Jump to content

Menu

Child drug into water by alligator at Disney World


Catalytic
 Share

Recommended Posts

I suppose, but I was not raised in an area with gators but I still knew about them. I would have thought that was as much common knowledge until I read this thread, frankly. It never occurred to me that it wasn't. Then again, I could have selective memory from my years of actually living in FL. Who knows?

 

And like someone else said, it's more of a case of freak accident than common occurrence or regular, general threat, based on the history of gator attacks in florida, and gator behavior in general.

 

I don't know. I see your point, but it's not so clear cut to me. Regardless, it's horrific, and I'd be shocked if they didn't do something different going forwarrd.

If they know there is an animal on their property that can leave the water to attack someone, then they do have a duty to inform guests. If there had never been gators on Disney property, this would be a different matter.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Yes, Disney will settle with the family. Yes, there will be new signs... but I don't really think it's a matter of negligence.

 

Honestly no one could foresee it. Sometimes freak things happen. Freak horrifying things.

 

But it IS foreseeable, which is why every freaking lake around here, canal, etc has a sign up saying beware of alligators. I can't begin to express how common the signs are. If every public park, waterway, etc has these signs up, it must be something people are aware of. That Disney didn't is crazy to me. 

 

These are the signs. They are all over the freaking place. 146982407_0297161b93_z.jpg?zz=1

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may or may not have referred to some folks on my FB feed as ignorant buffoons.

 

If it were my friends, I'd make a blanket post :-/  It's just the random public with their comments on the news' FB pages where it's being reported.  It's just a truly tragic, heartbreaking situation, and all the "where were the parents" "who lets a 2 year old near water alone" etc, ugh, just ugh.

 

Remember that 30 million people a year visit Walt Disney World. Terrible things occasionally happen in any group that size.

 

There has NOT been a history of alligator attacks on Seven Seas Lagoon.

 

"Since 1948, there have been 23 alligator fatalities, not including those currently under investigation." (in ALL of Florida) see; http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0615/Is-Florida-s-alligator-management-system-failing

 

Yes, the event is tragic. Horrifyingly so. Yes, I am heartbroken for the family.

 

Yes, Disney will settle with the family. Yes, there will be new signs... but I don't really think it's a matter of negligence.

 

Honestly no one could foresee it. Sometimes freak things happen. Freak horrifying things.

 

This is kind of my line of thought.  Whether they are legally culpable, though, I have no doubt Disney will try to take care of the family.

 

Damn, here come the tears again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it were my friends, I'd make a blanket post :-/ It's just the random public with their comments on the news' FB pages where it's being reported. It's just a truly tragic, heartbreaking situation, and all the "where were the parents" "who lets a 2 year old near water alone" etc, ugh, just ugh.

 

 

This is kind of my line of thought. Whether they are legally culpable, though, I have no doubt Disney will try to take care of the family.

 

Damn, here come the tears again.

These are friends. Any friend of mine who said that would be snap unfriended.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this was a tragic freak accident. Not that that keeps anyone from suing anyone. And I'm sure from a PR stance, Disney will settle regardless.

 

I think I'm really glad my Fb feed is private and very restricted bc I never have anyone post any such crazy parent blame nonsense for the gorriilla incident or this gater one. Or just in general. Who needs "friends" like that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm from the midwest, and if I saw a "NO SWIMMING" sign on a water feature my mind would go to a water quality issue and I wouldn't let my kids touch it. 

 

I've seen gators in small bodies of water near people in FL and I'm very much an infrequent tourist there. 

 

I think the sign thing is hard.  There are other natural hazards in outdoor bodies of water and how can one list them all?  Maybe the signs should say "Danger - do not enter water"?  I read No swimming as stay away but evidently not everyone does.  Disney could stand to lose a big lawsuit, but I would feel bad if a small business owner got sued for this reason.   I'd be shocked if Disney just doesn't give them a very large settlement. 

