Would You Be Interested/Offended if this Club Were Offered?

[Paige]

In light of recent events, I was thinking about ways to help create a better future, and what we could do to promote peace and justice, and I got an idea for starting a group in my community. I'm a little hesitant, however, since I am new here, and don't know more than a handful of people, and most of them are similar to me.

 

My thought was to create a group for parents wanting to proactively end prejudice by getting their kids to increase their meaningful interactions with people who are different from them. It would be for increasing connections with people of different races, religions, ethnicities, economic levels, sexual orientations, and physical and mental abilities, etc, and for creating a safe community for people in minority groups to bring their kids. I thought maybe the events/meetings could rotate between parent/planning meetings with just adults to talk about issues and ideas; social, fun activities for the children/teens to encourage relationships with those different from them in some way; service projects within the community; and cultural and educational speakers or events- maybe having a police officer talk to the kids about how to handle a traffic stop and what to do if they feel threatened, an Imam talk about Islamic holidays, or someone with a physical disability talk about accessibility or something like that.

 

There would be dual purposes of reducing prejudice and increasing relationships among the individuals in the group, and reducing prejudice among the larger population not involved in the group as they see the group members interacting publicly and doing service projects. My reasoning is that kids, especially older ones, tend to socialize with people like them, and a lot of prejudice and discrimination is unconscious- people would say and feel they are not prejudiced while unconsciously doing, thinking, and saying discriminatory things. I think we can reduce prejudice in the future by consciously encouraging our kids to get involved with people who are different from themselves and by supporting those relationships.

 

Would you want to be a part of this if it were in your town, or would you be offended? I hope it's not offensive to minority groups (I'm pretty WASP, although I have kids with minor physical disabilities), but I can imagine someone thinking that they don't want their kids to be used for some white kid's enrichment....I'd really like it to be a safe and supportive group for everyone's benefit, though- where kids from all types of families could build relationships with other adults/parents that they may not otherwise get to know, and we'd all have more people looking out for our kids. Thoughts?? 

[trulycrabby]

I wish you were in my town, because I would join that club! Sounds like a wonderful idea! :)

Edited July 10, 2016 by trulycrabby

[HomeAgain]

I wouldn't be interested.  It would seem.......my English is off tonight.  Trite is not the right word.  Something like it, though.  I think those are all good goals to have, just not as the main focus of the group, kwim?  I would be interested in a service club, absolutely.  I would be interested in a cultural club. I would not be interested in a club that has those as the side events and talking about race/prejudice as the main.  I think it is backwards.

Edited July 10, 2016 by HomeAgain

[Guest]

I would not be offended. I live in an officially diverse area of the nation and this type of club is in every high school. Its usually called Unity Club and will have very interesting monthly events.

[bibiche]

Yes, unfortunately it smacks of "enrichment for white kids" to me as well. :(

[Guest]

I can see where someone who has a "difference" would resent, as you said, being held up as a model for all the white kids to learn to be tolerant. Most people don't enjoy being identified by a noticeable feature.

 

Also, it's not merely a subconscious prejudice (learned behavior) that makes people gravitate to others who are similar to themselves. It appears to be an innate trait, though it is debateable what evolutionary purpose it solves. People are naturally more comfortable with people who are similar to themselves.

 

I don't think it's a terrible idea, but IMO, it works better if kid is in some setting where diversity already exists, rather than one that is contrived. I realize not every place has this, though.

[Daria]

I am not going to be able to find it now, but I recently read a very interesting article about trying to build connections between students with and without significant disabilities.

 

The study was done to try and measure the effectiveness of an intervention that was designed to help students with and without disabilities build connections. They had a series of activities that focused on teaching students without disabilities about their peers with disabilities, with the messages like "we are alike, we can be friends".  The activities which included things like stories and little projects, were done in small inclusive groups that contained children with and without disabilities.  

 

There was a control group in which children were grouped in the same way, but did listened to stories and did like projects that were focused on science.   At the end of the time, they observed the two groups interacting informally, and discovered that the children who had done science activities together had higher quality interactions.  

 

The conclusion that the authors came to was that children watch what we do more than they listen to what we say.

 

When we say to them "Look at these children, they're just like you.  They're so much like you that we wrote a book about, and here's an activity you can do together.  Isn't is special that we're together." The kids think, "Wow, they must be really different if the adults are going to this length to explain them to us.  We'll be nice and play for a while, but we can't really be friends with people so different." 

 

On the other hand, when we say "Here's Billy.  Let's do science together", the kids figure out pretty quickly that Billy is another kid a whole lot like them.  

 

This matches with my experience as a teacher and as a transracial adoptive parent, both when it comes to disability and when it comes to race and ethnicity.  I think that bringing kids together across difference is a very good idea, but I would have concerns about the kinds of activities you propose.  A time to come together and do art, or play soccer, or go to the zoo would be more powerful than the kinds of activities you discuss.   Now, I think that adults learn very differently from kids, and if the adults were talking specifically about diversity, I think that would be fine. 

