Moms of Teens: responsibility regarding phone calls

[mommytobees]

Hello!! 

 

I have a question and I do NOT want people to just agree with me! I need honest and objective answers to my question....if I don't like it, then that means I need to change something. Snicker, even if I *do* like it I may need to change somethings!

 

My divorce was final this past summer, but we've been separated for just over two years. The kids live with me and he just moved from SC to WA with the military.

 

Anyway... he is a narcissist. No, he isn't diagnosed, that would involve his cooperation. But, MY therapist thinks he is and the kid's therapist thinks he is. To say that he is a pain in the butt is to be nice. I am thankful every day that we lived hundreds of miles away from each other. Both of my children have their own cell phones. Both phones have their dad's phone number programed into their phones. If the phone is charged or not is NOT my responsibility, that is the child's responsibility. If I call them and they do not answer AND the reason is that the phone is dead, we have "issues". They are allowed to call their father whenever they need/want to call him. I never, ever restrict their phone access. Well, maybe in the middle of dinner, but that's just being polite to the people at the dinner table. Having said that about the phones....

 

On to my question:

 

When should children, boy aged 16 and girl aged 13, be expected to initiate a call to their father?

 

This is anything from the random "I just want to talk" phone calls to the "it is your birthday/holiday" phone calls.

 

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father every Sunday?

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father on Thanksgiving?

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father when they are AT HIS HOUSE?

 

At what stage are you reminding your children that they should call family, okay most of you aren't telling them to call their fathers, for _____ reason?

 

I have come to the realization that I am screwed (pardon the language). I cannot ever win. So, I am settling for LIVING and helping the kids to deal with their dad. Knowing that, I have limited my "co-parenting" to something that removes his control over my life. This has caused a whirl-wind of bad poo to come my way from him.

 

Just to add to the blah (I couldn't think of a good word) of this post, my kids don't want to call their dad. They will answer the phone when he calls and talk about whatever with him, but never about important things. This has been noticed by their father and my short comings as a mother have been duly noted and I have been chastised properly. For the record: I don't give a flying fiddle fart. His relationship with his kids is HIS problem, not mine.

 

What I do care about is that I am doing what is right as a mom. I was never told to call so-and-so for whatever reason. When I moved out of home, I just started to call different people as appropriate. When my daughter moves out of the house, I expect the same thing. Now, my son, who has Asperger's, I expect to have to remind him a few times, but then dignity will set in and he'll do it himself...when he is an adult and not a teenager. 

 

General hive thoughts?

Thanks,
Kris
 

[regentrude]

I am not in your situation, but I would let teens call their father whenever they have the desire to. That can be frequently, or it can be never; they are old enough to choose. That's between them and their father. If he thinks they call too infrequently, he can call them. 

 

It is not your job to micromanage when and how often they call. I do not believe nagging to call more often is productive or will put teens in the mood to do so.

 

[elegantlion]

My divorce was final at the end of October. ex calls ds, ds rarely initiates contact. There are some extenuating circumstances specific to our situation, and ds talks to him just fine, but isn't keen on reaching out, kwim. 

 

It bothers me that ex will call me if ds doesn't answer his phone - he doesn't always hear it. 

 

I'm of the opinion that ex made his bed and needs to accept that ds and he will not have the same relationship because of the circumstances of our divorce. 

 

Comments about my parenting would p*ss me off royally. I've reminded ex (who has narcissistic tendencies) that I have my hands full with my stuff and I'm no longer the overseer of all of his stuff - so in many aspects, he's on his own. 

 

Don't let him make you the bad guy. I'm sorry he's trying.  :grouphug:

[JustEm]

I don't have teens but have dealt with this with relatives who are divorced and such. I fully believe it is the parent's responsibility to initiate the relationship with the child.  Meaning if dad wants a relationship with his kids he can call them.  They should be under no obligation to call him.  If he wants to remind them that a call on the holidays or his birthday would be nice that is on him to do.  You do not need to be a part of their relationship with their father unless they want you to be.  So you can have a conversation with them and ask them if they'd like reminders like that from you or if they want to handle it on their own.  And support whichever answer they give you.  

[redsquirrel]

They are old enough that it is mostly up to them. No, I would not tell them to call on a weekly basis. Would I mention a birthday? yes. Would I mention a holiday call? yes. But that is it. I would mention it and then let it go. I would also mention calling grandparents or whatever.

 

And FTR, I remind my dh to call his parents on Thanksgiving and mother's day and father's day etc. But I don't nag or anything. And I certainly don't call them myself. I just say "Oh, don't forget to call your dad, it's his birthday" or something like that.

[bolt.]

You are right that his relationship with his kids is entirely his responsibility -- it's not your problem if he doesn't like their telephone habits. I wouldn't even bother listening to his flack about it. That would be a, "OK, then, goodbye now." -- moment in my world, basically as soon as he started up on that topic, or any other topic where he thinks he has the role of providing feedback to you about his dissatisfaction. You don't care what he thinks, and you don't need to 'donate' moments of your time towards his desire to talk at you anyways.

 

However, in order to be "raising them right" you would want to indicate to your kids just the general idea that on some occasions, people do phone their extended family out of a sense of good manners. Whenever you call your grandparents on a holiday, or whatever, you might say something like, "Today I am calling Grandma because it is traditional to make calls like that on this day. You might want to think about people you might want on your holiday calling list."

[catz]

Well, I have a 14 year old and a 10 year old with phones.  We have a charging station and both phones need to be plugged in before bed.  We pay for the phones so we can get a hold of them at activities.  If they do not get charged for some reason, there is trouble.  They are not allowed to have their phones up in their rooms really at all.  So I do generally enforce the charging and there are consequences if the phones are not charged.  I would be teaching good phone etiquette about returning messages and texts and phone calls within a reasonable amount of time.  I love the above idea about asking the kids if they want prompts.  I would honor their wishes on that.   I do know my own newly 14 year old boy does still want reminders on some things. 

