Ignoring certain rules--am I wrong?

[Moxie]

My 12dd is going to be involved in a week long, all day, drop off homeschool activity. The rule is that tge participants can't bring cell phones and anyone caught with a cell phone will have it taken away.

 

I intend to have my dd take her phone and keep it in her purse. I don't know most of the people there and if she needs me to come get her or bring her something, I want her to have the ability to do that without asking permission.

 

Am I wrong to break this rule?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would ask organizers if that just means that they do not want children actually using or playing with the phones = which is reasonable.  Having a phone that is put away for emergency use would not negate their rule in my  opinion.  

[vonfirmath]

I'll talk to the people putting on the activity and see what safeguards are in places so kids without cellphones can contact their parents if needed.  (OTOH I also don't see the need if you trust the person putting on the activity to have the child be able to contact you "without permission" -- Not have to ask fellow students she doesn't know, yes. But not needing to ask the people in charge?... Not so sure about that)

 

I don't think its a good idea to teach kids to circumvent rules. Plus it could lead to the cellphone being taken if someone gets into her purse/phone is "Flashed" when she's in the purse looking for something else.

 

[whitestavern]

No.  I would just be very sure you communicate to your dd that she is not to use it unless in an emergency.

[SKL]

I would clear it with the organizers first.  If necessary she could leave it with the teacher during the class or something.

[Miss Tick]

You could clear it with the facilitators that she will have it for emergencies but that it will remain "off" the entire time. If they say no you are back to where you started, if they understand then great! You could say something like, "of course I would expect it to be confiscated if you did see it during the program," if that seemed appropriate or soothing to them.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I completely understand why they have those rules.  I would ask the organizers what means they are providing for children to contact family members for anything they need. 

 

 

[Aiden]

I would talk to the organizers about methods for kids to contact parents and whatever other concerns you have. I would not send the phone against the rules without organizer consent. Part of participating in organized programs is agreeing to abide by the rules. If you're unwilling for your daughter to follow the rules, she should not participate.

[Joker]

I don't think it's wrong. My dds break that rule everyday in ps (as do the majority of students in their schools) and its never been a problem. They've never had to use it but they have them on them just in case. The rule here is in your locker but they only have one locker break a day so they keep it in their book bags.

[marbel]

I'm also not a fan of selectively breaking clear and reasonable rules.   

 

I would ask for clarification on the rule.  If they say "no, the phone must be left at home" I would ask how the child would get ahold of me if necessary.  And, if the answer to that didn't work for me, I wouldn't send my kid to the camp.   

 

In my experience "no cellphones" has meant "we don't want to see you messing with your phone, ever."   But I've always clarified the policy.   

 

 

[Loowit]

I would not break the rules but I tend to be a rule follower.  I don't break rules even if I disagree with them.  I would much rather work on getting them changed or finding a solution that will work.  I think that if you have concerns those should be addressed.  Talk to the person in charge and ask if it would be okay for her to keep her cell phone in her purse if it is off except for an emergency.

[plansrme]

I would tell my kid to take her phone and leave it off in her purse.  But I'm kind of a rebel like that and routinely feel free to flout unreasonable rules.

[Vera]

Ds went to a camp a few years ago that had a very strict no cell phone rule written in the paperwork. They were extremely clear that any cell phones would be confiscated. I sent him to camp without a cell phone and it turned out that he was the only one there without one. It was a huge pain for him to keep in touch with me since the wifi was spotty. I have ignored that rule ever since. I always send my kids everywhere with a cell phone.

[SparklyUnicorn]

BTW I am not against breaking rules sometimes.  This just happens to be one rule I agree with.  I would want to know how my kid could contact me though.  That's a fair question and if they don't provide an option then my kid will be bringing a phone if I could trust my kid not to play with the phone while there. 

[TammyS]

My 12dd is going to be involved in a week long, all day, drop off homeschool activity. The rule is that tge participants can't bring cell phones and anyone caught with a cell phone will have it taken away.

 

I intend to have my dd take her phone and keep it in her purse. I don't know most of the people there and if she needs me to come get her or bring her something, I want her to have the ability to do that without asking permission.

 

Am I wrong to break this rule?

 

Yes, you are wrong.

 

It is entirely reasonable to ask the organizers for some kind of arrangement, but to just ignore ahead of time a rule is wrong.  If you don't want to follow the rules, don't go.