[Rosie_0801]

Better than asking an Imam to come and talk about Islamic holidays, is going to participate. You're a week late for Ramadan this year, but there are often community Iftars that are raising funds for something. Our local was fundraising for a youth mental health organisation. There were Eid festivals around the place this weekend and probably will be for the next Eid in September. Most mosques have a community open day some time during the year. Or if that seems a bit overwhelming, go visit their bookshop. You all know you can tell a lot about people from their book collection. ;)

 

Most people liked to be learned about, but they think you should come to them to do it. We've been off to NAIDOC week celebrations run at the local Indigenous museum.

[marbel]

As a person who wasted countless hours in corporate diversity training sessions when I could have just been working with my diverse coworkers and getting our jobs done... I admit I cringed a little at some points in the OP.

 

Getting people together is great.  Making a big deal over how different people are, not so much.  Maybe that's not the intent and my experience is affecting my response, but there you go. :-)   

[Crimson Wife]

Our parish has a "Social Justice" ministry that does things like that. I know they work as part of a county-wide Interfaith Coalition with other houses of worship. They had a prayer vigil after the Orlando shooting and I think they're probably planning something in light of this weeks' events.

 

I'm sure there are probably secular social justice groups in my area as well but I tend to hold very different ideas about how to make society fairer and more just than the typical SJW.

[StephanieZ]

I think that sounds like a delightful group! What a great idea!! I'm getting a bit past the join-a-group-of-strangers phase of my life, but I'd be tempted by that group! Sounds super awesome to me.

[Tita Gidge]

I'm an ethnic minority living in an affluent semi-rural town in the Bible Belt. According to the town website, our population is just shy of 23K. Of that,

 

95% are White.

2.5% are Black/African-American.

1.5% are "Other" - Native American, Asian/Pacific Islander, Other Races, and Multiple Races.

Hispanic or Latino of any race were > 1%.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've heard "Well, you're DIFFERENT" (intended to be a positive thing, in that I'm some kind of exception to these people's stereotypes of what someone of my culture should be, do, and look like.)  I don't think a club like yours would work here. I wouldn't be offended in the least bit because I know several people in my community who share your desire to burst the bubble a bit and introduce some diversity to their kids' lives. I know it's coming from a good place.

 

I can see how it may come across as a "white privilege" thing. I don't believe that's the intended purpose, but to me it does feel ... I don't know, forced? Coerced? Neither of those is the correct word, they're too harsh I think, but I'm blank on how else to describe it from my POV (as one minority person).

 

As a minority living where I do, I would not bring my children to this type of club.  If your town is less predominantly White, you may have better luck? I'm already the token minority in everyday interactions; the friend people use to show others how open-minded they are. (I know this is not your purpose, I'm just trying to offer why a minority person may be too jaded to participate. It's already our life.)

 

What's weird is how this plays out in my own family. All of my children are mixed-race (White & Asian). Most of them look mixed-race Asian, but I have one that looks full-on Asian and one that looks full-on White (blonde hair, blue eyes, freckles, the whole bit). The White child noticed from an early age that he was treated differently. I worry about him growing up in this town, that he also lacks exposure to diversity - which is silly because his entire family is diverse and we're steeped heavily in my ethnic culture (the food he eats, the customs we have, etc.) I worry more just because of how he looks and how his looks are received by the larger community. I can't explain why. I just share this to let you know that I understand where you're coming from and that I have the same concerns and desires. I don't know how to address those, and I admire you wanting to act on yours. I just don't think it's something we'd participate in or have an interest in.

 

I like the idea others have of creating more organic interactions. Our parish hosts a "feast day" on the feast day of the saint we're named for. For the past few years we've served our ethnic food there. It's not something most people around here are familiar with and it's definitely not something that's easy to find in our region! The first year wasn't great, but by the third year we ran out of food because we didn't anticipate how popular the food would be. This led to our also introducing traditional dance to the feast day activities - a show and a short lesson. It feels like a more casual way to introduce people to our community and what we're about. I don't know how you'd approach that on such a wide scale (gender/sexual, racial, religious, economic, etc.) the way a club would. You may do better to focus on one area and work from there?

 

 

 

 

[Daria]

In light of recent events, I was thinking about ways to help create a better future, and what we could do to promote peace and justice, and I got an idea for starting a group in my community. I'm a little hesitant, however, since I am new here, and don't know more than a handful of people, and most of them are similar to me.

 

My thought was to create a group for parents wanting to proactively end prejudice by getting their kids to increase their meaningful interactions with people who are different from them. It would be for increasing connections with people of different races, religions, ethnicities, economic levels, sexual orientations, and physical and mental abilities, etc, and for creating a safe community for people in minority groups to bring their kids. I thought maybe the events/meetings could rotate between parent/planning meetings with just adults to talk about issues and ideas; social, fun activities for the children/teens to encourage relationships with those different from them in some way; service projects within the community; and cultural and educational speakers or events- maybe having a police officer talk to the kids about how to handle a traffic stop and what to do if they feel threatened, an Imam talk about Islamic holidays, or someone with a physical disability talk about accessibility or something like that.

 

There would be dual purposes of reducing prejudice and increasing relationships among the individuals in the group, and reducing prejudice among the larger population not involved in the group as they see the group members interacting publicly and doing service projects. My reasoning is that kids, especially older ones, tend to socialize with people like them, and a lot of prejudice and discrimination is unconscious- people would say and feel they are not prejudiced while unconsciously doing, thinking, and saying discriminatory things. I think we can reduce prejudice in the future by consciously encouraging our kids to get involved with people who are different from themselves and by supporting those relationships.

