Anyone NOT a "relaxed" homeschooler?

[enchantedhome]

I know that's an odd way to start, but I feel like I've seen a glut of posts lately about unschooling/relaxed schooling/rest and I'm beginning to wonder if anyone is left who would consider themselves a classical/TWTM homeschooler? I'm only at the beginning of my homeschooling career, and part of what convinced me to try homeschooling was the idea that I could give my children a higher level of education than is being offered at our local PS. For my husband, this all better be academically worth it, in other words. Lol. I totally read those relaxed posts, and absolutely learn from and appreciate the wisdom shared, but I'd also love to read more from those who homeschool in what you might call a more traditional way? Not sure how to phrase this....maybe you know what I mean?

[mmasc]

Well, I don't consider us 'rigorous', but I'm not very relaxed. :) I'm sure there are plenty of people on this board who educate as you've described, but if you'd really like to read more posts about classically educating your children you might want to pop over to the Memoria Press forum. There are many people there who are using full MP Cores.

[NoseInABook]

Teaching from rest is more about teaching from a place of calm and peace in you that comes from trusting in God rather than letting it all go without any sort of direction. :) I am attempting (haha) to teach from rest but we're still very much into a classical education with curriculum options that will push my kids past their comfort zones so they can work diligently without being unhappy and stressed because there's too much for them. Well, most days. Sometimes they're just going to not want to do school and it's like pulling teeth but that's normal now and then. ;) 

[EmilyGF]

The more I read about CM, the more I realize that true CM homeschooling is not relaxed. I am not a classical homeschooler in the TWTM way anymore, but I am not "relaxed" either.

 

I haven't read the State of Rest books (can't really stand Sarah McKenzie's blog, either). The way I see it is that I shouldn't homeschool from a state of fear, and that if a state of rest is the opposite of fear, then that's where I am coming from.

Emily

[RootAnn]

There are absolutely lots of us who would not consider ourselves unschoolers. However, 'teaching from rest' doesn't necessarily equal unschooling.

 

Also, those who have schooled for awhile, especially those who have homeschooled at least two kids, counsel gentle & fun younger years (under 7? under 8? perhaps even under 10?) instead of heavy academic loads during those K-2 years (or more).

 

I've always found enough 'rigorous' people/threads to fill me up (with ideas, hope, information).

[athomeontheprairie]

I am not relaxed. I do not unschool. I believe we are rigorous in our academics. And I am also thankful for those "relaxed" posts. It helps me remember not to push, when the relationship is more important.

 

there are certainly unschoolers and similar here. But there are also those that have some serious work loads. (And those terms are not mutually exclusive)

[Tranquility7]

I'm not sure how other people mean it, but for us, being "relaxed" and "restful" are not at all mutually exclusive of "classical/rigorous/TWTM"... After all, I consider us all of those things!

 

We are extremely rigorous. I have DS9, DD5, and DD1.  They are certainly bright, but not brilliant.  I won't go into details, but suffice it to say that DS9 and DD5 are well beyond their typical grade level in most areas, including reading, writing, grammar, Latin, math, piano, history, geography, and Chinese.

 

That being said, it is more important to DH and I that our home (and homeschool!) be joyful, loving, nurturing, and peaceful.  Our academic rigor must not exist simply for its own sake... it must flow out of our love for God and his creation and his providential working throughout history. We must study how and what we study out of a wholehearted love for and desire for Truth.  It takes conscience effort to keep our priorities straight in this regard and not slip into a "rigor for rigor's sake" perspective. I would guess I'm not the only one who struggles with this, and I wonder if that may be part of the goal of some of the threads you are talking about (though I don't know).

[enchantedhome]

Oh I totally agree that rest doesn't necessarily mean unschooling. For sure. But I just seem to be find a lot of "oh, we sort of work our way through this book and that, and if we don't get to it, it's ok because we're at rest that that's all we were meant to do today" sort of posts. And I'm not a hyper Type A person, but that sort of thinking seems....I don't know. This is my job, educating these kids, and they are going to eventually be out in the world, and I want to feel confident about what I did/offered them. I'm sure I'm bumbling this:) It doesn't have to be all workbooks and drill but something academically challenging and also preparatory is what I'm aiming for. Along with joy and fun, of course!

[Hobbes]

I tend to think of myself as a mix between classical and relaxed (which is how I think I was homeschooled), but then I find that everyone seems to have a different view of what that looks like.

 

I intend to finish the curriculum I plan for the year. I'm also not overly concerned about packing in a lot. And if we are having a horrendous day, we don't always finish the workbook. But... they do have to do their work, generally. So who knows.

 

I had high-minded visions of what rigorous students looked like and then I read Susan Wise Bauer's Day in the Life posts. Life was all over the place for her, just like it is in my house. I don't know how you can survive and educate in the midst of all that life without being relaxed on some level.

 

So I suppose what I'm saying is... what do people even mean when they say they are relaxed or rigorous? No one seems to have the same definition.

