Who do you think is responsible here?

[plansrme]

Not legally (that would be me), but morally, who should pay? Here are the facts:

 

It was my turn to drive a three-way carpool after a kid thing. One of the carpoolees is 14 and sits in the front seat. She opened the car door and smacked the mirror of the car parked next to mine. It was a Hyundai something, and the impact cracked the frame around the mirror. I heard it crack, and the mark on my door lines up perfectly with the impact. Said child tries to brush it off, but I got out, left a note and snapped pictures of the damage. She could have gotten in the car without smacking the other car--it was not that tight.

 

I have not heard from the other driver yet, but I probably will. Nor have I heard from the mom, whom I do not know well. What would you expect from the other mom or from me? I expect a $500 repair.

[bettyandbob]

I would tell the parent of the child in the carpool what happened and that your left a note. AND then I'd wait. I wouldn't tell the parents I expected them to pay. If I were the child's parent, I would pay, but not everyone will. Some people will shrug. Some people will assume you will just make a claim for your own insurance to pay. Some people just don't think it is their responsibility and legally it is not. Hopefully, the parent will pay. If not, move on.

 

This kind of thing is a risk you take on as a result of the convenience of the carpool.

[Guest submarines]

$250 each.

[plansrme]

$250 each.

 

 

Why? If you were the other parent, would you offer half and feel your obligation had been met?

[Rosie_0801]

I think the kid ought to pay, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

[Guest submarines]

Why? If you were the other parent, would you offer half and feel your obligation had been met?

 

 

I'd feel that I'd be going above my call of duty by offering to pay half.

[plansrme]

I think the kid ought to pay, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

 

 

I admit that this is my thought as well. But I am interested to see if this is the majority view. Assuming they do not offer $$ if/when I hear from the other car's owner, I am wondering whether to dissolve the carpool.

[plansrme]

 

 

I'd feel that I'd be going above my call of duty by offering to pay half.

 

 

Above your call of duty as the other girl's parent or as me?

[chepyl]

The kids should pay for it all in cash or work. If patents won't pay, they should make theory child do it.

[Guest submarines]

Above your call of duty as the other girl's parent or as me?

 

 

As the other girl's parent.

I think the fault is 50/50.

[kewb]

I think the kid is 14 years olad and shrugged it off due to embarrassment.

As the parent I would offer to pay for repair and have my child work it off.

 

Realistically, most people would view it as an accident and expect your insurance to cover it.

 

I doubt I would dissolve the carpool over this one incident.

[plansrme]

 

 

As the other girl's parent.

I think the fault is 50/50.

 

 

How is it my fault? I am not trying to be argumentative, just tying to understand how the other parent might perceive it.

[Mom0012]

 

 

How is it my fault? I am not trying to be argumentative, just tying to understand how the other parent might perceive it.

 

 

Personally, I'd love to know how this could be perceived as your fault as well. I can't see it that way.

[Myra]

As the responsible adult taking on the supervision and safety of the kids in the carpool, I think this accident falls under your "watch" and, therefore, you are responsible for the payment. Sure...it would be nice if the other parent of the 14-year old child might offer to pay as a gesture, but I, personally, would feel obligated to pay the entire cost of the accident (involving my car with children I was responsible for - regardless if the accident was caused by a typical not thinking in the moment 14 year old or a even five year old who let the door get away from them) completely.

 

Myra

[soufflegirl]

Did you tell the other parent what happened? Or are you hoping the teenager did?

 

I suppose the other parent could think that you were parked too close to the other car and put the fault on you, especially if they are going on the word of a 14 year old who just wants to brush the whole thing off. Do you have pictures of how close the two cars were to each other?

 

That being said, regardless of how perfectly a car is parked, no good comes of wildly swinging doors open with enough force to break mirrors off other cars. Most parking lots around here do not have spots wide enough for you to actually open the door all the way - I don't know what it's like where you are.

[Plink]

All of the *shoulds* of the world are very different from reality.

 

She should have opened the door more slowly

You should have parked far enough away to prevent the problem

She should have admitted fault

Her mom should have contacted you immediately

 

In an ideal world, mom and daughter would step up and help pay. In reality, I wouldn't do much more than mention the cost and hope they would help paying part of the damages. It is a mirror and was obviously an accident, so I wouldn't be too worried about it.