 

Would you want to be a part of this if it were in your town, or would you be offended? I hope it's not offensive to minority groups (I'm pretty WASP, although I have kids with minor physical disabilities), but I can imagine someone thinking that they don't want their kids to be used for some white kid's enrichment....I'd really like it to be a safe and supportive group for everyone's benefit, though- where kids from all types of families could build relationships with other adults/parents that they may not otherwise get to know, and we'd all have more people looking out for our kids. Thoughts?? 

 

I know I already replied to this, but I wanted to address this line in particular.  However, I'm having a hard time finding the words.  As the parent of a 17 year old black male, my fears for my son are too raw right now for me to be able to express myself clearly. 

 

So I'll just say that there are some conversations that need to happen in the safety of a tightly knit circle of people you know and trust who share your experiences.   I can't imagine putting my son in the situation you describe, any more than I could imagine asking a man I don't know to teach my (imaginary) daughter about rape in a group of boys she doesn't know well.  

[EndOfOrdinary]

As someone who is in a persecuted minority of the place I live, the entire idea that white children need to be informed how to act during a traffic stop makes me scoff. The information white kids learn is how to calmly interact with police and that calmly interacting works. What is also then learned is that those who do not have everything work out obviously did something wrong. They were not calm because they did something wrong. This is why such diveristy groups often perpetuate divides rather than join people together.

 

The information my son was given about police, "Here is your cell phone. No matter what happens, you call me. You call your father. You go to a woman who has children and ask if you can use her phone to call us if yours is dead. Under NO circumstances do you EVER call the police. Your father and I will tell you to call if you need to. You call us. If the police show up, you call us immediately. I promise I will not get mad at you if you call me. I will never get mad at you if you call me."

 

You have no idea what it is like to fear for your child's daily interactions just because of their genetics or beliefs. You cannot learn that from diversity groups. You learn that being a minority. Make yourself a minority in a way you cannot escape and then you will not need a group to understand how what you asked is the very nature if the problem even though you had the best of intentions.

[Arcadia]

There are moms who tried organizing community outreach events here like block parties and movie nights. However it takes a few self centered ones and a few overstep boundaries ones to sour the events. I won't be offended but I would classify it as another feel good event. Kind of like those office team building events.

 

My area has many european expats so even the caucasians are from different nationalities. Asians are from different nationalities as well as different ethnic groups. While the hispanic/latinos are mainly from Mexico, we also have people from Portugal, Spain, Panama.

 

What's weird is how this plays out in my own family. All of my children are mixed-race (White & Asian). Most of them look mixed-race Asian, but I have one that looks full-on Asian and one that looks full-on White (blonde hair, blue eyes, freckles, the whole bit). The White child noticed from an early age that he was treated differently. I worry about him growing up in this town, that he also lacks exposure to diversity - which is silly because his entire family is diverse and we're steeped heavily in my ethnic culture (the food he eats, the customs we have, etc.) I worry more just because of how he looks and how his looks are received by the larger community.

Some teachers in the public school are obviously nicer to the caucasian spouse than the asian spouse during parent teacher meetings :(

 

My school district office gives a better response when my hubby puts Dr. when he signs off emails then when he don't. Same thing happens on phone calls with district office :(

 

My area is about 49% asian for population and 33% asian for public school kids. Still there is discrimination.

[Anacharsis]

Exposure without understanding can sometimes increase prejudice rather than decrease it. What exposure does is clear away myths.

 

If someone from another country had heard that white Southerners in America pledged allegiance to the Confederate flag rather than the American flag, for instance, meeting white American Southerners would show that that isn't true -- but it wouldn't explain the Confederate flag, either. Whenever a group has a distinctive item or practice but there is no context to explain it, people love to come up with "just-so stories" to fill the vacuum.

 

Just-so stories are much harder to get rid of once they have been established, because it is harder to show that an interpretation is false than it is to show that an observation is false.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Anacharsis

[J-rap]

I know your intentions are great, but I think I'd feel uncomfortable about it. (not offended, just uncomfortable)  It feels a little forced and therefore a bit awkward.  But I do respect that you have the enthusiasm to do something for a larger group beyond just your own children.  I just don't know what the answer is.

 

For our family, we have tried to have more natural interactions by simply being friendly and speaking with people of all types, wherever we are -- at the store, at the airport, on a bus, etc.  It probably helps that we have a wide range of different types of people within our circle of extended family.

[heartlikealion]

Even if no one was offended, I just don't see how that would work. Would you wait for people to volunteer or ask them to speak about their visible race/physical challenges/etc. in advance or just set up various topics and hope that during the event people might feel inclined to offer input? Mainly my gut reaction is, "people want to blend in. This would make lots of people uncomfortable."

[QueenCat]

As someone who is in a persecuted minority of the place I live, the entire idea that white children need to be informed how to act during a traffic stop makes me scoff. The information white kids learn is how to calmly interact with police and that calmly interacting works. What is also then learned is that those who do not have everything work out obviously did something wrong. They were not calm because they did something wrong. This is why such diveristy groups often perpetuate divides rather than join people together.