 

 Him complaining about them not calling you when they're at his house is ridiculous.  He's a parent.  When he's on duty, he's on to enforce charging and proper use of the phones.  

 

[athomeontheprairie]

They are old enough that it is mostly up to them. No, I would not tell them to call on a weekly basis. Would I mention a birthday? yes. Would I mention a holiday call? yes. But that is it. I would mention it and then let it go. I would also mention calling grandparents or whatever.

 

And FTR, I remind my dh to call his parents on Thanksgiving and mother's day and father's day etc. But I don't nag or anything. And I certainly don't call them myself. I just say "Oh, don't forget to call your dad, it's his birthday" or something like that.

I am NOT in your situation, but this would be my advice. occasionally my husband or a father will remind us about a mother or mil's birthday. I am always so thankful for the reminder!

if they text, I would send out a happy Thanksgiving text messages, then if xdh wants to call he can follow up. but really at those ages it should be the adult initiating the relationship with the child and not the other way around. and it shouldn't be your responsibility. if he wants a relationship he needs to make time to call.

 

Also, hugs. it sounds like you are in a difficult position and trying to do what is absolutely best for your children. I applaud you.

[Mrs Mungo]

When should children, boy aged 16 and girl aged 13, be expected to initiate a call to their father?

 

This is anything from the random "I just want to talk" phone calls to the "it is your birthday/holiday" phone calls.

 

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father every Sunday?

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father on Thanksgiving?

No. They can call or not. Your ex can call them himself or not. I wouldn't expect children to act more like grownups/take more responsibility than a parent. If he wants to talk to them more, then he can call them more. It's on him to initiate contact if/when he wants more.

 

 

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father when they are AT HIS HOUSE?

What does this even mean? Why would they need to?

 

 

At what stage are you reminding your children that they should call family, okay most of you aren't telling them to call their fathers, for _____ reason?

My kids aren't generally initiating contact with extended family members, but they answer when someone initiates contact with them.

 

 

 

Just to add to the blah (I couldn't think of a good word) of this post, my kids don't want to call their dad. They will answer the phone when he calls and talk about whatever with him, but never about important things. This has been noticed by their father and my short comings as a mother have been duly noted and I have been chastised properly. For the record: I don't give a flying fiddle fart. His relationship with his kids is HIS problem, not mine.

How did he chastise you? Via phone? I would stop talking to him on the phone, you don't have to do that. Insist that you receive all communication in writing so that you can track attempts to continue to control your home and family life. It could be important down the road.

[QueenCat]

I'd say the kids should call when they want to call. You are showing that you are the bigger person here if you remind them that it's his birthday. Mine wouldn't remember my dh's birthday without a gentle reminder....... they know it's coming up and know the date but in the midst of every day life, they may forget. It really wouldn't hurt you to say "hey, it's your dad's birthday today".

[SparklyUnicorn]

You have zero responsibility to make sure they call their dad.  They are old enough to decide that.  If they were little little and needed help making the call that might be different.  If he has a problem with the number of calls he gets from them, he can take it up with them. 

 

I screen my calls.  If I don't want to talk to the caller, I don't answer the phone.  I don't feel bad about it.

 

 

[Snickerdoodle]

Why are you second guessing yourself?  Is this part of your pattern in the relationship?   

[bettyandbob]

I would insist on the father's contact with me be in writing. No phone contact, except extreme circumstances (death/injury/hospitalization of family member)

 

I would remind dc to call their father on his birthday, father's day, holidays. 

 

I expect phones to be charged because they are treated as safety devices and means of contact when dc are at their many activities. 

 

When I was a teen I did not initiate conversation with my father and I lived with him. XDH expecting his dc to initiate contact is ridiculous. If he wants to talk to them, he should tell them to expect a call every Sunday night (or Wed or other convenient night). 

[Joanne]

I AM in this situation and have been for nearly 10 years.

 

My kids were 9, 8 and 6 when we divorced. Phones were less common. Over the years, myself divorced from an NPD - both phone management and their relationship with their Dad was their responsibility. It would have been anyway, but realizing that I could never manage life to prevent a NPD from seeing things in a twisted manner was liberating; I stopped trying.

[T'smom]

I agree with the previous posters that you do not have to remind them to call. My MIL calls my husband and tells him to call his dad before birthdays/Father's Day, etc. FIL calls and tells him to call before MIL's birthday/Mothers Day/their anniversary, etc. I learn lots of lessons on how NOT to be as a MIL for them. (They call all three of their sons before the holidays like this- they have no idea if they would call on their own or not because they have never given them the chance.)

[Cinder]

When my parents divorced mom never made us call dad. She never prevented contact but she never required it. My dad lived fairly nearby so we saw him the standard 2 weekends per month. A couple times we kids initiated a visit to him--a couple times in about 8 years. None of us kids had a close relationship with our father and it's still that way today. I don't think he ever complained to my mom that we didn't call but I'm pretty sure he wished we did. But he never really called just to chat and see how we were. 

 

My personal opinion--their dad should call them. He needs to be responsible for that relationship.

[Ellie]

Just to add to the blah (I couldn't think of a good word) of this post, my kids don't want to call their dad. They will answer the phone when he calls and talk about whatever with him, but never about important things. This has been noticed by their father and my short comings as a mother have been duly noted and I have been chastised properly. For the record: I don't give a flying fiddle fart. His relationship with his kids is HIS problem, not mine.

