Friends defending smoking

[PrairieSong]

Recently an old friend called to tell me about a mutual friend's husband's death from cancer. These mutual friends moved away several years ago and I hadn't been in close contact, so I appreciated the call.

 

In the course of our conversation she brought up the fact that despite decades of smoking she is in excellent health, good heart and lungs, blood pressure, she goes to the gym, etc. She went on and ON about it so finally I said..sounds like you dodged a bullet.

 

I traveled to the funeral and the smoker friend was there with her dh who also smokes. After the lunch we were leaving and they were in their truck smoking. We stopped to say goodbye and again she brought up how she is so healthy blah blah and that she would smoke until she died. But then one of the friends I came with said, "That's what my husband did. He smoked until he died." (He had serious smoking related health issues and died probably yrs earlier because of it.) The smoking husband said he had been visiting the dying friend who asked him..should I smoke now? And the guy said..why not? Die happy. My friend whose husband had died from smoking related issues almost lost it then, but managed to contain herself until we got into our own car.

 

I didn't really say anything. But I remembered when I used to see this couple more (they lived in our town..now they live 30 min away) they talked a lot about smoking then too..even though I never heard anyone else give them grief about it.

 

Would you just quietly listen to people talking about how they like smoking and it's not that bad for you? Or would you say something? If so, what? Both of the friends I traveled with are ex-smokers and I think the conversation bothered them even more. I also thought of my two friends who have COPD. I thought of my aunt who had emphysema, was on oxygen, had a lung transplant, and then died of cancer. So sad. WWYD?

[bettyandbob]

It sounds like, in a culture where less and less people smoke, she feels defensive about her own habit and wants to go on the offensive to say it's OK for her at least. 

 

I would just "uh huh" and move away or change the topic as soon as possible--if I still wanted to interact. 

[Amy in NH]

Let it, and them, go.

[kiana]

Nothing you can say is going to change her mind. It's just going to make her feel assaulted and surrounded. I tend to just pass the bean dip in these situations.

[PrairieSong]

Yeah...you guys are right. It was just so weird. Nobody else brought up smoking. They did. On the phone with me she went on about it for several minutes.

 

Bean dip sounds good. :-)

[Word Nerd]

I would mind my own business. I don't mean to sound flip, but she already knows the risks and has chosen to keep smoking anyway. Correcting her would be pointless.

[marbel]

Depending on the relationship, I might be inclined to ask them "Have you ever noticed that you talk about smoking a lot?  Why do you feel you need to defend your smoking?"

 

It just sounds like they are trying to convince themselves that they will be OK despite all the evidence that smoking is harmful.  Of course there are people who smoke for a lifetime but don't die of smoking-related causes.  But those are probably in the minority. My mother smoked from about age 15 till about 60, and lived to be 85 years old; she didn't have cancer, emphysema, or COPD, but her doctor said smoking definitely contributed to the heart problems that ultimately killed her.  

 

I would also tell the people that it's rather cruel and thoughtless of them to talk about their enjoyment of smoking around people who have lost loved ones to smoking-related illnesses.   I'd probably not spend much time around them.  You're not going to change their minds.

 

ETA: I got interrupted 3 times while typing this, and found others have said (with fewer words) the same things.  :001_smile:

[PrairieSong]

I would mind my own business.

Word Nerd, I was minding my own business. They were the ones who brought it up and went on and on about. Just wondered what others' responses might be.

 

ETA: I see you edited your response while I was typing mine. I wasn't thinkng of correcting her or telling her the risks which she already has heard, but saying something more along the lines of what marbel mentioned...asking them if they realize how much they bring up the topic.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would not say anything.  They know what they are saying is absolute bull crap and if not they are kidding themselves or stupid.  Then again, it is true some people smoke forever and don't die young.  HOWEVER, if they claim they have no negative side affects from it, they are lying or kidding themselves.

