If you were in her shoes, is there anything I could say to change your mind?

[AimeeM]

You're 22 with a small child. You're engaged to a man from a middle eastern country (Iraq), very devout to a faith not your own <---- none of things would matter, but he uses these things as an excuse to treat you badly. He takes your keys and debit card when he's angry at you, leaving you with nothing until *he* decides to return, says inexcusable things to you, he lies CONSTANTLY... and blames it on "how things are done where he's from". In the beginning, he was charming, kind, and affectionate... and he still can be, when others are around, but he's different to you when he *thinks* nobody else is watching. 22 year old you has a life threatening heart condition and this guy knows you shouldn't be drinking, out at all hours, etc, but still guilts you into going, leaving your child behind with grandma.

Now grandma can't even watch out for you - you just moved into a private home with this young man.

 

22 year old YOU is my baby sister. Not the middle sister involved with the abusive alcoholic who is going away to jail, for quite some time, for a violent crime... a different sister. The youngest. The baby. My mom wants me to talk to her, since she isn't getting anywhere. I'm not sure I could either. I feel so lost. Is there something in the water?! Neither of my sisters comes from a home where spousal abuse was present or tolerated. There is nothing about our childhood that screams setting them up for abusive relationships and bad "pickers". I don't understand this what is happening to my family.

 

Is there anything I can say or do? Keeping in mind that 22 Year Old You isn't oblivious to it - others have pointed it out, even the fiance's older brother has warned you.

[katilac]

 <snip>

 

Is there anything I can say or do? Keeping in mind that 22 Year Old You isn't oblivious to it - others have pointed it out, even the fiance's older brother has warned you.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't think there is anything you can do. As you said, your sister is not oblivious to it. Even if she had been raised in a way to consider abuse 'normal,' getting out of that mindset usually takes years of hard work. It's not something that other people can really help with, unfortunately, other than making it generally known that you love and support the person. 

 

:grouphug:

[Ellie]

:grouphug:

 

ITA that probably nothing you will say will make a difference, but I think you should have the conversation anyway. Maybe you could find some resources, support groups for women in similar situations or something, that you could give her, or at least tell her you have in case she needs/wants them at some point in the future.

[Starr]

Message Joanne   :grouphug: .

[Scarlett]

I would say something but a very little something. Just to let her know that you are disturbed and concerned by her choices and will help her get free of him if she wants. Sometimes when people are in such an abusive place they view silence as approval.

[Alessandra]

Watch the movie, Not Without My Daughter? It's about a woman who marries a very nice Iranian doctor in the U.S. They go to visit his family in Iran. He decides to stay and, by law, he has custody of the child. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Without_My_Daughter

 

[btw, I love the middle east and have many middle eastern friends. I also have an American friend who has been happily married to an Iranian for 30 years. I just wanted to say that in case anyone seeing my recommendation thinks I'm anti-something.]

 

As for the abuse situation, I (sadly) agree with Ellie.

[AimeeM]

I definitely do NOT want her to think I approve. Even my other sister (currently married to an abusive alcoholic!) has told her to run for the hills.

She has an out. Every out. My husband and I would do whatever we could to help her - but even more than that, she always has a stable home with my mother and stepfather. Unfortunately, this is as easy as her thinking she has nowhere to go - I could make sure she knew otherwise... but she doesn't feel that way because she knows she has "outs"... she just loves him and I don't think I can battle against that.

[Dandelion]

At age 22, nothing anyone could have said to me would have made a difference in that scenario.  In fact, I married my emotionally abusive ex at age 22.  Family and friends tried to warn me.  Not only did I not listen to them, I stopped talking to them for awhile.  We got divorced four years later, just as everyone had predicted we would.

 

The only thing that could have (possibly) stopped me would have been meeting someone else.  Someone who was different from my ex in all the right ways, so I could see the contrast in behavior without anyone trying to beat me over the head with it.  And even then, I'm not sure I was in a place emotionally where that would have made a difference either.

 

:grouphug:

[clarkacademy]

Without going into great detail I will say this...I lived in abusive relationship for almost 20 years. Physically and emotionally. I knew I needed to leave. I knew I needed to go. Not my friends, not my family not even my kids could make me leave. I woke up one day and I finally felt in my heart to go just like that. She needs to come to her own conclusion. But I would still go talk to her.