 

 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I am not in your position, either; I'm just commenting based on things that my poor friends who have BTDT have said and experienced.

 

It will be in your best interest, and your children's, to be sure that you never say anything negative to them about him.

 

If you never suggest that your children call their father, *they* might find fault with you later, although it is true that children manage to find fault with their parents regardless of the situation. :glare: But still, if it is possible for you to do so, it would at least make *you* look better, lol.

 

But maybe on his birthday, or Father's Day, or Christmas (if y'all do Christmas at all), you could suggest that they call him. Other than that, I don't think you have any obligation to try to make them call.

 

Under no circumstances should you allow him to make snarky comments to you about the fact that his own children have no interest in talking to him.

[TranquilMind]

Hello!! 

 

I have a question and I do NOT want people to just agree with me! I need honest and objective answers to my question....if I don't like it, then that means I need to change something. Snicker, even if I *do* like it I may need to change somethings!

 

My divorce was final this past summer, but we've been separated for just over two years. The kids live with me and he just moved from SC to WA with the military.

 

Anyway... he is a narcissist. No, he isn't diagnosed, that would involve his cooperation. But, MY therapist thinks he is and the kid's therapist thinks he is. To say that he is a pain in the butt is to be nice. I am thankful every day that we lived hundreds of miles away from each other. Both of my children have their own cell phones. Both phones have their dad's phone number programed into their phones. If the phone is charged or not is NOT my responsibility, that is the child's responsibility. If I call them and they do not answer AND the reason is that the phone is dead, we have "issues". They are allowed to call their father whenever they need/want to call him. I never, ever restrict their phone access. Well, maybe in the middle of dinner, but that's just being polite to the people at the dinner table. Having said that about the phones....

 

On to my question:

 

When should children, boy aged 16 and girl aged 13, be expected to initiate a call to their father?

 

This is anything from the random "I just want to talk" phone calls to the "it is your birthday/holiday" phone calls.

 

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father every Sunday?

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father on Thanksgiving?

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father when they are AT HIS HOUSE?

 

At what stage are you reminding your children that they should call family, okay most of you aren't telling them to call their fathers, for _____ reason?

 

I have come to the realization that I am screwed (pardon the language). I cannot ever win. So, I am settling for LIVING and helping the kids to deal with their dad. Knowing that, I have limited my "co-parenting" to something that removes his control over my life. This has caused a whirl-wind of bad poo to come my way from him.

 

Just to add to the blah (I couldn't think of a good word) of this post, my kids don't want to call their dad. They will answer the phone when he calls and talk about whatever with him, but never about important things. This has been noticed by their father and my short comings as a mother have been duly noted and I have been chastised properly. For the record: I don't give a flying fiddle fart. His relationship with his kids is HIS problem, not mine.

 

What I do care about is that I am doing what is right as a mom. I was never told to call so-and-so for whatever reason. When I moved out of home, I just started to call different people as appropriate. When my daughter moves out of the house, I expect the same thing. Now, my son, who has Asperger's, I expect to have to remind him a few times, but then dignity will set in and he'll do it himself...when he is an adult and not a teenager. 

 

General hive thoughts?

Thanks,

Kris

 

Well, I'm married, so not an issue, but there is an etiquette for this: it is incumbent upon parents to initiate calls to their minor children, especially the younger they are.

 

When you are an adult, and your parents grow older, then you initiate as much as receive.   When they are really old, you call them every day just to make sure they got up that day.  ;)

 

This is on your husband to create the relationship with his kids, however he can.  It is not up to you to force the kids to initiate, though it would be kind of you to remind them now and then, or ask if they have talked to their dad. 

 

Things change when parents divorce.  That's just the truth.  He is not going to have the same relationship he did with them when he was present.  Period. 

[TranquilMind]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I am not in your position, either; I'm just commenting based on things that my poor friends who have BTDT have said and experienced.

 

It will be in your best interest, and your children's, to be sure that you never say anything negative to them about him.

 

If you never suggest that your children call their father, *they* might find fault with you later, although it is true that children manage to find fault with their parents regardless of the situation. :glare: But still, if it is possible for you to do so, it would at least make *you* look better, lol.

 

But maybe on his birthday, or Father's Day, or Christmas (if y'all do Christmas at all), you could suggest that they call him. Other than that, I don't think you have any obligation to try to make them call.

 

Under no circumstances should you allow him to make snarky comments to you about the fact that his own children have no interest in talking to him.

Agree....never, ever EVER say negative things about him. It will be hard. Vent to your female friends, not your kids (or where they can hear)!  This is really important, and they will honor you for it one day, as they will come to their own conclusions, untainted by your feelings.  You probably know this already, anyway. 

[TranquilMind]

When my parents divorced mom never made us call dad. She never prevented contact but she never required it. My dad lived fairly nearby so we saw him the standard 2 weekends per month. A couple times we kids initiated a visit to him--a couple times in about 8 years. None of us kids had a close relationship with our father and it's still that way today. I don't think he ever complained to my mom that we didn't call but I'm pretty sure he wished we did. But he never really called just to chat and see how we were. 

 

My personal opinion--their dad should call them. He needs to be responsible for that relationship.

Absolutely, 100% correct. 

[maize]

If dad wants to talk to them he can call. You could have a one-time conversation with the kids about how calling on dad's birthday and father's day would be appropriate and thoughtful, but you are under no obligation to remind them.

 

Other holidays are of course great times to connect with family, but if it is the parent who wants to connect the parent can initiate contact.

 

You are not responsible for making sure the kids' phones are charged or that they answer.

[Amy in NH]

 

His relationship with his kids is HIS problem, not mine.