[Ms.Ivy]

I try to teach from "rest," but that doesn't mean it's not academically challenging.  It just means I'm not anxious and I'm not making my kids cry over their lessons.  It means I think very carefully about which subjects I teach and what projects we do.  I have a strict "no busy work" rule.  My kids both surpass and fall behind the "normal" school grade level standards.  I don't make them write essays before they can write proper sentences, for example.  And I don't care that my kids don't know what negative numbers are before 5th grade, because they can do complicated word problems instead.  

 

My "rigorous" looks way different than what others might expect it to.  I know moms who love book report projects, setting up a whole display and having the kid dress up in character and give a speech about a book they read.  I prefer to ask a few simple questions about what my kids read, have them work on narration and copy work, and call it good -- saving the time spent cutting and gluing and writing for learning Spanish or Greek.  Or instead of giving them a test in history, I read aloud to them from a picture book related to their history lesson.  Different strokes for different folks and all that.  

 

This forum is one of the only places where I can admit to others that my kids are studying more than two languages, for example, and people don't freak out on me and tell me I need to "let them be kids" and we'll all burnout.  I'm a big believer in teaching my kids to be self-disciplined and responsible, have good work habits, and keep a decent schedule.  But taking time for contemplation, appreciating nature, and unstructured playing, are pretty important for developing a whole person, so I don't let worksheets take away from that time.  I guess my point is that what some might consider "relaxed" might be different from what you are picturing is happening.  

[SilverMoon]

Relaxed homeschooling and schole (teaching from rest) seem like they're being used synonymously in this thread, but they're not the same thing.

 

I'm relaxed for kindergarten. My 5yo will only work on phonics, penmanship, and math for kindergarten. I highly doubt he'll do these every day even. If we skip one today I won't care. However I have no doubts his foundation will be well prepared for 1st grade level work when he's 6. If you go look in the most recent K plans thread you will see 5yo people with grammar, science, history, art, music, extracurriculars, and more. What I mean by relaxed is I'm not expecting much of him in comparison to a "normal" kindy load.

 

Schole is on a different playing field and is compatible with a very rigorous education. This is more about HOW you teach. If you don't care for the author of the Teaching From Rest book, Christopher Perrin of Classical Academic Press has a video lecture series about schole.

[Paige]

I don't find relaxed and rigorous to be mutually exclusive. I'm only starting my 6th year, it sounds like a long time to some but I still feel like a baby homeschooler. I've found that my perspective on what rigorous means has changed since my 1st year. I'm rigorous about my expectations and passionate about what they learn but so much more relaxed about how that needs to happen. I'm relaxed because I trust that learning will happen on a flexible schedule just as easily as on a strict schedule- sometimes more easily. I am relaxed because I know I can take off a week and catch up later without falling behind. We can play on Weds and work on Sun. I'm relaxed because I've learned that listening to what they want for their schedule is ok and doesn't mean they won't do anything. I've also learned to trust in maturity. It's ok to not push in the younger years very much because kids will often reach the same level of learning at the same time if you wait and teach it later as they would have if you had began when they were younger. But not always-  ;)

[73349]

I do feel that I teach from a state of rest when I'm at my best.

 

That is definitely not the same as letting things slide, and going, Oh, we'll do plenty of math next month. It means I do not have to freak at things' slipping away from me, because I have prepared and I have my stuff together. We had 249 school days last year, and my spreadsheet runneth over. I wouldn't call my style relaxed.

 

Now, some of those days ran from 10:30 to 12, because I have one kid and school doesn't take forever. But he is absolutely learning more than he would at school. If he could do better in a school, I'd send him; I'm a PS graduate and former schoolteacher myself.

[Clear Creek]

If you get to know some of the posters who post in the relaxed/unschool/rest threads that have older kids, you will notice that they have some of the most advanced kids on the board.

 

Nontraditional learners thrive and advance with nontraditional methods of learning.

 

I also agree that some people's definition of "relaxed" and "teaching from rest" may differ from yours. Relaxed for me means that I have the school year's plan in place. It is completely planned out and accessible to my kids so if something comes up (like I wake up sick, or there is an unexpected appointment) school will still be done, for the most part. All the books that the child needs will be on their bookshelf, and the books I need to get from the library every three weeks are on my list by week. Relaxed also means that I teach the way the child learns, because there is a lot less opposition that way. If the traditional way is reading a textbook and filling out a worksheet or writing out the answers to questions, and that way doesn't work with my child, that will lead to stress. A lot of stress. Ask me how I know! So if a laid-back approach like reading together, discussing what was read, and leaving the child to ponder the material and perhaps come up with some sort of personal output like a project (or not) works, then I will go with the more laid-back approach. And yes, I actually scheduled out 36 weeks of laid-back reading and discussion, along with online courses for my oldest and math time with mom for all three. It is rigorous - I plan on covering a lot of material - but we will not be stressed about it, and hopefully there will be no tears. 

[SnMomof7]

I instituted homework this year for the first time. LOL!!

