, and possibly a short book on the argument for old earth creation too.

 

But I'm apparently odd. I homeschool for faith reasons but, not to shield my kids from the world. Rather to guide them in a more hands on way.

[MotherGoose]

1. Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

Today, high quality secular textbook, and discussed my beliefs and Genesis and shared a few online articles so they would understand exactly what Creation science was/meant. 12 years ago....I would have used the Christian text and supplemented with library books so I was sure that they learned exactly what evolution was/meant. And I have done both!

 

2. Do you perceive Christian homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

 

Yes...but more because science and math are "hard" than the possibility that their child will encounter evolution in a book. But

 

3. Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?

 

Yes...because I believe God created the heavens and the earth but I don't believe in a literal 6-day creation and making sure that my children see more than one pov is important to me.

 

4. Do you feel that many Christians feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

Yes. If it is true it means that Genesis is not literal and then how do you pick and choose what in the Bible is literal and what is not? It used to worry me more because I am just not well educated enough/smart enough to really understand what I read about evolution. But now I think...it's ok if I don't know how God works. I believe that he works and that is enough for me.

 

5. What are the results of Christians homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

Don't know for sure. At any time they can choose to learn about it so not knowing doesn't have to be permanent. But if they are not exposed out of fear and they are too afraid to read something for fear of it wrecking their faith....that's a weak faith, I think.

 

Any other thoughts on this concept?

 

I see that lots of people have posted since I started so I'm going to read more before I say anything else!

I do not want this thread to devolve into a mess. However, I struggled with the same issues. I've talked to several pastors and a Catholic priest about this. My Catholic priest made complete sense and there were no contradictions: You don't pick and choose what's true. You believe the New Testament as literal truth, including the "This is my body, which is given for you," parts of the New Testament. (Real presence of Christ in the Eucharist). The Old Testament can be seen as myth, in part. Some of it is obviously verifiable history. The rest is myth. Genesis can be a myth, and you can think that people back then couldn't count to a million so they could t understand theistic evolution. I believe, and teach my children, that God is bigger than the boxes we put him into, and he can sort it all out. I have converted to Catholic because of all this (and other things). But we believe our brothers and sisters in Christ are also saved.

[rocassie]

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?  High Quality Text

 

Do you perceive Christian homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?  No, I would say most are more intimidated by math.  Those that teach from a creationist perspective (ones I know in real life), actually tend to teach the specific sciences - biology, chemistry, physics, etc.  They just tend to not deal with evolution.

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?  No, at this point I don't delve much into evolutionary aspects of science rather I'm more focused on exposure to what my children can test and experience.  We certainly read many books that mention evolution or start off with evolution so my children are aware of the concept.

 

Do you feel that many Christians feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?  The families I know that greatly dislike (I'm not sure I could say they feel threatened) also insulate their children from much of the world.   There aren't to many Christian families I know that are like this.

 

What are the results of Christians homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?  I think they are at a great disadvantage when attending college especially if they go into the sciences.  However depending on their major it may or may not be a big deal.  Some kids may really be thrown for a loop if their first exposure is as an adult.  In our culture and society, I do think one of our parenting/teaching jobs is to give our kids the knowledge of the outside world in which they live in and how to navigate that world.  For example, I teach my children Greek myths.   I don't believe these myths to be true, but I still teach them  because so much literature, art, movies, etc. reference it.  It gives my kids a context and understanding when they encounter it.

 

Any other thoughts on this concept? Many science texts (that I have looked at) or even "fun" science topic books talk about evolution as fact rather than theory and rarely discuss discrepancies or differing thoughts on evolution and the beginning of our universe.  This is something I will discuss with my children as well as the Biblical account of creation and the various beliefs about whether it is literal, figurative, allegorical, etc.

 

Because there are so many different doctrines of faith in those that practice Christianity, it can't really be said that "Christian" homeschoolers don't teach evolution.  Many, including myself, do, but there are families that practice a very strict view of the Bible and often eschew anything that is "worldly."

 

Not sure if this helps any, but these are my experiences with my Christian homeschool community.

[FaithManor]

1. well written high quality

2. No, but that may be influenced by my peer group

3. Nope, not at all

4. A small percentage are threatened, typically the same group that think if you want your kids to be moral you just don't teach them about sex. It's kind of an ostrich approach.

5. High school kids not exposed to evolutionary content are at a huge disadvantage, both academically and spiritually. If they are not taught about it and taught to analyze and debate it, I think it just makes it more likely for the kids to believe the first person who tells them something differently from mom and dad. Academic disadvantages should be obvious.

