If you don't drink alcohol, do you allow

[HS Mom in NC]

I have a handful of alcoholic drinks a year.  My father was an alcoholic. Alcoholism is far more complicated than genetic predisposition. Don't assume everyone who had an alcoholic parent is destined to be a drunk if they drink at all.  The idea that people are either non-drinkers entirely or drunks is a mythology spread in certain Christian circles.  Don't buy into it and don't spread it to your kids. It's actually good for children to see people being moderate, responsible drinkers-most people are.  That doesn't mean they have to drink at all as adults, but they can be very responsible if they do do chose to drink moderately.

 

Are you concerned that the adults are going to give your child alcohol?  I would be surprised if that ever happened. I know lots of Christians with very different views on alcohol and I've never heard of one giving someone else's kid alcohol.  Are you concerned that the children will give your child alcohol?  In order for that to happen they would have to be unsupervised, right? If you don't allow your child to go to someone's house without a responsible adult around, then it shouldn't be an issue.  I don't really understand your fears here.  Were the adults drunk/intoxicated when you arrived? If not, then why was it a problem? I don't believe your sister's alcoholism is relevant to the situation you describe. Clearly your sister was at the home of people inadequately supervising the kids.  You haven't shown anything in your OP that shows these adults not supervising the kids.

All or nothing thinking is a hard way to live.  If you decide your children can't go to a home where there's alcohol at all, then they're not going to get out much.  I see no Biblical reasoning behind this.  If you decide no adult is allowed to drink responsibly  in their own home while your child is present, then you're really over stepping.   You should simply explain to the parent your views and then keep your child home rather than try to forbid responsible drinking in their own home at meals, during a social gathering, to unwind at the end of the day, etc. 

 

There's a difference in telling your OWN CHILD not to participate in certain movies and video games that are bad for someone with an immature brain and immature emotional development and telling an adult not to drink moderately with a meal or during a social event. You can control your own child from doing something bad for him.  You cannot demand the adults not do something that's perfectly fine for them.

 

Now, let's get Biblical.  If I were advising them, as a Christian, I would be forced to point out that they may have to abstain from alcohol around you and your child because it may be a stumbling block for you.  If it is, the Bible points out that it makes you the weaker brother in that situation.  That's how the Bible labels it. The real question here I guess is, is it a stumbling block for you or not? Is it going to cause a sever in the relationship?  Is it in some way going to cause some sort of root of bitterness or unrighteous anger ?  Is it going to cause you to bear false witness against them by accusing them of a sin they didn't commit?  Something else?  I can't know, I can only list some possibilities that may or may not apply to you based on other reactions other people have had to moderate drinking. 

[Laura Corin]

With the concerns that you have, I'd try to work out a staged introduction - not to drink but to the idea of people drinking - over the next few years.  If anything, I'd seek out people whom you feel comfortable with and with whom your whole family can socialise, but who drink moderately.  It's valuable for your children to know that whilst it's normal to drink moderately (as your friends would be doing) it's also normal to refuse alcohol, and for that refusal to be honoured.  By seeing how you manage this with your peers, they will learn how to cope with pressure from people their own age.

 

We model sensible drinking - our limits are not the same as yours, but we would like our children to learn how alcohol can work before they are out on their own, feeling lonely and a bit rootless, and more likely to dive into alcohol in a dangerous way.

 

L

[Upennmama]

Thanks for all the responses. It definitely will give me some things to think about. My whole take on it is that if you never start drinking, you never have to stop. I've lived my entire life without drinking and don't feel I've been denied anything because of that choice. To me, I don't see how there is any benefit or need to drink alcohol. Drinking can, however, be a cause of many, many problems. 

 

I did not know there would be drinking at this party because the party was intended to be for children. I assume that the drinking started after the other children left, but ds stayed due to our not being able to pick him up. This child invites ds over a lot, but often we have other things going on that would make it difficult to pick him up later. They live 25-30 minutes from our home.  

 

I do feel comfortable talking with this mom about it, but I wanted to hear how others felt first. 

 

Why is asking a parent not to drink when your child is in their home rude? When these two get together, they play for 3 hours or so. If a parent can't go 3 hours without a drink out of respect for my wishes, I think they have a drinking problem and I don't want my child there to start with.  

 

These are homeschooling parents who know that every family has their own ideas of what's acceptable and what's not. Is it any different than not wanting your child to watch certain movies or play certain video games at another person's house? 

It's different because you are not dictating what your son may do, but dictating what other people may do. It wouldn't be okay for you to tell others that they may not play videogames or read books you don't like or listen to rap music when your son is there. You can say you don't want him there, but you cannot tell people what to do in their homes, especially when their behavior is commonly accepted to be appropriate, normal, and responsible. While your beliefs may say that alcohol is wrong, many people in this country use alcohol responsibly. It would never even cross my mind not to have a glass of wine with my dinner because a child's friend was over. I  would never drink to excess, get drunk, drink and drive, etc- with my own children or anyone else's. But alcohol is a beverage, and having one drink does not make most adults altered in any appreciable way. I think you have to decide if it's a big enough boundary that you don't want your son there, but honestly it seems rather controlling- we live in a culture where alcohol is used, and your son will have exposure to it. Hiding it away and acting like it's not there is not teaching him to handle temptation, peer pressure, etc. I do think it's fine to have a conversation about storage, or about boundaries with kids, like just mentioning that you would prefer your son not be offered any and check that its locked up. 

[Amira]

 

Why is asking a parent not to drink when your child is in their home rude? When these two get together, they play for 3 hours or so. If a parent can't go 3 hours without a drink out of respect for my wishes, I think they have a drinking problem and I don't want my child there to start with.  

 

I really can't think of any circumstance that would make me comfortable with asking someone not to do something perfectly legal in their home that they enjoy.  I wouldn't care to have someone over who asked me to not eat gluten, or red dye, or chocolate, or whatever, while they were at my house. I would be happy to not feed them or their child a given food, but I get to eat what I want in my home, even if they think I am making a bad choice.

 

I would never presume to know whether an adult has a drinking problem simply because they don't choose to not drink when a neighbor child is visiting.  Again, I don't drink and never have (I'm a Mormon), but I cannot imagine even thinking about asking someone else to follow my rules in their home.  There are several ways to deal with this issue, but to me, asking adults not to drink in their homes is not an option.