 

This is a hot button issue for me.  I literally am not willing to have a friend who smokes.  I don't mean an on-line friend or someone I meet up with once every five years, but anyone I'd want to see on a regular basis.  Nope that is not going to work.  I feel like choking and gasping if I'm around smoke.  I had a mother who smoked and I have no doubts it contributed to her dying at 49.  My sister smokes and has 1000 health problems.  I do not visit her.  Have not seen her in years.  My grandfather died from emphyzima.  Cigarettes make me angry and I would like to go back in time and strangle anyone responsible for inventing them. 

 

If it is eating you up inside you could say something like, "Yeah keep telling yourself that."  Or "Saying so won't make it so." 

 

 

[Joanne]

Honestly, they sound silly. I'd say "cray cray" but some posters here don't like the term. ;)

Truly WHO talks about smoking not being bad for you, repeatedly?

It's a smelly, stupid habit. Anyone who started smoking after 1970 made a stupid choice.

 

Anyone who smokes and has a brain knows it is bad for you. Defense of it is dumb. And being "healthy" in spite of it is due to genetics rather than smoking being "ok", "benign" or "neutral" in terms of health.

 

I'd avoid these people because they are ignorant and ain't nobody got time for that.

 

Joanne, former 1.5 pack a day of Marlboro red and whose mother died of smoking-induced lung cancer

[elegantlion]

As a former smoker, I'd let it go. They may be trying to justify the habit to themselves. My neighbor died from lung cancer, smoked until the day she died. Her dh smokes, they both smoked in the house, cannot visit the house as you can't breathe. Quitting smoking is hard. My ex has started and stopped off and on for years, he's smoking again. He had to have a physical a few years ago and all of his bloodwork came back normal, even with a stress test. It probably didn't hurt that he had a physical job, but still, he knows better. People who smoke know how bad it is for them, I would not try to argue with someone defending the habit. 

[hornblower]

People make all sorts of crappy healthy decisions.  Just start talking about bmi & health & you'll get a chorus of but, but, but....

would I say something? Depends who it was - a casual acquaintance I wouldn't bother but with a friend, I tend to be pretty much "let's stick to the data & stop making up fairy tales to make ourselves feel better" & I'd probably encourage them to quit/change.

[trulycrabby]

If they brought it up, and it bothered you, then I would just smile, say goodbye, wave, and walk away.

[Tammyla]

It's hard to listen to non-stop bs (pardon me) and say nothing, but what can you do.  It sounds like a defensive in-your-face before you ask me not to smoke here mechanism.  I always just try to slip away, but if not possible...I will ask if they could smoke later or somewhere else.  (Inside a car or inside without the windows open... is just indescribably miserable for me.)

 

Sadly, my own mother is very much like this...After decades of smoking, she now has a high BP, a scary smokers cough, COPD and it breaks my heart to see her so addicted to something that is so horrible.  She was for many, many years very healthy despite smoking, but it isn't that way anymore.  Smoking can be a slow killer, my mom is in her 60s btw. 

[Tsuga]

Aside from insisting that nobody smoke in our home or within breathing distance of a door or window, I'd let it go. Obviously they feel the need to justify it. Too bad.

 

If they demand a response, "It sounds like you feel very strongly about it. Hey, on another note, did you see that article about the local art project that is attracting kids from all different backgrounds? How great is that?"

[Lady Florida.]

It's not possible to live in a modern country and not know how bad smoking is. They know. Their defense of it is merely an attempt to justify something they know is unhealthy.

 

As a former smoker, I say let it go. You will not convince them to quit. It's rare that a non-smoker (whether former smoker or someone who never smoked) convinces a smoker to quit. Often it causes them to dig their heels in (as it often did with me). 

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

Truly WHO talks about smoking not being bad for you, repeatedly?

 

Someone who either does not want to quit, doesn't think they can, or is scared that smoking will cause them a slow painful death.