[Lisbeth]

I keep hearing stories about young women who are caught off guard when their non-Western spouses don't act like Western men.  There are in fact distinct differences in how women are treated around the world/in different cultures.  Not across the board, but enough to def. be considered cultural differences/reality.

 

Is there anything you can do? I guess: Have him arrested when you witness or hear of abuse?  How dangerous is he when provoked? Call CPS because the child is in a neglectful (her resources are taken away when he decides to take off with her sources of money) situation, an abusive situation?  I would not allow a small child to live like that, personally, if I could do anything. 

 

What is weird to me here is if you are talking about a devout Muslim (just guessing, am I wrong?) then why would he promote drinking?  I thought drinking is off the table if you are a Muslim.

 

[AimeeM]

I also want to mention that he is beginning to make her cut ties with people she cares about. She doesn't answer the phone when we call, if he's around; he's had her change her number so that her friends do not have access, etc. I think she's on her third phone number in 6 months. In fact, I don't even have her current one.

[Lisbeth]

*My previous post does not mean all Western men are angels who are never abusive.  Just sayin'.

[AimeeM]

I keep hearing stories about young women who are caught off guard when their non-Western spouses don't act like Western men.  There are in fact distinct differences in how women are treated around the world/in different cultures.  Not across the board, but enough to def. be considered cultural differences/reality.

 

Is there anything you can do? I guess: Have him arrested when you witness or hear of abuse?  How dangerous is he when provoked? Call CPS because the child is in a neglectful (her resources are taken away when he decides to take off with her sources of money) situation, an abusive situation?  I would not allow a small child to live like that, personally, if I could do anything. 

 

What is weird to me here is if you are talking about a devout Muslim (just guessing, am I wrong?) then why would he promote drinking?  I thought drinking is off the table if you are a Muslim.

His father and his older brother are nothing like this (his older brother even trying to warn my sister and his own father and grandmother attempting to take my sister's side in arguments). This appears to be more personality oriented - and he's using his country of origin and religion as an excuse - and less to actually do with how women are treated "back home". Yes, he is muslim.

He isn't physically abusive, that I know of. My nephew isn't being neglected - in fact, he is treated far better than my sister in this situation.

 

[Lisbeth]

I definitely do NOT want her to think I approve. Even my other sister (currently married to an abusive alcoholic!) has told her to run for the hills.

She has an out. Every out. My husband and I would do whatever we could to help her - but even more than that, she always has a stable home with my mother and stepfather. Unfortunately, this is as easy as her thinking she has nowhere to go - I could make sure she knew otherwise... but she doesn't feel that way because she knows she has "outs"... she just loves him and I don't think I can battle against that.

 

I would focus on the child in the situation.  I realize 22 is very young but I just can't stand when women put men ahead of their children.  She thinks she loves him, but all bets are off when she brings a small child into this situation.  I would go hardcore on saving the kiddo.  The child has no choice; your sister has a choice.  She is putting her wants ahead of her child's needs. 

 

Maybe if she saw that perspective?

[AimeeM]

I would focus on the child in the situation.  I realize 22 is very young but I just can't stand when women put men ahead of their children.  She thinks she loves him, but all bets are off when she brings a small child into this situation.  I would go hardcore on saving the kiddo.  The child has no choice; your sister has a choice.  She is putting her wants ahead of her child's needs. 

 

Maybe if she saw that perspective?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "hardcore on saving the kiddo". There is nothing CPS worthy - he actually dotes on the child and my sister is always able to gain access to money, either via my mother or my sister, so the child isn't without for any period of time (or the child is with my mother at the time).

Do you mean that I implore to her on the basis that the child is involved? Oh I definitely plan to do that - remind her that he is going to emulate the man he sees as his father one day, and is going to be raised thinking this is "normal", regardless of how well the man treats the child specifically.

[Lisbeth]

His father and his older brother are nothing like this (his older brother even trying to warn my sister and his own father and grandmother attempting to take my sister's side in arguments). This appears to be more personality oriented - and he's using his country of origin and religion as an excuse - and less to actually do with how women are treated "back home". Yes, he is muslim.