 

Anyway, I'm heart broken for this family and it's a terrible tragedy.  Unfortunately, nature can be unpredictable. 

 

Orlando hotels have big bodies of water with posted signs. One hotel had a large prominent sign, another had many small signs. The signs were clearly meant to educate guests and the signs included the importance of not feeding.

 

The sign thing is not hard. Plus it's part of the Orlando-culture. I've seen them in many Orlando hotels.

 

Alley

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But it IS foreseeable, which is why every freaking lake around here, canal, etc has a sign up saying beware of alligators. I can't begin to express how common the signs are. If every public park, waterway, etc has these signs up, it must be something people are aware of. That Disney didn't is crazy to me. 

 

These are the signs. They are all over the freaking place. 146982407_0297161b93_z.jpg?zz=1

 

Exactly.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose, but I was not raised in an area with gators but I still knew about them.  I would have thought that was as much common knowledge until I read this thread, frankly.  It never occurred to me that it wasn't.  Then again, I could have selective memory from my years of actually living in FL.  Who knows?  

 

 

It's amazing the things that tourists don't think about that are really quite important.  People visiting my local medieval town rent enormous cars and then ask others to move so that they can manage to park - yes, someone got out of their ill-parked car and asked me to move so that they could park.  There is a strong assumption among travellers that other places will be like home but with extra fun bits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this was a tragic freak accident. Not that that keeps anyone from suing anyone. And I'm sure from a PR stance, Disney will settle regardless.

 

I think I'm really glad my Fb feed is private and very restricted bc I never have anyone post any such crazy parent blame nonsense for the gorriilla incident or this gater one. Or just in general. Who needs "friends" like that?

 

I think I worded it badly.  It's not my "friends" saying stuff, it's that I have a lot of "friends" in the area (because I grew up there/went to junior and high school there), so they're posting (local) news articles.  It's the comments from Joe Blow on the news articles FB pages that are so sickening.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

About a year ago or so, there was a small gator near a bus stop at the Pop ( I think it was the Pop). Disney had workers there trying to keep people away from it while the animal team came. People were trying still take pictures with the gator and go around the workers. I believe one person even told off a worker saying Disney should have trained the gator so they could have a picture.

 

The small gators that they find around WDW are usually temporarily housed in the greenhouse over at Epcot.  Dd and I took the "Behind the Seeds" tour this past April and saw them.  There were a lot.  A. LOT.

 

And I still never thought about the fact that they can't get all of them, and there are still gators in the waters. 

 

This poor family has been on my mind all day.  And I'm thinking about all the others families staying at the GF who may have been a witness to the aftermath last night, and then are trying to continue on their family vacations today.  I'm sure the mood is pretty somber.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I worded it badly. It's not my "friends" saying stuff, it's that I have a lot of "friends" in the area (because I grew up there/went to junior and high school there), so they're posting (local) news articles. It's the comments from Joe Blow on the news articles FB pages that are so sickening.

Oh no. Never read the com boxes.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I worded it badly.  It's not my "friends" saying stuff, it's that I have a lot of "friends" in the area (because I grew up there/went to junior and high school there), so they're posting (local) news articles.  It's the comments from Joe Blow on the news articles FB pages that are so sickening.

 

I know what you mean.   I never click on those comments.  Never read them even if they don't need clicking.  Don't ever read youtube comments either.  Seriously, you must discipline yourself not to read them because for some reason they are almost always stupid, ignorant, jerky, horrible.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I recall at the "beach" at the Polynesian resort, there's a larger, more detailed warning sign (wildlife, bacteria, watercraft?) before you get to the sand and water. I don't remember anything specific about alligators, but I could be wrong. There's a prominent NO SWIMMING sign with a circle and line through the swimmer on it that is planted right at the water's edge. I put beach in quotes because it's not a beach in the sense that you are there to do anything with the water at all. The water is swampy and murky. It's not inviting. I assume the ground cover is sand vs grass because they have to put something that is safe for the water (with it being part of the ecosystem with inlets and outlets) and will stand up to foot traffic and weather. It's a place to watch movies or fireworks. I would guess they completely revamp the areas entirely now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or getting into your car at the airport with the empty car seat in the backseat.  Or packing up and not knowing what to do with those little tiny pajamas that still smell like wonderful toddler. 