 

The information my son was given about police, "Here is your cell phone. No matter what happens, you call me. You call your father. You go to a woman who has children and ask if you can use her phone to call us if yours is dead. Under NO circumstances do you EVER call the police. Your father and I will tell you to call if you need to. You call us. If the police show up, you call us immediately. I promise I will not get mad at you if you call me. I will never get mad at you if you call me."

 

You have no idea what it is like to fear for your child's daily interactions just because of their genetics or beliefs. You cannot learn that from diversity groups. You learn that being a minority. Make yourself a minority in a way you cannot escape and then you will not need a group to understand how what you asked is the very nature if the problem even though you had the best of intentions.

 

I just want you to know that I was literally crying by the time I finished reading your post. It makes me sad that you and others have to teach your kids this, and I do not. Know that that you have my virtual support and fury, and that I stand by what I say. My 90% white church does have a BLM sign in front of it, to show it's support too.

[Guest]

In light of recent events, I was thinking about ways to help create a better future, and what we could do to promote peace and justice, and I got an idea for starting a group in my community. I'm a little hesitant, however, since I am new here, and don't know more than a handful of people, and most of them are similar to me.

 

My thought was to create a group for parents wanting to proactively end prejudice by getting their kids to increase their meaningful interactions with people who are different from them. It would be for increasing connections with people of different races, religions, ethnicities, economic levels, sexual orientations, and physical and mental abilities, etc, and for creating a safe community for people in minority groups to bring their kids. I thought maybe the events/meetings could rotate between parent/planning meetings with just adults to talk about issues and ideas; social, fun activities for the children/teens to encourage relationships with those different from them in some way; service projects within the community; and cultural and educational speakers or events- maybe having a police officer talk to the kids about how to handle a traffic stop and what to do if they feel threatened, an Imam talk about Islamic holidays, or someone with a physical disability talk about accessibility or something like that.

 

There would be dual purposes of reducing prejudice and increasing relationships among the individuals in the group, and reducing prejudice among the larger population not involved in the group as they see the group members interacting publicly and doing service projects. My reasoning is that kids, especially older ones, tend to socialize with people like them, and a lot of prejudice and discrimination is unconscious- people would say and feel they are not prejudiced while unconsciously doing, thinking, and saying discriminatory things. I think we can reduce prejudice in the future by consciously encouraging our kids to get involved with people who are different from themselves and by supporting those relationships.

 

Would you want to be a part of this if it were in your town, or would you be offended? I hope it's not offensive to minority groups (I'm pretty WASP, although I have kids with minor physical disabilities), but I can imagine someone thinking that they don't want their kids to be used for some white kid's enrichment....I'd really like it to be a safe and supportive group for everyone's benefit, though- where kids from all types of families could build relationships with other adults/parents that they may not otherwise get to know, and we'd all have more people looking out for our kids. Thoughts??

Being new in your community, I think you would have better luck with a club not based on assumptions such as 'white kid enrichment'. I have been the new kid several times, and what I have learned is that people want to know about character when they get to know you, and socioeconomics. Skin color or subgroup membership is irrelevant unless you are trying to enter a closed community, or an insular group is moving into your town. Its been interesting here as an insular group that ignores nongroup women has moved in...I was walked over about a dozen times before I decided to shop in the next town over and community leaders started meeting with the group in re public behavior. There is nothing I can do in outreach...the group simply does not speak to outsiders unless its a business transaction, and then it will never be a male group member to female nongroup member transaction. It has nothing to do with prejudice. This is how they have preserved their lifestyle.

[Carrie12345]

I've been soul searching extra hard these days, wondering if I've taught my middle class, homeschooled, white kids enough.  I've come to the conclusion that *I* probably haven't, but that it's still my job, to be done at home.
I have found that the following is pretty spot on:

 

 

 

 

This matches with my experience as a teacher and as a transracial adoptive parent, both when it comes to disability and when it comes to race and ethnicity.  I think that bringing kids together across difference is a very good idea, but I would have concerns about the kinds of activities you propose.  A time to come together and do art, or play soccer, or go to the zoo would be more powerful than the kinds of activities you discuss.   Now, I think that adults learn very differently from kids, and if the adults were talking specifically about diversity, I think that would be fine. 

 

While our homeschool community is only minimally diverse, our neighborhood is very diverse.  We throw all the kids outside to play with other kids.  We gather homeschoolers together to do homeschooly things.  No agendas, and it's all played out exactly as one would hope for.

 

Now that some of my kids are older, it isn't acceptance that I'm worried about.  They were born with that.  It's understanding and awareness of the issues my own kids don't see, because they don't happen to them.  But I can't place the burden of that education on our friends and acquaintances.  That needs to happen in our house and then, if their friends bring these subjects up, they will (hopefully) be informed enough to participate in the conversation, rather than monopolize it with their need to be filled in.

 

And, yes, I do feel rather inept and late to address these things, but that's for me to figure out.

[3 ladybugs]

I think it sound like it could have the potential of being a good idea.

