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Joanne

JAWM rant. My dd's SAT scores (or ACT for that matter)..........

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:grouphug:  This sounds so frustrating for you and your daughter.

 

 

(I know there are no specific 'rules' about posting in the college sub forum but I always perceive it as a place to read practical advice and chat about colleges--I don't think I have ever seen a jawm post here.That's probably why you have been given a lot of advice and maybe the chat forum would have been a better place for general hugs. Posters don't have to have opinions or knowledge of SAT/ACT to give a hug. I don't think posting it here was wrong, but this sub forum always has a lot of good practical advice and thoughts presented and I think that's where all the posters were coming from.)

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Hi Joanne ,

Does your daughter know what type of courses she'd like to study at college? I was a bit surprised to read your post, lol, I picture your dd as still being a little girl!

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Something else occurred to me - it is just a thought and might not be JAWM enough. However, I really do not intend it in a negative way so just disregard if you want.

 

If I was an admission officer low test scores might almost be better than average ones for the applicant:

 

Let's say for a competitive college I look at test scores that are lower than what I would want in combination with good grades. I might assume that the good grades are due to either the student studying very hard, the grades being inflated, or the classes being easy. In all these cases I might feel that the student would not do well in a competitive school as there is a limit to how much studying can be done. So I might not accept this student as the course work might be too difficult.

 

However, if I saw low test scores in combination with good grades, references etc. I might think that the discrepancy can't be just due to loads of studying, easier classes, etc. especially if there are indications that grades are not inflated/classes easy. I would be more likely to think that the student is just not a good test taker, especially with the ACT/SAT format. So in that case I would probably largely ignore the scores and put more emphasis on other application factors.

 

Of course I am not saying that admission officers work like this but I do think there is a chance that some competitive colleges would put less emphasis on the test scores in such cases.

 

I am not quite sure right now exactly how your daughter is schooled but I would try to put as much emphasis on her standing in class compared to other students, objective references etc. as possible.

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Unfair, just unfair. I know my ds will not test well. Many of his peers have taken practice SATs since 6th grade, and many 9th graders take expensive SAT prep courses. So the playing field is skewed towards good multi choice test takers AND those with generous financial resources.

 

If the tests were like French bacs, I would find them more reasonable, but multiple choice test questions can be so random.

 

In part, I blame US News & World Report, because their college rankings rely so heavily on test scores that colleges are 'forced' to put a lot of emphasis on those scores.

 

ime, peers who take many practice tests are practicing test taking skills.  That lessens the test anxiety over time.

 

I'm finding the expensive group SAT courses not worth it compared to individual prep...if I was in Manhattan I'd probably think otherwise, but out here....better off investing in test prep books.  That doesn't require generous financial resources, merely a library card and the ability to walk or bike over to the library.  Its less than a dollar to own a used prep book, its free to borrow. The internet has many free vocab study sources, however it takes self-discipline & motivation to use them wisely. The last kid who scored a perfect 800/800/800 at the local high school did not accelerate math at all; he put his time into self-study test prep.  Worked too...got into NYU for math. I wouldn't say money buys test scores at that level; its effort. Many students get their spring jr year score back and put the effort in over the summer, seeing scores a 100 pts higher in the fall exam.

 

I'm not getting the impression that SAT/ACT scores are going to hold people back from nonIvys....but I do hear the quality of the high school is going to be considered in the admission process.. for ex:.one can have a perfect 4.0 gpa  and they'll still have difficulty with math, and that shows in both the SAT or ACT test and the first year of college grades (unless they are going into something that doesn't require the study of econ, science, and further study in math) and the level of math course completed in high school (many smaller high schools don't offer calc, so saying 'I took the highest level available to me' is not going to put you in the pool with students who did take and succeed in  Calc BC/2.).  The AP scores though can be quite helpful in showing the level of rigor of the prep course.

 

So, time to put the final touches on the interviewing skills.

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ime, peers who take many practice tests are practicing test taking skills. That lessens the test anxiety over time.