 

That makes us officially unrelaxed.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Agreeing with others.  I aspire to be a relaxed homeschooler, but that in no way means we have low expectations or just do whatever . . . you can be relaxed (a function of your state of mind) and still be rigorous (a function of the materials you choose, your expectations, the output you require).  It's a false dichotomy.

 

Do a search for "relax vs rigor" and enjoy.  There have been some great discussions about this over the years.

[KrissiK]

I am not a relaxed/unschooler. My kids just aren't that way. We just "do school". I lean toward Classical, I guess. We study Latin and Greek rigorously. Well, Latin anyway. We just picked up Greek last year and don't hit it quite as hard as Latin. Latin is a core subject for us, and if you asked my kids, they'd probably say it was my most important subject. We don't do history the way it is in TWTM. We tried that, but my kids just aren't interested in "studying" history. My kids don't like to study. They like to play. So I'm settling for Historical Literacy in that department. It's nice to have a philosophy of education and to work at implementing it, but it also needs to fit the temperaments and personalities of your kids. I mean, a Charlotte Mason nature walk is all well and good, if the kids actually look at nature and will cooperate. But my kids would rather throw rocks in the river and have sword fights with sticks. So, there you go.

[The Governess]

I am not a relaxed homeschooler....but I am not a relaxed person in general.  Sometimes I wish I could be more relaxed about things.  I would definitely call myself a rigorous homeschooler in that I require a lot from my students, but what I require is based on their abilities rather than some predetermined scope and sequence.  What I call rigorous for one of my students will look very different than what I call rigorous for the other.  Also, I tend to treat academic and non-academic endeavors with the same weight: my girls are heavily involved in self-chosen extracurricular activities that are not academic but that are shaping them as people: teaching them a work ethic and discipline, how to be part of a team, how to overcome obstacles, how to succeed and/or fail gracefully.  What matters to me most is that we are building a culture in our home where learning is a passion, where we work to the best of our abilities at whatever we take on, and where we participate in the world around us actively and with wonder, love, and curiosity. 

[8filltheheart]

I only have a sec, but here is my personal philosophy. I am deliberately relaxed with my younger children. I intentionally do not teach pre-school academics. Self-entertainment is a primary objective. I believe that higher levels of critical thinking development occur through playing and imagining. My primary age children have very little seat work and long days of playing. Primary grades focus strictly on reading, handwriting, copywork for basic writing instruction, and math. All other things that happens in their daily lives are simply what they are exposed to from living in our family. ;)

 

My kids' educations are not centered around workbooks or textbooks. (Foreign lang and math are the only textbooks my kids ever touch prior to high school level science.) My list of what we do on a daily basis is short (we do not have long lists of subjects). Their daily work avgs about an hour per grade level for K-6. Middle school is about 6-8 hours. High school ranges between 7-9 hrs.

 

I completely agree with the philosophy of not teaching from fear. Rest? Yes, if the understanding is similar to the quote from In This House of Brede and pax (peace):

The motto was ‘Pax,’ but the word was set in a circle of thorns. Pax: peace, but what a strange peace, made of unremitting toil and effort, seldom with a seen result; subject to constant interruptions, unexpected demands, short sleep at nights, little comfort, sometimes scant food; beset with disappointments and usually misunderstood; yet peace all the same, undeviating, filled with joy and gratitude and love. “It is My own peace I give unto you.†Not, notice, the world’s peace.

 

It isn't rest as in not hard work. It is rest as in that knowing that what I am doing is the best for my children and that I DO KNOW what I am doing.

 

FWIW, I have zero qualms about being relaxed with my younger kids and increasing their workloads gradually as they get older. My current college student graduated from high school with 300 level math and physics credits. It didn't take long days for him to reach the levels of accomplishment that he did. He still only did 2 hrs in 2nd grade, but was taking alg by 5th. :)

[Ms.Ivy]

 but I'm not relaxed ABOUT homeschool. It's my job. I take it very seriously.

 

I think this is a good point.  I knew many families during the 90s that homeschooled out of fear and they were way too "relaxed."  Their kids got a mediocre education.  But the parents were not really serious about their job as a homeschool parent.  It was more about what they were NOT doing (public school) than what they WERE doing.  Those types of parents would never have been on a forum like this, posting about being "relaxed".  Probably anyone posting on this forum is relatively serious about their job as a homeschool parent and has put a lot of thought into why they are (or aren't) relaxed, and how they define it.  

[madteaparty]

I'm not a relaxed anything. But I've friends that are far far more intense than I am (and their children show the work that has been put into them). So most days I feel like a slacker.

[HomeAgain]

I've seen relaxed.  I'm not it. :)

 

Our methods are not the 'norm' (very activity driven in short bursts, low on the actual writing until about middle elementary, not wasting time with learning ABC's or other preschool nonsense) and it can look like we're not doing a whole lot, but the output is quite worth it.

[Butter]

Definitely not relaxed here.  Definitely rigorous.

