Hoarding.....genetic? Yes or No?

[Bang!Zoom!]

I'm really divided on this question; not sure if there is a right or wrong answer.  What's your opinion?

[Pronghorn]

The anxiety that leads to hoarding may be genetic.

[bolt.]

Whether or not it is concretely genetic, I think it is definitely "hereditary," due to bring raised with those social norms in one's family (from birth). To see if it is genetic, children would have to have been raised by other people... Not exactly a study one could set up on purpose.

[mathnerd]

I don't think that it is genetic. My FIL has hoarded stuff from 50 years ago. It is impossible to walk around in their house freely. My DH is a hoarder on that level. But his 2 siblings have no hoarding instincts at all. In fact, they throw stuff and then buy more new stuff. If it is genetic, then all the kids should have inherited it, I guess.

[Bang!Zoom!]

The other interesting thing is what triggers hoarding.  Do you guys ever watch Hoarders, find yourself compelled to clean right after?

[Tanaqui]

We don't know. It seems that hoarding can have a genetic component, but that doesn't mean that genetics is the be all and end all of the disorder.

[unsinkable]

The other interesting thing is what triggers hoarding. Do you guys ever watch Hoarders, find yourself compelled to clean right after?

Yes, I have watched Hoarders...and it is clear to me, that in many cases, people are reacting to a deep loss by hoarding.

 

I remember one story that involved animal hoarding where the woman knew she was doing the best thing for the dogs by giving most of them up but her cries were so guttural and wrenching, I'll cry remembering it. She had family members die that she felt responsible for and it was clear to me, the connection of that early loss and her hoarding.

[Ellie]

I'm really divided on this question; not sure if there is a right or wrong answer.  What's your opinion?

 

A friend who has hoarders in her family said she read some research that included actual brain scans (I'm sure that isn't the correct word, lol, but y'all know what I mean); those scans could identify a specific location in the brains of hoarders that was inactive? in some way different from non-hoarders. So I'm going with genetic.

 

My friend also has Alzheimers--four out of her mother's four sisters all have/had it--so I wonder if there's a connection there?

[Bang!Zoom!]

Sometimes it's also hard to tell the difference between say, a life episode..like depression and deep grieving that can cause a person to neglect their environment....and sometimes they don't ever "get back up" and it starts a trigger point.

Then...there are clutter folks..not unsanitary, just clutter.

Then there are the Pintrest Perfect People.  Which I am not, but aspire to be some day.  I spend a lot of time on Pintrest getting my PH'd in visual studies for perfection of a beautiful artful home.  I hear the time to complete is about twenty years.

Then there's another breed, like the messy Professor desk.  I find that one very interesting as well.

There's so many kinds to illustrate, such a range.

[jenncslp]

I tend to think that there is some genetic predisposition to it.  My mother was a hoarder (of course, we didn't know that there was a name/diagnosis for it 20 years ago).  While she could make up reasons why she "needed" all the stuff, it all seemed to be rooted in the fact that she had suffered so much loss in her life and she was afraid that she wouldn't be able to get more of things, if she needed it.  

 

Though my brother and I are not hoarders, I know that we both have areas where we fight the exact same emotions.  It's. a weird thing, but I do have to ask myself whether I'm keeping things based on need or on fear that I won't be able to get them again.

 

Jennifer

[Bang!Zoom!]

Then there are the "it's my hobby" kind.  You know, some creative outlet bug hits and WHAM, it's all over the house.  They say that there is a "new" kind of hoarder which is called a digital hoarder.  I'm not sure exactly what that's all about, but it's a type.

I take the 5th on this facet of type casting.

[SKL]

I hope not, LOL.

 

Regarding reacting to a loss - I find this to be a dilemma.  Some people say you shouldn't purge your kids' junk because they will become hoarders.  But if I let them keep all that stuff, how is that not contributing to hoarderliness?

 

My kids were adopted, and one of them has gone through hoarding phases (usually sugar).  I don't know what the right balance is.  I have a hard time believing that letting my kids keep 1000 folded papers and duct tape masterpieces is going to somehow make them well-organized, fulfilled adults ....