[J-rap]

I understand your concern, but here is my take on it.  My husband and I are very moderate drinkers.  That is, I'll sometimes have a glass of wine with dinner and my husband will sometimes like a Scotch in the evening.   We are committed Christians who don't believe that alcohol is terrible depending on how you use it.  We have been very strict about this with our children, and although they have seen us partake moderately, they know they can never have it until they are 21.  (There's a lot more I could say about how we actually did that with our kids, but suffice it to say they all willingly waited until they were 21.  :))

 

My kids will NOT live in a church bubble all their lives, even though that might be nice.  (Sorry, I don't mean that sarcastically at all!)  Because of their interests and career choices (film, politics, etc.) they will definitely be out in the world.  I want them to know how to handle it responsibly, and I also want them to understand that Christianity isn't about legalism.  (i.e. no alcohol ever) 

 

So, all of that being said...  If they were younger and going to a Christian home whom who I knew and respected but very moderate alcohol was being served (and not overused), I would have no problem with it.  I figure it is yet another way they can learn that alcohol among adults can be used moderately and sensibly and even enjoyed but not overused.

 

We ARE very careful about alcohol use, however, and have told our kids that if ever they were in a situation where alcohol was overused, they need to leave that situation immediately, and that we would drop everything to get them. 

 

I do understand that you are from a family with an alcoholic background, so I know your concerns are greater than mine because of that, and you may find you have to come up with different rules for your kids.

 

Oh also, if friends of my children are over who I KNOW are from homes that do not partake in alcohol in any way, then I would not have a glass of wine with my dinner when they were there.  I would definitely respect that. 

[Tutor]

I don't drink (other than what soaks in to the communion wafer at Eucharist or sauces that may contain traces of alcohol after cooking) because of a family history of alcoholism. My husband does drink the occasional beer, cocktail, or glass of wine. 

 

We have let the kids know of my family history and the reasons why I choose not to drink. We have let the kids sample wine and beer in our home. They all take communion (one chooses to sip from the chalice, the rest dunk the wafer). We keep up a running conversation about alcohol, genetic tenancies toward addiction, how to identify and remove yourself from an uncomfortable or dangerous situation, etc and have decided not to forbid our children to be around alcohol or drinking when it is permissible for them to do so. 

 

At some point in their lives, they are going to have to address the issue of public or communal drinking on their own, so we've decided to introduce it to them slowly over time and demonstrate proper behavior and responses over time. It has worked well for us, although I advocate following the path with which you are most comfortable.

[gardenmom5]

 

Why is asking a parent not to drink when your child is in their home rude?

I will start with - I don't drink for religious reasons.

by even just "asking" another parent to NOT do something they are used to doing IN THEIR OWN HOME, just because your child is a guest in their home - is akin to YOU dictating what they may or may not do in their own home.  to me, unless you have reason to believe they routinely get drunk or give booze to kids, it is out of line.  (if they give booze to kids - that would be a legitimate reason to not allow your child to play with their child in their home.)  

 

 

(okay - how do I turn the goodies back on to use emotcons and other stuff?)

 

it is possible even for children of alcoholics to not "go there".   my maternal great-grandfathers' were both alcoholics.  several of my grandfather's brother's were alcoholics.  my grandfather was barely allowed to touch the stuff.  (apricot brandy at Christmas).  I grew up with a father who drank a couple beers or wine when friends were over.  it wasn't a problem, even though my parents were pretty permissive and allowed me a sip. (blech.)  my brother being introduced to pot at a CHURCH - was a problem.

[Ottakee]

To those who asked, our son that we sent with lots of extra pop is 25. He is mentally impaired and will never drive, live on his own, etc. but has great social skills and occ. will be somewhere that people are drinking. We also have the policy that he is to call us IMMEDIATELY if things start going bad, he needs a ride home (as he is NEVER to get in a car with anyone who had even 1 drink--he can't figure out if it is 1 or 2 or too many or safe, etc. so we have the hard fast rule), he is uncomfortable, etc. that we will come and get him right away, no matter the time with NO questions asked.

 

Always give your kids the out of making you the "bad guy" by saying "mom is on her way to get me" etc.

 

As to the mitochondrial stuff. It is a mitochondrial myopathy and honestly I don't understand all what alcohol does to it, I just know they need to avoid all alcohol.

[LostSurprise]

It's not a matter of whether someone can go 3 hours or not without a drink, it's a matter of whether they find your son's presence comfortable enough to re-order their normal lives to accommodate your rules. Just as you have the right to withhold your son from their home, they have the right not to invite him for casual encounters if that means they have to constantly edit their normal behavior. 

 

My children have some friends with very specific needs or parental rules. While I like those children I only invite them over when I feel ready to accommodate those needs. Over time it's a different kind of friendship. Not as close. Not as comfortable (certainly not for me). Often the friendship falls away because it depends on changing who we are.

 

I am myself not a drinker, although I will use it in cooking occasionally. I don't like it. I personally don't see any need for it...ever...for anyone. However, I realize that I am in a minority. Many, maybe even most, people drink alcohol. Most will at least try alcohol and then make a decision for themselves. Your children will try alcohol. Your children may even drink alcohol. My children will try alcohol. My children may even drink. 

 

When dealing with this situation, what I remind myself most is my children are not me. They like different things than I do. They will make different decisions than I have. What I am doing here is not pretending that I can make my children hold my values. I pray and hope that they do, but I am making sure I do not build a wall that my children will disappear behind the moment I no longer have all control over their lives. I protect them in their younger ages. I arm them with information. I model a healthy, balanced life, then I make sure those value walls in my life have a door where they can observe others, think critically about, and possibly...eventually...even try the things that I choose not to have in my life. That's part of becoming an adult. The door is there so we can communicate, so they can come back to my side (hopefully). 

 

In my mind, having friends who lead different lives than we do (without being dangerous or indoctrinating my children) is a good thing. That is part of having a door in the wall, allowing teens to see that other people lead different lives and do so responsibly. Sometimes it means viewing what the consequences are to these actions. 

