Liberty Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Okay, I'm an educated person that is not prone to superstitions, but I'm beginning to wonder about this whole Illuminati business. My ds who turns 18 tomorrow is fully convinced there is an Illuminati that controls world governments. They are a group of people behind the scenes that control as much as they can in the world with money due to the fact they have control of world currencies. They also spy on everyone (hence, the whole PRISM thing). They planned the Boston Marathon bombing, 9-11, etc... (I don't believe this last bit, but many of those who have this belief system do). Does anyone on here believe this stuff? And, if so, would you be courageous enough to admit to it? Like I said, I truly don't believe major world disasters are being controlled by these people but do sometimes wonder about the economic systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Are they really controlling PRISM and 9-11? That must be an expansion set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 No, I don't think there's any sort of shady, world-wide conspiracy group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I don't, though the idea was fun to toy around with when I was your son's age. I think the world at the macro level is not that well organized. I do think there are extremely wealthy and influential people who use their influence for their own gain. There are also some who work for the greater good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Anyone who believes it probably won't post about it on such an open forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 My DH sort of believes in the whole world government the conspiracy thingy, but not into terrorist things being part of it. rather that the world financial crisis was engineered and that the big push worldwide for gay marriages is to distract people from other unknown at the moment matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I find it very hard to believe that enough influential/powerful people would or could cooperate to the mind-boggling extent that would be necessary to control world events in any meaningful way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 It's an intriguing idea to explore in novels, but I think that level of organization, influence, and secrecy isn't realistic or practical outside of fictional worlds. I know someone who believes the Bilderberg group is controlling governments around the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Eh, I believed similar things at 18. Now my beliefs are a little tamer, but definitely outside the mainstream. And yes, I believe in a lot of things that others would consider conspiracy theories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I think it makes for fascinating reading (especially the origins of the Illuminati in Bavaria in the 1700s - which appears to have been a real group). However, I don't believe there is one organized group today. That said, I think there is a lot more "behind the scenes coordination" going on between well-financed/well-connected individuals, companies and governments than we might believe. We only catch glimpses of that (like when PRISM came to light). IMO that's probably just the tip of the iceberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Now I need to go look up PRISM. The things I learn here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Now I need to go look up PRISM. The things I learn here! This is a good summary. Everything you need to know about PRISM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I find it very hard to believe that enough influential/powerful people would or could cooperate to the mind-boggling extent that would be necessary to control world events in any meaningful way. It's the things that are necessarily hidden and require only a few to be complicit that worry me. Like the Libor scandal. Everything Is Rigged: The Biggest Price-Fixing Scandal Ever http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/libor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbeym Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Our entire family believes in that. Maybe not the Illuminati per se, but someone is. There have been plenty of influential government leaders that have said they are working towards a one-world government so why shouldn't it be believed? OP, my DH thinks your DS is smart to be thinking that way. He'd be more than happy to chat with anyone that wants more information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Can't even begin to imagine how anyone who knows anything about how different political cultures work could believe in such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 No. Just no. If you find yourself falling down the rabbit hold of self affirming circular logic, take a break from the interwebs, read something classic and difficult, read something else classic and difficult, wipe your bookmarks and then try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 On a related note: http://mentalfloss.com/article/33497/8-government-conspiracy-theories-and-how-they-could-be-right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Dan Brown...paging Dan Brown.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 No, but I did just learn about an underground web router that lets you browse and communicate anonymously on the internet... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I need a tinfoil hat smiley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 This is a good summary. Everything you need to know about PRISM Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I'm not a believer. But I don't think it's as far-fetched as some like to scoff about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Given that I have little faith in the moral fortitude of most people, I have no problem thinking any if that could be true. I don't believe it per se because I have not found credible evidence of it and am not willing to sacrifice my current lifestyle to uncover convicting evidence. But when such things are uncovered? Yeah, I'm not even slightly surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 No. Just no. If you find yourself falling down the rabbit hold of self affirming circular logic, take a break from the interwebs, read something classic and difficult, read something else classic and difficult, wipe your bookmarks and then try again. And maybe pick up a few Logic & Critical Thinking workbooks. :blink: Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theYoungerMrsWarde Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I believe in the existence of secret society groups like the Illuminati. But I don't believe they are in control of everything. I believe there are super rich, influential people who get together and try to influence world events to their own goals, but again I'm not convinced of their scope and actual affect. (Should that be "effect?") (MY grandfather was a Free Mason for a while. He only talked about it once to me.