purpleowl Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 If she's not too far along, then she'd probably be due around the end of the fall semester, right? Could she do that semester at the farther school, working out plans regarding finals with her professors at the beginning of the semester, take spring off, then transfer to the closer school? It may also be the case that there are options where the farther school is for childcare for students who are parents, which she could learn about during the fall term, but she would probably have to go in with the expectation that she'd transfer back closer to home. Or would there be issues with getting prenatal care if she were away? I do agree that while her relationship with the guy is important, it should probably be considered as a separate issue. I'm sure that's easier said than done, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm919 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 *hugs* This is so hard... I understand when you say she has to make her own decisions but I would try to give her all the information you can get about the consequences and resources that are available to her. From what I can tell she has some legal protections guaranteed under Title IX. There is a good resource at the National Women's Law Center specifically for college students. Additionally, her first year may have a lot of classes that are available online, that could enable her to maintain student status. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 In our situation this wouldn't really be appropriate. But thank you for helping. Oh Barb, I didn't understand the full implications of the situation until after I had written the first reply. What a difficult situation. Many hugs all around. Wish there were a perfect solution to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 First, big hugs. What a tough spot. This is 2015, being a single mom isn't ideal but there are worse fates and it sounds like she has a wonderfully supportive home life. I think I'd put the scholarship out of my head. There are other scholarships and other schools. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Well, there is simply not enough time to figure out if this man-child will grow up...that cannot factor into the decision at all. She must be independent of him from here on, and it starts with this decision. (If they stay together, she cannot "follow" him.) In 5 years, where does she want to be? If that isn't possible, what would the best alternate route look like? Does it boil down to student loans vs baby in the end? Life is full of making decisions between less-than-ideal circumstances. It's OK. She's fortunate to have a mom who supports her. The best thing you can do is help her talk through possibilities without swaying her in any direction and offering real support whatever she chooses. Also - not all crisis pregancy centers are created equal. Some are not places I'd support, but many are full of compassionate people who just want to help. A key to what you are dealing with is that the centers who try to distance themselves from the extremes don't usually call themselves "Crisis Pregnancy Center" anymore. I've seen the inside of a few, and they offer informed consent peer counseling - judgement free. And they also offer lots of practical & financial support...student fees at school, gas $, diapers, electric bills, help finding childcare, healthcare, parenting books & classes, etc, etc, etc... These people are very well connected to all sorts of helps and know how to make this rough time a bit easier. You could call around to see if you have a good one in your area. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_go_gadget Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I don't have daughters her age, but I've had my eyes open all my life. And I've seen this work out both ways. In one scenario, both parties are able to grow up, settle down, and work out a life together. In the other scenario, Peter Pan (the perpetual boy) is attracted to Sharp Tack (the going-somewhere girl), but things happen.... If she hooks up with him, she ends up with not one baby, but two. And that is a heavy load, from what I've seen (from a distance). She has goals and abilities, a baby, and a man who will happily be kept. Will he do anything? Will he lift a finger to help carry the load? I am truly sorry I don't have better news. Like I said, it could go either way, but it will in large measure depend on the measure of this "man." How much of a man is he? If he is not going to "man up," and she has this baby, Peter Pan will be in her life forever, one way or the other, for good or bad, even if he never gets his act together. But if you encourage her in the other direction, how will that impact your relationship with her down the road? Will she blame anyone who encourages her to think of herself, her future? You are in a tough spot, for sure. My first husband was a Peter Pan (and his own best friends used those exact words when we announced my pregnancy, pre-marriage). He's a nice guy and means well, but I carried the weight of being the only grown-up in the relationship (despite his being more than two decades older). Sahamamama is exactly right: I did end up with two babies, not that I would trade them, and I felt trapped. Stuff happened, and I left him. I've remarried, very, very happily. He's still around and we're still friends (he officiated my wedding). My mother and her friends always joke that I never do anything the easy way and this is a prime example, but I made it and we're good. I definitely don't regret my children. Is the scholarship the only thing holding her back? It would be a tougher road without it, but not at all impossible. I started back at a CC when my second was a year old, and graduated with my B.S. in