 

Oh, and for the record, I don't think you should ask her to pay 100% of the damages. You are the driver and are therefore the only one capable of preventing problems like this in the first place. - Not throwing tomatoes, just my opinion. Accidents happen.

[unsinkable]

In what manner did the kid try to brush it off?

 

Did she deny doing it? Or deny the damage? Or acknowlegde she did it and act like it was no big deal?

[plansrme]

In what manner did the kid try to brush it off?

 

Did she deny doing it? Or deny the damage? Or acknowlegde she did it and act like it was no big deal?

 

She said she did not break anything when I clearly heard the sound of breaking plastic.

 

For those who think I parked too close, there is not a parking spot in this city that would keep this from being a possibility.

[Pamela H in Texas]

As the parent, I would pay the whole thing (or your insurance deductible or whatever). My teen would be working that off (assuming she didn't have the money). And we'd have a discussion and practice session in regards to opening car doors.

 

Like you said, rarely are we going to park our vehicles in a way that we wouldn't bash another car if we swung the door open wildly. Doing so in a manner that left real damage suggests neglect on her part. She's a child, but she's 14, not 3 (and for that matter, my kids know they don't open the door without permission).

 

I really think all people should pay more attention to what they are doing. I drive a 12 passenger van. Is it really too much to ask people to park in the middle or even right side of their parking space, especially if there is easily room, so I can open my doors to put my kids in and out (especially the baby)? But people just park and don't pay any attention. Where I am always trying to be ultra-aware of what would be easier, kinder, helpful for other people. I am trying to teach my children the same. Seriously, they already seem to have more sense of such things than most adults.

 

But mostly, "accidents happen" and the people who do them "fix" them. Yes, it is her mom's house, but at 14, if she is dancing around the kitchen and knocks over a glass, she should clean it up, not her mom. Same with this. She is 14, has had plenty of opportunity to learn she isn't the only one on earth and if she has an accident, needs to deal with the consequence.

 

ETA: As the driver, I would assume that most people aren't like me (as that is my experience) and eat it. I would also be discussing it with the children in the carpool, reminding them, especially the one, to be careful getting in/out.

[Pegasus]

IMHO, you are fully responsible here, legally and morally, as you were the adult present and in supervision. I'd pay it and not say a word to the child's parents.

[RoughCollie]

The incident was an accident, given the child's age and the circumstances. Since the child is a minor, that makes paying for it her parents' responsibility. The child may not have heard the sound of breaking plastic ... sometimes teens are in their own little world. It's possible, of course, that she heard it and she doesn't want to get into trouble for being careless. Name of the game with humans sometimes; we can all be careless and we can all be afraid to own up to our mistakes. That, however, does not absolve her parents of their responsibility.

 

Whether you parked too close is not the issue. After all, when two cars are parked to close to one another, it could be either driver's fault, or even the fault of parking lots made with spaces comfortable only for small cars in order to cram in more vehicles. When a car is parked too close for a passenger to get into the adjacent vehicle, the passenger is responsible for noticing that and the driver is responsible for backing out the car so the passenger can get in. Note that the first responsibility lies with the person who has the problem. Here, that is the minor child, so again, her parents are responsible. We aren't talking about a little kid here.

[clarkacademy]

It is the childs family who should be responsible. I don't care what adult is present a child should know how to behave and not destroy others property. If your kid does something take responsibility and stop shoving it on the adult. She is 14 not 4. The fact that she just tried to shrug it off would mean no more being in my car. I don't deal with children who have no respect for others property.

[MyThreeSons]

For those who think I parked too close, there is not a parking spot in this city that would keep this from being a possibility.

 

Same here, unless you park in the spot at the very end of the row.

 

FWIW, many years ago, my then 4yo son decided to go out through the back door of our big van. It was one of those doors that hinges on the side. As he swung that door opened, the bottom corner scraped a nice wide arc across the hood of the car parked behind us. YIKES! It was awful.

 

We were new to the church, and had no idea to whom the car belonged. We went inside and asked around, found the owner, and exchanged information with her.She was a visitor, and very gracious. We asked that she get estimates and we would take care of it, preferably without going through our insurance company. When she got home, her husband was irate that she hadn't called police to file a report. He was so unreasonable, my dh decided he wasn't going to deal with the guy, and we turned it over to our insurance company.