 

I come from the very thing that most of us here DO NOT want. The area of the country where I grew up was (thankfully I don't think it is still) VERY white. VERY northern European white. There was one African American in my school. I think I was 18 when I met a Jewish person. Muslims were unheard of. Gays were around, and even at school. When I went out and explored the world I wasn't afraid to talk to minorities other then I feared I would unknowingly say something ignorant when I talked to them. When I moved away from there, I actually was afraid to be me (I am normally outgoing and love talking to strangers) in many situations at first because of this. Now I am more at ease with everyone. I live in a very ethnically diverse area now. We regularly interact with minorities on a nearly daily basis (hey I am a homeschooling mom, and there are days we don't leave the house). 

 

To me, I could see a group like this as a way of learning the social norms of other cultures and ethnic backgrounds that would help everyone. There are still areas that I know I need to learn, and I can't imagine there are not some minorities, or majorities, that people do not need to learn something about. Gee, my son is learning German and I am still learning the social norms of german culture! And one could argue I grew up with that! I think if the group was done in a fun, light manner, it could be good for everyone. 

[elegantlion]

For the group idea? I don't know. I don't think a group activity is a good idea, as noted above it could come across as "white entitled" class. I would also be hesitant to do so in a new community if you are not completely sure how newcomers are perceived. It COULD look like you moved there and decided that all the locals were backwards and needed this "education"

 

Ds and I did a lot of reading, watching movies that highlighted issues we weren't seeing in real life. That removes the local "side show" perception that might occur with this. 

 

I think your intentions are good, but it could wind up being something you didn't intend with just a few twists by some not as well intentioned people. 

 

 

 

As someone who is in a persecuted minority of the place I live, the entire idea that white children need to be informed how to act during a traffic stop makes me scoff. The information white kids learn is how to calmly interact with police and that calmly interacting works. What is also then learned is that those who do not have everything work out obviously did something wrong. They were not calm because they did something wrong. This is why such diveristy groups often perpetuate divides rather than join people together.

 

 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I've been thinking about this type of thing all week. My son looks like a long-haired white hippy. When an older relative was a teen, he had a similar appearance and got pulled over repeatedly in the affluent area in which he lived. Even in the twenty years since then, that has changed, ds could pass for a hipster behind the wheel. Very different connotation. It hurts (don't really know what to say without sounding trite), it hurts my sense of humanity that some parents have to have very different conversations and protocol for their children based upon the color of their skin. 

[KungFuPanda]

The description sounds like my secular co-op. I wouldn't have joined if the purpose was to prove that my disabled child is equal to the other kids. Getting me out of planning science projects IS a motivation to join.

 

Trying to collect "different" kids like Pokemon so the program works will probably backfire. You're better off planning a field trip to a more diverse area or ethnic event and striking up and maintaining friendships with kids who don't look like your kids. Heck, spend a few hours each week at a more diverse playground. When kids are raised in diversity, they see the world differently and their social justice radar becomes much more finely tuned.

Edited July 10, 2016 by KungFuPanda

[QueenCat]

 Heck, spend a few hours each week at a more diverse playground. When kids are raised in diversity, they see the world differently and their social justice radar becomes much more finely tuned.

 

I grew up in the town you live in, and very much grew up not knowing the world wasn't diverse. I grew up with a very diverse group of friends. It was SHOCKING beyond shocking when I moved to Georgia.

[Daria]

I think it sound like it could have the potential of being a good idea.

 

I come from the very thing that most of us here DO NOT want. The area of the country where I grew up was (thankfully I don't think it is still) VERY white. VERY northern European white. There was one African American in my school. I think I was 18 when I met a Jewish person. Muslims were unheard of. Gays were around, and even at school. When I went out and explored the world I wasn't afraid to talk to minorities other then I feared I would unknowingly say something ignorant when I talked to them. When I moved away from there, I actually was afraid to be me (I am normally outgoing and love talking to strangers) in many situations at first because of this. Now I am more at ease with everyone. I live in a very ethnically diverse area now. We regularly interact with minorities on a nearly daily basis (hey I am a homeschooling mom, and there are days we don't leave the house). 

 

To me, I could see a group like this as a way of learning the social norms of other cultures and ethnic backgrounds that would help everyone. There are still areas that I know I need to learn, and I can't imagine there are not some minorities, or majorities, that people do not need to learn something about. Gee, my son is learning German and I am still learning the social norms of german culture! And one could argue I grew up with that! I think if the group was done in a fun, light manner, it could be good for everyone. 

 

The way to learn the social norms of another culture is to spend time within that culture. 

 

In my experience of racially mixed groups like this, unless you have very very capable facilitation, the norms of the group will approximate the norms of white American culture.  AA people in particular have a lot of experience with code switching, and so they'll be the ones to acclimate. 

 

It would be easy, in that setting, for children to come away with the opposite perception than intended, which is that "good" black people are those who act like their own family, and to see behavior that is different from their family as "bad" rather than cultural.  

 

I think the intentions here are absolutely right.  Race is a huge issue in our country, and parents need to figure out how to help their kids understand and navigate it, starting it at an early age.  I'm just not sure that this particular model is the way to do it.

 

Intentionally seeking out both diverse communities, and communities where one's group is either a minority or not represented.  Participating fully in those communities and building 1:1 relationships with the families you meet, is going to give kids more authentic experiences with other cultures.

[Caroline]

The way to learn the social norms of another culture is to spend time within that culture.