[Dmmetler]

Not relaxed at all here, but flexible to allow for child interests, so we do a lot of academics in the car on the way to do field science projects, a lot of writing is science-focused rather than being literature focused, and so on.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bluegoat]

I don't actually think I really have seen many unschooly posts here.

 

I guess I am relaxed - I am very slow to introduce academics in the early years, P and gr1 are very basic, and grade two is as well really.  Grade 4 is, in my mind, where school really begins.

 

I don't ever call myself rigorous, and a lot of the ideas it seems to include for people most of the time are ones I don't feel positively about - I often find its rather insensitive to the needs of the child, it tends to see a certain set of information as my important than what i would consider really developing a relationship to ideas, and IMO often it seems to result in a poor use of time, putting too much weight on checking boxes and not enough on real literacy or numeracy.

 

I don't think though that I have a mushy idea of what it means to be educated, I think my expectations in that are fairly pretty high, and I teach my kids so as to put them in a position to accomplish that, and to want to accomplish that.

[deerforest]

I have 1 child who has 2e diagnosis, which means she's a fast, but asynchronous learner. I also work full time, which means we have a restricted window in which to do school. I also consider her extracurricular interests and free time to be nearly as important as academic work.

 

Without a doubt we are relaxed yet rigorous (but not classical) homeschoolers based on her learning needs and our family's lifestyle. 

 

(And we didn't do a whole lot until 3rd grade. Her K year was spent learning about mammalian births. No real math until Beast Academy 3A, etc.)

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

My main goal in homeschooling is to offer superior academics to my kids.  

 

But I am able to do that in about 3-4 hours a day for my third grader and 2 hours a day for my first grader.  The rest of the day is pretty "relaxed".  So it's hard to say what category that puts me in.   :lol:

[Raising Little Shoots]

Teaching from rest is more about teaching from a place of calm and peace in you that comes from trusting in God rather than letting it all go without any sort of direction. :) I am attempting (haha) to teach from rest but we're still very much into a classical education with curriculum options that will push my kids past their comfort zones so they can work diligently without being unhappy and stressed because there's too much for them. Well, most days. Sometimes they're just going to not want to do school and it's like pulling teeth but that's normal now and then. ;)

 

^^^ This :)

 

Teaching from rest, and relaxed homeschooling are quite different ideas to my mind.

 

[dragonflyer]

Oh I totally agree that rest doesn't necessarily mean unschooling. For sure. But I just seem to be find a lot of "oh, we sort of work our way through this book and that, and if we don't get to it, it's ok because we're at rest that that's all we were meant to do today" sort of posts. And I'm not a hyper Type A person, but that sort of thinking seems....I don't know. This is my job, educating these kids, and they are going to eventually be out in the world, and I want to feel confident about what I did/offered them. I'm sure I'm bumbling this:) It doesn't have to be all workbooks and drill but something academically challenging and also preparatory is what I'm aiming for. Along with joy and fun, of course!

 

I think there are two types of this post.  One says: "it does not really matter."  That type I strongly disagree with.

 

Where I often need to be reminded are about: we spent an hour on the lesson, my child is in tears, and I want to scream in frustration.  In the long run, I need to preserve my relationship with my child and allow it to take 3 days to complete this lesson, or even just eat lunch and come back to this later today.  The point is not to complete the lesson according to the schedule, but to understand the lesson and become a better person, and hopefully something will be easy later so I can speed that up and complete the work needed for the year.

 

There can be no joy and fun if my priority and worry is that when my kid takes longer than 30 minutes to master multiplication, and I am sure that our math will be doomed for the next five years.  I think that if you looked closely at what is being accomplished by some people over the year, you would not define them as unschooling or relaxed.  I also think there are many who call themselves relaxed, who are veering toward negligent.

I think most of the "teaching from rest" attitude is about doing our best to teach every day to the standards we have set for ourselves, and being confident that the little bit every day will be more than enough at the end of the year, and a stellar/superior/excellent education at the end of twelve years.

[Reefgazer]

I'm not relaxed, either; in fact, I'm kind of uptight, LOL!  But I strive for a solid, classical education for my kids, with time for them to pursue their interests.  But, relaxed?  no, that's not quite the word for it, although I wish I could be.

I am not a relaxed/unschooler. My kids just aren't that way. We just "do school". I lean toward Classical, I guess. We study Latin and Greek rigorously. Well, Latin anyway. We just picked up Greek last year and don't hit it quite as hard as Latin. Latin is a core subject for us, and if you asked my kids, they'd probably say it was my most important subject. We don't do history the way it is in TWTM. We tried that, but my kids just aren't interested in "studying" history. My kids don't like to study. They like to play. So I'm settling for Historical Literacy in that department. It's nice to have a philosophy of education and to work at implementing it, but it also needs to fit the temperaments and personalities of your kids. I mean, a Charlotte Mason nature walk is all well and good, if the kids actually look at nature and will cooperate. But my kids would rather throw rocks in the river and have sword fights with sticks. So, there you go.