He isn't physically abusive, that I know of. My nephew isn't being neglected - in fact, he is treated far better than my sister in this situation.

 

 

We cross-posted.

Because he is a male child?  Whew, I am glad to hear this, at least.

 

I agree that if he is promoting drinking yet using his culture as an excuse to be emotionally abusive, then  yep, it is just an excuse he is using and not a true conviction.  I do NOT mean to accuse ALL Muslim males of this behavior.

 

When he takes her debit card and disappears, it is punishing her.  I assume she still has food, heat, etc, for the kid?

I think that is just a few steps behind taking the child to punish her.  If only temporarily to put fear into her.

Also, being in an volatile situation is not good for this poor boy. 

 

I feel for you.  I really, really feel for you.  And your nephew. 

[AimeeM]

We cross-posted.

Because he is a male child?  Whew, I am glad to hear this, at least.

 

I agree that if he is promoting drinking yet using his culture as an excuse to be emotionally abusive, then  yep, it is just an excuse he is using and not a true conviction.  I do NOT mean to accuse ALL Muslim males of this behavior.

 

When he takes her debit card and disappears, it is punishing her.  I assume she still has food, heat, etc, for the kid?

I think that is just a few steps behind taking the child to punish her.  If only temporarily to put fear into her.

Also, being in an volatile situation is not good for this poor boy. 

 

I feel for you.  I really, really feel for you.  And your nephew. 

If he ever took that boy, he would have his own family to deal with - on top of mine (and the law, since he isn't legally custodial).

I actually don't think it's because he's a male child. He is actually really great with children. With children, he's patient, kind, attentive, etc. All the things he isn't with my sister...

[LMD]

My mum was much older than 22 when she was in this situation.  She told me that what finally got her to leave for good (after 7+ years) what her sister (my aunt) telling her that she would do what she could to get the kids (my sister and I) out of there - even if it involved going against mum.  Basically the choice was between her kids or her abusive husband.

 

I wouldn't recommend this approach out of the blue though, it happened at a time when mum was receptive to it.  Just after a big blow-up at christmas when we were interstate visiting aunt and staying at her place.  It was simpler to just stay where we were, already surrounded by support, and not go back.

[AimeeM]

You would think that looking at his older brother, his sister, his father and grandmother, she would realize that he isn't sincerely living out his faith or upbringing, since they are nothing like this.

[i am assuming he says he is Muslim]

 

Yes. the thing you can say to her, is that she should learn about Islam, and what the dictates of a strictly Quran and Hadith following marriage would look like. Because it's NOTHING like that. So whatever he's saying to her is an outright lie, if what he is saying is that you're allowed to treat women that way in Islam.

 

And, newsflash, even *if* they treat women like that "back home," he's not back home any more, and she KNOWS BETTER.

 

As a sister, I am firmly in the camp of offering help in every. single. conversation. with the sister making overtly terrible choices. Some peoplethink that's not a good tact, but as a sister I oculdn't live with myself if I didn't drive the point home that there is another way, and I am waiting on the edge of my seat to help when she's ready.

 

[AimeeM]

My mum was much older than 22 when she was in this situation.  She told me that what finally got her to leave for good (after 7+ years) what her sister (my aunt) telling her that she would do what she could to get the kids (my sister and I) out of there - even if it involved going against mum.  Basically the choice was between her kids or her abusive husband.

 

I wouldn't recommend this approach out of the blue though, it happened at a time when mum was receptive to it.  Just after a big blow-up at christmas when we were interstate visiting aunt and staying at her place.  It was simpler to just stay where we were, already surrounded by support, and not go back.

There is no reason to take the child, legally. He isn't physically abusive and the boy is actually very doted upon. It isn't a threat I could back up.

[AlmiraGulch]

It doesn't matter if anything you say changes her mind or not.  You have to say something.  She's your baby sister, and she needs to know that when she's ready and she leaves (because she will, eventually) that she'll have the support behind her to do it.

 

Tell her you love her and that you will be there for her whenever she's ready, with no "I told you so's".  You have to say something. 

[Joanne]

Yes, say something. When I was in an abusive relationship. I did not know. He never hit, shoved or pushed me.

 

I did not know or see the power and control as abuse.

 

I value and cherish those who did see it and try to help me.