[SparklyUnicorn]

My son frequently complains about his drama class.  The fun is ruined on a regular basis because half the kids are glued to their cell phones.  I'm sure many of their parents tell them not to do that and that they are to keep the phone in a pocket or whatever, but the kids don't listen.  They are rude and it makes the class pretty miserable for those who want to be there.  If the majority of kids kept the phone in a pocket or purse and never took it out except when really needed, there would be no need to have these sorts of rules, but that is not what happens. 

 

 

[albeto.]

While I understand these rules (no distractions like texting, phone calls, pictures, etc), the solution (phones will be taken away) seems a little to North Korea Control Freakish to me. Maybe that's why I don't like it. I don't think of it as helicopter parenting, but my child is my responsibility, and part of that responsibility includes them getting in touch with me the moment they feel they need to, not the moment someone else feels they're entitled to. But that's me and my kids, and we have our own issues. ;)

 

I think it is perfectly acceptable for you to ask her if there are people there she knows and trusts and would be comfortable enough to get help from. If she said no, phone could go in the purse without guilt. Tell her to keep it off, and not use it. If she said yes, then do what you want. Either way, I don't think it's ethically unjustified to break this rule. Kids come first. 

 

[fairfarmhand]

My dd has a tiny pocketknife on her key ring.  A leader in one of our groups, after her son acted foolish with a sharp object, banned "All sharp objects and weapons." I told my dd to just leave her keys in her bag and just not mention it. I know there are other boys in the class who carry pocketknives as a matter of routine and habit. I think they just do what my dd doe..leave them concealed.

 

I tell my dd to leave the phone off and concealed in her bag.

[prairiewindmomma]

I'd send the phone after notifying the leaders. Here's why. A couple of months ago, we sent ds to an event where he didn't take his phone. The leaders involved both had dead phones and didn't have their chargers with them. Neither could get ahold of us. Complications ensued.  It was utterly ridiculous and unacceptable, and I'm not sending my kids places without having their cell phones to that type of event again. If the adult leaders want to check in their phones at the beginning of the event, fine. But my kids WILL have immediate access to their phone unless there is a medic or experienced person there who can handle epi-pens and inhalers AND there is a dedicated landline for calling an ambulance.  The alternative is that I will keep them home. 

[Lisbeth]

My daughter has a very serious food allergy. We break this rule regularly. With 10 minutes until an exposure can lead to death, I don't play around...and we don't trust an adult to be around and/or act fast enough. We also broke the epi pen rule regularly, too, before it became more common for kids to be allowed to self carry. She never abuses either privilege. She rarely texts, etc, and never in the type of circumstance described. She never shows anyone her epipen.

I am mostly a person who respects rules, but I also break them when I feel it is necessary. I have always been this way, for better of worse. I am not a black-n-white-thinker type.

[hornblower]

I think I probably wouldn't sign up for such an activity or if it was really so amazing that the kids would be heartbroken, I'd break the rule.

I can understand teachers making a rule which says "if you use it recklessly in class or during activities, it will be put in a box at the front of the room" or a even a rule which says "bring it but it goes in this bin here during activities. If you need to use it, get up & walk outside with it & we'll assume you're ill or unwell & need to go home so we'll step out with you to help arrange that for you."

Those are reasonable rules.  No cell phones period is not a reasonable rule & if organizers were being obnoxious about it I'd just break the rule. I live in an earthquake zone & we have active shooter drills here and someone expects people now to send a kid without a phone? No way, not gonna happen.

[Guest]

A few more facts--

-The reason for the rule is because they want kids engaged and not playing on phones. I get that. I take issue with confiscating property. My dd has been told to leave her phone in her purse unless she is in a bathroom stall.

-This activity has a lot of unnecessary rules. No PDA. Modest dress only (it is March??). I know the people in charge and I'm sure they will not make an exception. They love their rules! It is also because I know the leaders that I want my dd to have a way to contact me without them.

 

Eta-at this activity last year, the adults told kids they needed a cell phone to try to trick them into showing that they had one. Adults acting like idiots piss me off

[Tsuga]

Ds went to a camp a few years ago that had a very strict no cell phone rule written in the paperwork. They were extremely clear that any cell phones would be confiscated. I sent him to camp without a cell phone and it turned out that he was the only one there without one. It was a huge pain for him to keep in touch with me since the wifi was spotty. I have ignored that rule ever since. I always send my kids everywhere with a cell phone.

 

That would piss me off. Can I ask which company or organization was running that camp?

 

I don't care which way the rule goes. What I care about is that the rules are thoughtful and enforced.

 

 

 

It is also because I know the leaders that I want my dd to have a way to contact me without them.