My approach is much the same. We used college/AP texts for our high school science courses here. As a general rule, we use mostly college texts because they are better written with The Great Courses lectures for the seminar component and learning to take notes from a lecture.

 

I think many homeschoolers are comfortable with conceptual biology, chemistry, and physics which are not heavy math based. I have encountered quite a few who are intimidated by advanced levels in these same three disciplines or AP/Honors level. Of those that were worried but wanted to pursue, DE was often used. So heavy in evolutionary theory.

 

I absolutely think students who are not exposed to higher level scientific thinking as well as developing a solid understanding of evolution are at a disadvantage for college level studies.

 

I know several secular homeschoolers of which I am one. Christianity itself has no bearing on why I homeschool so as a result, I have no vested interest in using christian curriculum per se though we are United Methodist here. Now that said, among the fundamentalist christians I know, they are heavily vested in christian curriculum only with the only exposure to evolutionary theory as "it is bad" and not much else. As above, it appears to be the same approach with reproductive education.

[FaithManor]

And I have met recently a flat earth believing christian - which is a jumble because the two do not necessarily go together at all - and she homeschools so her children do not learn science and become confused. Sigh...

[poppy]

I do not think you should use the term Christian at all. It really is a small subset of Christians.   Catholics and many Protestant denominations  teach evolution as scientifically accurate.  

 

Why not use the term Creationists? Or maybe Creationists / ID proponents. 

[Guest]

I'm a YE Christian (I prefer to consider myself a traditional, bible believing monergist, but whatever), and I still would pick a high quality science text. I wish there were a wider selection of Christian materials that are fair in their portrayal of evolution as a theory - I'm not intimidated or threatened by it but I also think it is wildly inaccurate to present it as the only paradigm to which the body of evidence we have can be fitted.

 

I don't think many Christian homeschoolers are intimidated by life sciences, but I know plenty who feel ill equipped to teach the more challenging and more rigorous mathematical sciences, like physics and even organic chemistry. That's not a religious thing, though. But I'm also surrounded by a self selecting group of similarly academic homeschoolers. Yes, we believe the Bible and creation as it is represented in Genesis, and no death before sin enters the world. This does not somehow disallow a rigorous and academic approach to education. We believe that intense and fervent pursuit of the knowledge and understanding of God's creation is the entire point of discovery, so high quality sources are harmonious with that.

 

I detest this topic on here with the fire of a thousand suns, because it always seems to end up insulting people like me who are in favor of high academic standards and high theological ones, so I probably won't engage beyond this. But suffice to say I hope all my children pursue science and mathematics with as much zeal as biblical history and hermeneutics.

[Mimm]

And I have met recently a flat earth believing christian - which is a jumble because the two do not necessarily go together at all - and she homeschools so her children do not learn science and become confused. Sigh...

 

I still have a hard time believing that there are people out there that actually believe this.

[matrips]

Well, all the homeschoolers I know IRL are Catholic. None of them have a problem with textbooks that teach evolution. I never heard of the YE controversy til this forum. Many of them like to use Catholic or Christian science materials because of the "look at all the wonderful things God has done!" Attitude in the text. But high quality would be their first criteria. The moms that loved science in school and chose STEM careers seem very confident teaching science. Others (like me) are less, but that's personality and aptitude, not beliefs. It's more nuanced that I know how to explain and I'd rather not get into it, but I think you could say the Catholic position is that evolution doesn't necessarily conflict with intelligent design. And of course many famous scientists were Catholics. I don't feel my faith conflicts with or discourages science at all.

I could have said the same thing until we moved to Florida. (We are Catholic). The south is way different than what I was used to up north (mid Atlantic region). I found Christians up north to be very inclusive, and the 'Christians' down here to be the complete opposite. YE is also very common here (and something I had to look up when we moved here).

[FaithManor]

I still have a hard time believing that there are people out there that actually believe this.

It is QUITE the conspiracy theory! NASA apparently exists to guard the edges of the earth so people don't fall off, and all airplanes have been equipped with devices that fool pilots into thinking the earth is round.

 

Crazy stuff. And this family gives a LOT of money, according to the wife, to the organization.

[The Girls' Mom]

nm

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by The Girls' Mom

[AK_Mom4]

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Creationist homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

Do you perceive Creationist homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?

 

Do you feel that many CreAtionists feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

What are the results of Creationist homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

Any other thoughts on this concept?