 

 

So long as you do not impede their ability to contact him, take his calls, or visit him when it is his scheduled visitation, what you wrote above is most definitely the truth.  Do not take responsibility for his shortcomings by trying to force your kids to have more of a relationship with him than they want.

[SKL]

I think I'd tell my teens and my ex that they needed to discuss (with each other) how they wanted that part of their relationship to work.  And I'd stay out of it.  I might offer organizational suggestions such as calendar notes so they don't forget and offend etc.

[kewb]

For certain the 16 year old is old enough to decide what kind of relationship they want with their father.  The 13 year old should be reminded to call.

 

No, it is not your responsibility to tell them to call every sunday, on holidays and birthdays, or when they are at his house.  Me, being who I am, would probably remind them to call on his birthday and holidays because that is simply teaching them how to be decent human beings.  I would not feel obligated.

 

However, as their mother I do feel it is your responsibility to try to foster a positive attitude their father.  He may be a narcissistic dead beat but he is their father.  That does not mean you have to sugar coat everything and make him out to be some wonderful human being but you shouldn't bad mouth him and you should, when you think of it, remind them to call in the spirit of family harmony.

 

This positive attitude does not mean you take any poo from him.  He is the parent/adult and if he does not like the relationship he has with his children then it is on him to change it.  You are well within your rights to tell him to address phone call issues directly with his children.  You are not going to get in the middle of it.  It is his relationship not yours.

[SparklyUnicorn]

And you know, not everyone likes talking on the phone.  No clue if your kids like it or not, but I hate talking on the phone.  My dad does not take it personally that I don't call much because he knows I don't like talking on the phone. I can't imagine being forced.  It wouldn't be enjoyable and I'd probably end up resenting my parent(s).

 

 

[Wheres Toto]

I divorced my daughter's father when she was 8.  She had a cell phone at that age so she could call either parent without having to ask permission or disclose what she wanted to talk about (honestly, most of the time it was calling me when she was at his house but it could have gone either way).  

 

I did not take any responsibility for pushing her to call her dad for any reason.  If he wanted to talk to her, he could call her.  If he had a problem with her not answering the phone, he needed to take it up with her.  I certainly wouldn't get involved if she wasn't charging her phone while at his house.

 

When she was younger I MIGHT remind her of when it was his birthday if she was at my house. (He didn't return the favor).

 

Our situation was a little different because I had joint custody so she spent quite a bit of time with him.

 

I hate talking on the phone and so does my daughter.  It's not quite as bad being on the receiving end as it is to have to initiate.

 

[Katy]

Not a divorced parent, but my parents were divorced.  My dad called once a week, on Sunday nights while I lived at home.  We were allowed to call him whenever we wanted. 

 

When we went to college it was more a give and take situation, where if I didn't call him I might not hear from him for a few weeks.

 

 

I would absolutely not make my children call their dad if I was in that situation.  He's the adult and it's his responsibility to maintain a relationship with them, even if they are kids.  There's only a short time that you get to have your whole world revolve around you, and I'd want to try and protect that for them.

[mommytobees]

So, I'm going to respond in batches..... Thank you all so much! 

 

 

It is not your job to micromanage when and how often they call. I do not believe nagging to call more often is productive or will put teens in the mood to do so.

 

This is SUCH a good way to put this!  I'm copying the sentence and keeping it on my desktop (computer)...or a slightly paraphrased version of it:

 

It is not my job to micromanage when and how often they call.

 

I don't know that I'll say that to him.

 

 

 

Comments about my parenting would p*ss me off royally. I've reminded ex (who has narcissistic tendencies) that I have my hands full with my stuff and I'm no longer the overseer of all of his stuff - so in many aspects, he's on his own. 

 

Don't let him make you the bad guy. I'm sorry he's trying.  :grouphug:

 

I'm sorry he isn't trying anymore either. He has a new girlfriend and they just moved together and have set a wedding date. He expects me to be jealous and care. I'm not and don't.

 

 

I don't have teens but have dealt with this with relatives who are divorced and such. I fully believe it is the parent's responsibility to initiate the relationship with the child.  Meaning if dad wants a relationship with his kids he can call them.  They should be under no obligation to call him.  If he wants to remind them that a call on the holidays or his birthday would be nice that is on him to do.  You do not need to be a part of their relationship with their father unless they want you to be.  So you can have a conversation with them and ask them if they'd like reminders like that from you or if they want to handle it on their own.  And support whichever answer they give you.  

 

Both kids have said that they do NOT want reminders, but I do like the idea.

 

 

You are right that his relationship with his kids is entirely his responsibility -- it's not your problem if he doesn't like their telephone habits. I wouldn't even bother listening to his flack about it. That would be a, "OK, then, goodbye now." -- moment in my world, basically as soon as he started up on that topic, or any other topic where he thinks he has the role of providing feedback to you about his dissatisfaction. You don't care what he thinks, and you don't need to 'donate' moments of your time towards his desire to talk at you anyways.

 

However, in order to be "raising them right" you would want to indicate to your kids just the general idea that on some occasions, people do phone their extended family out of a sense of good manners. Whenever you call your grandparents on a holiday, or whatever, you might say something like, "Today I am calling Grandma because it is traditional to make calls like that on this day. You might want to think about people you might want on your holiday calling list."

 

Oh, I hand the phone off when I make my "holiday calls" and expect them to make some conversation, which means 25 words or less from my son and 30 minutes later from my daughter. 

 

As for him....I'll respond to that down-post.

 

 

 

 Him complaining about them not calling you when they're at his house is ridiculous.  He's a parent.  When he's on duty, he's on to enforce charging and proper use of the phones.  

 

Oh no, he doesn't complain that they don't call me. He complains that they don't call him when they are at his home and he is at work.