 

It turns out that it was covered as a comprehensive claim, there was no deductible, and our rates did not go up.

[poppy]

50/50. OP was not a taxi driver, she was the supervising adult -- the proxy parent. She does bear some responsibility for the child's behavior.

[Orthodox6]

I'm the first here to note that filing a claim with insurance often has negative repercussions for the policy holder. We have disregarded damage wreaked upon our car sometimes for this reason.

 

I would share the photographs with the other parents because they have a "teaching moment" for their own daughter. If the girl is a careless type -- and I don't know what her temperament is -- she easily could do the same thing, using her parents' car.

 

If I were the other parents, I would offer to pay the cost of repair.

 

If I were the owner of the damaged car, I would ignore the accident as inconsequential, and a normal hazard of parking in an overcrowded city. (This because you say that the mirror frame was only cracked. You did not say that the mirror had fallen off the car, or was in danger of so doing.)

[Mommyof4ks]

I think the other parent should pay and have the child work it off. The girls is 14! Next year she will be able to get her learner's permit, and any damage she does will be her fault. She needs to learn now why being careful is important. Also, I would treat her the age she is acting and make her wait for me to open the door for her so this would not happen again on my watch. My kids think I do not let them sit up front in my van for safety reasons, the truth is that I do not want to deal with this. ;)

[MyThreeSons]

Please post when you hear from the other car's owner, and what the parents of the girl have to say.

 

As others have said, I certainly wouldn't demand that they pay anything, but I would bring it to their attention. I would hope that they would see themselves as responsible, but i sure wouldn't count on it. I'm almost certain that legally, you are responsible.

[Samiam]

OP said there is not a parking spot in the city that would prevent this from happening. That says it all. It could happen to anybody. It was an accident. What would you expect if it was your own child in the car? You'd pay for it. You'd file with insurance. And that is what you should do now. When you carpool, you take on the responsibility of the child as if they were your own , while they are with you. It was an accident, and according to your own words, not completely unavoidable by the nature of the space. You pay. I suppose the other parent can offer, but I don't see it as they have to, required to, responsible for. If a child spilled something in your car, would you ask the parents to pay for the carpet cleaning? I'd hope not. I'd hope you chalk it up to life with children....silly things happen that you'd don't think are possible.

[joannqn]

I think the child's parents should pay. If they don't, I'd drop out of the car pool, explaining that the cost is too great.

[Cera]

This is why I don't carpool unless I know the other families VERY well. I would certainly pay if my 14 year old did it because she is ultimately my responsibiity (and then she would work off the cost because she should know better by that age). However, I doubt you have any recourse if the other parent doesn't offer to pay . I would definitely dissolve the carpool if that happened.

[Rebel Yell]

I admit that this is my thought as well. But I am interested to see if this is the majority view. Assuming they do not offer $$ if/when I hear from the other car's owner, I am wondering whether to dissolve the carpool.

 

 

I do occasionally carpool, and Diamond is usually the driver for her group of friends. If a similar thing happened to us, we would have to pay all $500 out-of-pocket, due to high deductables. I would let that be known to the parents of the passengers, and also that we cannot afford to take the chance that it will happen again in the future. If everyone pitches in for the deductible/repairs- great! On with the carpool! If not, then we'll all have to drive separately. Pain in the butt, but I can't afford to take chances on other people's kids costing me much more than an extra bag of potato chips or serving of spaghetti at dinner, KWIM?

 

Hoping for an update from the OP!

[MomtoCandJ]

Just about all the damage done to my car is done by negligent people hitting it :( I will claim damage to the hood since I did hit the deer :). We only claimed on insurance once when my passenger mirror was dangling by the wires (truck backed into my car at a yard sale, you could see the tire marks on the passenger door) and ripped off passenger door handles. We had full coverage on the car at that time and had for about a year. The others haven't been that bad, dents, scratches and the like so now we don't worry about it.

[Dandelion]

IMO the 14 year old's parents should pay. She is old enough to pay attention to how much room she has when opening the door.