 

Those are my guesses.  But yeah I am assuming that most people know the dangers.  They show very scary and nasty commercials about smoking here.  I usually have to change the channel because they are so awful.  

[Tsuga]

 

Smoking *is* great. It feel WONDERFUL.

 

Let's not all us former smokers remind ourselves of the short-term positive effects of the drug how about. :)

[Catwoman]

Chances are excellent that the woman has not only heard all about the health risks of smoking, but that she has even tried to quit on more than one occasion but failed.

 

Rather than admit that she can't quit, she may be defensive about how smoking is fine for her.

 

I would only say something to her if she started smoking around me. Otherwise, I would figure it is her life and her decision.

[PrairieSong]

It's not possible to live in a modern country and not know how bad smoking is. They know. Their defense of it is merely an attempt to justify something they know is unhealthy.

 

As a former smoker, I say let it go. You will not convince them to quit. It's rare that a non-smoker (whether former smoker or someone who never smoked) convinces a smoker to quit. Often it causes them to dig their heels in (as it often did with me).

I know better than to try to convince her or her dh to quit. That has to be up to them. The thing is...she digs in her heels before anyone else even mentions the topic. She goes on the offensive. If I say anything (if it happens again) it will be something like, "You know, every time we talk, you bring up smoking." Then see what she says.

[PrairieSong]

Smoking *is* great. It feel WONDERFUL. I have not had a cigarette in nine years and I still sit around and just imagine smoking some times

That kind of made me shudder...and made me very glad I never tried smoking.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I know better than to try to convince her or her dh to quit. That has to be up to them. The thing is...she digs in her heels before anyone else even mentions the topic. She goes on the offensive. If I say anything (if it happens again) it will be something like, "You know, every time we talk, you bring up smoking." Then see what she says.

 

Or maybe say, "Yeah, but either way smoking stinks like hell.  You can't deny that part."

 

She can deny it because her smeller doesn't work right anymore.

 

I know I'm terrible, but I hate smoking.  A lot...  What I hate most is that it's not a solitary activity.  Smokers contribute to problems in anyone around them.  All the talk about smoker's rights and how can we be so mean and not let them smoke..blah blah.  Wow.  You know, I saw a commercial for e-cigarettes that was all glory glory take back your rights?  I can't believe they can show that on TV.  Disgusting.

[Danestress]

I know better than to try to convince her or her dh to quit. That has to be up to them. The thing is...she digs in her heels before anyone else even mentions the topic. She goes on the offensive. If I say anything (if it happens again) it will be something like, "You know, every time we talk, you bring up smoking." Then see what she says.

 

If it's really just that - that it is tedious to hear her go on and on about something, I would hesitate to say anything.  I would feel differently if she were talking that way in front of my kids, or if I saw her very frequently, but since it doesn't sound like that, I would try to just let it pass and to change the subject.  I have family members and friends who just seem to need to spout about whatever their "issue" is - politics, guns, smoking, diet etc.  Even if they are flat wrong, I try to remind myself that I don't need to comment on every subject.  Sometimes we just have to let it go, listen politely to the person we are talking to, and then move on.  

 

I have a friend who will say, "I am glad you enjoy that" when someone starts in about how they never eat sugar or how drinking green smoothies has changed their lives, or how running intervals is THE way to be healthy.  She's old, she's not going to start a bikini body work out or start drinking kale smoothies, and she is very, very polite.  I try to channel her in such situations.  

[elegantlion]

How about smoking at the funeral? I've been to one of those, granted it was held in a bar (which was closed at the time), but still. come on people, at least wait 20 minutes to light up. I could only laugh because it was fitting for the person that died. 

[PrairieSong]

How about smoking at the funeral? I've been to one of those, granted it was held in a bar (which was closed at the time), but still. come on people, at least wait 20 minutes to light up. I could only laugh because it was fitting for the person that died.

A funeral in a bar?? Wow never been to one of those. At least at the one I attended, the smokers went outside to light up.