 

[Runningmom80]

I think the majority of the posters on this board would self identify with classical based rigorous learning.  It looks different for everyone because we are teaching individuals.  There are a lot of posts about relaxing, and that is because it's easy to get caught up in the rigor.  I think a lot of the time, when someone posts about relaxing, they just need validation that it's ok to slow down, or change course, or just not be so rigorous.  At least that is why I make those posts. ;)  There are very few traditional unschoolers on the board, the definition of unschoolers I'm referring to, is what I think you are referring to, people who use zero curriculum the whole 12 years, or are very strictly child-led.) most people are just trying to chill out a bit. :)

[Penguin]

When thinking about homeschooling, I am not very relaxed at all. I tend to be kind of serious.

 

But when we are actually doing it, I am very relaxed. Most days are quite peaceful here. But yikes, I have had some sleepness nights.

[enchantedhome]

I guess what I'm noticing IRL and somewhat in posts, is some fuzzy line where homeschool is about light-ish academics and the big focus is on mom being confident that whatever gets done is good enough. I'm not necessarily trying to get my kids into Ivy schools, but I am aiming for them to do well on tests and get into good colleges of their choice. It seems like that kind of purpose is not especially in vogue right now:)

[Corraleno]

I think the terms "rigorous" and "relaxed" refer to two different qualities and are not opposites at all — to me, "rigorous" refers to the depth and quality of the materials used, and "relaxed" refers to how those materials are implemented. You can imagine the two qualities on a coordinate plane, with the y axis representing the quality of materials and the x axis representing the "relaxedness" of  implementation, ranging from a strict schedule for a multitude of subjects using prepared curriculum on the left to unschooling on the right.

You can have homeschoolers at (-10, -10) who are strictly implementing a curriculum that includes lots of seat time filling in low-level worksheets and busy work, and you can have homeschoolers at (10, 10) who are using advanced materials that lead to deep understanding, but doing so in an unscheduled, interest-led way. IMO, a middle schooler who is reading the Iliad for fun, taking Lukeion Greek & Latin classes, watching Teaching Company lectures, and having deep Socratic discussions is getting a rigorous, classical education, even though it may be totally interest-led and largely unscheduled. For elementary & middle school students, is an unscheduled, interest-led science education that includes free-choice reading and research, many hours of nature study/observation, hands-on experiments (real experiments, not "demonstrations"), and frequent visits to science & natural history museums, nature centers, and planetariums really less "rigorous" than reading assigned pages xx-xx and filling in the corresponding worksheet 3 days/wk for 36 wks? 

 

Obviously there are also homeschoolers who are overly "relaxed" about both materials and implementation — people who hand their kids a few workbooks, or assume they'll learn everything they need to know from playing video games. And at the other extreme there are (possibly imaginary ;) ) homeschoolers who are spending many many hours doing lots of subjects, pursued to great depth, in an intense and strictly scheduled way, even in elementary and middle school. I think a lot of people, especially those new to classical education, aim for the latter, and then stress over the fact that it's taking too many hours and everyone is unhappy and burnt out — those are the people that fellow boardies are telling to "relax."

 

That level of intensity may work for some kids, but I think that number is pretty small. That level of intensity may work for some kids in some subjects but not in others, and at some ages but not others. IMO, if you have to choose between backing off the depth and quality of materials or backing off the number of subjects/volume of output/intensity of the schedule, go with the best materials possible, wherever that puts you on the scheduled-vs-relaxed scale. Multum non multa. The point is to know your students, and to find the "sweet spot" on the grid that works for your family. 

 

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

Ok, I have a little more time and wanted to add a few more thoughts I have had while thinking about this thread.

 

The siggie of the OP includes a quote from one of my all-time favorite authors, Lewis. I think Lewis would have his own thoughts about what rigor is and whether or not traditional educational methods are in fact rigorous academics or more inclined in producing trousered apes. I will not presume to actually know how he would view "traditional way" of rigorous education, but I do know that as a lover of Lewis and as someone who has been influenced by his writings that I have been impacted by his works to argue less in favor of defining appropriate educational goals for 6 and 8 yr olds in terms of rigor and more in favor of encouraging critical thinking and exposure to truth and the beauty found around us, whether in nature, literature, or faith.

 

Since Lewis was a lover of words and what they actually mean, consider the definition of rigorous:

adjective

1.

characterized by rigor; rigidly severe or harsh, as people, rules, or discipline:

rigorous laws.

2.

severely exact or accurate; precise:

rigorous research.

or its synonyms:

strict, severe, stern, stringent, tough, harsh, rigid, relentless, unsparing,inflexible, draconian, intransigent, uncompromising, exacting

Those are not the words that I embrace for inspiring my younger children to attain their highest levels of achievement. We focus on doing less in order to achieve more in the long run. When I read rigor applied to educational goals for 6 and 8 yr olds, I picture school in a box with lots of workbooks and textbooks and a laundry list of daily requirements. When I think of nurturing the minds of my young children, I anticipate exposure to wonderful stories which spark their imaginations, understanding the world around them, and encouraging them to command the language they use. I want their educations to embrace their human-ness, which at 6 and 8 is that of a young child. I want them awe-inspired by what is out there to learn, not dreading all that they are expected to do.