 

I'll share my thoughts in a bit but I'd love to give some time for discussion to start/.

 

 

Please please please do not wreck my thread. Be kind! Be polite!

1- high quality well written Every Time

2- I can't speak for Creationists, bc I am not one. I think I see more homeschoolers at the high school level being intimidated by Math than science.

3- evolutionary content is a big deal. I want the materials to be concise and accurate within the context of current accepted scientific theory.

 

I've never actually met a Creationist homeschooler that I know of so I'm not sure what the impact would be. I have attended a variety of church denominations and none of them preached YE, so I don't even know how common that is. Here at our house, we use traditional well written science materials that follow mainstream science theory. However, we have had long discussions with the kids about various creation theories as part of our religious education and I think discussions of this type are very valuable for preparing kids to make their own decisions about religious topics.

[gardenmom5]

I don't think you can lump "Christian homeschoolers" together as a group on this.

 

 

 

this.

 

I am just waiting for this thread to blow up! 

 

t-rex's eating pumpkins or is it watermelons?

 

I think this is one reason the dr leading the team doing dudelings evals pushed for him to be in a school.  (I mentioned he was terrified of the animorphic dinosaurs at our local science museum.  he was terrified of small friendly dogs too.)  there is a *perception* that homeschoolers in general are antiscience and would rather have a poor quality text that doens't even mention evolution. 

 

I'm in a fairly secular area - but did see groups at our local homeschool convention that preferred the ye anti-evolution science texts.  our paths did not otherwise cross in homeschool

coops or support groups. 

 

I prefer high quality text and will discuss with my kids why I might disagree with something (whatever the subject).   let it be said - I have two stem majors.   2dd (chem major, bio minor)  hadn't planned on doing a bio minor let alone a double major despite the number of bio classes she'd taken. secular university where even her secular profs admitted the "evolution" class (went into it in more depth than other classes that mentioned it.)  was not worth her time unless she wanted a biology  minor or double major. (didn't have time for a bio project.)  it finally reached a point where she decided she might as well take that (specific) class that pushes evolution because then she would have a minor in bio.  as opposed to just "a lot of bio classes.".  (looks better on a resume/grad school apps.)  

[kroe1]

I would choose neither type of text you mentioned. I would prefer a high quality Christian science text of which there are quite a few. We homeschooled with mostly A Beka science. Through the years, we did add a daily science lab from kindergarten on. Both DH and I have doctorates in science. Teaching our children science was the most important subject to us. DS also now holds a doctorate in one of the sciences and DD16 scored perfect in science on ACT. So, my guess is A Beka, and it's YE teaching, is doing something right. We looked at many different texts through the years and never found anything that fit our children's ability to learn better than A Beka, although many could have worked.

 

In regards to your second question about intimidation, I perceive most people are more intimidated by science than other subjects no matter how they are schooled.

 

Next you wanted to know if evolution influenced why we chose a text. It is but one of a vast array of issues, certainly not why we would choose a science text. We chose texts each year based on the diversity of subjects covered, the amount of lab opportunity, and the volume of material presented that we felt our children would actually retain. Texts with vivid photos, graphics, and charts, texts with interesting labs, and texts with larger print on neatly layed out pages turned out to be better for our kids. Also helpful were large colorful flash cards in the elementary years along with vast amounts of rote memory work in those early years.

 

In regards to Christians being threatened by evolutionary content, I doubt it, at least not more than any other politically correct secular belief.

 

I do not know any Christian homeschoolers who are not exposed to evolution. I am more worried about the kids who are not exposed to fallacies in scientific postulants whether they are regarding something about evolution or any other scientific principle. It is the constant questioning of what we suppose to be true, as well as the wonderment of what we do not know that makes great science. For example, whether one believes in evolution or not, one should be questioning why there are not many transition animal fossils. That lends itself to many hypotheses, including one that may include viral vector DNA infecting multiple animals within a species at once rather than the slow process taught by the evolution purists. It has nothing to do with Christianity, but, rather a hole in a scienctific belief.

 

My final thought is that your questions seem quite condescending, especially the first one which assumes Christian science texts are inferior to secular ones. But, I might be just reading more into your question than you intended. Perhaps you meant that all high quality Christian texts had been burned and all that was left was crappy ones. What really matters to me in any text, science or otherwise, is how much my kiddo retains at least 6 months later. If the answer is most of it, then I would think that I found a great text. I would also expect the text to sufficiently advance the child's knowledge enough to advance to a higher level.