 

I'm finding the expensive group SAT courses not worth it compared to individual prep...if I was in Manhattan I'd probably think otherwise, but out here....better off investing in test prep books. That doesn't require generous financial resources, merely a library card and the ability to walk or bike over to the library. Its less than a dollar to own a used prep book, its free to borrow. The internet has many free vocab study sources, however it takes self-discipline & motivation to use them wisely. The last kid who scored a perfect 800/800/800 at the local high school did not accelerate math at all; he put his time into self-study test prep. Worked too...got into NYU for math. I wouldn't say money buys test scores at that level; its effort. Many students get their spring jr year score back and put the effort in over the summer, seeing scores a 100 pts higher in the fall exam.

 

I'm not getting the impression that SAT/ACT scores are going to hold people back from nonIvys....but I do hear the quality of the high school is going to be considered in the admission process.. for ex:.one can have a perfect 4.0 gpa and they'll still have difficulty with math, and that shows in both the SAT or ACT test and the first year of college grades (unless they are going into something that doesn't require the study of econ, science, and further study in math) and the level of math course completed in high school (many smaller high schools don't offer calc, so saying 'I took the highest level available to me' is not going to put you in the pool with students who did take and succeed in Calc BC/2.). The AP scores though can be quite helpful in showing the level of rigor of the prep course.

 

So, time to put the final touches on the interviewing skills.

Nothing wrong with what you are saying, but Joanne started a JAWM thread that the system is flawed,

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There's such a range of universities, I'd try to find a way she could realize that. It's not just " great schools" and " they'll take anyone". But I understand. It would really be beneficial if she spent some time considering what she'd prefer-- smaller class size( I'm guessing her classes are fairly small now?), large urban campus, etc. IMO, someone who doesn't perform we'll on standardized tests may not be comfortable in a place such as UT or TAMU, where 50,000 students often means huge class size the first year. Unless she's very ambitious, those are classes where you may feell like just a number, taking exams that are usually the same multiple choice format as the SAT, sitting in a huge auditorium with a couple hundred other kids. If she prefers to stay in Texas, I'd look at smaller ones, like Sam Houston or Trinity.

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Hi Joanne ,

Does your daughter know what type of courses she'd like to study at college? I was a bit surprised to read your post, lol, I picture your dd as still being a little girl!

 

LOL! My kids are now closing in on 20, dd will be 18 in 6 weeks and the baby is nearly 16!

post-217-0-93196900-1414593558_thumb.jpg

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There's such a range of universities, I'd try to find a way she could realize that. It's not just " great schools" and " they'll take anyone". But I understand. It would really be beneficial if she spent some time considering what she'd prefer-- smaller class size( I'm guessing her classes are fairly small now?), large urban campus, etc. IMO, someone who doesn't perform we'll on standardized tests may not be comfortable in a place such as UT or TAMU, where 50,000 students often means huge class size the first year. Unless she's very ambitious, those are classes where you may feell like just a number, taking exams that are usually the same multiple choice format as the SAT, sitting in a huge auditorium with a couple hundred other kids. If she prefers to stay in Texas, I'd look at smaller ones, like Sam Houston or Trinity.

 

She wants a small, cozy, quirky college. She's hesitant about SHSU due to the "easy" and "take anyone" but she is looking at Trinity. She would LOVE to get into St. Thomas (and would live on campus, she loves that part of town as do I.)

 

She is thinking of nursing, with the end goal of being a Nurse Practitioner/PA in Pediatric Rheumatology. (For obvious personal reasons)

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Nothing wrong with what you are saying, but Joanne started a JAWM thread that the system is flawed,

 

I am agreeing that there are flaws.

 

Despite the JAWM, I am not agreeing that the way is blocked because the foot-in-the-door of a high score is not available at this time in the child's life.  I've been to several private school sessions where the Admissions rep is saying that the score doesn't define the prospective student at all.  The interview, the resume, the ambitions; these are things that say more.  I have a young friend who is thinking CC is his only prospect....and his mother wanted me to JAWM. He's got the golden ticket....first in family to college, class rank in top 5% , academically talented, divorced low income parent...and he isn't being allowed to apply to schools that want economic diversity and will give him a free ride. Letting this go as a JAWM would be irresponsible to the child's future. The way is not blocked.

 

And the attempt to peg it on money, for a child who attends private school, is so outrageous that no one should JAWM that or buy in.  I have so many colleagues in science and engineering that were free lunchers at bad public schools that I have to point out that the library card and effort is the poor person's path.  Heck, I have a friend now who is offering a science club for free at the library, since his school district won't fund clubs now and he is barred by his teacher's union for doing it for free at the school.  Effort makes the difference, if hope is alive. The kind of JAWM you are asking for destroys hope, needlessly.