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Well... for me belief is not an either/or, yes/no proposition. I love how Madeleine L'Engle put it on one of her novels, "a willing suspension of disbelief". I've read some novels, and they were't futuristic or sci-fi or anything that implied an International group that controlled the political destinies of countries, started wars for financial gain ( the one I read by Taylor Caldwell said that WW One was started by military industrialists to increase their profits) and all sorts of stuff like that. Do I actually believe that? Not really. But, I also think that that sort if thing is in the realm of possibility. Maybe not like the novel writers say, but... yes, power and money corrupt people and are addictive. Yes, I believe elections are bought and sold, here in the US and elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I think that the super rich have a lot more influence than they ought to, but I do not think it is a conspiracy, or even that they are malicious. I don't think that there are secret groups that dictate what the world does, but there are very public groups that do. The UN, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, and others that I'm sure I'm forgetting, all have a lot of influence on world governments, not to mention corporations. Large publically traded corporations have an obscene amount of power over governments. Because of funding (donations, loans, equity) and boards of directors (largely members of the super rich), all these groups tend to be controlled by the super rich. I don't think they're doing anything other than trying to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I think it makes for fascinating reading (especially the origins of the Illuminati in Bavaria in the 1700s - which appears to have been a real group). However, I don't believe there is one organized group today. That said, I think there is a lot more "behind the scenes coordination" going on between well-financed/well-connected individuals, companies and governments than we might believe. We only catch glimpses of that (like when PRISM came to light). IMO that's probably just the tip of the iceberg. This is almost exactly what I was going to say. I think there is a LOT happening that we don't know about. I don't think it's anything new. I don't even think that everyone involved "behind the scenes" has nefarious goals. Plus, more than a couple things that were treated with disdain because they were *so tinfoil* have actually turned out to be true. I'm willing to give a moment's consideration to a lot of things, but that doesn't mean I'll sign up to drink the kool-aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I don't believe humans are capable of that amount of sustained organization. Now if they are aliens, that's might be do-able. Not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Okay, I'm an educated person that is not prone to superstitions, but I'm beginning to wonder about this whole Illuminati business. My ds who turns 18 tomorrow is fully convinced there is an Illuminati that controls world governments. They are a group of people behind the scenes that control as much as they can in the world with money due to the fact they have control of world currencies. They also spy on everyone (hence, the whole PRISM thing). They planned the Boston Marathon bombing, 9-11, etc... (I don't believe this last bit, but many of those who have this belief system do). Does anyone on here believe this stuff? And, if so, would you be courageous enough to admit to it? Like I said, I truly don't believe major world disasters are being controlled by these people but do sometimes wonder about the economic systems. World economy is controlled by those who hold the capital, but it is far too complex and intricate a system to be totally controlled by a single group. There is a wealth of scholarly information on world economics and globalization well-written for laymen. I suggest you guide your son toward these works instead of a dry traditional macro econ class. Learn the facts about how IMF, EBC and similar organizations operate and why there are grassroots movements to fight the inequalities our current system perpetuates. Also check out periodicals like Skeptical Inquirer to sharpen son's critical thinking skills. Eventually he'll learn to discern between feasible small-scale (but nonetheless) conspiracies like price-fixing etc and the unlikeliness of Illuminati. Ask your son if the group who supposedly planned 9-11 would allow conspiracy theorists to convene periodically for hotel conventions to "reveal" the conspiracy? Why wouldn't the conspirators kill them or imprison them to keep them quiet? I do not know if anyone here believes "this stuff." Statistically it is likely that at least someone here probably does. Would anyone be courageous enough to admit it? Yes, probably. Many people here post their controversial unpopular opinions on a number of topics. Some of them have principled well-reasoned arguments; others ... not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Can't even begin to imagine how anyone who knows anything about how different political cultures work could believe in such a thing. well the thing is the more you find out about different cultures the more real the whole thing is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 well the thing is the more you find out about different cultures the more real the whole thing is. I would have to strongly disagree with that notion. I have studied a large variety of modern world cultures, extensively for scholarly paper requirements, from religious, political, etc perspectives. It is just not plausible when one is dealing with facts about how people and cultures operate, within and between cultures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 On a related note: http://mentalfloss.com/article/33497/8-government-conspiracy-theories-and-how-they-could-be-rightI think 4 of those are probable. The other 4 are just nutso. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Dan Brown...paging Dan Brown.... I'm hoping to finish his newest novel, Inferno, this evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I'm hoping to finish his newest novel, Inferno, this evening. That's my beach reading for next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 That's my beach reading for next week. It is much better than the last one. I can't remember the name. the one set in Washington, D.