[Bang!Zoom!]

We do very regular "keep/donate/toss/giveaway" here and have since the beginning.  We also have had some very prolonged interesting life experiences where all you can literally keep is what you can fit in a suitcase and there is the line.   (Very frequent moving, perhaps every 3 months as causation) - so my only sensitivity is photographs which are very portable thanks to back up drives.

If I lost them, it wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'd sure bawl a lot.  I'm sure to get copies to family and such, and have even taken several classes on how to back up your back up systems.  They are very important to me.

I rarely watch TV, but have a few times recently, and during the Christmas season, all the advertising for children and toys...they make me a little ill honestly.  

The perfume commercials, the diamonds, the cars...really?  Really?

If I buy that perfume I'm going to be 23 years old with the body of an athlete, upon a yacht with a trust fund with an exotic relationship to match?  Wow.  Hook me up!  LOL

 

[PrincessMommy]

A friend who has hoarders in her family said she read some research that included actual brain scans (I'm sure that isn't the correct word, lol, but y'all know what I mean); those scans could identify a specific location in the brains of hoarders that was inactive? in some way different from non-hoarders. So I'm going with genetic.

 

My friend also has Alzheimers--four out of her mother's four sisters all have/had it--so I wonder if there's a connection there?

 

I wonder about this as well.  I have a family member we suspect is a hoarder.  This person was hoarding candy wrappers and other non-essential type things from a very young age.  There is no known trauma or loss either.   The other siblings in the family do not seem to have this...but there are older relatives (grandmother/great-aunt, etc.) who seemed to have had an issue too.    The other component is that this person married someone who very clearly has hoarding issues...so whatever may have been "slightly hoarding" in my relative is only made worse. 

[elegantlion]

I have hoarders in my family. They grew up very poor in the depression. Of 8 children, most have some sort of hoarding issue. One went the complete opposite and is minimal. I think it's a mix of nature and nurture. These children are all in their upper years now and for a lot of them, the collections have gotten progressively worse. 

 

From what I've observed, there seems to be a few issues: 1. inability to get rid of items no longer used. 2. attaching too much sentimentality to physical items, and 3. not being able to see a boundary on how much of one item you need. 

 

For example:

 

1. no one wants clothing from the 70s, not really. 

2. I struggle with this, but what I keep must work with my decorating. I recently got rid of lots of stuff that had sentimental value because it didn't work in my house or current lifestyle. 

3. I have two sets of sheets for my bed. One of the people I'm discussing once had (and may still, I don't know) a whole closet full of linens for three beds, just sheet sets, not comforters and such. They have enough towels to outfit an army, but they don't get rid of the old ones if they buy new. 

 

 

[maize]

That's not how genetics work. Not everyone inherits all their parents negative traits.

 

Mental illness is heritable. Hoarding is a symptom of mental illness.

Yep.

 

Did all the kids get their dad's eye color? Hair color? Build? Quirky little toe?

 

Kids aren't exact clones of a parent, some inherit one characteristic, some another.

[Pronghorn]

I have hoarders in my family. They grew up very poor in the depression. Of 8 children, most have some sort of hoarding issue. One went the complete opposite and is minimal. I think it's a mix of nature and nurture. These children are all in their upper years now and for a lot of them, the collections have gotten progressively worse. 

 

From what I've observed, there seems to be a few issues: 1. inability to get rid of items no longer used. 2. attaching too much sentimentality to physical items, and 3. not being able to see a boundary on how much of one item you need. 

 

For example:

 

1. no one wants clothing from the 70s, not really. 

2. I struggle with this, but what I keep must work with my decorating. I recently got rid of lots of stuff that had sentimental value because it didn't work in my house or current lifestyle. 

3. I have two sets of sheets for my bed. One of the people I'm discussing once had (and may still, I don't know) a whole closet full of linens for three beds, just sheet sets, not comforters and such. They have enough towels to outfit an army, but they don't get rid of the old ones if they buy new. 