[Alessandra]

Yes, say something. When I was in an abusive relationship. I did not know. He never hit, shoved or pushed me.

 

I did not know or see the power and control as abuse.

 

I value and cherish those who did see it and try to help me.

 

This. What good advice. It reminded me of a famous Ann Landers column. (Sometimes a quick list is better than a long book.)

 

http://www.creators.com/advice/classic-ann-landers.html

 

 

Dear Ann Landers: Please print this list of warning signals to help women determine if a mate or date is a potential (or actual) batterer.

Be careful if your mate displays any of the following signs:

1. Jealousy of your time with co-workers, friends and family.

2. Controlling behavior. (Controls your comings and goings and your money and insists on "helping" you make personal decisions.)

3. Isolation. (Cuts you off from supportive resources such as telephone pals and colleagues at work.)

4. Blames others for his problems. (Unemployment, family quarrels — everything is "your fault.")

5. Hypersensitivity. (Easily upset by annoyances that are a part of daily life, such as being asked to work overtime, criticism of any kind, being asked to help with chores or child care.)

6. Cruelty to animals or children. (Insensitive to their pain and suffering, may tease and/or hurt children and pets.)

7. "Playful" use of force in sex. (May throw you down and hold you during sex. May start having sex with you when you are sleeping or demand sex when you are ill or tired.)

8. Verbal abuse. (Says cruel and hurtful things, degrades and humiliates you, wakes you up to verbally abuse you or doesn't let you go to sleep.)

9. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality. (Sudden mood swings and unpredictable behavior — one minute loving, the next minute angry and punitive.)

10. Past history of battering. (Has hit others but has a list of excuses for having been "pushed over the edge.")

11. Threats of violence. (Says, "I'll slap you," "I'll kill you," or "I'll break your neck.")

12. Breaking or striking objects. (Breaks your possessions, throws objects near or at you or your children.)

13. Uses force during an argument. (Holds you down or against a wall, pushes, shoves, slaps or kicks you. This behavior can easily escalate to choking, stabbing or shooting.)

[Laurie4b]

Read Why Does He Do That and the Verbally Abusive Relationship for yourself. It will put you in a better position to help your sister.

 

I am so sorry. It must be crushingly painful to be in your & your mom's position.

[Aspasia]

I agree with the others that you probably can't change her mind. But I also agree that you should say something, just to add to the other voices of concern. Perhaps if enough people voice their concern, it will give her pause.

 

So sorry you have to watch this. :(

[Little Nyssa]

1. be very specific when you describe what is wrong with his behavior, so that she can't say "oh you just don't like him." Point out very specific instances like, he stole your debit card, he made you change your phone.

2. get her with groups of family/friends who are nice and normal so she can see the contrast.

3. suggest a plan for how to get him away.  She might not want to go through marrying him but she does not see how she could get him away from her. Pay for a ticket for him to go home for a visit.  That would be expensive but so worth it.  I am not sure how that would work out.  I am familiar with a VERY similar situation which could have been avoided if girl's family had just made him leave their (parents') house for a while.  22 is not necessarily old enough to act like a grownup.

4. remind her of goals and hopes she used to have for her life.

5. find a way that she can give up on this relationship without having to admit that she was unwise. That can come later.  For now, if she feels like everyone is going to say "I told you so!" she will hold on like grim death.  She needs to be able to leave with her pride intact.

6. If there is anything illegal going on do not hesitate to call the police.  

7. Stay in touch with her no matter what she chooses to do and make sure she knows you are there for her.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I would say something but a very little something. Just to let her know that you are disturbed and concerned by her choices and will help her get free of him if she wants. Sometimes when people are in such an abusive place they view silence as approval.

This.

 

And come up with a code she can use if she ever needs it. I had a friend in a somewhat similar situation. Her husband would take her keys, phone, and wallet. Our "code" was that we had plans to meet and she needed to let me know she wouldn't be coming. She used it once, shortly before she got out.

[AimeeM]

It doesn't matter if anything you say changes her mind or not.  You have to say something.  She's your baby sister, and she needs to know that when she's ready and she leaves (because she will, eventually) that she'll have the support behind her to do it.

 

Tell her you love her and that you will be there for her whenever she's ready, with no "I told you so's".  You have to say something. 