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 This thread reminds me of that scene in So I Married an Axe Murderer. You know, the one about . (caution: language) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 It is much better than the last one. I can't remember the name. the one set in Washington, D.C. I read the one set in DC on a plane home from Rome. Back to the impossible Illuminati discussion. (Of maybe I just say that because I am a member.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 This thread reminds me of that scene in So I Married an Axe Murderer. You know, the one about The Pentavirate. (caution: language) I know what I'm watching tonight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I think 4 of those are probable. The other 4 are just nutso. What information do you think the article's author and Mental Floss's research editors got wrong, and based on what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 I have enjoyed reading all of your responses and will relay them to my son, though he has become awfully convinced of the Illuminati's existence lately (I guess if you google one thing, it leads to another, then to another, etc, etc....the "rabbit hole" was a great description). Personally, I've never trusted most government leaders to do anything that wasn't first and foremost self-serving to themselves or their friends. That's how I was brought up, plus recent world events in my lifetime have solidified my beliefs. So, I can see how such an attitude, mixed with a bit of conspiracy theory, can result in such a worldview. Plus, when my dh and I went to Cancun last year and were at Chitzen Itza, they explained all about the Mayan calendar and how for hundreds and hundreds of years the Mayan leaders would keep detailed track of the weather each and every day (like an ancient farmer's almanac). Before long, they began to see cycles (droughts every 10 years, hurricane season every so many years, etc....). Well, they would keep this knowledge they'd amassed hidden from the common people who would believe the leaders to have direct links to the Gods because they could "predict" these events. The leaders used this info to convince them to bring offerings of gold, etc... to "appease the Gods" to prevent, say, a drought, when, in fact, the leaders secretly knew no droughts were expected for another decade. So, basically, what I'm saying is that since the earliest civilizations until today, I belive that people with great money and power will do everything in their power to keep it. Even if it means deceiving and manipulating the masses to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 My DH sort of believes in the whole world government the conspiracy thingy, but not into terrorist things being part of it. rather that the world financial crisis was engineered and that the big push worldwide for gay marriages is to distract people from other unknown at the moment matters. What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 This thread reminds me of that scene in So I Married an Axe Murderer. You know, the one about The Pentavirate. (caution: language) Ha! That's one of our favorite movies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happymomofboys Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 This is almost exactly what I was going to say. I think there is a LOT happening that we don't know about. I don't think it's anything new. I don't even think that everyone involved "behind the scenes" has nefarious goals. Plus, more than a couple things that were treated with disdain because they were *so tinfoil* have actually turned out to be true. I'm willing to give a moment's consideration to a lot of things, but that doesn't mean I'll sign up to drink the kool-aid. Government spying on American citizens was treated this way and then the NSA/PRISM thing broke loose. I'm not a conspiracy theorist of the tinfoil hat variety, but I'm not willing to dismiss anything as out of the realm of possibility when it comes to powerful people. If someone makes a claim, I want to see evidence, but I don't dismiss it as impossible just highly improbable. I also don't think that anyone involved in such decisions has nefarious goals... in fact, I think that in all likelihood any string pullers think they have the "best interest" of the people in mind. It is the kind of person or group who believes they have the means and power to do what's "best" for the people "for their own good" that concerns me most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 It is the kind of person or group who believes they have the means and power to do what's "best" for the people "for their own good" that concerns me most. That reminds me of one of my favorite C.S. Lewis quotes: "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 So, basically, what I'm saying is that since the earliest civilizations until today, I belive that people with great money and power will do everything in their power to keep it. Even if it means deceiving and manipulating the masses to do so. Duh. :) And it's probable most of them have psychopathic tendencies. But what is implicit in the notion of the Illuminati is cabals consciously directing effective control over political and financial world events, as opposed to seeing (ETA: aggregated) trends from people in positions of power working in their own limited and often short term self interest (religious organizations are more often the ones looking to consolidate power in the longer term, family dynasties the medium, at least in times past). The latter scenario is far more plausible. If you want to get your son something to chew on, get him a copies of Herman and Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent and The Psychopath Test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 My DH sort of believes in the whole world government the conspiracy thingy, but not into terrorist things being part of it. rather that the world financial crisis was engineered and that the big push worldwide for gay marriages is to distract people from other unknown at the moment matters. A push for equal rights for all is part of a grand conspiracy? Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 The psychopath test was fascinating. Read the whole thing in one sitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I love a good conspiracy theory. I find them fascinating. How much I believe in it depends on the day and my mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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