 

 

I am NOT in your situation, but this would be my advice. occasionally my husband or a father will remind us about a mother or mil's birthday. I am always so thankful for the reminder!
if they text, I would send out a happy Thanksgiving text messages, then if xdh wants to call he can follow up. but really at those ages it should be the adult initiating the relationship with the child and not the other way around. and it shouldn't be your responsibility. if he wants a relationship he needs to make time to call.

Also, hugs. it sounds like you are in a difficult position and trying to do what is absolutely best for your children. I applaud you.

 

Thank you! I figured I would get support here, but more important, good mothering advice!

 

No. They can call or not. Your ex can call them himself or not. I wouldn't expect children to act more like grownups/take more responsibility than a parent. If he wants to talk to them more, then he can call them more. It's on him to initiate contact if/when he wants more.

What does this even mean? Why would they need to?
 
How did he chastise you? Via phone? I would stop talking to him on the phone, you don't have to do that. Insist that you receive all communication in writing so that you can track attempts to continue to control your home and family life. It could be important down the road.

 

What a great way to put this (the bolded part)!!  You know how sometimes you are WAY TOO CLOSE to a problem and you can't see the whole thing....that's me! I don't feel like I am doing anything wrong and neither of the therapists think I am, but his (bleep) little annoying voice has me questioning my sanity!

 

As for your "what is this mean" question: He gets mad when the kids do not call him, even when they are at his house visiting and he is at work. (insert eye roll).

 

And, yes, he chastises me via the phone. I get a "you will not" or a "you will" or a "_____" telling me all about my faulting parenting.  For the record: he is full of crap. I am a *great* mom and he is simply trying to cut me down several pegs. He gets a "I'm sorry you see it this way. I don't agree with you, but you are welcome to have your opinion." At this stage, he refuses to use email to contact me. When I email him, he calls me. If I refuse to answer, he calls the kids and demands to talk to me. Both kids have gotten tired of it and I only refuse to answer when I'm in class. On a fun note, my ringtone for him is Darth Vader's theme song.

 

But, let me add.... I am learning how to handle these phone calls and practice helps! He is like that 2-year-old toddler throwing a fit on the floor. If you feed the monster, it gets bigger. If you "uh huh, okay, and I'm sorry you feel that way" the monster, it gets irritated and hangs up on you. 

 

I'd say the kids should call when they want to call. You are showing that you are the bigger person here if you remind them that it's his birthday. Mine wouldn't remember my dh's birthday without a gentle reminder....... they know it's coming up and know the date but in the midst of every day life, they may forget. It really wouldn't hurt you to say "hey, it's your dad's birthday today".

 

The immature part of me does NOT want to be the bigger person. I can say that here, because I do NOT say that at home. Although, they can't forget their dad's birthday...it is a few days after daughter's birthday.

 

 

You have zero responsibility to make sure they call their dad.  They are old enough to decide that.  If they were little little and needed help making the call that might be different.  If he has a problem with the number of calls he gets from them, he can take it up with them. 

 

I screen my calls.  If I don't want to talk to the caller, I don't answer the phone.  I don't feel bad about it.

 

Thank you, I kind of agree with you.

 

More responses to come!

[Elisabet1]

What does your court order and state law say? It is possible that you are expected to make sure that contact happens. 

[Joanne]

OP,

 

Repeat after me "I will not accept your comments on mothering. Our communication will be limited to logistical arrangements regarding the children."

 

AND

 

"I do not answer calls on demand. If I do not answer, do not call the children. You may leave a message or email me."

 

DO NOT GIVE REASONS OR JUSTICATIONS for these changes.

[mommytobees]

Second batch...

 

Why are you second guessing yourself?  Is this part of your pattern in the relationship?   

 

YES!! This is a HUGE pattern in the relationship!!  This is where my own therapy has helped! I started as a way to figure out how to best help the kids and through the process I've discovered how much of myself I lost due to him and that marriage. I never realized that the me I knew wasn't there. So, consequently, I have doubted myself. 

 

In this specific topic, everyone has been telling me that it is NOT normal for a teenager to "step up and initiate a relationship" with their parent. That is the parent's job. But, I really wanted some impartial opinions...and that is something I have always gotten from the homeschool boards (both this one and the SL one). Thank you for that!

 

 

I AM in this situation and have been for nearly 10 years.

My kids were 9, 8 and 6 when we divorced. Phones were less common. Over the years, myself divorced from an NPD - both phone management and their relationship with their Dad was their responsibility. It would have been anyway, but realizing that I could never manage life to prevent a NPD from seeing things in a twisted manner was liberating; I stopped trying.

 

Joanne, I so hoped that you would respond!! I only just realized that I can't win. That was SUCH a liberating realization!! I can't win. So, why try! I will finish raising my children and I will finish my education and I will live my life! Yay!

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

It will be in your best interest, and your children's, to be sure that you never say anything negative to them about him.

 

 

...

 

 

Thank you for the hugs! And, I never, ever, ever say anything bad about their dad.  I will, however, NOT lie to my children. I will answer in an age correct manner. My daughter (13) is smart, like gifted smart and more importantly is a people person and notices things. She asks questions that are way over her maturity level because she recognizes there is a problem. I have even resorted to telling her that I will not answer that question until she is 18....I think she has a book that she is filling with those questions.

 

 

Well, I'm married, so not an issue, but there is an etiquette for this: it is incumbent upon parents to initiate calls to their minor children, especially the younger they are.

 

When you are an adult, and your parents grow older, then you initiate as much as receive.   When they are really old, you call them every day just to make sure they got up that day.  ;)

 

This is on your husband to create the relationship with his kids, however he can.  It is not up to you to force the kids to initiate, though it would be kind of you to remind them now and then, or ask if they have talked to their dad. 