 

Oh I'm definitely going to say something. I can't *not*... but I wonder what I could possibly say.

[AimeeM]

1. be very specific when you describe what is wrong with his behavior, so that she can't say "oh you just don't like him." Point out very specific instances like, he stole your debit card, he made you change your phone.

2. get her with groups of family/friends who are nice and normal so she can see the contrast.

3. suggest a plan for how to get him away.  She might not want to go through marrying him but she does not see how she could get him away from her. Pay for a ticket for him to go home for a visit.  That would be expensive but so worth it.  I am not sure how that would work out.  I am familiar with a VERY similar situation which could have been avoided if girl's family had just made him leave their (parents') house for a while.  22 is not necessarily old enough to act like a grownup.

4. remind her of goals and hopes she used to have for her life.

5. find a way that she can give up on this relationship without having to admit that she was unwise. That can come later.  For now, if she feels like everyone is going to say "I told you so!" she will hold on like grim death.  She needs to be able to leave with her pride intact.

6. If there is anything illegal going on do not hesitate to call the police.  

7. Stay in touch with her no matter what she chooses to do and make sure she knows you are there for her.

I wish I could send him away :)

Alas, his familly is all local to them (I live a few hours away from them), so the has no reason to go back. They are no longer living with my mother - they are in their own place (which is leased under both their names.

 

 

Thank you all. I'll re-read everyone's advice before speaking with her. I have a couple weeks, so hopefully I can get it together before then.

[Χά�ων]

"I am here if you need a place to stay if you decide to leave him. You are welcome as long as it takes to get back on your feet."

[OrganicAnn]

Is your father or your sister's father involved in her life (in a positive way)?     I've heard that girls who's father is not involved are more likely to be involved in abusive relationships.    

 

I remember someone saying when judging a guy, pay no attention to what he says.   Pay attention to what he does.  

 

I hope you can keep sending her the message that you are there for her and she deserves better.  

[AimeeM]

"I am here if you need a place to stay if you decide to leave him. You are welcome as long as it takes to get back on your feet."

 

Definitely something I'll say - but I have to say, it's been said to her many times over already. She has a large, close knit family. I will remind her how loved she is - and how welcome she is. Unfortunately staying with me isn't something she would consider - she would have to leave her job to do so (I do not live local to her), but I will make sure she knows it's an option regardless.

[AimeeM]

Our father loves her very much - but she neither returns his calls or answers his calls (this isn't exclusive to him - I haven't talked to her since my mother's wedding in July). Yes, he's been involved. My parents are obviously divorced (i.e. my mention of step parents, lol), but he took full advantage of his visitation every other weekend (different states) and made the trek for things like father/daughter dances, graduations, the birth of her child, etc.

Is your father or your sister's father involved in her life (in a positive way)?     I've heard that girls who's father is not involved are more likely to be involved in abusive relationships.    

 

I remember someone saying when judging a guy, pay no attention to what he says.   Pay attention to what he does.  

 

I hope you can keep sending her the message that you are there for her and she deserves better.  

 

[AmyontheFarm]

If he ever took that boy, he would have his own family to deal with - on top of mine (and the law, since he isn't legally custodial).

I actually don't think it's because he's a male child. He is actually really great with children. With children, he's patient, kind, attentive, etc. All the things he isn't with my sister...

The problem with children is they grow up, what will he do when that child is a mouthy and mouths off to him?

[Mommyof4ks]

Maybe ask her how she will feel when her son treats her the same way her dh is treating her, or what if her ds starts talking back and dh starts treating him like he treats her (depending on if this is a cultral issue or a regular control freak issue). I have never been in that position, so maybe that is not helpful, but it seems like maybe she cannot look at how this will play out.

[Anne in CA]

When I was 20 I was induced to leave an alcoholic boyfriend when he behavior was pointed out to me by complete strangers who were much older than me and obviously knew what they were talking about.  Is there any way you could arrange for her to speak to someone outside the family about what religious abuse looks like?

 

I know not all Muslim men are like this, but this is a pattern I have seen over and over again. It is very worrying that in this case the honeymoon period has been so short and that he is actually endangering her life already by insisting on the late night drinking. He is already tired of her and may dispose of her sooner than anyone guesses. 