 

*sob*

 

And coming home to the empty bedroom.   

I have been thinking about that too. It just makes me cry. It is so horrifying.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh no. Never read the com boxes.

 

Usually my rule. Orlando Sentinel has them prominently displayed and I inadvertently saw them while trying to read the story. And while searching on twitter. Lots of alligator wrangler/parenting experts in the world. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My husband works at Disney, and was part of the team that responded. He got home a couple of hours ago and was very tired and sad. I agree with Kgrok. It has been a very hard week in Orlando.

Please thank your dh for their efforts to try to find this little boy. I literally haven't been able to stop thinking of him and his family:(
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is anyone else horrified that the news networks have helicopters flying over the lake while they bring in this boy's body? Like the parents aren't in enough pain without the networks turning it into entertainment. :(

I am always horrified by the media. I've always attributed it to my being very private. I don't even like crying in front of dh or being in family pictures.

 

I think it's just sick voyeurism and sensationalism. I wish it was illegal. I know it likely never will be and I get why, but it's just ... nasty.

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is anyone else horrified that the news networks have helicopters flying over the lake while they bring in this boy's body? Like the parents aren't in enough pain without the networks turning it into entertainment. :(

No respect at all for this family's dignity. =-O

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am always horrified by the media. I've always attributed it to my being very private. I don't even like crying in front of dh or being in family pictures.

 

I think it's just sick voyeurism and sensationalism. I wish it was illegal. I know it likely never will be and I get why, but it's just ... nasty.

Agreed 100%. Sick.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Living forever in CA, then on East Coast, now in Atlanta -- people from the Midwest just wouldn't think about alligators. Yes, Floridians do. Even Georgians do, but outside of the South, it's just not something anyone would think about. Maybe a passing thought, but that's about it.

 

 

My .02: Disney only posted "Do Not Swim" signs because they didn't want to post a scary sign that said "Alligators! Beware!"

 

 

 

 

Orlando hotels with giant man made lakes have posted signs saying "alligators, do not feed" etc. etc. One hotel had one prominent sign. Another hotel had many smaller signs. And it wasn't "every five feet," but the signs helped to educate their guests. Which was awesome of the hotel.

 

Disney can afford to put signs up -- especially given that they have visitors from around the world who don't know Florida the way you do.

 

 

 

 

(Not arguing, just pondering)  On that statement...many people who visit Disney don't speak English...I wonder what the culpability is (had there been a sign saying beware of alligators in English) if the child had been of non-English speaking parents.

 

 

 

That's what I meant in my post when I said if anyone is to blame it's Disney. Yes, the attack was a rare freak occurrence, but Disney could have, should have, signs that are more clear. Not just No Swimming. The child was not swimming, just wading around in the water. Non-residents or people who live where alligators aren't a normal part of life, would not, should not be expected to know that there very well could be gators in a resort lake such as that one.

 

For those who don't speak English, a picture like the one Katie posted below can say it all. Or even just a drawing/picture of an alligator and a picture of people in the water with the international No sign (red circle with slash).

 

But it IS foreseeable, which is why every freaking lake around here, canal, etc has a sign up saying beware of alligators. I can't begin to express how common the signs are. If every public park, waterway, etc has these signs up, it must be something people are aware of. That Disney didn't is crazy to me. 

 

These are the signs. They are all over the freaking place. 146982407_0297161b93_z.jpg?zz=1

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is anyone else horrified that the news networks have helicopters flying over the lake while they bring in this boy's body? Like the parents aren't in enough pain without the networks turning it into entertainment. :(

 

I've heard it called grief-porn: the way the media goes on and on when a tragedy has occurred.