 

Again, maybe this is years off for your son. Ten is young to visit a home that has values different from your own. Perhaps in a few years. But I think it is a valuable tool to keep in mind for the future. In my family of origin there were many walls which we were not allowed to go, strangely alcohol was more open to discussion...even though my father is a tee-totaler for religious reasons. Looking back, there are many rigid value-walls my siblings went behind, in secrecy, but because my father espoused a fairly open discussion on alcohol almost everyone waited until they were 21 and are there are no big drinkers even to this day (even my fairly wild sister). 

[Mrs Mungo]

Thanks for all the responses. It definitely will give me some things to think about. My whole take on it is that if you never start drinking, you never have to stop. I've lived my entire life without drinking and don't feel I've been denied anything because of that choice. To me, I don't see how there is any benefit or need to drink alcohol. Drinking can, however, be a cause of many, many problems.

Lots of things CAN be the cause of problems, but that doesn't mean that they WILL be.

 

I did not know there would be drinking at this party because the party was intended to be for children. I assume that the drinking started after the other children left, but ds stayed due to our not being able to pick him up. This child invites ds over a lot, but often we have other things going on that would make it difficult to pick him up later. They live 25-30 minutes from our home.

What do you mean when you say "the drinking started?" Were they doing shots or were they having a glass of wine? Having wine or a beer around kids is extremely normal in my circles.

 

I do feel comfortable talking with this mom about it, but I wanted to hear how others felt first. 

 

Why is asking a parent not to drink when your child is in their home rude? When these two get together, they play for 3 hours or so. If a parent can't go 3 hours without a drink out of respect for my wishes, I think they have a drinking problem and I don't want my child there to start with.

The bottom line implication, if you made such a demand? Is that you don't trust them not to get drunk and incapacitated around your child. You automatically assume they have a drinking problem, if they take offense at that implication? If you don't trust them and/or you have a problem with the environment in their home, then you *shouldn't* take your child there. You shouldn't try to control normal, perfectly legal adult behavior in that adult's own home. What you can control is where you children go. If you feel this strongly about it, then don't let your kids go in those homes.

[fraidycat]

We don't drink. It's not for any particular reason other than the fact that we just don't care to do it. We do have some alcohol in the house that was given to us as gifts. I think I'll make vanilla with the vodka.

 

I am of the mind that the more you make something off limits, the more kids/teens will want to do it if/when they reach their rebellious stage. We talk about smoking, drugs, and alcohol. With a giant PLEASE DO NOT EVER on the first two, and use responsibly on the third, when you're old enough. My kids are 11 and 7 and we are already having these conversations. So, no I would not ban them from going to a house with alcohol. Heck, we'd have NO friends if we did that, nor would they be able to visit my family. None of whom are big drinkers, but all of them will have the occasional social drink with guests, so have houses "stocked" accordingly.

[zoobie]

Why is asking a parent not to drink when your child is in their home rude? When these two get together, they play for 3 hours or so. If a parent can't go 3 hours without a drink out of respect for my wishes, I think they have a drinking problem and I don't want my child there to start with.

 

These are homeschooling parents who know that every family has their own ideas of what's acceptable and what's not. Is it any different than not wanting your child to watch certain movies or play certain video games at another person's house?

It comes across that you think the person will get ripping drunk and not take care of your child. I can't think of a time where I've had a kid over in the middle of the day where I'd be drinking, but if the kid were staying for dinner, there's a chance my DH might have a beer. Would a LDS member ask someone else not to drink coffee in her own house? I'd be so floored if someone asked me that I'd probably stammer an "um, sure" and then think it was so odd I'd not want to encourage future play dates.

 

What do you do in restaurants? Sporting events or concerts? Airplanes? Lots of international travel would be out... America is fairly restrictive with alcohol compared to other places.

[gardenmom5]

To those who asked, our son that we sent with lots of extra pop is 25. He is mentally impaired

As to the mitochondrial stuff. It is a mitochondrial myopathy and honestly I don't understand all what alcohol does to it, I just know they need to avoid all alcohol.

your son is a different issue.

the mitochondrial myopathy stuff and alcohol is it exacerbates symptoms of muscle weakness.  so yes, he should avoid it just for that reason alone.   (and any other is up to you.).

 

. Would a LDS member ask someone else not to drink coffee in her own house?

people can do what they want in their own house.  my house, my rules.  I wasn't thrilled when my sister brought her starbucks (I loath the smell of coffee) - but I was downright pissed when she started complaining about having to go to starbucks to get her coffee fix.  perhaps she thought she was being funny, but considering the fractious relationship due to how we were reared, it wasn't very bright.    my mother never asked for coffee in my house.  (and I didn't look at her freeze dried coffee crystals she'd dump in a glass of milk at her house.  it grossed me out.  even before I became LDS.)

 

I do have friends who are required by their employment to host business colleagues.  on those occasions, they will have alcohol available as mandated by their employeer - or hosting venue.  my nephew had his wedding reception at a gallery that insisted that have a hosted bar. .  . . um, what part of almost no one coming drinks didn't you understand?   the gallery lost money on that.  I think a couple of his wife's law partners were the only ones who got drinks.

[wintermom]

Thanks for all the responses. It definitely will give me some things to think about. My whole take on it is that if you never start drinking, you never have to stop. I've lived my entire life without drinking and don't feel I've been denied anything because of that choice. To me, I don't see how there is any benefit or need to drink alcohol. Drinking can, however, be a cause of many, many problems. 

 

I did not know there would be drinking at this party because the party was intended to be for children. I assume that the drinking started after the other children left, but ds stayed due to our not being able to pick him up. This child invites ds over a lot, but often we have other things going on that would make it difficult to pick him up later. They live 25-30 minutes from our home.  

 

I do feel comfortable talking with this mom about it, but I wanted to hear how others felt first. 

 

Why is asking a parent not to drink when your child is in their home rude? When these two get together, they play for 3 hours or so. If a parent can't go 3 hours without a drink out of respect for my wishes, I think they have a drinking problem and I don't want my child there to start with.  

 

These are homeschooling parents who know that every family has their own ideas of what's acceptable and what's not. Is it any different than not wanting your child to watch certain movies or play certain video games at another person's house? 