 

In my experience of racially mixed groups like this, unless you have very very capable facilitation, the norms of the group will approximate the norms of white American culture. AA people in particular have a lot of experience with code switching, and so they'll be the ones to acclimate.

 

It would be easy, in that setting, for children to come away with the opposite perception than intended, which is that "good" black people are those who act like their own family, and to see behavior that is different from their family as "bad" rather than cultural.

 

I think the intentions here are absolutely right. Race is a huge issue in our country, and parents need to figure out how to help their kids understand and navigate it, starting it at an early age. I'm just not sure that this particular model is the way to do it.

 

Intentionally seeking out both diverse communities, and communities where one's group is either a minority or not represented. Participating fully in those communities and building 1:1 relationships with the families you meet, is going to give kids more authentic experiences with other cultures.

I agree. You said it much better than I could have.

[QueenCat]

I grew up in the town you live in, and very much grew up not knowing the world wasn't diverse. I grew up with a very diverse group of friends. It was SHOCKING beyond shocking when I moved to Georgia.

 

Quoting myself instead of editing......... lol........ I knew the world was diverse. I didn't realize we had as big of a racial problem as we did in the U.S. In 1990, in suburban Atlanta, I found KKK pamphlets on my car.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Quoting myself instead of editing......... lol........ I knew the world was diverse. I didn't realize we had as big of a racial problem as we did in the U.S. In 1990, in suburban Atlanta, I found KKK pamphlets on my car.

 

I found white supremacist pamphlets on our car just a few years ago.  We live in a very diverse area in the PNW.  We are an inter-racial family. 

 

I had skinheads following me once hassling me for being with my husband.  I'm the white person in the family.  I was seen as a traitor. 

 

But in the day to day, our general area seems friendly to all races. 

[Guest]

Quoting myself instead of editing......... lol........ I knew the world was diverse. I didn't realize we had as big of a racial problem as we did in the U.S. In 1990, in suburban Atlanta, I found KKK pamphlets on my car.

When I moved here, a few fellow ex-military brats were forthright and marked my subway and county map up for me. The crack cocaine epidemic was roaring, and a person would be jumped if you didnt belong to the group in certain areas. Most of that is gone now, in daytime, but we still have one library that has a security guard to promote a peaceful experience between vehicle/bus stop and library door.

 

The racist accusations at the school have stopped....kids were being accused right and left as retaliaton when they told disruptors to stop. Security guards and a new protocol for those who arent interested in participating in the classroom as learners has changed the school back into a place of learning.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[StephanieZ]

FWIW, over a decade ago, I was starting up a homeschooler Daisy Scout troop. I lived in an area (northern VA) with tons of homeschoolers of all sorts, but the largest organizations/co-ops/etc were "Christian" with Statements of Faith for participation. I was/am very much NOT in accord with that line of exclusivity (even back then, when we were practicing Episcopalians and so could have, ourselves, fit into the Christian crowd . . . but I did NOT want my children raised with that sort of thinking). Anyway, I wanted to attract a diverse group. I simply listed my group as "inclusive" and it worked like a snap to attract a wide range of folks, none of whom expected/demanded/wanted the group to exclude others based on faith/etc. I have used that trick repeatedly over the years . . . Just put the word "inclusive" in your group description to attract a diverse crowd and establish that diversity as a founding principle of the group (thus avoiding anyone who will want/require/request a Statement of Faith or similar exclusivity). 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

Trying to collect "different" kids like Pokemon so the program works...

 

OMG.

 

THANK you so much for this. I finally know what to call that thing when I receive a brochure in the mail (from a church in an all-white neighborhood OR from a church with a denominational history of racism and segregation), where there is a carefully staged, professional photograph of the most stereotype of each kind of kid...as if you're really going to see a black boy and an Asian girl in this church, ever...

 

I used to call it "Bennetton Youth Group" but this is so much better.

[marbel]

Nm.  Trying to ask a question but not getting it right.  

Edited July 10, 2016 by marbel

[Daria]

When I moved here, a few fellow ex-military brats were forthright and marked my subway and county map up for me. The crack cocaine epidemic was roaring, and a person would be jumped if you didnt belong to the group in certain areas. Most of that is gone now, in daytime, but we still have one library that has a security guard to promote a peaceful experience between vehicle/bus stop and library door.

 

The racist accusations at the school have stopped....kids were being accused right and left as retaliaton when they told disruptors to stop. Security guards and a new protocol for those who arent interested in participating in the classroom as learners has changed the school back into a place of learning.

I am really not sure how to read this post in the context of this conversation. I very much want to give the benefit of the doubt, but . . . Can you explain to me how this comment, which seems on the surface to be about ignoring allegations of racism and using security officers to remove children from classrooms is relevant?

[Pen]

I would prefer that parents in my community would become friends in a meaningful way with me--accepting whatever about me does not fit with their own backgrounds and belief systems, rather than try to form a group for kids to learn about this sort of thing.  And ditto for accepting and becoming meaningful friends with other adults in the community with whatever their differences as to background, belief, etc, are.  I think kids would learn more from what parents actually do, than from what a group might preach. 

[Pen]

In light of recent events, I was thinking about ways to help create a better future, and what we could do to promote peace and justice, and I got an idea for starting a group in my community. I'm a little hesitant, however, since I am new here, and don't know more than a handful of people, and most of them are similar to me.

