Tips to Help DH and I Bicker Less This Christmas?

[wendyroo]

We are very, very fortunate.  DH has some vacation time left, plus a generous holiday schedule, which means that his last day of work this year is the 17th, and he doesn't go back until the 5th of January.

 

We are very lucky...but at the same time, that is a lot of togetherness.   :willy_nilly:

 

DH and I do really, really well with 2 and 3 day weekends.  We are only slightly getting on each other's nerves by the end of a week of camping with three little kids.  But, from experience, I know that by the end of the second week we will have devolved to a point of bickering over just about anything and everything.

 

Part of it is that we will be at my parents' house for part of the time which riles the kids and adds social expectations that we don't have at home (it is a wonderful time overall, though, and neither of us would want to miss it).  Part of it is just our stage of life; the kids are still little and require a lot of care which means a "vacation" is often more work than the normal day to day.  

 

A huge part of it is our personalities.  In some ways we are very, very similar; we are both stubborn, analytical engineers.  We have bickered over whether a shirt was teal or green and over whether the Christmas tree was leaning more one day than the day before...there was a level and protractor involved in our "discussion".  

 

In other ways we are exact opposites.  I run a tight ship when DH is at work; there are routines and chores and certain orders things get done in to make sure everyone's needs are met.  DH is a more loosey goosey kind of guy; his attitude is that, especially during vacation, we should put off all but the most critical chores.  To his credit, he does spend a lot of vacation time playing with the kids, but in the end, I either scurry around doing more than my normal work load and resenting that he is just playing and making messes or I give in and play along with them, and watch in mounting despair as all the household chores pile up waiting to overwhelm me after DH goes back to work.

 

This will be our 11th Christmas together and our 6th with kids.  I have seen the pattern repeat every year, and I am looking for concrete suggestions for how to head it off at that pass this year.

 

Thanks,

Wendy

 

 

 

 

[Snickerdoodle]

I think the thing is that when your husband is on vacation, he is out of his office, but when you are on vacation (weekend, holidays), you have *more* people in your "office" and what's more, the schedule is thrown off which creates more work during and after.

 

 

[lionfamily1999]

You know those "count your blessings" things that come up around Thanksgiving?  Try to doing that every night.  Come up with at least three things you were happy about or grateful for that day, write them down, and put them somewhere you will see them first thing the next morning.  Throughout the day, when you start to get resentful, take a moment to review and try to be grateful.  When he's being all loosey goosey, does he require that you do the same?  If he doesn't, then do your thing and while you're doing it don't mutter that he isn't doing it.

 

The "hill to die on" idea is a good one to remember too.  Is the color of a shirt a hill worth dying on?

 

Also, when you do argue about things, if you just *have* to find out who is right, treat it more like a game and less like a throw-down.  If you can laugh when you're wrong, or do a touch-down dance when you're right (so he can have a good laugh too) that may take some of the sting out of it.

 

Dh and I used to do that too.  We still argue over stupid things, but now we can laugh about it.  See, one day the argument got out of hand and he said (not seriously, mind you, there was no real threat here), "Don't make me punch you in the face."  I can't remember what it was we had watched that day where someone said that, but this was his attempt at levity.  In any case, my feathers were ruffled.  I started to get all self-righteous and instead I responded, "I know that when you say that, you really mean I love you."  For some reason that set us both off into gales of laughter and ever since then "Don't make me punch you in the face" has become something like our 'safe phrase.'  When things are getting a little too heated or somebody's bad mood is getting to be too much, or one of us is getting too sensitive, that's what we pull out.

 

I guess, my best advice would be to add levity.  If you can laugh, you'll be fine.  Decide if an argument is worth winning, is this the hill you want to die on?  And make sure you spend some time focusing on what is good, redirect yourself to that.  :)  Hope this helps.

 

Oh, and do the chores if it makes you happy!

[EmilyGF]

My hubby has a flexible schedule, but a lot of work to do at weird times!

 

When he's home, I let him set the tone. If a mess doesn't bother him, I don't pick it up. This works because the level of cleanliness he wants is lower than the level of cleanliness I want. We generally throw out our schedule (if he's home for a few days) or just do work in the morning.

 

We go on lots of outings - museums, ice skating, open air fairs. He gets a little antsy if he stays home all day, and it makes life more exciting. Do you have any museum memberships?

 

I have him help me have the children do chores after dinner each night. Some families have the rule that no one leaves the kitchen after dinner until it is clean. That wouldn't work for us, but no one starting Settlers of Catan until it is clean does.

 

My husband does not take out our kids as a group by himself. It runs against his family culture, and I haven't made any headway there. What he does do is take out kids by themselves one at a time. That can be really special and the kids look forward to their monthly time out with Dad. Some things they have done recently: all day yo-yo competition, launch party for the Orion, breakfast out, etc. 

 

Also, remember that being home with three kids isn't restful, at least it isn't for my hubby. I'm used to it, but he isn't, so it is really stressful for him. Maybe you can come up with ways together to make it better for both of you.

[TammyinTN]

When I wake up I decide what kinda day I'm gonna have...and then I don't let anything or anyone derail me.   I've found that looking for all my mates positive qualities really helps keep me on the right path.  He loves to cook breakfast...not so good at clean up...I do that.  He likes doing the laundry...not so good at folding, I do that part.   I got away from the "me" syndrome and decided no matter what to be a strong team....I wish I had been this way earlier in our marriage..we wouldn't have had so many fuss fest.  

[marbel]

Do you and he acknowledge the problem you have?   My husband and I don't have this exact problem but we have our issues.  Even after 20 years together we still sometimes fail to communicate well.