 

The Lewis quote included in the siggie is missing the preceding sentence: In those days a boy on the classical side officially did almost nothing but classics.

I think that part of the quote brings some context to this conversation. At what age is an authentic classical education possible? (K? 1st? 4th? when?) What are the goals of classical education?

 

For me the answer to what are the goals of a classical education are not easily defined by modern edu-speak. Why did a boy in those days study almost nothing but the classics? The answer to that question starts to peek into the heart of educating a man vs. the trousered ape. How do we pursue that objective?

 

I am the anti-thesis of believing that homeschooling is prancing through fields of daisies and that all is sunshine and roses. But, I am equally opposed to modern educational philosophies that view education as a conglomerate of facts to be mastered. I am thankful that over the years I have found an educational philosophy that I have been able to implement in my home that meets the educational goals we have for our children. Our educational goals are not strictly academic. They are more of an Ignatian philosophy : educating the whole heart, mind, and body. Finding that balance is where being able to relax and teach from rest came for me. We do pursue academic excellence, but rigor is not the defining objective. Educating for life is.

 

After typing all of that out, I am left wondering if others view academic excellence and rigor as being defined differently. I would define your typical ps AP classes as rigorous, but not necessarily excellent. I would define AoPS as excellent. Those 2 examples probably sum up my thoughts far more simply than everything else I wrote! :p

[8filltheheart]

I think the terms "rigorous" and "relaxed" refer to two different qualities and are not opposites at all — to me, "rigorous" refers to the depth and quality of the materials used, and "relaxed" refers to how those materials are implemented. You can imagine the two qualities on a coordinate plane, with the y axis representing the quality of materials and the x axis representing the "relaxedness" of  implementation, ranging from a strict schedule for a multitude of subjects using prepared curriculum on the left to unschooling on the right.

 

You can have homeschoolers at (-10, -10) who are strictly implementing a curriculum that includes lots of seat time filling in low-level worksheets and busy work, and you can have homeschoolers at (10, 10) who are using advanced materials that lead to deep understanding, but doing so in an unscheduled, interest-led way. IMO, a middle schooler who is reading the Iliad for fun, taking Lukeion Greek & Latin classes, watching Teaching Company lectures, and having deep Socratic discussions is getting a rigorous, classical education, even though it may be totally interest-led and largely unscheduled. For elementary & middle school students, is an unscheduled, interest-led science education that includes free-choice reading and research, many hours of nature study/observation, hands-on experiments (real experiments, not "demonstrations"), and frequent visits to science & natural history museums, nature centers, and planetariums really less "rigorous" than reading assigned pages xx-xx and filling in the corresponding worksheet 3 days/wk for 36 wks? 

 

Obviously there are also homeschoolers who are overly "relaxed" about both materials and implementation — people who hand their kids a few workbooks, or assume they'll learn everything they need to know from playing video games. And at the other extreme there are (possibly imaginary ;) ) homeschoolers who are spending many many hours doing lots of subjects, pursued to great depth, in an intense and strictly scheduled way, even in elementary and middle school. I think a lot of people, especially those new to classical education, aim for the latter, and then stress over the fact that it's taking too many hours and everyone is unhappy and burnt out — those are the people that fellow boardies are telling to "relax."

 

That level of intensity may work for some kids, but I think that number is pretty small. That level of intensity may work for some kids in some subjects but not in others, and at some ages but not others. IMO, if you have to choose between backing off the depth and quality of materials or backing off the number of subjects/volume of output/intensity of the schedule, go with the best materials possible, wherever that puts you on the scheduled-vs-relaxed scale. Multum non multa. The point is to know your students, and to find the "sweet spot" on the grid that works for your family. 

 

Love your post, Jackie.  :)  I should just go delete mine and leave yours quoted b/c it shares what I was thinking far more clearly!

[8filltheheart]

I guess what I'm noticing IRL and somewhat in posts, is some fuzzy line where homeschool is about light-ish academics and the big focus is on mom being confident that whatever gets done is good enough.

 

You will find that sentiment amg certain groups.  You will also encounter those who believe anything done at home is better than ps.  But I agree with Dialectica that that is not the norm on this forum.  I am not a WTMer, but this forum has the most inspirational group of homeschoolers I have ever encountered.  The achievements of the families who hang out here are amazing.  Spend time reading the college board.  There are plenty of high achieving homeschool grad stories.  

 

 

 

 I'm not necessarily trying to get my kids into Ivy schools, but I am aiming for them to do well on tests and get into good colleges of their choice. It seems like that kind of purpose is not especially in vogue right now:)

 

The path to a solid education and high levels of achievement is not singular in nature.  Lots of paths will enable kids to do well on tests and get into good colleges of their choice.  (Paying for that college, not so much.  ;) )

 

 Educating our children well is always in vogue. :)  Agreeing on the methodology necessary?  Probably not so much.  