 

Things change when parents divorce.  That's just the truth.  He is not going to have the same relationship he did with them when he was present.  Period. 

 

Oh, this is what I am going to give to my children. Thank you!! This is perfect. It puts the responsibility where it belongs, on their father, but it also challenges them. You want to be an adult, start initiating the calls. 

 

 

Agree....never, ever EVER say negative things about him. It will be hard. Vent to your female friends, not your kids (or where they can hear)!  This is really important, and they will honor you for it one day, as they will come to their own conclusions, untainted by your feelings.  You probably know this already, anyway. 

 

I never, ever say bad things about their father when they can even overhear it. Ever. I will not lie to them, though. 

 

....

[mommytobees]

 

If dad wants to talk to them he can call. You could have a one-time conversation with the kids about how calling on dad's birthday and father's day would be appropriate and thoughtful, but you are under no obligation to remind them.

 

Other holidays are of course great times to connect with family, but if it is the parent who wants to connect the parent can initiate contact.

 

You are not responsible for making sure the kids' phones are charged or that they answer.

 

That is a good idea. I hadn't yet decided how I wanted to deal with this, but I think I'll have one conversation with each of them and then leave it at that.

 

 

 

His relationship with his kids is HIS problem, not mine.

 

 

So long as you do not impede their ability to contact him, take his calls, or visit him when it is his scheduled visitation, what you wrote above is most definitely the truth.  Do not take responsibility for his shortcomings by trying to force your kids to have more of a relationship with him than they want.

 

 

Nope. That I will not do either. They may call him whenever they want (except maybe at the dinner table...you have to leave or wait). They cannot take his calls during school (I had to stop homeschooling), but that's not my rule! They visit him whenever he wants them unless it interferes with school. This Christmas is mine (we don't split Christmas break, just get every other year) so the CO says I get the whole thing. That isn't great for the kids though, because their schools do not have spring break at the same time (don't get me started on AZ school districts). They would end up going a year between visits with him. So, I offered 7 days of the break after Christmas. I don't know if they are going yet; he doesn't want to spend the money if they are "only going to be there for 7 days". He thinks they should come for the whole break. 

 

I think I learned my lesson on being nice.

 

Bolded part..... I have learned to stop taking responsibility for his shortcomings. I have learned to stop covering his shortcomings. It hurts my Mommy-heart to see them hurt, but they have a great mom and I parent them and support them! (pardon my horn tooting!) But, I hadn't thought about trying to force my kids to have more of a relationship with him than they want.

 

Is that what I would be doing by requesting them to call him?

Yes.

 

Thank you. I love getting objective opinions.

 

 

I'd encourage the 13 year old. I'd keep an eye on whether or not she'd called lately, and not require her to call, but just gently bring it up. "I noticed you haven't called Dad lately..." It could be a good conversation opener about why she's not calling Dad, kwim ? Or it could just remind her to call.

 

I'd let the 16 year old decide for himself.

 

The only exception would be if the children not calling, or not calling on an agreed schedule could impact on you legally. Then I would require short, regular calls.

 

At a certain point, parents reap what they sow. If your children's father is a narcissist, he probably isn't expending a whole lot of energy on relationship building. If you don't build the relationship, you won't get the calls.

 

No legal requirement for them to call. My lawyer made sure that was excluded, after all they are teenagers and that shouldn't be needed.

 

He isn't giving them his energy. I think you are right with your thoughts.

 

 

I think I'd tell my teens and my ex that they needed to discuss (with each other) how they wanted that part of their relationship to work.  And I'd stay out of it.  I might offer organizational suggestions such as calendar notes so they don't forget and offend etc.

 

This is what I've been doing so far and then the little insidious bug made me self-doubt. I also feel bad because he is berating them for not calling. I want to protect them....

 

 

 

However, as their mother I do feel it is your responsibility to try to foster a positive attitude their father.  He may be a narcissistic dead beat but he is their father.  That does not mean you have to sugar coat everything and make him out to be some wonderful human being but you shouldn't bad mouth him and you should, when you think of it, remind them to call in the spirit of family harmony.

 

This positive attitude does not mean you take any poo from him.  He is the parent/adult and if he does not like the relationship he has with his children then it is on him to change it.  You are well within your rights to tell him to address phone call issues directly with his children.  You are not going to get in the middle of it.  It is his relationship not yours.

 

Bolded: THIS is why I'm asking.

 

Oh, I don't take any poo from him.... well, I guess you could say that I listen to him mouth off and then give him the canned responses of, "Oh" and "uh huh" and "I'm sorry you feel that way" and "I don't agree with you." I'm trying hard for the water-off-duck's-back mentality.

 

And you know, not everyone likes talking on the phone.  No clue if your kids like it or not, but I hate talking on the phone.  My dad does not take it personally that I don't call much because he knows I don't like talking on the phone. I can't imagine being forced.  It wouldn't be enjoyable and I'd probably end up resenting my parent(s).

 

Oh, that's the worst of it!!  My son (16) *hates* the phone...with a passion! My daughter (13) loves the phone...with equal passion. Neither like to talk to him.

 

Thank you again, everyone, even those I didn't specifically respond directly to. You've given me lots to think about and a good indication that I was already on the right path.

 

Kris

[mommytobees]

What does your court order and state law say? It is possible that you are expected to make sure that contact happens. 

 

Nope, since they were teens when we divorced my lawyer made sure this was excluded from our orders.

 

Kris

[mommytobees]

OP,

 

Repeat after me "I will not accept your comments on mothering. Our communication will be limited to logistical arrangements regarding the children."