June, when she was seven. I started at the CC at 15, and I always say it was the longest Bachelor's degree ever, but I did have two kids and homeschool them in the meantime. If she chooses a school with online course offerings, it could be even easier, logistics-wise, while the baby's tiny. I worry that she feels she has only two options: terminate and keep her scholarship, or keep it and not go to college. Adoption is an option, and so is keeping her baby and getting a slower, harder degree, whether or not she marries the father. The people I know who've had terminations without regret are those for whom there was no question as to how they would proceed, and no angst. I also know people who terminated for financial reasons, and that's one heavy burden to carry forever. I wish you both all the wisdom and grace in the world as she makes her decision and you support her. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Also - not all crisis pregancy centers are created equal. Some are not places I'd support, but many are full of compassionate people who just want to help. A key to what you are dealing with is that the centers who try to distance themselves from the extremes don't usually call themselves "Crisis Pregnancy Center" anymore. I've seen the inside of a few, and they offer informed consent peer counseling - judgement free. And they also offer lots of practical & financial support...student fees at school, gas $, diapers, electric bills, help finding childcare, healthcare, parenting books & classes, etc, etc, etc... These people are very well connected to all sorts of helps and know how to make this rough time a bit easier. You could call around to see if you have a good one in your area. The problem is that it's almost impossible to figure out which is which before it's too late and some "counselor" has already convinced the pregnant woman that if she terminates she'll end up mentally ill, cancer-ridden, and on her way straight to hell. And the financial support is generally only available to pregnant woman who have agreed to carry the baby to term and then adopt it out to a couple with ties to the crisis center. Op, if you want your dd to make the decision without pressure, avoid crisis pregnancy centers like the plague. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 If it were me, I would offer support, not encourage (or discourage) marriage, encourage having the baby, and offer to adopt him. I'd suggest letting the chips fall where they may about college--it's much more common now for colleges to deal with this kind of issue, and I'll bet there are some great accommodations for it that are unknown as yet. Regarding the scholarship, I'd start in the fall with it, and I'd let the medical issues play out LIKE MEDICAL ISSUES ALWAYS DO. When I was in college I got mono and missed all my finals one spring. The college dealt with it according to their procedures about medical issues, and because I had a medical excuse I was able to make up all the finals and keep on going. It was lucky that it happened when it did so that I had the summer to recover, but I think that if I had had to withdraw for medical reasons during a regular quarter there would have been a provision for that as well. I imagine that things can be worked out with the scholarship and college FOR MEDICAL REASONS. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 :grouphug: Just as the pragmatist that I am, I'd be doing everything with the consideration that he might never change. That wouldn't stop me from talking with him, and with her, and trying to inspire them toward rising to the occasion (whatever that looks like) when there's a game changer of such magnitude...but I would be having those conversations because they're right, not because I'd think I could accelerate his maturity with my words. My focus would be on her fragility. I'd not want to make a move without a good counselor -- as many shades of this as a mother can see, the counselor who treated her for depression might have even more insight. I think I'd be as concerned about the outcome of her moving far away from home support directly after these events as about any other part of the scenario. It might be that the NM school is no longer best for that reason, which might make it easier to let it go if she has to. Or -- starting over elsewhere (especially sans boyfriend) might be excellent if she's strong and resilient enough. I don't know. Just throwing these things out there. I wouldn't think I could count on this guy at all. I'd be worried about her leaving home before she recovers from all of this, no matter what she decides. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 go_go_gadget, that's what women of my acquaintance have said, too. It was the lack of choice, feeling cornered and reacting in fear, that led to regret after terminations. You said what I was thinking, better than I did, about helping her to see that it's not a black and white decision between college and baby. There are other paths to whatever SHE decides she wants, if she needs to take more time or go another way. 18yos often need help seeing that there are myriad choices when they're only able to see a very limited future. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I just what to offer you a hug and say that I hope that whatever route your daughter takes, it is the right choice for her. That's a hard place to navigate. She's lucky to have a mom like you. Thank you for being the mom she needs. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The problem is that it's almost impossible to figure out which is which before it's too late and some "counselor" has already convinced the pregnant woman that if she terminates she'll end up mentally ill, cancer-ridden, and on her way straight to hell. And the financial support is generally only available to pregnant woman who have agreed to carry the baby to term and then adopt it out to a couple with ties to the crisis center. Op, if you want your dd to make the decision without pressure, avoid crisis pregnancy centers like the plague. This is not the thread to argue. It's really easy to see what you are dealing with. Barb could make a phone call and know within 5min. A good center is up front about their purpose being to educate & provide support for women who choose to parent with a secondary purpose to provide counseling support to women who choose adoption or abortion. A good center has a working relationship w/ adoption people, but refers to them and doesn't partner with them. A good center has trained counselors who do informed consent peer counseling. I am trained as a counselor, and we would be kicked out if we ever pressured a client the way you describe. We help the client to see all of the various options, and let them choose. Then offer support, yes, even counseling post-abortion (though we don't encourage those...but honestly, when they see all the help available to them and see past the next 9mo, they find a path that includes a healthy life for both mom & baby in about an 8/10 ratio.) Call and ask for an abortion appt, and see how they react. It will tell you everything you need to know. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I didn't want to quote you in case you were going to delete anything later, but is it possible that you can offer up your honest opinion to her in a gentle way? I know you want this to be her decision, and my mother was very much like that when she dealt with me when I was a teen, but I did appreciate her straightforward and unvarnished opinion, even though I didn't always agree. After you've offered up your your straightforward and honest opinion, you can also offer up that you would support her in anyway regardless of her decision. Given that you said you two have a close relationship, I think your opinion would be respected because of the wisdom that comes with age and your status as her mother. Then you will have offered your best and honest advice, but still let her know that the decision was in her hands and she would have back up support no matter what. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 This is not the thread to argue. It's really easy to see what you are dealing with. Barb could make a phone call and know within 5min. A good center is up front about their purpose being to educate & provide support for women who choose to parent with a secondary purpose to provide counseling support to women who choose adoption or abortion. A good center has a working relationship w/ adoption people, but refers to them and doesn't partner with them. A good center has trained counselors who do informed consent peer counseling. I am trained as a counselor, and we would be kicked out if we ever pressured a client the way you describe. We help the client to see all of the various options, and let them choose. Then offer support, yes, even counseling post-abortion (though we don't encourage those...but honestly, when they see all the help available to them and see past the next 9mo, they find a path that includes a healthy life for both mom & baby in about an 8/10 ratio.) Call and ask for an abortion appt, and see how they react. It will tell you everything you need to know. No one is arguing. But the OP should certainly be made aware, if she isn't already, that there are a ton of really awful crisis pregnancy centers out there. It's relevant to the topic at hand. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Given her feeling of having no other options I think she will have life long regrets and likely resentments if she follows the typical pp path. Given her fragile mental state I would say it could possibly be enough to derail her education anyway. I am wondering why she could not go to school while pregnant(I did with my oldest), and then either give it up for adoption, or if you guys are willing, have the child living with you during the school year while she continues attending in order to make the best life for her and her child. SHe may love the guy, he may be brilliant, but if he is so damaged he can not step up adequately in this situation then he is not going to be there long term and she will still need that education. Going the typical pp route means she has only weeks to decide, whereas still attending school but carrying to term means having months to decide what to do as far as adoption etc. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readinmom Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Many :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: for your daughter and you... I know that no matter what the decision, you will always be there for her. That's something some kids could only dream about. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I was the college girl who had the baby (though a little different situation because I was already married and I was 22 and not 18 which helps a bit with the knowing what you want thing). I know plenty who, like me, had the baby and are now happy youngish parents of middle and highschool kids. I know plenty who decided that termination was the best choice for any number of reasons and are now happy without children or who are first time 30 something parents. All of us combined are doing ok. More than ok in most cases. I just wanted to point out that there are plenty of people who make either decision who are not racked with guilt or living miserably a decade or more out. I know you know that having lived it yourself. Hopefully she will be happy in the long run regardless. And definitely see if there's a medical deferment allowed. You might be nicely surprised. It's not the first time this has happened. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Another option, perhaps has been considered and I missed it, is that she goes to college and has the baby. Hardly ever is someone going to lose their scholarship over a pregnancy. While going to prenatals by herself isn't ideal, lots of women have done it (and there's a good chance she makes 1 friend who might go with her). She can then send the baby home to stay with grandma while she's at college (if grandma is willing/able) and she can resume full-time parenting when she graduates. It's not easy on her or grandma, but it's possible, and in 4 years she'll have an education and a child. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 And definitely see if there's a medical deferment allowed. You might be nicely surprised. It's not the first time this has happened. I was going to suggest this. Multiple school websites seem to indicate that a NM scholarship can be deferred for medical reasons for up to two semesters. She'd have to talk to the school and the NM people, but it looks like it could be a possibility. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_go_gadget Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I was going to suggest this. Multiple school websites seem to indicate that a NM scholarship can be deferred for medical reasons for up to two semesters. She'd have to talk to the school and the NM people, but it looks like it could be a possibility. I've seen a ''Leave of Absence Request'' mentioned specifically for NM, and in relation to medical situations. This would certainly seem to qualify as a ''medical situation''. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 My sister stayed in school and had my niece. She had originally decided to give the baby up for adoption but changed her mind. My BIL (they didn't get married until later on) worked nights and was home with the baby when my sister went to classes. She took a lighter course load than she would have otherwise, but it didn't significantly delay her graduation. I helped with childcare too, as did my parents and friends. BIL went to school and got his degree several years later after my sister got a job in her field. It wasn't an easy start, but they made it work. He was never a Peter Pan and is one of the most hard-working people I've ever met, though, so I know it's not the same situation your DD is facing. It's a tough decision no matter what she decides. I hope she's able to consider her options and not feel pressured to do what she feels she should do if it isn't what she wants to do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I would offer to take care of the baby until they could handle it. Whatever happens, please make sure she is making a free choice and not feeling pressured to do what someone else thinks is best. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 OP, how much could your older dd at UoA help out? Will she be a good support for 18yo or is that too much to ask of her? This question is relevant either way. If both of the parents have mental health issues and the father's are affecting his ability to live a productive life, you'll need to be prepared that the child might have significant special needs. Sorry to be a Debbie Downer but it's better to have that possibility in your mind at least, even if you don't share it with your dd. I think you need to sort out what you're willing to do to support her if she makes each decision. It would be best for her to know what to expect from you before she makes up her mind. You don't want to find yourself a year from now with a major rift because she thought you'd pay for the local college or provide unlimited childcare or let her live at home without going to school or getting a job or let her bf move in with your family. It's best to lay out the limits of what you can do straight up now. :grouphug: OP, you're strong enough to do this. You've been on your own for five years and done a wonderful job with your kids. You'll be able to handle this too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: What a challenging situation. I don't have any advice. I do believe from your posts that you are a wise and compassionate momma who will offer whatever support and help your dd and her young man need. :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 You sound like a sweet mom, Barb. It sounds like you have all ready, but just in case you didn't, tell her what you told us - that you will help in any way possible, don't condemn her for getting into a tight situation, and advise no drastic action of any kind right now. Having a baby doesn't mean you must marry. In fact, I'd highly advise them to wait six to twelve month postpartum to consider it, so the hormones can be sorted out and the situation seen with clear eyes by your daughter. If he cannot support a family and isn't able to or has no interest in trying, your daughter is much, much better off keeping herself and her child safe at home with you until the right partner enters their lives. Hugs! I'm praying for you both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnIslandGirl Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 At a girls night out, this topic came up a few years ago. I was surprised to find out that 4 of our friends had terminated at some point (some were in relationships, one wasn't and one was even married). We all knew about one, because she had a tough time and told us about it as it was happening, but the others had just kept it quiet and moved on, continuing to lead wonderful lives. Most have children now, and mentioned that although they sometimes wonder "what if", they have no regrets because they know that it was the right decision (for them) in that time of their lives. That is really all that matters. Your dd will make a choice that is for her, what she feels is right. I'm sure your support either way will mean the world to her, even if she's in a fragile place right now. Best wishes and much peace. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I agree with the others who have said she needs to try and consider the situation as if she is on her own and leave him out of the decision making for now. I spent time working in the alternative health field and took a lot of patient intakes and assessments. In that way I know about many terminations that the women's friends and families did not. As part of my treatment of them, I asked them about residual psychological, emotional, or physical problems. Some of the women who had terminated had regrets, but many did not. I just want to present the other side of the coin. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: What a challenging situation. I don't have any advice. I do believe from your posts that you are a wise and compassionate momma who will offer whatever support and help your dd and her young man need. :grouphug: I agree. And I believe you've gotten some well-thought-out advice here. Prayers/good thoughts for you and your dd. :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjackoaktree Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 offering hugs to you because I know how hard this can be. I lived this situation (not NM but a tied scholarship) and a peter-pan kind of guy. I did end up choosing to carry the baby and take classes, though it backfired on me because I ended up on medical bedrest. However, I actually found it fairly easy to navigate the university environment with a little one, actually easier than as an older, employed parent. So if she does choose to go that route, there's more options open than you might think. Our campus had family housing where you could have one or two children, and I would have a student watch him while I was in class unitl he was old enough for the lab school. I hope whatever choice she ends up making, she will find peace. You sound like a good parent with her needs in mind, so I'm glad she has you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Oh my, oh my, oh my. I can't imagine what you are going through. PP offers many options. I hope the no-implantation pill works for her so she just does not get pregnant. Re: marriage: My two cents, take it or leave it: They can get married at any time. Marriage to a person in college means taking on any debt he has. She absolutely should not do this under any circumstances if he has college loan debt--not now. I cannot emphasize enough that marriage today is a very legal arrangement when children and debt are involved. I understand that she may want to legitimize, whatever that means, the family, the baby. That he may decided to step up and "do the right thing". However in our society, the laws are written to ensure that first and foremost, children are the priority. They do not need a legal contract to make a family. They do not need a legal contract to ensure that they both support the baby: the laws in most states today ensure that child support has nothing to do with marriage. Unlike others, I would strongly discourage marriage borne of an unplanned pregnancy. But that is my opinion on marriage, not on what to do with a possible pregnancy, or a baby. I don't believe so. She would lose her scholarship I'm not sure why this is so. I may be missing something. Why can't she be pregnant and go to school, and have regular meetings with potential adoptive parents? Particularly as it sounds like they are healthy young people with no drug use, there is likely no problem finding a couple interested in open adoption. It will be hard, but not nearly as hard as supporting two parents through college and taking care of a baby! "Birth control failed, but I'm having the baby and we know a wonderful couple who's been waiting for years to start a family this way. It's hard but at least I am helping create a new family." I am not opposed to any of the options in and of themselves. I hope your daughter finds peace. I hope that whatever she does she knows that she has made the right decision for herself and her present and future family. She is not the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 On one hand you say you want it to be her decision, but on the other hand you are actively creating an environment for her that *you* think is appropriate. Do you want her to make her own decision, or a decision which is based on the parameters that you present to her? I think she should be encouraged to truly make her own decision (which includes reaching out to other sources of information, for example), independent of your influences, OR she should be encouraged to make an openly mom-supported decision. It can't be both. If it were me, with an emotionally fragile 18 year old (and my13 yo is emotionally fragile) I'd be leaning towards a mom-supported decision, rather than forcing a child to suddenly mature emotionally in a stressful situation. I think you're making some assumptions here - I don't recall the OP saying that she was the one who suggested and made the appointment. Nor is she preventing or actively discouraging her from reaching out to other sources of information. I'm assuming she has to about 17, so it's not like it would be difficult for her to access a phone or the internet even if she didn't choose to let mom know. Friends, libraries, McDonald's, Starbucks - most places have a myriad of free internet that is easily accessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livetoread Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 If it was my daughter, I'd want her to think about a basic question - does she want to be a mother? (Edited to say: Does she want to be a mother now? I don't mean ever.) If yes, there are options for college too. If not, I would validate that. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I was going to suggest this. Multiple school websites seem to indicate that a NM scholarship can be deferred for medical reasons for up to two semesters. She'd have to talk to the school and the NM people, but it looks like it could be a possibility. I was wondering about this. Barb, what if a NM scholar needed to defer for other medical treatment -- cancer or surgery or something? How is pregnancy not a medical condition? See if this helps. http://financialaid.arizona.edu/types-aid/scholarships/scholarship-deferment-policy-and-form 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Unlike others, I would strongly discourage marriage borne of an unplanned pregnancy. You mean unlike others in general? No one has encouraged it in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 You mean unlike others in general? No one has encouraged it in this thread. Sorry, that was unclear. Unlike others who said they would not encourage or discourage specific options. I would not forbid but I would explain the legal consequences of marriage, particularly in terms of debt, income, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Barb...I want to send my best wishes for a good outcome for your DD. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Sorry, that was unclear. Unlike others who said they would not encourage or discourage specific options. I would not forbid but I would explain the legal consequences of marriage, particularly in terms of debt, income, etc. How does marriage make one responsible for the other persons student loans? I've never heard that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 :grouphug: Pming you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 How does marriage make one responsible for the other persons student loans? I've never heard that. You aren't taking on the other person's debt that they made before marriage in a legal sense, but certainly it will affect you in a practical sense as long as you are married. Once you are married, it depends on what state you live in. In some states, you are only jointly responsible for debts you take on jointly, such as a mortgage or joint credit cards - two very common things for couples to have. In community property states, you both own a debt even if only one of you takes it on. This applies to assets as well. Any debt that is refinanced during marriage has the potential to become joint debt. OP, I feel for you and your dd at this super-stressful time. It will be easier once she makes a decision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Thank you katilac. You explained it for me. Honestly I do not want to derail the thread. The point is that marriage is a legal contract, not just a declaration that you're going to try really hard, so I would really avoid entering into it under distress and as joyful as pregnancy may be at times, unplanned pregnancy is usually a distress, even if you are pro-baby. That is all. I am not trying to make a point about marriage in general. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Do you guys remember the older boyfriend situation from last year? I took some of your very good advice and pulled him in, got to know him, developed a relationship, etc. It turns out he's a nice guy, a little weird, lol, but he has a good heart. But. He's now 25, still has no job (although he's meandering through community college), and the inevitable has happened. Darling daughter has a large scholarship that's tied to NM and cannot be deferred. She has a PP appt on tues but I'm pretty sure she's doing it because she thinks she has no choice given the circumstances. I'm being deliberately vague to salvage as much privacy as possible. I just need help thinking this through. Can anyone come up with some unusual alternatives? Do I talk to this young man and say hey! Get a job and be a man? Do I just stay out of it? She is the most emotionally fragile of my children and has been on meds for depression for the past year, and she sees a good counsellor, so I'm thankful for that ongoing support. There is the possibility that she is doing it because she thinks she has no choice, OR there is the possibility she is doing it because she has decided that she isn't ready to become a parent now, with this man, and wants to continue on the path she planned. The latter is a less passive set of thoughts than the former. Can you talk with her to clarify her reasons? Is it possible to explore her thinking gently? Myself, I would not be able to navigate this without getting involved, and I also think that you are a good mom and know your daughter so won't push her toward any particular outcome for your own reasons. It sounds like you are not categorically opposed to visiting PP for this intended purpose, or opposed to materially supporting her if she chooses to go forward and relies heavily on you for the next few years. At the very least, you can make sure your dd is aware of this (IF you can materially support her). If she is very relieved that you WILL support her, that gives you a big clue about her thinking. By the same token, if she is very relieved to be going forward with the PP appointment, that also gives you a big clue. I am a big fan of drawing inspiration from stories and this situation makes me think of the scene in A Tree Grows in Brooklyn when Katie has just given birth to Francie and all at once, she realizes that Johnny will not be there for her, and she will need to be mother to her baby and also be responsible for him. She faces this unflinchingly. Not sure why I am even saying this, particularly since it sounds like you are not that sure about this young man's potential to get his act together, and he may do it after all, particularly if faced with a young family. As far as unusual alternatives, I think (saying this gently) that some of those depend on you and the extent to which you'd be supportive-ie, raising her child until she gets her degree? Adopting this child yourself? Providing a lot of material support to both of them until they are independent? Clarify your own position and it will be easier to talk to your daughter about it.