 

I look on alcohol in a similar way to junk food;  both can be very unhealthy when over-used, and there are probably more people suffering with health issues from over-eating than over-drinking in North America. As a parent, I have years of modeling healthy eating and drinking behaviour and years of telling them about the effects of over-eating and over-drinking in my own home to my children. I also know that they'll see junk food and wine bottles in the grocery store, and that they'll probably see others eat and drink in restaurants, on public streets, in their own homes, or other places. I am not going to be able to control everything in the environment.

 

The important thing for the long-term is going to be the choices that they ultimately make for themselves. If they see others eating and drinking in moderation, or refusing certain foods and drinks and asking for alternatives, then they will have some ideas of how to navigate through life in all kinds of situations they will likely encounter. Self-control for all kinds of food, drink, substances and activities is a good thing to learn. Age 10 is certainly old enough for a child to be able to understand that too large an amount of food or drink is unhealthy. They may even have experienced it themselves with eating too much candy all in one go. They can understand that a sore tummy is the body trying to tell you that this isn't so great for you, so don't eat so much. The same can go for alcohol. When you experience a head-ache, it's a great natural consequence to tell you that you did too much. Sure, you don't ever have to experience that head-ache, but it's not the end of the world if you do learn that way.

 

In general, if I was unsure about whether a parent's behaviour was going to be appropriate, I wouldn't leave my child with that parent. An adult drinking a glass or two of alcohol in their own home is appropriate and I wouldn't have a problem with it. They could even eat a whole bag of chips and offer some to my child (and my children can politely accept or decline). My children know what kinds of movies and video games they are allowed to play at friends' houses, and if they aren't sure they just phone home to ask. I don't expect the friends' parents to know all my rules and change their home to accomodate me, I expect my children to know my rules and make good choices no matter where they are.

[planner]

The only way I would prohibit my children from going to a home where alcohol is consumed is if my goal was to socially isolate my child.  Since I don't have that goal, I don't have that rule.  My kids would have only have Mormon friends if I had that rule.  Yes, I'm a Mormon so my kids do have Mormon friends.  I don't want them to only have Mormon friends though. That's weird.

 

I am very open with my children about being aware that alcohol is in a particular friend's home and having conversations with them regarding the day when their friend asks them to have a drink.  I am instructing them in the way I would like them to handle the situation.  Hopefully the conversations I have with them will influence their actions.

 

The last thing that I want is for my children to not socialize with others simply because there is alcohol in the home.  We'd miss out on a lot of wonderful relationships.

[Guest]

Thanks for all the responses. It definitely will give me some things to think about. My whole take on it is that if you never start drinking, you never have to stop. I've lived my entire life without drinking and don't feel I've been denied anything because of that choice. To me, I don't see how there is any benefit or need to drink alcohol. Drinking can, however, be a cause of many, many problems. 

 

I did not know there would be drinking at this party because the party was intended to be for children. I assume that the drinking started after the other children left, but ds stayed due to our not being able to pick him up. This child invites ds over a lot, but often we have other things going on that would make it difficult to pick him up later. They live 25-30 minutes from our home.  

 

I do feel comfortable talking with this mom about it, but I wanted to hear how others felt first. 

 

Why is asking a parent not to drink when your child is in their home rude? When these two get together, they play for 3 hours or so. If a parent can't go 3 hours without a drink out of respect for my wishes, I think they have a drinking problem and I don't want my child there to start with.  

 

These are homeschooling parents who know that every family has their own ideas of what's acceptable and what's not. Is it any different than not wanting your child to watch certain movies or play certain video games at another person's house? 

 

Because it sounds mistrustful and paranoid. It would be like sending your kid to a friend's birthday party and then telling the host not to serve birthday cake because your family does not eat sugar. He might see other kids eating sugar and enjoying it and may eventually decide he wants to eat sugar, too. 

 

I drink alcohol infrequently. I don't especially care about having it, but I have it once in a while. It has never crossed my mind to be concerned if somebody else's child was in my home when I chose to have a glass of wine. If you were asking me to not have a glass of wine while your son was there? I would not care about not having my glass of wine, but I would think you were being extreme and pretty strange. 

 

And BTW, I don't tell people what to watch or what video games to play when my kids are there. The kids know what they are allowed to watch and what they are not. I leave them to say (if it should come up), "I'm not allowed to play Grand Theft Auto 5." Will they always do this? Maybe. Maybe not. But that's growing up. Now, obviously, if I had good information that the parents allowed anything...monitored their children's movies and videos ZERO, then I would simply not allow my kid to go there. The end. Likewise, if I knew the parents drank excessively, held alcohol up as a get-smashed party prop, then - same. My kid would go there never. But if they drink a beer while watching the football game? Meh. This matters to me zero. Kids don't become alcoholics because they were at a friend's house while the dad had a beer watching the Ravens vs. Steelers. 

[Luanne]

When my daughter was younger I did not allow her to go to people's houses where they drank.  I didn't think it was a good environment for her.  She is 25 now and hasn't even tried alcohol.  I think that is a good thing.

[GSOchristie]

Honestly, if I didn't let my kids go to people's houses where there was alcohol present (I mean in the refrigerator or pantry or whatever), they would never see anyone!  Even people I know who don't drink will keep wine or whatever for cooking.  If the parents were getting drunk while my children were under their supervision, that wouldn't be acceptable, but simply having it in the house doesn't bother me at all.

 

Disclaimer: I do drink alcohol, so my perspective may not be what you're looking for.

 

This is what I was thinking, we don't drink very often, like maybe wine every six months or so, but we have alcohol in our house, not locked up.  I don't know anyone who doesn't have alcohol in their house, we don't hang out with heavy drinkers, but everyone drinks some.

[Luanne]

Because it sounds mistrustful and paranoid. It would be like sending your kid to a friend's birthday party and then telling the host not to serve birthday cake because your family does not eat sugar. He might see other kids eating sugar and enjoying it and may eventually decide he wants to eat sugar, too. 

 

I drink alcohol infrequently. I don't especially care about having it, but I have it once in a while. It has never crossed my mind to be concerned if somebody else's child was in my home when I chose to have a glass of wine. If you were asking me to not have a glass of wine while your son was there? I would not care about not having my glass of wine, but I would think you were being extreme and pretty strange. 