 

I have never personally known a Muslim man who would get a divorce and share custody, pay child support, ect. I think her life is more in danger than anyone might guess. Yes, flame me away, but I am going on what I have seen, not Muslim men in theory who might be out there somewhere.

[AngieW in Texas]

Is there any possibility of getting her to go with you to some Al-anon meetings?

 

It doesn't sound like her dh is an alcoholic, but you do have a qualifier because of your other sister's dh. Going to Al-anon could really help her to see what is going on. She appears to have the same kind of issues that are common in Al-anon.

 

I wouldn't make it sound like she needs to go. Instead tell her that YOU feel led to go and would like her to go with you for support. I strongly recommend Al-anon for anybody who has a friend or relative who is alcoholic whether that friend/relative is currently drinking/using or not. Since her dh isn't alcoholic, she and her dh probably won't have an issue with it because it won't seem like an attack on him or an issue with him. If you can possibly get your other sister (the one whose dh is an alcoholic) to go too, that would be fantastic. Even though it appears that they are no longer gonig to be together, getting away from the alcoholic will not fix all her problems. She needs the support she will get from Al-anon to heal herself.

[Liz CA]

I also want to mention that he is beginning to make her cut ties with people she cares about. She doesn't answer the phone when we call, if he's around; he's had her change her number so that her friends do not have access, etc. I think she's on her third phone number in 6 months. In fact, I don't even have her current one.

 

Very classic abusive behavior. But... as others have said "you can lead a horse to water, you cannot make them drink." If this were my sister, I'd let her know I will always be there for her when things get tough, and it looks like they will. Sorry for your family, Aimee. Your parents must be in so much pain. I would be, watching a daughter running into something like this. You can only assure her of your support when she needs help and when she is ready to get help.

 

Is she completely obtuse to the fact that he is starting to control her environment and isolate her from supportive people?

[redsquirrel]

you can say "I love you and I am worried about you. I know all relationships have their ups and downs but sometimes it looks like you aren't safe in your own home. I know you love him, but sometimes I worry about you. If you ever need to talk I am here to listen."

[Reflections]

I would tell her that I love her.  That she's my baby sister.  That I would walk through fire for her and for her child.  I would do anything I could to help, day or night.  No matter what.  And then leave it at that.

 

Any possibility that your father could have a talk with his father?  Here that is unheard of and not within boundaries.  Other cultures don't view it as such.  

 

[Joanne]

This. What good advice. It reminded me of a famous Ann Landers column. (Sometimes a quick list is better than a long book.)

 

http://www.creators.com/advice/classic-ann-landers.html

 

 

Dear Ann Landers: Please print this list of warning signals to help women determine if a mate or date is a potential (or actual) batterer.

Be careful if your mate displays any of the following signs:

1. Jealousy of your time with co-workers, friends and family.

2. Controlling behavior. (Controls your comings and goings and your money and insists on "helping" you make personal decisions.)

3. Isolation. (Cuts you off from supportive resources such as telephone pals and colleagues at work.)

4. Blames others for his problems. (Unemployment, family quarrels — everything is "your fault.")

5. Hypersensitivity. (Easily upset by annoyances that are a part of daily life, such as being asked to work overtime, criticism of any kind, being asked to help with chores or child care.)

6. Cruelty to animals or children. (Insensitive to their pain and suffering, may tease and/or hurt children and pets.)

7. "Playful" use of force in sex. (May throw you down and hold you during sex. May start having sex with you when you are sleeping or demand sex when you are ill or tired.)

8. Verbal abuse. (Says cruel and hurtful things, degrades and humiliates you, wakes you up to verbally abuse you or doesn't let you go to sleep.)

9. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality. (Sudden mood swings and unpredictable behavior — one minute loving, the next minute angry and punitive.)

10. Past history of battering. (Has hit others but has a list of excuses for having been "pushed over the edge.")

11. Threats of violence. (Says, "I'll slap you," "I'll kill you," or "I'll break your neck.")

12. Breaking or striking objects. (Breaks your possessions, throws objects near or at you or your children.)

13. Uses force during an argument. (Holds you down or against a wall, pushes, shoves, slaps or kicks you. This behavior can easily escalate to choking, stabbing or shooting.)