((((hugs)))) to all of you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Sorry, that was unclear. Unlike others who said they would not encourage or discourage specific options. I would not forbid but I would explain the legal consequences of marriage, particularly in terms of debt, income, etc. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I know women who have shared with me that they terminated pregnancies. Not a single one of them regretted it. They all know that is was the best decision, and they would do it again if they had to go back in time....well, not getting pg would be what they first would have changed. Getting an abortion does not guarantee a sentence to an entire lifetime of regret, sadness, and guilt. It can be, and many times is, a chance to continue on the path the woman wants to be on, or to get off the current path she finds herself on but does not want to be. This is her decision. Like a pp said, the question she needs to answer is does she want to be a mother at this time in her life and does she know what that really means? She can talk to the people at PP. Unlike what many people believe they are not "pro-abortion" and they will support her decision either way. They can answer her questions if she has any. I'm sorry she's facing this but she will make it through :grouphug: 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I am a big fan of drawing inspiration from stories and this situation makes me think of the scene in A Tree Grows in Brooklyn when Katie has just given birth to Francie and all at once, she realizes that Johnny will not be there for her, and she will need to be mother to her baby and also be responsible for him. She faces this unflinchingly. Not sure why I am even saying this, particularly since it sounds like you are not that sure about this young man's potential to get his act together, and he may do it after all, particularly if faced with a young family. That was one of my favorite books growing up. It made me determined to run like hell from any Johnny-type people in my life, lol. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I know women who have shared with me that they terminated pregnancies. Not a single one of them regretted it. They all know that is was the best decision, and they would do it again if they had to go back in time....well, not getting pg would be what they first would have changed. Getting an abortion does not guarantee a sentence to an entire lifetime of regret, sadness, and guilt. It can be, and many times is, a chance to continue on the path the woman wants to be on, or to get off the current path she finds herself on but does not want to be. This is her decision. Like a pp said, the question she needs to answer is does she want to be a mother at this time in her life and does she know what that really means? She can talk to the people at PP. Unlike what many people believe they are not "pro-abortion" and they will support her decision either way. They can answer her questions if she has any. I'm sorry she's facing this but she will make it through :grouphug: I am concerned that a young person who suffers from depression would possibly be more likely to question and regret the decision later, especially if made under a sense of pressure. In my experience, anxiety and depression incline a person to self condemnation and feelings of shame and guilt. Abortion is not a choice I could personally embrace or encourage, but for this young woman I am merely hoping she can feel confident and at peace about whatever choice she makes. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 So my dd15 says "wow that is a tough thing to have to worry about instead of just being excited about the scholarship. SHe should dump the guy and tell him that when he is ready to grow up an be a man he can come around again, but until then she needs to be strong on her own. She should go to school and not worry about what people think about her being pregnant, it will be hard but if she wants to make it work she can." WHen I asked daughter what she would do if it was her in that situation she said she would go to school and have the baby, and work really hard to make sure she kept her scholarship to make a good life for herself and baby. WHen I asked how she would take care of a baby and go to school, she said "well if I could I would have you take care of it while I was in school, but if I couldn't do that I would do what you have always done, whatever it takes, so I would put baby in daycare and go to classes, If I have to work a little bit to cover daycare costs maybe I could find something on campus like you did when you worked in the computer lab, I would make it work knowing that it is only a few short years of struggle to a very good life, and if that didn't work I would do what you are doing now, work all day and then do classes at night."She also says "tell her that if he is not grown up already knowing there is a baby then he is not likely to grow up anytime soon, when you and dad had me and A dad was not grown up at all, and he barely is now, at least now he works though. If she has the baby it will be better off with a mom who is ready to do it all alone, than with one that is hoping for its dad to grow up, trust me" 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 So my dd15 says "wow that is a tough thing to have to worry about instead of just being excited about the scholarship. SHe should dump the guy and tell him