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Great pic Joanne! I remember when your oldest had the very controversial, but very cute curly Mohawk. I hate admitting that wasn't a couple years ago.

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In part, I blame US News & World Report, because their college rankings rely so heavily on test scores that colleges are 'forced' to put a lot of emphasis on those scores.

 

I've no thoughts on the general topic bc my DS is too young still, but the quoted bit reminded of something I read recently:

Bard's president:

“It’s one of the real black marks on the history of higher education that an entire industry that’s supposedly populated by the best minds in the country—theoretical physicists, writers, critics—is bamboozled by a third-rate news magazine.† and  â€œThey do almost a parody of real research,†he continued. “I joke that the next thing they’ll do is rank churches. You know, ‘Where does God appear most frequently? How big are the pews?’ â€

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She wants a small, cozy, quirky college. She's hesitant about SHSU due to the "easy" and "take anyone" but she is looking at Trinity. She would LOVE to get into St. Thomas (and would live on campus, she loves that part of town as do I.)

 

She is thinking of nursing, with the end goal of being a Nurse Practitioner/PA in Pediatric Rheumatology. (For obvious personal reasons)

Then St Thomas sounds like a great fit! And who wouldn't have a grand time in that part of Houston? I just looked at the stats, and I'll bet it's very doable for her. My stepdaughter's sister goes to Trinity. She loves it. It's even smaller than her high school. I know another very bright girl who's 26 now, she loved Sam Houston. She was very outgoing, and really shined there. She loved the profs. I'm not sure what she majored in, but went on to get her masters and now has a great job working with autistic children.

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LOL! My kids are now closing in on 20, dd will be 18 in 6 weeks and the baby is nearly 16!

They grow up so fast! I feel like my children's early childhoods went more slowly, and then, bam I had a teen, and then double bam, senior year!

 

Great looking kids you've got there, Joanne!

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I totally get it, Joanne. I have upcoming smart, hardworking kids who are a disaster on standardized tests. The list of test optional schools is probably a great bet for finding a "cozy, quirky" college. Also, sometimes a mismatch between grades and scores can trigger interviews, even in schools who place weight on scores.

 

Love your pics, and everything will work out.  :grouphug:

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She wants a small, cozy, quirky college. She's hesitant about SHSU due to the "easy" and "take anyone" but she is looking at Trinity. She would LOVE to get into St. Thomas (and would live on campus, she loves that part of town as do I.)

 

She is thinking of nursing, with the end goal of being a Nurse Practitioner/PA in Pediatric Rheumatology. (For obvious personal reasons)

As her mom, do you think she'll be able to handle the licensing exams for nursing? I'd consider that very carefully before she picks a major. It would be incredibly frustrating to do well in college and not be able to practice your profession because of the test.

 

If you think it's doable, I'd highly encourage her to look at cc in addition to universities. Lone Star (and I'm sure HCC and other TX schools) offer RN programs that articulate to a bunch of schools and the credits are much more affordable than private colleges even with financial aid. But, even the cc programs require you to pass parts of the HESI test before you can start. I have no idea if it's less stressful than the SAT or ACT, but it might be worth trying to see how she does. It would allow you to evaluate a nursing major more objectively.

 

Best wishes helping your dd find her path!

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I agree with you. It is unfair and not necessarily helpful to society at large to place so much emphasis on one part of your intelligence, on one day (or two or three if you have the money).

 

 

Leadership, compassion, loyalty.... no test will ever accurately score those virtues.

 

Going to a community college and working with student government/leadership and needy folks does, though. And in my experience universities just LOVE those students. Once you've gotten one degree, you are "degree material" and admissions officers know it. State unis get paid to get students complete so they are serious about attracting such students--no SATs required.

 

It's not "sexy" but it is a GREAT place to get a good education, to get your prereqs out of the way for very little money, and to set yourself up for scholarships later.

 

She can even live off campus.

