BlsdMama Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Look, my life in the last three months has been fairly rough medically so I could do without donning the flame retardant suit.I need some helpful wisdom, not condemnation. At this point I honestly don't think I'll ever get another dog and I am a dyed in the wool shepherd lover. :( :( :( :( You have to return a dog to the breeder? nm. Edited April 9, 2016 by BlsdMama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Is this the dog that popped car tires? I hope the breeder is helpful. If not, is there a good GSD rescue in your area? And good thoughts to your other doggie. :grouphug: We lost a dog after a dog fight and it was horrible. Edited February 25, 2016 by zoobie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 :grouphug: No criticism here. No advice, either, but we had to surrender a dog because despite a year of intense work and $$$ spent on a professional trainer, our children and other pets were not safe. Giving her up was a really really difficult decision to make. She ended up with a single person who had no other pets or kids, and was thriving last I heard. I'm sorry you're facing this. :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I have no advice, just sympathy. I wouldn't want to be in your position. I hope everyone is gentle and you gain some insight. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 Is this the dog that popped car tires? I hope the breeder is helpful. If not, is there a good GSD rescue in your area? And good thoughts to your other doggie. :grouphug: We lost a dog after a dog fight and it was horrible. Nope, he's a lover, not a fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I am so sorry. I have no advice, but I am also an avowed GSD lover, but I could not ignore that. :( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Only adults handle the shepherd. Keep the dogs separated and the kids separated from the shepherd. See if the breeder will take him back ASAP. If not, contact a breed specific rescue if you can. Tell them exactly what you told us here. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemommy Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I love dogs. I have rescued all of our dogs from shelters or the street. I would not hesitate to rehome her. Big huge hugs. I know this is hard, no matter what you choose. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The breeder if reputable should take the dog back. That is why the system is there, for cases like this. I know it's upsetting though. :grouphug: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 What happens is that the breeder, ideally, will take the dog, keep her for a while to work with her and evaluate her. He will be keeping data on his breeding line, and your information may help him. Then he will try to place her with someone he knows will be right for her and has a better situation for her needs. You, meanwhile, are experiencing all kinds of bad feelings and stress. But what you are feeling can't compare to things you would experience if this dog hurt a child, killed a neighbor's dog, or any of a dozen other scenarios. So you are doing the right thing. Hugs to you and your children, the terrier, and also to this dog. I hope all parties will be better off with a change. There are plenty of people out there who will love a chance to work with your GSD girl. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 If the breeder is a good one he/she will take the dog back. Unfortunately, being nationally well known doesn't necessarily equal being good. Hopefully this one is both. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 ((hugs))No judgment here. Only empathy and love. Hoping you find a solution that is best for every living creature involved. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1GirlTwinBoys Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I'm sorry you're going through this and I can only imagine how difficult this is. We have a working breed full German male GS. They are intense and high drive. You need to do what's best for the safety of your family and other pets. Don't feel bad about this. The dog will be a great dog for a different type of owner. One without younger children or other pets possibly. Do what is best for your family and the dog. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I'm a dog lover and former trainer and you are doing the right thing. The dog needs a different home with a totally different setting. One where she is the only dog with an owner that can take on a "project dog". 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Yeah, we are not going to place her with a breed rescue either. They are great folks, really good at what they do, but she isn't an average shepherd. She's from Czech lines a and we knew she was going to be intense. After owning a few shepherds, and Legend is from working lines as well, we really thought we were ready for her. We weren't. The weird thing is we've had the other dogs for seven years. nm. Edited April 9, 2016 by BlsdMama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: As others have said, the breeder should take her back. Please keep us updated. I am so sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The dog reminds me of one I saw a while ago at a scout meeting. A Belgian Malinois, trained as a explosives sniffing dog. Super high strung, bouncing around on the lead, ready to go after someone or something. We were told to keep well away. The dog was obedient, but responded to one person only and was kept in a kennel. Great dog, but not remotely suitable for a family situation. It sounds as though you did everything right, but the breeder made a bad call thinking the dog would be good in a family. I remember the police dog trainer saying that, in a given litter, you never knew if you'd find a good police dog or not. It's just something inborn and individual apparently. I am not a dog expert, but that police dog and his trainer made a big impression on me. Your dog sounds like the bomb sniffer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I think you did everything right. Hopefully the breeder will take her back. You can't have a dog you can't trust with your family, and family includes terrier mix. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Before I even read the police dog suggestion, that was going to be my suggestion. Hopefully the breeder will take her back, but if not, I would look in to donating her to police or military. She needs a job. Edited February 25, 2016 by fraidycat 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 If the breeder would not take her back, I would euthanize her, preferably at your home by a trusted vet. While that is a difficult decision to make, I would feel less guilt about humanely putting a dog down than having it eventually seriously injure or kill another pet or, worse yet, a child. If the breeder did accept her and determined that she could not be placed as a pet or working dog, he probably would euthanize her. It is pretty unlikely you will find a police department to take her. Generally they purchase their dogs from organizations whose sole business is training K9 dogs. If the police did accept her and found her unsuitable, she would likely be euthanized. I am sorry. I know how stressful it is to deal with this situation. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I'm sorry...it sounds like she should either have some very aggressive training and/or be in an only-dog home situation. I currently have a foster GSD that is a wonderful family dog -- but is horrible with other dogs (she really is incredibly sweet tempered around kids and family, very easy to train -- in some ways, easier than mine. I taught the foster GSD basic obedience commands very quickly). Based upon her physical attributes, a bad breeder, based upon some behaviors, also removed from her mother/littermates too young. She just does NOT respond to normal "dog" cues. Keeping the two dogs (mine and the foster) is a carefully orchestrated effort which involves closing doors, moving one dog to the front, while removing other dog from the back, trading crate time, and generally just keeping the dogs out of each other's line of sight. We know my dog gets along with other dogs, as we've had many other dogs here -- but this one, not at all. I hope you can get the situation resolved happily for all involved, but agree that sometimes a dog is better off being put down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastianCat Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 We had to do the same thing with a lab puppy. The breeder took him back with no issues, and even used him on her farm for several years before placing him into a new home. (Just FYI, we received no refund from the breeder of what we initially paid.) You are absolutely doing the right thing by giving her back to the breeder. She needs to be in a different home. As traumatic as it was for our family, it was the right thing for us to do. My kids were very upset, but ultimately it was better for the dog and much better for our family. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) I'm sorry...it sounds like she should either have some very aggressive training and/or be in an only-dog home situation. I currently have a foster GSD that is a wonderful family dog -- but is horrible with other dogs (she really is incredibly sweet tempered around kids and family, very easy to train -- in some ways, easier than mine. I taught the foster GSD basic obedience commands very quickly). Based upon her physical attributes, a bad breeder, based upon some behaviors, also removed from her mother/littermates too young. She just does NOT respond to normal "dog" cues. Keeping the two dogs (mine and the foster) is a carefully orchestrated effort which involves closing doors, moving one dog to the front, while removing other dog from the back, trading crate time, and generally just keeping the dogs out of each other's line of sight. We know my dog gets along with other dogs, as we've had many other dogs here -- but this one, not at all. I hope you can get the situation resolved happily for all involved, but agree that sometimes a dog is better off being put down. Part of me really wonders if it is just Bris or Bris and Lace (the terrier) together. Lace is an instigator. I know that. She picks and picks and picks. But, she's all of 30 pounds, so Bris just needs to do what Legend does - swat her away like a fly. Lace is in surgery this morning. She is doing relatively well. The gash went to the muscle, but most created a big "pocket" in the flesh - big enough for me to slide my whole fist into. She tried to suffocate her more than bite her and almost succeeded. She drug her into her crate to do it. I think maybe that's the most disturbing part? I *truly* don't believe this is genetics. We were super careful when we chose the breeder. This family is just too aware, too careful, too good at what they do for this to be a genetic issue. I think it's a combination of a bad match - we weren't prepared for a dominant, "hard" dog. I actually believe this was just the wrong dog for the wrong family. We wanted a shepherd that was very trainable, a velcro girl, a companion and someone we could work with and train with in our leisure. I think Bris needs/needed more than we were capable or willing to give. :( We could give about a 6 