[PrairieSong]

You know, I've been thinking more about this. The friend who died was only in his fifties and lived just a short time after his Stage IV cancer was diagnosed. They never found the source of it because it was too far gone. He, too, was a heavy smoker for decades. The friend who told him to light up and die happy was his best friend. They talked every single day.

 

The heavy smoking could have caused or at least contributed to his cancer. I guess we will never know. It's painful to lose a friend..and even more painful and frightening to think that maybe he died because of a habit...something that you yourself do every day. He won't see his children get married. He won't see his grandkids.

 

Maybe it's just easier to go on the offensive and tell yourself it's not that bad.

[annandatje]

She is probably going on the offensive because well-meaning people have nagged her about smoking, and she is attempting to nip the nagging in the bud.  I'd ignore it.

[LucyStoner]

People rationalize or even lie to themselves about their bad habits. But all we can do is work to be honest with ourselves about our bad habits and resolve them. It all boils down to the fact the every person has exactly one person they can control or change. Just the one, ourselves.

[wintermom]

I dislike the smell and effects of cigarette smoke so much that I avoid going close to people while they smoke. I wouldn't have gone near her while she was smoking in her vehicle - I would have simply waved good-bye from a distance and avoided going over to the truck.  

 

She may want to delude herself that it's not effecting her health, but I don't have to breathe in the fumes. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

How about smoking at the funeral? I've been to one of those, granted it was held in a bar (which was closed at the time), but still. come on people, at least wait 20 minutes to light up. I could only laugh because it was fitting for the person that died. 

 

Oh man...

 

Well things have changed quite a bit.  My mother smoked in her hospital bed after giving birth to me.  Thinking back the only place I recall there was no smoking in public was grocery stores.  Otherwise it was everywhere.  Now I rarely see smokers because it isn't allowed anywhere.  It's awesome. 

 

I worked at McDs as a teen.  At that point they were transitioning to non smoking, but prior it wasn't uncommon to have some a-hole blowing smoke at me while he was ordering.  Yuck. 

[Stacia]

More info on the dangers of smoking re: third-hand smoke:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-third-hand-smoke/

 

(Couldn't find the original article I was thinking of, but this covers similar info. Basically, surfaces where smoking has taken place can be contaminated for years, even if cleaned. Think fabrics on furniture, drywall, etc....)

[Lisbeth]

I must be massively sheltered, because I know no one well who smokes. I don't see how a friendship with a smoker would work, because I refuse to be around it, even third hand. I felt this way even before I joined the LDS Church.

I would say to her, "We will never agree about this subject, so let's talk about something else."

[Trish]

Only people who don't eat junk food can criticize smokers, right?

 

Ironic that this is coming up now when today's main health headline is "Most of Cancer is Bad Luck."

 

 

[PrairieSong]

Only people who don't eat junk food can criticize smokers, right?

 

Ironic that this is coming up now when today's main health headline is "Most of Cancer is Bad Luck."

I saw that article pop up. Are they trying to say that smoking doesn't increase cancer risk? Because there seems to be a lot of evidence to the contrary.

[LucyStoner]

Oh man...

 

Well things have changed quite a bit. My mother smoked in her hospital bed after giving birth to me. Thinking back the only place I recall there was no smoking in public was grocery stores. Otherwise it was everywhere. Now I rarely see smokers because it isn't allowed anywhere. It's awesome.

 

I worked at McDs as a teen. At that point they were transitioning to non smoking, but prior it wasn't uncommon to have some a-hole blowing smoke at me while he was ordering. Yuck.

When we moved to Kentucky we were totally bowled over that they allowed smoking in the grocery stores. Who wants that on their produce!? Insane. That was in 1990 to boot so not all that long ago. I am sure it's changed now.

[fraidycat]

When we moved to Kentucky we were totally bowled over that they allowed smoking in the grocery stores. Who wants that on their produce!? Insane. That was in 1990 to boot so not all that long ago. I am sure it's changed now.