 

I went to uni and dropped out to finish at CC (in spite of very high scores) because it was cheaper and the instructors for the prereqs were actually better. Small class sizes. Loved it, finished early because I didn't have to deal with weed-out attitudes, full tutoring centers, etc. Got in with a work-study and a scholarship to my initial university of choice (well... I went there the first time, too, but my point is they treated me better after CC).

 

I know that is not a fun option for a high achiever to look at. I know. I never would have DREAMED of applying to community college out of high school. It seemed like a cop-out. But, if she's committed to that school and thinks it's the best for her, really, truly, community colleges would love to have a mind of that caliber in the classroom. Community colleges also have academic-based scholarships, and not only for minority or poor students. It's worth a shot.

 

 

She is thinking of nursing, with the end goal of being a Nurse Practitioner/PA in Pediatric Rheumatology. (For obvious personal reasons)

 

Nursing is standardized-test heavy and ultra, ultra competitive. I would strongly suggest, if this is her life calling, that she get the academic and psychological help necessary now to help her get past this. At least seeing whether it's an anxiety issue or something would be helpful.

 

You just can't pass the boards if you don't test well.

 

I believe your daughter can do it but now is the time to address those issues whatever they may be--or perhaps while at a CC. They may even have support services that help her with testing skills.

 

And yes, CCs have some of the best RN programs and pre-nursing programs in the country, though four-year unis would hate to lose your $ so would never admit it.

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I am agreeing that there are flaws.

 

Despite the JAWM, I am not agreeing that the way is blocked because the foot-in-the-door of a high score is not available at this time in the child's life. I've been to several private school sessions where the Admissions rep is saying that the score doesn't define the prospective student at all. The interview, the resume, the ambitions; these are things that say more. I have a young friend who is thinking CC is his only prospect....and his mother wanted me to JAWM. He's got the golden ticket....first in family to college, class rank in top 5% , academically talented, divorced low income parent...and he isn't being allowed to apply to schools that want economic diversity and will give him a free ride. Letting this go as a JAWM would be irresponsible to the child's future. The way is not blocked.

 

Off-topic, but I fail to see how having a "divorced low income parent" = part of a golden ticket. I know you are looking at it from the ability to get financial aid, but I don't consider that very "golden."

I bet that child doesn't either. JMO.

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My niece also did not test well and her grades in school were not perfect but pretty good. She went to a very small (minuscule) mining engineering school and just blossomed there. She got a good engineering job, her PE license and is well-liked at her job. Her bosses want her to go get her MBA, which they'll pay for, because they want to move her up. She's 27 and just bought her first house! I'm a very proud Auntie!

 

So, qualities like a love for what you're studying, being nice to others, being a team player, definitely working hard = a good future.

 

Don't worry about it too much!

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Off-topic, but I fail to see how having a "divorced low income parent" = part of a golden ticket. I know you are looking at it from the ability to get financial aid, but I don't consider that very "golden."

I bet that child doesn't either. JMO.

 

I agree. First generation is considered as part of admission in SOME colleges as a proxy for race, but not low-income. That is only for financial aid. Financial aid will give you only so much in cash, too. The rest is all loans and it's a huge burden for many.

 

Though I agree with Heigh Ho's point that to let it go as JAWM is NOT a good idea: the kid might not have a golden ticket but he should be applying to a state university and for scholarships.

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I haven't read any other posts. But, remember, she can always start off at the "they take anyone college" and transfer once she proves she is successful. A 4.0 in college level classes for a year will trump test scores. It's not the end of the world. ((HUGS))

 

ETA: For the record, my extremely intelligent (and good test taking) eldest is doing her first year of college at a community college to help build up her confidence. It has been fabulous for her so far. She has received loads of wonderful feedback from her professors. She's already been recommended for a job as a tutor in the writing center and hasn't even finished her first semester. As long as she keeps up her grades, she will be able to transfer to a 4 year school next year. Most universities have merit scholarships for high achieving transfer students. We have carefully checked each course she takes to make sure each one transfers to her school of choice.

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She wants a small, cozy, quirky college. She's hesitant about SHSU due to the "easy" and "take anyone" but she is looking at Trinity. She would LOVE to get into St. Thomas (and would live on campus, she loves that part of town as do I.)

 

She is thinking of nursing, with the end goal of being a Nurse Practitioner/PA in Pediatric Rheumatology. (For obvious personal reasons)

 

Although probably not cozy or quirky, doing her RN at the local community college and then bridging into a BSN program might be a great option for her. 