 

The media morons are now releasing the parents' names and the little boy's name. What's the point of that?!

 

An Orlando reporter gave the full names on Twitter: mom, dad, and boy.

 

It's awful. So much for "do unto others."

 

Alley

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am outraged at the media having heard your reports above.  I have not watched any tv at all today.  That's typical for me...I watch some but very little.

 

Media sources often act like circus clowns (no pun at all for any circus performers here!).  The negative stories day in and day out are precisely why I stopped watching the news about 15 years ago.  One night I counted up a dozen or so "lead" stories that were negative (burglary, r#pe, d$ug numbers increase or whatever, mu%der, and the list went on).  

 

Now I don't want my head in the sand but how can it be when now we hear stories repeated again.and.again.and.again.   FWIW, I do get the news.  If it's THAT important, people will learn about it b/c it will be on a loooooong loop.

 

To be fair to media though, they must report this incident as news.  It will provide some educational insight to the viewing audience.  IOW, something will be learned from this terrible event.

 

Still, the way they go about getting the information leaves much to be desired.   Agree with Mergath and Murphy.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone is complaining that the incident is being reported as news.

 

News:

A young child was dragged into water by an alligator at a Disney park. The father was holding his child's hand near the edge of the water when the sudden attack happened and was unable to stop the attack. A dive team has been sent to recover the body of the child and remove the gater.

 

See? No problem with that.

 

No helicopter spotlighting body retrieval necessary.

No news reporter shoving a camera and mic in grieving or horrified faces to ask dumbass stuff like, "How do you feel about this?"

 

There's reporting news and then there's.... This other far too common thing going on.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've heard it called grief-porn: the way the media goes on and on when a tragedy has occurred.

 

The media morons are now releasing the parents' names and the little boy's name. What's the point of that?!

 

An Orlando reporter gave the full names on Twitter: mom, dad, and boy.

 

It's awful. So much for "do unto others."

 

Alley

 

The names were released in a press conference by law enforcement this afternoon. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The names were released in a press conference by law enforcement this afternoon.

Yeah. I guess if the family is okay with it, then who are we to complain, but I bet no one asked the family.

 

I don't like it when law enforcement does it either.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

+1

I do sometimes and hate humanity.

Seriously. I'm generally pro-life, anti-death penalty, etc. but sometimes the comments I read make me wish a few people were wiped from the gene pool.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seriously. I'm generally pro-life, anti-death penalty, etc. but sometimes the comments I read make me wish a few people were wiped from the gene pool.

I say that stupid jerks disprove Darwin everyday bc after this many generations his theory should have kicked in by now.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am always horrified by the media. I've always attributed it to my being very private. I don't even like crying in front of dh or being in family pictures.

 

I think it's just sick voyeurism and sensationalism. I wish it was illegal. I know it likely never will be and I get why, but it's just ... nasty.

I avoid it as much as possible with just using written and audio sources for news, which aren't the breaking wires or gossip rags. Some of it is unavoidable but outside of active natural disaster updates I really prefer the analysis after the fact and not breaking coverage. The 24/7 news cycle isn't for me and I'm a lot happier without it.

 

I'm glad they found his body and the family didn't have that lack of closure with no body to bury. It's just absolutely heartbreaking they have to do it at all and I'm completely baffled over the people castigating this family over what can only be called a freak accident. Heartless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, and he was wading where it was just a couple inches deep. I would have thought that would be safe! I would not have taken that to be swimming. 

 

The updates seem to be making it clear that he was in roughly a foot of water - just clarifying because it would be even more unusual if the gator had actually exited the water. They can and do, but this unusual event is more likely to happen in eight to twelve inches of water rather than one or two. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having only ever lived in locales where there are no alligators, I am beginning to wonder how and when Floridians venture out, walk their dogs, walk with their kids?