 

But, DD16 is headed to college and my teaching days are over. So my thoughts really do not matter anymore.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Minniewannabe

[bibiche]

Ma foi. Did you just refer to evolution as a "politically correct secular belief?"  :laugh:

 

I won't address your other statements, because I don't have the time or the inclination, but did want to point out that there are, in fact, transitional fossils galore, just so no one reasonable thinks that there is actual truth to that nonsense.

[Janeway]

Your post was not exactly kind and polite and I will tell you why....

 

 

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Creationist homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

I'll start with this analogy:

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose? You are starting this question with the assumption that the secular book is high quality and well written and the Christian text is not. WELL, as someone who looked high and low for good quality secular books, they are just not readily available. The texts used in the local public schools are awful and I would not even consider them. I would consider public school texts made for k-12 to be typically inferior and poorly written and of low quality in comparison to some of the Christian authors that are easily available for home schoolers. 

Do you perceive Creationist homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why? Again, you ask this question but then throw in the assumption that the person answering would say yes. You should not have said "why" at the end, but rather "why or why not?" I have never met a creationist home schooler who was any more intimidated by science that anyone else. My perinatal doctor, who was an excellent doctor, was a creationist home schooler. Our family doctor homeschools, she is not our doctor anymore as she has cut back her practice, but I would trust her completely. I know for a fact that she uses Apologia. 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why? No, and to the why not answer, I am teaching it myself. I can teach it however I want. The only time it is an issue is when a book says "because of evolution..." in every other sentence. The book was written by Harold Smith because of evolution. And because of evolution, we can study biology. And the rivers flow, because of evolution. And you have red blood cells, because there is no God and the Earth was form over billions of years..and so on. Sometimes, in some of these books, they invest an extreme amount of time in trying to sell evolution and old Earth and seem to barely get around to touching on the science. And sometimes, there is a very disrespectful attitude, a mocking attitude, toward someone who would not even be reading their book. And I do not want my children to think that that condescending, rude talk is ok.

Do you feel that many CreAtionists feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?  No. Because most of the books based on creationism talk about evolution. Most of the books I have used that are evolution based never seem to even touch on explaining any theories other than evolution. Those who were raised on evolution books alone often have no clue about intelligent design or creationism or even new vs old Earth creationism.

What are the results of Creationist homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school? I have never known a creationist to not be exposed to evolution. I have only known those learning on evolution books having no clue what creationism is, the basis for it, or otherwise.

Any other thoughts on this concept? Your questionaire is worded in a way that makes it rather clear that you are against people using Christian books for science and thinks it leaves those same students unable to function in the scientific world. But my experience has been that it is the opposite. A REAL scientist would want access to all inflormation, evidence, and theories on a subject. Evolution books generally only discuss that and just that, and does not even go in depth on explaining it. Most of the Christian books on science actually spends a fair amount of time explaining all the theories, evidence, and beliefs about these.

I'll share my thoughts in a bit but I'd love to give some time for discussion to start/.


Please please please do not wreck my thread. Be kind! Be polite!

[Guest]

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Creationist homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose? â€‹The well written, high quality text that covers what I feel most important for the topic at hand. 

 

Do you perceive Creationist homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why? Not necessarily. I think YE as well as evolution believing parents can be equally intimidated. That is more a factor of confidence in what you are teaching, rather than a philosophical stance. I've seen people who believe in evolution not be able to debate their way out of a paper bag, and YEC who can stand their ground against some quite seasoned philosophers. To me that is a matter of confidence outside of theology. 

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why? â€‹No. I think both sides should be taught regardless of faith or belief in order to be an informed, educated person. I don't believe in the Greek gods, but I still teach Greek mythology, you know? 

 

Do you feel that many CreAtionists feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why? â€‹I think many people are threatened by articulating their beliefs and ideas around sensitive subjects. I think perhaps in particular, creationists are used to being the butts of jokes that make them more defensive. I don't consider that them being threatened by the content, but rather being threatened by always being on the defensive. I see more snark from the pro-evolutionary side than the YEC side, but I'm sure it probably exists in both. I don't feel that threatened is the right word. I see their point from the "tired of defending," viewpoint as I can identify with as a homeschooler who gets tired of defending a choice. That can lead to a perception of being threatened when that's really not the issue. Being able to articulate an argument again and again, when you aren't built of that, could be exhausting I would imagine. 