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I was surprised that more important than test scores were his grades from dual enrollment classes. In fact, one of his scholarships would not have been available to him were it not for those CC classes.

 

FWIW, ds is attending his last choice school (a "they take everyone" university) - it was the only one we could manage financially, despite his excellent GPA, test scores, and portfolio. He loves it. His profs have taken note that he is a good and conscientious student and have worked to provide opportunities for him that would not likely have been available to him at other schools.

 

I was a great test taker. Dh was not. Our brains just work differently and it will be interesting to see how that plays out in the natural abilities of our kids.

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I am all for going in the opposite direction. 

What I would do? (Granted, I'm a PITA that doesn't listen to many people) I would call the colleges of her choice and speak directly to admissions, tell them the problem, and ask if there's any way you can apply in a different way. Obviously with first telling them of her hard work and her success. Cast a broad net. 


The worst thing they can say is no. (this is my mantra though life. That, and you eat the elephant one bite at a time) 

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I agree that the "school that accepts everyone" does not have to be a bad experience.  Also, she can transfer to a "better" school later.

 

Also, don't assume that a bad ACT/SAT score automatically excludes your daughter.  You can get letters of recommendation and talk with appropriate people.  Very few schools these days have mandatory minimums.  Yes, they do have averages that they want to keep up, but many schools are interested in well - rounded people, and can accept the student who doesn't do quite as well on ACT/SAT especially if her GPA is great and she has a good work ethic.

 

Please don't despair!

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But she HAS taken almost all our Honors courses, including several STEM. They are the equivalent and the hardest courses at our school, something I know "they" look at when evaluating a transcript from our school.

 

Where do the top students at your daughter's school typically attend college?  Would it be possible to have your daughter's guidance counselor call those colleges that her peers attend and explain to the adcoms that your daughter performs as well as the other top students in the classroom environment?  If the guidance counselor made them aware of this fact and that your daughter suffers from test anxiety, the adcoms might overlook her standardized test scores.  Good luck.

 

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Where do the top students at your daughter's school typically attend college? Would it be possible to have your daughter's guidance counselor call those colleges that her peers attend and explain to the adcoms that your daughter performs as well as the other top students in the classroom environment? If the guidance counselor made them aware of this fact and that your daughter suffers from test anxiety, the adcoms might overlook her standardized test scores. Good luck.

 

Technically I am her school's guidance counselor. ;) she attends a small private school with about 100 students. I began teaching here in 2009 and moved into administration after I graduated with my Masters. My salary covers my kids attending.

 

So I can't be her reference but my boss serves that function for my kids. She'll have spectacular references from administration and teachers.

 

In general, her ACT and SAT scores are average and not dismal.

 

Oh, we have had students get into state schools, some religious out of state schools, Baylor, University of Houston, Our Lady of the Lake, Texas A&M. In Texas it is common to stay in state.

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She wants a small, cozy, quirky college. She's hesitant about SHSU due to the "easy" and "take anyone" but she is looking at Trinity. She would LOVE to get into St. Thomas (and would live on campus, she loves that part of town as do I.)

 

She is thinking of nursing, with the end goal of being a Nurse Practitioner/PA in Pediatric Rheumatology. (For obvious personal reasons)

Joanne, my niece is in her second year at Trinity and absolutely loves it! Has nothing but good things to say about the professors, student body, classes, etc. St Thomas sounds lovely as well.

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The college acceptance process was the biggest eye-opener ever for me.

 

We spent years working with my daughter to make sure she was well rounded because that is what you always hear. By the time she graduated high school she had 7 AP classes (all scores of 4 or 5's), National Honor Society, varsity volleyball, lead pianist in the jazz band, captain/lead attorney of the Mock Trial, secretary of the debate club, president of the charity outreach club, and over 300 hours of volunteer work. She had received awards locally,state wide, and nationally (there is a whole section on the applications that have you fill out awards and they separate them by local, state and national. I wanted to make sure she had something in all categories so it wouldn't be blank.)

 

She had covered every aspect that colleges supposedly look for.