 

I would bring it to the parents' attention (with pictures) and just ask them "How would you like to handle this?" Hopefully they will agree to take care of it. As others have said, they may not see this the same way and may not offer to pay. In that case, I wouldn't make a big deal out of it, but I might reconsider whether the carpool is something I want to be involved in.

[City Mouse]

I would not expect the family of the child to pay unless it was malicious and the kid was trying to damage the other car, but I don't participate in organized carpools just the occasional taking my kid and his friend somewhere.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I'd just pay it and move on, or file a claim on my insurance. It was an accident.

[MyThreeSons]

OP said there is not a parking spot in the city that would prevent this from happening. That says it all. It could happen to anybody.

 

Yes, it could happen to any negligent person. The point was that someone said the OP was negligent simply by parking close enough to the other vehicle.

 

The door opener was negligent. The driver was not. Unfortunately, the driver is probably legally responsible, if the other car's owner decides to pursue this.

 

BTW, I don't think anyone else has mentioned it yet, but I applaud the OP for leaving a note. So many people wouldn't have done that.

[Jan in SC]

How much is the damage to your car? If she hit the mirror hard enough to break it, you must have a pretty big dent in your door. I would call the insurance company and ask what would be covered and if it would effect your premiums. It might not, and then I would let it go. I would be frustrated and angry if it happened, but accidents are just accidents. I wouldn't try to force them to pay.

[EKS]

If it were me, I would assume the incident was my responsibility, I would pay for the damage, and I wouldn't say anything to the parent of the 14yo.

[catz]

As the responsible adult taking on the supervision and safety of the kids in the carpool, I think this accident falls under your "watch" and, therefore, you are responsible for the payment. Sure...it would be nice if the other parent of the 14-year old child might offer to pay as a gesture, but I, personally, would feel obligated to pay the entire cost of the accident (involving my car with children I was responsible for - regardless if the accident was caused by a typical not thinking in the moment 14 year old or a even five year old who let the door get away from them) completely.

 

Myra

 

:iagree: You parked close enough that this was an issue. I understand parking spots are narrow - I live in a city too. But if that's an issue, I ask my kids to get in a door on the other side and climb over, or I specifically tell them to watch their door, or I even hold it for them. I am hyper aware of this issue almost every day. I could see a kid that was new to a vehicle not knowing how wide or fast it will swing. I have an almost 13 year old, and he's kind of awkward and doesn't always make this kind of estimate well. I *might* tell the other parent depending on the relationship, but I'd expect nothing. If you thought this kid was really a problem and malicious, stop carpooling with them. Accidents happen.

 

If my kid did this, I would probably offer to make amends. ETA - I'd make amends, but I'd be irritated that the driver wasn't more aware of the parking/door situation to prevent the accident.

[plansrme]

OP here. The parent knows and has not said anything to me. I did not tell her, as I am waiting at least through today to see if the other car's owner calls. But it is clear that she knows. I would absolutely offer, insist upon, paying if this were my kid. It has been helpful to see how many feel differently. It is kind of shocking actually, but helpful.

 

 

[Joker]

I, honestly, don't think I would have even told the girl's parents. It was an accident. Perhaps the OP's vehicle is larger than her own or what she's used to, and so she just misjudged the distance in opening the door. Maybe what the OP doesn't feel is too close is not what the other girl is used to. I, as an adult, have a few times misjudged or not been thinking and banged another door. Other adults have done the same to our car (once it was my own FIL).

[dirty ethel rackham]

Is it the mirror housing that cracked or another part of the car? If it was the mirror housing, was it an ordinary side view mirror or a fancy one with turn signal lights on it. If it is a regular mirror, $500 is way too high an estimate to get it fixed. Ds damaged our mirror on our van (demolished it) when backing out of the garage and it would have cost $200 to have the dealer do it (mostly labor). We were able to order the replacement mirror and housing online for $50 and ds watched a few YouTube videos and installed it himself (and he is not particularly handy.) If this was the case, I would eat the cost. If it was a more expensive mirror (which I doubt would be on a Hundai), I would inform the other parent after I heard from the person who's car was hit.

 

Oh, and, in the future with this car pool, I would remind everyone before parking to watch their doors.