 

Sounds like a bad situation in general. I try to avoid stuff like that at all costs so I don't really know what to say. Seems like an invitation for drama. Best of luck to you.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

A few more facts--

-The reason for the rule is because they want kids engaged and not playing on phones. I get that. I take issue with confiscating property. My dd has been told to leave her phone in her purse unless she is in a bathroom stall.

-This activity has a lot of unnecessary rules. No PDA. Modest dress only (it is March??). I know the people in charge and I'm sure they will not make an exception. They love their rules! It is also because I know the leaders that I want my dd to have a way to contact me without them.

 

You don't trust the leaders and you disagree with the excessive/controlling rules? Why are you sending your daughter anywhere with these people?

[Guest]

You don't trust the leaders and you disagree with the excessive/controlling rules? Why are you sending your daughter anywhere with these people?

Hard to explain without a long boring story. Just assume I'm not putting my child in an unsafe environment and I have a reason for all my actions.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My kids don't do a lot of these mob group activities where there are 50 to 200 kids and 5 to 10 adults and all the youth are treated as children. If they can't take a cell phone and don't have freedom to follow their own best judgment in emergency situations, I don't want them there.

 

As a result they tend to go camping with their cousins and friends instead of attending summer camps. They go to church retreats or rallies or whatever if they can drive themselves, and come and go as young adults. They've gone as counselors to various type camps, but at that level they are expected to carry phones...

 

one of our many homeschool quirks, I guess. If our young adults act like young adults, we don't place them in situations where they are assumed to be less mature. That's going the wrong direction.

 

 

 

[hornblower]

You don't trust the leaders and you disagree with the excessive/controlling rules? Why are you sending your daughter anywhere with these people?

 

 

:iagree: This.

[SparklyUnicorn]

A few more facts--

-The reason for the rule is because they want kids engaged and not playing on phones. I get that. I take issue with confiscating property. My dd has been told to leave her phone in her purse unless she is in a bathroom stall.

-This activity has a lot of unnecessary rules. No PDA. Modest dress only (it is March??). I know the people in charge and I'm sure they will not make an exception. They love their rules! It is also because I know the leaders that I want my dd to have a way to contact me without them.

 

Eta-at this activity last year, the adults told kids they needed a cell phone to try to trick them into showing that they had one. Adults acting like idiots piss me off

 

Well yuck. 

[clementine]

I'm also not a fan of selectively breaking clear and reasonable rules.   

 

I would ask for clarification on the rule.  If they say "no, the phone must be left at home" I would ask how the child would get ahold of me if necessary.  And, if the answer to that didn't work for me, I wouldn't send my kid to the camp.   

 

In my experience "no cellphones" has meant "we don't want to see you messing with your phone, ever."   But I've always clarified the policy.   

 

^ This.  Exactly.  

[Guest]

You don't trust the leaders and you disagree with the excessive/controlling rules? Why are you sending your daughter anywhere with these people?

In general, the leaders and I have very different parenting styles. I believe a 12yo young woman has the right to make some decisions for herself (feeling comfortable in a situation, picking her own clothing) that these women do not. These women parent with rules, lots of rules. I do not.

[Amira]

I'd send the phone without hesitation and make sure my child knew it keep it put away, especially given the rest of what was posted about the activity.  But I'm not a stickler for following all the rules all the time. 

[fairfarmhand]

A few more facts--

-The reason for the rule is because they want kids engaged and not playing on phones. I get that. I take issue with confiscating property. My dd has been told to leave her phone in her purse unless she is in a bathroom stall.

-This activity has a lot of unnecessary rules. No PDA. Modest dress only (it is March??). I know the people in charge and I'm sure they will not make an exception. They love their rules! It is also because I know the leaders that I want my dd to have a way to contact me without them.

 

Eta-at this activity last year, the adults told kids they needed a cell phone to try to trick them into showing that they had one. Adults acting like idiots piss me off

 

I was with you until you got to the ETA.

 

Who are these people? The same ones who carp about kids being irresponsibly and immature, and then they want them to follow orders like infants until they are 18?

 

If you feel the activity is worthwhile, yes, send her. But with this foolishness, don't tell the adults that she has it, tell her to be secretive about it.

 

In your place, I probably wouldn't send my kid at all, but you've already said that you've decided to send her.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

In general, the leaders and I have very different parenting styles. I believe a 12yo young woman has the right to make some decisions for herself (feeling comfortable in a situation, picking her own clothing) that these women do not. These women parent with rules, lots of rules. I do not.

 

I'm with fairfarmhand, I was (nearly) with you until I saw the ETA. I really would not send my child with people who are into control and entrapment. The former is unreasonable but the second is nearly criminal. I'd wonder what else they were capable of, and my child wouldn't be under their power at any time.