 

This doesn't seem like hoarding to me. I keep very old clothing (I probably wear stuff from the 80s now and then. I keep stuff with sentimental value. I don't necessarily throw old things away when I get new.

 

In my experience, hoarding happens when you get completely irrational about stuff. The wastebasket stays empty and the used tissues/candy wrappers/torn clothing are thrown on the floor around the wastebasket due to anxiety about throwing things away. To me, that is hoarding. As long as the extra sheets still fit in the closet, I would not worry about hoarding.

[The Girls' Mom]

I think the predisposition for hoarding can be genetic.  I also think that environment and trauma can be triggers to make it uncontrollable.  The hoarding bug runs in my dad's side of the family (animals) and in my dh's maternal side (things).  One of my dds has the potential there to become a hoarder.  She has a very hard time letting go of things.  She can develop an emotional attachment to a scrap of paper.  I think that if something stressful occurred in her life, it could probably trigger grand scale hoarding.  She has witnessed the horrible effects of the hoarding by a close relative, so I'm hoping it will help her control it.  

[Bang!Zoom!]

Who here has actually had to clean up after a hoarder?

:::raises hand:::

That'll leave a mark.

[The Girls' Mom]

This doesn't seem like hoarding to me. I keep very old clothing (I probably wear stuff from the 80s now and then. I keep stuff with sentimental value. I don't necessarily throw old things away when I get new.

 

In my experience, hoarding happens when you get completely irrational about stuff. The wastebasket stays empty and the used tissues/candy wrappers/torn clothing are thrown on the floor around the wastebasket due to anxiety about throwing things away. To me, that is hoarding. As long as the extra sheets still fit in the closet, I would not worry about hoarding.

 Yes, this.  

 

My great grandmother's house was so full of Avon products that you literally had to walk through tunnels to navigate her house.  Even in the kitchen and the sunroom.  I have an aunt that has had animal control working with her off and on for years because of cat hoarding.  Another relative who's single wide trailer was so crammed full of trash that you also had to navigate paths.  A closet full of sheets or a cluttered house doesn't equal hoarding by any stretch.  

[SKL]

I think some older people seem to be "hoarders" but it's really just too much work for them to get rid of stuff.  I keep thinking that someday I'm going to go over and help my mom organize and clear some stuff out, but it never happens because life is so busy.  My parents have a fairly big house, and it is at least half full of stuff nobody needs or wants any more.  It's not that they don't want to throw things out, but they want to make sure they separate out the keepers from the throwaways.  When you can't even sit long enough to enjoy a meal, how are you going to go dig through a roomful of stuff? The mere thought is exhausting.

 

I see this and it inspires me to get rid of more stuff every year.  I used to be a collector, now I'm much more of a purger.

[The Girls' Mom]

Who here has actually had to clean up after a hoarder?

 

:::raises hand:::

 

That'll leave a mark.

 

I have.  It made me sad and angry for a variety of reasons.  It also made me want to scrub myself repeatedly and live like a monk.  (the feeling passed, obviously).  It was horrific.  

[jenncslp]

Who here has actually had to clean up after a hoarder?

 

:::raises hand:::

 

That'll leave a mark.

It is mind blowing!!  Would not want to repeat those days for anything!

[HS Mom in NC]

My daughter was dating a son of a hoarder raised in the hoard.  He was very OCD about keeping his apartment immaculately clean and organized.  Of his 3 siblings (all adults)  only one was a hoarder who was living in his parents' first home with their hoard while the parents lived in their second house with a hoard. 

[elegantlion]

This doesn't seem like hoarding to me. I keep very old clothing (I probably wear stuff from the 80s now and then. I keep stuff with sentimental value. I don't necessarily throw old things away when I get new.

 

In my experience, hoarding happens when you get completely irrational about stuff. The wastebasket stays empty and the used tissues/candy wrappers/torn clothing are thrown on the floor around the wastebasket due to anxiety about throwing things away. To me, that is hoarding. As long as the extra sheets still fit in the closet, I would not worry about hoarding.