 

My thought was to create a group for parents wanting to proactively end prejudice by getting their kids to increase their meaningful interactions with people who are different from them. It would be for increasing connections with people of different races, religions, ethnicities, economic levels, sexual orientations, and physical and mental abilities, etc, and for creating a safe community for people in minority groups to bring their kids. I thought maybe the events/meetings could rotate between parent/planning meetings with just adults to talk about issues and ideas; social, fun activities for the children/teens to encourage relationships with those different from them in some way; service projects within the community; and cultural and educational speakers or events- maybe having a police officer talk to the kids about how to handle a traffic stop and what to do if they feel threatened, an Imam talk about Islamic holidays, or someone with a physical disability talk about accessibility or something like that.

 

There would be dual purposes of reducing prejudice and increasing relationships among the individuals in the group, and reducing prejudice among the larger population not involved in the group as they see the group members interacting publicly and doing service projects. My reasoning is that kids, especially older ones, tend to socialize with people like them, and a lot of prejudice and discrimination is unconscious- people would say and feel they are not prejudiced while unconsciously doing, thinking, and saying discriminatory things. I think we can reduce prejudice in the future by consciously encouraging our kids to get involved with people who are different from themselves and by supporting those relationships.

 

Would you want to be a part of this if it were in your town, or would you be offended? I hope it's not offensive to minority groups (I'm pretty WASP, although I have kids with minor physical disabilities), but I can imagine someone thinking that they don't want their kids to be used for some white kid's enrichment....I'd really like it to be a safe and supportive group for everyone's benefit, though- where kids from all types of families could build relationships with other adults/parents that they may not otherwise get to know, and we'd all have more people looking out for our kids. Thoughts?? 

 

 

 

I'd start with yourself, in other words, and try to diversify your own meaningful friendships.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Get to know people because you genuinely like them - not because they fill a quota.  The person who told me "I"m glad that you and your husband are our friends.  I didn't have any friends in inter-racial marriages before you" - is not a close friend.  I felt like she focused on things that we don't even think about. 

 

 

[marbel]

Get to know people because you genuinely like them - not because they fill a quota.  The person who told me "I"m glad that you and your husband are our friends.  I didn't have any friends in inter-racial marriages before you" - is not a close friend.  I felt like she focused on things that we don't even think about. 

 

This reminded me - though it is not quite the same - of the time a friend of mine went on and on to me talking about another friend's "cool bi-cultural marriage."   She herself was in a bi-cultural marriage.

 

Finally I had to say that I was sorry for being in a boring mono-cultural marriage.  LOL. 

 

[TranquilMind]

I would not be offended. I live in an officially diverse area of the nation and this type of club is in every high school. Its usually called Unity Club and will have very interesting monthly events.

Yep. It's a regular thing now.

[poppy]

My church has a group like that called the Racial Justice Task Force. All races welcome .

[Jean in Newcastle]

I keep thinking about this thread, Outside of simply having an inclusive group, or a group focused on service projects (at least in part), I personally would wonder what the point was of the group.  I know you said what the point is, I understand that.  It's just that in our diverse inclusive community no one really spends any time talking about race and culture that much.  I mean, one set of neighbors is from Kenya, which I know because they told me and they have a Kenyan flag displayed, but we talk about our dogs and our gardens etc.  I don't expect them to educate me on what it feels like to be Kenyan.  This afternoon I'm going to a baby shower which will be, in part, Laotian, and apart from some really yummy food, we're going to be just talking and socializing like we would with any friends and family.  In this community, highlighting racial and cultural differences would seem to accentuate the differences instead of highlighting the similarities that there really are between peoples of all cultures and races.  No one is ashamed of their race and culture but we don't highlight it.

 

Despite being white, I was raised in another culture, and while I'm happy to answer any questions, I find the people who focus on that to the exclusion of all else to be like those people who label me as a "homeschooler" and who are then afraid to talk to me about normal subjects.  It focuses on the "otherness" instead of just letting me be me. 

 

I'd be interested in knowing if other people feel that way as well or if I'm "other" in my feeling this way. 

[QueenCat]

I found white supremacist pamphlets on our car just a few years ago.  We live in a very diverse area in the PNW.  We are an inter-racial family. 

 

I had skinheads following me once hassling me for being with my husband.  I'm the white person in the family.  I was seen as a traitor. 

 

But in the day to day, our general area seems friendly to all races. 

 

 

:crying: So sad to hear that kind of thing, really sad.

[QueenCat]

When I moved here, a few fellow ex-military brats were forthright and marked my subway and county map up for me. The crack cocaine epidemic was roaring, and a person would be jumped if you didnt belong to the group in certain areas. Most of that is gone now, in daytime, but we still have one library that has a security guard to promote a peaceful experience between vehicle/bus stop and library door.

 

The racist accusations at the school have stopped....kids were being accused right and left as retaliaton when they told disruptors to stop. Security guards and a new protocol for those who arent interested in participating in the classroom as learners has changed the school back into a place of learning.

 

Really awful to hear and know these kind of things happen first hand. This is why I don't understand why people think it's not happening and that certain races aren't profiled.

[QueenCat]

My church has a group like that called the Racial Justice Task Force. All races welcome .