 

Anyway, if you haven't already, how about sitting down with him after the kids are in bed - maybe glass of wine in hand, in other words, relaxed atmosphere - and talk it over.  Tell him you are excited about the holidays and all his time off but that there is a part you are not feeling such happy anticipation about.  Give him concrete examples of the issues you see.  Since you are both engineers, you know not to say "you always..." or "you never..." because he will have a counterexample for you and the conversation will devolve from there.  (I am married to an engineer.)

 

As an example you could talk about how much fun it is to have him around but that the reality is at some point there are chores that can't be ignored.  So tell him that when you've reached your threshold for dirty dishes or piles of laundry, you will need his help to do a little maintenance.  Maybe having Dad help out will be a novelty and a game for the kids and they'll help too, getting it done all the faster. 

 

Can you also build in some time so you can do something alone while he is home with the kids?  When my kids were little I longed for an hour or two in a cafe or even the library.  Maybe that is not your issue but sometimes a little time away is very helpful.

 

Hope something in there sparked an idea.  If not, feel free to ignore.  And, :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

ETA: (Inspired by Tammy's post above):  Yes, look at his positive qualities and the blessing of having a husband who wants to be involved with his kids.  Some don't!  When I get itchy about my husband I remind myself why I married him.  And then I wonder how often he has to remind himself why he married me. :001_rolleyes:   That helps me shape up my attitude!

[Aiden]

About the bickering over things like color names and tree leanings, just decide that you'd rather be happy than be right, and let the small things go.

 

For things that will fester and build up and cause more resentment later (like a pile of chores waiting for you after he goes back to work), would he be responsive if you explained the problem to him at the beginning? The first day he's off work, after breakfast, or while the kids are napping, or in the evening after they've gone to bed, just sit down with him and explain that you anticipate that this will be a problem, and you'd like to be proactive in solving it. (I know my engineer husband appreciates that phrasing, maybe you and your husband do as well?) Maybe he'd be willing to help make sure that all the needed maintenance chores--not just the "put out the fires" chores--get done once he understands the backlog that is created when it doesn't get done, and the resentment that it causes.

 

I know I'm happy when my husband plays with our daughter on weekends, freeing me up to do my normal stuff without a tagalong or having to dodge requests to stop cleaning and start playing with her. So maybe a good bit of his responsibilities could be entertaining the kids--even taking them outside--so you can get the household work done more quickly and peacefully? (Or even if you don't talk to him about it, maybe you could reframe the situation in your own mind to "He's helping by taking care of the kids so I can focus on getting this done quickly.")

[Amy Jo]

Don't participate in arguments. Walk away. Pray for a spirit of peace, perhaps memorize a psalm so you have good thoughts to meditate on.

 

Around here it works best when everyone has their area. I'm in charge of the kids for example but DH is in charge of vehicles.

 

Don't fall prey to resentment. I know, oh I know, how hard that is. It is a trap to sap your enjoyment. (I fall into it too often.)

 

For DH and I, alone time is also important. The best thing we can do when we get snippy with each other is get a sitter and leave the house. Sit down for a meal where we don't have to cook, clean, or corral kids.

 

And be thankful for your husband. Remind your self of his good points when he is driving you crazy. :)

[Bambam]

I hear you. Two engineers here too - one that has a schedule/routine and sees much value in that (especially for the kids) and the other who would eat only when he is hungry and thinks about it and would only do laundry when there was *nothing* left to wear. 

 

Can you both sit down and make a list of critical-must-do tasks? Now, these can be done in a fun way with dad around - maybe making an assembly line of the laundry (think pass the bucket of water to toss on the fire to get the clothes in the washer, hot-potato to get them in the dryer, and races to get them put away (I fold the t-shirt, child races to put it in the drawer, etc)) Cleaning the kitchen - maybe we get to use 'special' clothes to wipe the counter? Cooking - try to pick things where everyone can have a part (i.e. pizza, eggs/bacon/biscuits/pouring juice/making toast)? If you can agree on a list of basic chores that *must* be done daily so that the load isn't a burden, maybe that will help once the holiday is over. After all, he may be on vacation from his job, but you aren't, so maybe you can share the chores that are must-do. 

 

As for arguing, yes, I agree, try to figure out if the discussion topic is *that* important that it must be won. Some are, but those are few and generally (in our family) typically only concern safety. Sometimes people who like to think need something to think upon. Try to add puns into the conversation (okay this takes thought for me, but maybe it comes easily for others?). Maybe come up with logic questions? Are you both competitive? If so, break out the games - both kid and adult - play games with the kids and when the kids are asleep, play the adult games.

 

And being away from home is stressful. Recognize that. Try to figure out some way to let the other know that you need a break. Plan into your schedule where you take a daily walk with the kids (and maybe without too). A long walk with just family can be refreshing when you are away from home. And the walk is a time to reconnect and explore and just enjoy the solitude.

 

Good luck!

[Chris in VA]

Some thoughts, in random order, from someone married nearly 30 years to her "nearly opposite!"

 

What do YOU think would help you? Here's what helps me.

 

Sometimes I can be better behaved towards someone if I understand them better--In that vein, Myers-Briggs helps me. Realizing someone perceives the world differently and ACCEPTING AND NOT JUDGING the difference is a key for me. You sound, for instance, like more of a J, and he, more of a P.

 

Sometimes it helps me to be award of my own needs--which it sounds like you are--and then SHARE them. Communication can help.

 

Sometimes I need to recognize my triggers and plan a strategy for when I feel them. For example, I have learned to recognize when I am sensorially overwhelmed. It can be as simple as having something on my mind, then having the radio on in the car AND the windshield wipers AND trying to see as I drive. It makes me tense. So I turn off the radio and lessen my input.