 

And BTW, I don't tell people what to watch or what video games to play when my kids are there. The kids know what they are allowed to watch and what they are not. I leave them to say (if it should come up), "I'm not allowed to play Grand Theft Auto 5." Will they always do this? Maybe. Maybe not. But that's growing up. Now, obviously, if I had good information that the parents allowed anything...monitored their children's movies and videos ZERO, then I would simply not allow my kid to go there. The end. Likewise, if I knew the parents drank excessively, held alcohol up as a get-smashed party prop, then - same. My kid would go there never. But if they drink a beer while watching the football game? Meh. This matters to me zero. Kids don't become alcoholics because they were at a friend's house while the dad had a beer watching the Ravens vs. Steelers. 

 

There is a huge difference between drinking alcohol and eating sugar.  I can't eat gluten, but wouldn't complain about others eating it around me.  It is only me that will get sick if I eat it.  However, if anyone else is drinking enough alcohol, they will get drunk no matter who they are.

[Mrs Mungo]

There is a huge difference between drinking alcohol and eating sugar.  I can't eat gluten, but wouldn't complain about others eating it around me.  It is only me that will get sick if I eat it.  However, if anyone else is drinking enough alcohol, they will get drunk no matter who they are.

People having one drink aren't continuing to drink until falling down drunk. There is an extremely wide range of behavior with regard to what "drinking" means to people.

[Guest]

 

There is a huge difference between drinking alcohol and eating sugar.  I can't eat gluten, but wouldn't complain about others eating it around me.  It is only me that will get sick if I eat it.  However, if anyone else is drinking enough alcohol, they will get drunk no matter who they are.

 

I could have missed it in this long thread, but I don't think the OP has said any of the people drinking alcohol were drunk. 

 

I have drinks from time to time, but I am hard-pressed to remember being drunk anytime in the last 20 years. 

[laundrycrisis]

Honestly, I think you are really over-reacting to the presence of alcohol in someone else's home, and adults enjoying a casual drink in a social setting.    I get that the alcohol sets off some kind of mental alarm for you....but for most people, it does not.  And my experience with other families, and our own, is that most people who drink on occasion and have alcohol in their homes are not problem drinkers or alcoholics, and children are perfectly safe in their home.

 

The homes I would worry about are the ones where children are left unsupervised a lot of the time - either from the adults being gone, or so absorbed in their own thing that nobody watches the kids and the kids pretty much run loose.  IMO that situation is far more alarming than just a family that has some alcohol around.  

[Mom in High Heels]

As a casual drinker, I can't imagine someone telling me I can't have a glass of wine while their child is in my house.  It's MY house.  I'm not getting drunk, I'm just having a drink.  I can see if I were drinking at 10am, but at 5 or 6 in the evening, I don't see the problem.  We've been to plenty of late afternoon/evening parties for kids where there was wine and beer for the parents.  I don't think it's that big of a deal, unless someone gets ripping drunk.  From the description you gave, it doesn't seem like anyone was.  

You can't shield your children from alcohol.  It's everywhere; on TV, radio, billboards, grocery stores, gas stations, etc.  You can't shield them from everything.  

After living in Europe for so long, and seeing how their attitude is over alcohol (don't make a big deal about it and it won't become one), we've adopted that philosophy.  Indy tried Rattler (half beer, half lemonade) at Oktoberfest and hated it.  He tried Lambrusco in Rome and loved it.  He had 1 sip and knew he wasn't supposed to have more.  We let him taste the wines we drink.  He likes some and hates others.  He doesn't try to sneak any, or beg for more.  He knows it can be addictive and knows that unless we give it to him (and we only ever give him a taste), he should not drink.  We're not concerned about it.  We don't make a big deal about alcohol (we don't believe it's the great evil), so to him, it's not a big deal; it's just something grown ups drink every now and then with a meal or while watching TV or reading.  

[zoobie]

There is a huge difference between drinking alcohol and eating sugar. I can't eat gluten, but wouldn't complain about others eating it around me. It is only me that will get sick if I eat it. However, if anyone else is drinking enough alcohol, they will get drunk no matter who they are.

If you eat enough sugar, you can get very ill, even if you're not diabetic. You can die from drinking too much water. Cinnamon and nutmeg can kill you. Lots of household items can be dangerous. People huff glue. Get high on cough medicine. Get high on prescription meds. OD on vitamins or OTC meds.

 

If you think the people you're leaving your kids with are irresponsible and dangerous to themselves or others, don't leave your kids with them.

[Danestress]

If you eat enough sugar, you can get very ill, even if you're not diabetic. You can die from drinking too much water. Cinnamon and nutmeg can kill you. Lots of household items can be dangerous. People huff glue. Get high on cough medicine. Get high on prescription meds. OD on vitamins or OTC meds.

 

If you think the people you're leaving your kids with are irresponsible and dangerous to themselves or others, don't leave your kids with them.

Ok, I am not just a drinker. I am an almost daily drinker. One drink a day - rarely more.

 

But alcohol is dangerous. It is arguably a poison, and it ruins lives. It ruins lives in one night of drinking. It kills judgment, lowers inhibitions, messes up reflexes. There is a reason bar fights happen in bars. There is a reason men who want to take advantage of women often try to get them drinking.

 

I am not at all ashamed of my drink a day, because I know I am one if those lucky people who really just wants one and doesn't need or want a second. And actually, sugar is evil. It is a menace to health. But alcohol causes tragedies on a different level.

 

To me part of being a responsible drinker is recognizing that alcohol is a social danger. It is worse than nutmeg and cinnamon in this respect, and arguing otherwise seems sort of immature.

[Plink]

It is rude to force your extreme views on others.  Don't ask.  

 

If you don't want your child there, then simply keep him home, but you will ruin any chance of friendship if you try to tell them what to do in their own house.  It will come across as not only controlling, but judgmental.

 

(For the record - I'm usually someone who is all for open communication, but that doesn't mean that I have the right to insult people)

 

 

[zoobie]

Ok, I am not just a drinker. I am an almost daily drinker. One drink a day - rarely more.