[texasmama]

I don't know how to define those words in a way that is universally understood.

 

I am not relaxed. I don't think anyone would call me rigorous. I am college-prep, organized, planned, typical sequence-driven, not gonna skip stuff, not gonna do Latin in high school (unless a kid asks for it), have one kid ahead of the game, one kid keeping up with the game, and one TBD. You won't find me doing four years of formal logic nor will you find me skipping out on schoolish activities for three weeks even in the face of special circumstances. Nothing I do could be considered unschooling. I hate Abeka. I hate Saxon math. I love Writing Tales and classic literature. I tweak a lot. A LOT. I fail at some stuff. I succeed at some stuff. By golly, if it kills me, my kids will learn how to swim and will understand algebra and will write a decent essay. If it kills me, they will be able to make it in college if they choose, as much as it is up to me, so help me God.

 

I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm not exactly classical, but I am classically-influenced. I have staked my claim here in no man's land.

 

I purchased the "Teaching from a State of Rest" audio thingie, and then I never listened to it so please put that in the fail column for me, but I also listened to SWB's "When Homeschooling is Difficult" or somesuch in the summer online conference and cried and cried through part three because if SWB has kids who don't fit the mold and she can't figure out a way to make that happen, I will feel better about my little corner of the world.

 

With the exception of utterly failing to teach my boys typing, I am actually pretty pleased with their knowledge and skills. They are all receiving a college-prep education which is appropriate to their individual skills and abilities. Now I just have to keep it up for about eight more years, and I can retire.

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

We are definitely more traditional classical homeschoolers. For me, I take the rest posts as an inner peace so I am more patient with my kids and helping them find the joy in learning. My nature can be the opposite where I get frustrated and just want them to finish the page. I tend to over plan too, and I am trying to be more realistic. One of the reasons I chose homeschooling was the flexibility. But, yes, we are very much into rigorous academics here.

[Runningmom80]

Love your post, Jackie. :) I should just go delete mine and leave yours quoted b/c it shares what I was thinking far more clearly!

Your post was great too!

[PeterPan]

Hmm, I'm definitely not in the unschooler/whatever camp, but I've also never identified with the "rigor as a goal" segment of the WTM boards either.  Oh well.  We work.  The boards go through cycles and where people spend their time changes.  I used to hang on K-8 pretty faithfully, but I spend most of my time on LC now.  My ds has so many learning disabilities and things it makes my head spin.  WTM doesn't really speak to that, and I wouldn't be interested in shoving my ds into some "classical" or neo-classical box just to say I did anyway.  He's going to be unique and really different, and that's FINE by me.  But the things that resonated with me from WTM, like a focus on foundations, the value of exposures and rich experiences, these things remain.  I've had friends who were unschoolers (irl) that I identified with greatly, because we were of very similar values on some things, even if maybe the way we chose things or ordered our days differed.

 

Since you're new(er) to the boards, I'll just pass on my little tip for finding things when I'm not turning up what I need.  You can do a google site search.  So use your terms and then add site:welltrainedmind.com  and put that all into your google browser and hit bam.  You can even use it to search by username, so for instance if you want to know everything Janice in NJ ever said about algebra, hehe...  you'd type, janice in nj algebra site:welltrainedmind.com  

[FO4UR]

I know that's an odd way to start, but I feel like I've seen a glut of posts lately about unschooling/relaxed schooling/rest and I'm beginning to wonder if anyone is left who would consider themselves a classical/rigorous/TWTM homeschooler? I'm only at the beginning of my homeschooling career, and part of what convinced me to try homeschooling was the idea that I could give my children a higher level of education than is being offered at our local PS. For my husband, this all better be academically worth it, in other words. Lol. I totally read those relaxed posts, and absolutely learn from and appreciate the wisdom shared, but I'd also love to read more from those who homeschool in what you might call a more traditional way? Not sure how to phrase this....maybe you know what I mean?

 

 

Rigor is not a happy word.  I prefer vigor.  We have a vigorous education.

 

I am a CM homeschooler.  If you look at the bare bones of my children's schedules, you might think I'm too relaxed.  If you look at what they are actually reading and actually writing, you'd know better.  

 

 

It is better to teach the best things very well rather than try to cover the most things with only a passing glance.  I'm never going to be satisfied that we are doing enough.  I won't.  I have to cut until it hurts, try it on, and cut a little more.  I HAVE to I've learned or the most important things slide.  I can't let that happen.  1st things 1st, and the 2nd things will come...and the 3rd things take no effort from me beyond all that.

 

 

Teaching from rest is not being lazy or lax, it's teaching from a place of inner-peace about how you have prioritized. 