on the training/exercise scale. I think she needs an 8. I think she could be a great dog in what I said above, but I think she would have been a nightmare in a relaxed family, so I think we've got a C. :( She loves people. But I just can't take the risk. You should see Lace's wound. It is terribly ugly. Can anyone promise me our current dog will NEVER die? Seriously. I am going to fall apart the day he dies - knowing I will never buy another German shepherd again and he is not replaceable. :( Edited April 9, 2016 by BlsdMama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 Stitched up. Unbelievable. She looks like someone tried to open her with a can opener. :( She's in pretty good spirits considering, but the vet doesn't want her on pain meds so that she leaves it alone. He said a lot of muscle damage along the top that he had to piece back together. The side is pretty much just flaps of skin and not muscle damage. He said she has a lot of healing in front of her and that she's pretty lucky she survived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Oh, the poor baby. She reminds me so much of my little Chi/terrier mix, who was plenty feisty, too. I'm sorry you thought anyone here would judge you for sending Bris back to the breeder. You really don't have a choice. :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF612 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Poor doggy! Hope her recovery goes well. I'm sorry ahout your issues with the other dog. I agree with the others who say to send her back to the breeder. It seems like a safety issue that is only going to get worse. I'm sorry :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Poor little thing! That's some serious stitching! I can't imagine how upset you must be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Yikes! I think you're making the right choice on revoking with a capable family. Poor terrier! I'd never trust that GSD again. Edited February 25, 2016 by Arctic Mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 <<Hugs>> So Sorry. Yes you are doing the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Dragging the dog back into he kennel is terrifying to me. She was trying to kill your terrier, not just snapping. sound more like a prey reaction. Have you heard back from the breeder yet? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Ouch, I have to admit that photo is much worse than I imagined. Poor baby. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Poor little baby :( Yes you're doing the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 If she were my dog I would adamantly insist on pain medication. "Don't give them pain medication so they'll take it easy/leave it alone" is extremely outdated thinking. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 If she were my dog I would adamantly insist on pain medication. "Don't give them pain medication so they'll take it easy/leave it alone" is extremely outdated thinking. Agreed, they heal faster when pain is controlled. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJosMom Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I agree with what others have said about (hopefully) returning her to the breeder. If they won't take her back, maybe they would have suggestions about a placement? I do not think that any reputable law enforcement agency would take her-they usually take stable, cross-trained dogs these days. There may be other working settings that would be a good fit, though. One other point: Please don't be too hard on yourself. Dogs are individuals and some can just be really challenging. My first big male was really, really intense and quite a strong individual. One of his litter mates was over the edge, though. No one could do anything with him. He became a junkyard dog. As in, he was turned loose at night in a junkyard for security. (Don't know that I'd want to pay the insurance on that property.) The breeder/trainer had been training dogs-well-for umpteen years, but he could do NOTHING with that dog. Hopefully your dog isn't that type; I just wanted to use that as an example that it's not always "operator error." :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Stitched up. Unbelievable. She looks like someone tried to open her with a can opener. :( She's in pretty good spirits considering, but the vet doesn't want her on pain meds so that she leaves it alone. He said a lot of muscle damage along the top that he had to piece back together. The side is pretty much just flaps of skin and not muscle damage. He said she has a lot of healing in front of her and that she's pretty lucky she survived. Oh your poor dog! I teared up, he looks a lot like our dog that we lost in October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1GirlTwinBoys Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Oh my goodness!!! That is so hard to look at and I feel so bad for your poor doggy. This makes me want to cry... :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Oh my. I am so sorry you are in this situation. So sorry for your poor little dog. Even with a reputable breeder, some dogs can be just "off." Please don't blame yourselves for not being "enough." The taking the little dog into the crate thing is very concerning. I hope that the breeder can take the dog back and makes a responsible decision on what to do with the dog. This must be so difficult. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 You are absolutely making the right decision. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Oh, your poor terrier! I hope she heals well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Agreeing with PP's that Lace really should have some pain medication. I'm very surprised that your vet didn't prescribe any. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 She's doing great this morning... Pottied, ate, drank, then jumped up on the couch with me. ??? Couldn't believe it when she did it. Remember that rule about no dogs on the couch? Yeah, that's history. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Oh, your poor baby. I'm so sorry your family is going through this. That photo is painful to see. :( I hope she heals quickly. You are making the right decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I hope the breeder takes your pup back. It should be in your contract whether or not you get a replacement pup or a discount on a replacement pup. We had to send our very loved puppy back to the rescue this summer. He was only with us a few weeks and was less than 4mos old but he had displayed some aggressive behaviors I wasn't comfortable with. I felt terrible- his issues weren't nearly as advanced as your dog's, but I was afraid he may turn into something like that. They took our puppy back no problem, found him a wonderful- no kid- home where he's received training and is thriving. We still get pictures and it still breaks my heart but I'm so happy that he's ok. When I see him ok I think, maybe he would have been fine with us, but I think it's more likely that he's fine because he's in a less chaotic environment. They gave us a new puppy and she is wonderful. I would be calling the breeder and telling them it is an emergency- they need to take her ASAP for everyone's safety. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted February 27, 2016 Author Share Posted February 27, 2016 I hope the breeder takes your pup back. It should be in your contract whether or not you get a replacement pup or a discount on a replacement pup. We had to send our very loved puppy back to the rescue this summer. He was only with us a few weeks and was less than 4mos old but he had displayed some aggressive behaviors I wasn't comfortable with. I felt terrible- his issues weren't nearly as advanced as your dog's, but I was afraid he may turn into something like that. They took our puppy back no problem, found him a wonderful- no kid- home where he's received training and is thriving. We still get pictures and it still breaks my heart but I'm so happy that he's ok. When I see him ok I think, maybe he would have been fine with us, but I think it's more likely that he's fine because he's in a less chaotic environment. They gave us a new puppy and she is wonderful. I would be calling the breeder and telling them it is an emergency- they need to take her ASAP for everyone's safety. You couldn't pay me enough to get a new puppy. The thought would make me cry. At this point I will just be happy when we have a plan in place for this one. Nope, I'm done. Stick a fork in me. Legend in 7 - I pray he lives forever, unlikely, but I'm hopeful. Lacey is 7 - she's a terrier, she could live close to forever. And when they are gone I think I'll get a robot dog. No poop, no teeth, no stress, no worry, no death, no vet bills. Yup, robot dog. Not fluffy but we'll just pet the chickens more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 After seeing the photo of the injured dog, I would not wait to hear back from breeder. I would have vet come to home Monday to euthanize the GSD. If the vet could not make a house call, then I would have it done in an office visit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I'm so, so sorry. I know how painful that must be for you. I do believe, as another OP said, that some dogs are just "off" right from the start, and that there is very little you can do about it. I hope the breeder will take her back. Getting rid of her will feel terrible at first. But eventually (and this may take time), you will know you did the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Ooof. That's incredibly difficult. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Has your breeder responded to you yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 So, an update. A happy update. Our breeder has been amazing. Absolutely amazing. After extensive talking to her - I think we honestly got too big for our britches. We've had a few German shepherds, we thought we were ready for Bris. Everything that happened was probably partially hormonal (she'd just come to full maturation through her second heat) and partial prey drive. If I had known to watch for the warning signs, I probably could have prevented it. I didn't. We've kept Bris since then, working with our breeder, to find the right person. Frankly I think this person was the answer to a very earnest prayer. She had had several applications for her, but didn't feel they were a good fit - an experience handler, experienced with high drive working lines along with an understanding of German shepherds, and no small dogs. This last week we were contacted by a dog trainer in Kansas. This woman has an almost teen daughter (something I specificially wanted for Bris because she is so attached to our 14yodd) and has another male GS - something else I really wanted for Bris. She has trained two GS' to title in Schutzhund and lives on five acres. Bris is going to train for Schutzhund I. She loves (LOVES) to work. This is ideal for her. I'm so grateful. We had to work really hard to keep the two of them separated and make sure they both got attention and exercise. It was not something we could have continued long-term. This worked out just unbelievably well for her as well as for our family. And? I just need Legend to live forever and when he dies I'm switching to corgis. 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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