 

What are the results of Creationist homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school? â€‹Kids who are ridiculed and quickly beaten down in college. Borrowed beliefs and faith dont' last long, If you want a child to defend a belief, they must understand the arguments around it. I don't understand sheltering from other views on EITHER side of the issue as it's clearly not going away, no matter how much anyone wants to pretend it is. People need to explain evolutionary content. People need to explain the shortcomings of the scientific method. Both sides need to come to the table on that one. 

 

Any other thoughts on this concept? Not really. I don't understand why it is such a volatile topic to be honest. 

 

I'll share my thoughts in a bit but I'd love to give some time for discussion to start/.

 

 

Please please please do not wreck my thread. Be kind! Be polite! Hopefully I followed your request. 

 

I haven't read other responses yet, so as not to influence and side track my own thoughts. Responses in red above. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by texasmom33

[MercyA]

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Christian homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

The high-quality text.

 

Do you perceive Christian homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

 

No. Most of the Christian homeschoolers I know IRL are YE believers and are intelligent and confident. 

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why? 

 

No. We believe that God created the universe and everything in it. We are not overly concerned with exactly how He did it. We recognize that the Hebrew word used for "day" in Genesis 1 can also mean a period of time. 

 

We are old-earth Creationists but not necessarily evolutionists.

 

Do you feel that many Christians feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

Threatened is probably not the right word. Hostile and suspicious towards, in my circles, yes. 

 

What are the results of Christians homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

I'm not a fan of Pat Robertson, but agree with these statements from him:

 

"Look, I know people will probably try to lynch me when I say this, but Bishop Ussher—God bless him!—wasn't inspired by the Lord when he said it all took 6,000 years.  It just didn't.

 

And you go back in time, you've got radiocarbon dating, you've got all these things, and you've got the carcasses of dinosaurs frozen in time… And so there was a time that these giant reptiles were on the earth, and it was before the time of the Bible.  So don't try to cover it up and make like everything was 6,000 years.  That's not the Bible.  That's Bishop Ussher.  And so if you fight revealed science you're going to lose your children, and I believe in telling them the way it was.â€

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by MercyA

[J-rap]

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Creationist homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose? I would choose the first absolutely, because I believe in the scientific theory and also believe that it will ultimately point to God.  I'm not out to support a particular theory;  I'm out to discover which one is real.  (But for the record, I am not YE and I do support evolution, at least to an extent.)   

 

Do you perceive Creationist homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why? No, the ones I have known do not seem intimidated by science, for the most part.  But, they are very particular about the science texts they will use.  They will use the highest quality text that supports YE.

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?  It is to the extent that scientific theory to this point seems to support it.  How could I deny that?

 

Do you feel that many CreAtionists feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?  Yes.  Because they have been taught that the creation story can only be interpreted a certain way, and they don't want to support any other theory that goes against that.

 

What are the results of Creationist homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?  It depends.  If they are being taught to be intelligent and creative thinkers, they may run into trouble as they get on in life.  If they associate mostly with like-minded people, media, etc., then they will be fine.

 

Any other thoughts on this concept? I've never understood why true science scares some Christians.  I believe God is mostly logical.  Scientific theory is logical.  Let's just keep following it and see where it leads.  I believe it will eventually lead to God.  It may not do it in the way we imagine it should, but it's really not about us.

 

I'll share my thoughts in a bit but I'd love to give some time for discussion to start/.

 

 

Please please please do not wreck my thread. Be kind! Be polite!

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by J-rap

[QueenCat]

Your post was not exactly kind and polite and I will tell you why....

 

 

 

Interesting view. I didn't see anything rude in the way she asked. In fact, I thought she worked very hard to be kind and polite in her wording.

[Bluegoat]

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Creationist homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

Do you perceive Creationist homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?

 

Do you feel that many CreAtionists feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

What are the results of Creationist homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

Any other thoughts on this concept?

 

I'll share my thoughts in a bit but I'd love to give some time for discussion to start/.

 

 

Please please please do not wreck my thread. Be kind! Be polite!

 

So, I am a Christian, and not YEC, and I'd go further than that and say I have a real theological beef around the beliefs that lead to a YEC position. 

 

So - I would be very disinclined to use a science text that is YEC, it would be a problem for me from both a theological and scientific perspective.  That being said, I've seen some supposedly secular science books that make comments on metaphysics or epistemology that I wouldn't be crazy about either.

 

I am not sure whether I'd say the YEC homeschoolers are more intimidated.  There are some around here, and they tend to be the ones that run some of the homeschool programs, so things like the homeschool science fair direct kids not to make projects that could cause religious controversy.  (This always feels slightly alternate reality to me, since YEC feels religiously controversial to me.  But I guess the point is not to rock the boat.)