 

But alcohol is dangerous. It is arguably a poison, and it ruins lives. It ruins lives in one night of drinking. It kills judgment, lowers inhibitions, messes up reflexes. There is a reason bar fights happen in bars. There is a reason men who want to take advantage of women often try to get them drinking.

 

I am not at all ashamed of my drink a day, because I know I am one if those lucky people who really just wants one and doesn't need or want a second. And actually, sugar is evil. It is a menace to health. But alcohol causes tragedies on a different level.

 

To me part of being a responsible drinker is recognizing that alcohol is a social danger. It is worse than nutmeg and cinnamon in this respect, and arguing otherwise seems sort of immature.

Thanks for the maturity judgment, there.

 

My point was that the fact alcohol can be dangerous if abused does not make it okay to ask other people to change their behavior on the chance your child might see it and one day become an alcoholic. It's an overreaching oversimplification.

 

I'm guessing it's statistically more likely for a person in the US to have detrimental health effects from diabetes than alcoholism.

 

Prescription drug abuse is a HUGE problem in this country. Should she ask the parents not to take medicine in front of him?

[DianeW88]

I'm LDS, and we do not consume alcohol.  Having said that, my children have been to the homes of friends whose parents are not LDS, and who do consume alcohol (my dd's best friend's mom used to some pot at home in her bedroom on occasion...I didn't forbid my dd from going over there either).  It's never even crossed my mind to not allow them to visit there.  I would also never presume to dictate to someone what they could do in their own home if my child were present.  My two oldest kids are now adults.  Neither one of them has ever tried alcohol, nor had a desire to do so, in spite of being around friends who drink (we have very open conversations here).  It was not a lure....it was actually a deterrent. 

 

And adults who drink responsibly are not going to behave in a way that draws negative attention to themselves.  I doubt my kids even noticed if one of their friend's parents had a glass of wine or a beer.  They didn't advertise it to my kids or anything like that.

[DianeW88]

Would a LDS member ask someone else not to drink coffee in her own house? 

 

I'm LDS, and I don't care if you drink coffee in MY house. :D  My moral standards are mine alone.  I don't impose them on others.  I won't be making you coffee, but if you have a Starbucks in hand when you stop by, I'm not going to make you pour it down the drain.  That would be incredibly rude.

[Parrothead]

 

 

Why is asking a parent not to drink when your child is in their home rude?

 

Because one does not tell other adults what to do in their own home.  It would be like my asking you not to use a kitchen knife while my kid was at your house. 

 

If you don't want you kid exposed to what other people do with alcohol, sharp pointy instruments, firearms, power tools, cigarettes or bathroom cleaner then keep him home.  All of those things can be dangerous, yet none are illegal.  You can't tell another adult what to do in his/her home. You can't tell another adult how to run his/her life. If said adult does things that you don't approve of, then it is in your best interest to limit contact. 

[Parrothead]

If I hear the word "party" I automatically assume alcohol is involved in some manner.  Even if it is a kid party, the mom or dad may have a glass of wine.  I have no problem with that.  Heck, this past Saturday, my dd watched one of my relatives get pretty sloshed. 

[LucyStoner]

For the record, I am a very light drinker. I might have 1-2 drinks every 3-6 weeks or I might go months without any. We have had a few bottles longer than we have had out younger son, who turns 5 in a month (really? 5 in a month? When did that happen?! Anyway, I digress). I am a recovering st8 edge, lol.

That said, if someone asked me not to drink in my own home even on a very casual/light basis, I would consider it an overreaching and ruder than rude request. You either trust me or you don't.
If you think I would drink to excess, you don't know me well enough to leave your young child with me. I wouldn't necessarily want someone who tried to control others like that in my life or influencing my children. We personally don't watch TV or allow nerf guns or serve junky foods. We exercise and stretch everyday. We are religious about flossing. But if my kid eats crappy Mac and Cheese from a box with non cheese orange junk at your house or you take them and buy them Taco Bell or they don't floss or exercise at your house or play with your toy guns, I am not going to worry or fret it. Different house, different rules (barring things like allergies or whatnot.)

[AlmiraGulch]

To me part of being a responsible drinker is recognizing that alcohol is a social danger. 

 

There is no danger when used responsibly.  

[Word Nerd]

That said, if someone asked me not to drink in my own home even on a very casual/light basis, I would consider it overreaching and ruder than rude request. You either trust me or you don't.

If you think I would drink to excess, you don't know me well enough to leave your young child with me.

This. I think it's presumptuous at the very least.

 

I also see a difference between asking that *your child* not be permitted to play or watch something while at someone else's home and asking *adults* to let you determine what is appropriate behavior for them in their own home.

[Danestress]

Thanks for the maturity judgment, there.

 

My point was that the fact alcohol can be dangerous if abused does not make it okay to ask other people to change their behavior on the chance your child might see it and one day become an alcoholic. It's an overreaching oversimplification.

 

I'm guessing it's statistically more likely for a person in the US to have detrimental health effects from diabetes than alcoholism.

 

Prescription drug abuse is a HUGE problem in this country. Should she ask the parents not to take medicine in front of him?

 

 

 

I didn't think she should ask someone not to drink, so no, I don't think she should ask someone not to take property prescribed medication.  I think if the OP is that concerned about it, she should simply not leave her child there, rather than trying to exert control over someone else's moderate drinking.  

 

But I do understand why the OP might feel upset that someone caring for her child had been drinking, and I am trying to look at it from her perspective.  Alcohol can be dangerous.  If I hired a sitter and found out she was drinking, I would be upset - even one drink.  If I found out the pilot of a plane had just one drink, I would be furious about it, because even one drink impairs  judgment just a bit.  So really, its a matter of degrees. Even one drink will impair judgment, but for most of us, that isn't really important if we are not driving, operating machinery, etc.  But pilots and air traffic control operators really can't drink before a shift - even if they are big men who can "handle" their alcohol. The gun owners I know don't carry a concealed weapon and drink even one drink.  ER nurses don't have a drink with dinner before reporting for work etc.  I feel fine having a drink and being a Mom on the same night.  But I understand someone not feeling ok about that for their child, and I think the OP is taking some heat, so I am trying to see the argument from her side. 