 

AND

 

"I do not answer calls on demand. If I do not answer, do not call the children. You may leave a message or email me."

 

DO NOT GIVE REASONS OR JUSTICATIONS for these changes.

 

Oohoooo!!  Repeating and jotting down. 

 

I will admit to allowing him to tell me about how bad I was at having conversations and talking to him in a "proper" manner yesterday.... I was so stunned at what he was saying that I gave him time to continue. He got really mad at me though; I started laughing. It was not funny......but it was really really funny!!  He hung up on me. I laughed for another 10 minutes.

 

The kids actually already put a stop to him calling them to get ahold of me. My son told him to stop and then hung up on him. He didn't call son again to contact me. My daughter finally told him off a few weeks ago when he interrupted her phone call with her best friend, who lives in Japan and is very hard to get time to chat with. 

 

Thank you for your advice!

Kris

[Elisabet1]

Sorry, as I have not read the whole thread, so take my advice with a grain of salt as I do not know everything said and don't have time to read everything....but..

 

if the kids are just being lazy and don't feel like bothering, I would remind them to call, remind them to charge, and so on. If he is rotten to the kids and they actually do not want to speak to him, and they are within reason, then I would let it go. Remember that teens will often be happy to cut off communication with another parent. I understand he is a jerk and all, but..is he enough of a jerk to justify how they are behaving? Because it should be pretty bad before you become compliant in their unwillingness to make an effort. I would not, for the most part, trust a 13 yr old to make all the effort in relationships (other than friends) that they need to (i.e. write a card to grandma, send thank you notes, take time to talk to the parents on a regular basis, etc). I think kids would rather live their own lives and do what is fun than have to take time out to deal with mom and dad. So, unless something were seriously wrong, I think I would remind the kids and make them do it.

[Joanne]

Sorry, as I have not read the whole thread, so take my advice with a grain of salt as I do not know everything said and don't have time to read everything....but..

 

if the kids are just being lazy and don't feel like bothering, I would remind them to call, remind them to charge, and so on. If he is rotten to the kids and they actually do not want to speak to him, and they are within reason, then I would let it go. Remember that teens will often be happy to cut off communication with another parent. I understand he is a jerk and all, but..is he enough of a jerk to justify how they are behaving? Because it should be pretty bad before you become compliant in their unwillingness to make an effort. I would not, for the most part, trust a 13 yr old to make all the effort in relationships (other than friends) that they need to (i.e. write a card to grandma, send thank you notes, take time to talk to the parents on a regular basis, etc). I think kids would rather live their own lives and do what is fun than have to take time out to deal with mom and dad. So, unless something were seriously wrong, I think I would remind the kids and make them do it.

 

The problem with comparing this to grandma, thank you notes etc is that a divorce and co-parenting after is a unique and specific situation. Generalizing to it is limited in applicability.

 

In THIS case, I take the OP at her word that ex is NPD. In that case, the reminders are not expected to teach, train, or develop children but to manage, indirectly, the standards of a person with disordered thinking. The OP has lived like that for years and should be encouraged to be free from efforts to satisfy his demands.

 

I also disagree that teens are happy to cut off from a parent. And I don't think that her decision on this should be tied to his behavior at all.

[Ravin]

Given the described situation, I would remind (require) them to keep their phones charged and on if it says in the parenting plan that you are required to make them available for phone contact.

 

Unless it says you have to initiate a call, I wouldn't. People I know who have successfully dealt with co-parents with this type of personality have done so by sticking to the letter of the law and keeping solid boundaries otherwise.

 

One friend actually made all contact with her ex on her part via email. This gave her a running written record that eliminates a lot of the BS.

 

Requiring them to be available when he calls is not unreasonable. Requiring them to initiate the calls?

 

My girlfriend's kids (who live primarily with their dad) call and text her because they want to. They want to because she has fostered a good relationship as a non-primary-caregiver parent.

[mommytobees]

Requiring them to be available when he calls is not unreasonable. Requiring them to initiate the calls?

 

My girlfriend's kids (who live primarily with their dad) call and text her because they want to. They want to because she has fostered a good relationship as a non-primary-caregiver parent.

 

Thank you for your input. I'm feeling very strong about the decisions I've made so far and most of the advice I"ve been given has supported that.

 

Kris

[mommytobees]

I think kids would rather live their own lives and do what is fun than have to take time out to deal with mom and dad. So, unless something were seriously wrong, I think I would remind the kids and make them do it.

 

Thank you for taking the time to give me your thoughts.

 

Thankfully, I have a good and rather open relationship with my kids; they talk to me. At this point, reminding the kids to call their dad is tantamount to nagging. Someone said, upthread, that I can't force a relationship more than they want to have with their dad. And...the more I think about it, the more I agree with that statement. Both kids have said they love the stability and routine I give, but I can't nag.

 

Kris

[Lady Florida.]

If they were younger children, I'd say it's up to you to help them stay in contact with their father. However, they're old enough to make that choice for themselves. I wouldn't restrict it (not that you are) but I wouldn't force them. You're right - their relationship with their father is theirs. As long as you aren't preventing them from talking to him, you don't need to be involved.

[lllll]

..

[Spryte]

I've been here - both as the kid with divorced parents, and as the parent of a kiddo with separate parents/households (now an adult).  My take on it is that I reminded the (now adult) kid to call on birthdays, Mother's Day, and holidays.  Birthdays are easily forgotten, and holidays, well, it's easy to get distracted and forget to make important calls.  I feel better for having made that small reminder.  I don't remind him now, unless we are spending the day together, because he's really an adult.  But as a teen - yes, I tried to remind him.  