 

 

Good list.

 

This link may help, also:

 

http://cmhc.utexas.edu/pdf/PowerControlwheel.pdf

[laundrycrisis]

I would tell her straight up, no mincing of words - his control of you is abusive.  Even if he doesn't hit you or push you.   The control is not normal, not typical, and not a way any adult, male or female, should treat another adult, male or female, in any country or religion.  And tell her that she is not seeing it because he has her mindf..d.  But everyone else can see it and is afraid for her and her child.  She deserves to be treated as a full person, who never has her keys, wallet and phone taken from her.  Ever. 

[MollyAnn]

I spent 10months in a mentally abusive relasonship when I was 18. It wasn't long but it was incredibly damaging. Family and friends told me he wasn't good and tried to get me to leave and I wouldn't do it even though I was miserable. What finally got me to leave was a good male friend told me " I rather see you put a bullet through your head than stay with him" My friend rather seeing me dead than with him shocked me into getting the hell away from him.

 

There isn't much you can say to her. I would call around to police, shelters, anywhere where you can get pamphlets that state what abuse looks like so you can put them in front of her. Show her that what he is doing to her is textbook signs police look for on domestic calls. Point out all the people who are warning her away from him. Remind her that love is supposed to make one feel good and happy, ask her if she cries more than she laughs, ask if she is excited when he walks through the door or nervous he will be upset about something. Ask her if she wants to live like that. Ask her if she wants her son to be just like him and treat his future girlfriends that way.

Then tell her your phone number will never change, you will pick her up anywhere anytime and to please not let pride get in the way of her calling you when she needs to.

[StephanieZ]

I am afraid that you will not be able to influence your young adult sister. She is going to do whatever stupid thing it is she wants to do. I agree that your focus should shift to her child. Being exposed to an abusive relationship is very damaging. I would stay close to the child, babysit, spend time . . . be careful about alienating the sister or her SOB fiance. I would keep evidence of the abuse if/when you see it. (Snap photos of injuries. Save nasty texts, etc.) I would report to CPS and/or hire a lawyer to take custody of the child yourself if and when you feel the child is in danger and there is sufficient evidence of abuse of either your sister or the child. (Abuse is a CRIME whether or not she cooperates.) I know this flies in the face of parental rights, blah, blah . . . To me, parental rights stop when abuse begins. And, it IS abusive to raise a child in that environment. Abusive by BOTH parents, as the mother is an able adult making a stupid, dangerous choice. (And, think of the damage that man could do to a daughter . . .)

[bettyandbob]

As another poster stated, I would ask is this man the example she wants her son to have. Does she want her son to learn it is ok to push mom around. Does she want her son to learn it is ok to control a girlfriend or wife like this. How will she feel when she watches her son do these things.

 

I would let her know she can call you anytime.

 

This probably would not work, but maybe if she was given an independent perspective on Islam and Iraq it might help her to see some of the distortions. Do you know any families that practice Islam in your area? I know a few where I live. I know families from Iraq. Perhaps if you knew a woman from such a family who could visit with you and your sister to explain "how things work". Maybe such a perspective would help her begin to realize this man's "how things work" is a distortion. I don't know any families who are Muslim who drink. I don't know for sure about Iraq but drinking alcohol is illegal in many Muslim countries.

[ThisIsTheDay]

Yes. the thing you can say to her, is that she should learn about Islam, and what the dictates of a strictly Quran and Hadith following marriage would look like. Because it's NOTHING like that. So whatever he's saying to her is an outright lie, if what he is saying is that you're allowed to treat women that way in Islam.

 

And, newsflash, even *if* they treat women like that "back home," he's not back home any more, and she KNOWS BETTER.

 

 

 

I would tell her straight up, no mincing of words - his control of you is abusive.  Even if he doesn't hit you or push you.   The control is not normal, not typical, and not a way any adult, male or female, should treat another adult, male or female, in any country or religion.  And tell her that she is not seeing it because he has her mindf..d.  But everyone else can see it and is afraid for her and her child.  She deserves to be treated as a full person, who never has her keys, wallet and phone taken from her.  Ever. 