 

Sometimes I need to recognize something not very flattering about myself--my need to control, for example. Controlling sounds like it may be an issue for both of you. I say that gently, so pls don't be offended. Letting go of the need to be right is hard work. I recognize my own controlling comes from fear--and I have to trace it back each time to see that. So for example, I do not like repeating circumstances that led to uncomfortable or painful feelings in the past, so I have tried (in the past--getting better now! lol) to control a perceived lack of respect by being more strident in arguing (because, BY GOLLY you are not going to disrespect me like you did that one time, which left me feeling awful! So I'm going to PROVE I"M RIGHT).

 

Helps me to take breaks, let go of being right, recognize and reduce my triggers, and remember I'm human and give my hub and those others that bug the crap out of me the right to be human, too.

 

HTH

[DawnM]

Does your tight ship include having the kids help with chores and cleaning?  I would ask your DH to help enforce the child labor in the house so that you don't get left with all of it.

[Miss Tick]

Speaking as a fellow engineer, can you involve him in this term resolution before the problem presents? Them a multi-prong approach.

 

Explain the tension = not enjoyable for you, pick one or two things like all toys picked up at the end of the day and dishes done, set that as goals.

 

Next prong - "could you please move the laundry?" Small, occasional, specific requests.

 

Lastly, plan some time apart? Trip to the library, grocery, hardware, car wash, etc. Don't feel you need to rush home, spend a few minutes on you.

[happypamama]

1. Talk to your DH. Bring him your concerns, and see if he has any insights.

 

2. Sleep. Make it a priority. Take naps while you're away if need be. Tiredness makes bickering worse.

 

3. Watch the sugar, for you and the kids. Too much sugar plus too little sleep equals disaster in my book.

 

4. Be sure to drink teA regularly this season. Much easier to let little things that would devolve into bickering go when you're not thirsty, no matter how busy life is. :)

[Anne in CA]

Lots of flirting keeps bickering at bay in our house...

[wendyroo]

When he's being all loosey goosey, does he require that you do the same?  

 

No, but his loosey gooseyness seems to make all of my tasks much harder.

 

He excuses the kids from breakfast because he wants to take them outside to play in the snow...Great!!  But, he doesn't have them wash their hands or brush their teeth, so syrup stickiness is spread over the entire mud room and all their snow clothes, and he doesn't have them do their after meal chores, so I have to add those to my load...all because he took a shortcut around the well established 10 minute morning routine that the kids would have automatically followed if he hadn't bypassed it.

 

He plays with the kids with legos and trains and blocks...way more toys than I would allow out all at the same time...and then herds the kids off to do something else without cleaning up the huge mess.

 

He agrees to be in charge of breakfast one morning so I can run errands, but I come home at 9am (two hours after the kids wake) and no one has eaten yet.  DH is playing at his computer, the bigger kids are fighting at their computer (probably partly due to low blood sugar) and the baby (who should be going down for his morning nap soon) hasn't even had his diaper changed yet.

 

None of those are hills to die on.  None of them are insurmountable obstacles when DH is home for a weekend.  However, when he is home for over two weeks, those sorts of issues start to add up.  The kids get used to all fun and no chores.  The messes mount faster than I can clean them up, and that doesn't even take into account the extra messes that are inherent around holidays.  

 

I don't fault DH's intentions.  He wants the holidays to be fun for all of us.  He wants to play, play, play and not worry about teeth getting brushed or naps getting missed or chores left undone "just this once".  But when you have 18 days of just-this-once's in a row, things start to fall apart.  He knows this intellectually; he doesn't like wading through the clutter or dealing with overtired children either, but when the rubber meets the road, that knowledge does not adequately inspire him to stick closer to the routines I have put in place to help avoid those things.

 

Wendy 

[J-rap]

Maybe during that time, keep your critical chores to the kitchen only, and let your husband set the tone for the rest.  (But the kids can always do a quick around-the-house pickup at the end of the day.)

 

Set some time apart for yourself.  It can be at home if you can find a quiet corner, listening to Christmas music with a cup of coffee while reading a book or putting together your to-do list.  :)  Or, take a walk.

 

Have a fun, relaxing activity to look forward to every evening (it doesn't have to be long).  Such as, watching a Christmas movie together, doing a Christmas craft, wrapping gifts, making Christmas cards together, etc. 

 

Always have Christmas music playing in the background.  haha -- doesn't that help everything?

[lionfamily1999]

No, but his loosey gooseyness seems to make all of my tasks much harder.

 

He excuses the kids from breakfast because he wants to take them outside to play in the snow...Great!!  But, he doesn't have them wash their hands or brush their teeth, so syrup stickiness is spread over the entire mud room and all their snow clothes, and he doesn't have them do their after meal chores, so I have to add those to my load...all because he took a shortcut around the well established 10 minute morning routine that the kids would have automatically followed if he hadn't bypassed it.

 

He plays with the kids with legos and trains and blocks...way more toys than I would allow out all at the same time...and then herds the kids off to do something else without cleaning up the huge mess.

 

He agrees to be in charge of breakfast one morning so I can run errands, but I come home at 9am (two hours after the kids wake) and no one has eaten yet.  DH is playing at his computer, the bigger kids are fighting at their computer (probably partly due to low blood sugar) and the baby (who should be going down for his morning nap soon) hasn't even had his diaper changed yet.

 

None of those are hills to die on.  None of them are insurmountable obstacles when DH is home for a weekend.  However, when he is home for over two weeks, those sorts of issues start to add up.  The kids get used to all fun and no chores.  The messes mount faster than I can clean them up, and that doesn't even take into account the extra messes that are inherent around holidays.  

 

I don't fault DH's intentions.  He wants the holidays to be fun for all of us.  He wants to play, play, play and not worry about teeth getting brushed or naps getting missed or chores left undone "just this once".  But when you have 18 days of just-this-once's in a row, things start to fall apart.  He knows this intellectually; he doesn't like wading through the clutter or dealing with overtired children either, but when the rubber meets the road, that knowledge does not adequately inspire him to stick closer to the routines I have put in place to help avoid those things.