 

Alcohol is simply more dangerous, even in moderation, than cinnamon or nutmeg.  When my son went off the college, we talked a lot about alcohol, responsible drinking, looking out for your friends if they have been drinking, etc.  I neglected to mention nutmeg:)

 

I am not sure where the diabetes thing is coming from. Yes, it creates long term health risks.  The diabetics I know seem to control their blood sugar well and I would feel my children were safe in their care.

[ktgrok]

here is the thing...either you are worried they will get drunk around your child (which is insulting to them) or you are morally opposed to drinking in any form, which they will find offensive as they do drink, and if you think it is morally bad/sinful, you must think they are sinful, so they will be insulted. 

 

Now, that said, we drink. We have beer in the house most of the time, in the fridge (who on earth locks up beer/wine?), wine on the counter or in the fridge, and a high shelf full of half full bottles of hard liquor, most of which is left over from a christmas party we had 2 years ago. Some of that is the scotch and whiskey that my husband drinks. He has one glass of scotch every night. I have a glass of wine a few times a week. None of this is locked up. But that's because I wouldn't expect any kids to be getting into it! They know better, and I'm sure your son knows better. 

 

Oh, I should say that we usually don't drink if there are kids over, unless it is a party. And we always have one non drinker if there are kids over, so we have a driver if need be. 

 

That said, I haven't been drunk in many many years. But...I find nothing morally wrong with being a bit drunk/tipsy if at home and in a safe setting, so my opinion may not matter. 

[Lisa R.]

 

 

Why is asking a parent not to drink when your child is in their home rude? When these two get together, they play for 3 hours or so. If a parent can't go 3 hours without a drink out of respect for my wishes, I think they have a drinking problem and I don't want my child there to start with.  

 

 

Why is this rude? Because telling adults how they should act in their own home is rude. It just is. 

 

There is no way to phrase this without sounding controlling or judgmental. Please do not even consider doing this. 

 

The use of alcohol sounds as this is an area of fear in your life. (Please know I'm saying this gently.) If I were you I'd ask myself why this concern is so great that you'd consider imposing a personal conviction on someone else in their own home.  I would also say that if you start restricting your children from visiting houses where alcohol is simply present, it shows that fear of that alcohol exists. You fear your children seeing adults enjoy an alcoholic beverage. You fear your child sneaking alcohol at their friend's house. You fear that they might one day drink socially if they view this as a child. 

 

I saw all of the above as a person who does not drink due to alcohol abuse in past generations. I do not think it is wrong, but I also do not care to have it in my house. 

 

Strong, personal convictions are fine and good. We can hold to these and teach our children how these convictions were reached. When we feel so strongly that we are willing to impose these convictions on others, we are overreaching. The longer I live, the more I see that good people reach different conclusions and have different standards on issues. Even within the Christian community, I see people coming to strong conclusions that differ with other good Christians. That shouldn't be cause not to fellowship with them. 

 

Let your children see you and your husband enjoy yourselves without alcohol. That is powerful. Let them see you socialize alchohol-free and enjoy those that drink alcohol and those that don't. 

[Coffeetime]

I didn't think she should ask someone not to drink, so no, I don't think she should ask someone not to take property prescribed medication.  I think if the OP is that concerned about it, she should simply not leave her child there, rather than trying to exert control over someone else's moderate drinking.  

 

But I do understand why the OP might feel upset that someone caring for her child had been drinking, and I am trying to look at it from her perspective.  Alcohol can be dangerous.  If I hired a sitter and found out she was drinking, I would be upset - even one drink.  If I found out the pilot of a plane had just one drink, I would be furious about it, because even one drink impairs  judgment just a bit.  So really, its a matter of degrees. Even one drink will impair judgment, but for most of us, that isn't really important if we are not driving, operating machinery, etc.  But pilots and air traffic control operators really can't drink before a shift - even if they are big men who can "handle" their alcohol. The gun owners I know don't carry a concealed weapon and drink even one drink.  ER nurses don't have a drink with dinner before reporting for work etc.  I feel fine having a drink and being a Mom on the same night.  But I understand someone not feeling ok about that for their child, and I think the OP is taking some heat, so I am trying to see the argument from her side. 

 

Alcohol is simply more dangerous, even in moderation, than cinnamon or nutmeg.  When my son went off the college, we talked a lot about alcohol, responsible drinking, looking out for your friends if they have been drinking, etc.  I neglected to mention nutmeg:)

 

I am not sure where the diabetes thing is coming from. Yes, it creates long term health risks.  The diabetics I know seem to control their blood sugar well and I would feel my children were safe in their care.

But she didn't say that someone caring for her child had been drinking. She said that some of the adults were drinking. Not the mom who was watching her son. Her concern wasn't that the person caring for her son was impaired. Her concern was that her son would see an alcoholic drink in the hand of an adult. 

[MomatHWTK]

Having thought about some of the comments, I have come to realized that I actually don't allow my kids to go to other childrens' homes.  For better or worse, we are "those" parents.  Now my oldest has serious health issues that made him an exceptional case and we may be more free with our younger children, but we aren't yet.  OP, if you are not yet ready for your children to be exposed to ideas and activities that don't conform to your own then you probably should be more restrictive in choosing where they go.  But, since you have also indicated that you do allow the children to go on visits, it is probably time for you to start working out your own plans for how that is going to look for your family. KWIM? 

[PeterPan]

Back to the op, did you actually talk with your dc about the experience?  What was his reaction?  What did he think of what he saw?  That would probably be pretty formative in my thinking too.  I think it's interesting that a percentage of the social drinkers here would say no big deal to your request and a greater percentage would be incredibly offended.  Means you have a strong chance of offending the person.  :(  

[Paige]

I think it may help you to identify more clearly why you would be bothered if your son visited friends' homes where alcohol was consumed and kept. What are you afraid will happen? If you flesh out that a bit more, and decide if your fears are rational or not, and how to approach the what-ifs, you may be able to come to a decision more easily. You don't need to tell us everything- just think it through...and just because most people would say your fears are not valid, does not mean it is not valid for your family.

 

I'm guessing it is one or more of these:

 

- You fear that your child will see alcohol normalized by adults he respects and that will negate what you have taught him about alcohol. We had a pastor who would not allow his child into the homes of people who consumed alcohol for that reason. It was a combination of him not wanting his child to lose respect for those people and he didn't want his child to think it was ok for church members to drink.