[enchantedhome]

Just popping back in to say thank you to everyone who shared their thoughts here...I am new(ish) to the boards, and yes, my kids are only 8 and 6, but I've been reading and studying education for a long time. I was an English professor before I had my kids, and I'm passionate about literature, history, and educational theory. Makes my brain happy:) I love thinking about these things, so thanks for thinking along!

[lewelma]

cmmama, so much of what I do is quite subtle.  I get excellent outcomes, but to an untrained eye, my methods can look relaxed. Since you are an english prof, let's talk language arts, even though I am a scientist by trade.  In my 14 year old's entire school career of 9 years, he did 1.5 years of writing curriculum (WWS),  no literature curriculum, 1 year of a vocab program (Caesar's English), no poetry curriculum, and he quit grammar at 11.  In fact, he spent 2 years not really writing at all from the age of 12-13, except page long math proofs. From the point of view of language arts viewed in a traditional sense, I'm a slacker. But my 14 year old just read Brothers Karamazov and wrote a response essay on freewill from the point of view of neural nets and quantum physics. It is just not a slacker outcome.

 

Sometimes 'relaxed' can mean no curriculum or 'relaxed' can mean child led.  But I think you need to ask a bunch of questions of the poster before you assume that 'relaxed' means not 'rigorous.'  From the beginning with my children I have worked hard to celebrate language.  We play with words and have an on going game to trip up a librarian/linguist neighbor who is fluent in French and Latin.  My kids finally started finding words with celtic roots!  We watch Shakespeare movies.  We read sparksnotes and discuss books. I model good reading habits. We read published essays and analyse how and why authors chose to write what they wrote and how it supports their thesis.  I hint, suggest, encourage, and at times praise. I get them to own their own goals, and strive for them. These things are so much more effective for *my* son than any curriculum could be, but they are impossible to put in my siggy. I firmly believe it is the WTM way, at least the old way before all the curriculum was written.  

 

So my suggestion to you is to ask.  Ask what the posters' goals are and how they evaluate if they have met them.  Ask if there were other things they tried, and how they made the decision to do something different. Ask for a description of their successes and failures so you can learn from them.  

 

The longer I have been on these boards, the more awe inspired I have been.  The people here work hard, very hard.  

 

Ruth in NZ

[Soror]

cmmama- Thanks for starting the thread we were due a good one on rigor :)

 

More experienced and wise hs moms have already spoke my own thoughts much more eloquently than I could. 

 

As with so many things relaxed and rigor are very relative and subjective, I quite often feel like a slacker here, especially in regards to our content work but then again in my own community I sometimes feel like I must be a slave driver. We also have scads of Abeka by the box schoolers here and I'm sure pretty much nothing I do would meet their standards of rigor, especially in those early years but then again their standards aren't my own.

 

I started out better late than early and still lean that way, really it was what my son needed, now my 2 daughters are a bit different and I've adapted for them but we still don't push it hard and long in the early days. My son wasn't/isn't a kid that fit in any box so rigor couldn't/didn't look like many people's definition but that is ok I had to meet him where he was. Now that the girls are coming up I've realized that after working with my son my own definition of rigor has changed and what I value has changed. The ability to think critically and strategically, understand and comprehend increasingly complex ideas, and literature and to be able to convey what they have learned clearly through not only written word but also the spoken word (which is oft neglected), those are the important things. The speedy regurgitation of facts has its place but is quite hollow without something of more depth and quite often scads of what is considered rigor is little more than regurgitating the ideas of others. 

[Runningmom80]

cmmama- Thanks for starting the thread we were due a good one on rigor :)

 

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[The Girls' Mom]

We aren't nearly as rigorous as many on this board, but we definitely aren't unschoolers/extremely relaxed.  

 

We set a schedule, and we finish texts about 90% of the time.  The ones we don't are the ones that have flexibility built in.  I expect hard work from my students, and good grades.  I definitely am concerned about providing a better academic education than they can get at our public school.  

[Soror]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

It's a good start to the year I think :)

[8filltheheart]

cmmama- Thanks for starting the thread we were due a good one on rigor :) .

 

  

:laugh: :laugh:

 

Lol!! I almost asked what defines a classical education and then I thought, nah, we really don't want to go there. :laugh:

[AppleGreen]

I wasn't "relaxed" when I first started, but I am far enough into this gig to realize that we are able to attain a high level of achievement by offering challenging, authentic assignments with a healthy mix of free time. My child that was pushed more is not off far better off than my other children who have had consistent, challenging age appropriate assignments. My 9th grader still loves to dig in the dirt, and spent the evening tunneling through a pile of mulch. There was hard work done this first day of school, but because I also value the problem solving and other untestable skills authentic play offers, even for my 9th grader, I make space for that . 

 

I try really hard not to compare my children to "what they would get in public school" because what they get is different. In our home, they each get a unique education, tailored to them. That is very, very different than what they would receive in a school setting. 

 

I truly see the wisdom that slow and steady wins this race. So, maybe I am more "relaxed", but doing more doesn't necessarily equal more rigorous, IMO.