that when he is ready to grow up an be a man he can come around again, but until then she needs to be strong on her own. She should go to school and not worry about what people think about her being pregnant, it will be hard but if she wants to make it work she can." WHen I asked daughter what she would do if it was her in that situation she said she would go to school and have the baby, and work really hard to make sure she kept her scholarship to make a good life for herself and baby. WHen I asked how she would take care of a baby and go to school, she said "well if I could I would have you take care of it while I was in school, but if I couldn't do that I would do what you have always done, whatever it takes, so I would put baby in daycare and go to classes, If I have to work a little bit to cover daycare costs maybe I could find something on campus like you did when you worked in the computer lab, I would make it work knowing that it is only a few short years of struggle to a very good life, and if that didn't work I would do what you are doing now, work all day and then do classes at night." She also says "tell her that if he is not grown up already knowing there is a baby then he is not likely to grow up anytime soon, when you and dad had me and A dad was not grown up at all, and he barely is now, at least now he works though. If she has the baby it will be better off with a mom who is ready to do it all alone, than with one that is hoping for its dad to grow up, trust me" You have one perceptive and thoughtful young person there! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 You have one perceptive and thoughtful young person there! she has her moments lol I think it is 1 upside to her having grown up experiencing the struggles we have had as a single parent home and the conversations we have had about things I wish I had done differently. She may walk past a sink full of dirty dishes without it ever clicking that perhaps she should wash them, but when I asked what she would do in this situation she pleasantly surprised me enough to share it here. Back to the OP, no matter what your dd chooses I hope that she will feel at peace with it and go on to be successful in college and beyond. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingmom Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 There has been a lot of good advice. I do think that things need to be thought of in as simple terms as possible.... So first is the consideration of what to do with the baby - without worrying about the father, or the education/scholarship. So - trying to just think in those terms - there are really 3 basic options - with some variations in them. In no particular order 1. termination - which could (as she suffers from depression) cause some emotional issues for some while. 2. adoption - a viable choice. (and there are variations. open, closed, within the family, etc.) 3. keeping the baby (assuming her raising it on her own - she needs to be prepared for it to be on her own if she makes the decision to keep - the father/other help is kind of a side-option as in any situation you can't count on it. (ie, even if the father was saying immediately that he would be involved and had a job etc - it isn't unusual for that to change as the pregnancy progresses or the baby is actually born.) 4. keeping the baby with definite extra help from you (ie, the suggestions above of you caring for the baby while she goes to school) - this of course is only an option if you offer it.... After that is decided - then there is the education/scholarship to look at - which might be affected based on the baby decision. Some options/considerations: if baby was terminated - is she ready to go to another city and start college - or is she going to need extra support?? if baby is going to be kept/adopted - when is it likely to be due? is going to college a possibility? medical deferrment possible (if baby being kept/adopted) etc change to a local college? etc But I think the baby question really needs to be settled FIRST without the main worry being the education/scholarship. Figure that part out after. No rush - in my opinion - to decide about the father.... a lot of that is going to be determined by him. I wouldn't recommend a rush into marriage or anything like that.... and a lot of these fathers disappear when baby arrives. (I know a lot don't disappear too - but honestly it can be hard to tell which it is going to be until the baby has been around for a while.) (btw - my step-daughter had a child at age 17 - and I was her step-mom at the time. there wasn't a scholarship to be factored in - but there was everything else. So my advice is with experience. I hope I've expressed myself well.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I know 6 women that I know have had abortions. 1 is still thrilled that she did it and that she doesn't have anything more to do with the (worthless) father 1 regards it as a tragic necessity that she is not really responsible for (she was date raped at 15 or 16. Her mother took her for the abortion.) 1 utterly believes it was the right thing to do, but felt pretty weird about it when she had an ultrasound of her (wanted) daughter at about the same gestational point as her abortion 1 is totally relieved AFAIK (she was in 8th grade when she went to a party and was courted and seduced by a much older man and got pregnant) 1 hates that she did it and actually eventually went to work as a volunteer to tell her story to those who are considering abortion 1 feels horribly guilty to this day, years later, and it contributes to depression for her There is nothing I know of that is more varied than people's eventual reactions to having had abortions. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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