 

- You fear that it will cause your child to become more curious and interested in alcohol consumption if he sees people drinking it and enjoying it.

 

- You fear that your child will somehow have access to the alcohol in the home.

 

- You fear that the people in the home may drink too much alcohol and your child will not be safe.

 

My family of origin has a history of alcoholism and addiction and I can understand your fears, but we have chosen to socialize with people who drink. We used to not drink any alcohol, but now I may have something 1-3 times a year and I feel no guilt. While you may decide that you don't want your child to be in the home of people who drink, I think it is rude to ask them not to drink. It's ok to be rude sometimes if it is that important to you, but you should be prepared that they may see it as rude and it could negatively affect your relationship. It's rude because it is inherently judgmental. People don't like being judged. By asking them not to drink, you are implying that either you think that they are incapable of drinking responsibly, cannot provide adequate supervision, or that a social drink is morally harmful to your child.

[LucyStoner]

Honestly, I don't know if I would be offended so much as flabbergasted.  I would think the person making the request was a little off their rocker frankly.  I have wine around for cooking all the time.  I just can't see someone who thought it was their business to comment on that. 

 

I get that addiction is serious and real.  My father is an alcoholic, as was my FIL.  So I really get the concern.  But I don't see how preventing my sons from seeing light social drinking helps them avoid their genetic roulette.  If anything seeing people use but not abuse alcohol would seem beneficial to me.  I don't think that one beer in general impairs someone to the extent that they can't supervise a playdate.  And if I have 6 kids at my house, a drink sounds pretty good...

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I wonder if the OP has described the effects of drinking alcohol in such a way that her children believe that people become impaired and crazy with just one drink?  Is she afraid that if her children see a different outcome, that she will lose credibility with them?

 

 

[mom31257]

I am not concerned about losing credibility. I don't lie to my children or misrepresent things to them, and they know it. I'm a little insulted by that. 

 

Dh and I come from homes where drinking was non-existent. My home was not one it was super-preached against, but my parents didn't do it. Dh's home was one where it was very much condemned. We've gone to churches for years with people who never drink. This is the first time we've encountered this because we've been in very conservative circles, so I just wasn't sure how to go about handling it since we've never had to think about it or make these decisions before. 

 

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Gotcha, that makes good sense!  And that's the thing that would scare me.  I've got a girl.  Send a girl into a house where the dad is drinking on Sunday afternoon, the mom leaves for groceries...  No way, NO WAY.  I'm not saying that precise thing happened with us.  (people on the boards know us locally, so I'm clarifying!)  I'm just agreeing that you never really know what's going on and safe is better than sorry.

 

You honestly believe a father having a beer makes him a danger to your daughter?

You may want to consider counseling as that fear is not even remotely rational.  Anyone who you think is capable of such an act inebriated is certainly somehow you should also steer clear of when he is sober.

[Lisa R.]

Having thought about some of the comments, I have come to realized that I actually don't allow my kids to go to other childrens' homes.  For better or worse, we are "those" parents.  Now my oldest has serious health issues that made him an exceptional case and we may be more free with our younger children, but we aren't yet.  OP, if you are not yet ready for your children to be exposed to ideas and activities that don't conform to your own then you probably should be more restrictive in choosing where they go.  But, since you have also indicated that you do allow the children to go on visits, it is probably time for you to start working out your own plans for how that is going to look for your family. KWIM? 

 

This also does not seem like a good plan. Not ever allowing your children to go to our people's houses? Even if you know them? Yes, you may feel safer having controlled their environment to this extent, but you'll likely end up with new and different set of problems having these types of restrictions. Ever see kids who are underexposed to other people and environments and ideas and social situations? 

 

I'm all for making very, very sure about supervision and standards of the houses in which my young children socialize. However, not allowing it at all? This is fear that is unhealthy for your kids and will make them lose out on fun and also in learning how to navigate socially. 

 

OP, please don't follow this advice.

[unfrumpable.]

You honestly believe a father having a beer makes him a danger to your daughter?

You may want to consider counseling as that fear is not even remotely rational.  Anyone who you think is capable of such an act inebriated is certainly somehow you should also steer clear of when he is sober.

 

Yeah, my dad managed to be an alcoholic and raise two daughters. Really. I even had female friends who came to my house and stayed the night as well. Imagine that. Not talking to you CR, but to the post you were quoting. I must have missed it the first time through.

[Lisa R.]

 

 

Dh and I come from homes where drinking was non-existent. My home was not one it was super-preached against, but my parents didn't do it. Dh's home was one where it was very much condemned. We've gone to churches for years with people who never drink. This is the first time we've encountered this because we've been in very conservative circles, so I just wasn't sure how to go about handling it since we've never had to think about it or make these decisions before. 

It sounds like this is new territory for you. I think it's great you were open-minded enough to come to a large group of people here and discuss this issue. 

 

In the past, I've been around a group of people that share similar values to mine. Going outside of those circles is a good thing to do, but it is startling. That seems to be where you are right now. I think it's great that you're thinking through this, considering what is appropriate to say and do in these new circles. 

[unfrumpable.]

I am pretty amazed at a very small amount (thankfully) of the responses here.

 

Yes, if someone is working, having even one beer/drink is not a good idea. That goes for whether you are babysitting or flying a plane or ringing up groceries or whatever. That is a completely different situation than a person having a drink in their own home.

 

IMO, this goes beyond alcohol and is just about what a parent can and cannot control/limit/avoid/shelter in their children's lives. Reminds me of the song Harper Valley PTA.

[Reflections]

I think that if you are concerned about someone having alcohol in their home that you can see, you might also be worried about what you can't see.  There are lots of people on mood altering drugs - legal and illegal.  They usually keep those things out of sight.  You'll never know it.   What about what is on their computer?  Unless you log on, you'll not know what is on there either. 

 

When I allow my children to go over to someone else's home I take a risk that they will be exposed to something I would not like.  Allowing my children to grow up and become adults and leave my home to start a life on their own, then I am taking an even bigger risk.

 

But, you can not with any human decency ask people to be something they are not.  Especially not when it is within the sanctity of their own home.