Oh believe me it's hoarding. I only explained the surface of the issues. Hoarding doesn't always involve trash clutter, it can be just a stuff issue.

[LucyStoner]

I don't think that it is genetic. My FIL has hoarded stuff from 50 years ago. It is impossible to walk around in their house freely. My DH is a hoarder on that level. But his 2 siblings have no hoarding instincts at all. In fact, they throw stuff and then buy more new stuff. If it is genetic, then all the kids should have inherited it, I guess.

That's not how genetics work. Your FIL could have 3 sons with different genetic traits expressed differently, all from him.

[Laurie4b]

There are very few behavioral things for which the answer to the question is "both." Behavioral problems tend to be a combination of genetic predisosition and environmental effects.

 

[Stacia]

Is hoarding genetic?

 

I think yes & no -- it's a mix. Yes, in that I think there is a genetic component (whether that's genetic predisposition to anxiety, depression, OCD, or other factors that can trigger hoarding or even hoarding by itself as its own mental predisposition categorization), as well as part of it being environmental (sometimes people will do it because that is what they learned/how they were raised). And, as others have also already mentioned, emotional triggers can make it surface &/or make it worse, much worse.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

 

 

[Laura Corin]

In the case of my mother, I think it's connected to insecurity caused by early experiences, societal and personal.

 

L

[kristi26]

Then there are the "it's my hobby" kind.  You know, some creative outlet bug hits and WHAM, it's all over the house.  They say that there is a "new" kind of hoarder which is called a digital hoarder.  I'm not sure exactly what that's all about, but it's a type.

 

I take the 5th on this facet of type casting.

 

:blushing:  This could be me... I don't like deleting emails (I currently have at least 23,000 unread messages, not sure how many read ones and that's after trying to get rid of some).  I also have TONS of pictures all over my laptop, my old desktop, my phone...then there's everything I've ever typed up in a word document saved in all of the same places...  :leaving:

 

As for actual physical hoarding in the house, we tend to get very cluttered but are working on moving so I'm purging.  We have a lot of junk that I really know we don't need. Sigh...

 

ETA: I think there could be increased tendencies for hoarding that are partially genetic and partially environmental.

[Mergath]

I think there's a genetic component that can be triggered or worsened by trauma.  I have (actual diagnosed) OCD, and I went through a period as a kid where I had a really difficult time getting rid of anything.  The anxious feelings I had when I had to dispose of something are the same feelings I have now with my OCD, though my OCD manifests in other ways now. (Compulsive thinking rather than hoarding.)  It was almost like a panic attack.  If I had to throw something out, I had this sense of overwhelming doom.  When I was a teen, I had this poster I'd gotten as a kid.  It was rolled up and something got spilled on it.  My mom threw it out, and I got so upset I swear I almost had a nervous breakdown. :P  I had no idea at the time it was OCD, of course.  My mom just thought I was a bit off.  

 

Anxiety disorders run in my family though, so in my experience, it's at least partly genetic.

[Mergath]

Then there are the "it's my hobby" kind.  You know, some creative outlet bug hits and WHAM, it's all over the house.  They say that there is a "new" kind of hoarder which is called a digital hoarder.  I'm not sure exactly what that's all about, but it's a type.

 

I take the 5th on this facet of type casting.

 

Oh jeez.  I've been waiting for them to name that one, lol.  I download books (for the sake of discussion, we'll leave out the legality of the downloads).  I have thousands of books downloaded on an external hard drive.  More than I'll ever read.  But I keep downloading more.  :o   It doesn't negatively impact me or my family though (I spend less than ten minutes a day looking at what new books are available) so I guess I'll just keep doing it, lol.  I suppose there are worse ways for my OCD to present.

[lailasmum]

Not sure on the genetic front. My sister has always had hoarding tendencies. As a child she'd keep things like all the centres out of toilet rolls and all the receipts for everything she bought. You'd find drawers full of stuff like that. It all had sentimental value. She's a bit better as an adult, doesn't hang on to actual rubbish but can't part with things she owns very easily. I live with my mum and we have an attic 1/4 filled with my sister's belongings from teenage & 20s that she cant bear to part with. None of it's precious stuff. She also has a storage unit. I think she has issues with control. I cut off contact with her about 18 months ago for various reasons but one was her wanting control and the world to revolve around her at all times. She has quite fixed ideas about how things should be. She's not sought out help so not sure if she'd get a diagnosis of something.