 

None of the higher tier schools accepted her because her SAT score was 1950. All that talk about wanting a "well-rounded student"? Bull-oney. First they want the students to have outstanding SAT scores, and THEN from there they look for well-rounded. I think they probably won't even look at you if your scores aren't over 2200.

 

My boss graduated from Yale University. He wrote a recommendation letter for her that made her sound like Mother Theresa. He is her biggest fan (he was her attorney coach for the high school Mock Trial team) and he was so invested in her going to Yale. He talked about how they always say they look at the student, that they want diversity, blah blah blah. Again, total BULL! She was rejected outright.

 

It was a hard pill to swallow. She ended up going to our state university and she absolutely loves it. I can barely get her to come home on the weekends. It is a great fit for her, and she says the facilities are wonderful (she is a biology major so does a lot of work in labs, etc.) the classes are challenging and the atmosphere fits her well. In the end I think she may not have like Yale -- too small, too liberal -- so maybe things happen for a reason.

 

But the whole testing thing? I get that it is necessary because they need something that is uniform for all students applying, but don't buy the line that they don't rely on the scores. They do. They shouldn't. It should be just one of the tools they use, but I guess when they have 30,000 application they have to have a first round cut somehow. I just wish they didn't make it sound like other things get equal weight.

 

Sorry that you are in the middle of this right now.

 

 

 

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None of the higher tier schools accepted her because her SAT score was 1950. All that talk about wanting a "well-rounded student"? Bull-oney. First they want the students to have outstanding SAT scores, and THEN from there they look for well-rounded. I think they probably won't even look at you if your scores aren't over 2200.

 

We found this for merit aid at the primary school we were looking at.  Pretty much they want an over-the-top SAT, period.  They only have a bare handful of truly generous merit scholarships, most are just piddly ($500-2000).  Mine did well on the SAT (nearly made National Merit too), but when we really pushed hard to get to that level.  I couldn't see pushing even more than that.  We already had on a kid that was burned out by AP's and who wasn't sure about a major as it was.  So we didn't even apply there.

 

We decided just to start at the community college where I work.  He has said over and over that this is what he wants now that it is decided.  There's a great honors program and excellent transfer agreements. They have a lot of resources to help with picking a major.  In the spring we'll apply for merit aid, but we're OK either way.  We're enjoying his senior year because the decision is made.  I don't know if we'll do the same for the next one, but we'll see.

 

I have friends who are pushing their seniors hard and telling me that I should be stressed about this because "he is capable of so much more."  That's fine for them, but not us. There are a lot of paths to adulthood!

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I think that community colleges are underestimated. They don't weed students and it's open admission but but it is possible to do truly excellent work there. It's like saying that you need to be in a test-selective program to succeed. Unless your child is going to a really high-income university to meet high-income people in a high-income major, seriously, it's about hard work. And plenty of really amazing people (including astronauts, doctors, lawyers, Harvard professors)  came up through community colleges. And that's just in my own state!

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She wants a small, cozy, quirky college. She's hesitant about SHSU due to the "easy" and "take anyone" but she is looking at Trinity. She would LOVE to get into St. Thomas (and would live on campus, she loves that part of town as do I.)

 

She is thinking of nursing, with the end goal of being a Nurse Practitioner/PA in Pediatric Rheumatology. (For obvious personal reasons)

I don't think Trinity has a nursing program, does it?  University of Incarnate Word (across the street from Trinity) has a nursing program.

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I don't think Trinity has a nursing program, does it?  University of Incarnate Word (across the street from Trinity) has a nursing program.

 

If you're interested in UIW, they have an online high school. You might have your dd take a class for dual credit through them so they can see the caliber of student she is.

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If you're interested in UIW, they have an online high school. You might have your dd take a class for dual credit through them so they can see the caliber of student she is.

 

Online courses are not a match for my dd right now.

 

And she wants the "real college" experience. I taught at a Community College, and she came with me for my Saturday classes. She wants a 4 year, live away from home experience. I think she'd take a lesser college now rather than CC now and a better college later. If I can help her with that, and support her making the decisions, I will.

 

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Hugs! I can understand your frustration. There is a lot riding on a score that hasn't been shown to predict academic success. Besides transferring in with an AA from a CC, I have noticed some schools that have alternate transfer routes for admission. One that we are considering is a guaranteed admission into a particular major with a specific 30 hours that must be taken after graduation. If there are some schools your DD is considering, maybe there is some type of transfer program liked this? Honors programs at some schools can make a less challenging to get into school a spectacular place . Your DD will do well wherever she goes. My heart goes out ot you both. There should be a better reward for her hard work.