 

Our church has a group with that exact name. Wondering if we go to the same type of church....

[Hilltopmom]

Try the Unitarian church or a social justice club. No sense re inventing the wheel;)

[Paige]

Try the Unitarian church or a social justice club. No sense re inventing the wheel;)

 

I looked for one and didn't see anything. 

 

I appreciate the comments. I probably shouldn't have posted on the weekend when I couldn't keep up with everyone's posts!

 

Some rambling thoughts....

 

I think many of you are right about the activities and such. My initial thought was to start a meetup for parents/moms who were interested in talking about social justice type things in our community, meeting over coffee etc., but then thought- no, I need fun, activities for kids, etc to make people interested. I was trying too hard and should just focus on grown up talk first and see what people think, want to do, and how they feel first. I was going to do a mom's group but then I felt hypocritical for having an inclusive mom's/ladies social group because I would be excluding dad's! 

 

 

I agree that throwing random kids together may lead to counter-productive interactions, which is why I was hoping for significant parent involvement and guidance- more of a family thing than a kid thing. I actually have seen this in my own family. My kids went to a school with a minority majority from K-1st. One of them wore leg braces at the time and couldn't walk, run, etc as well as the other kids and missed a lot of class for doctor appointments and therapy. She was told she wasn't allowed to play on the playground with the other kids (by the kids) but that her twin could because they didn't want to play with cripples. It was not fun. I don't blame the kids, because 5yr olds are babies, and I don't blame the teacher because the class size was too large for her to be expected to know everything, and my DD kept quiet. I don't blame anyone, but my DD had a problem trusting kids of color for a long time. She was already shy, so it made it even harder to convince her to talk to people. I tried to help her to not generalize, and I think she's moved on, but I had to be very proactive for a while. She was a baby too...I don't think it was anyone's fault, but stuff like that happens and without adults there to help kids work things out, outcomes won't always be good.

 

I still think that kids need a push, though, and we need to talk about racism, sexism, etc., openly and not just model tolerance and being polite. When we have guests, I tell my kids to be nice and to be good hosts. They are still shy and would prefer to hide in their rooms. One of them typically tells me that she will be polite and I always tell her that polite is not enough. Being only polite is borderline rude. She needs to show some genuine interest in whoever is coming over- ask the kids what they like to do, get something out to play with, talk more than just answering their questions with one word... I think that inclusiveness is similar- being polite is not enough.

[SKL]

I do prefer activities that draw diverse kids.  But they need to have some focus or structure other than a focus on race.  If it were structured like some sort of scouting organization or similar, then sure.  I like the idea of a group organized to do volunteer work - though it can be very difficult to find volunteer opportunities for young kids.

[mamiof5]

As someone who is in a persecuted minority of the place I live, the entire idea that white children need to be informed how to act during a traffic stop makes me scoff. The information white kids learn is how to calmly interact with police and that calmly interacting works. What is also then learned is that those who do not have everything work out obviously did something wrong. They were not calm because they did something wrong. This is why such diveristy groups often perpetuate divides rather than join people together.

 

The information my son was given about police, "Here is your cell phone. No matter what happens, you call me. You call your father. You go to a woman who has children and ask if you can use her phone to call us if yours is dead. Under NO circumstances do you EVER call the police. Your father and I will tell you to call if you need to. You call us. If the police show up, you call us immediately. I promise I will not get mad at you if you call me. I will never get mad at you if you call me."

 

You have no idea what it is like to fear for your child's daily interactions just because of their genetics or beliefs. You cannot learn that from diversity groups. You learn that being a minority. Make yourself a minority in a way you cannot escape and then you will not need a group to understand how what you asked is the very nature if the problem even though you had the best of intentions.

I couldn't like your post, it just didn't feel right to "like" it. I'm so sorry this is what you have to teach your children! Gosh! It should never be that way. I'm sorry :(

[gardenmom5]

:crying: So sad to hear that kind of thing, really sad.

 

jean and I aren't far from each other.  It was probably about the same time we had the same type of skinhead pamphlets left on our driveway.  I reported it to the police - they said they'd received many calls.  but they couldn't do anything if no one saw who deposited them.  no leads.

 

we are in a very diverse area. 

 

I wouldn't join such a club - as I'd want to know "the point".  sitting around and talking about race and ethnicity only emphasizes differences and would feel patronizing.

science club, sports club, service club, etc. would be more effective as you get kids from different groups working together towards a common goal, but where they can be themselves.  it focuses on how people are the same,  that does bring people together.

[Liz CA]

This whole thread is interesting to me since I never thought about people being a different race, they are ...people. Of course I live in a state that is diverse, even our farily small town is diverse.

I think - as far as children are concerned - we lead by example.

 

Years ago when ds attended private school (I think 3rd grade?), he had a good friend. This boy happened to be the son of  African Americans. Now my ds is the child of two Caucasians and was as bleached blond as they come in his younger years. During open house at the school, the little friend's parents and dh and I were talking to each other when my ds wanted to introduce a new teacher to us - his parents. He pointed dh and me out very specifically, then added that the other parents were friend's parents. It never occurred to him that the teacher may come to the conclusion that friend belongs with the African American couple...because he was just another kid and we were just two sets of parents.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Liz CA