An attack is rare. You just coexist. Our home in Florida back up to a retention pond and there were often small gators in them. They never bothered anyone. Spotting a black bear in the neighborhood wasn't all that rare either.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having only ever lived in locales where there are no alligators, I am beginning to wonder how and when Floridians venture out, walk their dogs, walk with their kids?

 

I'm not in Florida, but Louisiana has even MORE alligators. 

 

Every so often, someone in my area will have a gator show up in their yard, usually after lots of heavy rain that turns most everything into a waterway. That's unusual, though - you aren't going to see gators as you walk your dog on the sidewalks around your suburban neighborhood. If you do, it's a freak occurrence that you can't plan for. 

 

You have to take much more care on nature trails and near bodies of water. I used to volunteer at the nature preserve near our house, and you would not believe the people who insisted they should be able to walk their dogs on the trails! There are gators everywhere there; it's not at all unusual for them to block the path to catch a bit of sun. 

 

They move the huge alligators to more remote areas of the park, but obviously smaller ones can still kill small prey. The biggest danger to a toddler is when they are on the ground with a dog walking near them; this greatly increases the chances of a gator seeing them as prey. Still, I wanted my kids to have a bit more size on them before having them on the ground in an area known to be (and meant to be) populated by gators. 

 

Alligators are not generally aggressive during the day with adult humans around. It is very common to see them in canals and drainage ditches, on golf courses, near and on the highway, and so on. You just walk away, and call animal control if it's a good size or in a neighborhood. 

 

The biggest danger is in or near the water at night, but alligator attacks on people of any age are still incredibly rare. I don't worry about it anymore than I do about getting bit by a shark or a snake - in other words, probably more than I should, but not enough to keep me out of the water.  

 

Anything can happen, but even toddlers are very safe if an adult is right next to them, because their larger size will deter alligators. You can't be even a couple of feet away, but of course that also applies to other water dangers like getting pulled into a current or simply slipping under the surface. It's harder than people think to find a small person underneath the water, even when it's not dark. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

(Not arguing, just pondering) On that statement...many people who visit Disney don't speak English...I wonder what the culpability is (had there been a sign saying beware of alligators in English) if the child had been of non-English speaking parents.

 

Had to stay off FB today, every time I get on there, my feed is just filled with the story (half my friend list lives in the area, high school classmates) and people are just slamming the parents. I just want to scream "have some compassion!"

It would have to be a picture sign as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No kidding. That poor father will probably need suicide watching for years as he forever relives the last seconds he saw his son alive and wasn't able to save him. It's not like this is some common problem we can discuss to learn from and prevent. It wasn't. This is rare and unusual. It was a freak accident of nature and yet I'm sure he will blame himself for the rest of his life anyways.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No kidding. That poor father will probably need suicide watching for years as he forever relives the last seconds he saw his son alive and wasn't able to save him. It's not like this is some common problem we can discuss to learn from and prevent. It wasn't. This is rare and unusual. It was a freak accident of nature and yet I'm sure he will blame himself for the rest of his life anyways.

 

I didn't want to "like" this, so I quoted instead.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't read the thread, but freak accidents happen and blaming is pointless. I have family who have friends who lost a child in a bizarre accident where it was an LDS church function with tons of supervision. There was nothing anyone could have done. Tragedy is sometimes unavoidable.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding living in florida...my parent's house, where I lived with my son for a while, had a canal behind it. Gators lived in it. Big ones were reported and removed by trappers. We had a fence between the house and the canal, so the dogs couldn't go in the water, or near it. We did sometimes go out the gate and walk along the water, but kept a few feet from the water. Same anywhere else, you just keep a foot or two between you and the water. Obviously, we don't swim in fresh water much! The exception are the natural springs, with are crystal clear so a gator is easily spotted, and I think probably too cold for most gators to want to hang out much. They have closed down the springs we go to though, for gator sightings. 

 

We also do have bears that get into trash, etc. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...