 

In a way that does seem to me to lack confidence - the idea that if your kids simple are exposed to some dangerous idea, they might somehow backslide or .... well I don't know what.  It seems like an issue of lack of faith in one's kids though, or really God. 

 

As far as actually teaching science, I suspect individual confidence in that has more to do with other aspects of people's personalities/experience. 

 

We haven't really talked about this in our science class at home, the kids haven't had much chance to encounter it, so I don't recall it ever coming up that way.  They have all asked at least once about how the scientific story and Bible story are related. 

 

I don't know about the effects of this in high school on individuals.  It is a real minority position here.  The big things that worryme about it is that kids will think they have to be YEC to be Christians, on the one and, and what I see far more, is a lot of non-religious people who think serious Christians don't believe in evolution.  I discovered in a passing comment about a week ago that my cousin thinks this (I guess she thinks I am not a serious Christian?)  I think it really limits the people who would even consider Christianity as potentially non-crazy thought system.

 

ETA - I realize I could have understood the question about evolutionary content a bit differently.  We have spent lots of time on it, because we do a lot of nature study and so it is behind many things we discuss.

 

Also - other comments - really, this is not just about evolution - YEC beliefs will also impact the study of the universe and earth more generally, as most recognize.  But also other things - if we are saying, for example, that radiocarbon dating is wrong, that suggests serious problems in other areas of science like physics, and geology.  If the argument is that God has set up things to look a particular way as some believe, it actually makes science impossible - anything could be made up in this way.  So, I think the OP questions really aren't limited to evolution.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Bluegoat

[poppy]

Hope it's OK to get discussion from these answers, if not I'll delete.

 

 

 

​Kids who are ridiculed and quickly beaten down in college. Borrowed beliefs and faith dont' last long, If you want a child to defend a belief, they must understand the arguments around it. I don't understand sheltering from other views on EITHER side of the issue as it's clearly not going away, no matter how much anyone wants to pretend it is. People need to explain evolutionary content. People need to explain the shortcomings of the scientific method. Both sides need to come to the table on that one.

 

I'm flashing back to my college days where we sat around in a dorm freshman year, and one girl laughed at the idea of evolution. Everyone else in the room was just stunned. Context is private women's college in the midwest.   We didn't ridicule her-- on purpose--- but, there were so many questions.  It never occurred to anyone , I don't think, that there were people being taught creationism.  I remember someone asked her about the scopes trial.  I guess we were sheltered? But she was too, because she was extremely surprised to find she was in the minority. She's the one who brought it up in the first place. it was a moment that has stuck with me to this day 25 years later.  She did end up dropping out. .....probably unrelated.  Lots of kids drop out freshman year.

[TheReader]

 

 

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Creationist homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

 

*For me, I would choose a well written, high quality text even if it references evolution. I am not as strict a Creationist as some, and would far rather add commentary about my beliefs to the evolutionary text than to try and find sources to beef up the poor content of the Creationist text.

 

Do you perceive Creationist homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

 

*Yes. Most of the folks I know who are strict Creationists (in particular 6-day creationists/literal creationists) seem to be almost threatened by Science, as though it's a direct adversary to be fought against, as though if they aren't careful big bad science will seduce their child and lead them astray. Or, that is my interpretation, anyway....

 

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?

 

*No, not really. My husband is a scientist and believes to a certain extent in some evolutionary content. I myself do not hold to a strict 6-day/young earth creationist view. I do not think that science in any way threatens the core beliefs that my Christianity is based on, and I do think it's easy to add commentary on differing beliefs, and preferable to do so rather than never teach opposing viewpoints. I'd rather my kids know what all sides believe, and why we choose to believe in the side we believe in, rather than blindly "this is the truth, all others are lies, avoid them at all costs! They're dangerous!"

 

 

Do you feel that many CreAtionists feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

*Yes, see above answer, I think I put this under the "are they intimidated by..." question. (note: how are those two questions different? I take it I misunderstood the first one...?)

 

 

What are the results of Creationist homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

*Uneducated students. Students who, if they go to college and take science classes there, will be 1, at a disadvantage to their peers as this will be new material they've never encountered, and 2, will be further disadvantaged if they've taken on their parents' passion/dogmatic attitude towards it, perhaps arguing with the professor, doing poorly on tests/assignments because they staunchly disbelieve the facts or theories presented, etc. I believe it also perpetuates negative stereotypes of homeschoolers, though I assume plenty would argue that's not a valid reason to teach against their conscience. On the other hand, a strict Creationist household likely would discourage their student from any degree that would involve a great deal of science, so this may not ever become an issue.