 

Wendy 

Ahhhh, okay.  

 

This may not help at all, but at one point I quit.

 

It took them a little while to notice, basically once they realized they hadn't eaten all day (except what they'd gotten themselves) and then the next day... no clean dishes.  After about three days of me slogging around, leaving plates everywhere and living the life of everybody else (which, honestly, was not very relaxing), my youngest asked me why the sink was dirty.  I told him the maid had quit.  He went and asked dh if he could get another maid, LOL and dh pointed out we'd never had a maid.  Then he noticed the house, the dishes, the lack of hot meals (because honestly, that man could live in this mess for ages without actually noticing).  Dh noticed me, in a seething silence.  Dh washed the dishes, tidied up the house, and very quietly fell into telling the kids to put the dishes in the kitchen &tc.

 

Granted, that was one time.  There have been others.  At one point I told him I never expected to be a single parent, especially since I was married.  That one got a little ugly, but for a time he strove to reinforce everything.

 

Now?  Well, I'll jump in and stop the fun.

 

Frankly, there isn't much to argue against stopping the kids from running outside so that they can wash the syrup off their hands and put their dishes in the sink.  It's not like a half-hour long chore, it takes minutes.  I think my dh would feel foolish if he started whining about that.  And I think my response to his whining would be edged with mockery, "Aww, snuggims, you can play outside with your friends just as soon as you wash your hands and put your dishes in the sink."

 

I realize that I'm basically pointing back to levity.  If you can get a laugh out of it, it just seems to release some of the tension.

[lionfamily1999]

Actually laughing doesn't have to happen either.  Sometimes maniacal laughter works, or humungous fake tv laughter.

 

There have been times when the table was left in a complete mess and as the kids and dh walked away I let out the loudest laugh I possibly could.  That'll stop them in their tracks ;)  And then I said, "You're joking right?  That's hilarious!  Now clean this up you silly heads :p "

[fraidycat]

When the bickering starts ask yourself if it'll matter next week. Then, don't engage.

 

Next week will it matter what shade of green a shirt is or how much the tree may or may not be tilted? Just wear the dang shirt and straighten and fluff the tree when needed.

 

Oh, and buy paper plates for his "vacation" so you get one, too.

[EmilyGF]

I like paper plates, Trader Joe's meals, no made beds. Let kids wear jammies if they want to. Ignore messes that have doors to shut. Buy boxed cereal. No scratch cooking. Take a vacation yourself.

[fairfarmhand]

Bickering---Remember it takes 2 to argue. So just stop.  If he begins to insist on something foolish, just smile and shrug.

 

Cleaning up--for simple 5 minute chores, I'd stop people and go, Wait! This takes 5 minutes. It's okay. You guys can go out in 5 minutes.

 

I'd also have a sit down at the beginning. I wouldn't address the bickering, since that's something you can control. But I would say, "Hey, I am willing to relax on a b and c, but x y and z are really non-negotiable, I'd remind him that you realize that he needs a FUN vacation, but it probably doesn't occur to him that for YOU it's NOT FUN to have these particular things pile up. You wouldn't allow the kids to run wild in his office at work with sticky hands and faces so that before he could even get to work in January he has to wipe things off. SImple things like washing hands and faces and stacking dishes in the sink can immensely help lighten your load.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug: Can the two of you sit down and, without judgement and leaving concerns about who is right way behind in the laundry room, discuss what each of your expectations will be for extended togetherness?  Could each of you write down on a piece of paper just a couple of goals and a few concerns, nothing overwhelming or dredging up every single issue that has ever come up, then compare them and see how to blend the goals and address the issues before they come up?  So that each side feels supported and respected?

 

 

[JustEm]

Dh and I have been married 7 years and have had kids for 6 of those years.  We both used to make it to about day 4 of vacation before we were done with the other person and started bickering over the craziest things.  Two things have really helped fix that.

 

1.  Getting out by yourself for a few hours sometime around day 4.  Each of us takes a day to do our own thing and recharge from all the commotion of all being off our normal routines.

 

2.  Explaining to dh ahead of the vacation break that I'm fine with letting the routine at home go for the most part but if the house becomes too chaotic for me then I need everyone's help to get it back in order, at least before he goes back to work.  If we all make the mess together and we are both on vacation then we all clean it up together before that vacation is over.

 

Now we still bicker about silly things but its not as often and it certainly doesn't get anyone upset. 

[marbel]

<snip>

 

Oh, and buy paper plates for his "vacation" so you get one, too.

 

Yes.   We don't like to use a lot of paper but sometimes disposable plates are a must in our house.   It helps a lot!

 

[happypamama]

Bickering---Remember it takes 2 to argue. So just stop. If he begins to insist on something foolish, just smile and shrug.

 

Cleaning up--for simple 5 minute chores, I'd stop people and go, Wait! This takes 5 minutes. It's okay. You guys can go out in 5 minutes.

 

I'd also have a sit down at the beginning. I wouldn't address the bickering, since that's something you can control. But I would say, "Hey, I am willing to relax on a b and c, but x y and z are really non-negotiable, I'd remind him that you realize that he needs a FUN vacation, but it probably doesn't occur to him that for YOU it's NOT FUN to have these particular things pile up. You wouldn't allow the kids to run wild in his office at work with sticky hands and faces so that before he could even get to work in January he has to wipe things off. SImple things like washing hands and faces and stacking dishes in the sink can immensely help lighten your load.

I totally agree with this. If you talk to him beforehand, you may head off the problems. Tell him, "After breakfast, they need to brush their teeth and wash their hands before they go out to play." He probably doesn't even think about it since he doesn't do the morning routine often. Tell him what's non-negotiable.