[gardenmom5]

hoarding is often related to both depressive disorders and addictive/compulsive disorders - both of those are genetic. (hoarding is often treated with antidepressants).

 

have experience in this area - including with the genetic testing and results.

 

iwta: just because someone has the gene - doesn't mean they will develop that.  the gene has to be switched.  treatment can also switch it back to the more functional state.

[maize]

I actually think hoarding and compulsive cleaning can stem from the same type of underlying anxiety. Both may be ways of trying to cope with an internal sense of being out of control by controlling things/the environment.

[gardenmom5]

absolutely!  mil's family are compulsive eaters - except for one sister who went the opposite way and was always underweight.

there are multiple factors just with the genetics that can affect how the same genes are expressed.

then there is environment, and diet.

That's not how genetics work. Your FIL could have 3 sons with different genetic traits expressed differently, all from him.

 

 

[sbgrace]

I want to say they have identified a genetic change that predisposes. I'll do some research.

 

ETA: yes, chromosome 14. http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-genetics-of-compulsive-hoarding/0002465

Families with two or more hoarding relatives showed a unique pattern on chromosome 14....

There are brain differences too. I wasn't aware of that.

Hoarding patients have significantly lower activity in the brain’s dorsal anterior cingulate cortex than non-hoarding OCD patients...

 

It's an interesting article. It looks like the genetic basis for hoarding is an active area of research.

I think it's safe to say it is genetic, though, at least in some cases.

[Bang!Zoom!]

I want to say they have identified a genetic change that predisposes. I'll do some research.

 

ETA: yes, chromosome 14. http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-genetics-of-compulsive-hoarding/0002465

There are brain differences too. I wasn't aware of that.

It's an interesting article. It looks like the genetic basis for hoarding is an active area of research.

I think it's safe to say it is genetic, though, at least in some cases.

 

That's really interesting!

[Serenade]

I think hoarding is caused in part by our disposable society. In the past, people kept things forever -- they kept them until they fell apart, or they gave usable items to others. Now things get outdated so fast, we are constantly bombarded with the latest and the greatest, and I think that for middle-aged and older people, who were often raised on saving things and using them until they fell apart, our commercial society is causing a disconnect. That's my theory, anyhow.

 

Are certain people genetically pre-disposed to various addictions, yes. But I think that is only a small part of the hoarding problem that seems to have overtaken America.

 

ETA: I'll be curious if today's 20 somethings have a lower rate of hoarding in their middle and old age than the current group in that age bracket.

[umsami]

Just read an interesting book called "Coming Clean"

 

In it, she mentions that children of alcoholics are more likely to be hoarders.  She also brings up a genetic link.  

[Joanne]

Exclusively genetic? No.

 

Mental illness is heritable. How that predisposition manifests depends on context, culture, environment, trauma, coping skills, nutrition, brain chemistry, etc.

 

 

[Stacia]

Interesting article related to hoarding:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/15/let-go

[idnib]

I don't know the answer to the question but I was fascinated some time ago with "stuff" in different cultures, mostly due to this book in which people around the world empty out their houses for photographers.

 

I've spent a fair amount of time in developing nations and during the time I was taken by this book I did my own informal surveys. Even people I knew there who were wealthy and could afford lots of stuff had no idea hoarding was a thing, at all. Nobody had ever seen it or heard of it. 

 

I don't know if it's genetic or what, but perhaps whatever it is can be (partially?) negated by extended family living closely in housing, support systems, family care and companionship especially for the elderly, lack of marketing, etc.

[DesertBlossom]

The other interesting thing is what triggers hoarding.  Do you guys ever watch Hoarders, find yourself compelled to clean right after?