 

 

Any other thoughts on this concept?

 

*That about sums it up. I will add that these are answers, based on what I have done with my teens. We did use a co-op that uses a popular Creationist based text, but still has solid science and was taught by a teacher who really brought out the science; we've also sought out secular texts of high quality. One of those students is now in college and has/is doing well in his science courses, As in Geology, Chemistry and Biology, all taught from an evolutionary standpoint and because we never shied away from that, he hasn't been shocked, surprised, caught off guard, come home thinking his professor is nuts, etc.

 

 

[Wheres Toto]

Yeah, not all Christians who are homeschoolers are Christian Homeschoolers.  I mean, my mom didn't homeschool me, but she considers herself Christian enough to cry over my kids not being baptized, but I can't imagine her wanting me to avoid scientifically accepted facts.  Not with the number of museums she dragged me to as a kid!

 

I agree.  I keep having to explain the difference to dh.  That there is a perception and some assumptions made if you say you are a Christian Homeschooler.

 

 

I kind of perceive three groupings among Christian homeschoolers:

 

1) those who are homeschooling because they believe secular education is evil and will contaminate their children. This group is most likely to eschew secular science materials, perceiving them as a threat to faith.

 

2) Parents homeschooling for any of a variety of reasons who do not themselves have a strong background in or opinion on science--these may get drawn in to the creationist science trend just because it is so prominent in groups and materials targeted at Christians. They are not necessarily actively seeking it out though and can go either way, possibly using some of both types of materials.

 

3) People homeschooling for a variety of reasons who are secure in both their faith and their acceptance of secular science and actively seek out materials in line with comtemporary scientific consensus. These will generally avoid YEC materials or use them only with modification.

 

I know a few that fall into category 1, but a lot that fall into category 2.  They didn't even really think about the whole evolution/creation thing until they started homeschooling and looking into curriculum.  It may not be something that is specifically taught in their church but it seems that when they start looking, they are pulled into the usual creationist sites (AIG, Apologia) and feel like that's what they're supposed to believe.  We fall into category 3. 

 

 

I'm thinking of writing some stuff on Creationist homeschoolers and science. I want to mine the hive to make sure my perceptions are accurate.

 

Assume all of these statements are about high school aged kids.

 

I'll start with this analogy:

 

Suppose you're a homeschool mom looking for high school science textbooks. You have two options: A well written, high quality text that references evolution as a valid scientific theory or a lesser quality Christian text. What do you choose?

 

Definitely the well-written, high quality secular text.  When we hit high school, I plan to use college texts.  Probably those for non-majors at that level.

 

Do you perceive Creationist homeschoolers to be more intimidated by science than other subjects? Why?

 

Not necessarily.  I see a lot of homeschoolers in general that are intimidated by science.  Not necessarily the content but trying to do all the lab stuff at home.   It can be messy, expensive, and require a lot of planning.  That seems to be the problem more than creation/evolution.  And maybe the math content in the higher levels.  

 

Is evolutionary content a big issue for you in teaching science? Why?

 

I won't use materials that avoid it at home.  I teach the generally accepted scientific principles.  I do stay "neutral" in my 4-H STEM club.  I have at least 3 families that are or lean YE creationist.

 

Do you feel that many CreAtionists feel threatened by evolutionary content? Why?

 

Some do and some don't.  Of the ones I know fairly well, they don't seem to avoid evolution completely, they just explain their beliefs when it comes up.

 

What are the results of Creationist homeschooled kids not being exposed to evolutionary content in high school?

 

I could see it causing problems if they do a lot of science in college.   Like others, I've seen the studies about kids who lose their faith in college because they are hearing about things for the first time.  I don't think this is limited to just science though.  I think it could also be if they aren't exposed to people of other religions or cultures.

 

Any other thoughts on this concept?

 

I'll share my thoughts in a bit but I'd love to give some time for discussion to start/.

 

 

Please please please do not wreck my thread. Be kind! Be polite!

[ScoutTN]

I'm a YE Christian (I prefer to consider myself a traditional, bible believing monergist, but whatever), and I still would pick a high quality science text. I wish there were a wider selection of Christian materials that are fair in their portrayal of evolution as a theory - I'm not intimidated or threatened by it but I also think it is wildly inaccurate to present it as the only paradigm to which the body of evidence we have can be fitted.