[Dandelion]

If this were to go to court, my understanding is that the court would look at whether the OP exercised "reasonable care" in this situation in order to determine liability. As the adult in charge of supervising the 14 year old, OP has a certain measure of responsibility and liability for the teen's actions. So the question becomes: did the accident happen because the OP failed to provide reasonable care and supervision, or because the teen was negligent? Or was it a combination of both? Based on the facts shared by the OP, it sounds to me like she exercised reasonable care and that this accident was primarily due to the teen's negligence (in which case her parents could be held legally liable for the damage she caused, even though she was under the OP's care at the time).

 

I'm not suggesting this go to court at all (wouldn't make sense, given the relatively small amount of damage involved). Just throwing it out there for the purpose of answering the OP's question regarding liability.

[Tammyla]

I've always been under the impression that the driver is responsible for the car - even things the passengers do.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I definitely think that it is the responsibility of the girl's parents. Sure it was an accident - by the 14 year old girl. I pay for all accidents done by my children.

[unsinkable]

 

 

Yes, it could happen to any negligent person. The point was that someone said the OP was negligent simply by parking close enough to the other vehicle.

 

The door opener was negligent. The driver was not. Unfortunately, the driver is probably legally responsible, if the other car's owner decides to pursue this.

 

BTW, i don't think anyone else has mentioned it yet, but I applaud the OP for leaving a note. So many people wouldn't have done that.

 

I applaud plansrme, too.

 

Maybe the owner of the other car will call and say don't worry about it.

 

Or what if the other owner calls and said it was already broken!? I bet a ton of cars would have hit the mirror at the same height.

[Halftime Hope]

I am a bit bothered by the question, "Morally, not legally, who should pay?" I think there's enough gray area here that presuming that there is ut one right moral choice is pretty legalistic, and I'm a gal that fights my own tendencies to see things as black or white. OP, this situation has all kinds of gray in it.

 

Assume I'm the parent of the boisterous pre-teen:

 

If the OP incurs an expense for fixing her car, I would offer to pay for that, although we choose to let small dings on our cars go unrepaired; it's part of life in the city with five very busy cars in the family. (Side note: if I am unable to pay for the car repair, I'd tell her so and pay it off over time.)

 

If her auto insurance goes up due to the accident, how much of that should I be liable for? 6 months of additional premiums? 3 years? (That's how long our insurance charges an additional premium when there have been multiple claims.) What if it takes several claims to trigger an increase, and this is the one that pushes her over the top? Do I pay anyway and consider it "one of those things"? Do I want to ask her all these questions? NO!

 

And yet that's what it would take--a bit of a pharisaical approach--to find out exactly what I "morally" owed.

 

I think it would be much more satisfying to the OP if I expressed my sorrow for the situation, promised to instruct my child and asked OP to be sure to confidentially let me know how things were going, and offered to pay the cost of her repair (if less than deductible) or her deductible, and just let the possible increase in insurance go, unless she brought it up.

 

In summary, if I were the child's parent, I'd consider it my obligation to pay something.

If I were the OP, I'd hope that the other parent did offer to pitch in, but I'd expect that it was all going to be on me, and I'd choose to have a heart attitude of peace about it--the cost of living life, as it were--if the other parent didn't offer. However, I'd watch that child carefully, see if she was teachable, and if not, then move on.

 

 

 

 

[Halftime Hope]

OP here. The parent knows and has not said anything to me. I did not tell her, as I am waiting at least through today to see if the other car's owner calls. But it is clear that she knows. I would absolutely offer, insist upon, paying if this were my kid. It has been helpful to see how many feel differently. It is kind of shocking actually, but helpful.

 

 

Interesting. I would expect a child, even a 14 yo, to *not* tell their parents. I've tried very diligently to instruct my kids that I want to hear everything from them first, but I have no idea how well it's working. : )

 

 

[soufflegirl]

I had originally read this as the girl was in the car and swung the door open too hard. I was going to give her the benefit of the doubt that from her vantage point the car looked further away than it was or the door swung faster than she was expecting. But she was outside (presumably between) the two cars and still managed to crack a mirror casing? If that was my kid, I would pay up.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't think the parent of the other teen needs to pay for any insurance costs. But they definitely should pay for the damage to the other person's car and the OP's car. I do see it as pretty black and white.