I'd take some tobacco smoke over what is *actually* in/on most conventional produce.

 

But, then again, I think smoking gets blamed more than it's fair share for death and disease. It's an easier target than looking at the real/bigger problem. Food, factory farming, synthetic chemical glop in everything we touch/breathe/use from furniture, building materials, food, medication, soap, beauty products, vehicles we fuel and drive, even the food we eat and the water we drink.

[AimeeM]

Not your circus; not your monkeys.

 

 

[flyingiguana]

Yeah, my next door neighbor does the same thing.  Tells me smoking isn't bad for her.  Tells me her dr says it's not bad for her.  Usually in the same conversation where she's telling me about her latest cancer treatment.

 

She's recovering from her 2nd bout of cancer. 

 

However her longtime boyfriend, who's active, eats well, and doesn't smoke, had a big heart attack recently.  And right after that, she stopped smoking IN the house.  She only smokes out in the yard now.  So I suspect she knows the smoking is bad for him and may have even caused the heart attack in the first place.

 

For a lot of people, it's really hard to quit.  (There are a few people who can just walk away from the habit, but most can't.)  Maybe it's a lot easier to make up stories than to beat yourself up for a thing you can't change.

 

I don't say anything to my neighbor.  What could I possibly say that society or doctors haven't already said to her?

[flyingiguana]

I saw that article pop up. Are they trying to say that smoking doesn't increase cancer risk? Because there seems to be a lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

They didn't look at all forms of cancer -- just those that were easy to study in this context.  So I think the "most" in the headline is misleading.

[SparklyUnicorn]

When we moved to Kentucky we were totally bowled over that they allowed smoking in the grocery stores. Who wants that on their produce!? Insane. That was in 1990 to boot so not all that long ago. I am sure it's changed now.

 

I don't recall smoking being allowed in movie theaters.  When I went to Germany (maybe 17 years ago) we went to a movie theater and people were smoking in the theater.  Yuck!  That's probably one of my least favorite things about Germany.  Everything is pretty clean wherever you go, but everything also stinks like cigarettes.  It's awful.  Little by little it is being limited, but it has not been limited enough.  And a lot of people ignore the laws. 

[Lanny]

Your friend who says she is a smoker and very healthy, IMHO is ignorant about the facts. If she wants to believe that, that is her right.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I saw "bowled over" and thought about smoking in bowling allies. I'm glad more and more have banned that or limited it to a bar area.

 

Smoking is not allowed in bars here either.  So no smoking in bowling alleys.  But then apparently as a group smokers are an obnoxious self centered bunch.  (Not all, but many.)  So what do people do?  They stand in front of the door and smoke.  So you get the smoke wafting into the place.  You must endure the stench walking in and out.  So now it's also a law that one must stand 25 feet away from a door to smoke.  I mean seriously, common sense and manners have to be legislated?!  Yep..it does.

 

I think smokers don't realize what it smells like to those who don't smoke.  Growing up with a mother who smoked a lot I smelled like smoke of course.  I remember doctors asking me if I smoked as a kid.  I had no clue what in heck they were talking about.  Well, because I smelled like smoke.  I didn't realize it because my senses were dulled to it because I was around it constantly.  Now that I haven't smelled it much in many years I literally feel like gasping when I'm near it.  A couple of weeks ago I walked past someone who was smoking.  I had my 9 year old with me.  As I'm getting closer I held my breath so I could avoid the panicky gasping feeling I get.  After I was past the person my 9 year old says to me, "Every time I walk past a smoker I hold my breath."  LOL..he does the same thing!

[marbel]

I don't recall smoking being allowed in movie theaters.  When I went to Germany (maybe 17 years ago) we went to a movie theater and people were smoking in the theater.  Yuck!  That's probably one of my least favorite things about Germany.  Everything is pretty clean wherever you go, but everything also stinks like cigarettes.  It's awful.  Little by little it is being limited, but it has not been limited enough.  And a lot of people ignore the laws. 