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I don't think Trinity has a nursing program, does it?  University of Incarnate Word (across the street from Trinity) has a nursing program.

 

I looked at nursing programs when I was applying to college (I was pre-med but a lot of the courses are the same and I liked the idea of the hands-on clinical training). The first 2 years are the science pre-reqs and general ed courses. So I'm not sure it matters if they are done at a school with a BSN program for a student intending to transfer.

 

One of my college friends did a direct-entry MSN program after graduating with a degree in human biology. So that's a possible option as well. The student needs to make sure that she (or he) completes all the science pre-reqs for the direct-entry MSN at the undergraduate college.

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I'm so sorry for your and your daughter's disappointment after all her hard work. (For what it's worth, I have a child with whom I expect to be facing similiar issues in a few years.) The unfairness of the situation just hurts. There's so much more to a student than a stupid test score. I hope I'm not crossing the line of JAWM here, but I just wanted to say I really believe that, once you've both had time to process the disappointment, you'll find a way to help her have a college experience that will challenge and satisfy her in spite of the obstacle. She sounds like a great girl--a tough cookie, too, given all she's experienced. Best of luck to her. Please let us know what path she takes.

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For the first part, I don't understand why we, as homeschoolers, change the course to suit us until the end, when we decide to jump though all of the hoops because?...our goal was to win the same race as everyone else? I mean, if that's the case, then by all means, take that SAT and ACT and all of the APs and jump through the hoops. But that's not why I wanted to homeschool. This race, to me, wasn't about a better way to get into college at all. 

 

I think that community colleges are underestimated. They don't weed students and it's open admission but but it is possible to do truly excellent work there. It's like saying that you need to be in a test-selective program to succeed. Unless your child is going to a really high-income university to meet high-income people in a high-income major, seriously, it's about hard work. And plenty of really amazing people (including astronauts, doctors, lawyers, Harvard professors)  came up through community colleges. And that's just in my own state!

 

I found out very recently through my 'niece' that our local CC wasn't all it was cracked up to be. It's not anything, actually. Her experience has been so awful that I am reconsidering sending my HS students there for classes. 

She got a free ride. Our last conversation was how she's glad it's free because no way she'd ever pay for it. Her professors, all but 2, are dismal at best. She said that she is not learning anything and she is not challenged at all. This is her second year. 

County College really is a case by case basis. 

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For the first part, I don't understand why we, as homeschoolers, change the course to suit us until the end, when we decide to jump though all of the hoops because?...our goal was to win the same race as everyone else? I mean, if that's the case, then by all means, take that SAT and ACT and all of the APs and jump through the hoops. But that's not why I wanted to homeschool. This race, to me, wasn't about a better way to get into college at all. 

 

We chose to homeschool because we believed it was the most supportive environment for our children and because we believe it will prepare them for adulthood.

 

We also happen to believe that a college degree and/or job training is a great preparation for adulthood.

 

It's not about winning a race. It's about supporting our children to find an occupation that is interesting and enjoyable to them and will pay the bills. Whether they work as a plumber or as a brain surgeon, we will support them to get the training that is necessary to do what they want to do.

 

So yes, that means jumping through some hoops. Those hoops are a means to an end.

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For the first part, I don't understand why we, as homeschoolers, change the course to suit us until the end, when we decide to jump though all of the hoops because?...our goal was to win the same race as everyone else? I mean, if that's the case, then by all means, take that SAT and ACT and all of the APs and jump through the hoops. But that's not why I wanted to homeschool. This race, to me, wasn't about a better way to get into college at all. 

 

 

 

I don't consider the SAT and/or ACT to be in the same category as seeking out AP courses at all. For my son, the PSAT and SAT were two mornings of his life. He glanced through a study guide for each but didn't do any other preparation, so opting to take the tests didn't affect his homeschool studies in the slightest.

 

Now, figuring out what his options were after we got the scores back, yes, that changed his plans for awhile. But after some personal experiences that made him "question everything" he landed back as himself. Nothing changed, nothing was lost.

