justasque Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 The news article indicated that the family is sitting on a 27 acre lot. If they sold 26 acres, they'd probably have a little more money. I've learned two things from reading homesteading books: 1) It's not for me. 2) Don't buy land with no water source. #2 is always, always given significant emphasis, and it is always, always in the very first chapter of the book. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Thanks for this info. I am encouraged that they plan to spend a lot of money improving their property. It seems like this will give them the highest chance of getting their children back. But do you really think they will really use it for these things? One of the comments on the GFM page is that they should not list legal fees as an intended use for the money because GFM will then shut down the page. But if they say they need money for these things and then use the money for legal fees instead, is that fraudulent? I don't know. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Most people living very simply in rural areas still need things they can't grow or make. Trading only gets you so far. They still have to make money unless they started with a lot in the bank or they have some fixed guaranteed income. I know a family who come to town (requiring a private boat ride, a car they keep parked on shore and then a state ferry boat ride) for orthodontia. They can't pay the dentist in vegetables. Even if they have very low expenses, the county is not going to take their property tax bill in bags of wool. ETA- your concept of off grid is not factoring in that rural families have been "coming to market" thousands of years. No, on the contrary, I totally get that rural families have been coming in and maintaining a link with the grid for thousands of years. But the term "off the grid", to me, meant something different. It is not the same as rural living, farming, or homesteading. Hell, I've lived rural, lived in a house in the middle of nowhere. We've lived on a farm. We have not homesteaded because screw that, but I'm all for it if you want to spend the entire day making bland cheese. Go for it. :) However, "off the grid" to me means trying to do it on your own. The very few people I know who use the term "off the grid" literally consider themselves off the grid, like, off the web of human society. They are homesteaders. Alone. They want to do it alone. There's always some level of hypocrisy in any lifestyle, but some try harder than others to maintain independence. Those individuals seem to believe that they have to hide to some extent to be away from the government. They are radical unschoolers, devout Christians, unassisted homebirthers, etc. etc. "We don't need any help." It's a little nuts, actually, and these people are from my hometown. I don't know this via the Internet but via mutual friends. (Word of mouth, the age-old Internet. :) ) I think my idea of "off the grid" is mainly informed by the families I know and obviously we have not been using this term in the same way that people like the Nauglers use it. If they just mean, building your own home and doing your own chickens, I would not call that off the grid. They're just moderately homesteading. With the Internet. And a dog grooming business. And their neighbors' property rights. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 #2 is always, always given significant emphasis, and it is always, always in the very first chapter of the book. Why would you even need a book to tell you that? That you need water? :svengo: :willy_nilly: :banghead: 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Why would you even need a book to tell you that? That you need water? :svengo: :willy_nilly: :banghead: I am not a homesteader; however, I gather that people will buy land with the intention of having a well put in. Water may not turn out to be present. Or, the water table might be too far down. This is why I did not laugh at PP's comment. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Off-grid doesn't mean "batshit and living in the woods". It just means off the electrical grid and not on public utilities. I daresay people living in the more remote parts of the San Juan Islands where there are no public utilities to hook up to even if they want to are living "off the grid". Grid means something and it's not synonymous with market or community. 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 The GoFundMe page says Pace Ellsworth, who started that campaign on the family's behalf, is the principal business owner of Capistan and the family's media liaison. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 The GoFundMe page says Pace Ellsworth, who started that campaign on the family's behalf, is the principal business owner of Capistan and the family's media liaison. http://www.saveourfamily.info/capistan-press-release/ :001_huh: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 But do you really think they will really use it for these things? One of the comments on the GFM page is that they should not list legal fees as an intended use for the money because GFM will then shut down the page. But if they say they need money for these things and then use the money for legal fees instead, is that fraudulent? I don't know. There was a post saying it was for legal fee's, that was removed. There are also posts saying not to say it is for legal fees or GFM will close them down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 http://www.saveourfamily.info/capistan-press-release/ :001_huh: I wonder how much his cut will be... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 http://www.saveourfamily.info/capistan-press-release/ :001_huh: That's a lot of quotation marks... " :confused1: " 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 The news article indicated that the family is sitting on a 27 acre lot. If they sold 26 acres, they'd probably have a little more money. The sign on the kitchen gate says the land is leased. Leasing is a cheap way to get a whole bunch of undeveloped land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 How they're going to use the money is one of the things I find intriguing in this case. If most people were living like this and given a list of things to fix to get their kids back, they would throw in the towel because the reason they were living in those conditions was due to lack of funds. What's interesting in this case is that they now have the money to correct the problems but they can choose a different path and use it for legal fees instead. Is the HSLDA going to pay for their defense? Or just advise their own attorney? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 The sign on the kitchen gate says the land is leased. Leasing is a cheap way to get a whole bunch of undeveloped land. But the Capistan thingy says they need to pay off the acreage to save "hundreds" of dollars of interest? Something stinks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 How they're going to use the money is one of the things I find intriguing in this case. If most people were living like this and given a list of things to fix to get their kids back, they would throw in the towel because the reason they were living in those conditions was due to lack of funds. What's interesting in this case is that they now have the money to correct the problems but they can choose a different path and use it for legal fees instead. Is the HSLDA going to pay for their defense? Or just advise their own attorney? I thought HSLDA wasn't down with unschooling? Or do they look the other way on that front because of the religious, large family and parental rights aspects of this case? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk8ermaiden Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/a-former-off-grid-homeschooled-childs-thoughts-on-the-naugler-family/ This is a good article. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeenagerMom Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 They left the courthouse crying & refusing to comment and a local news reporter tweeted that the oldest son of the father (either grown or almost) alleges abuse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 For some reason Capistan is making me think of flea meds or some sort of ointment? Maybe because it sounds like both CapStar and capsaicin? Anyhoo, I am thinking it is supposed to be something like a portmanteau of Capital and Christian? Regardless, not a good name. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/a-former-off-grid-homeschooled-childs-thoughts-on-the-naugler-family/ This is a good article. The link goes to a "page not found" page when I try it. Here, though, is an article of the same title, from the same website: https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/a-former-off-grid-homeschooled-childs-thoughts-on-the-naugler-family/ Looks identical to your link. I wonder whether this one I have posted will work -- ? The author's personal experience seems to render him a quite reputable commentator. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 For some reason Capistan is making me think of flea meds or some sort of ointment? Maybe because it sounds like both CapStar and capsaicin? Anyhoo, I am thinking it is supposed to be something like a portmanteau of Capital and Christian? Regardless, not a good name. It is a small Central Asian republic. Sometimes spelled as "Khapystan". (late afternoon, attempted humor born of fatigue) 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 That's a lot of quotation marks... " :confused1: " :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I knew a family living in a teepee for two years. I knew a small commune of three families living in a communal yurt. And I never, ever, saw living conditions even half as dangerous, anarchistic or filthy as what is shown on the “Blessed Little Homestead†site and Facebook page. From https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/a-former-off-grid-homeschooled-childs-thoughts-on-the-naugler-family/ Found that interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/a-former-off-grid-homeschooled-childs-thoughts-on-the-naugler-family/ This is a good article. Whoops, didn't see this! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artichoke Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I thought HSLDA wasn't down with unschooling? Or do they look the other way on that front because of the religious, large family and parental rights aspects of this case? I'm hoping that HSLDA doesn't get fully involved, for a variety of reasons. Their lack of following the KY homeschooling laws ( if it's true ) should negate HSLDA's involvement in my opinion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Also, why is she carrying all the water here? She has had 10 kids and counting. She works (presumably PT) as a dog groomer. She sells bows. She blogs. The kids roam and weren't being schooled. Of the things (however insufficient) that seem to be happening, it's all her. What, do tell, is he doing? Clearly it's not building them a house or installing a water system. This was my perception. There are photos of biscuits she baked with the kids and at work grooming dogs. It looks like she is putting effort in. But one person on their own can't make that kind of lifestyle work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 They left the courthouse crying & refusing to comment and a local news reporter tweeted that the oldest son of the father (either grown or almost) alleges abuse. I wonder if that is the boy with the darker hair? I was noticing that he looks very unhappy in most of the pictures. :( Or is this person not living with the family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeenagerMom Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I wonder if that is the boy with the darker hair? I was noticing that he looks very unhappy in most of the pictures. :( Or is this person not living with the family? A 19 year old who the father's rights were terminated several years ago. He lived with them for 3 years and didn't return after a visit to his mother's. His Uncle got custody of him. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/a-former-off-grid-homeschooled-childs-thoughts-on-the-naugler-family/ This is a good article. Oh wow. Thank you for sharing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 My Twitter feed says the parents are going to criminal court tomorrow. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyhwkmama Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/a-former-off-grid-homeschooled-childs-thoughts-on-the-naugler-family/ This is a good article. Worth the read! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I thought HSLDA wasn't down with unschooling? Or do they look the other way on that front because of the religious, large family and parental rights aspects of this case? They're LDS. HSLDA has refused to represent LDS people (who had been paying fees annually and were actually following the law) in the past. I'm guessing it's the parental rights aspect. HSLDA has been really into that lately. Seems like a crazy case for them to get involved with, though, since the family wasn't homeschooling legally, plus everything else. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Off-grid doesn't mean "batshit and living in the woods". It just means off the electrical grid and not on public utilities. I daresay people living in the more remote parts of the San Juan Islands where there are no public utilities to hook up to even if they want to are living "off the grid". Grid means something and it's not synonymous with market or community. Well, I agree it doesn't mean crazy, it just so happens that the only people I know who choose that lifestyle are a bit out there. I have already said, obviously they are not using that term how I use it. I don't claim ownership of the term,. I am explaining my understanding of their situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Oh wow. Thank you for sharing. I cannot get itI cannot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 They're LDS. HSLDA has refused to represent LDS people (who had been paying fees annually and were actually following the law) in the past. Why doesn't that surprise me? I find less and less to like about HSLDA the longer I homeschool. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Looks like they aren't getting the kids back this week. The oldest son testified against his parents. Now, I read a post that Nicole wrote about how they lost custody of Alex, her husband's oldest child with another woman. She says all the abuse allegations were lies. If she's telling the truth, it's all very tragic of course. Though I'm surprised a 19 year old would pop up out of nowhere and continue to claim there was abuse when none existed and when he's had nothing to do with his father in all these years. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I thought HSLDA wasn't down with unschooling? Or do they look the other way on that front because of the religious, large family and parental rights aspects of this case? I'm not sure. I was wondering whether their legal fees would cost all the money donated or if HSLDA was representing them pro bono and they could get legal representation free and actually use the money for property improvements. IOW, the believability of their claims of how the $$$ will be spent is increased if they have free legal representation. I'm wondering if anyone knows the extent of HSLDA's involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Worth the read! The link isn't working for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmyopinion Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Whose only funding project thus far is the grooming business. I wonder who is behind Capistan? Wow, I did not notice that until you pointed that out This get's weirder and weirder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Also, she defends her husband saying he's a full time dad and that's his work and if he was a woman, no one would be criticizing him. And that may be so. It's just... he's never in any pictures with the kids or in any stories about what they're up to. When the kids got sick from eating spoiled pancakes, she took pictures of them laying on blankets in the dirt and said one of their sisters was the one tending to them and she even mentioned that though the baby wasn't sick, the girl was also looking after the baby. Where were either of her parents in all this? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikslo Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The link isn't working for me. Try Orthodox6's link in post 274 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [disregard. PP sent you there.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 They left the courthouse crying & refusing to comment and a local news reporter tweeted that the oldest son of the father (either grown or almost) alleges abuse. Did you happen to find out if he was alleging abuse only with himself as the victim, or all the kids? And did he live with them before or after this "off the grid" bit? I'm wondering if testified that the current living situation is abusive (no heat, etc) or if was saying he was abused even before this fiasco. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [error] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Guys, you're really making me want a yurt. How much does a yurt cost? Could we build one? Should we buy land and build a yurt?! Then we can build a house while we live in it. :lol: :lol: Thanks a lot. :toetap05: :smilielol5: I think I've definitely decided what I want to do on our next long weekend away (because we have those... ever. :huh: ) .... definitely want to at least rent a yurt and stay in it for a few days. :coolgleamA: Maybe you can convince SWB to expand her bed & breakfast inn to include a yurt option. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyhwkmama Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The link isn't working for me. https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/a-former-off-grid-homeschooled-childs-thoughts-on-the-naugler-family/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 For some reason Capistan is making me think of flea meds or some sort of ointment? Maybe because it sounds like both CapStar and capsaicin? Anyhoo, I am thinking it is supposed to be something like a portmanteau of Capital and Christian? Regardless, not a good name. I can't get your post out of my mind because it is spot on! Capsaicin had sprung to my mind, also. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I can't get your post out of my mind because it is spot on! Capsaicin had sprung to my mind, also. Capistrano...where the swallows return... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyhwkmama Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Something that I find so telling about this whole situation is the lack of personal responsibility. These parents invited government involvement into their lives when they trespassed on their neighbor's property and stole his water. They have to own that, and unless they do I don't think there is much hope for them. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/a-former-off-grid-homeschooled-childs-thoughts-on-the-naugler-family/ This is a good article. Very good article. What this author lived is what my brother and family lived, perhaps not coincidentally in the same area of the country. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I think the key thing about HSLDA is that they'll represent nearly anyone regardless of what sort of homeschooling they do who they think will get them the attention (and funds) they want. And that they won't represent anyone who they don't feel like representing. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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