 

I have noticed that DH and I will bicker more when one of us (usually me) has some small grievance like this and is trying not to say anything because it's a small grievance.

[wendyroo]

You wouldn't allow the kids to run wild in his office at work with sticky hands and faces so that before he could even get to work in January he has to wipe things off. 

 

I might have to put it in these terms for him.  

 

He honestly doesn't seem to think much about how stuff actually gets done.  Over Thanksgiving he sat down and painted with the kids and then they all went off to play without cleaning any of it up.  When I called them for lunch, he didn't even seem to notice that the table was now tidy and paint-free as opposed to the disaster he left it.

 

I don't want to nag him.  I also don't want to be petty or make him decide to stop doing fun things with the kids.  It was only 10 minutes of clean up, and granted, with the kids "help" it would have taken a couple extra minutes.  But, gosh darn it, they make the messes, so why do I get stuck cleaning them up?  It's not like every week day when I play or cook or do crafts with the kids that I then leave the mess on the table for DH to clean up when he gets home.

 

Wendy

[wendyroo]

Tell him, "After breakfast, they need to brush their teeth and wash their hands before they go out to play." He probably doesn't even think about it since he doesn't do the morning routine often. Tell him what's non-negotiable.

 

 

This is part of what drives me nuts.  Peter is autistic, which means he thrives on routine and our home is plastered with visual schedules.  Any stranger coming in off the street would be able to look and see what the kids need to do after breakfast...or at any other given time of the day.

 

Sometimes I think this is what DH is "rebelling" against.  He just wants to take a vacation from all the routine, but that would be like taking a vacation from giving a diabetic child insulin.

 

Wendy

[lllll]

..

[hornblower]

I agree with so much that's been stated above.

I'd try talking about it beforehand & saying 'look there's this pattern we fall into & I don't want to do that anymore' & also concretely list the stuff that ticks you off (which he might not be aware of) & also how you might be able to both express things more constructively when they come up. Can you come up with a phrase that you can use as a way to introduce something & yet signal 'pls let's not bicker"

so for example, maybe in your conversation in advance you might use the analogy that you want to feel like you're all in the same canoe & rowing the same direction & working smoothly as a team. So if something's not going right, you're getting splashed. Then, when an issue comes up, you can introduce it as an "hey, i'm getting splashed here. can we fix how we're rowing? " ...

& the old reframing of "when you do _____ I feel _____ "

And bottom line is this: it takes 2 to bicker. Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right? Which is more important? 

Here's an article on choosing happiness over being right.   & how it can improve a relationship.

This is hard stuff btw so remember to reward yourself when you step back. Positive reinforcement starts with noticing your good choice.  For me it also makes a huge difference when I meditate. I need endless practice to be able to catch that milisecond in time before I get sucked into a vortex of "ffs, what? this is so stupid! grrrrrr" 

If I manage to take a breath I can frequently look at it more calmly or just let it go. It takes a lot of practice.

But you can change yourself & your responses. 

I used to be the most argumentative bitch around. The internet was made for folks like me. People I can argue with 24h/day!!!! :D  IRL, I've mellowed a lot... Online too. It's been eons since I got banned LOL
 

[wendyroo]

I would rebel as well.  I think you need to give your husband a break to some extent.  Your son can learn to be somewhat flexible to a certain extent.  My oldest did with me, bless his heart.  But I couldn't/wouldn't follow your schedule.

 

Peter is slowly, slowly getting more flexible, but he is still a 5 year old autistic child.

 

After years of work with psychiatrists and counselors, and finally getting him on medication, we have reached a point that when the chore wheels shows that it is Elliot's turn to put the cups away out of the dishwasher, that Peter does not melt down and hit Elliot when he does it "wrong" (out of Roy G Biv order).  Yes, Peter then frets about the cups all through breakfast, and fixes them as soon as he is excused from the table, but there is no screaming or violence.

 

We have a system in place for knowing which child gets to turn the chore wheel each morning, who gets to walk down the drive way with me to get the mail each day, whose turn it is to push the button to open the van door...because before we had a system, Peter was routinely shoving Elliot away from the van and Elliot was cracking his head against the cement curb.

 

That new-found "control" teeters on a knife-edge, and I'm scared to death of going back to a time of 5 hour tantrums, doors getting kicked down and people getting shoved down stairs.

 

Wendy 

[Chelle in MO]

You have my sympathy!  I am married to a right-brained engineer (a rare breed!) and it's a daily struggle to decide what's worth making an issue over and what isn't. I've started keeping my mouth shut a lot more often than I ever thought possible!

[lionfamily1999]

I might have to put it in these terms for him.  

 

He honestly doesn't seem to think much about how stuff actually gets done.  Over Thanksgiving he sat down and painted with the kids and then they all went off to play without cleaning any of it up.  When I called them for lunch, he didn't even seem to notice that the table was now tidy and paint-free as opposed to the disaster he left it.

 

I don't want to nag him.  I also don't want to be petty or make him decide to stop doing fun things with the kids.  It was only 10 minutes of clean up, and granted, with the kids "help" it would have taken a couple extra minutes.  But, gosh darn it, they make the messes, so why do I get stuck cleaning them up?  It's not like every week day when I play or cook or do crafts with the kids that I then leave the mess on the table for DH to clean up when he gets home.

 

Wendy

Yeah, I wouldn't have cleaned that up.  I'd have left it and told them to clean it up so they could have lunch...