 

In 2005 we had a long vacation in the UK.  I have vivid memories of spending a morning in a laundromat in Edinburgh (while my family visited the castle), and was stunned to see people smoking in the laundromat.  I guess they are around smoke so much they don't  notice the smell in their clothing.   Thanks for making my clean clothes stink, folks!

[BigMamaBird]

No. Smoking *is* great. It feel WONDERFUL. I have not had a cigarette in nine years and I still sit around and just imagine smoking some times.

 

My Dad hasn't smoked in over 30 years and he says that all it would take for him to start smoking like a chimney again is one cigarette.  He's a very intellegent man and knows all the health risks and he still craves them after all these years despite the dangers.  

 

From what I hear it's ridiculously hard for smokers to ever completely shake the desire to smoke.  I'm truly thankful that all my loved ones have quit.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

In 2005 we had a long vacation in the UK.  I have vivid memories of spending a morning in a laundromat in Edinburgh (while my family visited the castle), and was stunned to see people smoking in the laundromat.  I guess they are around smoke so much they don't  notice the smell in their clothing.   Thanks for making my clean clothes stink, folks!

 

Yuck!

 

In a few more remote areas in Germany people sit at communal tables in restaurants.  That was a surprise to me.  But the worst part is some jerk lighting up when you are trying to eat your food.

[Firefly]

Only people who don't eat junk food can criticize smokers, right?

 

 

No, I don't eat junk food but that's beside the point.  Other people's junk food eating doesn't effect my health, and does not get all over my clothes and hair.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

No, I don't eat junk food but that's beside the point.  Other people's junk food eating doesn't effect my health, and does not get all over my clothes and hair.  

 

I totally agree.  It's absolutely not comparable.  If someone sits next to me and downs a bag of chips it is all on him.  If someone sits next to me and smokes, I have to smell it and breath it and it could affect my health.

 

There is absolutely no reasonable argument about allowing smoking in public places.

[Firefly]

Smoking is not allowed in bars here either.  So no smoking in bowling alleys.  But then apparently as a group smokers are an obnoxious self centered bunch.  (Not all, but many.)  So what do people do?  They stand in front of the door and smoke.  So you get the smoke wafting into the place.  You must endure the stench walking in and out.  So now it's also a law that one must stand 25 feet away from a door to smoke.  I mean seriously, common sense and manners have to be legislated?!  Yep..it does.

 

I think smokers don't realize what it smells like to those who don't smoke.  Growing up with a mother who smoked a lot I smelled like smoke of course.  I remember doctors asking me if I smoked as a kid.  I had no clue what in heck they were talking about.  Well, because I smelled like smoke.  I didn't realize it because my senses were dulled to it because I was around it constantly.  Now that I haven't smelled it much in many years I literally feel like gasping when I'm near it.  A couple of weeks ago I walked past someone who was smoking.  I had my 9 year old with me.  As I'm getting closer I held my breath so I could avoid the panicky gasping feeling I get.  After I was past the person my 9 year old says to me, "Every time I walk past a smoker I hold my breath."  LOL..he does the same thing!

 

The smoking outside the entrance of a building thing is a huge pet peeve of mine.  Seriously, I think I'd prefer they just did a poo there at the entrance instead; at least I can step around that.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm surprised that anyone around here smokes because cigarettes are so incredibly expensive.  At the very least it must cut down on the number of cigarettes they smoke.  My mother at the worst of her smoking would smoke 3 packs a day.  Sometimes she'd light up a second before finishing the first because she forgot she had one going.  (I mean really is it no wonder I despise smoking so much?)  At that rate it would cost her about $30 a day to smoke here.

 

 

[Little Nyssa]

Never mind smoking for a minute. Saying things at a funeral that upset the grieving widow so that she can barely keep it together is the issue. Such people need to be smacked. I would have had a hard time not saying Are you crazy?