 

 

 

 

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We chose to homeschool because we believed it was the most supportive environment for our children and because we believe it will prepare them for adulthood.

 

We also happen to believe that a college degree and/or job training is a great preparation for adulthood.

 

It's not about winning a race. It's about supporting our children to find an occupation that is interesting and enjoyable to them and will pay the bills. Whether they work as a plumber or as a brain surgeon, we will support them to get the training that is necessary to do what they want to do.

 

So yes, that means jumping through some hoops. Those hoops are a means to an end.

 

:iagree:   And not only are those hoops a means to an end, when a student does well, they also can come with some decent scholarship $$.  To us, it's been worth the hoops.  I feel for those who have test anxiety.

 

And I'm glad I homeschooled - taking a different path even though that path included the hoops for my guys.  

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For the first part, I don't understand why we, as homeschoolers, change the course to suit us until the end, when we decide to jump though all of the hoops because?...our goal was to win the same race as everyone else? I mean, if that's the case, then by all means, take that SAT and ACT and all of the APs and jump through the hoops. But that's not why I wanted to homeschool. This race, to me, wasn't about a better way to get into college at all. 

 

 

 

I found out very recently through my 'niece' that our local CC wasn't all it was cracked up to be. It's not anything, actually. Her experience has been so awful that I am reconsidering sending my HS students there for classes. 

 

She got a free ride. Our last conversation was how she's glad it's free because no way she'd ever pay for it. Her professors, all but 2, are dismal at best. She said that she is not learning anything and she is not challenged at all. This is her second year. 

 

County College really is a case by case basis. 

 

Well, who could disagree with that? I certainly wouldn't. Community colleges vary widely as they are very locally funded and depend much more on the quality of students they get from the high schools. I'm sorry your niece had a bad experience.

 

There are no guarantees-BUT--I just want to say that it's not necessarily a useless experience and can be a path to a high quality school for those who do not have that path via test scores, like the OP's daughter. OP has confirmed that her daughter is not interested in the CC path, which is just fine. I just wanted to open that possibility.

 

We have some great CCs in our state, and some which are not as great. All of them are a great place to save money for a student who, for whatever reason, cannot take out huge loans even to go to a state school, and whose parents make too much for her to qualify for a Pell grant but who don't plan on paying tuition.

 

As for homeschooling--well, at this point isn't it really up to the child whether she wants to go to college? I mean you can buck the trends all you want to give your child a great education, but ultimately if you want to play the job game you have to play the piece-of-paper game unless you're so brilliant you can start your own business and make your own name out there. If you can do that, or rather, if your child can, go for it! But for many of us college is the path to a good career. I hardly think that makes the tailored homeschool experience a waste!

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We also happen to believe that a college degree and/or job training is a great preparation for adulthood.

 

It's not about winning a race. It's about supporting our children to find an occupation that is interesting and enjoyable to them and will pay the bills. Whether they work as a plumber or as a brain surgeon, we will support them to get the training that is necessary to do what they want to do.

 

So yes, that means jumping through some hoops. Those hoops are a means to an end.

 

Yes.  Without exams Calvin would not have reached the university that he is finding very fulfilling.  It's about helping him to be all that he wants to be.  In our case, that meant our putting him into school for four years after seven years at home and his taking exams.  I have no regrets at all.  We are lucky that both boys are happy with (essay) exams.

 

L

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I agree wholeheartedly with this part of your post.  DD will be attending a local 4 year, when the time comes.

For the first part, I don't understand why we, as homeschoolers, change the course to suit us until the end, when we decide to jump though all of the hoops because?...our goal was to win the same race as everyone else? I mean, if that's the case, then by all means, take that SAT and ACT and all of the APs and jump through the hoops. But that's not why I wanted to homeschool. This race, to me, wasn't about a better way to get into college at all. 

 

 

I found out very recently through my 'niece' that our local CC wasn't all it was cracked up to be. It's not anything, actually. Her experience has been so awful that I am reconsidering sending my HS students there for classes. 

She got a free ride. Our last conversation was how she's glad it's free because no way she'd ever pay for it. Her professors, all but 2, are dismal at best. She said that she is not learning anything and she is not challenged at all. This is her second year. 

County College really is a case by case basis. 

 

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