 

I agree with both of these posts.  I would prepare myself for what I was going to bring up and say these things to my sister. I would begin tucking money away so that I have it to help her when she is ready to get out.  I would tell her that I am doing this and why.   I love her desperately and am here for her, whether it's today, next year or in five years, and that she needs to remember that I AM HERE and I WILL HELP her and her child. No matter what and ALWAYS.

 

Heartbreaking, really.

[plansrme]

I have not read all of the responses, but I want to chime in with a couple of thoughts.  First, at that age (at many ages), the longing for someone to love can be all-consuming.  It is easy to forget that when you are happily married and so removed from that stage of life, but I wholeheartedly agree with another poster who said that the best thing that could happen to her is for her to meet another man: a cute, nice guy.  I know that's going to be hard, maybe impossible to arrange, but she is 22 with a baby and probably thinks nice guys her age aren't going to be interested in her.  That may be true--I don't know, but it is easy to think that if you're not 22 and married that you're going to die a lonely old maid.  We all know that's ludicrous because we are older and more mature, but that doesn't change the way it may appear to her:  that this is her only chance to not be lonely (and possibly poor and lonely) forever.

 

Second, I agre with the others that regardless of what you say, you have to say something.  And it has to be forceful.  You can't let her look at you all in a couple of years when her life is in ruins and say, "Why didn't you warn me?  How could you let me ruin my life and stand idly by?"  Even if she doesn't listen to you, which she probably won't, you have to say something.

 

Third, do whatever it takes to stay in her life.  Suck up to the jerk if need be; pay for stuff; babysit her child; whatever it takes, try to stay in her life so it is as easy as possible for her to leave.  And for heaven's sakes, encourage her not to get pregnant.  Sneak birth control pills to her if necessary.  'Cause the only thing worse than being married to someone like this would be having a child with him.

 

 

[TammyinTN]

Our oldest dd had a baby with a muslim man.   He  can't come to this country, but has send over 700 pages of emails threatening to take her or to kill us and her.   The movie Not Without My Daughter scares me to death.  He has sons who we are afraid as they get older will come looking for her.  She should be very afraid of this situation, but I don't know how to get her to understand that. 

[craftymama]

Watch the movie, Not Without My Daughter? It's about a woman who marries a very nice Iranian doctor in the U.S. They go to visit his family in Iran. He decides to stay and, by law, he has custody of the child.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Without_My_Daughter

 

[btw, I love the middle east and have many middle eastern friends. I also have an American friend who has been happily married to an Iranian for 30 years. I just wanted to say that in case anyone seeing my recommendation thinks I'm anti-something.]

 

As for the abuse situation, I (sadly) agree with Ellie.

This! This movie was the first thing to pop in my mind.

[Tess in the Burbs]

Honestly, you can't say anything she will listen to. If it were me I would tell her you love her and want the best for her and want her happy, but you have some concerns about her relationship and wish she would pull away for just a bit to think about things and if you are wrong later on you will gladly admit it but could she please hear you out and get away for a bit and then decide about this man?

 

My experience is women don't want to hear it.  It's a personality thing with some people that they stick with the worst men and will throw anyone around them under the bus to keep that relationship going instead of walking away.  I had a dear friend who got involved with a man who was sleeping with his best friend's girlfriend.  We worked with her.  I saw them together at this girl's house.  I told my friend.  She cut me off saying I was trying to ruin the relationship.  I was right.  Five years later he never did marry her and she finally wised up and left.  But it took him leaving her at the alter in vegas with friends and HIS mother.  She had been living with his mom while he was screwing around with how many others.  I felt badly for her but in hindsight she was the one who called boys until they finally talked to her.  She was the one who were drove to see if a guy was at a friends house at 2am and then she begged me to take her car and leave her there with him when she found him.  She's the one who cut everyone off anytime a boy showed her any interest.  She's still single.  Still gets into the worst relationships.  And honestly, she was pretty, smart, and determined.  She wanted a husband and children.  But that gullible/obsessive personality never let her embrace the good guys....she always went to the bad ones.  

 

it's too bad you as a family can't all go in, tell him you all think he's trash and take your sister/kid away.  If she's put up with it so far, she's probably going to go through a lot worse before considering it's bad for her :-(  My only other thought is reporting the situation to social services to try and get the child out of it.