 

It's kind of mix being feeling like I suddenly need to deep clean everything and feeling like "meh, my house isn't that bad after all!"

[Ausmumof3]

I think hoarding is a normal human behaviour that facilitated survival in the past. Now we acquire way too much stuff and it becomes a problem. Because stuff can be made so cheaply and easily.

 

It would be interesting to discuss what counts as hoarding too. Lots of advice is if you haven't used it in a year get rid of it. To me that is just a wealthy mindset that is simply not possible in a lot of circumstances. If you've finished having kids pass on the kid stuff but otherwise, hang on to it.

[Katy]

I agree with Ausmumof3.  I think hoarding might be a normal response to certain situations that involve poverty and/or loss, because growing up in the south I saw it a LOT amongst poorer elderly people who lived during the depression. I have faith that we'll have whatever we need in the future so I don't feel the need to keep stuff "just in case." But then I grew up with parents that could provide whatever we needed and a significant amount of what we wanted, and married someone who could provide the same so I feel pretty blessed in general. I also think there might be some genetic component involved- lack of executive function skills that keep you from realizing you will never finish that unfinished project so you might as well scrap it, or anxiety for example.

[umsami]

I agree with Ausmumof3.  I think hoarding might be a normal response to certain situations that involve poverty and/or loss, because growing up in the south I saw it a LOT amongst poorer elderly people who lived during the depression. I have faith that we'll have whatever we need in the future so I don't feel the need to keep stuff "just in case." But then I grew up with parents that could provide whatever we needed and a significant amount of what we wanted, and married someone who could provide the same so I feel pretty blessed in general. I also think there might be some genetic component involved- lack of executive function skills that keep you from realizing you will never finish that unfinished project so you might as well scrap it, or anxiety for example.

 

My grandmother used to hoard soap and toilet paper...but that was it.  She was born at the turn of the century, and they had just had my Mom when the depression started.  She must have had 500+ bars of soap when she died.  It was always neatly organized in a cabinet, and it didn't impact one's ability to move throughout the house or anything.   So, I'm not sure if that was what we consider hoarding today. (Like the Collyer brother or what not.)

[PollyOR]

I'm so glad this topic came up again.  I am a hoarder and it really bugs me how bad our house looks.  I once found a chart that described hoarders on a scale of 1-5.  I would say that we are currently teetering close to a three.  We can walk through our house in the dark but every flat surface has piles.  I feel like it is closing in on me but I can't seem to get started.  It is so draining to make decisions about all of this "good" stuff.  I read the NewYorker article last night before going to bed and it helped me actually get started today.  Thank you!

 

Here's my confession for the day.  When Y2K was all the rage, my husband and I bought quite a bit of food for food storage.  DH put powdered milk in 3L soda bottles and sealed them.  I have a deep pantry and they were shoved to the very back of several shelves.  They were out of sight, out of mind ... and rock hard.  Today I dug them out of the cupboard and threw them away.  It was time to admit that even if there was an emergency there was no way we were going to drink milk made from 15 year old powdered milk. Yuck!

 

I'm not sure how much genes count in my situation.  I know my paternal grandparents struggled with hoarding when they were older.  In my mind they were quite poor - an outhouse for most of their lives.  I remember visiting their house in the late 60's and walking around stacks of newspapers.  My mom and dad struggle with too much stuff, but they both work hard to get rid of it.  I would say they are a level two on the scale.

[PollyOR]

After reading it, I realize we aren't quite as bad as I thought.  I still hate where we're at.

 

 

Hoarding scale 1-5

file:///home/chronos/u-0f992878eeb237e056fc0bd55b7dfc3bd5a5b1d7/Downloads/Hoarding%201-5%20(5).pdf

[countrygal]

I've started thinking it skips generations. My parents and DH's are hoarders. Both of us don't want to live like that, so we are purge-ers. Our kids though don't like getting rid of anything. And they get upset if I get rid of ANYTHING. So my guess is that they'll be hoarders because their mother is scarring them for life. They are young so I'm still hoping to teach them to keep what's best and important.

 

Probably part nature, part nurture/learned.