 

Good people don't set up kids to catch them breaking the unreasonable rules. They can do that crap to their own kids if they must but other parents should not entrust their children to such people.

 

But if you do -- if your dd really wants to go and you think these are just poor judgment calls that won't get any more severe -- definitely don't send her without a way to call you.

 

I guess, to answer the original question, I do endorse breaking rules about phones sometimes. When you know your child is with people of dubious sense and character, that's no time to leave her without a phone no matter what they say.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Although is 12 a young woman? 

 

 

[Guest]

Although is 12 a young woman?

I think so.

[Reefgazer]

We routinely broke the school's rule on this (when DD was in public school); DD kept the sound on silent and the phone in her pocket.  I told her if she had an important situation she needed to communicate to me, she could go to the bathroom and text me.  I did this because the 5th grade teachers were abusive to the class I wasn't putting up with their crap for the remainder of the school year.  No, I don't think you are wrong; it's a parental decision.

My 12dd is going to be involved in a week long, all day, drop off homeschool activity. The rule is that tge participants can't bring cell phones and anyone caught with a cell phone will have it taken away.

I intend to have my dd take her phone and keep it in her purse. I don't know most of the people there and if she needs me to come get her or bring her something, I want her to have the ability to do that without asking permission.

Am I wrong to break this rule?

 

[Reefgazer]

The benefits to doing the activity probably greatly outweigh the drawbacks.  When I break rules, that's why.  I don't feel a stitch of guilt, either, as long as no one is hurt by our actions.

You don't trust the leaders and you disagree with the excessive/controlling rules? Why are you sending your daughter anywhere with these people?

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

But if you do it, you have to do it knowing that the phone could get confiscated because they warned you.  So I wouldn't cry foul at that point since you signed your child up.  I wouldn't agree with the legalism behind the rule but I wouldn't expose my child to that kind of legalism either.  

[Guest]

But if you do it, you have to do it knowing that the phone could get confiscated because they warned you. So I wouldn't cry foul at that point since you signed your child up. I wouldn't agree with the legalism behind the rule but I wouldn't expose my child to that kind of legalism either.

I agree and dd has been informed and warned.

[MomatHWTK]

A few more facts--

-The reason for the rule is because they want kids engaged and not playing on phones. I get that. I take issue with confiscating property. My dd has been told to leave her phone in her purse unless she is in a bathroom stall.

-This activity has a lot of unnecessary rules. No PDA. Modest dress only (it is March??). I know the people in charge and I'm sure they will not make an exception. They love their rules! It is also because I know the leaders that I want my dd to have a way to contact me without them.

 

Eta-at this activity last year, the adults told kids they needed a cell phone to try to trick them into showing that they had one. Adults acting like idiots piss me off

If I don't like the teachers, the system or the rules, I don't let the kids participate. 

[abacus2]

I would absolutely break this rule without a moment's hesitation. A rule that phones be put away the entire time is fine, but a rule that a child cannot have a phone on their person is absurd. It would be like having an activity where jewelry is unsafe, but instead of making a rule against wearing jewelry during the activity, they make a rule that says no jewelry can be in the building even inside a purse that will be sitting on a shelf during the activity.

[Guest]

To all the people saying "don't participate", I get it, that is really easy advice. But, in a medium size town, you get what you get. If I waited for perfect activities, my kids would never leave the house!

[Pawz4me]

I'm always suspicious of rules like that.  I can't help but wonder if those in charge just want to avoid the possibility of being video taped if something weird occurred.

[fairfarmhand]

To all the people saying "don't participate", I get it, that is really easy advice. But, in a medium size town, you get what you get. If I waited for perfect activities, my kids would never leave the house!

 

Yeah, I get it. Many homeschooling families also fall into a weird parenting paradigm. In fact, if I hadn't had my oldest, I probably would've been much more like that than I am. She taught me so much about adjusting my expectations to the child.

[albeto.]

In general, the leaders and I have very different parenting styles. I believe a 12yo young woman has the right to make some decisions for herself (feeling comfortable in a situation, picking her own clothing) that these women do not. These women parent with rules, lots of rules. I do not.

 

I'd have no problem sending my dd with the phone. I'd chalk it up the life lesson called How To Play The Game. Sometimes the people who run the game are incompetent, but for whatever reason, they're in charge and we are not. Raging against the machine only hurts our throats and often gets us tossed to the back of the line. If your goal is to be heard, then it's an awesome method. If your goal is to enjoy the game, it's not so effective. 