 

So, my parents were married for over forty years.  When my dad retired, my mom retired too.  She had been a homemaker for the past twenty years, for the most part, and she decided that since he was done working, she was done working.  You can probably imagine the friction that caused.  For *years* my parents grumbled and fought and resentment built.  Dad *would* do some things, but he never got what he felt like was enough credit for it.  Mom would do stuff and feel like Dad didn't even notice.  They loved each other, but man were they angry, for *years*.  Then, in August, Mom went into the hospital, because she was having problems breathing.  We were told that she had days left.  Dad repented of every single complaint.  Too little too late?  Not really, a miracle happened and Mom recovered.  Her and Dad both realized how short life is to hate each other, the person they love most in the world, over piddling stuff like who is going to make coffee and who should have to mop and whether or not they got enough credit for everything they did.  At least they had some time to make up.  Mom died Nov 3 and Dad is hurting and lost and terribly terribly sad.  He sees now how much he needed her, how much she did even though she had been sick for ages.

 

Cold comfort?

 

Here's what I've learned.  I've learned that it scares me to think of Drew having to clean up after himself.  It hurts me to think of them realizing how much he needed me.  The only thing that would hurt worse is if he had me saying "I told you so" in his head the whole time, rather than "See how much I love you."  Or to have him hate himself for making me a resentful, bitter woman for our last years together.  

 

I'll never get to retire, the house will always be here and it will always need to be cleaned.  Meals will need to be cooked.  Dishes will need to be washed.  At first, I balked at this realization.  How freaking unfair!!!!!  But now I realize that this is what will be, God willing, and at some point it will all stop and I just hope that when I'm gone and Drew sees, finally, how much I did that he will remember it all as my saying "I love you" with every nasty dish that I washed and every meal I cooked.

[Chelle in MO]

Peter is slowly, slowly getting more flexible, but he is still a 5 year old autistic child.

 

After years of work with psychiatrists and counselors, and finally getting him on medication, we have reached a point that when the chore wheels shows that it is Elliot's turn to put the cups away out of the dishwasher, that Peter does not melt down and hit Elliot when he does it "wrong" (out of Roy G Biv order).  Yes, Peter then frets about the cups all through breakfast, and fixes them as soon as he is excused from the table, but there is no screaming or violence.

 

We have a system in place for knowing which child gets to turn the chore wheel each morning, who gets to walk down the drive way with me to get the mail each day, whose turn it is to push the button to open the van door...because before we had a system, Peter was routinely shoving Elliot away from the van and Elliot was cracking his head against the cement curb.

 

That new-found "control" teeters on a knife-edge, and I'm scared to death of going back to a time of 5 hour tantrums, doors getting kicked down and people getting shoved down stairs.

 

Wendy 

 

I was typing my first post when you were typing this, so I just have to say that it's sounds like you really need to try to express this to your husband.  You're not talking about just personality differences between the two of you, you're talking about learning to do the best for your whole family given the challenges of your 5 yr. old.   :grouphug:

[EmseB]

I think I see several issues being expressed that probably intertwine some.

 

1) The messes.  I think you either have to clean them up cheerfully or let them go.  You see them leaving a mess for you to clean up.  I would say, take the mess thing less personally.  If you don't want to clean it up, or feel resentful of cleaning it up, then don't.  Let them eat lunch on a table that has a mess on it.  Yes, the house will be messier, but everyone will be happier if you can have a change of heart and see a good dad making messes with his kids and having fun.  I have had to start thinking of cleaning up as a way to clear the way for more messes and good fun.  Usually I don't like being involved in the mess making, but I'm a more fun person if I can just let them go and have a good time.

 

2) The bickering.  I think the shrug and smile approach is a good one when it comes to fighting over something silly like the color of a shirt.  Maybe even a pass the bean dip approach if DH won't let it go.  "I can't believe we're fighting over this!!  Hey, have you seen my good sewing scissors?  I can't find them anywhere," or, "Huh, I never thought of it that way.  What do you want to do about dinner tomorrow when the Smiths are going to be here?".  As others have stated, being right is not the most important thing, especially when it's petty stuff.

 

3) The system for your son to function has to have buy in from both of you to work when DH is around.  He's aware of the injuries and tantrums?  And doesn't see it as a problem if it happens?  Can you possibly have a meeting with your son's therapist, you and DH to talk about how vital this system is?

[Danestress]

These are my somewhat contradictory tips.

 

1. Sometimes DH and I bicker more when our conversations include stress 'in anticipation' of possible arguments. What should be a simple statement can then be infused with stress, defensiveness, or irritation. Try to just state the facts without that emotional content. Just say "the kids need to clean up before they go." If you keep it brief and neutral, it goes over better. The fact that you are worried about bickering probably increases the liklihood of conflict.

 

2. DH and I both can get upset just by seeing that the other is a tiny little bit irritated. Sometimes we need to just let the other person be annoyed. I am especially guilty of sometimes wanting him to do what I want but then being upset that I can see he doesn't like it. It's often better for me just to ignore that I can see the negativity. We are both adults. We both have to do things we don't feel like doing. In the long run, it has been better to accept a little irritation. The other option is that I do everything and feel resentful. Likewise, he needs to be able to say what he wants and needs without always worrying about whether it will cause me to get my feathers ruffled. We both hate even a hint of conflict. But good marriages aren't built on fear.

 

3. "Least said, soonest mended." If we have conflict, I try to keep the discussion limited to the subject at hand. It never helps to spiral into other issues, even if those issues are legitimate problems that may eventually need to be addressed.

 

4. I am a total hypocrite, and despite the above, I do tons of housework that in all fairness should be more evenly distributed. This is more the case with the children then with DH. DH is actually pretty awesome. But I end up just doing things rather then having tension with my kids. Your kids are young. Don't do what I did! Keep training them. You will be glad some day. I fear my future DILs will hate me because I have let my kids get away with being slobs. They are practically perfect in all other ways, though.

 

DH's mother demanded a lot. Her rule was that if she was on her feet working, no one else needed to be sitting down. I am grateful to her, and DH adores her. So I guess I should have been stricter with my own kid. So while I agree with those who say not to sweat the small stuff, I think you are smart to be training them well. 25 years of handling everyone's 'small stuff' is a heck of a lot of work!