 

I don't think many Christian homeschoolers are intimidated by life sciences, but I know plenty who feel ill equipped to teach the more challenging and more rigorous mathematical sciences, like physics and even organic chemistry. That's not a religious thing, though. But I'm also surrounded by a self selecting group of similarly academic homeschoolers. Yes, we believe the Bible and creation as it is represented in Genesis, and no death before sin enters the world. This does not somehow disallow a rigorous and academic approach to education. We believe that intense and fervent pursuit of the knowledge and understanding of God's creation is the entire point of discovery, so high quality sources are harmonious with that.

 

I detest this topic on here with the fire of a thousand suns, because it always seems to end up insulting people like me who are in favor of high academic standards and high theological ones, so I probably won't engage beyond this. But suffice to say I hope all my children pursue science and mathematics with as much zeal as biblical history and hermeneutics.

 

 

 Amen!

I am not sure where I am on the age of the earth, but I love this post.

[fairfarmhand]

For those who think I'm being condescending and unkind to Creationists....

 

I am a YE Creationist.

 

 

[FaithManor]

The other issue in this discussion is the term "well written". It can be subjective. I think a better term would be "comprehensive".

 

I had a parochial school that I substitute taught at that their high school biology curriculum was "well written" and competitive. I pointed out that not only were the first few chapters essentially the same as the public school's 7th grade life science, but it was otherwise also missing 13 topics covered in the PS regular, basic biology course. It was wildly off the mark for AP or honors/advanced.

 

But the actual writing style, the communication aspect of what was covered was pretty good. So one could have made the case that it was "well written", but it was absolutely not comprehensive of the basic subject matter that should have been covered for high school credit.

[Mimm]

For those who think I'm being condescending and unkind to Creationists....

 

I am a YE Creationist.

 

:lol:

 

See? This is why I perceive many Christians as feeling intimidated or threatened. As soon as questions were asked about science and evolution and Christianity and so on, some people in this thread were immediately defensive.

 

I get it. You can't take two virtual steps on the internet without encountering people who are willing to be absolutely vile to people who believe differently than them. And that's from people of all belief systems. So no matter what your beliefs are, you've almost certainly had someone be really horrible to you about them.

[6packofun]

I can't even answer the first question because it's so implausible.  How would I be limited to ONLY those 2 options?  LOL  

 

I lean heavily Old Earth, Intelligent Design (which means accepting some aspects of evolution, btw), so we ALWAYS use more than one source for science.  

 

I do think Christians are intimidated by the topic itself, not because science is hard (for the most part; this can be true for all kinds of parents) but because some think that they must fit science around the Biblical text to a very strict degree and so choosing a science source causes much more ANGST because there is more at stake for them.  

 

On the whole, I think parents are pretty unqualified to say what makes a scientific text "strong" or not.  I don't have a science degree and even if I did that wouldn't necessarily make me knowledgeable enough to write a textbook or even choose between 2 secular texts, for example, unless the differences were extremely obvious.   In general, I think secular parents don't believe that there can be ANY questions about Darwinian evolution's accuracy and so they will not choose anything that confronts challenges with the theory.  Most texts certainly don't.  Meanwhile, at the Royal Society in London in November...  LOL  

 

I do think that regardless of where they stand on the topic, Christian parents and kids should have a basic understanding of evolutionary theory.   As a side note, I've taken polls before (here and elsewhere) asking both secular and religious parents what they believe evolutionary theory teaches about the origin of human beings and people on BOTH sides have stated "evolved from apes" rather than from a common ancestor and also trotted out the "99% of our DNA is the same as chimpanzees" as convincing proof.  LOL  So I think Christians have a responsibility to KNOW the theory with which they agree or disagree.  Don't argue for or against something you can barely articulate, especially to your own children.

[Greta]

Am I interpreting correctly that you are asking these questions only of creationist Christians?  (I'm an evolutionist Christian, if that's a term.  Anyway, I was raised creationist but I now accept evolution, find it quite fascinating in fact, have a degree in zoology, and have actively taught evolution in my homeschool.  I'm happy to answer any questions, just didn't want to butt in if I'm not your intended demographic.)

[MercyA]

Who is down-voting a long-time member asking politely worded, honest questions? 

 

I don't get it.

[Guest]

Who knows? I stopped wondering who does the downvoting around here a long time ago. It's probably lurkers more than active chat board members, just going by personality.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Arctic Mama