 

Funny thing - my mother, divorced for 25 years - still mentions my father's birthday, and that I might want to call, on his birthday.  :)  I just smile.  She does it because she cares for *me* not ending up in the doghouse, it's not really a favor to him.  I think it's sweet.  And funny, because she is notorious for forgetting birthdays, but she never forgets this one.  

[Plateau Mama]

They are old enough that it is mostly up to them. No, I would not tell them to call on a weekly basis. Would I mention a birthday? yes. Would I mention a holiday call? yes. But that is it. I would mention it and then let it go. I would also mention calling grandparents or whatever.

 

And FTR, I remind my dh to call his parents on Thanksgiving and mother's day and father's day etc. But I don't nag or anything. And I certainly don't call them myself. I just say "Oh, don't forget to call your dad, it's his birthday" or something like that.

This exactly.

 

My older kids are 12 & 14. I remind them to call so and so but I never make them. If their dad wants to talk to them then he can dial the d@&n phone.

[Tsuga]

I am in a very similar situation, narcissist, military and all! My children are quite a bit younger, however, which changes my level of responsibility. However, here's what I've said:

 

1. Ultimately, his relationship with the kids is HIS responsibility. IF he gives me a schedule, THEN I will be sure to have the kids by the phone, phone charged, so that they will always pick up. (But he doesn't.)

 

2. Because I love my children, who are still small (2nd grade and kindergarten), I do remind them to call twice a week and I let him know when the call times will be. However that is for my kids, because I want them to keep up a relationship with their dad, not because I have a responsibility to him. As they get older, I will stop reminding so much.

 

3. I will not be responsible for the fact that half the time people don't pick up. This is the real world and not some narcissist's fantasy and people miss calls all the freaking time for a bazillion reasons that have nothing to do with mind games.

 

The mantras given earlier sound so much like the ones I use. Do they send these guys to narcissist school or something?
"I will discuss the parenting plan but I will not discuss more." "Just a reminder, I do record our conversations and yes, it is for court." <--Because he was screaming at me when I tried to, for example, arrange drop-off points for a birthday party.

 

Normally that would be set but he's military so I have to accept more negotiation around a less predictable military schedule. It's Army Ex-Wife Strong.

 

 

Hello!! 

 

I have a question and I do NOT want people to just agree with me! I need honest and objective answers to my question....if I don't like it, then that means I need to change something. Snicker, even if I *do* like it I may need to change somethings!

 

My divorce was final this past summer, but we've been separated for just over two years. The kids live with me and he just moved from SC to WA with the military.

 

Anyway... he is a narcissist. No, he isn't diagnosed, that would involve his cooperation. But, MY therapist thinks he is and the kid's therapist thinks he is. To say that he is a pain in the butt is to be nice. I am thankful every day that we lived hundreds of miles away from each other. Both of my children have their own cell phones. Both phones have their dad's phone number programed into their phones. If the phone is charged or not is NOT my responsibility, that is the child's responsibility. If I call them and they do not answer AND the reason is that the phone is dead, we have "issues". They are allowed to call their father whenever they need/want to call him. I never, ever restrict their phone access. Well, maybe in the middle of dinner, but that's just being polite to the people at the dinner table. Having said that about the phones....

 

On to my question:

 

When should children, boy aged 16 and girl aged 13, be expected to initiate a call to their father?

 

This is anything from the random "I just want to talk" phone calls to the "it is your birthday/holiday" phone calls.

 

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father every Sunday?

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father on Thanksgiving?

Is it my responsibility as a mother to tell my children to call their father when they are AT HIS HOUSE?

 

At what stage are you reminding your children that they should call family, okay most of you aren't telling them to call their fathers, for _____ reason?

 

I have come to the realization that I am screwed (pardon the language). I cannot ever win. So, I am settling for LIVING and helping the kids to deal with their dad. Knowing that, I have limited my "co-parenting" to something that removes his control over my life. This has caused a whirl-wind of bad poo to come my way from him.

 

Just to add to the blah (I couldn't think of a good word) of this post, my kids don't want to call their dad. They will answer the phone when he calls and talk about whatever with him, but never about important things. This has been noticed by their father and my short comings as a mother have been duly noted and I have been chastised properly. For the record: I don't give a flying fiddle fart. His relationship with his kids is HIS problem, not mine.

 

What I do care about is that I am doing what is right as a mom. I was never told to call so-and-so for whatever reason. When I moved out of home, I just started to call different people as appropriate. When my daughter moves out of the house, I expect the same thing. Now, my son, who has Asperger's, I expect to have to remind him a few times, but then dignity will set in and he'll do it himself...when he is an adult and not a teenager. 

 

General hive thoughts?

Thanks,
Kris

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

I vote that a weekly call to anyone you don't live with is more than sufficient. If your kids haven't spoken to their father in a week, require them to call. If he's calling them all week, there's no reason to insist they initiate a call.

 

I'd be careful to be very diplomatic when talking about him to the children and never indulge in trash-talk while they're listening. That, and a weekly call should meet your communication obligations. If he blames you for blocking communication after you've done this, that's his stress to deal with, not yours.

[Cera]

I am in a very similar situation (down to the narcissistic military ex).  If he wants to talk to the kids he needs to call them and initiate that.  He is the adult and their relationship is not my responsibility.  I do have the kids call him on special occasions (holidays, birthdays, etc).  

 

I have told him he is to call no more than once per day and is to be kind and pleasant to the kids, not trying to control or manipulate them when he does.  If he follows that rule I will encourage (but not force) them to answer and talk to him.  I also expect that phone calls will be kept to reasonable times (not during dinner or after 8 when they are getting ready for bed).  

 

I have told him, and the kids know, that they are welcome to call or text their father any time they want.  At this point they don't seem interested in initiating contact with him.