[wendyroo]

Your kids are young. Don't do what I did! Keep training them. You will be glad some day. I fear my future DILs will hate me because I have let my kids get away with being slobs. They are practically perfect in all other ways, though.

 

DH's mother demanded a lot. Her rule was that if she was on her feet working, no one else needed to be sitting down. I am grateful to her, and DH adores her. So I guess I should have been stricter with my own kid. So while I agree with those who say not to sweat the small stuff, I think you are smart to be training them well. 25 years of handling everyone's 'small stuff' is a heck of a lot of work!

 

My kids are pretty good about their chores.  

 

My 5 year old is completely routine driven, so once I get a task integrated into one of his routines, it gets done.  The three year old goes through normal, preschool stubborn phases, but has mostly accepted that chores get done before meals, and that he won't be allowed to participate in art projects if he does not do his best to help clean up.

 

They will actually "complain" to DH when they don't do what they are supposed to, "But, Daddy, I didn't brush my teeth."  To which DH replies something along the lines of, "Don't worry about it.  You can do it later."

 

Other have suggested just leaving the painting mess all over the table if DH and the kids don't clean it up, but I'm just not sure how that works practically.  I feel it is my responsibility to feed my young children who are not yet old enough to fend for themselves.  Would I lay out the food on top of the art mats and their pictures amongst the puddles of paint?  It sounds like an even bigger mess that I would end up having to clean up.  Would I allow the brushes and paints to get hard and ruined as a statement about DH not cleaning up?

 

Wendy

[lionfamily1999]

If they were expected to clean up their mess, then the expectation stands.  Lunch is ready, they need to go clean up the table so that they can eat.  Don't put it on the mess, have lunch ready and wait to put it on the table until the table is cleaned up.

 

Here, dh pays for everything.  It only takes so many replacements before he starts being more careful about taking care of stuff.  I used to sweat it, especially scissors.  Dh and the kids would use good scissors for all sorts of monkey shines and destroy them, or lose them.  I used to stress about that so much, good scissors are not cheap!  But it made everyone miserable to have me guarding the scissors and watching them with the scissors and flipping out when I caught them doing things with the scissors that the scissors were not made to do.  So, I bought two pairs the next time.  As soon as a pair was lost or ruined, I replaced it.  One day dh noticed how many pairs of ruined scissors we had and that I was, again, bringing home new scissors.  Suddenly he's more careful about the scissors and in the mean time I got to stop being such a bear about them.  

[MomatHWTK]

Relax.  Having a good relationship with a fun dad is wonderful and will give your kids just as much benefit as learning to do chores.  Let him be right or win- not because you are meek but because really, don't you have better things to do with your time than argue about shirt colors?  Why bother?  Not essential, why bother? 

 

Just keep telling yourself, life is too short to waste on trying to get everything right.  Teach your kids that it is OK to be flexible.  It is GOOD to be able to pivot quickly and change speed, adjust to a new environment, work with different personalities.  These are important skills for anyone.  Challenge yourself to think outside the box rather than create a perfect one. 

 

 

 

 

ETA:  I would yell "Wash your hands first" as the kids scampered.

 

Your are an engineer- surely you can see the benefit of having various types of toys out at once?  I don't think any of my kids would develop into the adults I hope them to be with the skills I hope for them to have if they could only play with toys one at a time or as intended.  Yes, it is OK to say "30 minutes until bedtime lets clean this up" but I think it would be very sad if the Legos never got to play with the Thomas Tank Engine.  :)

 

Paints- once I realized my kids weren't ready to care for brushes (which includes not cleaning them on time) then they weren't painters anymore.  My DD now paints and keeps her brushes clean.  In the past, yes, I let the brushes be ruined and waited awhile before buying new ones.  "Mom can we paint?"  Nope- no brushes. 

 

Brushing teeth- not the end of the world, really.  They know to do it, it will get done.  Or you could just say "Well go brush them real quick!" 

 

Baby's diaper and feeding kids- guarantee when I get home from wherever I've been that I would have to announce that both needed to be done.  It's a running joke in our family.  As I come in the house DH is cooking food and trying to get dishes done simultaneously and the kids say "I'm starving."  No one has dropped from starvation yet. 

 

I has an Aspie and he does like routine, but he's going into a world without signs everywhere someday.  Your DH's randomness may be the limited exposure in a safe environment that helps your child recognize and adjust to change in the future.  Think of it as social skills training.  ;)

 

If your routines are established, it shouldn't take more than a day or two to get the kids back on track.  I would even remind them over the holidays that on X date we will resume normal routines.  (This helps my Aspie a lot.)

 

 

I did want to add that if there are specific things that stress my Aspie and DH isn't taking care of those I do get a little hostile.  DS has a specific food that only DH makes  "the right way" and I've been known to rip DH out of a deep sleep to make more when we run out.  So even for me, some things are non-negotiable.  In your instance, I just think the non-negotiable, hill to die on list, might do with some shortening. 

 

 

[EmilyGF]

Decide what hills you are willing to die on. Then let everything else go. If you want to take offense, you will find something to get mad at.

 

Can your hubby get paid for working during vacation some (I was a paid as a consultant in my past life...)? Doesn't he want to learn a new programming language or something? Or begin a start up?  :-)

 

Emily

[MomatHWTK]

 

Here, dh pays for everything.  It only takes so many replacements before he starts being more careful about taking care of stuff.  I used to sweat it, especially scissors.  Dh and the kids would use good scissors for all sorts of monkey shines and destroy them, or lose them.  I used to stress about that so much, good scissors are not cheap!  But it made everyone miserable to have me guarding the scissors and watching them with the scissors and flipping out when I caught them doing things with the scissors that the scissors were not made to do.  So, I bought two pairs the next time.  As soon as a pair was lost or ruined, I replaced it.  One day dh noticed how many pairs of ruined scissors we had and that I was, again, bringing home new scissors.  Suddenly he's more careful about the scissors and in the mean time I got to stop being such a bear about them.  