 

 

Lemme guess. This is a vacation bible school or church day camp or something, but they've got the kids and that's where the fun is?

[dirty ethel rackham]

A few more facts--

-The reason for the rule is because they want kids engaged and not playing on phones. I get that. I take issue with confiscating property. My dd has been told to leave her phone in her purse unless she is in a bathroom stall.

-This activity has a lot of unnecessary rules. No PDA. Modest dress only (it is March??). I know the people in charge and I'm sure they will not make an exception. They love their rules! It is also because I know the leaders that I want my dd to have a way to contact me without them.

 

Eta-at this activity last year, the adults told kids they needed a cell phone to try to trick them into showing that they had one. Adults acting like idiots piss me off

Ugghh.  This kind of attitude would have me running for the hills.  But, if it was an activity that would otherwise be beneficial, I would just break the rule and tell dd that the phone must be invisible. 

[Ellie]

My 12dd is going to be involved in a week long, all day, drop off homeschool activity. The rule is that tge participants can't bring cell phones and anyone caught with a cell phone will have it taken away.

 

I intend to have my dd take her phone and keep it in her purse. I don't know most of the people there and if she needs me to come get her or bring her something, I want her to have the ability to do that without asking permission.

 

Am I wrong to break this rule?

 

Yes, you are wrong to break this rule.

 

If you feel strongly about it, remembering that millions of children managed to survive all sorts of group situations without such a thing as cell phones, then you should talk to TPTB to clarify the issue.

[TammyS]

You might try to look at it from the organizer's POV.  I've been the organizer of a number of things for teens and cell phones are a CONSTANT problem.  It is, without fail, the #1 issue.  Kids spend the whole time texting, surfing the web, whatever.  In more active things, kids take pics of the activity and post them online, then we get nasty emails from OTHER kid's parents about "I never gave permission for pictures of my kids to be posted online".....I once had a girl say she was going to the bathroom (this girl was 16), she never came back!  She had called her boyfriend to come pick her up!  Can you imagine my panic when this girl disappeared?

 

And every.single.solitary. parent sends their kid with a cell phone "in case of emergencies".  Oh honestly. 

 

You don't respect the rules and you clearly don't respect the people running it.  It's not fair to them to send your kid at all.

[AMJ]

My 12dd is going to be involved in a week long, all day, drop off homeschool activity. The rule is that tge participants can't bring cell phones and anyone caught with a cell phone will have it taken away.

 

I intend to have my dd take her phone and keep it in her purse. I don't know most of the people there and if she needs me to come get her or bring her something, I want her to have the ability to do that without asking permission.

 

Am I wrong to break this rule?

 

I find such a ban (on even having the phone at all) unreasonable, and I, for one, wouldn't agree to it.  Not just what happens if she needs to reach me quickly -- what happens if I don't show up on time?  How is she to try to contact me, or anyone else?  Accidents do happen, and they can prevent people from being where they planned to be.  One careless driver can cause a collision that can have a parent unconcious and unable to be there or to call to say they can't get there.  She needs to be able to call you to find out if there's a delay, or to call someone else if you can't be reached.

 

I would insist she be allowed to have it on the premises and in her possession, with the understanding that she not use it during the activity.  This is a matter regarding her safety and welfare outside of the times of the activity, when not having such a line of communication could be quite detrimental.  If needed I would invent a family emergency or medical/counseling/child tracking need to have the ability to check in with her throughout every day (this can be most discreetly and unobtrusively done by allowing her to simply carry the phone).

 

This place holding the activity really needs to revisit their policy. 

[AMJ]

You might try to look at it from the organizer's POV.  I've been the organizer of a number of things for teens and cell phones are a CONSTANT problem.  It is, without fail, the #1 issue.  Kids spend the whole time texting, surfing the web, whatever.  In more active things, kids take pics of the activity and post them online, then we get nasty emails from OTHER kid's parents about "I never gave permission for pictures of my kids to be posted online".....I once had a girl say she was going to the bathroom (this girl was 16), she never came back!  She had called her boyfriend to come pick her up!  Can you imagine my panic when this girl disappeared?

 

And every.single.solitary. parent sends their kid with a cell phone "in case of emergencies".  Oh honestly. 

 

You don't respect the rules and you clearly don't respect the people running it.  It's not fair to them to send your kid at all.

 

I agree that the rules must be followed.  But I will still insist on my kid having a line of communication for the time outside of the activity.  There is often a gap between the timeframe of the activities and being in a parent's custody, and that is precisely when I feel my kids need such lines of communication the most.