 

LOL everyone here knows that there will be dire consequences if they touch Mommy's scissors.  All the others are fair game and I buy them in 5 packs. 

[happi duck]

What jumps out to me is the routine aspect of the situation.

 

I need routine to function and for years dh did not take my word for it. Since he doesn't need routine he could not understand my need.

 

I just went with it for years but am now paying the price for not having the full routine I needed. If dh could go back he would. He now realizes he should have taken my word for it. It does not hurt him to have routine but it hurts me to not have routine.

 

The insulin example is good. To extend it...it would not hurt a family to eat well and exercise due to a diabetic family member but it would hurt the person with diabetes if the family was a stumbling block to eating well and exercising.

 

I wish I would've persisted in getting dh to understand sooner. He wishes he'd understood sooner as well.

 

I'm not sure why no routine equals "fun".

 

Eta: Yes, I am flexible and can deal with things going a different direction BUT I am more flexible when I have routine in place for the " normal" stuff.

 

Eta:Skip clearing the dishes because something great or urgent came up...sure!! Skip it just to put off a three minute task...why?

[Laurie4b]

I haven't read through all the responses but got about 1/2 way through.

 

I would bring the subject up with him now, before the holidays start. Stuff like how structured you'll be is probably good to negotiate now. You could also both agree to refrain from arguing over little stuff. Brainstorm about how to take some of the stress out of your visit at your parents'.

 

If you do it ahead of time, you can tap into his engineer's plan ahead, logical mind which is used to solving problems.

[Spryte]

I have been reading this thread, and there are so many, many great ideas, there's not much for me to add.  But I wanted to say that your comment about the level and the protractor for the Christmas tree made me  :lol: .  In a good way.  I could see that happening here years ago. If I were you, I'd be making a special, silly ornament for DH - one involving a level and a protractor.  I'd give it to him as a joke, and that would be the opening to talk about how *not* to go there again.  But that would work here - DH and I have weird senses of humor, and it would make us laugh.  It would also be a great reminder each time we looked at the tree.  But you know your DH, and I don't - so if it would cause friction, don't do it.  

 

Here, DH works from home.  And we homeschool.  And we're a one car family.  So we are together all. the. time.  It took some adjustment. We get out as a family a lot, so getting out every day for fun might help.  We invite friends over frequently.  Also, time out for your DH and/or you alone is a must. ...and, I just want to add that lots of teA for the holidays will keep mom & dad happier and more relaxed, too.  

 

Maybe there's a way you could devise a revised "holiday schedule" for the kids, together?  Something that keeps your 5 year old on track and comfortable, and something that works for both you and DH?  

 

Oh, and I'm all for paper plates or whatever might make the time easier.  Any short cuts to keeping everyone happy, during stressful times - well worth it!

 

[happi duck]

Another vote for disposable plates etc. We do this during NaNoWriMo and it helps a lot!

[JuanitaL]

I'd try talking about it beforehand & saying 'look there's this pattern we fall into & I don't want to do that anymore' & also concretely list the stuff that ticks you off (which he might not be aware of) & also how you might be able to both express things more constructively when they come up. Can you come up with a phrase that you can use as a way to introduce something & yet signal 'pls let's not bicker"

 

 

 

We had a somewhat similar conversation one time while we were driving somewhere with the radio on (helps a lot to talk about something ahead of time - expectation management); our phrase that we now use for just about anything that signals: you're upsetting me, this makes me anxious, I'm getting PO'd, etc. is "Paradise City".

 

[lmrich]

I heard Jerry Seinfeld (crazy to take a comedian's advice - he might have been joking) say that when in your relationship you should not be an accountant. You should not count how many times you fed the baby, how many times he shoveled the driveway, or how many times he did not feed the kids breakfast. I do not know how you let  go of your accounting skills, but just do everything you do with cheer. 

 

But my better advice - ask for a maid to come over twice while he is home and go spend the day away. 

[EmilyGF]

Wendyroo, I think you should post this on the Gen Ed or Learning Challenges board, with notes specifically about your son's spectrum status in the first post.

 

I think 8filltheheart would have some good advice and she doesn't read this board. Your initial post didn't include any information about your son's special needs, so, while a lot of our posts made sense for us, you said they could never work for you. 

[LaughingCat]

I would just pick the most important to me things  and then say to do them to the kids....

So when DH jumps up and starts herding the kids outside after breakfast -- "Kids, wash your hands first so you don't get honey everywhere"

Starts off to next fun game, leaving the paints/brushes out -- "Kids, wash your brushes out first or you won't have any next time you want to paint"

 

Another choice for the crafts is to get 'disposable' choices for the most likely activities - paper plates to pour paint onto, those super cheap kids brushes -- and then just throw them all out after.

 

 

[sewingmama]

My DH has 6 weeks vacation over Christmas ( he's a teacher). I dealt with it this year by sending him to Canada for 4 of them and I am so relieved LOL. Still wondering how to handle the other two weeks he will be home.

[lionfamily1999]

LOL everyone here knows that there will be dire consequences if they touch Mommy's scissors.  All the others are fair game and I buy them in 5 packs. 

My husband is a mechanic who is very very careful with his tools.  I used to be offended that he would see no problem with taking my good scissors and using them to cut gaskets :o  But, he just doesn't get it.  Our vacuum has gone through three belts this year.  Every time he uses it, he breaks the belt (literally, ever-single-time).  I just *have* to laugh about it, otherwise...  well, I don't even want to think about otherwise :p